The Draymond Green w/Baron Davis - Shai Gilgeous-Alexander Takeover & Pacers NBA Finals Collapse w/ guest Mo Williams

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Episode: Draymond Green w/ Baron Davis - Shai Gilgeous-Alexander Takeover & Pacers NBA Finals Collapse

Release Date: June 14, 2025

In this compelling episode of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd," hosted by iHeartPodcasts and The Volume, Draymond Green engages in an in-depth conversation with guest Mo Williams, alongside co-host Zoe Saldana. The discussion delves into the intricacies of the recent NBA Finals, focusing on the Pacers' unexpected collapse, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander's rising influence, and broader topics affecting both professional and collegiate sports.

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1. Introduction and Personal Connections

Timestamp: [02:13 – 04:08]

Zoe Saldana kicks off the episode by introducing Mo Williams, highlighting his NBA championship experience and longstanding friendship with Draymond Green. Draymond expresses heartfelt gratitude towards Mo, reminiscing about their shared experiences during "Grind Week" at Michigan State:

Draymond Green [04:08]: "I'm forever grateful for your friendship. Always have, always will be proud of you, man."

2. Analyzing the NBA Finals Collapse

Timestamp: [04:51 – 10:37]

The conversation shifts to the recent NBA Finals matchup between Draymond's team (likely the Oklahoma City Thunder) and the Indiana Pacers. Draymond critiques Indiana's pacing and defensive strategies, emphasizing how their approach disadvantaged Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (Shai):

Draymond Green [08:06]: "Indiana has an unbelievable pace that OKC was trying to match, but it doesn't benefit Shai. He needs flow more than a specific pace."

Zoe draws parallels between the series and a boxing match, illustrating the sudden shifts in momentum:

Zoe Saldana [07:55]: "It looked like a boxing match. Earl caught Bud with his best shot, and Bud pressed forward because he knew he could walk through it."

3. Coaching Decisions and Tactical Adjustments

Timestamp: [14:31 – 21:01]

Draymond delves into coaching strategies, particularly criticizing Rick Carlisle's adjustments during critical moments of the series:

Draymond Green [13:42]: "They made every mistake possible to get a game away 1,000%."

Zoe echoes these sentiments, pointing out missed opportunities for strategic timeouts and lineup changes:

Zoe Saldana [10:35]: "They should have called a timeout or made adjustments when leading by seven points with nine minutes left."

4. Financial Challenges Faced by HBCUs in Collegiate Sports

Timestamp: [52:14 – 74:24]

The discussion broadens to address the financial struggles of Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs), with a focus on Jackson State. Draymond emphasizes the necessity of fundraising to support athletic programs:

Draymond Green [65:03]: "At Jackson State, we have to fund our own budget by playing high-profile non-conference games, which is financially taxing but necessary for visibility and revenue."

Zoe adds by highlighting the disparities between major programs and smaller institutions, advocating for systemic changes:

Zoe Saldana [62:55]: "We need a system where smaller schools receive the support they need to compete on equal footing."

5. Impact of NIL and Transfer Rules on Smaller Programs

Timestamp: [69:13 – 75:20]

The conversation shifts to Name, Image, Likeness (NIL) regulations and transfer rules within NCAA sports. Draymond expresses concerns about the financial pressures these rules place on smaller programs:

Draymond Green [76:34]: "Some schools now have to give large sums by a certain date, which creates another issue rather than solving existing ones."

Zoe suggests potential solutions, such as implementing transfer fees to support smaller schools when players move to larger programs:

Zoe Saldana [75:20]: "Maybe there should be transfer fees that help support smaller schools when their players move to bigger programs."

6. Defining a Superstar in the NBA

Timestamp: [78:57 – 91:59]

Draymond and Zoe engage in a lively debate about the criteria that define a superstar in the NBA. Draymond emphasizes on-court performance and the ability to elevate an entire franchise:

Draymond Green [78:09]: "A superstar is someone who can galvanize a whole franchise, overcoming any opposition."

Zoe agrees, highlighting players like Kevin Durant and Allen Iverson for their consistent performance and cultural impact:

Zoe Saldana [89:52]: "Kevin Durant and Allen Iverson are superstars not just because of their skill, but also their influence on the game's culture."

They share anecdotes that underscore the traits distinguishing true superstars from merely marketable players.

7. Mo Williams' Transition from Player to Coach

Timestamp: [95:12 – 104:22]

Mo Williams shares his journey from being an NBA player to a coach at Jackson State. He discusses the challenges of funding, scheduling, and building a competitive program within an HBCU:

Mo Williams [103:31]: "I want to build this program and provide opportunities for my players just as techniques were shared with me by legends like Mo Williams."

Draymond and Zoe express admiration for Mo's dedication to mentoring young athletes and improving the infrastructure of HBCUs, emphasizing the importance of giving back.

8. Closing Remarks and Future Outlook

Timestamp: [104:23 – 106:56]

Zoe Saldana wraps up the episode by summarizing the key takeaways, emphasizing mentorship and financial support in sports leadership. Draymond and Mo reiterate their commitment to advancing athletic programs and supporting young athletes through education and coaching.

Draymond Green [104:50]: "I love what I do. I love where I'm at. I want to build this thing and I want to be able to do that for my city."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Draymond Green [08:06]: "Indiana has an unbelievable pace that OKC was trying to match, but it doesn't benefit Shai. He needs flow more than a specific pace."

• Zoe Saldana [07:55]: "It looked like a boxing match. Earl caught Bud with his best shot, and Bud pressed forward because he knew he could walk through it."

• Draymond Green [13:42]: "They made every mistake possible to get a game away 1,000%."

• Draymond Green [65:03]: "At Jackson State, we have to fund our own budget by playing high-profile non-conference games, which is financially taxing but necessary for visibility and revenue."

• Zoe Saldana [62:55]: "We need a system where smaller schools receive the support they need to compete on equal footing."

• Draymond Green [78:09]: "A superstar is someone who can galvanize a whole franchise, overcoming any opposition."

• Draymond Green [104:50]: "I love what I do. I love where I'm at. I want to build this thing and I want to be able to do that for my city."

---

This summary encapsulates the essence of the podcast episode, highlighting the critical analysis of the NBA Finals, the financial struggles of HBCUs in collegiate sports, the impact of NIL and transfer rules, and a nuanced discussion on what constitutes a superstar in the NBA. Notable quotes are included with precise timestamps to provide listeners with key insights and memorable moments from the conversation.

Transcript

[Draymond Green]

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[Baron Davis]

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[Draymond Green]

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[Zoe Saldana]

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[Dan Flores]

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[Zoe Saldana]

You're crying.

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[Zoe Saldana]

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green show with Baron Davis. Big D is not here today, but we have a guest today. NBA champion. And so every year I do this. I won't necessarily say I do this, but we put it together at Michigan State, where we do grind week. And all the pros come back. We hoop, we work out with the guys, we kick it like the next generation of guys. The guys that's on the team now. We do this whole thing and I Actually got that whole idea, the whole premise. Forget the idea. The exact thing of what it is. I got it from our next guest when I was first second year in league, brought me down to Dallas. He didn't play in Dallas at the time, but brought me, lived in Dallas, brought me down to Dallas. Literally paid for flights, pay for hotels, showed us a great time. It's kind of took me under his wing and I've been forever grateful ever since. This next guest, now I will go on to say, unfortunately, this man beat me in the 2016 finals. But if we were going to lose to somebody in the 2016 finals, it's my guy and an OG in this. Been doing it for a long time. Wanted the grace to do it. None other. I'm happy to have this guest. None other. Mo Gotti, Mo Williams. What's happening, my brother?

[Draymond Green]

What's happening, man? I appreciate them kind words, man. I'm forever grateful for your friendship. Always have, always will be proud of you, man. I'm proud of you. I feel like an og. Cause you a og. OG now you came in, you know, it's all. It's all love.

[Zoe Saldana]

Absolutely, bro. I still, like. Like I just said, I. I go down to Michigan State and, you know, Travis used to come down with me and like, we created Grind Week at Michigan State. Like, people don't know, like, Grind Week, that, like, that belonged to Mo Williams. Like, you taught me that. And like, bringing us down there to work out, to hoop, it was love. Over to your crib, barbecuing. I had never seen a crib like that. Like, outside of Joe Dumars crib, I had never seen a crib like that. And so I just want you to know, man, I'm forever grateful. I hope. I hope you can appreciate that I took your idea and continue to move.

[Draymond Green]

It forward because no doubt about it.

[Zoe Saldana]

Man, that was huge for me in my career.

[Draymond Green]

No doubt about it, man. I appreciate it, man. It was some good times. We had some good. We had some good work. And. And that's the thing about it, man. People don't know. It wasn't. We weren't just hanging out, man. We were working. We were working. We was grinding, man. We was getting better, you know, we was getting back in shape. You know, it was one of them. That's what Grind Week was about. It was about that moment where we. We needed to get back to work. So we came in, pushed each other, working out all day, and then we hung out at night. You know, we fellowshiped, man.

[Zoe Saldana]

It was all love it was perfect, bro. I appreciate it. I can't thank you enough. But obviously, as we know, game four of the finals just ended. He tied it up. Two, two.

[Draymond Green]

I got okc. You can ask everybody around me. Drake, I had OKC from day one. From day one, I had them. I said, listen, man, that ball was tough. I figured before this series started that it wouldn't go more than five. But Indiana snuck. That. Snuck. Game one. They didn't supposed to win game one.

[Zoe Saldana]

No chance. Okay? They just supposed to win and they lost it.

[Draymond Green]

Exactly. You know, and then they. They came and, you know, took care of business game. So then game three, Indiana came and took the. They gave him confidence. Yes, they gave him confidence. But this game right here, Dre, this. This. This was. This was the game. And Indiana tricked this one all the way off.

[Zoe Saldana]

They did.

[Draymond Green]

All the way off.

[Zoe Saldana]

They did. You know, it was crazy. I saw. I put on. I. I put on my threads account at one point during the game. Like, this was during the third quarter, actually. OKC doesn't look like a team that believe. Like, they did not believe they could win. When I was watching, what it looked like to me was you watching a boxing match. We watching whoever you call it, Bud Crawford versus, why am I drawing a blank right now? Versus Earl Spence. When I went to that fight and I was there live in person, when they went into that fight, in the first couple rounds or the first round, it looked like Bud trying to figure it out, didn't really know what to expect. And obviously, we know Earl got crazy. Power, like, Earl has lived on, like his power is crazy. And you could see that in the fight. And then all of a sudden, Earl caught Bud with his best shot, and Bud was like this. And from that point on, Bud pressed forward because he knew you already caught me with the best shot you can catch me with. And it didn't even daze me. It didn't stun. Like, it didn't stun me. So for the rest of the fight, I can just press forward, because even if you catch me with your best shot again, I can just walk through it.

[Draymond Green]

It ain't gonna fall back. Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

And for the first three quarters of that matchup, OKC looked like that, where Indiana just kind of doing whatever they wanted to do when they want it was.

[Draymond Green]

It's the pace, Drake. It's the pace. I'm telling you. Indiana have a unbelievable pace that OKC was trying to play at that same pace. They can't play that like that because it doesn't benefit Shay. He Needs to play at his pace. It ain't slow. It ain't fast. It's his pace. He needed. He need to have a flow more than a pace. It just need to have a flow so he can get it, get in his spots, slow it down, and get to his elbows. But Indiana get that out so quick. And he. They had gone getting it up, up the court. Now, the other thing, okc, they in a lot of ISO situation now. Indiana, you watch Indiana, they got a lot of action. There's a lot of movement. They creating a lot of movement. Okay. See, defense is really good. When Indiana gets stagnant and they able to load up, they're able to get in them gaps. They ain't able to get them gaps when they got all that movement and getting the ball up fast. But what happened was late in the fourth quarter, when every basketball game in America slowed down, it benefits Shayla. Now. It goes into that guy. That guy, and that's when that guy came to work. So long as Indiana can keep that pace up, they. They had the advantage. But when the game slow down, they in trouble.

[Zoe Saldana]

Absolutely. By the way, I'm. I'm in Cabo. So for y' all, that's like, yo, he's sweating, or he look crazy. The sun's crazy, and I am sweating. I've been watching games outside, having me a couple drinks.

[Draymond Green]

You talk about it. You hot and outside. You'd be inside in the air conditioner, man.

[Zoe Saldana]

No, no, I watched the game outside, man, at the bar. You gotta watch the game over here at the bar more. You gotta come out, check it out, man.

[Draymond Green]

You go down here, I'm gonna come out there now. I'm gonna come out there, get a little. Get a little. Get some dates and see what's going on.

[Zoe Saldana]

Just telling you, come on down here, check it out. It's hot, but it's a good time, man. So I watched at the bar, you know, so when I come in here sweating, I. I heard you some of y' all saying crazy things. Last episode like, yo, why is he sweating? So I'm telling y' all while I'm sweating, but I actually watched the game with pg. Me and me and PG was down there watching the game, and when it was 87 to 80 or 89 to 80, one of those schools, 89, 82. And I said, either take the lead to 15 or it's going to zero.

[Draymond Green]

Really? What.

[Zoe Saldana]

What.

[Draymond Green]

What you saw. What you saw that made you feel.

[Zoe Saldana]

Like that both teams was just hanging around like I had.

[Draymond Green]

It was A. It was a posture. Yeah, they were gone.

[Zoe Saldana]

Exactly. And I. And what. So what I saw was Indiana really dominating them. They got them mentally. They got them physically dominating. But you look up, you up seven at the end of the third. Now you should be up 13 at the end of the third, but let a couple plays here and there get away. You let the J Dub get to join at the end of the quarter, right? Like, those things change a game at this level. Regular season, even first round of the playoffs, you can get away with those things. But this is the NBA Finals and those types of things changes. So right now, y' all are really dominating this game, but you only up seven points. And I think at that time, shay got like 20 points. Like 15, 20 points or something like that. You have to push that lead at that time. Obie Toppins, the one hitting the threes, right? Like Obie Toppins hitting the shots. It ain't even Pascal or Tyrese hitting the shot. So you got your other guys hitting the shots at that time. You got to extend the lead at that time. And they. And so for me, when you. If you leave the game, and while I'm watching that, and why I said that, if you lead a game within striking distance like that, then what it's going to come down to at the.

[Draymond Green]

End is who got the game slow down.

[Zoe Saldana]

You know what I'm saying? Who got the best score. And we obviously all know who got the best score in this series. And they allow them to let it become their game. If you push it to 13, push it to 15, they can't slow the game down.

[Draymond Green]

Exactly.

[Zoe Saldana]

Gotta go, go, go. And will tell you I need to go because we ain't got that much time. We down 13, we down 15. It's the fourth quarter, I gotta go. We can't slow.

[Draymond Green]

You're absolutely right.

[Zoe Saldana]

If we down seven with nine minutes to go, you like, there's plenty of time left. One possession at a time.

[Draymond Green]

Yes, sir. Let me get this thing at this elbow, top of the key. Space it out. Let me get to the line. Get to this free throw line jumper. I'm going to cash this all day long. And the game slowed, man, the last four to five minutes and it just slowed down. They just run an action. Getting him into his ISO, getting him into his face. They stayed home, he went to work. That was the difference down the stretch. But Indiana, you think about the little stuff that they messed up on. The free throws, obviously. Two bonehead ass files.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Draymond Green]

Those things being in the finals, you understand every Every single possession matters. And I ain't just saying every single possession matters. Like some of them you ain't got to worry about. I'm talking about every single possession, every single substitution, every single mistake that you make, how you make it, it means something to the bottom line and down the stretch. They made every mistake possible to get a game away 1,000%.

[Zoe Saldana]

I, I, I agree with that wholeheartedly. You look at, there's so I thought for majority of the game and majority of the series, to be honest, Rick Carlisle has our coach, Mark Dagno, I think, without a doubt out coached him, no questions asked. Like when you look at, there were certain points in that game where J Dub come down. I think it was like seven and a half minutes left. And Chet Chet lead the game limping. J Dub comes down. And this actually started with J Dub in the third quarter. Three minutes to go in the third quarter. Three and a half minutes to go in third quarter. Take tough shots, right, like to the.

[Draymond Green]

Free throw line, behind the back, then that one.

[Zoe Saldana]

No, but, but at that point they were, it was like a 10 point game and they couldn't get good shots at that point. And that was a time where you saw Mark Dagno needed to take a, like, not take a time out because it is what it is, but you need to call something. You know what I'm saying?

[Draymond Green]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

You don't have your best player on the floor. You need to call something. And they had like three, four possessions in a row. And that's where Indiana needed to put the game away.

[Draymond Green]

And they didn't capitalize.

[Zoe Saldana]

They did not put the game away. So in turn, it ended up like being bad shot for bad shot, bad shot for bad shot. And the leagues just kind of stayed.

[Draymond Green]

And Nemhard missed a big shot, too.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yes, he did. Yes.

[Draymond Green]

That was a huge shot. That was a huge shot. Yep, he did.

[Zoe Saldana]

You know, so I'm watching this and it's inevitable what's about to happen. But I'm gonna tell you something that I thought down the stretch that I noticed. And if I'm, if I'm the Patriots, I'm going to watch this film. And this is what I noticed. A, they took Shea off the ball. We all know that. That's clear. As they took Shea off the ball, they got J Dub handling the ball more. But down the stretch, what did they go to? They went to a Shay Jake, pick and roll switch. Now you got Neesmith on Shai as opposed to Nimhard on Shay. And they kept switching it and he Just threw it to Shay and now Shay got Neesmith on him. And if you watch the beginning, for anyone who watched the beginning of this series, Shay got what he wanted on N. Smith. I think it's a very good defender. For instance, he guarded Jalen Brunson better than anybody. But it's matchup to matchup when it comes to this point in the playoffs. The guy who guards one guy the best may not be the same guy to guard that guy the best in the next series. And so what we've seen is Nim Hard is the guy to guard Shay in this series. Every possession down the stretch, they went to the 1, 2, pick and roll, get the switch. Shay got Nimhard, Shay got knif on him now. And Shay goes to work and gets to all the buckets that he was getting to. And so as a, as a guard, defender, as, as just as a guard, as a coach, someone with pride, a champion, at what point does the player Nimhard just say, oh, I see they trying to get that switch.

[Draymond Green]

I ain't switching.

[Zoe Saldana]

I'mma make him. If J Dub want to shoot a pick and pop three. Yeah, different three than the catch and shoot three. He ain't used to shooting pick and pop three. Like at what point do we expect the player to be like, yeah, I'm, I'm not switching, I'm getting through this. It is what it is. Because I think down the stretch that's what cost them the game.

[Draymond Green]

And you know what's crazy? And we go back to lil stuff. Everything losing all the little loses game. Look at game three go look at their defensive possession. They wasn't switching nothing. They weren't switching nothing. Game three, they didn't switch nothing. They got through everything and they got beat at times because of that. They was able to get. That's why they, it was such a high scoring first half because they were staying with their matchup, getting through everything. Turner was in that short lived drop. Then let's short drop. I call it short drop. He right there on that short drop and he trying to stun a little bit, get back in front if you a little bit late. That's when they was turning that corner and they was reading it. But they stuck with it. They stuck with it. Game three. Yep. Because it kept the pace going, it kept OKC downhill. Make a miss, we out anyway. So the game is going to be back and forth. But tonight they was in a lot of switches when they went in. Switches, game three.

[Zoe Saldana]

Exactly. And I think OKC took full advantage of that like so now when I'm going ahead in this series, I'm saying no matter how much we get hurt, and not. Not only am I saying that, but also I'm matching Nimhar's minutes with Shay. The only time you get a break is when he come off the floor. And the rest of the game, you getting through every screen. You're fighting through everything. We get into them because again, to your point, Mo, even if Shay turned the corner and he got a little advantage, but Nemhard is fighting through it. If he don't have a crazy advantage, he gonna stop. Because at his pace, you know, he want to get it at. And at his pace, Nimhard has shown that he can guard him at his pace.

[Draymond Green]

He confident. He know him.

[Zoe Saldana]

Absolutely. They play on the Canadian national team. He, you know, they playing ones when they in camp.

[Draymond Green]

You know, all these things. And Shay respect him.

[Zoe Saldana]

Absolutely. He not.

[Draymond Green]

That's the problem. Shay got too much respect for him.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yes. Yeah. So. So as a scorer, say Nim Hard don't. I don't do this. This ain't my career. This is your career. N hard don't switch it. What happens next if you. Shay, you've been in that position, he.

[Draymond Green]

Got to get downhill. He get. And he got. He got to get down here and he got to get it advantage every single time. And he got to be ready to step because at some point he got to fight through it. That may be over and under. If he under, you gotta have that trigger ready. If you knock a couple screens down when you got space, I mean, shots down behind the screen where you got space. Now he getting over the top every time and ain't switching. Now you got him on your hip. Now you got an advantage. Now you. Now you getting to the line more now. Now he didn't start getting to the line to down the stretch when they were trying to keep the fucking game close. Yeah. You get what I'm saying? So that's the only time he started getting to the line. But throughout the. Throughout the game, he wasn't getting to the line like that because he wasn't really getting them on the hip. Everything was kind of getting to the elbow, kind of getting his feet set, trying to get some separation, trying to get that pull up off. And if I'm Indiana, I'm make. I'm forcing them into that two, that mid range pull up at the free throw line because he willing to get there if you get to him every time.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Draymond Green]

You know, if he make it, he make it. He don't. He don't. It's still a two and you can get it out real quick and go. Now he ain't getting to the line. So he get to that line and you start letting him get an angle and he started to get an angle on you and able to get them, get them long, stretchy layups and them floaters. And now when he get those, oh yeah, he finna knock a couple threes down. And then if he get that three level going, you want to keep him at two levels and you want majority of them to be at the second level. And I know they trying to do that, but they really just playing off how he, how he, how he playing and how the defense said wherever angle he coming from. But are they just following them into that mid range? He gonna accept that every time.

[Zoe Saldana]

When, when you, when you look at, when you look at.

[Mo Williams]

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[Baron Davis]

By the campaign for Tobacco Free Kids Action Fund.

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I'll correct my kids now and then.

[Dan Flores]

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Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves.

[Unknown]

So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.

[Dan Flores]

Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Unknown]

You say you'd never give in to a meltdown and never fill your feed with kid photos. You say you'd never put pacifier in your mouth to clean it and never let them run wild through the grocery store. So when you say you'd never let them get into a car without you there. No, it can happen. One in four hot car deaths happen when a kid gets into an unlocked car and can't get out. Never happens before you leave the car. Always stop. Look Lock Brought to you by NHTSA.

[Zoe Saldana]

And the AD Council what's happening with the lineups? Right? You got a team that won 68 games.

[Draymond Green]

Yeah, I ain't understand no one, Dre.

[Zoe Saldana]

They came into the NBA finals and I can't. I can't. I still can't believe that, man.

[Draymond Green]

You know what it is, man? You know, that's when a coach just, you know, they just cocky. You know, they just, you know, feel like they, you know, don't you being. I am him. You know, it's just that's that case because if you. We can't understand why we can sit there and why would we do that? I can see Indiana doing that as they should.

[Zoe Saldana]

You won 68 games. We know what this looked like and.

[Draymond Green]

We as players and obviously I'm a coach now. I would never adjust to the team. And the minute I see when I go into the locker room and we get our starters to come in from the pole team 10 minutes before the game and I get on that board, coach, bring it in. All right, who they got starting? Is it who we think? Then they come back and say, no, coach, they starting such and such. They trying to match up to us. I done won the game.

[Zoe Saldana]

Cause that's what we do best.

[Draymond Green]

I done won the game. So by doing that now you get more cocky. You felt like, well, that wasn't the reason we lost the game. Run it back, you know, did it again. Then obviously after game three, you want to switch it back, you know, so I don't know, man. You know, so you know, what's your thoughts on that?

[Zoe Saldana]

I thought, number one, you never show your hand before. You need to show your hand.

[Draymond Green]

So that should have been an adjustment.

[Zoe Saldana]

That's an adjustment. When you going into the series, we're going with what has worked for us this whole time. If we get in game one, I'm not sure I'm adjusting to game one, but if it's so bad and it's glaringly noticeable, then yes, I'll make the adjustment. But for instance, okc, like, they should have won game one.

[Draymond Green]

They won game one. They just tricked it off.

[Zoe Saldana]

But when I take a step back and I'm going into these series, you never. They showed their adjustment before the series started.

[Draymond Green]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

And when you've been in these situations and you know how this go. In 2000, in. In 2015, when we won our first championship, the deaf lineup was already born. We knew our small lineup was our best lineup. We didn't start the series with our def lineup start with Andre Iguodala in the star lineup. We started the series starting our lineup. We have been starting. We got the two one down, two one. They made the call. We starting Andre. We going with our deaf line up to start that right. That's our first time in the NBA Finals. That's also Steve Kerr's first time coaching the NBA Finals. It's also his first year ever as a coach. But Steve has played and won five championships. Seeing Greg Popovich, he's seen Phil Jackson make these adjustments when the adjustment need to be made, not starting a series. And so we're going into this series, we're playing with. All right, boom. That ain't working. This ain't boom. We got our adjustment. But to show your adjustment, like, there's no adjustment for OKC like the adjustments they're making now. Is like, all right, we want to get Shay off the ball a little bit more. Although I think that didn't work either. Like, if Indiana closed the game, when they should close the game and extend the lead how they should, that don't work either. Right. Like, the adjustment is usually a matchup or lineup. Yeah, they already took that away. So if, you know, they've made their adjustment, what can they do now? Like, all right, so, yes, they won Game 4, and OKC is the best team, so they should win the series, but.

[Draymond Green]

They should.

[Zoe Saldana]

But you've already made your trump. And then not only.

[Draymond Green]

But Dre, I don't think we giving. Well, I don't think we're giving Carlisle enough credit right now.

[Zoe Saldana]

Oh, no. Carlisle crushed it.

[Draymond Green]

I want him to say credit more so respect. You get what I'm saying? Just more so on, like. Like here, far as coaching.

[Zoe Saldana]

He.

[Draymond Green]

He's a. He's a. He's a legend.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yes, he is.

[Draymond Green]

You get what I mean? So when I. When I'm talking about okc, Indiana right now, talent wise, team wise, what they done from a season standpoint, absolutely. But now we're talking about adjustment on top of adjustment. You know, how we approaching the next game, how you even communicate with your team, getting them ready. When we talk about staff, putting all that together, not saying who's better, but what I'm talking about, who been doing it longer. You get what I'm saying? Just imagine dre at year three, Andrea, year 12, year 14, whatever. It's a different level of mindset. Even though Dre was good at year three.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yes.

[Draymond Green]

You get what I'm saying? So at the end of the day, I think that it's almost like, you know, you're gonna be all right, young fella.

[Zoe Saldana]

You.

[Draymond Green]

You. You should be back here soon. Or you may be back here another day, but, you know, let the grown folks handle this type shit. What's going on, how I feel, how he coaching? You know what I mean? So I just think Indiana, from that standpoint, has a chance, you know, but OKC, clearly the better team, 1,000%.

[Zoe Saldana]

And I've had. I know this thing is this because I've had a coach, and he's a very prominent coach in the NBA. I won't say his name because I ain't that type of guy. I ain't selling nobody.

[Draymond Green]

I got you.

[Zoe Saldana]

But what he did tell me is, and the way he said, the coaches who has won championships is like this little fraternity, and they don't want to see a new coach enter so Rick Carlisle is holding it down for all the coaches that has.

[Draymond Green]

Because they don't want him in there yet.

[Zoe Saldana]

Wagner enter the conversation. And I know this to be factual. It's a very prominent coach. He's a player. He might have won a championship as a player.

[Draymond Green]

Listen.

[Zoe Saldana]

Listen. In saying that though, and I think, I think Rick has out coached him.

[Draymond Green]

Yeah, for sure.

[Zoe Saldana]

You've out coached him. And y' all too, too. Do you think Rick made a mistake? Because down the stretch I think we had like three Howie Cross, cross, cross, cross, cross, step back, air ball, threes. Don French. Was Rick at fault for not making sure Pascal get the ball?

[Draymond Green]

Because absolutely.

[Zoe Saldana]

I think Pascal is the guy when you need to get a great look, Pascal's the guy to get you to look. Did he. Was he bad down the stretch and not Pascal got a touch?

[Draymond Green]

I think. I think so. You know, but I do think too, it's a. Is a kind of let your team play too because you got to think about they. They offense. You know it better than I do. It's just free flow. Like they ain't really geared. It's. Unless Pascal they giving it to them on that chopper wing area right there. I call it chopper wing in between the slot and the wing in that area right there. If he getting it there, where he able to maneuver top of the key in the trail position or right there in the mid block if you get him the ball in them three spots, get out the way, let him go to work, make sure we space him. But outside of that, it's space in the floor. We hid, we cutting off here. We in our open action, we in our rip action. It's a lot of movement and that's the base of the offense. So I think he's smart enough and don't give a damn enough to say I'm gonna let my team play. You know, if I have to go to that to, you know, them Dirk spots, I go to it if I have to. Meaning? Well, OKC going to those dirt spots before they have to run action, which they ain't run. They ain't running no action. Okay. See you just getting downhill, putting the ball in guys hands, you know, looking for some overhelp, kicking out, trying to make some threes and trying to get the spots. But Indiana more so. They, they relying on their action and their movement because if you stand still on OKC and try to go to work, you gonna have some trouble. And Indiana don't have enough guys that on the elite level that can just go get Buckets, you know, so outside of Pascal. Yeah. You know, so they got to rely on movement. Because if you, you know, if you let OKC just, just load up and get back and be in position, oh, you in trouble. That's why they getting it out. That's, that's why, that's why he had five steals last game. Because they don't care. We getting it out. We not letting y' all get back and setting up. We getting that ball down the court. We'll live with those steals. Cause we getting that ball out.1 second touched it out of there. We gone. And they getting that ball across half court at three seconds. Every single possession. Every single. And the more they do that, the more often they get that ball across half court in three seconds. Now it's creating a flow and a shift in defense. You already created your advantage, but if you get that ball up more than five seconds with a defense, every single one on the touch, three point line, you in trouble.

[Zoe Saldana]

Facts. What it also does is it create natural mix mismatches. Because we're all taught in transition, you don't have a man in the NBA. The first rule in transition is you don't have a man like think that you just going to run to your man in transition. The other team. If your rules in the NBA are you go get your man every time in transition, you in trouble, the team will get a layup every possession. So that's the number one rule in the NBA. You don't have a man in transition. And so what it's doing also is it's naturally creating these mismatches. It's naturally creating cross matches to where.

[Draymond Green]

You, you know, Toppin gonna have a guard on. Cause he running.

[Zoe Saldana]

Exactly.

[Draymond Green]

And toppin out there like he on the track, man, he running and next thing you know, they pushing it down. He already in the seal because he. Because the only person get back with him is a guard.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yep, exactly. And you look at, you look at like Holly got maybe three layups in, in the third quarter going to his right hand, stretch out layups. None of them were on Lou Dort. I think one of them was on the Chat. Chat was behind Shea was. Shea was on him. And that's because they're pushing the ball so fast. You just got to get matched up with who's ever the closest man. And that is to their advantage. And they take that advantage. Unfortunately, when the game slow down, you have to that we gotta get that ball to Pascal. He's the only person on Indiana's team that can create a double team.

[Draymond Green]

And that's it.

[Zoe Saldana]

Create the double team. You kick it out. And now you got the first domino to fall. Everything else can just roll.

[Draymond Green]

Yep, exactly. And that. And that's what they missing. And that's what. And all they got. He just didn't go to it. So to go back to what you said, you know, I bet he he at the career right now or probably in the office right now thinking about that stuff. My God, dog. Yep. You know, they understand that. You know, man, it's real. You know, it's real. We've been in the moments, you know what I mean? So you live with some, you know, you go back to the room and you say, man, you start kicking, you start kicking yourself. You just playing it all back, playing it all back. But you can do it all over again. But you can't. You got to move on to the next I too. It's two. Two.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yes, it is two.

[Draymond Green]

Two, man.

[Zoe Saldana]

So speaking of moving on to the next one, we heading to game five and going into game five, what do you think is the most important thing going into Game 5 for OKC, who's heading back home, but then also for Indiana, who got to go back on the road. You've given up home court again. You got to go get it back. What is it heading into game five for these guys?

[Draymond Green]

Well, I think game five for OKC is more so coming back home with some confidence, you know, even though they was losing the entire single game and came back and wanted to end that little bit, gave them the confidence they needed to go win game 5.5Y. You know, they just knew that, oh, we got out of here with one. It's on, you know, so now they can go home and they regroup. They gonna get their energy from their fans. Yeah. So now when they, you know, what, what the media been talking about the last two days. Oh, they look tired. It. Oh, they ain't gonna look tired on game five. I promise you. They ain't gonna be tired in game five. Very scribe but energy gonna be. They just gonna be pulling energy from the crowd. So I expect, you know, OKC to have one of those high scoring games though, that 125, 135 type of game. Game five. My opinion, I feel like the defense gonna create, you know, a lot of tough shots. Like Indiana is getting a lot of good looks and now it's gonna be game five on the road. And a lot of them looks that they making even some tough ones. They better shoot a high percentage and like, game two, they was in the 30s. And so I think it's a. It's a. It's one of them games where OKC got it, make shots. The more that ball go in the basket, even though they getting it out quick, the more you can get your defense set, the more you score, the more you have energy on the defensive end as far as getting stops, because everybody's feeling good, you know, everybody pumping their chest, we scoring the ball. That brings energy on the defensive end also. So now. Now we got confidence on the offensive end. Now we're running more now. Other guy. I. I just think it's going to be one of those games for okc. My opinion, I think it's going to be a game where OKC dominate now. Then it's going to be a domination game. Now Indiana go. Had to go back home as far as regroup and send it to game seven. That's my, you know, kind of. Kind of perception of what's going to happen going forward. I just think OKC got away with one. You know, I think this was the game, and they. And Indiana did what they had to do to get them.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yes, they did.

[Draymond Green]

You know how hard it was to get these two games. They. They could have got. Ooh, that would have won them. That would have won them a Nash. I'm talking about national NBA championship, man. That one game that they had.

[Zoe Saldana]

They had the game. They had the game. This. Listen, this pushed them up 3. 1. Which. Which moves us on.

[Draymond Green]

My goodness, man.

[Zoe Saldana]

Speaking of game five, today in NBA history, LeBron and Kyrie scored 41 points. They go out of their mind. And y' all beat us. Excuse me. Because game five is. I'm suspended. So both guys. Yeah, both guys go for 41, and we are headed back to Cleveland for Game 6. Like, what's the conversation like now? Right? Like, so.

[Draymond Green]

So Game five, that was the year before you. You was thinking about this. This. 16. So. Yes, so 16. So game five, obviously, that happened between you and Braun. Game four, you did as a favor, like, if. If you did it today.

[Zoe Saldana]

Adam did y' all. I didn't do y' all. Yeah, I did what I was supposed to. Adam did you.

[Draymond Green]

But yeah, yeah, that's the who. That. That got something. That ain't got nothing to do with me. They got something to do with y' all. Y' all the ones that's up there talking to Adam and stuff, handling that. That's who handle all this.

[Mo Williams]

Use of flavored tobacco by teens is a crisis. Tobacco companies use Flavors like cotton candy, watermelon ice and cool mint to hook kids like me. They seem harmless, but they aren't. Addiction to nicotine sets us up for a lifetime of health problems. Organ legislators can do something about it. Passing Senate Bills 702A will keep flavored tobacco away from kids. But there are just a few short weeks left for lawmakers to act. Take action to protect kids like me. @ flavorshookorgankids.org paid for by the Campaign.

[Baron Davis]

For Tobacco Free Kids Action Fund.

[Stephen Rinella]

Hi, Zoe Saldana. Welcome to T Mobile. Here's your new iPhone 16 Pro on us.

[Unknown]

Thanks. And here's my old phone to trade in.

[Stephen Rinella]

You don't need a trade in when you switch to T Mobile. We'll give you a new iPhone 16 Pro. Plus we'll help you pay off your old phone up to 8, 800 bucks and you still get to keep it.

[Unknown]

There's always a trade in.

[Stephen Rinella]

Not right now. @ T Mobile.

[Unknown]

I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma.

[Stephen Rinella]

That's okay.

[Unknown]

I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer. It's lavender.

[Stephen Rinella]

I'm good.

[Draymond Green]

Seriously.

[Unknown]

Let me check this pocket. Oh, mints.

[Stephen Rinella]

Really, I'm fine.

[Unknown]

Oh, I have raisins. I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car.

[Dan Flores]

It's our best iPhone offer ever. Switch to T Mobile. Get get a new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple Intelligence on us. No trade in needed. We'll even pay off your phone up to 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits. New line $100 plus a month on experience beyond Finance Agreement $999.99 and qualifying ported for well qualified plus tax and $10 connection charge. Payout via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days credits end in balance due if you pay off early or.

[Unknown]

Cancel see t mobile.com the American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. Hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best selling author and meat eater founder Stephen Rinella.

[Draymond Green]

I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here.

[Dan Flores]

And I'll say, it seems like the.

[Draymond Green]

Ice age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves.

[Unknown]

So join me starting Tuesday, May 6, where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.

[Dan Flores]

Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Unknown]

You say you'd never give in to a meltdown and never fill your feed with kid photos. You say you'd never put a pacifier in your mouth to clean it and never let them run wild through the grocery store. So when you say you'd never let them get into a car without you there, no, it can happen. One in four hot car deaths happen when a kid gets into an unlocked car and can't get out. Never happens before you leave the car. Always stop.

[Zoe Saldana]

Look. Lock.

[Unknown]

Brought to you by NHTSA and the AD Council.

[Draymond Green]

Oh, listen, you did us a favor because by you not being in game five, that. That really gave us confidence. We got past game five. That was the game. Y' all could have put us away. Like, if you play game five, y' all could have put us away because we, We. We would. We just needed something. And the motivation we got going back for Game 6 was the whole time going back home. We. We just. We remember Christmas, Y' all remember, y' all, we played on Christmas and. But y' all came in there talking about, oh, it still smell like champagne up here.

[Zoe Saldana]

Champagne in there.

[Draymond Green]

We. We never forgot that. We never forgot it. Oh, it still smell like champagne. And we like, damn, that's how they feel. So coming back for game six, all we're saying, hey, man, they ain't celebrating in the queue. That was all we were saying. And you already know. All you need is something. You get what I'm saying? So, like, that was the biggest thing. So fast forward, we win game six, going back for game seven. Now we in the mo like, shit, anything can happen type stuff. But what will really got our head right was we started talking about how we're going to be, what we're going to do during the parade this before game seven. That's why you start like Junior with the shirt. You saw a lot of us with a shirt off, but Junior the one that they talk about. But that's what we was. We say stuff. Man, I ain't wearing a shirt for a week. I ain't doing it. Like, it's just things that we're kind of putting out in the atmosphere, like, when we win it, when we win it, when we win it. So it was just that Mindset once we got past game six and game seven. And obviously, man, I tell people this story all the time, and you can now you hear it from someone opposing team perspective. And just to be in that game for every possession, understanding how much everybody. Single possession matters. I played 12 minutes that game. Every possession I had in that game mattered. My matchup with Shawn Livingston, I have to understand his spot. I gotta know exactly what's on the scout report, where I need to send him, what shot I want him taking. You get what I mean? And every single minute that Kyrie on the bench and I'm in the game, like, my minute's important. I can make or break us in these 12 minutes.

[Zoe Saldana]

Absolutely.

[Draymond Green]

So I just remember just every single possession, and just the moment the block happened, the shot happened, just this clock going 00. Just all those moments when you win. And obviously, you have the experience of doing it multiple times, but just the feeling of winning the clock. Just imagine your first one, how that felt. Yeah, that's how mine felt, what I'm saying, you know? So at the end of the day, then you going back to Cleveland. We leave you guys. I don't know if you know this story. I'm so. I'm so.

[Zoe Saldana]

You do Vegas?

[Draymond Green]

Oh, yeah. We were debating, but. But this is the crazy thing, though, Dre. This is the crazy thing. We had two planes. It was two planes. One plane for the family, one plane for the team, right? They put the family on the plane, they went on to Cleveland. We got in the air for an hour, and boom, boom, boom. We in bay. We like, what the. We in Vegas. Family home, man. We in Vegas till 8, 8, 9 in the morning. Then we fly to Cleveland, man. There's 100,000 people, like, at the airport. It's crazy. 1.5 million people downtown at the parade. 1.5 million, man. It was an experience like no other.

[Zoe Saldana]

I bet it was. I remember our first parade in Oakland. Oakland. Never expected to see a parade, and there was over a million people out there, and it was one of the best days of my life. So I can only imagine what that was like from y' all, especially being in the position where it's like, yo, you supposed to win, lose the series.

[Draymond Green]

Exactly.

[Zoe Saldana]

Like it's over.

[Draymond Green]

Exactly.

[Zoe Saldana]

I can only imagine what's. What. What that was like. But in speaking of that, that ended up being the last year of your career. Yeah. Two part question number one, how'd you end up back in Cleveland for the last year of your career, where you became an All Star? Where you Like, Mo Williams always had a great career and was putting together a good career, but, like, you really became one of the ones, in my opinion. Like, in Cleveland, like, yeah, you had 50 before and, like, all of the things, but, like, we've seen other guys have 50. Like that. You think, all right, like, that guy had 50. But, like, I felt like you really became, like, one of them dudes in Cleveland and then to go there for that last year, what was that whole process like for you?

[Draymond Green]

It was. It was good, man, because that was. I was in. I was in Minnesota. We was bad that year. That's. That was the year that Flip passed away, unfortunately, right after that. And me, you, Ricky Rubio, we just drafted Zach Lavigne, and I signed there as a free agent. I was coming off surgery with my thumb leaving Utah, and I went to Minnesota, and I started playing, you know, toward the first half of the season. You know, Zach. They were trying to bring Zach along. Rubio got hurt. So I started playing a lot of minutes, starting playing 35, 37, and it always works itself out. So I'm hoping. And then all of a sudden, you know, they wanted. We sorry as hell. So they, you know, they trying to bring Zach up, which was a good decision. And Flip came to me. It was crazy because I was supposed to go to Cleveland, obviously. I was supposed to get bought out and go to Cleveland mid season and play against y' all in the 15 final. I would have been against y' all that year. So Flip come to me. He said, mo, I look, you know, he said, I'm a trade you, man. So, you know, I'm gonna play this. This how real Flip Saunders was. He came to me, said, mama, I'm gonna trade you. No. He said, hey, I'm a Zach Levine young fella. We, you know, we finna bring him up. He gonna play more than me. He ain't gonna play. But I'm. I'm gonna trade you. So, you know, talk to your agent, y' all get back with me. Said, man, I can't look down at that bench and know you. You know, you should be playing, and I can't play. I said, man, that's real. So we had our team. It was obviously la, and it was Cleveland. So we went to him with those options. You know, me and Rich talk, and Rich, you know, talking through. Talking for Braun, and he's just like, yeah, man, let's figure out how we can get bought out over there and the deal done. So we was trying to. Working through that. The Flip came to him and said, hey man, I can't give you away for nothing. That ain't gonna happen. So I end up going to Charlotte and Kimball was down a little bit, and they were right in that ninth spot. So they was fighting for a playoff spot. And let me tell you something crazy about that season. I was in Minnesota. We were sorry as hell. I won Western conference player of the year. I'm not player of the year player of the week, Western conference player of the week. I get traded mid season to the Eastern conference of Charlotte second week, they'll win eastcom player of the week. Look up the records on the only player that ever did that.

[Zoe Saldana]

That's fire.

[Draymond Green]

Win player of the week in both conferences in the same year. Obviously you got to get traded, but I'm the only player that's ever been done. I looked it up. Now you tell me if I'm wrong, but that's something I could take to my grave right there that I ain't seen happen too often, you know, so obviously. Exactly. So obviously.

[Zoe Saldana]

Cause guys that good to win those awards don't get traded.

[Draymond Green]

Exactly, exactly. So I won player of the week in both. Both conferences in the same year. So I was a free agent this summer. And you remember Kyrie was hurt. Remember he came back on Christmas against y' all?

[Zoe Saldana]

Yes, he did.

[Draymond Green]

You know, the next year. So I was a free agent and I had some option to go some team and get a little money, but it was. It was non playoff teams or teams that didn't have a chance. And then, then I started talking to Cleveland. Rich talk. Me and Griff was talking. Dave, Dave was over there, Griffin was over there at the time. So we started talking. They ain't had no money. So basically, you know, they. They like, you know, we come over here, Kyrie gonna be out. We need somebody to come in and start and play heavy minutes. You know, Deli is a backup and we want to keep him in that role. And when Kyrie come back, you know, he's going to play Dallas, going to play. You just got to stay ready, you know. So they kind of sold me on that. And just like, man, you know, we compete for a championship and, you know, when things open up, we'll be, you know, money, we'll be willing to pay you. Obviously you have opportunity to go get it wherever you want to go. So I took that option, you know, because I wanted to win a championship. Because at the moment, at the time, I was even debating being done anyway, not even worried about another contract because actually my Knee was messed up and I had another year left on the deal. I just got the surgery and shut it down. And I played through that season. My last season, I played through it with a messed up knee and got surgery after the season and decided to hang it up. But the championship aspect of it really made the decision for me. It made the decision easy for me. And then, you know, and then at that time, you know, I had the gym in Dallas, I had the youth team going on, and I was coaching. I had got that bull. And you know, at that point I got, you know, obviously I got seven boys and all my boys coming up playing, and I, I wanted to start my second half of my career. I knew I wanted to coach. And eventually I want to, you know, obviously get to a level where I can compete for a national championship. But, you know, I gotta grind. I gotta pay my dues. You know what I mean? And I'm, I'm obviously at Jackson State hbcu, where we don't have all the resources. You know, people don't really understand, like, the things I gotta do, you know, as far as like non conference schedule, you know, I gotta play, you know, the Houstons, the Michigan states, the, you know, the dude, the Gonzaga's, you know, to get a hundred thousand dollars a game to raise my budget, which is now a hundred thousand dollars. So, you know, I can pay my salary, our guys can travel the way we need to travel and get the thing we gotta get. But what that do is it. It puts us on the road with 13 straight game. We don't have a schedule to compete like, you know, other teams. And then you look at my record and you say, you know, he's just a 500 Colt, but I'm 41 and 15 in conference play. You get what I'm saying? Absolutely. You know, but I didn't play 39 straight on the road by games, you.

[Zoe Saldana]

Know what I mean?

[Baron Davis]

So nearly 90% of kids who vape say flavors are why they do it.

[Mo Williams]

A lot of the flavors that I've heard are like peach, mango, watermelon. It makes it seem like more childlike and innocent. Oh, I tried this once. It won't be that much of a problem. But then eventually it becomes a problem.

[Baron Davis]

It's time to restrict the sale of flavored tobacco products in Oregon and protect our kids from nicotine addiction. Urge lawmakers to Pass Senate Bill 702A. Take action at flavorshookoreegoids.org paid for by the Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids Action Fund.

[Stephen Rinella]

Hi, Zoe Saldana. Welcome to T Mobile. Here's your new iPhone 16 Pro on us.

[Unknown]

Thanks. And here's my old phone to trade in.

[Stephen Rinella]

You don't need a trade in. When you switch to T Mobile, we'll give you a new iPhone 16 Pro. Plus we'll help you pay off your old phone. Up to 800 bucks and you still get to keep it.

[Unknown]

There's always a trade in.

[Stephen Rinella]

Not right now. AT T Mobile.

[Unknown]

I feel like I have to give you some something in return for karma.

[Stephen Rinella]

That's okay.

[Unknown]

I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer. It's lavender.

[Stephen Rinella]

I'm good.

[Dan Flores]

Seriously.

[Unknown]

Let me check this pocket. Oh, mints.

[Stephen Rinella]

Really, I'm fine.

[Unknown]

Oh, I have raisins. I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car.

[Dan Flores]

It's our best iPhone offer ever. Switch to T Mobile. Get a new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple Intelligence on us. No trade in needed. We'll even pay off your phone up to 800. 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits. New line 100 plus a month on experience beyond finance agreement. $999.99 and qualifying ported for well qualified plus tax and $10 connection charge. Pay off via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days credits end and balance due. If you pay off earlier, cancel CT.

[Unknown]

Mobile.Com the American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. Hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores and brought to you by Velvet Buck, this podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best selling author and Meat Eater founder Stephen Rinella.

[Draymond Green]

I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here.

[Dan Flores]

And I'll say it sounds it seems like the Ice Age people that were.

[Draymond Green]

Here didn't have a real affinity for caves.

[Unknown]

So join me starting Tuesday, May 6, where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.

[Dan Flores]

Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Unknown]

You say you'd never give in to a meltdown and never fill your feed with kid photos. You say you'd never put a pest in your mouth to clean it and never let them run wild through the Grocery store. So when you say you'd never let them get into a car without you there. No, it can happen. One in four hot car deaths happen when a kid gets into an unlocked car and can't get out. Never happens before you leave the car. Always stop.

[Zoe Saldana]

Look. Lock.

[Unknown]

Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council.

[Draymond Green]

So for me, it's like people don't understand that story. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, I. I reach out to people to just try to get people to kind of understand if, if we can just get some support, like man, we get somebody together because it. We are five zero we 501C three. Yeah. You can get all your write offs because we're a school, we're educational school. So now when we talking about helping our. Kind of helping our institution, that's the, that's how we can help us. You know, it ain't about talking about it or putting all this. Whatever. It's a. It's the financial part is the difference in the, the. The Dukes. Not even the Dukes. I'm talking about like the Sam Houston and Louisiana's, you know, just don't. That type. That type of level, like, they, they don't have to go out and play by game. They have home games. They can, you know, they could do that because they got a million dollars coming in. The difference between those schools, I have to go raise that money by playing games. Now, we can function like any other Division 1 team, but if you say I'm just giving as an example, I say, Drake, you are GM. Because that's what these fools got right? You are GM. All you doing is you gonna go to 10 people that you know and say, match my 100,000. And they gonna say, all right, Dre, I'm gonna match your 100,000. And you're gonna create a. You're gonna create an entity. Y' all gonna put that. You're gonna get that money, you're gonna send it to Jack State, that Etsy. You're gonna get it right off of. From. From a donation every single year that creates our budget. You know what I mean? So now I can go play 13 non conference game where I'm playing North Carolina Central. You know what I'm saying? Where I'm playing. You get what I'm saying? Where I'm playing Savannah State, right? Those are games I should be playing. Why should I? Don't me playing Michigan State. That don't make sense.

[Zoe Saldana]

It's just a practice game for us.

[Draymond Green]

But I gotta do it. You get what I'm saying? I gotta go raise a hundred thousand. But that ain't the type of environment you're giving your kid. Because now you gotta think about this. Imagine you want to see you have a son and you want to send your son to hbcu. You played at Michigan State. You want him to have some of the same things that you had. You know, all the things that. That school, it can be created at hbcu, but you don't have the capacity to get it done. You get what I mean? So if you can get people to get involved in a way of getting the money here now you can go raise money and, and have a meal plan and have certain things. The little things you can't go get because you're spending all your money just on rating for buy game and getting through your salaries and everything like that. So you just robbing Peter to pay Paul every year instead of building things around. So that's the biggest thing that I want you to know when you around people. It ain't got to be just Jackson State. But just understand HBCUs in general. If they have a group and that's something that you can be an initiative forefront and make that initiative where get groups together and get. That's tied to HBCUs as far as financially put some toward them, you know what I mean? And. And put some toward the. The men's basketball program or whatever program that they tied to. Because that's the difference between, you know, those universities and hbcu. Because we all operate the same.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah. And I think, I think let's. Let's also take it a step further because I, I am a college basketball fan and obviously I. I watch Michigan State faithfully. But you talk Selection Sunday and all these things. Let's take it a step further. Say y' all do win your conference, but you've lost 13 games to Michigan State, Duke, North Carolina, Gonzaga, blah, blah, blah. Because you've had to play these games from a budget standpoint. Now you get the 1616 playing game as opposed to if you didn't have to play those games. And y' all are Jackson state, but are 29 and 4.

[Draymond Green]

Exactly.

[Zoe Saldana]

You may get the 13 seed that don't have to play in. And it's just a totally different ball game than the 16 16. You win the 16 16. Great. Good luck. You play Auburn.

[Draymond Green]

Exactly. And you got no chance that as well.

[Zoe Saldana]

Right.

[Draymond Green]

Like you have no chance. And that's one thing. And we're all fighting for just that one spot. You're Talking about and, and even going further with that is, you take me for, for example, last year, I finished second in the league last year, one game out of first place. Right? One game and then one game of the tournament. So just think about this. I got 13 non conference guys. I'll go 0 and 13 and non conference from that point on, when conference play started, I won 16 out of 20 games. You get what I'm saying? So imagine if I play a non conference schedule like anybody else and just say I go 8 and 5.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Draymond Green]

That's 24. That's 24 and 9. Now I lose that championship game, I'm in the NIT. I'm in some kind of other tournament. I don't even get the opportunity to go into another tournament because I'm 18, I'm 16 to 17, I'm below 500. But I didn't want 16 out of 20 games when conference play start. So that's what I'm trying to change. And the only way I can change that is getting money to the money that I got to go get to buy money. That 900,000, if I can raise that and give that to the school now I can create the schedule where it can be balanced, where I can get home games and you get good competitive games just like anybody else.

[Zoe Saldana]

Play that. Go.

[Draymond Green]

You go look at the uabs, you know, the two lane, like the faus. The, those schools, they're, they can. We're on the same level as them, but the difference is they coach only gonna have to go play one of those games.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yes.

[Draymond Green]

To go get 100,000, I gotta go get 900. That's the difference. You know, because the school, the school aspect, the actual school, the athletic department is the department of the school. The school is funding all departments. Right. At those schools I'm talking about at Jackson State Athletic, we create our own budget. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Like the school does. If I don't go out and play $900,000, we do not operate. So I'm not only helping men's basketball, but I'm helping women's basketball, I'm helping volleyball, football go out and play one game. They don't have to play one game. And they just, they just fund themselves, but I gotta fund three because the other sports are not generating income generating sports. I'm the only sport on campus that can go out and raise a million dollars just playing games and getting my ass kicked.

[Zoe Saldana]

Wow. And then they take some of that money and give it to other programs.

[Draymond Green]

Yes.

[Zoe Saldana]

How do you win?

[Draymond Green]

My point exactly. I just told you. I am 41 and 15 in conference play in three years. But I played 39 straight games on the road. I'm talking about I ain't playing. I'm playing Missouri. I'm playing Memphis. That's what I'm playing. I went to Missouri and beat them. I went to SMU and I beat them. I went to Georgetown. It's a four point game with two minutes to go. And George Cooler said, hey, Mo, it ain't gonna be long for you get somewhere, but don't call me no more. I'm not playing. So the difference is now when you talking about me knowing what I'm doing, trying to move up and get other jobs. They look at man, why he ain't winning game. Because those ads ain't on this. They don't understand what I gotta go through. So that's why I tell this story. Enough. You don't know this. You get what I'm saying? So when I call people and I'm like, yo, I need this, I need that. It's hard. Two people have done something for me in the in that I know in the league. Damn. Sent me 50, CJ sent me 10. You know what I mean? They under. They understand what's going on.

[Zoe Saldana]

But I can go with the smaller schools.

[Draymond Green]

Exactly. You know, so I'm trying to get the work because I didn't know this until I got here. We don't. Because we got our own lives. We ain't. We don't understand this. We just know when we see non conference game and It's A sweats HBCU playing the B school, they losing by 60. That's all we know. That's all we know. They have no business playing them. We have no.

[Zoe Saldana]

We have no business.

[Draymond Green]

Why you think, why you think football has a NCAA and LCS practice? They not playing them. Yeah, we shouldn't play Duke. We shouldn't play Alabama. Like they shouldn't be on our schedule. Like how am I skipping? You know, Louisiana Monroe, you know what I'm saying? And going to play them because Louisiana Monroe can't pay a hundred thousand dollars. So I have to go play Yukon Gonzaga because all they doing is to try to feed all them schools are trying to fill three games on their schedule. So they just gonna go give us $100,000 to come up there and get their butt whooped. We ain't got a chance to win the game. That ain't making you no better. You spending time keeping your team Together, you get what I'm saying? Because you ain't gonna win the game. The refs ain't gonna let you. It's. It's so much against you. So when I go to Missouri, SEC team and beat them on they floor, man, we celebrate. Why we celebrate? Cause we weren't supposed to win this game.

[Zoe Saldana]

That part.

[Draymond Green]

That part, you know? So, man, if you can. If you can understand that and say, man, you know what, Mo? I'm gonna figure out some way to help you that'll change our life down here.

[Zoe Saldana]

I respect. So. So from an nil standpoint, right? Like the actual nil, did that affect y' all or because. Because of the problems you already dealing with that didn't necessarily come to you see what I'm trying to say? Like, didn't necessarily come to that level because of the problems you already dealing with, or did Nil screw y' all even more?

[Draymond Green]

No, I think one of both. I think when I say one or both, I mean it didn't screw us, but in some cases it did when I say it didn't, because it's so many kids out there. It's so many kids, and everybody think that they're going to get a hundred thousand, two hundred thousand, three hundred thousand so far going up. You know, if you want to talk to millions, we talking about a select few. But. But the norm is in the 3, 400, you know, like 500, 600, depends on what level. You know, high major, you know, seven on up, mid major, gonna be kind of two up to seven. And then when you get down to our level, lower level, you know, any. Anything under 100, you know, is good, you know, so, you know, my guys is, you know, they. They. They're getting good money, you know, and that's another way that, you know, that I. That's. That's part that I have to do. So I can't do nothing for the buy money because I won't have a team if I don't have no money to even get kids. No money. So from that aspect, you got to be able to have money on my level. You have to pay guys, and guys are getting paid on our level. If you want to be good, you know. Is it, for example, Michigan, they got players on a team making $2 million?

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Draymond Green]

You know what I mean? We don't have it. You get what I mean? So you come here and get you a nice little number under 100, under 50, you know, you in that rain, you living good. You know what I mean? And on our Level, you really at the upper echelon. You doing it big, you know, because you have some cases down here where they don't have nothing, you know, so the. The beauty of it is, is there's a lot of guys that get in the portal looking for the money. And on our level, you got to be smart about it and just. And we're at a point where we have to wait, you know, someone recruiting open up. I can't just go out and recruit you right away. You know, I gotta wait till that. That. That domino just keeps falling down, you know, because money gonna dry up, of course. And then. And then when. You know, when that 50,000, 60,000 was. Was, like, disrespectful. Now it's almost like, dude, that is so grand. A month. Okay, all right, I'm like. And deal. You know, it's different when you don't have nothing, so you kind of just sit on it sometime and get the right kid, you know? You just get the right kid, you know? Do I have kids, you know, that can go to Duke one day possibly, you know, but they young, you know, they freshmen. You know, I. I recruit young and I recruit kids. You know, they got an opportunity to play at bigger schools, and I sell them. I'm different. I. I get good kids because I sell them on the fact that I want to get you to that level. I want to get you a Bama. I want to get you a state. Give me one or two years, you know, And I got a kid like that last year that was freshman of the year. He'll be a sophomore this year, and I expect him to have a big year and get in the portal and go get some money. I got a kid, a guard, man, coming back that was a McDonald's All American and got a chance. We got a real chance to be a pro. A real chance. Point guard transferred from me from Ole Miss. The kid. The kid is electric. He got hurt, missed last season, came back this. This season second in the league and scoring first in the league and assist. So I got talent, you know what I mean? So, like, with the team, I got safest. I play, you know, a respectable schedule, man. I'm. I'm 20, 24 wins, you know? You know, it's. It's just a different ball game. So I'm fighting real hard to kind of change that aspect of. Because me, personally, man, I don't want. I don't want to leave you get what I'm saying? I like the space. I'm at the crib, man. I want to build this thing and I, and I just want to be able to do that for, for, for, for my city, you know what I'm saying? So if I, if I can get hold of you guys and get some up, get some people just to understand it and support it, man, watch this thing blow up and be a part of it, and I think it'll be something special.

[Zoe Saldana]

No doubt, man. No, that's good, that's good to hear. Because that I, I never had any clue that that was the case. And so just like, just knowing that, I think it makes a difference for all of us. Just having the knowledge. Right. For sure you don't got the knowledge. You just don't know. Right. Like, you think all these schools, like.

[Draymond Green]

It'S a college, don't work like that.

[Zoe Saldana]

You know, and that's just kind of what you think. So I think, But I also think, you know, and we'll move on before we get out of here. But I hope in all these rules that they're changing because they're figuring it out, right? Like the nil or four or five years old or something like that to transfer portal, like, they're, I just feel like they're throwing shit out of wall and seeing what sticks.

[Draymond Green]

Exactly.

[Zoe Saldana]

I hope that it ultimately can become a system like your where. And when I say Europe, I mean European football in particular, where you come get a guy from the lower league, you gotta pay that program $2 million to get that player, you know?

[Draymond Green]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

So maybe it's not $2 million. Like, that's professional sports. It's PSG, it's Real Madrid. Like, that's a different. But maybe it's not. But to your point, them having to pay you $200,000, 300,000, that makes a big difference.

[Draymond Green]

Big difference.

[Zoe Saldana]

I hope to see that. And I think it's only fair that as this thing continues to come into effect and rules continue to change, that when you're getting these kids from these smaller schools, you gotta pay that smaller school, gotta give that school a chance. You're gonna come. You shouldn't just be able to free for all every year up. That player had a good year in there. Come here, like. Cause I know you. And so I hope it gets to a point to where there's like a transfer fee, because this is no longer amateur sports. This is no longer, you know, you, what is it? What they, they call college? I, I, it's so fake. I forget what.

[Draymond Green]

Hey, hey, you want, you want to hear something? You want to hear something crazy? So you want to hear something crazy, Dre? So I was talking to a coach. I don't want to say the name because he told me, this is confident. You talking about Nil. So imagine if this happened to you. So in schools, some schools now, the schools are able to pay the kids right now, Most of the schools now. But in some schools, you got a certain date. Like, say the date is, like, June 30, right? That date is the only. Like, if you don't spend that money that we're giving you for Nil, then it goes away. So listen to this. So Your deal is 2 million a year. They gotta give you the 2 million June 30, when you get on campus.

[Zoe Saldana]

So you can leave.

[Draymond Green]

My point exactly. Now, you sign, but you on campus. They gotta give you all. They ain't giving it to you monthly, first and 15. $2 million in your hand, June. That's a true story. What? Man, a coach told me that. I didn't.

[Zoe Saldana]

I don't even get my money like that.

[Draymond Green]

My point exactly. Said they had to use it because it would have went away. Went away on that date. So they had to give it to them or they wouldn't have had it. Imagine that. What would you. Man, in college, 18, 19, 20 years old, you just give me $2 million? Come on, man.

[Zoe Saldana]

That's what it say.

[Draymond Green]

That's what. Now, that's when you say they gonna have to make something, you know, but from the changes they just made. Created that, though. Think about it. So really, you didn't have it. You created another issue.

[Zoe Saldana]

Oh, yeah. You created more because.

[Draymond Green]

Because of the new rule. That's what that school had to do.

[Zoe Saldana]

But I actually think the NCAA did that on purpose. Like, I think the NCAA wanted to throw this whole thing in everyone face like, boom, there you go. Got it. Let it blow up in everybody.

[Draymond Green]

Yeah. Yeah. That's what y' all want here.

[Zoe Saldana]

That's. Well, that's what. That's what I believe happened. But I. A couple questions before we get out of here. Just talking about the NBA number one, and I would love to know your answer to this question. Because of who you were in your career and that line you walked right, of like, being an All Star, being a guy who got it. But for the past few weeks, it's been this constant conversation about players. That's a superstar or not. Yeah, yeah. And so I think my question to you is, how would you describe a superstar in the NBA? We all saw magic the other day. Say a person who can go on the road and sell their building out. How do you describe.

[Draymond Green]

That's just marketing. You know what I mean? You know, I feel like, you know, superstar is, I'm talking about pure on the court. He, you know, that's, that's, that's marketing and that's, that's just selling stuff.

[Baron Davis]

Nearly 90% of kids who vape say flavors are why they do it.

[Mo Williams]

A lot of the flavors that I've heard are like peach, mango, watermelon. It makes it seem like more childlike and innocent. Oh, if I try this once, it won't be that much of a problem. But then eventually it becomes a problem.

[Baron Davis]

It's time to restrict the sale of flavored tobacco products in Oregon and protect our kids from nicotine addiction. Urge lawmakers to Pass Senate Bill 702A. Take action at flavorshookoregonkids.org paid for by the Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids Action Fund.

[Stephen Rinella]

Hi, Zoe Saldana. Welcome to T Mobile. Here's your new iPhone 16 Pro on us.

[Unknown]

Thanks. And here's my old phone to trade in.

[Stephen Rinella]

You don't need a trade in. When you switch to T mobile, mobile will give you a new iPhone 16 Pro. Plus we'll help you pay off your old Phone up to 800 bucks and you still get to keep it.

[Unknown]

There's always a trade end.

[Stephen Rinella]

Not right now. At T Mobile.

[Unknown]

I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma.

[Stephen Rinella]

That's okay.

[Unknown]

I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer. It's lavender.

[Stephen Rinella]

I'm good. Seriously.

[Unknown]

Let me check this pocket. Oh, mints.

[Stephen Rinella]

Really, I'm fine.

[Unknown]

Oh, I have raisins. I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec. I got cupcakes in the car.

[Dan Flores]

It's our best iPhone offer ever. Switch to T Mobile. Get a new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple intelligence on us, no trade in needed. We'll even pay off your phone up to 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits. New line 100 plus a month on experience beyond Finance Agreement 999.99 and qualifying ported for well qualified plus tax and 10 connection charge payout via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days credits and imbalance due if you pay off early or cancel.

[Unknown]

See T Mobile the American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat eater Podcast network. Hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores and brought to you by Velvet Buck, this podcast looks at a west available nowhere else. Each episode I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historians, Dr. Randall Williams and best selling author and meat eater founder Stephen Rinella.

[Draymond Green]

I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here.

[Dan Flores]

And I'll say it seems like the.

[Draymond Green]

Ice age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves.

[Unknown]

So join me starting Tuesday, May 6, where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.

[Dan Flores]

Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Unknown]

You say you'd never give in to a meltdown and never fill your feed with kid photos. You say you'd never put a pacifier in your mouth to clean it. And never let them run wild through the grocery store. So when you say you'd never let them get into a car without you there. No it can happen. One in four hot car deaths happen when a kid gets into an unlocked car and can't get out. Never happens before you leave the car. Always stop.

[Zoe Saldana]

Look lock.

[Unknown]

Brought to you by NHTSA and the.

[Draymond Green]

Ad Council how to be a Superstar to sell stuff you gotta just be marketable. But when you talk about a superstar, I'm talking about somebody that can galvanize a whole franchise. You get what I mean? Like Steph is a superstar, you know what I'm saying? Just as aura just, just off when that moment and just to take step out of just what I'm just talking about a superstar now just in any moment understanding on how big that stage is and always able to step up into that, that spot of whatever it is that they do best on how they are a superstar. I feel like a superstar is someone that no matter what the opponent has in front of them, they can overcome it. No matter if they might get knocked down. They may got stopped in this series or this game. But at the end of the day he's going to figure that out. That's a superstar. You know it. I'm a roll star, you know what I'm saying? So at the end of the day it's moments where I can't do nothing tonight. I mean they, they own me. First of all I'm on the side of had three good games. They, they got a scheme on me. They, they, they ain't really worried about Braun tonight. They feel like that we take Mo out then you know, let Brian get his 40 tonight. He ain't in really aggressive night anyway, then I'm just gonna struggle a little bit. It ain't nothing I can do. You know what I mean? They scheme got me, but a superstar, it ain't nothing you can do. You just gotta just hope that they ain't. They don't figure out their game, and they don't figure out their series, and, you know, they just. Whatever you created, you know, it just, you know, obviously just kept them in a funk. You know, just. I'll take 16, for example. Just. That was kind of the first season where we just kind of just. Our scout report was, anytime Steph is around, you better not go by him without touching. Like, every time you seen him touch him, boom. And Junior just happened to be in the screen with him the whole time, and he just taking advantage, he leaning into it. You know what I'm saying? So, like, that was something that we did. You know what I'm saying? That was in the scout report. That's something that we talked about, you know, making sure we physical, making sure we hitting them. Making sure we hitting them, making. Because he never wanted to switch, you know, so we was. Make them switch. Hit them, you know, so when you understanding that, you look at stuff now, you can't do that to step today.

[Zoe Saldana]

You're not.

[Draymond Green]

You know what I'm saying?

[Zoe Saldana]

Does that work? So how many. So how many superstars do you say are actually in the NBA? Because I think people get. Get the superstar tag, and they not superstars. Yeah.

[Draymond Green]

Hey, listen, man, that's a small room, dog, bro. They don't even. It ain't even no key to their room. Like, you gotta, like, get it stamped on you, and it just automatically open when you get there. You get what I'm saying? Like, you talk about superstar, I mean, you know, obviously, broad you got obviously. Like, that ain't even to talk about. I put Steph in that category, obviously. Giannis. And when I say Giannis, in my opinion. Because I don't give a damn, man. Yeah, man, you can't. Listen, man, that's Giannis. You understand exactly what I'm saying? It ain't no guarding him. It's just scheming for him. And what we gonna give them, what we forcing them into? Like, that's a sign of a superstar, too. It's like, man, we finna go out here and guard them. We finna shut them down. Nah, man, we forcing into this right here all night long. And if he go get 40 right here, this. It is what it is. You know, I gotta pause Man. Because I can't just get it out like that, you know? I don't just want to be saying names. I mean, qua. I mean. Oh, that's that. I mean, yeah, but you. But you straddling. When you get to, you know, like, he's a star, like James Harden, the star. He's like a really good star, you know, like, man, superstar, like, that's almost. When you talk about superstar, you always talk about, man, that's. It's tricky, man. Like, legend stuff, man. You talking about AIs, and, like, that's almost disrespectful to the AIs.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Draymond Green]

You know what I'm saying? Like, man, I remember my second year in the league, man. I'll never forget this third year might have been my third year, man. This the year after. Because he won the championship. He won MVP in 04. There's gotta be 2005, man. We playing Philly in Milwaukee, AI scoring champion the previous season. MVP my first year start. And on my second year start, we playing him in Milwaukee. He first had 15 points. Make a long story short, first half, 15 points. We go aheadtime to your porter to hype me up. Hey, Mom's doing a hell of a job, man, over there. Keep it up. You know. So. So you coming up. So you come by the tunnel. I gotta walk. Come about tunnel, they tell us. Oh, he gotta go to his goal. We're gonna go. We gotta walk by each other. So, you know, I'm walking by. I remember what coach said. And there, I'm young, it's my third year. So walking by, AI. Hey. I walked by and said, see, a young fell out and sweated to look out. That's all. All he said, Drake. That's all he said. But we never stopped. He said it as he walking by. Hey, young fella, I didn't sweat it. Didn't look out and we just left. I just act like I ain't here, but I heard he finished the game 54, 18 and a half, man. We walked by each other and said, hey, young fella, I swear to that, look out, it's over. 54.

[Zoe Saldana]

Jesus Christ.

[Draymond Green]

That's a true story. That's a true story. True story, man. Everybody asking, that's a superstar.

[Zoe Saldana]

That's Steph Curry in the front of Boston bench in 2022, saying, this, y' all last win in this finals. And that actually being your last win, obviously, that's a different thing. It's the NBA Finals, but only superstars can do that. We once heard. I don't know if the story is true, but we once heard a story of Patrick Beverley saying, you had the last five years. I got the next five years. Superstars can say that, but you have to be a superstar because you have to be able to control so much. And only superstars. And by the way, when I say only superstars, like four to five of them, there's not.

[Draymond Green]

That's it. That's it. Like, man, as much as I love kd, like, much as I love kd, like, he, he's a star. Like KD or superstar.

[Zoe Saldana]

No, no, Katie is.

[Draymond Green]

I'm not disrespecting you, but, but okay, I'm all with you. I'm with you.

[Dan Flores]

You know, and I'm gonna tell you.

[Zoe Saldana]

Why I said okay, superstar.

[Draymond Green]

Because I was gonna say like, superstar right here. And like Katie, like, like, to me, he, like, he like, he like, man, they ready to open the door for him.

[Zoe Saldana]

You want me to tell you why Katie is.

[Draymond Green]

But you play. But you played with him, though. You played with him.

[Zoe Saldana]

I'm gonna tell you why. Katie is a superstar. No matter where you place him, he can do the same exact thing.

[Draymond Green]

Okay?

[Zoe Saldana]

I don't care if he's on my team. Your team, LeBron James team, Nikola Jokic's team, Steph Curry team, he can do the same exact thing on no matter where he is. That's just.

[Draymond Green]

So now you opening it up a little bit now.

[Zoe Saldana]

So James Harden, has he done the same exact thing anywhere else outside of Houston kg.

[Draymond Green]

Okay, that's what I'm saying.

[Zoe Saldana]

That's a superstar.

[Draymond Green]

That's what I'm saying. When you say, when you, when we locked in on KD like a no brainer superstar, then that's when the. Kgs, when you start talking kgs, the. Because you get what I'm saying now, it's like they're, they're no brainers. You get what I'm saying? When I, when we were talking about like superstar, like transcended, like now that list get, get a little bit bigger.

[Zoe Saldana]

I see what you're saying.

[Draymond Green]

You know what I'm saying for sure it get bigger now when we ain't really, you know, locked in on just kind of two qualities and we just open it up, it's just kind of like the bag. Then you can start, you know, not, Not a Paul Pierce's coming question.

[Zoe Saldana]

All right.

[Draymond Green]

I like what I'm saying.

[Zoe Saldana]

All right. We go back, we went.

[Draymond Green]

You get what I'm saying? Paul Pierce coming question. You know, he, he like borderline almost now you get what I'm saying? And we started to broaden it up a little bit.

[Zoe Saldana]

Definitely not in the category. No disrespect to the truth. I think he is the truth. But he's.

[Draymond Green]

But you get what I'm saying.

[Zoe Saldana]

Category.

[Draymond Green]

But you're giving me too much. All right, Exactly.

[Zoe Saldana]

I can't argue that one. Say no more. I can't argue that one. Okay, respect.

[Draymond Green]

But, but that's why, that's a touchy. That's why they hadn't been a topic for a month or so now.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yes, sir.

[Draymond Green]

Because, because we respect people so much. Where I feel like KG, I feel like AIs and all them guys are superstar, but everybody like Honda, you, it's, it just all depends on how you categorize superstars. You know, Some people is like, nah, bro, it ain't number two up. Mike and Mike and Braun. That's it. You know what I'm saying? Kobe ain't even there. I heard that.

[Zoe Saldana]

That's idiotic.

[Draymond Green]

You get what I'm saying?

[Zoe Saldana]

Listen, I, I follow you.

[Draymond Green]

Oh, that's just a bra. I just abroad it. And I, and I, and I take that back about kd because now the more I think about it, I just felt like I disrespected him. You feel me? So it's like, you get what I'm saying? When you think about it, you know, it's like, okay, if you brought it up, take it no brain. You know what I'm saying? He on the same level as AI kg.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yes.

[Draymond Green]

Because if they superstars, this a no brainer for kd. But if you saying, hey man, they gotta be on Mike and bro 11. I'm like, real shield ain't number two of them. Three of them.

[Zoe Saldana]

From a basketball perspective, KD and Allen Iverson are definitely on. And, and KD's a two time champion. Right? And, and by the way, I, I, I'm the biggest Allen Iverson fan. Shout out to the og. Just had a birthday. Happy birthday to him again. Happy 50th. But from a basketball perspective, I feel like what KD bring to the game and what AI brought to the game is very similar. Where it differs is AI changed the whole culture and he changed the whole way of how we all look at the game, how we felt like we can act, how we thought we could dress, how like he changed so many different things. And I think that's what makes AI a little different. But no, no, I mean, KD got.

[Draymond Green]

The same effect though.

[Zoe Saldana]

He does. KD got Everybody who's over 6, 7, thinking we should dribble it because.

[Draymond Green]

And how authentic he is. You get what I'm saying? Just how he. How. How he wanted to God. Yeah. So I think he has an AI kind of feel, you know, from a superstar standpoint. You get what I mean? So the superstar that was in the league at that time with AI had they own Persona. Now the superstars in the league, along with kd, the Bronze and the Steps, they got a whole different Persona than KD. KD counted the AI of this group.

[Zoe Saldana]

No 1000%. I agree. My last question before we get out of here, and I think this is an interesting question for me. You played with Braun before he went to Miami. You also played with Brian after he left Miami. What was the.

[Draymond Green]

What.

[Zoe Saldana]

What was any difference that you've seen?

[Draymond Green]

And maturity. Maturity. All the little things. Maturity. Just older, you know, just doing things. Just, you know, maturity. You know, the first time I was there, he did all the things he was doing when he got back, but he was doing it better, and he was doing it, you know, more precise. You know, he added. He had it dialed in. You know, when they talk about, you know, him taking care of his body, you know, he was doing that the first time, but when I got with him the second time, it was like.

[Baron Davis]

Nearly 90% of kids who vape say flavors are why they do it.

[Mo Williams]

A lot of the flavors that I've heard are like peach, mango, watermelon. It makes it seem like more childlike and innocent. Oh, I try this once, it won't be that much of a problem. But then eventually it becomes a problem.

[Baron Davis]

It's time to restrict the sale of flavored tobacco products in Oregon and protect the. Protect our kids from nicotine addiction. Urge lawmakers to Pass Senate Bill 702A. Take action at flavorshookoregonkids.org paid for by the Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids Action Fund.

[Stephen Rinella]

Hi, Zoe Saldana. Welcome to T Mobile. Here's your new iPhone 16 Pro on us.

[Unknown]

Thanks. And here's my old phone to trade in.

[Stephen Rinella]

You don't need to trade in when you switch to T Mobile. We'll give you a new iPhone 16 Pro. Plus we'll help you pay off your old Phone up to 800 bucks and you still get to keep it.

[Unknown]

There's always a trade in.

[Stephen Rinella]

Not right now. @ T Mobile.

[Unknown]

I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma.

[Stephen Rinella]

That's okay.

[Unknown]

I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer. It's lavender.

[Stephen Rinella]

I'm good.

[Dan Flores]

Seriously.

[Unknown]

Let me check this pocket. Oh, mints.

[Stephen Rinella]

Really, I'm fine.

[Unknown]

Oh, I have raisins.

[Baron Davis]

I'm a mom.

[Unknown]

Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car.

[Dan Flores]

It's our best iPhone offer ever. Switch to T Mobile. Get a new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple Apple Intelligence on us. No trade in needed. We'll even pay off your phone up to 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits new line 100 plus a month on experience beyond finance agreement 999.99 and qualifying ported for well qualified plus tax and ten dollar connection charge payout via virtual prepaid card allow 15 days credits end in balance due if you pay off early or cancel CT mobile.com the.

[Unknown]

American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. Hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores and brought to you by Velvet Buck, this podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best selling author and Meat Eater founder Stephen Rinella.

[Draymond Green]

Okay, correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here.

[Dan Flores]

And I'll say it seems like the.

[Draymond Green]

Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves.

[Unknown]

So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.

[Dan Flores]

Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Unknown]

You say you never give in to a meltdown and never fill your feed with kid photos. You say you'd never put a pacifier in your mouth to clean it. And never let them run wild through the grocery store. So when you say you'd never let them get into a car without you there. No, it can happen. One in four hot car deaths happen when a kid gets into an unlocked car and can't get out. Never happens before you leave the car. Always stop. Look lock Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council Clockwork.

[Draymond Green]

You know what I'm saying? I knew what times he was gonna be down. It's gonna be early morning when he doing this. You know what time, how early he gets to the game. You know when he gonna he already gonna be there. Shoot around when we get there. You know he gonna be at the gym before the first bus get there, you know, he getting a massage. Like, I still remember that routine because I saw it so much every single day, and that was the difference I saw. And obviously that translates to the court just off him just playing games and getting older and just being better and being, you know, one of the greatest players. And his game just matured. He just. Everything got better. And obviously as he. The second time around, he shot the ball a whole lot better. I think that's a. That's one of the biggest things that, you know, that. That part of his game kept growing and obviously got to the point where yet. But just the maturity in this game, I'll say just out the decision making, just being more sharper, just understanding spots on how to go get a bucket when he wanted to. I think he's always been a great feel for the game, and I think just the development on the. Just going to get a bucket, you know, understand, you know, you. You. You understand the game, you know, you know, guys that I can go get a bucket when I want to go get a bucket. And, you know, some guys ain't really about that life, so it just depends on how they feel, on how they going that day, on how aggressive they gonna be. You know, I thought, you know, so I thought the, the. That part of the game. Well, he needed to go get a bucket. He knew how to get to his spots and get an efficient shot that he knew he can make.

[Zoe Saldana]

No, that's fire, man. Man, I appreciate you for coming on the show, bro. Obviously want to wish you happy Father's Day.

[Draymond Green]

Absolutely. Signing you down, man. It's crazy. I was laying down today, and my wife is the house. I saw that aggressive, man. Father's Day Sunday, she said, yeah, fool. And I got seven kids. I should know that.

[Zoe Saldana]

Hey, by the way, I saw Mace got a few offers, huh?

[Draymond Green]

Yeah, he did, man. He balling. Yeah, he ballin' man. Nah, he balled a man about six, three, six fold, you know, point guard, handling that thing. Got a good body. Nah, he gonna be straight. And my. And my other son is a freshman with me, so I got. Yeah, yeah, but you know, my other one, the one you talking about, I ain't gonna see him. He getting some offers. So DePaul just called about in the day, so he got Washington, he got Louisiana. He probably New Mexico State, about 10 offers now, so. Been proud of, man. Hey, man, I'm a, you know, I'm a proud dad, man. That's a proud dad. Just got back from the NBA. Taiwan at Hunted Camp with him. And, man, it's a blessing, man. I got one of my son that's on my staff. My oldest son is one of my assistant coaches, you know, coaching my son. He a freshman. Then I got this. I'm about to be a senior in high school. They're gonna be able to pick wherever he want to go, man. I bet I. I was in the NBA top 100 camp. My one as assistant code was in that camp. My freshman that was in the camp last year, he so, man, I'm blessed, man. Like, I don't have no complaints, dog. I got seven boys, man. So I get to, you know, do this thing over and over again. That's why I'm in coaching, man, just to. I love what I do, man. I love what I do. I love where I'm at. I appreciate. I appreciate you guys, like, you know, guys like yourself, man, that, you know, the friendships that I created over my life, man. And I just sit back, man. I. I don't do much, man. You know, I just love what I do. I coach, be around my kids, man. Sit on my acres, you know, in Mississippi. Post it up, man.

[Zoe Saldana]

I love it, man. That's incredible, bro. I'm happy for you. I was rooting like hell for y' all to get that one last game and get in there.

[Draymond Green]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

But it's coming this year.

[Draymond Green]

It's definitely God speed, man. Everything don't have, you know, everything happened for a reason. There's a reason. Ain't win not part.

[Zoe Saldana]

But it's coming. It's definitely. I appreciate you, brother.

[Draymond Green]

Thank you. I appreciate you.

[Zoe Saldana]

I just want a mission again, showing me how to take care of guys that come after me, you know what I'm saying? Like, what you did for me, I could never thank you enough. It showed me. It just showed me more, you know what I'm saying? It showed me what it could become for me. And then it also showed me what it need to look like for the guys that come after me. And you ain't know me from a can of paint, you know what I'm saying? Like, I ain't grow up with somebody you brought up or in your neighborhood. You ain't know me from a can of pain. You just saw a young dude in the NBA trying to make it. And to take me in like that, I'll never forget it. And I appreciate it. And we're going to have some more conversations about Jackson State, because, you know, I'm a proud Michigan State donor.

[Draymond Green]

No doubt. You already know I'm roll Tide all day.

[Zoe Saldana]

I'm a proud Michigan State donor, but, you know, I got a lot of respect for what you're doing, and just hearing that meant a lot to me. So I hope someone out there heard what I heard and feel how I feel and wanna bring or help, you know what I'm saying?

[Draymond Green]

Exactly.

[Zoe Saldana]

It's hard to carry it off, but just to offer a helping hand. So we'll be chopping it up about that for sure.

[Draymond Green]

I appreciate that. I appreciate it, Doc, man. It's all love, man. Love you, man. Appreciate you, man. Keep doing what you're doing, dog.

[Zoe Saldana]

Appreciate you coming on.

[Draymond Green]

All right, boy.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yes, sir. To the rest of y' all out there, that's a wrap from this episode of the Draymond Green Show. We just had a legend on here, but, like, I. Even more than legend, somebody who cared about the next guys because that's what keep this thing going is. You know, you see the finished product, but you don't see the people going through it. And the people that's offering a helping hand to vets, like vets is a missing thing in this league today, and I am a product of great vets. Jermaine o' Neal, David Lee, Andrew Bogut, Carl Landry, Richard Jefferson, Mo Williams. The guy who took me on this wing, I ain't play with, you know, I'm a product of that. So I always had the utmost appreciation for guys like that, and I always try to be that guy to the guys that come after me. And hopefully I can help like Mo helped me, and we can continue this thing rolling so the fans get what they want. Till next time. That's a wrap from this episode of the Draymond Green show with Baron Davis. We'll see him next time. Peace.

[Baron Davis]

Nearly 90% of kids who vape say flavors are why they do it.

[Mo Williams]

A lot of the flavors that I've heard are like peach, mango, watermelon. It makes it seem, like, more childlike and innocent. Oh, I tried this once. It won't be that much of a problem. But then eventually, it becomes a problem.

[Baron Davis]

It's time to restrict the sale of flavored tobacco products in Oregon and protect our kids from nicotine addiction. Urge lawmakers to Pass Senate Bill 702A. Take action at flavorshookoregonkids.org paid for by the Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids Action Fund.

[Zoe Saldana]

Okay. Have you heard about this? Last year, Degree changed the formula for their Cool Rush deodorant. Their fans rebelled and wanted the old Sim back. And Degree listened. That doesn't happen often. They admitted that they effed up and are bringing the original Cool Rush scent.

[Draymond Green]

Back and it's exactly how you remember it.

[Zoe Saldana]

Cool, crisp and fresh. There's a reason it's the number one Manzani Purse Sprint and it's back in Walmart, Target and other stores for under $4. So try it and see what the fuss is about. Head to your local stores to try the OG Cool Rush for yourself.

[Unknown]

Why is a soap opera Western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6, where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.

[Dan Flores]

Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Zoe Saldana]

I'm Clayton English.

[Draymond Green]

I'm Greg Lodd and this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast.

[Dan Flores]

Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug, drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports.

[Draymond Green]

It's kind of star studded a little bit, man.

[Dan Flores]

We met them at their homes, we met them at the recording studios. Stories matter and it brings a face to it.

[Draymond Green]

It makes it real. It really does.

[Dan Flores]

It makes it real.

[Zoe Saldana]

Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs Podcast, Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Draymond Green]

This is an iHeart podcast.