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- [00:00]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up everyone?
- [00:01]
Daniel Jeremiah
It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of spring, Daniel Jeremiah.
- [00:06]
Greg Rosenthal
He requires me to say that we're.
- [00:08]
Daniel Jeremiah
Going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents starting on March 6th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:31]
Julie Sterbinks
What's up everyone? Julie Swerbinks here along with former NHL player Nate Thompson.
- [00:36]
Greg Rosenthal
We're doing a new podcast together. Here we go.
- [00:38]
Julie Sterbinks
The name Energy Line with Nate and jsb.
- [00:42]
Greg Rosenthal
Each week we'll get together and talk about hockey life. All topics are fair game, right?
- [00:47]
Julie Sterbinks
Exactly. And you'll never know who will drop by to join us.
- [00:51]
Greg Rosenthal
Julia's pretty well connected. She has text threads going that you wouldn't believe.
- [00:55]
Julie Sterbinks
Listen to Energy Line with Nate and jsb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Mel Reid, LPGA Tour winner and six time Ladies European Tour winner and Kyra K. Dixon, NBC Sports reporter and host. And we've got new podcast Quiet Please with Mel and Kira. We are bringing you spicy takes on sports and pop culture. Some interviews with incredible people who have figured out how to make golf their superpower. An iHeart wins sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on iHeartrad app or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, Founding Partner of I Heart Women's Sports. We all have a moment that splits us wide open. On my new podcast Wide Open with Ashlyn Harris, I'll sit down with trailblazers from sports, music, fashion, entertainment and politics to explore their toughest moments and the incredible comebacks that followed. Listen to Wide Open with Ashlyn Harris, an iHeart women's sports production on the iHeartradio app, Ashley Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by E L F Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.
- [02:13]
Daniel Jeremiah
Welcome to the favorites the podcast presented by Beth365. We are part of the Volume Podcast Network. I am Chad Millman of the Action Network. We are live from our Tommy John Home studios. I'm joined as always by my co host, my companion, my compadre, my BFF Professional Better Simon Hunter. Hello Simon.
- [02:32]
Nate Thompson
Chad. What's going on brother?
- [02:34]
Daniel Jeremiah
Listen I feel like I'm more of a interested student in the glorious, colorful, exciting past that is betting and the sports betting world. It's how I got into it, right? Like I was never better first writer second. I was writer first who loved the psychology. I loved the history. I love the story of the mob. I love sort of the characters who populate the world of sports betting. And so, you know, we had. Mitchell had come up with this great idea a few weeks ago where he did some great old gambling stories and some of which he stole from an excellent book called Roll the Bones. And today we are joined by the author of Roll the Bones, a longtime professor at UNLV University Nevada, Las Vegas, the nation's preeminent gambling historian. Roll the Bones, we know, is Matt's favorite book. So imagine Matt's delight when we found out our author and our guest has a brand new book that just came out in January called Something for your, the History of Las Vegas Casinos, available now wherever books are sold. He's someone I've known for years. He was a regular and patient source when I would head out to Vegas during my ESPN days and was out there for a variety of stories. Welcome to the show. Dave Schwartz.
- [04:20]
Greg Rosenthal
Thanks for having me, Chad. Thanks for having me.
- [04:23]
Daniel Jeremiah
Listen, your book has thrown Matt Mitchell for a loop. He can't believe this book exists. He can't believe it tells every story that he's been dying to know for years. Can you please, for Matt Mitchell's sake and for the sake of our listeners who are all avid interested parties in betting, how did you end up doing this?
- [04:48]
Greg Rosenthal
Well, I grew up in Atlantic City, New Jersey, just around the time that they legalized gambling. So one of my earliest memories was them blowing up the old hotels and building casinos. So as a kid, I was really curious, like, why do people gamble in casinos? Why are they blowing up all the old hotels? And stuff like that. So when I went to grad school, I decided to write a dissertation on that, and that started me on the road to studying the history of gambling and casinos.
- [05:13]
Daniel Jeremiah
And so you wrote Roll the Bones. You wrote something for your money, which just came out. Both of them are packed with deliciously colorful stories about not just sort of the recent history of betting, but the entire history of, of betting. Gambling is so intertwined with the history of America, right from lotteries being how we paid for the American Revolution. Lotteries were how Harvard and Yale were funded and founded. It is core to the American experience. All that said, what were your favorite stories when researching these books.
- [06:07]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah, you know, it's kind of interesting. One fun story. It just shows how far we've come politically and in a lot of ways. So in the 1828 election, which was a rematch of Andrew Jackson against John Quincy Adams, one of the scandals was that John Quincy Adams allegedly had bought a billiards table for the White House. And so there is an outrage that how dare he buy gambling equipment with public money. Ironic, because Andrew Jackson was a huge degenerate gambler. Just like absolutely would love to bet on horses. Just totally sick, sick gambler. So it's kind of funny that they accused the New England John Quincy Adams, the intellectual, being a gambler. They tried to do some spin. And these days, again, the president or the candidate wouldn't speak for themselves. They would have people speak for them. So they tried to do some spin and said, well, you know, he didn't really buy it. He doesn't gamble. He just has it so that the visiting aristocrats have something to do. And like, now you're an aristocrat, now you're better than us. So trying to make it better made it worse. And it was one of those things, you know, probably public frustration over the banking system. All those issues were the things that probably really got Jackson in the White House. But, you know, this was a little part of it. So I think that's fascinating that gambling had a. Had a role in this very pivotal election.
- [07:29]
Daniel Jeremiah
1828 As a reminder, the Favorites podcast is presented by bet365 and now new bet365. Customers get $150 in bonus bets when you bet $5. Sign up using promo code. Favorites deposit $10. Place the bet for $5 to get $150 in bonus bets. Those bonus bets can be used on spreads, totals, player props, futures and more. Whatever the moment, it's Never ordinary. At bet365 must be 21 or older and present in Arizona, Colorado, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, North Carolina, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia or 18 and older in Kentucky. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or 1-800-BITS OFF in Iowa. Terms, conditions, restrictions apply. Also reminder, folks officially RSVP for our free favorites live show event in Chicago. Elite Eight March Madness game Saturday, March 29th. We're going to Joe's Bar on Weed street, more popularly known as Joe's on Weed. Free event, free drinks, free live show me Simon, some other guests RSVP to reserve your spot, follow the link in this episode's description or just Google Favorites Podcast event Chicago and The RSVP site. Pop right up. Rsvp, Free drinks, free fun. Me and Simon hanging out with all of you. Listen, when you were thinking about this as a field of study or thinking about what your first book was going to be, next book was going to be how you're teaching gambling as a professor, how do you frame the idea of risk and gambling into the evolution of the country that we see today?
- [09:28]
Greg Rosenthal
Well, really is an essential part. And if you look at it, you know, America, United States, it really is a place of second chances. And that means that things didn't go well, your first chance. So there is this idea that the United States is just tolerant of risk and that's how things happen. And sometimes it goes really well, sometimes it doesn't so go so great. But there's always another shot matter.
- [09:53]
Daniel Jeremiah
Simon. I don't want to monopolize. If one of you want to jump in, I know, Matt, you've got a lot of questions.
- [09:59]
Nate Thompson
I'll let Matt fly.
- [10:01]
Dave Schwartz
Dave, one of my favorite anecdotes from Roll the Bones is about William Penn. Is it true that the land that would become the state of Pennsylvania was potentially the. The repayment of a. Of a royal debt?
- [10:20]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah, you know, that is the story. Obviously I wasn't there, so when, when he signed that marker, but William Penn. So William Penn was a Quaker leader. Anybody from Philly, you know, I went to school in Philly, so the statue of Billy Penn. So he was a Quaker. Quakers were not the most popular group in England at the time. And somehow he got this grant for Pennsylvania, which is a really lucrative part of what would become the colonies and later the US and the story was Sir William Penn. William Penn, the Quaker's father, was a gambling buddy of King Charles ii. And when Sir William Penn died, Charles II owed him a lot of money. And basically on his deathbed said, just take care of my son and we're good. And supposedly that's where it came from. So that's how the Quakers ended up with Penns. That's how we get to the Eagles, I guess.
- [11:15]
Dave Schwartz
And that's the most remarkable thing about this book. That's like 55 words in this book. And then you just move on to 700 other fascinating things. It really is a remarkable piece of literature.
- [11:29]
Daniel Jeremiah
Do we have any idea what Charles II and William Penn were gambling?
- [11:37]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah, probably Farrow. Faro, that was the popular game back then, so probably farrow. But it could also been a number of card games. You know, not poker, because that wasn't invented yet, but Number of. There. There are a number of earlier bidding card games that would eventually kind of evolve into poker.
- [11:55]
Nate Thompson
And the king had a marker. Like, how did.
- [11:57]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah, well, not literally. That's just my gambling again. Like, having worked in the casino industry, you kind of use the terminology basically as a gambling debt. Not legally collectible, but morally collectible. And that's the thing about gamblers, that they. They rather pay the gambling debt to prove that they're good for it than not. So, yeah, Charles II was good for it in the end. And Pennsylvania is the proof.
- [12:20]
Daniel Jeremiah
Well, Simon, as a Philly adjacent native, this is in your territory. It is part of your history now to know that you are doing the right thing in your community by gambling as much as you possibly can.
- [12:36]
Nate Thompson
And it's crazy to think everything gets birthed from the pen name Penn Medicine. I mean, obviously, like you just talked about, our Capitol building has William Penn standing on the top of it. And it's pretty insane to think, not that Philadelphia is just known for betting, but at its core. I mean, I can't tell you how many street bookies I knew Chad growing up, where every. Every neighborhood, every block has a different guy. And it's starting to make more sense when you really think about the state and how it's founded and the. The people that live there and. Because that was probably, I wouldn't say common knowledge right back then, but people must have known. I mean, everyone just talks. Everyone's at everyone's business. This is before, obviously, newspapers, everything like that. I mean, the word must have spread around town about how Pennsylvania got birthed. Am I assuming that right?
- [13:20]
Greg Rosenthal
Oh, yeah. And I think people knew how big, you know, Charles the Second was into a lot of that. He spent a lot of time in exile in France. The French then were the notorious gambler, so kind of picked up that habit. And it's kind of interesting, too, when you look at people who don't like gambling, which there are people for a while in England, they said, well, this isn't a genuine English hobby. It's a French perversion that came into England. So it's kind of funny how that is spun, you know, and we see that happen throughout history.
- [13:49]
Daniel Jeremiah
Well, look, you must have seen this through many stages in your research, whether it was, you know, England in the 1600s to sports betting and that being the third rail of gambling. I remember sitting with you in the UNLV library and I think in the building where your department is, and we were talking about Delaware in New Jersey and how Delaware at the time had legalized. New Jersey had just filed suit to get passed by the Professional Amateur Sports Protection act, overturned. And you use the phrase sports betting is the third rail of all the betting types. Lottery, legal, poker, legal casinos, Native American casinos, all of that. What do you think finally turned in your point of view, from your very deep knowledge and base of perspective, what do you think finally turned for sports betting?
- [14:52]
Greg Rosenthal
Well, it's interesting because if you look back in the 1950s when people in the government were researching, well, what is gambling and how's it happening? It was, it was mostly illegal. And I remember, I think it might have been something that came out of New York City or somewhere. But this government study said, you know, the numbers, which was the illegal lotteries and policy, like that's the worst, it's the most exploitative sports betting. At least better has a chance, but this is just the worst. And 10 years later, what did states legalize? Lotteries. And at the time, there's a lot of debate, well, if we were to legalize sports betting, what happens if the betters get lucky? Now we owe money. So governments didn't want to do it because they didn't want to take on that liability. What happened was the private casino companies, basically, because they have the casino itself to offset that, and they can use the sports betting to draw people in in the old model. And the new model is just another revenue source because it's online. You know, basically, once they got behind it, things shifted. But before that, states weren't really eager to legalize it because, you know, I mean, just imagine what it would be like if state of New Jersey or Pennsylvania or anyone was running. Lee, you know, running a sports book would be very different.
- [16:05]
Daniel Jeremiah
Wait a second, that's. I had no idea that was the case. My understanding, and I didn't do any research on this, I just sort of assumed it.
- [16:13]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah.
- [16:14]
Daniel Jeremiah
Was that sports betting never really got traction because of moral issues. And you're saying it had nothing to do with it. It was really about the fear that they would all of a sudden be on the hook for customer friendly outcomes, as they call them today, and have to pay out. And all of a sudden, instead of having a surplus, they've got a debt.
- [16:38]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah, well, I think that. And again, I'm not in their mind, so I wasn't there back then. I don't know what they did. But if we look at it, look at the different forms of gambling, most states legalize lotteries. First, highest margin, you know, then went into casinos. Ah, they can Tax it, they can make decent money. Sports betting was last because that has the narrowest margin. And again, you know, you, you don't have that. It's not as dependable. So when they're doing it for budgetary reasons, like, okay, we're going to generate, with a lottery, we can generate this much money a year to fund the schools. Sports betting, you know, not that stable. So I don't think there's a lot of people rushing to legalize it back then.
- [17:17]
Daniel Jeremiah
Hmm. It's always about the money. It's never about the morals. Dave Simon Listeners are uncomfortable in their daily lives. They lack the confidence to achieve greatness. What they ask us can they do? How can they transform their lives for the better? What tools do they lack? The good news is that everything you need is just a click away. One click to tommyjohn.com favorites to transport you to a world of comfort, confidence and transformative change. That's because our beloved sponsor Tommy John offers flexible, breathable, high performance comfort on top quality underwear and casual essentials, delivering the confidence you need. Unleash your fullest potential. And with a special sale for our listeners, ascending to a higher plane of existence just got even easier. Simon, why will you be wearing more Tommy John in 2025?
- [18:13]
Nate Thompson
Because comfort is king.
- [18:14]
Daniel Jeremiah
Chad Right now you can shop tommyjohn.com favorites and get 25% off your first order. Save 25% at tommyjohn.com favorites that's tommyjohn.com favorites Airport stress.
- [18:27]
Julie Sterbinks
Step into relaxation with the platinum card and get that wait, am I famous Treatment. Enjoy complimentary access to over 1400 airport lounges with you, the American Express Global lounge collection and the platinum card. Learn more@americanexpress.com Explore Platinum Terms apply It's Julie Stewart Banks. I'm doing a new podcast from iHeart Podcasts and the National Hockey League and I'm paired up with one of my favorite players, the always quotable Nate Thompson.
- [18:52]
Greg Rosenthal
I wore nine NHL sweaters and I have story after story to share. And believe it or not, I have plenty to say and not just about hockey.
- [18:59]
Julie Sterbinks
Believe me, he does Energy line with Nate and JS is the name of the podcast and it's going to be, well, it's going to be quite the ride. We're officially linemates. Nate. We're the energy line.
- [19:11]
Greg Rosenthal
We'll have plenty of folks join us, current players, some of my former teammates, hall of famers, and wait to see some of the connections that Julie has. She has quite the Rolodex.
- [19:20]
Julie Sterbinks
Okay, we'll Lean into Nate's playing experience and tap into our interests away from hockey and try to do what energy lines are supposed to to do. Provide an emotional boost. How do you feel about all that, Nate?
- [19:32]
Greg Rosenthal
I'm vibing Julie. I'm ready to roll.
- [19:35]
Julie Sterbinks
Listen to Energy Line with Nate and jsb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Mel Reed, LPGA Tour winner and six time Ladies European Tour winner and Kira K. Dixon, NBC Sports reporter and host. You forgot to say all my Miss America, by the way. And we've got Nipole Podcast. Quiet Please With Mel and Kira. We are bringing you spicy takes on sports and pop culture, some golf haps and interviews with incredible people who have figured out how to make golf their superpower or just people we like. Plus tales from the road and everything in between. By the way, golf isn't just for the dads, Brads and chads. Yeah, it's actually life's cheat code and we're not going to be quiet about it on or off the course. We're bringing on some of our friends like Michelle We, Heather McMahon, Amanda Baliotis. So if you want to keep up with us and here is yap, tune into our new podcast Listen to Quiet Please with Mel and Kira, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey you guys, I'm Katherine Legg. I'm a racing driver who's literally driven everything with four wheels across the planet. And I've got a new podcast. It's called Throttle Therapy. This season I'm gearing up to make history, competing in some of the world's most notorious racing events, starting at the Indy 500. Join me as I travel from racetrack to racetrack in my quest to continue a memorable career in racing. I'm also going to bring you inside stories with legends of sports, new faces from the next generation of auto racing, and conversations with the people who supported me throughout my career. We'll be getting into everything from karting to nascar, even Formula one. Whether you dream about being a pro athlete or an astronaut, we're talking about what it takes to make it. Listen to Throttle Therapy with Katherine Legge, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.
- [21:44]
Daniel Jeremiah
You know, in your book, Dave, you wrote a little bit about the Kefauver hearings. For those who don't know, I'll say it quickly so I can set up the question. In the early 1950s, Estes Kefauver, who was a senator from Tennessee, very ambitious guy. There was a lot of consternation within communities, especially big cities, about the influence of organized crime. And so he set up this two years of investigations, going city to city on a tour where he had subpoenaed the organized crime bosses, and they were being forced to testify about their business and everything that was going on. To me, one of the biggest things that came out of it was the realization by the public that sports betting was the biggest revenue driver for organized crime. And to me, Dave, I don't know if you have studied and seen differently. That felt like a death blow for sports betting. That felt like a fun thing people did in the community to being sort of a nefarious, dangerous thing. And it changed that business's trajectory.
- [22:50]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah, because if you look at the history of illegal gambling, right back in the 20s, when we know organized crime was doing a lot of stuff, you would see if you go back in the newspaper archives, will talk about local rackets, boss. So there was like the Brooklyn rackets and the waterfront rackets and the Newark rackets and the Philly rackets. It was all local. Okay, what happens in 1950 and 51? The Keef offer is okay, he needs an issue. He wants to be president. He needs an issue. Kind of went into antitrust stuff, but that didn't excite people. McCarthy had already taken anti communism, so that's gone well. What about gambling? Well, wait, the local gambling you're doing with your bookie, that's actually part of this national or even international crime syndicate. So it's a national issue. So Congress has jurisdiction because it crosses state lines. And that's where it really shifted. That's where you had the idea of the Mafia as a national organization or even international organization. Before that, it was all local. And again, it's kind of fun to go back in the archives and see when they start using that language. So, yeah, it did change the narrative because originally people said, well, yeah, I'm just putting down a $2 bet. And there's a book in the archives called a $2 bet means murder. Wow. And it's trying to tell people, yeah, your harmless sports betting is actually funding organized crime. And now that did shift the narrative. You're absolutely right.
- [24:11]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah. There's nothing like a complete and total extraction from your $2 bet to that being the reason why the person down the street is getting knocked off.
- [24:19]
Dave Schwartz
I mean, I feel like I've been killed by a small bet before. It's done me that much harm. That makes.
- [24:24]
Daniel Jeremiah
That makes sense.
- [24:27]
Dave Schwartz
One of my kind of favorite themes of the. Of both your books. But there's so much. There's so much gambling embroiled in parts of American history and American culture and really international world history going back hundreds of years. But one of my favorite anecdotes was that in the middle of the 19th century, the first major regulatory act in congressional history. So Congress had been around for like, whatever, 80 years related to boiler construction and steamboat licensing. Could you explain why that was related to gambling?
- [25:09]
Greg Rosenthal
Okay, so we all know this is in the golden age of steamboats, all that fun stuff. Also, people use steamboats. They became gambling tools. People both gambled on them, you know, playing all kinds of games, especially poker. But also also people would bet which steamboat was going to get there first. The captains were cut in on it. So they would have an incentive. And they found that captains and the crew would push the steamship so hard that boilers exploded. And they said, this is too much risk. We've got to cut back on this. So it is amazing how something like that. And it also shows how universal that gambling gene is where literally the vessel you're riding on with the high pressure steam that is deadly, that, you know, has killed people before, you're still going to overload it just to get that edge. Edge that is wild.
- [25:57]
Dave Schwartz
It's crazy that you report that in one year, 500 people died from this. And Congress is like, holy shit, guys. You keep blowing up your own passengers because. Because you can't stop racing your steamboats. We are going to make our first ever regulatory action. It's hilarious. And obviously, you know a tremendous amount about Las Vegas and its history, and we'll dive into that shortly. Yeah, but those steamboats obviously related to the big business of New Orleans. Could you explain briefly, you know, kind of how important New Orleans was to the development of American gambling? Pre Las Vegas?
- [26:35]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah. I mean, New Orleans was huge. It was really America's first gambling capital. Without a doubt. You had the French, you had the Spanish, you had Native Americans, you had African cultures coming in there. So you also had a lot of people, a lot of money. It was a thriving capital port. So it really is where American. If people in America wanted to Gamble. Most gambling was happening there. They experimented with legal gambling houses really early on in the 19th century. The games of poker and crafts were both. Both born in New Orleans or near New Orleans. So really, New Orleans in the 19th century was the capital of gambling in America, without a doubt.
- [27:11]
Dave Schwartz
Incredible.
- [27:12]
Nate Thompson
Yeah, I just want to piggyback off that. I've thought a lot about this and, you know, gambling, to me, it's a really important part of my life. And, you know, you seem like someone that knows all about. I mean, every little detail, every story and, you know, a story I love, that I read a long time ago is about Native Americans didn't have a word for lie, but they did have a word for bet. And I always thought that's such a human thing, like, at our core. I mean, think of the earliest man which said was, buddy, I bet you I can race you home and beat you in a race. Or I can kill that animal before you can kill it. Like a little bet like that. What. What is your discovery of the earliest bets ever written or made in human history?
- [27:48]
Greg Rosenthal
Well, it goes way. It goes back really far. I've got another layer of this, you know. So in the early. Basically, for a lot of human history, people weren't living in settlements, the first settlements. You know, we find evidence of gambling, you know, primitive dice, things like that. And kind of the funny thing is, so, like, if we would say, and I'm not saying this is the absolute year, but if we say the earliest dice were 10,000 years old, the earliest cheating dice, crooked dice, are like 9,999 years old. So cheating was also part of it a long ways away. And it's kind of funny. Like, one of the more poignant stories is the. When Mount Vesuvius erupted and Pompeii was engulfed in ash, you know, in the taverns, you know, there was this one thing where it was a gambling table and they had. The guy's debts were like, just scratched up on the wall. And they're just thinking like, suddenly there's all the ash and the lava coming down, and this guy's last thing is like, oh, man, I'm down. And that. And then it. And then he's like, I'm great.
- [28:50]
Dave Schwartz
I'm off the hook.
- [28:52]
Daniel Jeremiah
That's. I. I was actually thinking the guy who won is like, are you freaking kidding me? I finally hit a streak and now we're all going under. This is ridiculous.
- [29:02]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah, really bad beat.
- [29:03]
Dave Schwartz
Volcanic. Bad beat for sure.
- [29:05]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah, yeah, volcanic. So, yeah, can't get worse than that. Can't get worse than that.
- [29:09]
Daniel Jeremiah
Oh, Matt Mitchell, that was good.
- [29:12]
Dave Schwartz
One thing I wanted to also point out from your book is you have this recurring theme which I really enjoyed. Kind of to Simon's point of you go back to the earliest bets made in humankind, but all the way up to the present day, you keep describing societies that are getting more and more advanced. Gambling exists because it's people are congregating then gambling is frowned upon, that it is outlawed and that it is found to be totally irrepressible and that it is eventually tolerated or regulated, but that it happens in every corner of the world over and over and over again for thousands of years. So looking back at the history of gambling kind of overall and maybe Las Vegas specifically, our audience is mostly sports bettors. Like what are the lessons that, that our audience can, can take away?
- [30:00]
Greg Rosenthal
Well, it's basically, I mean there's a, there's a couple of them. First of all, people have always gambled. I mean obviously not everybody, but a lot of people have always gambled. But things do go in cycles. And there's no reason to think that people are going to keep on betting the way they're betting right now. You know, because if we look back, just looking at casinos in Vegas in the 60s and we're just going to go back 60 years, which is not that much time histor historically but like 60s, they're mostly playing craps. Blackjack is just starting to get big because skill play is just starting to get popular, but it's still mostly craps. There's maybe a couple dozen slot machines. It's not that big a deal go. And the casinos are a lot smaller. Go to the 90s. Giant air conditioned slot machine houses, just total slot machines. But the slot machines look really different than they are today. They're mostly steppers, couple of video machines, but mostly steppers versus today. Less focus in the gambling, more focus in everything else. You've got electronic table games, you've got all kinds of things evolving, you know, and that's, and, and think about how sports betting has changed too with the advent of technology. And now you don't have to go to the bookie, bookies in your phone. So there's just a lot of that going on. And I think my other lesson is, you know, they say the house always wins, usually the house does, but when it does and I this might be kind of ominous for sports betting. You know, when the house doesn't win, the house tends to change the rules. So people find something, find an exploit they will change the rules to prevent that because the house has to win, otherwise they don't stay in business.
- [31:34]
Dave Schwartz
Oh, for sure. That's another recurring theme throughout. Throughout history.
- [31:38]
Daniel Jeremiah
Well, that's also why the States didn't want to be in that business. Right. They worried that they all of a sudden would have a season where they owe money instead of taking in money. And what do you do with, you know, that hole in the budget, sports betting, specifically? Why do you think? I guess from your point of view, you said it'll change. How is it different than what you thought it would be when it was legalized, even in these past, say, seven years?
- [32:13]
Greg Rosenthal
Well, it's really interesting because if you look at the history of sports betting in Nevada, traditionally, it was maybe, and I'm saying from the 80s onward, when you had the advent of casinos being in sports betting, it was maybe 1% of total Nevada gaming revenue. Maybe 1%. You know, then in the early 2010s, we get up to 2% and kind of into 3%. So it really is something in Nevada. It really is an amenity to bring people in. And the whole idea that they had is I don't want my hot blackjack player leaving to go someplace else to place a bet. So I'm going to have this here, even if it doesn't make money. And, you know, every slot manager in the world is saying, if I had that space that the sports book has or the poker room has, I could make the revenue to make in a year, I could make in a month, you know, and that. And like, true. But then they're going to leave to go betting someplace else, and they're going to gamble there. So they really did do it as amenity. What we've seen in the past 10 years or even less is the emergence of sports betting as a revenue source on its own through online and mobile, which is something we have not seen in Nevada before. So that's totally different. And it did way back when, back in 2010, when I was trying to extrapolate, well, how big of a market is it? Well, if it's 2%, it'll be this. And it turned out to be a lot bigger than that because behaviors changed. So that's just proof that it happens.
- [33:39]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah. I remember when I first started going out to Vegas and I was working on the odds and I would get the numbers from the Nevada Gaming Control Board of the total handle and then the hold for these sports books. And I think, correct me if I'm wrong, late 90s, early 2000s. It would be like 6 million a year in total revenue for every sports book in the state of Nevada. I'm like, why the fuck am I writing this book? Because this thing doesn't matter at all. We thought it was a big deal, and it means nothing within the overall scheme of what really is important in the state of Nevada. But it has always. Sports betting, since really the state of Nevada legalized it in the 70s, I think, has had this outsized impact on the rest of the industry in terms of not its importance, but a little bit of its glamour. Would you say that?
- [34:43]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah, and obviously there was a lot more illegal betting going on back then, which I don't think we even for a while the FBI estimated it. Then at some point, they just kind of gave up. I learned that when I was researching another book, Cutting the Wire, which was about online gaming, gambling prohibition. So it's kind of interesting to see how they eventually said, we don't know how much illegal gambling, legal sports betting, there's going on. We know it's big. So that's. That's kind of the. Yeah, that's kind of where that is. But Nevada did, you know, originally, yeah, they did view as an amenity, but now it's becoming a revenue source in its own right.
- [35:19]
Dave Schwartz
This is a sloppily worded question, so apologies, but you could describe, let's say, a thousand years of betting activity across the whole world, right? Yeah, all of them. All of the betting activity in every form, always involved other human parties and almost always leaving your home. And now, only in the last decade, you no longer need both of those things. How enormous of a change is that in the. From a cultural standpoint to, like, what betting is and how intrinsically human the activity is?
- [35:57]
Greg Rosenthal
It's a big change, and it's one that's probably about five or six hundred years in the making to be a little, little, little, Little dramatic there. So if we think back, you know, to the dawn of gambling, as we were saying, like, yeah, can I throw this, you know, rock farther than you? Can I catch this animal for you? You know, that sort of thing, like Simon was saying. Yeah, that is personal. Oh, my horse is faster than your horse. All right. Well, I don't know, but my buddy's horse is faster than your buddy's horse. Okay, now we're doing that. You know, my alma mater can beat your alma mater in football. Okay. You know, my. My favorite team can be your team. It was very personal. You have this shift to mercantile gambling, to commercial gambling that really Happens kind of really gets underway more in the Renaissance, in that period, the Reformation, as you have the rise of sort of capitalism and fun things like that. And it intensifies in America with the invention of the slot machine where, like, if you think about what we did in America, we took gambling and we invented a machine that can gamble more efficiently, which is such an American thing. And that's late 19th century, 1899. This is what they were doing, and this is what Americans are doing. Like railroad will build a bigger railroad. Telegraph. Yeah. All across the country. Gambling. Yeah. Here's a machine that'll do that for you. So and every. Okay. Looking at betting, invention of the telegraph. Hey. Huh. Now we can find out what's happening at racetracks all around the country. We can bet on them here. And that was really the first remote betting. And I argue that was the first remote. Remote entertainment where people would actually be hearing them narrate, like, what's happening in the race? And they're very excited. And people were freaked out then because they're like, oh, my God, why are they jumping and yelling and screaming and stuff, and they're not even at the track.
- [37:54]
Dave Schwartz
I would say it's probably the intrinsic power of the spoken word, Chad.
- [37:58]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah.
- [37:58]
Dave Schwartz
Timeless. It's timeless and evocative. Yeah.
- [38:01]
Greg Rosenthal
Yes. Yeah. And they had no concept of remote entertainment like today, where we'll watch the game and get all excited even though we're not in the stadium. They had no concept. That was how that was born. So it is really interesting. And every technological advancement, people are betting telephones. People are using telephones to bet Internet. People are using the Internet to bet mobile. People are using mobile now. And I don't see any reason why that wouldn't continue.
- [38:27]
Daniel Jeremiah
So which came first? This is a chicken and the egg. Is it gambling as a point of pride or gambling for the sake of gambling? And I think there's a nuanced difference there. But before technology, gambling for the sake of pride, because it had to be more in person and a little bit more about competition versus gambling. That is at scale and is about gambling for gambling sake.
- [39:03]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah. I mean, think about the difference between poker and slot machines. You know, poker. And I know everybody gets bad beats and stuff like that, but it comes down to, I'm better than you and I'm taking your money because of skill for them. Even though. Yeah. I mean, there are bad beats and stuff like that. And, you know, where a slot machines is just, hey, I'm putting my money up and whatever happens, happens. It's out of my hands. So it's, that's that different. You know, people who just want that rush of gambling versus people who want to gamble to show their skill. You know, that is the difference right there. And they probably. You always had a little bit of them. Probably the skill dominated more early on. But since we've gone to more totally random games like slots, a little bit more of the pure gambling.
- [39:44]
Nate Thompson
That's why I love gambling though. Like slots. Now there's an edge. Like I know guys who have quit sports betting than what I do and they literally live in books or outside sports books by the slot machines. And they just watch people on machines and they know timing wise that this machine's hot. Like this is, this machine's ready to pop. Like they just watch them play for hours and they'll wait and jump on their machine. Which is just to me it's like crazy how people just find an edge in every little thing like you talked about. And you know, go back 10,000 years, those fake dice pros, everybody, they're always gonna find an edge. They might call that cheating. To me that's a professional, that's someone trying to find an edge. So I love the breakdown of all these history right now. It's really interesting.
- [40:25]
Daniel Jeremiah
Nate Silver, not to plug another book, but talking about slots, he wrote a book that came out over the summer called on the Edge. And he had a section in there about people who, to your point, Simon, are looking to find the edges in slot machines. I've probably been to Vegas a thousand times, no exaggeration in my life. And I think that I've played slots zero times. Simon, like when you go to the casinos now, do you have any urge to do anything other than walk to the book, make your bet and get out or will you stay and play poker? I know you love poker. Like will you play poker? Will you play blackjack? What is your menu?
- [41:13]
Nate Thompson
That's. That's the running joke to a lot of professional sports betters is it's like basketball players want to be rappers, sports bettors want to be poker players and vice versa. Poker players. I know some really high level poker players I've seen win many tournaments in Vegas, especially in 2014, I mean 2015 when I was really down in Vegas a lot. And I would see these guys win 100k and then just go bet it on like a Lakers first half and lose it. And it's like that's also why these sportsbook exists, right? They're hitting these guys who are great at one thing, but something not great at and they have confidence in when they shouldn't have confidence in. So yeah, for me, slot machines. Chad, I'm with you on that. The only time I've ever hit a slot machine is at the airport in Vegas. Like that's the one time they'll get me. If I got eight hours to kill and I got the itch, I'll hit the slot machines and things like that. But I'm with you. The the big thing for me is blackjack. I told you, if I'm really nervous about a bet I made, I can't watch the game in the sportsbook. I can't be around all the people talking anything like that. I'll go right across the blackjack table. You know, it can be a $20 limit. I don't even care. I'm just there to kill time while watching the game on one of the corner TVs. So that's definitely my nervous jitters. I just like to sit there, play blackjack for a couple hours while watching games.
- [42:20]
Daniel Jeremiah
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- [43:38]
Julie Sterbinks
I'm doing a new podcast from iHeart Podcasts and the National Hockey League and I'm paired up with one of my favorite players, the always quotable Nate Thompson.
- [43:46]
Greg Rosenthal
I wore nine NHL sweaters and I have story after story to share and believe it or not, I have plenty to say. And not just about hockey.
- [43:54]
Julie Sterbinks
Believe me, he does Energy Line with Nate and JSB is the name of the podcast and it's going to be, well, it's going to be quite the ride. We're officially linemates, Nate. We're the Energy Line.
- [44:06]
Greg Rosenthal
We'll have plenty of folks join us, current players, some of my former teammates, hall of Famers, and wait to see some of the connections that Julie has. She appears quite the Rolodex.
- [44:15]
Julie Sterbinks
Okay, we'll lean into Nate's playing experience and tap into our interests away from hockey and try to do what energy lines are supposed to do, provide an emotional boost. How do you feel about all that, Nate?
- [44:27]
Greg Rosenthal
I'm vibing, Julie. I'm ready to roll.
- [44:29]
Julie Sterbinks
Listen to Energy Line with Nate and jsb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Mel Reed, LPGA tour winner and six time ladies European tour winner and Kyra K. Dixon, NBC sports reporter and host. You forgot to say warm and Miss America, by the way. And we've got a new podcast, Quiet Please with Mel and Kira. We are bringing you spicy takes on sports and pop culture, some golf haps and interviews with incredible people who have figured out how to make golf their superpower or just people we like. Plus tales from the road and everything in between. By the way, golf isn't just for the dads, Brads and chads. Yeah, it's actually life's cheat code and we're not going to be quiet about it on or off the course. We're bringing on some of our friends like Michelle, we, Heather McMahon, Amanda Baliotis. So if you want to keep up with us and here is your app, tune into our new podcast, Listen to Quiet Please with Mel and Kira, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, you guys, I'm Katherine Legge. I'm a racing driver who's literally driven everything with four wheels across the planet. And I've got a new podcast. It's called Throttle Therapy. This season, I'm gearing up to make history, competing in some of the world's most notorious racing events, starting at the Indy 500. Join me as I travel from racetrack to racetrack in my quest to continue you a memorable career in racing. I'm also going to bring you inside stories with legends of sports, new faces from the next generation of auto racing. And conversations with the people who've supported me throughout my career. We'll be getting into everything from karting to nascar, even Formula One. Whether you dream about being a pro athlete or an astronaut, we're talking about what it takes to make it. Listen to Throttle Therapy with Katherine Legg, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.
- [46:38]
Greg Rosenthal
It was a moment that should have broken me, but just because of how I was raised and my bullishness and arrogance to want to be great hardened me, it gave me a platform to be so singularly focused on greatness.
- [46:50]
Julie Sterbinks
We all have moments like this. Something happens that's supposed to break us, but it's in these moments that we discover what we're really made of. I promise you, if anyone knows this, it's me. I'm Ashlin Harris.
- [47:05]
Dave Schwartz
Dave, do you.
- [47:06]
Greg Rosenthal
No. Having worked in a casino and having been awake at 4:30 in the morning watching people gamble, kind of kills all the romance.
- [47:13]
Nate Thompson
Yeah.
- [47:14]
Dave Schwartz
What I'm doing at 4:30 is my business, Dave. One day the volcano's coming for me. So that's.
- [47:19]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah.
- [47:20]
Dave Schwartz
You know, it's just.
- [47:21]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah. You see things doing surveillance. It's like, you know, just like. Well, I'm not a part of it. For me, it's like I'm no smarter or luckier than these people, so it's not happening. It's got to be somebody. I don't think it's going to be me.
- [47:34]
Dave Schwartz
Our audience will not be surprised that I absolutely adore gambling. I can think of the two casinos where I was made to move because they were shampooing the carpet while I was playing, which, as you know, like, they're doing that at like 4am Christmas morning or whatever when they're like, no one. No one will be here. We're never gonna make anybody move. I proposed at the roulette wheel of the old Barbary coast. Then Bill's Gambling Hall.
- [48:00]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah. No.
- [48:01]
Dave Schwartz
Yeah.
- [48:02]
Daniel Jeremiah
I did not know that story.
- [48:04]
Dave Schwartz
She hit her number and they pushed the chips out with the ring on top. I had had to take the ring because I was traveling for business. And it was around Thanksgiving, from Milwaukee to Denver to my family's Thanksgiving in Baltimore to Las Vegas. So it hit every time zone, which made me want to puke my guts out. Don't travel with a diamond ring. And then. Yeah, I just Assumed that the Bill's Gambling hall would be fine with it. They were like, what the fuck are you talking about? I was like, oh, right. I forgot to, like, clue you in on this. I had lost enough money at Bill's historically that the pit boss was like, oh, dude, no problem. No problem. And he showed the ring to the camera, placed it on the chips, and said, I'll clear this table out. And then you have to get. You have to fill it. So I got my family, who would come with me, and we sat down, and she lost every spin. She played 10 numbers at a time, so you're gonna win about, you know, one in every four spins. She lost 12 spins in a row. It was absolutely excruciating. I'm sweating through my clothes. By now, the pit boss has told every other table in the vicinity what's happening. So every time she lost, there were audible groans coming from the other tables, which she thought she was being mocked. But, yeah, it was great. November 2010. So still going strong? She said yes. Still going strong. Yeah, it's great, dude.
- [49:21]
Greg Rosenthal
Put out another addition because that's the best gambling story I've heard.
- [49:23]
Dave Schwartz
Oh, I remember when I told the Bill Sportsbook, because of course she says yes, we hug, and then I'm like, I got to go make some more bets. And I said, hey, I just got engaged. And the guy was like, sounds good. I go, no, I got engaged here. The reaction of the Bills Gaming Hall Sportsbook employees to that. I had chosen to get engaged in that casino at that time. I've never seen people ask more clarifying questions. They would have been less incredulous if I told them I arrived there on a dragon. But to their credit, they gave me the whole book of drink tickets. So shout out to the now defunct Bill's Gambling Hall. Corner of Flamingo and the Strip.
- [49:59]
Daniel Jeremiah
That is legendary. Matt, I don't know how we've known each other for as long as we have, and you've never told me that story.
- [50:06]
Dave Schwartz
This is by total coincidence. I'm drinking from a Bill's Gambling hall mug as we speak, which I bought that day.
- [50:12]
Daniel Jeremiah
You've told me every boring, long gambling story of your entire life, and you've never told me that story?
- [50:18]
Dave Schwartz
I'm just full of surprises, Chad. You know, we all contain multitudes.
- [50:22]
Daniel Jeremiah
Dave, you just said something that I wanted to follow up on. You worked surveillance at casinos?
- [50:28]
Greg Rosenthal
Oh, yeah, yeah. Back when. That was my postgraduate work. So when I was in undergrad, I worked security. After I went and got a PhD, I came back moved back to Atlantic City and went into surveillance.
- [50:40]
Nate Thompson
What did I take out to the loading docks? Were you out there with them or you were still in the back room? Just in their earpiece and. Yeah. Take them out the back door.
- [50:48]
Greg Rosenthal
Just.
- [50:48]
Dave Schwartz
I mean, the thing.
- [50:49]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah. Kind of thinking about this. I really like doing security because you're out there, you know, you're out with people. You're. You're. You're interacting. You're on the floor, you got all that excitement. You in surveillance, you're just up in the room and it's like. Sometimes it was kind of fun. Kind of like Mystery Science Theater 3000. Just, like, watching TV and, like, making jokes and stuff. Other times it was just. There's a lot of tedium. There's a lot of tedium just watching people doing repetitive motions again and again and again. You kind of pick up, like, when someone's gambling. Like, they're very focused in their gambling. So if somebody's gambling and they're looking around, well, maybe I got to watch them because they shouldn't be doing that. They should be focused. I remember one time there's this guy playing slots, and I'm like, he's really nervous. He's gambling. He's, like, really nervous. Like, he's rubbernecking. Okay. I'm pretty sure he's doing a sort thing with slugs. I'm, like, all zoomed in. Like, yeah, man, He's. I'm gonna get him. This is great. Then I assume it was his wife comes down and was like. And like, that's why he was nervous, because he was waiting for us. Maybe he was going to propose. I don't know. But, yeah, it's so funny. Like, no, no, I thought I had it. I was so excited. Like, yeah, I got. Finally got one. I got a slot scam here. Didn't. Didn't have a slot scam. Mostly, I think I had, you know, just a couple of purse snatching kind of things. Those kinds of things.
- [52:08]
Daniel Jeremiah
Did you get pretty good, though, at being able to tell if someone was trying to count cards or cheat at the table at all?
- [52:15]
Greg Rosenthal
Now, they had a count team for that. So that was kind of beyond what. What I did then. You know, it was more just what, you know, basically watching the money. And again, it is very. A lot of tedium just watching the money. Let's say there's an overage or an underage. Underage is worse at a cash window. You've got to go back and watch that cashier's whole shift and Basically they're shooting it from the top down. So you're watching it slow motion. Them putting out the money, proving the chips, stacking the chips. Okay, I know it's $270 and we're, we're $100 short. So boom, boom, boom. Oh, wow. Now I see a transaction where the cashier was $80 short. So now I've got to look for $80 transactions too, not just the big ones. That was like, yeah, my soul left my body. I remember I spent like three shifts scrutinizing this one thing and then supervised. Like it probably happened during tape change because back then they had tapes and was like, oh, God. Never felt so defeated.
- [53:16]
Dave Schwartz
Like, that's a lot like betting. It feels like you were in the middle of college basketball. Yeah, yeah.
- [53:21]
Greg Rosenthal
Because I'm like, yeah, I know I'm going to find this. And you know, there. Yeah. So that's. Yeah, that was quite a thing. Dave.
- [53:30]
Dave Schwartz
One of the themes of both books is the everything that is old is new again. And one of my favorite examples is in the middle of the 19th century, you have Francois Blanc and he, he runs a bunch of incredibly successful casinos. He's the guy that made Monte Carlo a luxurious gambling location, right? And he's visited by Napoleon's nephew and he's a big celebrity. They can't wait to have him. And he rolls up and bets only the table, maximum for like three days. And he kicks the shit out of the casino. He wins an absolute fortune. And then before they can win it back, he just packs his stuff and leaves.
- [54:11]
Greg Rosenthal
Very abrupt.
- [54:12]
Dave Schwartz
They could barely make make the payment. He took like basically all their cash on hand. But in the all that is old is new again. They were like, what are we going to do? He goes, here's what we're going to do. Tell every person in every contact that we have across Europe that this guy cleaned us out. We are total dopes. Tell him exactly how much he won. Tell him how easy it was for him. Let everybody know we are ripe for the picking loosest slots in town kind of mentality. And it worked. The next year was their most profitable year on record. It feels like the, the sportsbook's helping to promote the long shot parlays that hit that like there's a universality, there's a timelessness to all these tricks. I'm sure you have a million examples.
- [54:54]
Greg Rosenthal
Oh, yeah. And it is, it is just that basic psychology where people report the big wins but nobody reports the losses. We assume everyone else is winning but me. So I'M going to win soon because that's all I hear about. And you know, in Vegas, when somebody wins at the airport slots, that makes the local news like somebody WINS, you know, $50,000 in slots. It's like, what about all the people who didn't win today at the slots? How come that's not newsworthy? So, yeah, that is a. That is a thing. I don't think that's ever going to go away.
- [55:23]
Dave Schwartz
Yeah, people think all these things are new inventions. It's like they've been doing. They've been following a playbook that is hundreds of years old.
- [55:29]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah.
- [55:29]
Daniel Jeremiah
All I heard from that Matt is that guy won a lot and the casino lost a lot. And the next year, the casino made it back, which means Simon and I, next year, we are freaking due.
- [55:44]
Dave Schwartz
I mean, the advertising obviously would have worked on me, so I can also appreciate the universality of the advertising because I definitely would have been like, all right, pack our buggies or whatever. Get on the. Get on the railroad. We got to hit this casino in France.
- [55:57]
Daniel Jeremiah
Dave, I want to thank you for coming on Roll the Bones, which is a great book, a great reference book, full of amazing anecdotes, something for your money. Another fabulous book. Congrats on the release early this year. Matt's not wrong when he tells me to say you are the preeminent Vegas casino historian. You got it all. Thanks for providing so many good stories.
- [56:24]
Greg Rosenthal
Thanks. It means a lot coming from you guys, too, you know, Humbling and gratifying. Yeah, I'm glad you know, and I hope people do like the books. It's just trying to share a little bit of that excitement and some of these cool stories that have happened.
- [56:35]
Daniel Jeremiah
Everyone go buy the books. As a reminder, the Favorites podcast is presented by bet365 and now new bet365. Customers get $150 in bonus bets when you bet $5. Sign up using promo code. Favorites deposit $10 place a bet for $5 to get $150 in bonus bets. Those bonus bets can be used on spreads, totals, player props, futures, and more. Whatever the moment, it's Never ordinary. A bet 3. So 5 must be 21 or older and present in Arizona, Colorado, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, North Carolina, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, or 18 and older in Kentucky. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or 1-800-BITS OFF in Iowa. Terms, conditions, restrictions apply. Simon and I will return with our next episode of the Favorites on The Action Network YouTube page this Thursday, 11am Eastern. Talking free agency in the NFL with Chris Raybon. Download us from Spotify Apple Pods wherever you get your pods Rate, Review, subscribe, leave us. 5 stars. Say whatever you want. Feedback as a gift. Till next time. Love you.
- [57:42]
Greg Rosenthal
Action Network reminds you, please gamble responsibly. If you or someone you care about has a gambling problem, help is available 24. 7@1800- gambler what's up everyone?
- [57:54]
Daniel Jeremiah
It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents starting on March 6th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [58:24]
Julie Sterbinks
What's up everyone? Julie Sterbinks here along with former NHL player Nate Thompson.
- [58:28]
Greg Rosenthal
We're doing a new podcast together.
- [58:30]
Dave Schwartz
Here we go.
- [58:31]
Julie Sterbinks
The name Energy Line with Nate and jsb.
- [58:34]
Greg Rosenthal
Each week we'll get together and and talk about hockey life. All topics are fair game, right?
- [58:40]
Julie Sterbinks
Exactly. And you'll never know who will drop by to join us.
- [58:43]
Greg Rosenthal
Julie is pretty well connected. She has text threads going that you wouldn't believe.
- [58:48]
Julie Sterbinks
Listen to Energy Line with Nate and jsb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Mel Reid, LPGA Tour winner and six time Ladies European Tour winner and Kyra K. Dixon, NBC Sports reporter and host. And we've got a new podcast, Quiet Please with Mel and Kira. We are bringing you spicy takes on sports and pop culture, some interviews with incredible people who have figured out how to make golf their superpower and iheart Wins Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. We all have a moment that splits us wide open. On my new podcast, Wide Open with Ashlyn Harris, I'll sit down with trailblazers from sports, music, fashion, entertainment and politics to explore their toughest moments and the incredible comebacks that followed. Listen to Wide Open with Ashlyn Harris, an iHeart women's sports production on the iHeartradio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.