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- [00:00]
iHeart Podcast
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
Degree Advertiser
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- [00:37]
Colin Cowherd
Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn more@discover.com credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report hi, it's Colin.
- [01:07]
From the Colin Coward Podcast. I've been around long enough to know quality when I see it. Or in this case, when I taste it. Tito's Handmade Vodka. Good stuff. No flash, no gimmicks. Smooth, clean, tasting, made the right way. Tito's made in Austin, Texas. Real attention to detail. I like to keep it simple. Tito's Soda, one lime, lot of ice. Refreshing, easy. Summer, winter, spring. Totally versatile. Always works. Listen, baseball season's here. The perfect time to kick back with some Tito's. It's what I pour. You should too. Distilled and bottled by 5th Generation Inc. Austin, Texas. 40% alcohol by volume. Savor responsibly.
- [01:47]
Dan Flores
Why is a soap opera western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6, where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.
- [02:09]
Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [02:25]
Chad Millman
Welcome to the Favorites, the Podcast, part of the Volume Podcast Network. I am Chad Millman of the Action Network. Today, a little bit of a different show. Simon, as everybody knows from the last episode, is visiting with his family in jolly old England. So I am joined because I can't do this solo. I'm no Colin Cowherd, I'm no, I'm no boss of the Volume podcast network. I can't go for three hours mapping out my shows like it's a tree with a lot of different branches. There's only one Colin Cowherd. I need help. So I'm joined by producer Matt Mitchell for the fourth installment in our series of great stories from gambling's wild history. As you guys know, I've mentioned this a few times. I'm working on this book, so I've been traveling nonstop. I've been digging into archives. I got a couple great stories that I'm going to share of things that I've learned. Really, really cool stories. And Matt is going to share some stories as well. Matt doesn't even know what I'm going to talk about. So. Matt. Hi, buddy. Are you excited?
- [03:36]
Matt Mitchell
I couldn't be more excited, Chad.
- [03:38]
Chad Millman
All right, so this, this is direct from my book. I'm giving. I'm giving a little bit away. Chad Millman wrote a book. It's such a good story every time I tell it. And Matt, I haven't even told you this. People, like freak out. One of the guys who was was known as the bookmaker for the mafia. This guy named Ed Kurd lived in Lexington, Kentucky. He was a guy who grew up in Lexington, was enamored with the ponies, started going to the tracks in Lexington, working in the stables, and very quickly got connected to a lot of different people who were within organized crime and were also just regular horse bettors and very quickly learned that he had a talent for betting on horses. He ultimately became known as one of the best horse betters in the country, but also started to help organize betting on sports as it was becoming more and more popular in the 30s and 40s. Ultimately because members of organized crime and the leaders of organized crime, they often came through Lexington to go to the tracks and to vacation there. Like if you came through Lexington, oftentimes you were also going to Arkansas where they had the springs. Hot Springs, Arkansas was famous for being a casino town, a mini Vegas before Vegas. And a lot of people would vacation there and get relief in the hot springs and all this kind of stuff, right? All this great, just sort of really fun color about old time betting history and betting stories. Anyways, Ed famously was a bookmaker for the mafia and had this estate in Lexington where it had a secret room. And the secret room, you had to get to it by pressing a button in his den. And a wall opened up and then you could go down a spiral set of stairs into the basement where he had literally dozens of phone wires coming into the basement where he was working his operation, running numbers and taking bets and moving money all across the country. Like he was at the center of the country doing this. It was insane. So I went to Lexington and I was lucky enough that I called the. I found the guy who owns his house randomly, like through various connections and phone calls reporting, matt, shoe leather gumshoe. That's what I do, right? So got in touch with the guy. I land, I'm talking to the guy for 10 minutes. I'm in Florida. I'm going to Lexington in two days. I'm telling him what I'm looking for. He goes, why don't you just come by the house? So I showed up at the guy's house at 9:30 in the morning. Walks me in. Never met the guy in my life. Walks me in. Total stranger. He goes, you're not gonna believe this. Walks me into the den, presses the button, the wall opens up, Takes me down the spiral staircase into the basement. It looks exactly the same. They have not touched it. It is amazing. So that's number one. I got to go and see a very cool piece of sports betting history. What do you think of that?
- [07:00]
Matt Mitchell
Stranger? Lets you right into your. Right into the house. Incredible. You're America's guest.
- [07:05]
Chad Millman
Honest to God, I was shocked. And you know what's funny? When I was down there, his wife comes down and she's looking at me and she looks at her husband. He goes, no, honey, I did not check him out. Did not do one Google search. I just sort of felt like I'm going with it. And here he is, just this guy.
- [07:27]
Matt Mitchell
With his big gulp full of whatever exotic olive oils, eating macadamia nuts out of a little satchel. He's no. He's no threat.
- [07:34]
Chad Millman
He just sounded like such a sad sack, like if he wasn't going to get into this basement, he might not be able to write this book. So I'm just going to let him in. And he couldn't have been more lovely. I'm not naming any names. I'm going to save it all for the book. That's part number one. The other thing, you know what, you tell your story and I'm going to go back to something else I've learned.
- [07:54]
Matt Mitchell
Incredible. Well, it's a testament to how unintimidating you are and such a mensch that someone would meet you and go, you know what? Let me just take you over to my house, show you my secret rooms. I'm burying. Nice job. Let me take you to the fucking catacombs of my house. It's no problem. You're trustworthy. You're wearing your little fedora with your little press, little puff part in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [08:19]
Chad Millman
Honest to God, it was great. I was more than. More than grateful.
- [08:26]
Matt Mitchell
Well, Chad, I've got a treat for you today. I'm going to tell you two stories featuring two absolute gambling maniacs from the 19th century. I think they will resonate greatly with our audience, who's also full of degenerates, this kind of aspirational behavior. So first person we're going to talk about is brother Elijah Skaggs, the preaching Pharaoh dealer. So, as we've discussed in previous episodes, Chad, in the early 1800s, there were like three gambling hotbeds. You had England, specifically London. You had high end European resorts like the German spa towns, and yet America. And in each of these hotbeds, you had like one game that was by far the most popular. In England, that national game was hazard, a dice game that would become basically craps. In the European resort towns, they had my personal favorite, roulette, because I'm obviously very, very classy. And in America, the national game was Pharaoh Faro, called the game that won the West. And again, not the ancient grain, but a game, a gambling game called which.
- [09:40]
Chad Millman
The ancient grain, which I just got to say, it's making a comeback and it's so good for you and it packs in so much nutrients. I've been eating a lot of farro and you can mix it, it's great with olive oil. I just want to make that psa. I knew that get into the faro game.
- [10:02]
Matt Mitchell
I knew it would get you all hot and bothered. We talked ancient grains, even though, by the way, you say quinoa, so I.
- [10:07]
Chad Millman
You say ancient grains and all of sudden I'm in a different zone.
- [10:11]
Matt Mitchell
Yeah. Try to, try to control your emotions as we go through this. Now, the, the gambling game, Pharaoh, it seems like an absolute blast, Chad. So like poker, you don't need a lot of stuff. And unlike roulette, you could play it virtually anytime, anywhere. But like roulette, it involves virtually no skill whatsoever. And when you play Pharaoh, you play against a dealer. And that dealer can be located in a casino the way you'd like. Picture it when I say dealer. But a Pharaoh dealer could also just be an independent person, like an independent contractor traveling from town to town, because everything you need to play Pharaoh fits in a single kit. In America, these were typically small mahogany boxes and on the boxes would have a picture of a Bengal tiger that was the symbol of Pharaoh. Inside these little boxes was a layout. It was everything you needed. It was a tray of chips and a deck of cards and like a little felt fold out that you just place on a table and it would have pictures of the 13 different cards on it from 2 to Ace. And this is an audio medium, Chad, primarily. So in the spirit of painting a picture, I'm going to use you as our model for the roving Pharaoh dealer. So you, Chad Noman, first you learn how to deal Pharaoh. Next you get a little bankroll of cash or a partner who has cash. Yeah, go ahead.
- [11:40]
Chad Millman
In this play, do I get a speaking role?
- [11:44]
Matt Mitchell
Oh, for sure, yeah, you'll be paid. Yeah, you get paid. You'll get union scale because you have a speaking role.
- [11:49]
Chad Millman
Just let me know when it's time for my line because I think I got one.
- [11:53]
Matt Mitchell
Well, suddenly it's very easy for you to now start going town to town as like a mobile casino. You have your little kit, you get everything you need. Maybe you make a deal with a local bar. Maybe you're setting up shop in a hotel. Maybe you have a little well maintained mustache. Maybe you're wearing a snappy little vest with a little pocket watch. Maybe you look incredible. Maybe you have a little phrase you say like, go ahead, Pharaoh, Pharaoh, get your Pharaoh. Perfect. Yes, you've nailed it. The way you avoid it, talking about ancient grains and you're selling in your cell job is perfect.
- [12:34]
Chad Millman
Well, this is what I feel like. The reason I said it is because it could be a little bit of a bait and switch where I could get people who are interested in gambling. And like I'm speaking to the insiders and they're coming in, they're like, oh my God, I get to play Pharaoh. How incredible is that? But if they don't know, they could just be a little peckish and coming by for a bowl of farro and they're hungry. I'd be like, oh no, I mean the game, let me show you. And then they're so entranced by my sales job, all of a sudden they're playing the game and I'm making bank a natural salesman. So yeah, that out so quickly.
- [13:12]
Matt Mitchell
Incredible. You were truly painting a picture.
- [13:15]
Chad Millman
I could have survived by my wiles in the late 1800s.
- [13:18]
Matt Mitchell
So you and your wiles, you can head out west, you can go down south. Very easy for you to find a place to set up shop because there's lots of money in it. So People are happy to see faro dealers, and I won't dive into the rules, but, like, as a game, I'll just note that it's quiet, it's fast, it takes up very little space, and it's still very exciting. And best of all, you could be, say, and illiterate old west miner with, like, lead poisoning, and you could still learn the rules and remember them pretty easily. So it's. It's really like a perfect game for the era. So that's the backdrop. The stage is set. Let's talk about our boy, Elijah Skaggs. So Elijah's born and raised in backwoods Kentucky as part of a huge extended family. Everybody's gambling, the whole family, the whole area. So he learns how every game works. He loves it. Who wouldn't? He eventually learns all the tricks of the trade. He learns how to cheat as a dealer. Stack in the deck, bottom dealing, all that stuff. By the time he's 21, he's won a pile of cash off everybody he knows in town. And he's like, you know what? I'm taking my show on the road. And he understands strong personal branding. Chad, like you, he dresses in a plain black frock coat, plain suit, white shirt. Yeah, Yep. White shirt, high collar. He looks a lot like a preacher, so he gets the nickname the preaching faro dealer, which he loves because he feels an almost religious zeal for this game because the thing he loved most about it was it's a game that's entirely in control of the dealer. If you mastered the deal, you could control the entire game. So Skaggs packs up first. He hits up Nashville, then he spreads out to all up and down the eastern seaboard. And if he ever catches a fellow dealer pulling a fast one that he's never seen, he bribes these guys very handsomely to teach him, because he's a lifetime learner, Chad, just like us, love of learning. He's traveling around, he's cheating his way into a ton of money. But he realizes he can only make so much as one guy, and that gives him an incredible idea. Chad, he goes down to New Orleans, sets up an operation, and he's going to run America's first gambling syndicate.
- [15:41]
Chad Millman
He's gonna scale.
- [15:42]
Matt Mitchell
That's right. That's exactly right. So Elijah goes into all the casinos. He's looking for young gambling recruits. He gathers them up, he teaches them, he trains them relentlessly on how to cheat as faro dealers because he's very good. So he's a good. He's a good professor. Once these guys Are all trained up. He sets them up in teams of two. But he then assigns every one of these duos with one of his dozens and dozens of cousins who serve as essentially the roving pit boss. And he dispatches them all across the country. He pays all the expenses, and the dealers can keep 25% of what they rake in after expenses. And it works, Chad Norman. It works perfectly. At their peak, he had 100 dealers running this remarkable nationwide racket. And the money is just pouring in and. What did you just say? What's the first thing he does with the money? Chad?
- [16:40]
Chad Millman
Gambles it.
- [16:41]
Matt Mitchell
No, he scales. He scales the operation more. He scales more.
- [16:46]
Chad Millman
Okay, I was wrong.
- [16:46]
Matt Mitchell
No, it'd be like he's an incredible. He'll. We'll get to the gambling in a second. But he's still in invest mode.
- [16:53]
Chad Millman
He's a businessman.
- [16:54]
Matt Mitchell
He is a businessman. First, he funds his own gambling house in New Orleans.
- [16:59]
Chad Millman
Higher. Ahead. He's higher and ahead. He's getting ahead.
- [17:03]
Matt Mitchell
He's got a brother. He wants to run a similar racket out in California. And they're not even a state yet. You could do whatever the fuck you want out there. He goes. Sounds good. He bankrolls his brother to open up an operation on the west coast. And I know you'll like this. He's a patron of the gambling arts. Chad. Elijah funds inventors to help him cheat. He pays inventors to fund new gambling devices, New crooked pharaoh boxes and all sorts of stuff like that. And in return, he gets exclusive usage for one year. And then they could sell to whoever they want. And that works too. He can't stop making money. By the time this guy is 40 years old, his inventor pals have flooded the market with crooked faro boxes. All his dealers are known as cheaters. It doesn't matter. He's two decades into this racket and he retires. This absolute son of a bitch is a multimillionaire in the goddamned 1850s converting to today's dollars. Yet we're talking about a guy worth like $100 million today just through cheating at a huge scale. The classic corporate American success story. Herbert Asbury, the journalist and betting expert who wrote the original book Gangs in New York, he said of Elijah Skaggs that more than any other individual, he likely had the single biggest influence on the spread of American gambling nationwide. This guy was an incredible operator.
- [18:34]
Chad Millman
I've got a nickname for him.
- [18:35]
Matt Mitchell
Oh, lay it on me.
- [18:37]
Chad Millman
Elijah Skaggs, the scaling syndicate selling swindler.
- [18:49]
Matt Mitchell
Incredible.
- [18:50]
Chad Millman
See that alliteration?
- [18:51]
Matt Mitchell
I mean, a Natural author's brain always working overtime. Chad.
- [18:55]
Chad Millman
Literate podcast.
- [18:56]
Matt Mitchell
It's an incredibly literate podcast. And Chad, I'm sure you're thinking, how's the story end? Does it have a happy ending? Of course. Skaggs enjoyed a luxurious retirement and then mid retirement, he made his two biggest gambles. The first was buying an enormous Louisiana cotton plantation and the second was investing millions and millions of dollars into, that's right, Confederate war bonds. So spoiler alert to any 200-year-old listeners. The Confederacy would go on to lose the Civil War, Elijah would lose his entire fortune, and he died pretty close to penniless in Texas in 1890. And that's the story of Elijah Skaggs, America's crooked pharaoh king.
- [19:42]
Chad Millman
Elijah Skaggs, Gambling pioneer scaling syndicate selling swindler war bonds.
- [19:52]
Matt Mitchell
Not a good investment.
- [19:54]
Chad Millman
Here's what's interesting and it connects directly to my story as I'm researching this book, is how so many businesses today were born of illicit ill gotten gains. Right? You could look at the whole gambling industry and say this is built on the back of illegal activity. Right? The predominant purveyors of gambling products through the early 1900s until the 1980s was organized crime and the mafia. And slowly but surely, as more and more states legalize various forms of betting that transitioned away from being the dominant source of revenue for organized crime into being legitimate businesses that have created Caesars, MGM DraftKings, FanDuel Action Network. Right? All of these used to be completely illegal businesses that were dominated by organized crime. Similarly, professional sports. Matt, what if I told you that some of the biggest brands in professional sports were founded by sports betters? What if I told you that incred.
- [21:33]
Matt Mitchell
Sounds like high risk tolerance zealots? Chad.
- [21:37]
Chad Millman
Matt, New York Yankees, I've heard of them. The New York Yankees, founded by a man who was known as a degenerate gambler who prominently fixed games, was so known for fixing games, he built what was at the time the largest casino in New York on 33rd street in Manhattan. And people had to wonder, as he's sitting in the casino, are the players also fixing the game so he can continue to make money at his casino? New York Yankees, founded by a gambler. How about the New York Football Giants still owned by the Mara family? Tim Mara, famous, famous, better, went to Belmont, won 500 at the track. The next day, bought the New York Football Giants. Detroit Lions, founded by a gambler. Cleveland Browns, founded by a gambler. Chicago Cardinals, still owned by the Bidwell family. Bill Bidwell, famously a gambler with significant hold on Was it Bill Bedwell or was it Charles Bidwell? I don't want to defame anything.
- [23:02]
Matt Mitchell
I think, I think Bill was the son.
- [23:04]
Chad Millman
Yeah. Charlie Bidwell, former Cardinals owner, made a fortune opening racetracks also. He was. Let me just make sure I get this right. He was a known associate of Alex Capone, known gambler, known racetrack owner. Pittsburgh Steelers still owned by the Rooney family. Art Rooney once famously won $200,000 betting on the horses. Owned a saloon, allegedly bought the Steelers with gambling winnings. What's interesting about this, by the way, Lamar Hunt, who obviously the chief's founder, he was the son of H.L. hunt. H.L. hunt was an oil man in Texas. It is widely known. Like there are stories about this in. I've got a Newsweek issue of Newsweek from 1960 that includes the biggest sports bettors in the world. HL Hunt is listed as one of those sports bettors in the oil field at the Poker Tales tote tables everywhere else. Very well known as a sports better list goes on. Man, it's, it's amazing to me and I think that your point is. Look, when people were buying these teams and these professional leagues were starting in the late 1800s, early part of the 1900s, it wasn't the titans of industry, it wasn't the Vanderbilt, it wasn't JP Morgan, it wasn't the Rockefellers who were going to take their industrialist riches and invest in these nascent sport leagues that were made up of, you know, blue collar workers and people who largely weren't educated and were known as sort of people hanging out in barrooms and brawling. They weren't going to invest in these professional sports leagues. The only people who were going to do it were sports freaks who were probably betting and had a high tolerance for risk. And that's why so many of these teams were founded by professional betters.
- [25:22]
Matt Mitchell
And it could offer something that they, you can't buy, which would be a, you know, bragging rights, a championship, something that you'd have to, you'd have to earn your way into. Which I think still happens to this day.
- [25:34]
Chad Millman
Correct.
- [25:34]
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- [27:01]
Dan Flores
The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. Hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores and brought to you by Velvet Buck, this podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode I'll be diving into some of the lesser known history of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best selling author and Meat Eater founder Stephen Rinella.
- [27:32]
Matt Mitchell
I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here. And I'll say it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves.
- [27:42]
Dan Flores
So join me starting Tuesday, May 6, where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.
- [27:53]
Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [28:01]
Chad Millman
Give me one more story. Matt Mitchell all right, this is the.
- [28:04]
Matt Mitchell
Story of John Betamillion Gates, the most notorious big money gambler in American history. And that's from. That's our buddy Dave Schwartz. So said with some authority. So John Gates is an absolute degenerate. Absolutely love to gamble. If you look up, his face looks like it belongs on US currency. Looks like Rutherford B. Hayes. Looks incredible. And one of my favorite things to do with this stuff chat is learning how these old like gambling whales, how'd they get rich in the first place? Because that's a, that's always interesting to me because he didn't come from a wealthy family. And with John Gates that's a really, that's a fun place to start. So just as Eliza Skaggs, our boy Is buying his confederate war bonds. Our guy, John Gates, is being raised on an Illinois farm just west of Chicago, and he hates it. And if any of those 200 year old listeners of ours are near you, they'd happily tell you he hated it because it's hard and it sucks. Like, there's no mystery about why working on that farm wouldn't be appealing. One summer, he gets paid by a neighbor to clear some timber from the property. Then he gets to keep the timber and he cuts it up and he sells it as firewood down at the railroad station. It's actually pretty savvy racket. Get yourself paid twice, right? He hates that too, because it's really hard and it also sucks. So eventually he's hanging down so much down at the railway that the railroad workers are like, hey, do you want to come play in our card game? And they teach him how to play Pharaoh, which he likes right away because it is very fun. And pretty soon John's like, man, playing cards is way better than working. I like this a lot more. He gets good at playing poker, he wins some money, and basically is like, I'm not, I'm not running this, this work racket anymore. This sucks. Playing cards is way more fun. Which, like, same, same dude. I feel you. Eventually, though, he meets a nice girl, he has to get a real job because he wants to marry her and all that. Can't just be a guy that plays poker behind a locomotive. So after a couple false starts, he gets set up. He's trying to run a hardware store. It goes under. But when he's doing that, a salesman comes in and introduces him to a brand new invention called barbed wire. He sees this invention and he's like, man, this shit is dope. Everyone's going to need this. So he goes, okay, let's do it. I'm going to quit the hardware store and I'm gonna go like, this is. This makes perfect sense. He understands immediately the value. He goes, I'm gonna go to work for one of these guys that sells this. He goes down to Texas and all the ranchers meet him and they're like, holy shit. John Gates is incredible. He's just a degenerate like us that wants to gamble with us all day. So he's becoming very popular.
- [30:50]
Chad Millman
And he's got bales of barbed wire.
- [30:52]
Matt Mitchell
Well, here's the thing. Chad Gates knew these ranchers have a big problem on their hands, right? And do you remember favorites contest winner Daniel from Bobel's, North Dakota very well?
- [31:04]
Chad Millman
He was one of Our highlights.
- [31:06]
Matt Mitchell
I hope he's listening right now because he is an absolute gem of a guy.
- [31:09]
Dan Flores
Yeah.
- [31:10]
Matt Mitchell
Do you remember what he spent his $40,000 prize money on?
- [31:13]
Chad Millman
Tractor, I believe.
- [31:15]
Matt Mitchell
Cattle. He bought cattle.
- [31:16]
Chad Millman
That's right. That's right.
- [31:18]
Matt Mitchell
So our pal Daniel would definitely have understood the problem these ranchers are facing. They own tons of open range now, which is kind of brand new. They need a way to close in these enormous parcels of open land. They need to keep livestock out of other people's crops because that, that costs them money. They need to keep their livestock off the fucking railroad tracks because that, that screws with everybody. And cattle that are miles apart from each other don't get it on. They don't produce enough cabs. So using any normal fence material like wood would literally bankrupt ranchers. You can't make a, a 15 mile fence out of wood out there. So Gates is like, great, I'll just explain this to everybody in Texas. And they are like, absolutely not. We don't want any of your barbed wire. And they either think it's some kind of trick or that it'll hurt their animals and it won't work, or that generally it's just some kind of racket that Yankees are trying to run on the south because there's still a lot of distrust there from any of, you know, Yankee big ideas, which, you know, you can't blame them.
- [32:21]
Chad Millman
I get it.
- [32:22]
Matt Mitchell
So Gates stops playing cards. Yeah, elitist. It's an elitist indention. Exactly. So Gates stops playing cards for like one second and he's like, I've got an idea. I'm going to make this big, insane bet. He stages a cattle stampede in Military Plaza in downtown San Antonio, which is still there as, like a public demonstration. And it proves that barbed wire is a safe and effective tool that they can use. And it works perfectly. He makes a fortune in sales. And he goes to the owner of the company, he's like, hey, I'm killing it. I want to go into business with you. Let's be partners. Owner says, no. He goes, all right, I'm out. He goes to St. Louis. He finds another guy making barbed wire, and he says, hey, let's go into business together. They sell even cheaper and they're killing it. And eventually Gates old boss sues them for using identical equipment. And for the record, it was very similar, but it was not identical. Anyway, Gates and his partner know that if they get served papers, they're going to have to shut down. If that happens, even for a little bit, they're cooked. So they come up with another insane gamble while hiding from process servers like in a bad 90s movie. They rent a small building directly across the Mississippi. That's their new headquarters. And in the middle of the night, they hire dudes to take all their machinery down to the river, load it onto a ferry, push it across the river, and dock it on the opposite bank in East St. Louis, Illinois, outside of the court's jurisdiction. It pays off. They continue operating. They continue making barbed wire. John Gates is a genius.
- [34:06]
Chad Millman
Blah, blah, blah.
- [34:07]
Matt Mitchell
Company gets huge. They eventually merge with US Steel, owned by JP Morgan. Gates becomes a bazillionaire and becomes enemies with JP Morgan, the richest and most powerful person probably in American history. Which is another whole hilarious story. But that's how Gates becomes this kind of loaded guy. Stock markets crushing. He invests, he makes more money. And now Chad, he can get out of his mind gambling. He is gambling amounts of money. That made me think that's just how it was back then with these robber barons. And the other robber barons are like, no, that's not how this works. This is not how any of us are. This is insanity. And I'm going to show you how. First thing, he's like, you know what? I'm going to need a clubhouse to gamble in. So he pays $30,000 a year for a giant suite at the Waldorf Astoria in Manhattan. He lives in Chicago, but he's like, I'm making money in the stock market. It makes sense for me to keep a place, the Waldorf Astoria. The hotel hates his guts because he's literally using it as a private gambling clubhouse. The suite has a private entrance, private elevator. And still, the amount of noise him and his buddies are making is like out of control. True robber baron, fat cat behavior. This guy has a South side Chicago mansion that's still there. It's just on the other side of the i90 Express from right field where the White Sox play. Not where I build my mansion today, but that's fine. He'd gather up his Chicago buddies and they get on the train to New York City to party at the Waldorf. And there were reports that these guys would go on benders where they'd play a cash poker game for four uninterrupted days and nights. They'd start in Chicago at the train station. They'd play for the two day overnight train ride. They'd freeze the game. They'd move into the suite at the Waldorf. They play two more full days and nights with millions of dollars changing hands. Huge amounts of money. And I'm looking to see, like, oh, I'll paint the picture. I'll look up where it was taking place. This is, as they're still planning, Union Station and Grand Central Station. That's how long ago this was. His wife obviously knows she married a fucking gambling demon, but she reportedly didn't like it. Like, these week long gambling free for alls were like, that's a little much for her. So she tried to break them up. But instead of just trying to limit these benders to like a couple days, Gates learned a trick that I think, I assume you've done several times. Chad. Let me know if this sounds familiar. In his suit pocket, he'd keep a few giant loose diamonds. And if his wife was really mad at them, he just fish went out and say, hey, honey, I just won this. Why don't you do something nice with it? And she'd just walk over to Tiffany's and they'd have it set. And that would usually buy him like a day and a half. Just like you and Stacey.
- [37:03]
Chad Millman
That's how we live, Matt.
- [37:05]
Matt Mitchell
Yeah, I mean, everyone needs to buy time. Everyone's time is valued in a different way, Chad.
- [37:10]
Chad Millman
Except instead of diamonds, I give her bowls full of Farro Pharaoh.
- [37:15]
Matt Mitchell
Yeah. You give her ancient grains.
- [37:16]
Chad Millman
Yeah, she knows that's my love language.
- [37:19]
Matt Mitchell
You're so mad at me. It seems like you're hungry, but you don't want the bloat. Have I got great news for you. There are reports of him betting the equivalent of $100,000 on coin flips multiple times. He won a close to a million dollars on a single horse race, which is how he got the nickname Bet a Million Gates. There's no indication he was actually good at betting on the ponies, but the president of the Jockey Club eventually asked him to please limit his bets to $10,000 a race because the sheer scale of his wagers was starting rumors that the races were fixed. And when our guy, Dave Schwartz, calls him the most notorious big money gambler in history, like, that's the kind of behavior that earns that title when operators are like, bro, you are betting so much money, all reasonable people are thinking, this guy must be cheating because what is happening is, like, unimaginable. But I'm going to end the story of John Gates with my favorite anecdote. Because he bets on something so insane that I never even considered it on at least two separate fully witnessed occasions. Once on a train ride from Chicago to Pittsburgh, and again in a club room at the Waldorf Astoria. John Gates and another man bet the modern equivalent of almost $1 million on which of two raindrops on a window would go to the bottom of the window first. Both times, Gates won. And that's the story of John bet a million Gates.
- [38:52]
Chad Millman
John bet a million Gates. Elijah Skaggs, two Americans infamous for their ability to wager insane, uncomfortable amounts of money. Matt Mitchell, as always, bringing the color, bringing the flavor, bringing the pharaoh directly to our listeners. The favorites will return with our next episode on Tuesday on the Action Network YouTube page. We're talking NBA draft. Download us from Spotify, Apple Pods, wherever you get your pods rate. Review. Subscribe. Leave us 5 stars. Say whatever you want. Feedback is a gift. Until next time. Love you. Action Network reminds you, please gamble responsibly. If you or someone you care about has a gambling problem, help is available 247 at 1-800-GAMBLER why is a soap.
- [39:54]
Dan Flores
Opera western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6, where we'll delve into stories of the west and and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.
- [40:16]
Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [40:23]
Memphis Bleak
What up y' all? This your main man, Memphis Bleak right here. Host the Rock Solid podcast. June is Black Music Month, so what better way to celebrate than listening to my exclusive conversation with my bro, Ja Rule. The one thing they can't stop you or take away from you is knowledge. So whatever I went through while I was down in prison for two years through that process, learn. Learn from it. Check out this exclusive episode with Ja Rule on Rock Solid. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search rock Solid and listen now.
- [40:53]
iHeart Podcast
Hi, I'm Sarah Spain, host of Good Game with Sarah Spain and the co author of the new book Runs in the An Incredible True Story of Football Fatherhood and Belonging. Written with and and about Las Vegas Raiders running backs coach D. McCullough, it's the story of a football coach and father of four who sees his life forever changed by the unsealing of his adoption records. And it's got a twist you won't believe. Based on the viral ESPN story I did a few years ago, this book will blow your mind and bring you to tears by Runs in the Family. Wherever books are sold. This is an I Heart podcast.