Simon Hunter (3:32)

Well, it does pay to watch those games live and bet live. I literally did exactly what we talked on the show. I bet the number on OKC. I think they were up 17 or 16 at one point through a very small hedge on the money line. And I did the same thing as you. I thought it was dead because I think they were still down by more than ten head into the fourth and. Or maybe it was even. It might have been like five minutes left in the fourth.

Chad Millman (3:55)

I think it was 15, like three minutes left. They were down 15.

Simon Hunter (3:57)

Whatever it was, I had the same thing as you. I literally turned it off and I did the classic. You're not asleep, you're in bed and you're checking on your phone because you literally, you just want to make. See the money hit. And all of a sudden they start coming back and it was like just three after three is why I love the NBA right now, where it's like these, these teams, if they get hot and hit these threes, they're all such good shooters. Everyone on the team, you can't really give up on it, right? So immediately pop back up, caught that final minute of the game. And yeah, I feel like what we talked about exactly with Matt happened, which was, you know, they needed to get very lucky, had the game be kind of tight in the fourth and make big shots. And now we're once again seeing history. We're like this. This team that no one believed in won that Game one with a ton of luck and a ton of skill, but it was the exact way they needed to, right? They were just outgunned in that game. So it was really fun. And then I think you and I both saw game two and it was back to, I think, what everyone expected, right? OKC is a much better team. So it's. It's a fun series. Going into it, I really had no, no real hope for, you know, what the Pacers could do. But that Game one gave me a little bit of hope and now it's like, all right, we have to watch game three and four now because two, two, that's a real series. If they can steal one of these games here. So I'm really loving what the NBA is doing with these small market teams, Chad.

Chad Millman (5:17)

Well, I disagree. I think there's no hope. I'll explain. Matt Moore, welcome back in. Give us your. Give us game one game to take before we get into where we think it's going.

Matt Moore (5:31)

Yeah, incredible job by the Pacers to hang in there. And you could kind of sense it. I love it when you can sense it in the building, even through the television that you're like that. You could tell the Thunder fans were like, why aren't we up? More like, hey, they scored. It's 11. Why aren't they up by. By 20? The Pacers, we had a really good discussion about this yesterday on buckets. If you create turnovers but you don't score on them, that mitigates a lot of the advantage that OKC is able to create because their half court offense is not stellar. It's good. It's just not like elite level. And so they need these points off of turnovers. And what the Pacers have done the first two games is they've been like, no, we're gonna turn the ball over, but you're not scoring on them. So we turn the ball over and don't score. You don't score on the, on the subsequent possession. And it's just zero, zero, little reset now over the course of a series, it's probably not going to go well. And that's something that Indy's got to get better at. Hal Burton. I described it on the show as like, the man carries his equipment in a wheelbarrow. Just like has to carry that in an industrial grade. Not one of the ones that you get at. Like, not like a Brinky de1 you pick up at Walmart. You got to get an industrial grade to carry around that man's equipment because it's insane what he's able to do in these clutch time situations. This is literally the best clutch run we've ever seen, ever. Nobody's ever hit more clutch shots, right?

Chad Millman (6:49)

Can we just say. Did you say sub Sweet. Subsequent. Is that how you said the word?

Matt Moore (6:58)

I did it again. I did it again. Brandon Anderson called me out on this. He was like, that's not how you say subsequent. And I was like, oh, subsequent. I always thought that it was. I'd always thought that was one of those words that you could pronounce either way. And then I was like, no, I'll look it up, Brandon.

Chad Millman (7:12)

And then it was tomato, tomato, potato, Subsequent. It's subsequent. All right. So my take on all this game one to game two is that we saw the real future when Oklahoma City demolished the Pacers in game two and they didn't let them come back. Like I said, tried to stay up. I wanted to be there for the end. I looked at and thought this is what it looks like without the miracle. And I think we got a miracle. Thunder and five.

Matt Moore (7:56)

I hear you. This is the problem. OkC's 0 and 7 on the road ATS in these playoffs, like they are not great on the road against the spread. Now they could still win this game, right? So they can still get to Thunder in five. I'm hoping that you're right because that's what I bet originally was Thunder minus two and a half and we're down to just Thunder and five to win that bet. The issue is that I find a lot of the things from game two second half. So like here's one. They outscored him in the second half of that game. Oh, but there's garbage time. Take out the last two minutes and it was 59, 59 the second half of that game. Pacers had a 135 offensive rating. That's not Thunder formula here. Thunder shooters Lou Dort shoot 19% on the road in the playoffs like they this Thunder team is a true to form role players Shoot better at home, shoot worse on the road. Squad that building for game three is going to be ballistic. First finals game in 25 years. Basketball crazy state. Even though they've had one of the worst attendance rates in the NBA over the last decade. That's going to be absolutely a crazy environment and it's a really big situation. I think it's probably close but I do think that the Pacers are in a really good spot here and especially with this being Thunder minus five and a half market. Like I have a hard time getting to a spot where I want to bet OKC even to cover less than two possessions. Given their history of how they've been on the road, why they haven't been as good on the road. ATS and how Indy man, the spot for Indy here I think is really good.

Chad Millman (9:25)

Well right now you mentioned the serious prices. The prices are the Thunder +290 to win the series 42 +290 to win the series 4 3. Pacers numbers are obviously higher. We're talking much bigger numbers but plus 1600 to win the series 4 to 1. It's interesting to me you talk about the Pacers as a home team in a basketball mad state. The Pacers have never mattered in Indiana. You know, they had Reggie Miller. Kind of interesting when they were playing the Knicks. They made that finals, but they've never been a team anyone in Indiana talks about. And they've always had a magnificent stadium. That field house is. Is a great place to watch a game. This team feels like it has something a little bit different that is sustainable, that has energy, that has a personality, that has a style of play that people can latch onto. It's not just a sort of, for lack of a better term, NFC south or AFC south team. Matt Moore, do you sense that amongst the NBA denizens right now?

Matt Moore (10:47)

I was just about to say this is an AFC south take from you, Chad, the perennial south hater of professional sports. You know, I think, I think those crowds in the. In the mid-90s, I haven't checked the attendance data, but I think they were really great. I think they believed him. In the mid 2000s with the Artest team, with Jermaine O' Neal before the brawl. Right. The malice. I think that Indiana, because they've got it. One of the problems is when you've got a history of winning in a certain sport like Indiana's basketball program has, then you've got a different standard for success. And Denver is like this, I think, with football, where because the college sports have never really been relevant on any sort of significant scale because they haven't won at a significant level. It's. It really is compared to the Broncos. Like Broncos have all these championships and you win and we'll pay attention to you. That's how you know pro basketball was too. It was. We're not gonna pay attention to the Nuggets until they win and they won and now the crowd's really good. And that's true for most places, but these true small markets, I think you're right that there's a difference between, like okc, okc. When they have bad teams, their crowd's still going to be great. Portland, when they have bad teams, crowd's still great. Indiana, though, I think does sense that there's something different about this team. This is maybe the most fun run that we've seen in NBA playoff history. Like, I have a hard time thinking back to a team that was more fun than this one. When you count the way that they play, the comebacks and all the ways that they've been able to do this I think it does add up to something where and it doesn't seem like the window's closing. It's not a one year deal because you would have thought that last year they made the conference finals okay, they'll come back to earth a little bit and instead they got better and made the finals this year. And even if it did take a certain series of events, it still shows that they're good enough to deliver when these games get tight and that they're made for this. And I think that's really important in the enthusiasm I think that is building around this Pacer squad.

Chad Millman (12:38)

So what are we doing now? Are we 41? Are we 42? What is your take on how this plays out?

Matt Moore (12:46)

Yeah, I bet Pacers or I bet Thunder 42 yesterday plus 290. I still make the the Thunder likely to win this series game. Series script to me feels okay. They stole the one that instantly takes the ability for the 41 to it's going to be really difficult. I just do not have a lot of faith in OKC given how I've seen them up close and personal on the road in these playoffs to take both of them. One of them will be close enough to where it's at least a coin flip. I do not think that Indy's getting both at home. I do not think the Thunder are getting both at home. I'm going to play Pacers moneyline game one. If it loses, I'll be back on them in game two. I think whoever loses game two is going to be a great spot to play or whoever loses game three is a great spot to play in game four. Thunder are going to win game five by by margin. I'll be on alts all over the place for Thunder game 5 regardless of series script unless there's an injury or a Black Swan event. If Thunder win game three, I'm still on Thunder in game five by probably 20 or more. If they win game four, I'm on them in Thunder game five by 20 or more. Pacers game six is going to be a tough one. This is in the same as I think the Denver spot. I think that the OKC might be in a better position to finish it on the road in Game 6 than they were versus Denver in that series. You're gonna see, I think a lot of adjustments. One of the things I'm really curious about is how my many adjustments does Carlisle throw at them in this game in Game 3 because he's kept the zone very close to the vest. They made some offensive adjustments but they haven't done a lot. They. Carlisle's scripting Game two was, hey, let's try and win, but we're not gonna show them the cards here. I'm not playing him until I have to. We got the one I needed to be able to stretch this out. So the question is like, do you. Do you rely on momentum, home crowd, better shooting in Game three, or do you feel like you need to pull out the tricks, the bells and whistles, to get Game three? Because you use them in Game three now they're on the table for OKC to adjust to in Game four. Your ideal would be use momentum, energy, effort, home crowd shooting, get game three, then throw the kitchen sink at him in game four. That's like the script for Indy, but I still don't think that's going to be good enough for them to get both. I still think that Thunder and six is our most likely outcome here after they stole Game one.

Simon Hunter (14:52)

Are we missing opportunity here? Like, this is what we live for. This. This team we just talked about, they've done something, this Pacers team, that's never been done before. Like, they are incredibly clutch. I feel like if this was another sport, me and you would have a better view on it. With basketball, we're just so used to the favorites always coming through, right? The better teams with the better player usually win, but this is the rare opportunity. It feels like, Chad, this isn't Golden State or those LeBron teams. This is a very young team, first time doing it. You know, they don't have a joker on this team. I know. You know, we can say they have the MVP of the league. Yes, we know that. But it's. It just feels different where, like, the Pacers, I was looking for a reason to take them. That Game one was so exactly what I was looking for. It's like they know they're not better. They know they don't have the guys that this OKC team does, but they have this unique ability to believe the J.R. smith. They think they're all the best shooters in the world, and they really believe it. Whether they are, they aren't. And I love it. That confidence in that final two, three minutes. Like Matt said, you could feel it through the tv, right? The Thunder got so tight and they didn't have a Kobe, a Steph Curry, someone at bail on out, take a shot to get two points. And that's what, like we're talking here is that if they steal another one here, if they do steal Game three, that pressure on OKC in Game four. I mean, I can't even imagine it. I can't imagine them sitting there with that type of pressure where, you know, they're down now two one on the road in an environment that Matt just told us. They've struggled on the road, Chad. So I don't know, it feels like we're overlooking it. Are we just, are we missing it here? Should we be taking the Pacers? Is this, Are we overlooking or is what we just talked about like game two? Is that what this series is like? Is OKC really that much better? Pacer simply got lucky in game one. It was a bit of a fluke. So I'm, I, I don't know what they do in this game 1A game 3 here. I'm tempted to just bet Pacers moneyline. It feels like a nice spot for them to bounce back. And I feel like another thing Matt talked about that second half in that game too. That's the Pacers team I expect to see, which is a very, very smart with the ball high flying offense that scores buckets. So I don't know, it feels interesting. We're already leaving them for dead here where it's like, I don't know, this feels like a 76 type of series. So I'm going to take that 42 bet with OKC with you, Matt. But I'm also going to throw a 43 bet on the Pacers at. You know, last time I checked, it was crazy odds. It might have been 10 to 1. So it might have come down. But still, I mean, we're talking ten to one here on Pacers. So I'm, I'm with you guys. I'm trying to play the serious price and it does feel like a 4:2 okc. But I see there's a window. I think Matt Morris sees what I'm seeing here. There's a window for a 43 Pacers game seven win. It just, we're so due. When's the last, when's the last one we had, man?

Matt Moore (17:44)

More.

Simon Hunter (17:44)

Was it Mavericks over the Heat? Was that the last big upset we had?

Matt Moore (17:48)

Cavs 2016 had to be. That was the, was the big one. Warriors was technically one in 2022. You guys were dead on in that series. I, I came on after talking to Brandon Anderson was like, hey, it's Celtics. They're way better. They're going to win this series. And you both were like, it's Steph Curry and the warriors, man. What are you doing? And you were absolutely right on that one.

Simon Hunter (18:07)

But that was the Same thing the first time. Celtics have really gotten there and the lights were very bright. That's. That's just my biggest pause. Like there's just something about that Pacers team. They seem like even though they're not that much more of a veteran team, they just feel like they have a different type of confidence when it's tight at the end of these games than this Thunder team does. So I'm just. I'm trying to find some, some. A little opening chat. This is what professional betters do with.

Matt Moore (18:30)

We.

Simon Hunter (18:30)

We see cracks, we feel like history repeats itself. And I don't know, the way this series has already gone started, it's like OKC has opened the door for the Spacers team. If it was 2 0, I'd have a totally different tune here. They would have a ton of confidence heading to this, this game against the Spacers team. But the fact that it's 1 1, I don't know. It feels like we're overlooking the Spacers team where it's like these are the exact type of dogs we love to bet. Chad. So I'm just. I'm. It's interesting to see how much you're just these guys. Okc, I'm on it. That's the team I want to back. So I'm just. I'm shocked by your position.

Chad Millman (19:03)

I guess I'm just. I'm a little bit swayed by looking at this as. And look, I was looking at this the same way when the Celtics played the Knicks and I was dead wrong. Which was. If not for the Celtics missing two or three three pointers in games one, in games in game one and game two, then they're up three zero in that series. And we're not talking about the Knicks as cardiac kids and finding ways to come back from 20 points down in multiple games because the. The Celtics were clearly the better team. So the Thunder are clearly the better team. They've got more talent. They've got more aggressive, longer players on defense. I love the Pacers. We've been saying all postseason the Pacers floor is so high because the basketball IQ for that team is so, so high. Nemhard, Ni Smith, even Obi Toppin when he comes in like is playing above and beyond. I think what anyone thought he'd be playing at. McConnell, you know, obviously Halliburton, like, they're all great. But OKC has players that are equally great and IQ perspective and then better from a talent perspective. Everyone they're bringing off the bench is better than who the Pacers are bringing off the bench. And so I'm just thinking, okay, the Thunder had one collapse in a game in which they're not used to playing in a high pressure situation like that in game one of the finals. And that's all the Pacers do. So it played to their strength, man.

Simon Hunter (20:43)

More, would you call that a collapse or did they simply get outplayed by the Pacers? Pacers, end of that game.

Chad Millman (20:49)

That's a good shots.

Simon Hunter (20:50)

It didn't feel like it collapsed where it's like, yeah, you know, they just had shots and then they, they just got tight like OKC just could not hit a shot. Even their free throws.

Matt Moore (20:59)

Like the Knicks game one was a collapse, right?

Simon Hunter (21:02)

Yes.

Matt Moore (21:03)

This felt more like the Pacers kept it just within range. And then they did absolutely tighten up. Like Jalen Williams wide open, three pointer off of Shea splitting the double miss. Shay's got that pull now. Shay, I think just missed a shot. Like, I think shaking Shea probably hit that shot, you know, 8 out of 10 times on mid range. Pull, pull up like his. That, that pull up from him is money. But I do think that this is one of the things I talked about. This is the, the OKC advantage in the series is like Chad talked about. They're better, but they're better because they're so dominant in the margins. And what Indy's done in this series and it actually, the same thing is true for game one and game two. OKC is not killing them in the margins. OKC killed him in game two and shot variants. Pacer shot 14 of 40 from three. They're still getting up 43 pointers against OKC. And in game two with the, with the whole season on the line for okc, Indiana missed, missed shots, good contests, good defense, but missed a ton of threes, missed good opportunities. And OKC on the other hand, got 20 points from Alex Caruso. Like, that's a very tough thing for them to duplicate, especially on the road. This is where it gets interesting because I like, I agree with Chad. Like, they are better and it's about the margin and whether Indy can shrink that margin from the power rating standpoint to where it's within range. Because once it gets within range, now this is about can you make shots. And that's Indy. Like Indy's the better shooting team. They've been the better shooting team in the regular season, in the playoffs, in half court and in the series. Like, they are a better shooting team. But they got to get it within range for them to be able to do that. And the question is going to be King Carlisle and the homes environment. Open it up because I will say it's hard to blow out okc. If you win, you win close. But OKC has not been able to blow teams out on the road, which is where they're comfortable. That's where they're comfortable. They can win these close games. They won game four in Denver. Close environment really proves something they have learned from this. This isn't like a team where it's like, yeah, I don't know man. If it gets tight, I think they're gonna like the Celtics, I think were much more like that the last couple of years. They won the title last year because nobody could threaten them. Okay. See, it's like they got a chance but once it gets into variance mode because of the number, there's a lot of value on Indiana. It's just like can they hang on to be in that position for the shot variants to come through for them?

Dan Flores (23:24)

The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. Hosted by me writer and historian Dan Flores and brought to you by Velvet Buck, this podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best selling author and Meat Eater founder Stephen Rinella.

Simon Hunter (23:54)

I'll correct my kids now and then they'll say when cave people were here and I'll say it seems like the.

Matt Moore (24:00)

Ice Age people that were here didn't.

Simon Hunter (24:02)

Have a real affinity for caves.

Dan Flores (24:04)

So join me starting Tuesday, May 6, where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.

Sarah Spain (24:16)

Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Lex Borrero (24:24)

Welcome to the youe versus you podcast. I'm Lex Borrero and every week we sit down with some of the biggest names in entertainment to talk about the real stuff, the struggles, the doubts, and the breakthroughs that made them who they are. We go deep, exploring childhood trauma, family, overcoming loss, and the moments that shape their journey. These honest conversations are meant to take the cape off our heroes with the hope that their humanity inspires you to become a better you and therefore set you free to live the life of your dreams. Here's a sneak peek.

Chad Millman (24:54)

I'm trained to go compete. I'm trained to be like harder. But sometimes that mentality stops you from stopping and smelling the flowers in your own garden.

Lex Borrero (25:02)

Is it wrong to want more?

Chad Millman (25:04)

We migrated. Our family migrated here. I'm like second generation.

Lex Borrero (25:13)

Listen to you versus you as part of Michael Tuda Podcast network. Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Chad Millman (25:25)

You mentioned Carlisle earlier in the show. He's like, yeah, we knew we weren't going to win that game. And I feel like that happens more often in the NBA than any other sport. Yeah, they know going in like they're going to compete. But do you think there is actually something the players pull back, the coaches change strategy. Like, what does that mean? They know they're not going to win the game and why wouldn't they try to win the game?

Matt Moore (25:52)

So every series has got a rhythm and flow to it. Rick's been in so many of these to understand it. Now what's been amazing is a lot of the ways to kind of see how much are they adjusting. And what you do is you look at things like, have they changed their matchups? Have they changed their rotation? Did they tighten the rotation? Is one guy completely out? Do they shift this around? How much have they shifted their game plan going in from the previous game into this one? And what's been fascinating is like Zach Lowe said this on, on Simmons podcast and I completely agree with it. Like, if you've talked to indie folks, it's the same, same thing. They like they game plan for the series to go long, to have that kind of rhythm and flow. And great coaches know you never want to be the first one to adjust and you want to hang on to those adjustments as long as possible because once you play that card, that's it. You can't replay it because now they've seen it, they've scripted it, they've got the counters built in for it. You have to save them. And so I think the thing in game two is they've stolen a lot of these. They stole game two versus the Knicks in Cleveland without making major adjustments. And that got them to be able to win those series short versus having to go seven even when they didn't have home court advantage. Like, that's the real difference here. Like, even when they went six versus the Knicks, it's mostly it's because Knicks had that game five at home. So with Carlisle, I think you go in and you say, look, we're going to compete, we're going to like, these are the things we want to clean up, but we're not going to make these changes. That are going to inherently screw with them because you need the possessions where they're trying to figure them out and adjust for it to be late enough in the game or in the series for it to matter in turning that result your way. Because once you play it, that's it. Most adjustments are gone by six and seven. Like, you're out of adjustments. It's just who makes shots. And so with Carlisle, he's gonna hold back on some of that to be able to make sure he plays at the right time. I don't know if that comes in game three or game four. You can look at it and say, hey, we can't lose game three. Then they've retaken home court. They're going to, you know, and we're now forced into having to win multiple games on the road. Instead, do you save it for game three or game four? That, to me, is a question.

Chad Millman (27:58)

See that, Simon? Why I'm hesitant to go all in on okc. As good as their coach is, Mark Degnal is a really good coach. Carlisle, I mean, he's such a wily veteran. He's obviously won a title. He's now taken another team to the finals. He's a brilliant, not just basketball coach, he's a brilliant NBA tactician. And so if Carlisle sees something that makes him think, all right, this is going to be a long series. And I'm willing to sacrifice tactical decisions in game two because I'm going to need them in, say, game four, game five. That makes me a little bit more inclined to at least think about a serious price. That is six or seven games.

Simon Hunter (28:47)

I'm telling you, there's always little things you love about this. Patri. That's why I was shocked you came on here. I was like, this feels like the exact type of team that Chad would be suckered into betting. The type of dog where it's like.

Chad Millman (28:56)

I don't want to be a sucker.

Simon Hunter (28:58)

Well, I am. I'm. I'm. I'm going to be one of those people. I. I bet him four to three. It's like, it would be hilarious if The Pacers do 1, 4, 2 now and I lose both bets. But everything about it, I just was just like, oh, my God, the Patriots team, even in that blow loss, that's what gave me confidence that game too. It's just like, there's no quit in that team. There was no woe was me. It was a still belief of we can get back in this game. And I'm like, okay, okay. XT is going to feel that up their ass the entire series where even when they're anytime they had any type of lead, they're going to know there's no quit in that other team. And you know, even like looking at our notes right here, the fact that the Sportsbooks already have SGA at -550 for Finals MVP Matt Moore, is that not the most disrespectful thing you've ever seen? If I was a Pacers, that would be on my bulletin board. It's one. One what, what are those odds by the sportsbooks right now? Has he really been that dominant in this series and that do that much respect from the books? Minus 550 finals MVP. That's crazy.

Matt Moore (29:56)

Yeah, I mean it's also reflective of like there's a minus 500 as well in the market. Just reflective of basically it's the series price because nobody else is going to be able to catch him. I very, I, I always want to bet Jalen Williams in these spots because of his skill set. But Shay's been able to, to kind of get there and he's going to win. If they win the series, Shay's going to win it because nobody else is really going to have a case for it if Shea doesn't play well. They're not going to win. Like there's just not. They will not have enough offense if Shea Gillis Alexander does not play well. Even if they win a bunch of defensive. Or they're in a bunch of defensive games.

Simon Hunter (30:27)

Yeah. Is there an Iguodala here?

Matt Moore (30:29)

Yeah. You know, Caruso is like an interesting one after having 20 in game two. Right. Like that's a very, like that's a fun long shot. But you have to think about like what are the chances of them being able to win that many games against this Pacers offense? Because the idea is like well, OKC is better suited for a defensive slugfest because they're the better defensive team. If it's a defensive slugfest. Again, you're into one or two shots can win you the game. Do you want OKC shooters or do you want Indianas? Because I want Indianas. And that's where I think it gets interesting. I think Pascal Siakam is the one that's actually like the really badly priced in the market because When Siakam has 20 or more points, the Pacers are 7 and 1 straight up in ATS in the playoffs when he has, when he has good games, they win. So like I'm spoiler going to be on Siakam. Props for Buckets in game three, which I'm doing after the show. So that's a look there.

Chad Millman (31:18)

Well look when he has 20 or more points. It also means Halliburton is getting the ball out of his hands quickly and getting them into their offense quickly and finding the mismatch. So Halliburton can post, so Siakam can post someone up and hit that mid range jumper that he's so good at hitting. One of my favorite things in NBA Finals every year is when a guy starts to shine and gets his flowers a little bit. And for me that that player has been Aaron Neesmith. Like his defense against Brunson, the way he is so thoughtful in moving his body and getting into position, his ability to shoot the ball like he has become a brilliant player. Like being in New England, remembering the Celtics drafting him and him riding the pine and then he disappeared to India and I'm like, oh, that's such a bummer. Like I liked his story and I was rooting for the kid. He's turned into a straight man playing for the Pacers. I love this guy. Love him.

Matt Moore (32:23)

Talk about his development, he's phenomenal. I talked to him at summer league after his rookie season and you could just tell like he had the right mindset of what it was he was going to work on and how much he was going to focus. And he's had, he had like two great runs at summer league to the point where I was like, do you guys realize like how good Aaron Neesmith is going to be? And then like the Celtics just didn't play him for a team that played a lot of guys. And he gets this opportunity in Indiana and he is the prototypical wing that you want. You want guys with size, physicality, length to be able to contest who can get over screens and can knock down the three. Nisma's been phenomenal for them. Like he's been a great rebounder for them. He's been great steals. He's their best on ball defender coming over those screens. He's the reason why they were able to beat the Knicks. He is the reason that they beat the New York Knicks. He's number 1A on my list for why they got past him. His play in that series was absolutely tremendous and it's like a good reminder of the some guys don't pop immediately, some guys don't walk into training camp and you're like, oh, that guy's going to be awesome every single game even if he's not a superstar. Like that guy's going to be great. Some guys, it takes some time, but if you're got, if you have the skill set and you can build on it and you're patient. And this Pacers team is such a great example of see a vision with guys of seeing what they could be rather than what they can't be. And that to me has been like the lesson of their team build in getting to the finals.

Chad Millman (33:42)

All right, then I'm starting to feel more comfortable about at least betting okc in 6 or the pacers in 7. Like the way you've described the Pacers and their intangibles, how could I not want to root for this team?

Matt Moore (33:59)

And like, like, I'll tell you, I feel better about OKC in six than seven. If this gets to seven, that is. They're gonna, they've kept saying it like, well, we've been, we faced adversity. We were, we were down 2:1 on the road versus Denver. And I'm like, yeah, well, Denver wasn't good. Like, I've covered that team. They were not good. And to Simon's point, if this gets to seven, I am terrified for OKC because, like, house money through the roof for the Indiana Pacers. You make game seven versus the six 68 win thunder. They went on the road last year and won a Game seven in Madison Square Garden. Nobody thought they could win. This team is like the perfect squad to steal a game seven on the road. So I feel way better about OKC and six than I do about OKC and seven if it gets to that point.

Chad Millman (34:45)

All right, then that's what we're doing.

Simon Hunter (34:46)

Simon, we're going to six and the seven.

Chad Millman (34:49)

We're doing six and seven. I like Pacers and seven. I like Thunder and six.

Simon Hunter (34:54)

I love it.

Chad Millman (34:56)

All right, Matt Moore, host of Buckets, thanks for coming on the show. Game three is at 8:30 Eastern Wednesday in Indianapolis. The current line Indy plus five and a half total 228 and a half. Simon and I will return with our next episode favorites Thursday on the Action Network YouTube page. Download us from Spotify, Apple pods, wherever you get your pods rate. Review, subscribe. Give us five stars. Say whatever you want. Feedback is a gift. Until next time. Love you.

Matt Moore (35:28)

Action Network reminds you, please gamble responsibly.

Chad Millman (35:32)

If you or someone you care about.

Matt Moore (35:33)

Has a gambling problem, help is available.

Dan Flores (35:36)

247 at 1-800-GAMBLER why is a soap opera western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday May 6th where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.

Sarah Spain (36:02)

Listen to the American west with Dan.

Matt Moore (36:04)

Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Memphis Bleak (36:09)

What up y' all? This your main man, Memphis Bleak right here? Host the Rock Solid Podcast. June is Black Music Month, so what better way to celebrate than listening to my excuse exclusive conversation with my bro Ja Rule. The one thing they can't stop you or take away from you is knowledge. So whatever I went through while I was down in prison for two years through that process, learn, learn from Check out this exclusive episode with Ja Rule on Rock Solid. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search rock Solid and listen now.

Lex Borrero (36:40)

Welcome to the you versus you podcast. I'm Lex Borrero inviting you to go beyond the titles and the accolades of the world's most successful entertainers. Each week we take off the cape and get real about the inner battles, childhood stories and the moments that shaped our guests. Get inspired to become the best version of you. Listen to youo versus you podcast on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Sarah Spain (37:05)

Hi, I'm Sarah Spain, host of Good Game with Sarah Spain and the co author of the new book Runs in the An Incredible True Story of Football, Fatherhood and Belonging, written with and and about Las Vegas Raiders running backs coach Dan McCullough. It's the story of a football coach and father of four who sees his life forever changed by the unsealing of his adoption records. And it's got a twist you won't believe. Based on the viral ESPN story I did a few years ago, this book will blow your mind and bring you to tears. By Runs in the Family Wherever books are sold, this is an iHeart podcast.