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- [00:00]
Podcast Announcer
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:04]
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- [01:33]
Dan Flores
Is a soap opera western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6, where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.
- [01:55]
Podcast Announcer
Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:10]
Chad Millman
Welcome to the Favorites the Podcast, part of the Volume Podcast Network. I am Chad Millman of the Action Network. Simon is still enjoying time with his family in jolly old England, but we miss him so much. We have to talk about one of the biggest events that comes out of England and has been imported to New York. It is taking place Friday and Saturday. Many people know it as Sports Biggest Party. What is that party, you ask? It's the bet365 US darts masters at the Theater In Madison Square Garden, the the world's eight greatest darts players squaring off against eight of North America's best. It's an incredible party. It's incredibly popular betting event internationally and becoming more popular here in the US Joining us to discuss all things professional darts all the way from his kitchen in Denmark, our better collective colleague in darts, betting expert Benjamin Leander. Brother.
- [03:25]
Benjamin Leander
Hi chat. Thank you so much for having me.
- [03:28]
Chad Millman
Listen, darts has a really sort of special place in the lore of Action Network because when we first launched darts started to be televised here in the United States on Dazn I think and a lot of people went and, and it was a huge betting event that got us all catalyzed and we're having just an incredible time together. So we've been following like the joy of betting on darts and the incredible enthusiasm and the spirit comes from the events and the attitude and the charisma of the, the, the players. Like for those who are totally unfamiliar, why is it called sports biggest party?
- [04:13]
Benjamin Leander
I would say for people not knowing that darts have evolved from the traditional pub sport to the greatest party in the world, I would say that we have festival meets, carnival meets, sports match. Very rare that you can combine all three things. I mean we have all been to a soccer match, an American football match, an ice hockey match, whatever match where you have the sport in the center of everything. With darts you have the atmosphere as the center of everything. And I remember actually watching the first edition of the US Darts Masters that was played at the Tropicana Casino in Las Vegas. People should go watch it. It's on YouTube. Hello again from Professional Darts Championship where once again we've had an evening of high drama as this tournament proceeds towards its climax. 100 and then compared to last year's edition, it is two different worlds. Wow. The championship final. Michael van Gerwen is on a main data. One man misses.
- [05:27]
Chad Millman
Does the other man get?
- [05:29]
Benjamin Leander
I have never seen the like. Come on sp. Yes. Double 12.
- [05:36]
Chad Millman
That is the most amazing leg of.
- [05:39]
Advertising Host
Dance you will ever see in your life.
- [05:42]
Benjamin Leander
I can't spike. I can't spike. The crowd are going berserk. But that is simply the best legged dance ever. Ever. So darts is being the, the biggest party of sports due to the huge atmosphere.
- [06:05]
Chad Millman
What do you think happened? What changed? Because by 2018 when we were starting to cover it at Action, people were already going nuts. Like the attitude, the atmosphere, it was really starting to blow up. What do you think facilitated the, the change in, in sort of culture and enthusiasm?
- [06:25]
Benjamin Leander
Professional darts corporations Is called the pdc. Like the FIFA of soccer or the NHL of hockey, has played a huge role in professionalizing the sports along with broadcasters like Sky Sports and ITV making a very, very good broadcasting product of the sports. Because it is universal that when you watch a darts game, you want the best angles. I mean nobody can watch the dartboards from, from, from the places of the crowd, but with monitors and, and on tv, the, the many, many different camera angles showing exactly where the players are throwing the darts. That has been a huge key in, in the darts rise during the last year. Like you said, the last seven or eight years. The PDC has, has of course also provided a huge price fund which is also this year historical. In, in New York we have £100,000 in the, in the even last year. So, so bigger price pool and the PDC making a very, very nice product. Tickets are still what I would say, not cheap, but at least affordable. Where we see in other sports, both your sports in the US and also the European sports, that ticket prices are simply exploding through the roof. So in general, more people are, are getting their eyes open for darts being very, very accessible. You don't need to be a huge fan. You don't need to know who Michael Van Gorlin or Matt Campbell or whoever is. So darts is extremely accessible for both young and old.
- [08:08]
Chad Millman
So explain. You just mentioned a couple of the guys who are the people that, the players that people need to know as they think about betting for the weekend and which quite frankly in the US there's not a ton of stuff to bet on as we're heading into, you know, out of the basketball season.
- [08:26]
Advertising Host
Who are the people?
- [08:27]
Chad Millman
Why are they so charismatic? What makes them so popular?
- [08:30]
Benjamin Leander
I think it's impossible not to mention teenage sensation and upcoming defending world champion and upcoming many, many, many, many, many times world champion. He is the picture and the face of darts right now. 16 years old when he participated at his first World Dance Championship and world champion at the age of 17. Look at this. One of the greatest sets of darts potentially we have ever seen at the World Championship. He's gone through the gears and this is for the match to win the match with one of the most astonishing sets of darts you'll ever see from Luke the Nuke Littler. You cannot contain this lad's talent and ability and brute strength as a Dartmouth. He's participating of course in New York. Did it as well last year, but lost to G. Price, also a big name to. To keep an eye on due to both. Due to his, his skills on the stage, but also because Price is the face of what darts can also be. Former rugby professional in his home country Wales decided to give darts ago 10 years ago and got crowned world champion. So completely shifted sports like another Michael Jordan from, from basketball to baseball, maybe even more successful. And we have tons of faces. Luke Humphreys, the world number one also very, very good guy. A guy everyone likes on the tour where Lither and Price are dividing opinions. Maybe a little more then I would say for the Americans. We have a very special case with Jules van Dun. Born in the Netherlands but is representing the US he is at the moment suffering from dartitis. Please don't laugh. It's, it's, it's a real thing where you are struggling with the dart in your hand to release it at a proper time. And Jules has suffered from this for over a year now. Was a really, really, is still a really, really good player but has suffered so much from this dart thing that he actually spent hours and hours and weeks and months changing his throw from right to left handed. Imagine doing that in any sport. Imagine Tom Brady suddenly saying I can release the ball when throwing for my wide receiver, so now I'll use my left hand. Jules van Dongen actually did that. He is in the middle of a process and he's still playing, playing at a much lower level than before. But he will participate in New York. And I think everyone in the Doris universe is cheering for Jules to finally have a, a good experience on the stage because he has really suffered for the last year or, or even one and a half. So, so he is definitely the guy that everyone in the, in the American dart world will cheer for this, this week.
- [11:45]
Chad Millman
So basically Jules got the yips like he just couldn't do it anymore.
- [11:49]
Benjamin Leander
I mean it's, you wouldn't see it in any other sports. I mean looking at any NBA player not being able to, to release the ball or any soccer player, you wouldn't see Messi say I can't shoot, I can't shoot. But yeah, he is suffering from, from the, yeah, the dartitis which is of course a physical condition but also this mental condition where you just, you can't make it right.
- [12:18]
Chad Millman
I mean that's heartbreaking. Dude, I feel terrible, I feel terrible for this guy. How did it even like, how did it start to become known and then like what was his process for trying to change it? Like I've tried to throw darts left handed. You know, darts becomes one of those things where everyone feels like they know how to do it because it's accessible at every bar and pub throughout the world. It's really hard to be that coordinated, to be able to change hands.
- [12:51]
Benjamin Leander
It is an exceptional case. I mean he, he suffered from, from some kind of wrist condition in the start and then he, it somehow got worse. So it is the mix between an injury where you keep throwing in the wrong way and suddenly your wrist and your underarm becomes a great issue, combined with your head saying I can't throw like this. I need to, to kind of do something that I'm not used to. So that's simply suffering from dartitis and many darts players have been through it. Even Nathan Aspinall, who will also participate this or was supposed to participate this year, but is being replaced by Australian Damon Hatter. Has suffered from it on stage during this year's Premier League but has come back from it actually delivered many, many good matches. But, but in Jules case it's, it's been going on for over a year now and he is luckily recovering from it. But it's a very, very long process.
- [13:55]
Chad Millman
You know this. This year's competition is Europeans versus North America. Are Europeans known as being better players historically than the Americans?
- [14:12]
Benjamin Leander
Yes, definitely. Darts has been evolving very slowly on, on every other continent than. Than Europe. We've seen still South America. I mean in almost every other sport like soccer, basketball, okay maybe not hockey but, but almost every other sport you would have South America, Africa, Asia even having at least one dominant player. It's been a very, very slow evolvement in these, in these continents because the Professional Dance Corporation have not succeeded bringing the game to other continents than Europe where everything has been focused on European tour. The world does championships being played in, in London every year. And now discussions have come to do we need to put the World Championships another place than London. Could it be played outside Europe even? Because the sport is on the rise in so many, in so many different continents. Asia has had a huge success of players coming in. We've seen it at the, the World cup of Darts that was held a couple weeks ago where you play in teams as in pairs of two. Jules Van Dun competed for, for the USA along with Daniel Louby who will also be playing this week. And Canada had Jim Long and Matt Campbell who will also participate in New York this week. But, but traditionally the Americans have had a tough time. When playing the US Darts Masters in 2023, Canadian Jeff Smith actually went all the way to the final. He beat Luke Humphreys, the current number one. He had other very, very good matches against Peter Wright with the with the Mohawk. Very, very good player as well. And then he beat Michael Smith also, but lost eventually in the final 8 nil to to Michael Van Gogh, another legend of of the of the sport. But he is the only player that have processed after round two. We have the eight American players joining in in the first round. Then you have the quarterfinals, round two, the semifinals, round three and then the final. And Jeff Smith is the only North American who has processed from round two.
- [16:29]
Advertising Host
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- [17:56]
Dan Flores
The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. Hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores and brought to you by Velvet Buck, this podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best selling author and meat eater founder Stephen Rinella.
- [18:27]
Advertising Host
I'll correct my kids now and then. We're the say when cave people were here. And I'll say it seems like the.
- [18:32]
Benjamin Leander
Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves.
- [18:36]
Dan Flores
So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.
- [18:48]
Podcast Announcer
Listen to The American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [18:56]
Chad Millman
All right, so you sort of got into the format a little bit. This is a betting show. Darts came on the scene largely because I think a lot of people started betting on it. Like with a lot of sports, sort of the popularity trails behind the betting influence and darts certainly falls into that category. So how do you bet on darts? What's like, what's a comparison that people who haven't done it before could hold on to so they can understand it.
- [19:28]
Podcast Announcer
A little bit better?
- [19:30]
Benjamin Leander
I don't think that tennis is a bad comparison because in tennis you have two players who are shifting between serving. You're also serving in darts where one player of course has to throw before the matches. The players gather in front of the board and then you throw closest to the bullseye and the player closest to bullseye is starting the match, which is of course a big advantage since we are playing first to six legs. Both players start on 501 points and will then play down eventually to zero points. And if the game is tied at 5 5, you play the, the ultimate round of the match. Of course, then the player who won the bullseye before the match will throw in the, in the deciding leg, which is a huge advantage. And just like in tennis, yeah, you're serving in darts, one can say, I mean, in tennis you have your serve where one player can be bad at the, at the. At playing or hitting, but having a good serve. It's a little bit different, difficult in darts. But, but you have the ability of, of scoring, of course, pounding the, the triple 20 area where you get the most points. But in darts, you're only winning if you can finish on a double. The outer circle of the, of the board. And some players having a really tough time. I've seen top professional players just a month ago having to use 41 darts to finish one round. Chris Doby and. And an opponent needed 41 darts to finish one route. You and me could do around in 41 throws chat. I definitely wouldn't doubt.
- [21:12]
Chad Millman
Well, that's the thing is like sometimes I feel like you can get a double on the outer ring by accident. And these are the best dart throwers in the world who aren't able to end it. Is it because everything gets into their head, like what happens when it's time to close that they can't get to that final throw.
- [21:35]
Benjamin Leander
It's in their head. And then I mentioned the 2017 edition in Tropicana where the Queen. The crowd was completely silent. That's not the case in these days. The crowd is getting loud and some crowds are even getting hostile. In the World cup of darts 2 weeks ago we had Germany on home soil. They beat England with Luke Litter and Luke Humphreys, two of the three best players in the world. They beat them easily due to the crowd whistling and booing every time the Englishman was throwing. And I mean we can discuss is that good sporting ethics or, or what it is but, but I mean even if the, the Madison Square Garden crowd will not get hostile, it can still get into the heads of players. When you can't just get that double done and then you miss and you miss more and, and that's when. When both darts and betting becomes tough. The European players are playing later this season than normally. Normally. The US Dutch master has been in the first week of June latest of editions. Now it's in the end of June so it is colliding with some players holidays. All of these players have family so that might influence on European players going to America. Dealing with jet lag. We've seen it many times. There's always one or two of the European players who are really struggling and you don't know until you see them on stage and, and imagine something is wrong here. His darts are flying low, his darts are flying high. He's not mentally strong in this game and we won't know until, until we see the players on stage. But one of the cases I'm quite sure about is that we have Michael van Gerwin the, the Dutch giant who has won many world championships. He's been going through a divorce go splitting from his partner in many many years and haven't played in one month. So his condition is very questionable. Has he trained? Has he. He hasn't played. And how is he dealing going to to the USA without of course his family and, and with all these thoughts going through his head. So that is what you have to take into account when betting on the darts.
- [23:49]
Chad Millman
Dude, we got divorce, we got dartitis, we got heckling, we got jet lag, we got. We got rivalries, we got teenage up and comers. We got people who want to knock that kid down to size. Like darts has more drama than the Gilded Age. It is just a fantastic not entertained. You mention all these guys like darts isn't something and you mentioned the prize pool £100,000. What do these guys do for a living? Like these aren't professional athletes. What do they do? How are they practicing.
- [24:29]
Benjamin Leander
Money and darts have Gone so big that all of the players competing on this World Series tour that, that the US Darts Masters is, are completely professional. Winning millions of dollars and also having sponsors.
- [24:45]
Chad Millman
Wow.
- [24:45]
Benjamin Leander
That will easily top a lot of professional players. Not from the highest of, of, of clubs or athletes, but at least close. I mean winning the, the World Championships is guaranteeing you 500000 pounds equaling I would say what $700,000. And I would say that probably top 50 and or top 60 on the professional darts Corporation tour can make a living of darts. Of course, big difference from Luke Littler at the top, earning many, many, many, many, many, many thousands a year and then number 64 who could maybe do with a small part time job. But the hard thing for dodge players is that the top guys are guaranteed a place in the most tournaments where the qualifiers are not getting any part of the prize pool on this. They win a match, making it very, very hard. I mean in tennis you would see even the loser of the first round in the US Open receiving I guess rather big payment just for, yeah, showing up, maybe even losing three times, six nil. In darts there's been criticism of recent tournament structure changes where it favors the biggest players. But we have fewer occasions where we see upcoming talents. Sensational qualifiers winning four matches in one day and participating in their first, first televised tournament ever. That's making life hard also for potential American players. Where we are having this tournament we're having four North American players participating due to the fact that they have won a tour card. Just like when you are competing for two card in golf, you have it on, on the darts too as well, giving you the permission to attend these tournaments. But you have to win, win it and that is very, very tough to do. So so, so in this tournament we have, like I said before, we have Daniel Lobby, we have Jules, we have Jim Long, we have Matt Campbell who are playing professionally on, on the PDC tour. And then we have four qualifiers, Leonard Gates that we bunt and then Adam Savada and Jason Brandon who will be playing as part timers. So there is a huge gap between the big guys making the big money and then some of the qualifying players we will see during Friday and Saturday.
- [27:28]
Chad Millman
All right, so we've run through the lineup, we've run through the format, we've run through the drama. Give us your best bets for the tournament.
- [27:37]
Benjamin Leander
We have yet to see the draw which will obviously have great importance in terms of which players will be placed in what brackets, what opponents and stuff like that. But like I mentioned before, I would very much like to bet against Michael Van Gogh when if he gets any other opponents than an inexperienced Jason Brandon, if he gets drawn against a young guy like Adam Savada who is getting very, very big amounts of praise in the dark community, can maybe be the next big thing in us starts. I would definitely like to take Adam maybe not to win the match, but then to cover it by a handicap. They play a first of first to three legs and if I can get something like Adam with with three or or two legs in front, I think that will be be a great bet. And then of course Luke Littler, the teenage sensation, uh, he has this hunger of winning tournaments that, that he haven't won yet and he got defeated in his debut last year in New York by going price. So I think he will be very, very motivated. Also thinking about this huge disaster that it was that him and partner Luke Humphries was defeated in the first match at the World Cup. So I think we'll see motivated Luke Litter, motivated Luke Humphreys and then Michael Van Gon with a big question mark.
- [29:02]
Chad Millman
Out of of his form, I feel fully breathed. Benjamin Leander from his kitchen in Denmark with the greatest darts breakdown we've had in the history of the Favorites podcast. Thanks for coming on the show, brother. We will return with our next episode of the Favorites Tuesday on The Action Network YouTube page. Download from Spotify Apple Pods wherever you get your pods rate, Review, Subscribe. Leave us. Five stars. Say whatever you want.
- [29:30]
Advertising Host
Feedback is a gift.
- [29:31]
Chad Millman
Until next time. Love you.
- [29:39]
Dan Flores
Action Network reminds you, please gamble responsibly.
- [29:43]
Chad Millman
If you or someone you care about.
- [29:45]
Benjamin Leander
Has a gambling problem, help is available 24. 7@1-800- gambler why is a soap opera.
- [29:52]
Dan Flores
Western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6, where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.
- [30:13]
Podcast Announcer
Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [30:20]
Memphis Bleak
What up y' all? This your main man, Memphis Bleak right here. Host the rock solid podcast. June is Black Music Month. So what better of celebrating and listening to my exclusive conversation with my bro, Ja Rule. The one thing they can't stop you or take away from you is knowledge. So whatever I went through while I was down in prison for two years through that process, learn, learn from. Check out this exclusive episode with Ja Rule on Rock Solid. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Rock solid and listen now.
- [30:50]
Podcast Announcer
Hi, I'm Sarah Spain, host of Good Game with Sarah Spain and the co author of the new book Runs in the Family, an incredible true story of Football, Fatherhood and belonging, written with and about Las Vegas Raiders running backs coach Dylan McCullough. It's the story of a football coach and father of four who sees his life forever changed by the unsealing of his adoption records. And it's got a twist you won't believe. Based on the viral ESPN story I did a few years ago, this book will blow your mind and bring you to tears. By Runs in the Family Wherever books are sold, this is an I Heart podcast.