THE HERD - Hour 1 - Ben Johnson is missed in Detroit, the Broncos will be fine under Sean Payton

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd: Hour 1 – Ben Johnson Is Missed in Detroit, the Broncos Will Be Fine Under Sean Payton

Date: December 4, 2025
Host: Colin Cowherd
Guest Analyst: Bruce Feldman

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Episode Overview

In this episode of The Herd, Colin Cowherd dives into the NFL's hottest topics: the fallout for the Detroit Lions after the loss of offensive coordinator Ben Johnson, why he believes the Denver Broncos’ recent string of close wins is sustainable under Sean Payton, and broader conversations about NFL coaching, sustainable success, and the state of professional and college sports. Colin is joined by Bruce Feldman to analyze headlines, including playoff logistics, powerhouse NFL storylines, and notable college football developments.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dallas vs. Detroit Preview: Trends and Coaching Make the Difference

• Dallas (Cowboys) on the Rise: Both Colin and JMac are confident the Cowboys will win comfortably against the Lions, citing team health, trending performance, and confidence.
  • “I think Dallas wins by a touchdown or more tonight. I think a lot of the NFL is trends and which way you’re headed. I think Dallas is headed in the right direction.” (Colin, 03:52)
• Lions Player Talent vs. Coaching Loss: While the Lions have strong personnel, Colin attributes their step back not to injuries or players, but the loss of Ben Johnson, their former offensive coordinator now coaching the Bears.
  • “You want to know why Detroit’s not as good? They lost Ben Johnson, the offensive coordinator. Now he’s the coach of the Bears and the Bears are looking down at the Lions. That’s it.” (Colin, 04:14)
• Historical Examples: Comparing Ben Johnson’s departure to pivotal leadership changes at companies like Nike (Phil Knight) and Apple (Steve Jobs), he asserts you "can't replace brilliance."
  • “It's really impossible to replace brilliance… You just can't replace McVay and Shanahan on a staff. Arguably the two best coaches in the league after Andy Reid and I'll die on this hill.” (Colin, 05:30)

2. The Broncos: Winning Close Games Is a Sign of Good Coaching

• Is Denver’s Success Sustainable? Colin strongly refutes the notion that the Broncos’ string of close victories is a fluke. He points to the coaching acumen of Sean Payton, likening the approach to the Belichick-era Patriots and Andy Reid teams.
  • “People are basically saying what Denver is doing is not sustainable. You can't keep winning in the fourth quarter like Denver's doing. And I would say no, that's absolutely sustainable.” (Colin, 07:07)
• Winning by Details: He draws attention to the way teams like New England won consistently by mastering details: minimizing fumbles, excelling on special teams, and situational coaching.
  • “It’s absolutely coaching and details… Fewest sacks allowed. That’s coaching. Third-down defense. Red zone defense. That’s situational coaching.” (Colin, 08:44)
• Data on Close Games: The coaches with the best records in one-score games are all offensive-minded. Colin considers close-game wins to build character and unity, while “winning by blowouts, that’s not sustainable.”
  • “Being good on third down offensively, not getting sacked a lot. That's coaching, that’s sustainable.” (Colin, 11:39)
• Sean Payton’s Motivational Style:
  • “I hate losing more than anything, like in the world. And so I think fear of failure is a very significant motivating factor from a detail standpoint. And, you know, there's nothing that's too small, that's not significant…” (Sean Payton, 11:55)

3. Contested Narratives: Lane Kiffin and Ole Miss

• Colin weighs in on the emotional fallout at Ole Miss after Lane Kiffin’s departure to LSU, stressing perspective and the unreliability of emotionally charged narratives.
  • “Ole Miss got dumped and they're angry. And you could argue they have a right to be angry. But I don't suddenly believe everything Ole Miss players and the athletic director and the boosters and the donors are saying.” (Colin, 20:36)
• Joel Klatt adds that while Kiffin’s move is understandable, the manner has consequences for credibility.
  • “He did leave those players high and dry. That's going to hurt his credibility moving forward.” (Joel Klatt via Colin, 23:22)
• Colin sums up: focus on what's ahead, not bitterness.

4. NFL/College Football News Roundup (25:00–32:20)

• Shedeur Sanders vs. Cam Ward (25:00):
  • Colin: “Cam Ward’s a much greater talent. I think Shedeur Sanders is a more fascinating story… I like Cleveland.” (25:04)
  • Bruce jokes about betting trust in Browns covering with Shedeur Sanders.
• Josh Allen’s Rushing Record (26:43):
  • Discussion of Allen’s place among running backs for rushing scores, and the importance of QB durability.
  • “Durability is a huge thing. Eli Manning, Brett Favre, Tom Brady. Durability is a huge thing.” (Colin, 28:28)
• College Football Playoff Snub Drama:
  • Marcus Freeman (Notre Dame) frustrated at Alabama leapfrogging them. Discussion about lack of logical consistency in selection, and debate over big programs vs. statistical fairness.
  • “When you get to the final 12 teams, nobody wins a national championship that doesn’t recruit at an elite level. So why are we trying to fool ourselves…?” (Colin, 29:40)
  • “Why can't they just do that?” (Bruce Feldman, on playoff logic, 30:55)

5. NBA: Giannis, Milwaukee, and the Value of Flexibility (32:24–40:30)

• Milwaukee’s Dilemma: Giannis and his agent are discussing his future as the Bucks face relevance and flexibility issues.
  • “They don’t control any of their first-round picks until I think it’s 2031 and they’re going to be paying Damian Lillard $20 million a year for the next four or five years. They're in a bad spot in Milwaukee, they're not relevant in the East.” (Colin, 33:36)
• Comparing Franchise Mindsets:
  • “The Green Bay Packers... have moved off icons... Milwaukee now... terrified to acknowledge that.” (Colin, 32:48)
• Rise of College Talent and NBA Draft Value:
  • The NIL is keeping more top talent in college, improving NBA draft depth, and making picks more valuable.
  • “Over the last two to three years, have you noticed how good the NBA draft’s getting? Why? Because guys like Zach Edey are staying one more year in college because of NIL.” (Colin, 34:46)
• Should Bucks Trade Giannis?
  • Colin advocates for a reset: “With Giannis you could get four first-round picks and in an improved draft. I would give up four first round picks.” (36:18)
• OKC as Trade Partner:
  • They discuss potential packages for Giannis to OKC, debating roster construction and strategic risk-taking.
  • “I would trade my third-best player for Giannis.” (Colin, 39:59)

6. Baseball’s Salary Cap Debate and Health of the Sport (45:48–50:24)

• Salary Cap Argument: Colin sides with Dodgers manager Dave Roberts in opposing restrictions at the top unless there’s a floor for low-spending teams.
  • “If you’re going to kind of suppress spending at the top, I think that you got to raise the floor to make those bottom feeders spend money too.” (Dave Roberts, 46:28)
• Big vs. Small Market Success: LA’s deferments are noted, but the sport thrives due to smart franchise operation and big-swinging brands, not just money.
  • “Baseball is on fire because of Rob Manfred’s changes, because the big markets are crushing, and because it’s not as lopsided as you want to believe it is. There’s a lot of small market stories doing really well.”* (Colin, 48:17)

7. College Football and NIL Effects (50:24–52:50)

• NIL Impact: Colin highlights how the NIL has leveled the playing field, with schools like USC, Oregon, and Notre Dame thriving over “traditional” SEC dominance.
  • “I predicted when the NIL happened… SEC will still be very good, but it won’t be as dominant.” (Colin, 50:24)
• Changing Booster Power: Big Ten programs benefit from deeper-pocketed boosters ("car maker" vs. "car dealer" analogy).
• Vanderbilt as a Surprise Power:
  • “Vandy is the heady school in the South… They're pretty good. Everybody thought the NIL would squish the little guy. It's hurt the big guy.” (Colin, 52:44)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the importance of coaching over personnel:
  “It’s really impossible to replace brilliance." (Colin, 04:35)
• On details winning in the NFL:
  “Highly organized people don't need wide margins.” (Colin, 12:09)
• Bruce Feldman’s playoff snark:
  “They're beating bad teams in close games… This is like Davis Mills, okay? This is the Raiders 10-7 at home.” (Bruce, 14:06)
• On trading Giannis and franchise flexibility:
  “The smartest people I've ever met in any industry… flexibility. They crave flexibility.” (Colin, 36:18)
• Colin's analogy on NIL's impact in the SEC:
  “Alabama territory, your number two or three booster can be a car dealer. In the Big Ten, it's a car maker.” (Colin, 51:17)

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Timeline of Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Segment | |-----------|---------------| | 03:37 | Cowboys vs. Lions, importance of coaching (Ben Johnson argument) | | 07:07 | Broncos’ close wins and why it’s sustainable | | 12:09 | Value of coaching, close margins, Sean Payton soundbite | | 19:42 | Lane Kiffin/Ole Miss narrative reliability | | 24:35 | NFL/CFB headlines—Shedeur Sanders, Josh Allen, CFB Playoff rankings | | 32:24 | Bucks/Giannis trade speculation, NBA draft value, flexibility | | 45:48 | MLB salary cap debate, big vs. small market success | | 50:24 | NIL and college football landscape shift |

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Conclusion

In summation, Colin Cowherd leverages current headlines to reinforce his philosophies about sports: that coaching and operational details drive lasting success, franchise flexibility is critical, and that emotional reactions are rarely reliable indicators of long-term outcomes. The episode offers a multilayered critique of trends in the NFL, NBA, MLB, and college football, punctuated by bold opinions, entertaining analogies, and a distinctively “Herd” perspective.

Transcript

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[Colin Cowherd]

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Thursday Night Football is on. This week the Dallas Cowboys take on the Detroit Lions in a new rivalry with lots of heat. Coverage begins at 7pm Eastern and it's.

[Colin Cowherd]

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Not a Prime member? Not a problem. Simply sign up for a 30 day free trial. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details. Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S and P. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member finra, SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures Wasabi is.

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Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.

Here we go. Cowboys playing a night against the Detroit Lions. Greg Cosell, one hour from now to break it all down. What's wrong with Detroit? What is right with Dallas?

Maybe in LA next week in Chicago. Today it's the Herd. Wherever you may may be, however you may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. I and JMac both like Dallas tonight. I think Dallas wins by a touchdown or more tonight. I think a lot of the NFL is trends and which way you're headed. I think Dallas is headed in the right direction. Playing with a ton of confidence now. Healthier than they've been all season. So you and I agree on that. Let's just start with this. So the Cowboys over under win total to start the year was seven and a half. I said bet the under. Detroit's was ten and a half. Ten and a half. I said bet the under. And here we are week 14 and they're pretty much the same. But I think I'd rather be Dallas. I do. I like where they're trending. And you Everybody's telling me it's injuries or it's the Frank Ragnow retirement or it's Jared Goff. You want to know why Detroit's not as good? They lost Ben Johnson, the offensive coordinator. Now he's the coach of the Bears and the Bears are looking down at the Lions. That's it. It's almost impossible. It's not hard. It's really impossible to replace brilliance. I remember Nike 2004, Phil Knight steps down. His CEO, Nike 1 of 1, a powerhouse, immediately starts losing market share to Adidas. Here comes Phil. He comes back. We all know the story of Steve Jobs left Apple. Apple was a powerhouse. They begged to have him back. Ten years later, it's hard to replace excellent people. I think Ben Johnson's different. I mean, what a shock. Suddenly the Bears are as good as any team in the league. Running the football they weren't last year. And suddenly now the Lions are horrible on third down. How with that offensive line? How would Jameer Gibbs with a veteran quarterback? How they're good at tight end, wide receiver, How? Because they lost Ben Johnson. That's it. I, I remember when Washington, you remember this, had Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan and Matt LaFleur in the building with Washington. They were making the playoffs. Those guys left. I mean it wasn't until last year, for one year that the regression stopped. Now they're bad again. You just can't replace McVeigh and Shanahan on a staff. Arguably the two best coaches in the league after Andy Reid and I, I, I'll die on this hill.

The greater the talent you lose.

The wider the search has to be. You lose Jim Harbaugh, Michigan, you can't go in house. You lose Ben Johnson, you can't go in house. The bigger the shoes I have to fill, the more feet I need to see. And when I watch the Lions, it's not Frank Ragnow, it's not Omaron St. Brown is banged up, it's not Jared Goff, doesn't have mobility, didn't have it the previous three years. They're just not quite as clever and not quite as unique even amongst really good people. Jerry Jones said Dak is irreplaceable. Mike is great, but replaceable. And, and Mike is really good. He leaves Dallas is now second in the NFL and pressures. It's like we're actually better without Micah because we got some draft picks and made some deals. So, but, but I mean Miami still looking to find the next Marino. How many quarterbacks they had? 40. I mean literally. Denver to replace Elway, had to go get an old Peyton Manning. So it's just, it's the Lions lost an all time offensive coordinator, an all time guy and I love Dallas tonight. Nothing quite feels the same when I watch them. The players are great. It's not injuries, they've been injury plagued previous years. It's not the gm, he's great. They just lost an all timer who's now with the Bears. So I saw a story this morning and it said the Broncos are the second NFL team in history to win four straight games by three points or less. People are basically saying what Denver is doing is not sustainable. You can't keep winning in the fourth quarter like Denver's doing. And I would say no, that's absolutely sustainable. What's not sustainable is, is when The Patriots went 10 years without winning a Super Bowl. And those Randy Moss years when you're scoring 50 and winning by three touchdowns. They didn't win a Super bowl that year. Every other Super Bowl Belichick and Brady were in in New England, all but one were one possession games. For the record, Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback ever in one possession games. 68% of games. 68% in one score game. By the way, highest winning percentage when trailing in the fourth quarter the last two seasons. Andy Reid and Sean Payton. So don't tell me it's Mahomes because none of you like Bo Nix. It's the coach. Football has always been a game of inches. I go back to the New England dynasty. Winning close is totally sustainable. The New England dynasty. The two things that always jump out beyond Belichick and Brady are they never fumbled. Honest to God, I was in New England at the time. They never fumbled and they were always way above average on special teams. They didn't lead the league in sacks very often. They didn't lead the league in touchdowns very often. When I look at Denver, it's absolutely coaching and details. For instance, fewest sacks allowed. That's coaching. How do I know that's coaching? Because Caleb Williams last year was the most sacked quarterback. This year he's one of the least sacked. They change coaches, right? So like it is coaching and demanding, not pandering. Bo Nix, not a big strong guy breaking tackles from defensive ends. He doesn't get sacked. His dad was a coach. He takes to coaching Sean Payton. They're also great on third down defense. Why? That's situational coaching. Red zone defense, situational coaching. And so when I look at New England's dynasty, it was all about details. I don't know how many times they led the NFL in total offense. I would wager it wasn't as many as you think. I don't know how many times they led the league in touchdowns by the Randy Mosh years. They didn't win Super Bowls. So I've always thought like Andy Reid, Sean Payton. In fact, I looked this morning at the top five last two years. The top five winning percentages, winning at coaches in one score games, it's all offensive coaches. No Mike Tomlin up there, it's all offensive coaches. So to me, this idea that what Denver's doing is not sustainable. I love NBA teams and, and, and baseball teams and pro football teams that win close. I think it builds character, it builds unity. Winning by blowouts, that's not sustainable. If you're doing that in the NFL, you're probably doing it because you have a really good rookie quarterback on a rookie deal. And then when you have to eventually pay him and have to get rid of stars, you're not winning by that. That's not sustainable. You don't see NFL teams going four years, blowing people out. You rarely get a year like that. But winning, close. Annie Reid, Sean Peyton, Tom Brady, totally sustainable to me. Being good on third down offensively, not getting sacked a lot. That's coaching, that's sustainable. Here's Sean Payton on the way Denver's winning. I hate losing more than anything, like in the world. And so I think fear of failure is a very significant motivating factor from a detail standpoint. And you know, there's nothing that's too small, that's not significant, that has to exist outside the lines as well.

Yeah, I mean, I think highly organized people don't need wide margins. Right? Highly organized people don't need wide margins. I can read about a pro athlete that can't retire on $100 million and I'm like, well, I know schoolteachers that are retired on one and live very comfortable, great lives. If you need $100 million to retire comfortably, you're not great on the details. You're not very efficient. It's a quality of life at one or two million dollars in retirement. JMac. We both like the Dallas Cowboys tonight. Greg Cosell in one hour.

[Bruce Feldman]

I was just looking at your Broncos, Colin. So not only do they struggle on the road this season, winning a bunch of close games, but they face four backup quarterbacks this season. And guess who they got this week? The Raiders. And they are huge favorites in a dangerous game.

[Colin Cowherd]

But, you know, the last two years, who's led the NFL and point differential? Lions. Ravens. How'd they do in the playoffs? They're not, they're not ready for it. Denver and Chicago are like, yeah, we've been in close games. Denver's trailed every game this year at one point. So the lion, the Ravens the last two years before this year. But last year and the year before, we saw this all the time. NFC teams that played Baltimore just got destroyed it does you no value in the playoffs winning close. To me, it builds a confidence in close games. I mean, if you go back to Michael Jordan's great highlights, the first one you think about that Cleveland series, it's a game winning shot because they trailed or the Utah shot, game winning shot because they trailed. Michael Jordan's highlights with the, against the Knicks, you know, even Michael Jordan and the greatest team ever and the greatest player ever. Do you know how many like grueling six game series they were in, how many times they actually lost at home? You got to win close and I think it builds stuff beyond just a.

[Bruce Feldman]

W. The only thing is they're, they're beating bad teams in close games. Those, Michael Jordan, they were, those were epic playoff games. This is like Davis Mills, okay? This is the Raiders 10, 7 at home. I will just caution you after this Raiders game this week. Packers, Jags, Chiefs, Chargers, that will be the true serum for the Broncos. They'll probably go one and three or two and two down the str. What are, what are you laughing at? Come on, these are all playoff teams.

[Colin Cowherd]

I, I have been hearing this now for weeks about the Chicago Bears. Oh, this game's true serum. Yeah, they just went to Philly.

[Bruce Feldman]

That was a great win and knock.

[Colin Cowherd]

The barn door over. You know, like guys, they keep winning like Denver. Well, this, this one, this next one, I saw them play Kansas City and I was told, oh, this game against the Chiefs will be true serum. They won that one.

[Bruce Feldman]

Not by me. I was on the Broncos, that one. But by the way, do you have Broncos super bowl futures? Are you going to put down some, some, some bucks?

[Colin Cowherd]

I don't, I don't divulge all my super bowl future, but put your money.

[Bruce Feldman]

Where your mouth is, big guy.

[Colin Cowherd]

I picked Denver to win the division. I think their roster is great. I like Bo Nicks and Sean Payton. Is bumpy September better every month. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Hey, it's Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington from the Odd Couple on Fox Sports Radio. And in addition to hearing us live weeknights from 7 to 10pm Eastern on Fox Sports Radio, we are excited to announce brand new YouTube channel for the show. That's right. You can now watch the Odd couple live on YouTube every day. All you got to do, search Odd Couple FSR on YouTube again. YouTube. Just search Odd Couple FSR. Check us out on YouTube and subscribe.

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[Colin Cowherd]

You're now entering the no Bull Zone, sponsored by credible great rates. None of the bull. So when I got a job in Vegas out of college, I love boxing. And boxing was really exploding. Thomas Hitman Hearn, Sugar Ray Leonard, Marvin Hagler. And I would go to these boxing events. It was amazing, these fights. And there'd be three judges, each sitting in a different part of the ring. And that's because you can all see a different fight based on the angle. And so I'm reading a story this morning that Ole Miss players and Ole Miss athletic director dispute Lane Kiffin's version of what was said as he left Folks, different angles. Where are you sitting? I mean, movie critics. Gene Siskel, one of the great movie critics of all time, didn't like Silence of the Lambs. Sorry. You know, they rarely agreed on movies. I mean, he and Ebert. So the bottom line is there's three sides to every story. Your side, my side, and the truth, as they say. So Ole Miss ad ole misses players. They're bitter, they're angry, they got dumped. They're emotional, they're scorned. They're going to hear things one way. Lane Kiffin leaving ole Ms. To LSU is hyped, optimistic, energized. Can't wait, maybe, maybe a little guilt. But he's hungry and aggressive and thinks he did his job the right way at Ole Miss. And there's a reason we need divorce attorneys, somebody, somebody to come in without emotion and make a decision. Ole Miss got dumped and they're angry. And you could argue they have a right to be angry. But I don't suddenly believe everything Ole Miss players and the athletic director and the boosters and the donors are saying. All of us, when dumped, are overly emotional or at least emotional. So I've argued from the beginning. You knew what you were getting when you hired him. And Ole Miss, maybe not for all programs, but for Ole Miss, it was better to have had Lane Kiffin and lost him than to have not had Lane Kiffin at all. An Ole Miss. The College Football Playoff starts in two weeks. Everybody's betting against you. Why? Because you go to the airport, flip people off and scream ugly things, and you're not concentrating on your players and your game plan and your team. I understand being angry, but I'm less inclined to listen to people who are highly emotional.

If you're highly emotional as a coach, a Little League dad, a soccer or pageant moment, I'm not really interested in your opinion. Okay? So this idea that Lane. Lane is just, you know, he's just embellishing it. He's hungry, he's excited. It's signing day. It's a new job. I've had four new jobs in my life. You can't see straight. You're so happy. Got a new challenge. You're putting together a staff at signing day. You can't wait. I couldn't even get my hair right. The bottom line is, the faster Ole Miss gets over it, the better chance they have to win in the College Football Playoff. Now, Joel Klatt and I just. Here's Joel Klatt's.

Opinion on Lane leaving the way Lane left. I don't begrudge this man his movement, and he's going to go. And he thought LSU was going to be a better opportunity for he and his family, you know, more power to him. But that doesn't mean that there are not consequences to those decisions. And he did leave a team high and dry, and he left those players high and dry. That's going to hurt his credibility moving forward. And he also went to a place that, let's face it, is not as. As sound. Foundationally. They might have more resources, but it's certainly a lot more crazy at lsu. It's like, listen, you know, you can go with a six to prom, and that six is going to be committed to you. You take the nine.

She might be crazy. I think LSU and Lane Kiffin both are a little crazy. It's not a 30 year marriage. It's going to be like a three or four year relationship. And I can't wait to watch. Hollywood divorces are far more interesting than stable 30 year marriages. Not saying they're better for society or better for the kids. Yeah, Lane's a little crazy. LSU's a little crazy. Okay. There is a reason eyewitness testimony is the least reliable evidence. People are highly emotional. Take a deep breath, Ole Miss. Concentrate on you keep the thing the thing. Bitterness doesn't win playoff games. J Mac with the news. No, no, no. Turn on the news.

[Bruce Feldman]

This is the herd line news. All right, let's bust right into it. Shedeur Sanders versus Cam Ward on Sunday. Feel the excitement, Colin. Two big names from the 2025 NFL Draft. Ward went one. Shedeur kind of tumbled down draft boards. Shedeur obviously said there's no added motivation here. Saying he just wants to win the game and play well.

Your thoughts, Colin, on this hugely important matchup?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, I think Cam Ward's a much greater talent. I think Shedeur Sanders is a more fascinating story. I think Cleveland at home is going to win this football game. I have strongly considered it for the blazing five inclusion. I got to get back in my winning ways.

[Bruce Feldman]

I think you're bet you're backing Shador Sanders laying four and a half.

[Colin Cowherd]

My take is anything between four and five points. I generally like the favorites because Vegas doesn't want to make anybody minus four minus five. They want to make you minus three. And I think it tells you that Cleveland's a much better football team. There are things Cleveland does every single week that they're exceptional in. Tennessee doesn't do anything consistently at an exceptional level. And I get the home team with the significantly better defense. I like Cleveland.

[Bruce Feldman]

Yeah. If you don't, if you play fantasy, you have to start the Browns defense this week. They probably could score 20 points on their own. I just can't, you know, fundamentally put my after tax dollars on the Browns with Shador Sanders needed to cover a spread. I mean, come on like that. That's a bridge too far for me.

[Colin Cowherd]

I will say Cleveland now is interesting to watch. I find myself turning into Cleveland games.

[Bruce Feldman]

You got to watch Miles Garrett. Is he going to set the record? He may do it this week. Honestly. He may break the sack record this week. He might have another five bagger. All right, let's move on to Josh Allen and actually good quarterback. Sorry rookies. How about this wacky stat that our guys found? This is crazy. So he scored a rushing touchdown Sunday, his 76th. It's now. He's now the number one rushing touchdowns for quarterbacks. But here's what's crazy. He scored more rushing touchdowns than a lot of hall of Fame running backs. Allen's total ranks 25th in NFL history among all players.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's crazy. That's crazy.

[Bruce Feldman]

I mean, so our guy had a list here. Okay, Gail Sayers or Josh Allen? Who do you think has more rushing?

[Colin Cowherd]

Josh Allen. Gale Sayers had a short career.

[Bruce Feldman]

Okay, let's go. O.J. simpson or Josh Allen?

[Colin Cowherd]

I don't know whatever happened to OJ But I'd say a Josh Allen.

[Bruce Feldman]

Thurman Thomas or Josh Allen.

[Colin Cowherd]

Now that's closer. I would say Thurman Thomas, Josh Allen.

[Bruce Feldman]

Earl Campbell or Josh Allen. I mean, you could sense a theme here.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, yeah. No, I would say Josh Allen, Thurman Thomas. Was it close?

[Bruce Feldman]

It was close, yeah. Thurman Thomas had 65 and Josh Allen's at 76. But Thurman Thomas was integral.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Bruce Feldman]

I mean, this just goes to show, Josh Allen is. Is the man.

I won't ask the question. Sometimes they put questions here for me to ask. Colin, are the Bills wasting Josh Allen?

[Colin Cowherd]

They're not wasting it, but he is now moving toward the middle of his prime. The early years of it are done. Now he's in the middle of it, and you're getting to a point in three years he could be, like, moving out of the prime. When you run and get hit, you get about eight years.

[Bruce Feldman]

He's so good in the pocket.

[Colin Cowherd]

No. Yeah, but Cam and Big Ben got old really fast. I mean, Stafford's age quick. Stafford now is healthier than it felt like than when he first got to la. And I mean, I feel like Stafford's getting great protection this year. Stafford all of a sudden is not getting hit.

[Bruce Feldman]

It's funny releasing the ball quickly. Cam Newton couldn't win from the pocket like Josh Allen. No way. Now, Cam did take a bunch of hits, but he also had some off field stuff that didn't endear teams. I'll just say this about Josh Allen. Collin. He can stay healthy unlike Lamar Jackson and unlike Joe Burrow.

[Colin Cowherd]

That.

[Bruce Feldman]

I mean, like, I'm sorry, I know those guys are all going to be lumped together, but Mahomes and Allen don't get hurt.

[Colin Cowherd]

I've said this about Caleb Williams and Bo Nix. They don't take a lot of sacks now and they're durable. And I mean, durability is a huge thing. Eli Manning, Brett Favre, Tom Brady. Durability is a huge thing.

[Bruce Feldman]

All right, final story. Collins, Marcus Freeman, one of the best coaches in college Football. He's a little upset that Alabama leapt ahead of the Irish in the latest College Football Playoff rankings. Freeman said he disagreed. We have sound of Marcus Freeman a little ticked off about Alabama.

[Colin Cowherd]

Obviously you're disappointed, but more so because.

A little bit of confusion. You're confused.

In terms of what we could have done differently. Right. And why we fell. When we won 49 to 20, I think we were up 40, 42 to 6 going in the fourth quarter. You always look for cause and effect. You look for a reasoning why, you know, you go up or you fall.

[Bruce Feldman]

This is one of the problems. Colin and Bruce Feldman, I'm sure you read his column. I think he's coming on the show later. Like, there's no rhyme or reason to what they're doing. It's goofy. It's embarrassing.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, you know, the print media, certainly not talk radio, but print media has always had a soft spot for the little guy. I do not. I would take Miami and Notre Dame and Texas and put them in. I think when you get to the final 12 teams, nobody wins a national championship that doesn't recruit at an elite level. So why are we trying to fool ourselves, including, like the second best team here or the third? Like last year we had SMU in good program shouldn't be in a playoff. But if we're going to do this and kind of make exceptions so the little guy can play along, all right, that's fine. But we don't have the 12 best teams in. We just don't. What we should do, I think the better way to do it is do the 4, 4, 2, 2 thing they talked about, which is SEC gets 4, Big Ten gets 4, Big 12 gets 4.

ACC gets 2. I mean, that way at least you take the committee out of it. I would have no problem doing the five, five, two.

[Bruce Feldman]

But wait, well, hold on, hold on. Four, four, two is goofy because the fifth best team in the Big Ten could be better than the fourth best team in the sec, which would, you know. Or vice versa. I think you got to toss that out. I don't understand why they can't use logic and data and numbers which all show Notre Dame is a playoff team.

[Colin Cowherd]

Every.

[Bruce Feldman]

Every everything. You want to look at strength of schedule. Sagarin, the some of these SP plus some of these advanced stats. Like, why can't they just do that?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, they did. We used to have computers do it. Nobody liked it.

[Bruce Feldman]

Well, that was only two teams, right?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, I mean, you went from the media to the computers and now it's a committee. I mean, I don't think any of those are necessary. I don't think the NFL used computers. I don't think the NFL uses an arbitrary.

[Bruce Feldman]

Well, that's a pro league. Come on.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, college football now has never been more pro. You have a free agency period. Coaches make 10 million plus, there's a salary cap.

[Bruce Feldman]

Come on. In college basketball, there's beef about who makes the NCAA tournament. The problem is it's team like 68, right? You know, nobody, nobody cares. But when it's like big brands is a. Listen, if Notre Dame, Miami and Alabama all happen to miss, that's terrible for college football. You got to admit that.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, I again, I don't have this soft spot for the little guy. I'm not saying that Utah shouldn't get in. I don't consider them a little guy or like byu. I don't consider BYU with their huge nil money to be a little guy. They're a very solid program and if they go undefeated or only have one close loss. I watched BYU play Texas Tech. It wasn't competitive. That was, to me, that was their moment. And it was not couldn't move the ball. All right, you're not a playoff team and I don't lose any sleep over that. So Jay Mack with the news.

[Apollo Sales Representative]

Well, that's the news and thanks for.

[Bruce Feldman]

Stopping by the Herd lie news.

[Colin Cowherd]

So there is this story Shams is reporting that Giannis, Milwaukee Bucks star and his agent are now having conversations about his future and we'll know more in the next couple of weeks. So I mean, listen, Milwaukee's not even a legitimate team. A big time threat to win the east to, in the east, not the west, which may have like seven of the top eight teams. The East. One of the reasons I have so much respect for the Green Bay packers, they have moved off icons. Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers. Favre still had a lot in the tank. So Milwaukee's five times as big as Green Bay. It's the big city right next to Green Bay. I mean they even have in Milwaukee, they even have a Costco. And yet they act like Green Bay. Like the packers act like a big city team. You know, they move off guys, they move off icons. They're like a, they're, they're, they're run like a big city team. And Milwaukee now, it's like, come on, man, they're terrified to acknowledge that.

Listen, they don't control any of their first round picks until I think it's 2031 and they're going to be paying Damian Lillard 20 million a year for the next four or five years. They're in a bad spot in Milwaukee, they're not relevant in the East. The west has OKC and Denver. And I mean, go look at the west, go look at the standings in the West. I mean, look how good the Lakers are. And we're like, yeah, they couldn't win the West. So okc, the Green Bay packers of the NBA, okc, Sam Presti moved off, James Harden moved off, Paul George, traded Russell Westbrook. Those were wildly popular players. So it's just interesting to me. I think the Milwaukee Bucks need to kind of reset their draft picks. I mean, they don't control any of their first round picks. And the other thing that's scary about that is that for a long time, for about a 20 year period, first round NBA draft picks weren't that valuable because you know, you were getting guys.

That were 19 years old. What's happened because of the NIL college basketball now the next three picks next year are superstar level players and then the following 10 after that could be all stars. Over the last two to three years, have you noticed how good the NBA draft's getting? Why? Because guys like Zach edie are staying one more year in college because of nil. And the American colleges are poaching the top 12 to 15 European young guys. So college basketball is now incredibly watchable, packed with talent load the best teams, have multiple NBA players. You want your draft picks? Yeah. Milwaukee didn't control any of them for like 2031. So right now Giannis is out for a couple of weeks. Five of the top six teams records are in the west and Milwaukee's not viable in the East. Make a move. I mean the last three seasons with Giannis, who there's an argument he's been the first or second best player in the league last three years in the east, first round exits. So they're acting the packers down the road or up the road. I mean, they're moving off. It's hard to explain how below Favre was in Green Bay more. I mean Giannis is amazing. Favre was more beloved. Moved off him, moved off him. And he was still really good. Remember that Minnesota year too? He was still a Pro Bowler. So I think the smartest people I've ever met in any industry, they have one thing in common. It's not where they went to college.

It's not, it really isn't.

Flexibility. They crave flexibility. That's what Jerry Jones did. Like Cowboy fans did not want Jerry Jones to trade Micah and Jerry's like, I have to to get flexibility. The Bucks are bad in the East. They have no flexibility, don't control their draft picks. Pan Damian Lillard. They gotta take a big swing. They are stuck. You gotta get out of being stuck. That's why Jerry Jones didn't sign Micah. He's like, I gotta get unstuck. So it's almost like I'm telling Milwaukee, like, diversify your portfolio. And I love Giannis, but this is, it's not working. And I'm not being a hypocrite. I said this three years ago when they got really old, really fast. Like, guys, you got a title out of it, Restock the cupboard, get five. I mean, I think with Giannis and J. Mac, you may disagree. I think with Giannis you could get four first round picks and in an improved draft. Four. I would give up four first round picks.

[Bruce Feldman]

The problem is nobody really has that except really okc, which is scary and I don't think it'll happen. That's the problem. So, Colin, let's say there's nobody with four first round picks. Would you want to, would you want to clean up the books and just get like salary dose and a good player?

[Colin Cowherd]

You go to okc, give us Chad Holmgren, we'll give you Giannis, four first round picks and like a Lou Dort or another really good. You give me, I'll give you Giannis, I get. Because OKC could do it. Four first round picks. I need a big. Give me Chad Holmgren, who's younger. It may be a more natural and, and diversified offensive player, can shoot threes, can handle the ball. Well, you give me Homegren, you give me another starter. I need another good starter and a bench player.

[Bruce Feldman]

Well, they might want, they might want to move off Caruso or one of these guys that they got to pay again in a year or two. But that's interesting. Con, let me ask you. The Thunder just won the title. They are, I believe, 21 and one on pace to win 74 games. And you're going to break that up and bring on Giannis.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'm not giving up sga. I'm not giving up Jalen Williams, I'm not giving up Sam Presti, I'm not giving up the gm. I'd be giving up.

A starter who's not as good as Giannis, another starter and four picks.

[Bruce Feldman]

Well, it might take more than just one. It might take Caruso and Kason.

[Colin Cowherd]

Let me ask you this, what is OKC going to do with all these first round picks?

[Bruce Feldman]

Well, that's the thing. They can move off like there's players like 5, 6, 7, 8 are good. They're going to have to pay him. Just let them walk, don't pay them and bring on. They might. As of right now, OKC has two top 10 picks in the draft next year. That's terrifying for the league.

[Colin Cowherd]

Now Giannis makes what is it, 50 a year. Chad Holmgren makes 13. So you have to get the salaries to match. You may need a third. You may need a third team like Houston, fine.

[Bruce Feldman]

But yet salaries could match. Now that would be one of the best dynasties in NBA history. If you bring Giannis to okc, that'll rival the warriors and Durant and Curry, that'll rival Jordan's Bulls, would it not?

[Colin Cowherd]

It'll be, it'd be a great. This idea. Oh, you can't break stuff up. Remember when the. I always say you need to break stuff up like you every couple years because like maybe, maybe you don't. But at the trade deadline because OKC is the best team in the league and you're like, why should we take a chance on it to get Giannis, lose Holmgren, Lou Dort, four picks. You, you can't just sit. Howie Roseman can win a Super Bowl. You know what how he does in the off season, trades people.

[Bruce Feldman]

Yeah, but he's not trading Jalen hurts, Saquon Barkley, A.J. brown. He's not trading his core guys. You could do stuff around the edges. I mean, Chet's their third best player. He was their second best player in certain games last year.

[Colin Cowherd]

I would trade my third best player for Giannis.

[Bruce Feldman]

Third and four picks and two other guys. Yeah, that's a whole. I mean if you're the Bucks, that, that's a good. Yeah, it's a great get.

[Colin Cowherd]

If you get four picks, well, you're. They're trying to get unstuck. Yeah, you got to take a big swing on. I'm just throwing it out there. You got to get salaries to match.

[Bruce Feldman]

But I'm curious what the OKC fan. We have a lot of OKC fans. At least a dozen listen to this show. So I'm really curious what their thoughts. Sorry guys, I had to.

[Colin Cowherd]

Greg Cosell, Top of next hour, it's the Herd.

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Podcast/Ad Announcer]

Support for the show comes from public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosure [e-mail] Disclosures this is Sophie.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Cunningham from Show Me Something do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea or OSA in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing. If anyone has ever said you snored loudly, or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at don'tsleep on OSA.com this information is provided by Lilly, a medicine.

[Apollo Sales Representative]

Company tired of juggling sales tools or spending hours on prospecting just to book a few meetings? Meet Apollo, the Go to Market platform for finding leads, connecting with buyers and closing deals all in one place. Apollo gives you access to over 210 million contacts and AI that handles all your busywork, finding leads, drafting emails and even prioritizing your day. So stop paying for five different sales tools when one does it all. Visit Apollo I.O. and sign up free today.

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[Colin Cowherd]

Hey, what's up everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here and I'm Bucky Brooks. If you love breaking down football from every angle, you're in the right place. Every week on Move the six, Bucky Brooks and I dive deep into the game. From the X's and O's to the front office moves shaping the league. We kick things off with Brian Baldinger breaking down what really went down on Sunday. It is as good a timing, rhythm, offense as there is in the league right now. Then Rhett Lewis joins us for our rookie draft and coordinator of the week where we highlight the rising stars and the masterminds calling the shots. DJ talked me into a Ronde Gadsden Jr. He had a monster game. Monster. A monster game. And you hear from the voices who actually build the game, GMs, coaches and players who give you insight you won't get anywhere else. High standards and high care. That's the right combination. So whether you're studying tape or just love great football talk, subscribe to Move the sticks on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bruce Feldman]

Saturday, for the first time in conference history, number one and number two collide in the big League 10 title game. Heisman front runners collide as Julian saan leads number one Ohio State against Fernando Mendoza and number two Indiana. Coverage begins Saturday at 6:30 Eastern on Fox.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'll take Ohio State by a touchdown.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Ish.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think I, you know, Georgia struggles with Bama. I would probably take Georgia to beat Alabama.

Yeah, Texas Tech, Big 12. And nobody cares too much about the ACC. Although I think it's ridiculous that if Duke wins over Virginia, then nobody from the ACC goes. Bruce Feldman later on the show. So.

Football'S got a salary cap, hockey's got one, NBA has one. MLS has, you know, tight screws on their salaries. Baseball does not have a salary cap. I'm pretty okay with it. I think there should be a floor where a billionaire should have to spend a certain amount of money to be viable. But I don't like taking money from the richest owners and the smartest GMs and owners and giving it to the guys that aren't as well. Run Dave Roberts was asked this week about a Major League Baseball salary cap. The Dodgers manager said this.

You know what? I'm all right with that. I think the NBA has done a nice job of kind of revenue sharing with the players and the owners. But if you're going to kind of suppress spending at the top, I think that you got to raise the floor to make those bottom feeders spend money too.

So far the the Dylan cease just made $210 million. He was acquired by a team. It was not the Yankees or the Dodgers or the Cubs or the Mets or the Phillies. It was a team in Canada. Toronto's like, we got a rich owner. We're going to spend money. By the way, richest owner in baseball is Steve Cohen. How the Mets do, They've missed the playoffs three times. By the way, the Washington Nationals owner third or fourth richest.

They were the third worst team in baseball. Major League Baseball is on fire. The TV ratings, the attendance, the vibe. And there's two reasons it's on fire. Number one, they've done a really smart job to speed the game up. Rob Manfred deserves a lot of credit. And it also helps that the big brands are on fire. But you know what else made the playoffs really great? The underdog stories. The well run Cleveland Guardians. The well run Seattle Mariners. The really well run Milwaukee Brewers. So you had a lot of David and Goliath. Now Goliath may win those in the end, but it made for fascinating storytelling. So again, Steve Cohen Ilitch family in Detroit. I think second richest, the Nationals owners. So I don't think those guys should have to give money to the Pittsburgh Pirates billionaire. The Pirates are bad. Not because of Major league Baseball or because of revenue sharing. The Pirates owners cheap because small market Seattle, small market Milwaukee is doing just fine. Milwaukee is really well run. Does Milwaukee have that much more money than Pittsburgh? Aren't they kind of the same size as a market? So I think baseball is on fire because of Rob Manford's changes, because the big markets are crushing and because it's not as lopsided as you want to believe it is. There's a lot of small market stories doing really well. At one point, I don't know what it ended up being in the regular season. Didn't the brewers sweep the Dodgers 60 in the regular season?

Now, now by the time the postseason came around and the Dodgers solved their bullpen, it was a different story. But I mean, to me, the sport's in an incredible spot, an absolutely incredible spot. We do have ourselves a dynasty going on because The Dodgers have done one thing that is available to other owners, but they haven't done it. They have deferred payments. And so by getting Yoshi and Otani, these are unbelievable, transcendent players. I mean, Yoshi was unbelievable. And the Dodgers outbid everybody. And no question, but I've said this before about the Dodgers is they have so many guys. Max Muncie, the A's got rid of him. I mean, you look at Tommy Edmond, he was a.260 hitter, a good defensive player for the Cardinals, they moved off him. The Dodgers are not just about Ohtani. Ohtani mostly could not hit in the postseason. Mookie Betts struggled hitting. A lot of their stars struggled. It was a lot of other guys in the bullpen starting, finally getting healthy. So I think, I think baseball is in an incredible place if you're going to put anything in force. Teams at the bottom to have to spend, their billionaire owner to have to spend. Because I do think the bottom of baseball right now. I mean, the A's feel like a triple A team and I think that's bad for the Sport. But the NFL's got nine, 10 unwatchable teams. NBA always does. So the bottom of these leagues has never been great.

All right, Greg Cosell is showing up. I did. I want to throw this out there. I mean, maybe you noticed, but I predicted when the NIL happened in college football, I said the SEC will still be very good, but it won't be as dominant. There's a lot more money at Notre Dame. Phil Knight In Oregon, USC, California's economy, Michigan, Michigan and Notre Dame have top 10 endowments in the country. The other eight are mostly Ivy League schools. And did you notice now that you can pay players, did you notice who had the best recruiting class? USC out of Los Angeles. Number two, Oregon, Phil Knight, Notre Dame, depending on the service, number three, first time in 18 years wasn't an SEC team. Now Georgia's got money.

But you know, we were joking around this morning in SEC and this is true. In the SEC Alabama territory, your number two or three booster can be a car dealer. In the Big Ten, it's a car maker. And that's there is a difference. And that doesn't mean Georgia can't be really good. But when the NIL got created and college football went from purely college football to about 30, 35% NFL free agency.

Scheduling was going to be more even. Pay all your players, they can transfer at any time. And so, you know, when I watched, did you notice who signed a five star quarterback? In the South.

Vandy Why would that be? Why? Well, probably had to pay him, right? The New York Times in 2017 did a study on economic outcomes. Economic outcomes. How much do people that go to all the SEC schools make? Vandy over $200,000. The median family income? Bama closer to 90. That's still pretty good, right? But in the end, nil didn't squish the little guy. Indiana is now a power. Vanderbilt is outbidding everywhere. Vandy is the heady school in the South. Tulane, by the way, another heady school. They're pretty good. Everybody thought the NIL would squish the little guy. It's hurt the big guy.

Seems to me Bandy's rolling. That wasn't happening 10 years ago.

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[Sophie Cunningham]

Is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea or OSA in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing if anyone has ever said you snored loudly or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at don'tsleep on OSA.com this information is provided by Lily, A medicine.

[Apollo Sales Representative]

Company Tired of juggling sales tools or spending hours on prospecting just to book a few meetings? Meet Apollo, the go to market platform for finding leads, connecting with buyers and closing deals all in one place. Apollo gives you access to over 210 million contacts and AI that handles all your busy work finding leads, drafting emails and even prioritizing your day. So stop paying for five different sales tools when one does it all. Visit Apollo I.O. and sign up free today.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is Jim.

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Hello.

[Colin Cowherd]

Jim started advertising with iHeartRadio way back in April and now I have customers out the door. And this this is Sarah. Hi. She started putting a portion of her marketing dollars in podcasting back in June.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Business is booming. That's why I'm working on a Saturday.

[Apollo Sales Representative]

Want to be like Jim and Sarah?

[Colin Cowherd]

It's easy. All you have to do is own or manage a business and reach out to iHeart. Get started today at 844-844-IHeart or iheartadvertising.com.

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