THE HERD - Hour 1 - Josh Allen is under the most pressure, top head coach openings

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Hour 1 Podcast Summary

Episode Theme:
A deep dive into NFL playoff pressures—especially on the Buffalo Bills and Josh Allen—head coaching openings, and the shifting landscapes in both the NFL and college football. Main focuses include why Josh Allen faces the highest expectations, the state of head coach vacancies (with special attention to Kevin Stefanski), and the changing pecking order of college conferences.

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Main Topics and Segments

1. Josh Allen and the Unmatched Pressure on the Bills

(00:00–04:44)

• Colin frames the show around Josh Allen being under the most pressure in the NFL playoffs.
• Key insight: Of the 14 playoff quarterbacks this year, 12 were first-rounders. Allen is seen as the best left—and with Mahomes and Burrow absent, excuses are gone for Buffalo.
• Critical stat: Buffalo is 0-8 in its last eight road playoff games.
• Colin's take: “One team cannot lose… until maybe the Super Bowl. That’s Buffalo.” (00:56)
• On Sean McDermott: Despite a winning percentage higher than Bill Belichick and Andy Reid, the expectation is Super Bowl or bust because of Allen’s talent.
• Memorable quote: “The downside to having a generational quarterback talent… is the new standard is January.” (03:10)
• On Allen’s playoff production: “Most yards in playoff history on average is Josh Allen—never been to a Super Bowl.” (03:53)

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2. NFL Coaching Market and Openings Analysis

(04:44–11:19)

Kevin Stefanski's Firing and Market Value

• Colin criticizes the Browns for firing Stefanski, calling it likely a mistake and noting interest from multiple teams (Falcons, Giants, Titans).
• “You can always tell if you made a mistake… based on how the job market reacts.” – Colin Cowherd (04:49)
• Colin's “double your win total” prediction for next year: Giants, if they hire Stefanski.

Giants Head Coaching Outlook

• Giants have key roster pieces (QB Jackson Dart, WR Boo Neighbors, LT Andrew Thomas) and draft position (#5).
• Colin: “This is an absolute layup… The Giants with Kevin Stefanski would have a last play schedule… and all the pieces.” (06:59)

Other Coaching Moves

• Cliff Kingsbury out in Washington—clashing with GM Adam Peters.

• Dan Quinn’s job security now shaky due to both coordinators gone, which typically signals a ‘win or get fired’ season.

• On defensive head coaches: Reliance on offensive coordinators means more staff churn and instability.

• Jason McIntyre on Jets situation: “Jets are at the bottom right now. 32. At 32, I’ll accept it.” (11:05)

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3. College Football: Shift in Conference Power and the SEC's Downturn

(13:04–16:20)

• Discussion of the SEC’s bowl record this year (4–9); only two wins vs. non-SEC teams.
• Colin calls out an end to the “SEC is #1” era, highlighting how richer Big Ten and independent schools now outbid the South for coaching, facilities, and NIL recruits.
• “The new slogan in college football is: it just costs more.” – Colin Cowherd (15:47)
• Notably, Vanderbilt (with its wealthy alumni) is called the “SEC team on the rise.”

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4. NFL Defensive Struggles and Team Building Tips

(16:20–19:26)

• Cowboys defense collapses (after trading Micah Parsons); both DC and offensive struggles discussed.
• Cincinnati as an example: Great offense isn’t enough; you need defense to make the playoffs.
• Both hosts agree the Bears’ primary flaw is giving up big plays; suggest upcoming picks should focus on defense.

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5. Washington Commanders Coaching Drama & The Kingsbury Debate

(19:26–22:37)

• Commanders part ways with both coordinators after hiring Dan Quinn—a risky move for the staff and QB Jaden Daniels.
• Debate on Cliff Kingsbury as head coach:
  • Colin skeptical: “He will not hold fairly disruptive players accountable… the knock was he didn’t quite hold people accountable. It’s not his personality.” (20:02, 21:55)
  • Colin's analogy: Some people “aren’t built for the boardroom; they’re not built to make the tough, hard decisions.”
  • Some debate on whether Kingsbury might get another shot, but consensus is he’s best suited as an OC.

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6. Chicago Bears, Caleb Williams, and Playoff Matchups Preview

(22:56–24:56)

• Ben Johnson (Bears OC) confident in rookie Caleb Williams’ playoff debut.
• Windy weather expected; they predict a run-heavy approach favoring Bears.
• Colin: “Caleb, you have got to beat Green Bay at home… facing a Packers team without Micah Parsons. No excuses.” (27:25)
• Herbert's struggles should be contextualized by his poor offensive line; Bears and Caleb Williams have every advantage.

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7. College Football’s New Economics: NIL, Quarterback Retention, and Experience

(30:37–35:37)

• Emphasis on QBs like Dante Moore staying in college due to high NIL payouts ($4M+), boosting the level of play and player preparation.
• Joel Klatt: “It’s going to make them better pros… the least experienced college QB to ever win a Super Bowl in the last 25 years is actually Tom Brady.” (33:35)
• College experience matters; trend of successful NFL quarterbacks having 30+ college starts and 1,000+ attempts.

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8. The Real Reason for the SEC’s Regression: Depth, Money, and Defense

(36:07–38:26)

• Recent playoff exits for Georgia, Alabama, and Ohio State are chalked up to “depth related and line of scrimmage related” issues.
• Joel Klatt: “What would have been a 40–19 Georgia win seven years ago turned into an Ole Miss win… they don’t have the depth that they used to.” (36:53)
• Only Miami, Oregon, Indiana among semifinalists have elite defenses; Ole Miss does not.

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9. Ole Miss Coaching Flux and the Problem with Lane Kiffin’s Departure

(38:26–41:27)

• Lane Kiffin’s move causes coaching distractions at Ole Miss, which Joel Klatt calls out as unfair to players.
• Klatt: “The quickest way to be defeated is to be distracted. You cannot serve two masters, period.” (40:34)

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10. Matchup Previews and Underdog Scenarios

(41:27–43:12)

• Ole Miss’ offense (led by Trinidad Chambliss) praised for its comeback ability, but the lack of defense makes Miami the likely favorite.
• Colin: “I always like underdogs… if the underdog is built to play from behind, and Ole Miss is.” (42:27)

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Selected Notable Quotes

| Quote | Speaker | Timestamp | |-------|---------|-----------| | “One team cannot lose… until maybe the Super Bowl. That’s Buffalo.” | Colin Cowherd | 00:56 | | “The downside to having a generational quarterback talent… is the new standard is January.” | Colin Cowherd | 03:10 | | “You can always tell if you made a mistake… based on how the job market reacts.” | Colin Cowherd | 04:49 | | “Jets are at the bottom right now. 32. At 32, I’ll accept it.” | Jason McIntyre | 11:05 | | "The new slogan in college football is: it just costs more." | Colin Cowherd | 15:47 | | “He will not hold fairly disruptive players accountable… that’s not his personality.” | Colin Cowherd | 20:02/21:55 | | “The quickest way to be defeated is to be distracted. You cannot serve two masters, period.” | Joel Klatt | 40:34 | | “It’s going to make them better pros… Tom Brady was actually the least experienced college QB to ever win a Super Bowl in the last 25 years.” | Joel Klatt | 33:35 |

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00–04:44: Josh Allen & the Bills’ playoff mandate; Sean McDermott’s Super Bowl expectations.
• 04:44–11:19: NFL head coach vacancy discussion, Stefanski’s value, Giants’ optimism, coaching rumors.
• 13:04–16:20: SEC’s decline, new financial power in college football, the NIL era.
• 16:20–19:26: Cowboys’ defensive woes, team-building essentials, Bears’ needs.
• 19:26–22:37: Commanders coaching drama; detailed Cliff Kingsbury debate.
• 22:56–24:56: Caleb Williams’ playoff pressure; breakdown of Bears-Packers matchup.
• 30:37–35:37: NIL and college QB retention, why experience matters for NFL success.
• 36:07–38:26: Loss of SEC dominance, why depth and defense matter most.
• 38:26–41:27: Kiffin’s coaching distraction at Ole Miss and why it matters.
• 41:27–43:12: Miami–Ole Miss preview; value in underdog team construction.

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Overall Tone

Colin maintains his usual direct, data-driven, and opinionated tone, holding teams and coaches to high standards while weaving in stats and big-picture insights. Joel Klatt adds analytical gravitas, especially on college football trends and the implications of NIL. Jason McIntyre keeps the debate lively and sharp, questioning assumptions and pushing for deeper analysis.

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For listeners:

This episode is essential listening for those interested in the intersection of quarterback performance, coach accountability, NFL playoff stakes, and the rapidly transforming landscape of college football. It provides sharp context for NFL and NCAA playoff narratives, the ongoing coaching carousel, and new forces shaping the game on and off the field.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Jason McIntyre]

Guaranteed Human. Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio at noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Now, let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Oh, here we go. We are loaded. Today, an embarrassment of riches. Nick Wright, Greg Olson, Joel Klatt. It is the Herd. We're live in Los Angeles. Wherever you may be, however you may be listening or watching, whatever the platform, thanks for making us part of your day. Stories breaking everywhere. We will have all of them. You know, a lot of times you'll hear people say, well, you know, these, these teams, they, I mean, they're, they don't know how to draft quarterbacks. 12 of the 14 playoff quarterbacks are first round quarterbacks and the best one left is Josh Allen. That's why as I peruse the playoff matchups this weekend, one team cannot lose until maybe they get to a Super Bowl. That's Buffalo. Here's the bad news. Last eight road playoff games, Buffalo is 0 and 8. Not all of those on Sean McDermott. All the playoff games this weekend, only one team is not allowed to lose. Buffalo. Or the domino effect starts. Kevin Stefanski don't take a job yet. And the excuse for Buffalo has been, well, there's Patrick Mahomes and Joe Burrow. Neither made the playoffs. It's bad enough that you lost your division to Drake May and Mike Vrabel. And it was Vrabel's first year taking over a team that is still, in my opinion, in a rebuild. You can't then lose the AFC to potentially Liam Cohen taking over the wobbly Jacksonville Jaguars. And Sean McDermott can coach. He has a higher winning percentage, believe it or not, than Belichick and andy Reid. Sean McDermott can coach, but the downside to having a generational quarterback talent like an Elway or a Peyton Manning or a Josh Allen is the new standard is January. That's the new standard. So there's a saying, great power comes with great responsibility. In the NFL, great quarterbacks create great responsibility. It is Sean McDermott's responsibility to be completely buttoned up and win a road playoff game over a team. Frankly, Jacksonville, that is better than you this year. I was looking this morning at the most consecutive seasons of 10 plus wins. NFL all time. The Bills are now fifth and they're the only team that has not reached a Super bowl in that seven year stretch. Not only is every other team, when they have these stretches been to a Super bowl, six of the seven have won a Super Bowl. Buffalo hasn't reached it. And Josh Allen leads the NFL in yards in playoff history. Think about that. Most yards in playoff history is averaging, not total averaging is Josh Allen never been to a Super Bowl. So losing to Mahomes and Burrow, okay, that's, that's a reason you can't lose to Bo Nix. You can't lose to Drake May, you can't lose to Liam Cohen and Trevor Lawrence. You can't. Doesn't matter. You can't. 12 of 14 playoff teams have first round quarterbacks. You have the best one here, Sean McDermott on the weekend ahead.

[Colin Cowherd]

You don't take him for granted. Let's just start there. But at the same time you, the experience is we've, I've been here, we've been here. And so that comes with like, I guess it brings some level of.

[Jason McIntyre]

Call.

[Colin Cowherd]

It seasoning and you would hope poise and composure as we prepare this week and go through our process. Like anything else, you learn from experience.

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay, so I had mentioned there's a lot of coaching openings. J Mac will have more of those in 12, 15 minutes. I said this yesterday and I have a little company and I don't like to fire people. I really don't. I think there's a spot almost always somewhere in a company for people. But you can always tell. I was told this years and years and years ago by a, by a boss I had like 30 years ago. He said you can always tell if you made a mistake when you let somebody go based on how the job market reacts. So Cleveland fires Kevin Stefanski. In my opinion mistake. According to Adam Schefter, the Falcons, Giants and Titans top of their list. Yeah, Cleveland, you screwed up again. Can't get the right quarterback, fire the wrong coach. So five years in a row I have made a pick. I call it a double your win total team and if not double the most improved team. Vikings in 2022. I got that right. Rams the year after a Washington and Denver A couple years ago this year I had New England double your win total. Most improved team would be Seattle. So I'm on a little bit of a heater. Not only should Stefanski be the leading candidate if the Bills lose the team, I would pick next year double your win total would be the New York Giants. If Kevin Stefanski is hired, that's how highly I think of him. So I've gotten it right four or five years in teams in a row. The Giants with Kevin Stefanski would have a last play schedule. Jackson dart. Scatter. Boo Neighbors returns Andrew Thomas. Good left tackle again, last play schedule. Number five pick in the draft. They can manipulate and get more picks. This is an absolute layup. Nothing against Mike Kafka, the interim guy. But you know, I don't like, I, I don't like when teams fire a coach. The interim guy comes in and you're like, wow, that looked pretty good. It's the substitute teacher. Everybody loves the substitute teacher right there. They're more chill than the previous teacher. More chill than the previous coach. Not as harsh. Yeah. Mike Kafka is not the answer. Could be someday. I don't think this is the space. And people can say, well, Colin, you thought Pete Carroll was going to work in Las Vegas? Yeah, I thought Pete Carroll was a solid choice. It should be noted, I picked the Raiders to finish fourth with Pete Carroll. I said they'll still be a last place team but they need like guidance and maturity and stop with the interim stuff. Just go hire a guy that's one big Pete Carroll. It didn't work. Man overboard. But I still picked him for fourth. The New York Giants have several key components like fr. You know, Jackson darts in the blue tent way more than I like. But when you have a number one receiver, a number one left tackle, a number one back, a number one quarterback, an excellent pass rusher, the number five pick, that's. That's pretty solid. That's pretty solid. I mean, you go look at the teams at the top of the draft outside of the team that gets Mendoza Giants pretty interesting. Here's Joe Shane on their coaching vacancy right now in New York.

[Colin Cowherd]

Each of those franchises brought in new head coaches and were able to turn.

[Jason McIntyre]

It around rather quickly. And you know, Drake Mays in the.

[Colin Cowherd]

Mvp, you know, race right now and who you know, Caleb Williams, we obviously played against him and has had a.

[Jason McIntyre]

Really good year and playing at a high level. So yeah, that's, that's certainly an opportunity.

[Colin Cowherd]

That you look at those franchises and.

[Jason McIntyre]

How they put it together in the.

[Colin Cowherd]

Quick turnaround and you know, an ideal world. Yeah, that would be it. From the people I've talked to, you know, the consensus, there are a lot of potential head coaching candidates that are.

[Jason McIntyre]

Excited about the opportunity here because of Jackson Dart. Yeah, 50 to 40, 50% of first round quarterbacks that are drafted don't become great franchise quarterbacks. I Don't know what Jackson Dart's going to become, but no reasonable person would deny it's encouraging. If he can stay out of the blue tent. The Giants were swimming in chaos. He was kind of encouraging. Scatter. Boo neighbors. Andrew Thomas, Jackson Dart, Abdul Carter. It's kind of encouraging. Kevin Stefanski takes that job. That is a double your win total team. Not saying it's a great team. They're not going to turn into New England this year, but they'd be a really good team. J. Mac we got all sorts of stuff happening. Some of it not surprising. One move, very surprising. And this is such a great time of the year starting Thursday.

[Colin Cowherd]

Do you want to just tell them.

[Jason McIntyre]

What happened in the last so Cliff Kingsbury. Yeah. Is now mutually decided. He does not get along with the gm Adam Peters, I've been told. Oh, I didn't. Yeah. He doesn't necessarily see eye to eye with a gm. And now Dan Quinn. This is the downside to hiring a defensive coach. And I like Dan Quinn. I thought it was a solid hire. Now you lose your offensive coordinator and here's Jaden Daniels all banged up going, who's my coach, by the way?

[Colin Cowherd]

Also fired their defensive coordinator. So both coordinators gone. That usually means, hey, head coach, deliver this season or you're gone.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's right.

[Colin Cowherd]

Not good for Jaden Daniels.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's. That's what we've always said. Hire an offensive coach. Now, there are exceptions. D' Amo. Ryan's came highly touted. Yeah. Jesse Minter with the Chargers. Everybody Loves Mike McDaniel was thought of as the Sean McVeigh of defense. There are great defensive coaches, but even if you nail that guy, he loses his offensive coordinator every couple of years. So you. I mean, Dan Campbell did a great job this year. Offensive coordinator didn't work as as well. He had to take over offensive play calling and it disrupted the flow of the team.

[Colin Cowherd]

There'll probably be a line out the door for this job.

[Jason McIntyre]

Right.

[Colin Cowherd]

You want to get in coaching Jaden Daniels because he's such a superstar. I wonder where does Cliff Kingsbury land? You think he wants to maybe spend the fall in New York?

[Jason McIntyre]

I'll tell you I have this as well sourced as I can. I love Cliff. He's not an NFL head coach. No, no.

[Colin Cowherd]

As the OC if we get Dante Moore in New York, a quarterback, could that excite Cliff Kingsbury? Living in New York, coaching young Don.

[Jason McIntyre]

For the jets does not excite anybody. I mean, it's right now. It's the worst situation in the league.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's up there.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. I mean, say what you want about Tennessee. They have Cam Ward.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, the Raiders are in trouble right now.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, but they get Mendoza.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[Joel Klatt]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean, everybody can't. Tennessee has Cam Ward. Giants have Jackson Dart. Think what you want. Raiders are getting Mendoza. I mean, you could say what you want about the Falcons, but Kirk played well at the end. They still have Pennocks. They're going to hire an offensive guy, perhaps Stefanski. Jets are at the bottom right now. 32. At 32, I'll accept it. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Hey, it's Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington from the Odd Couple on Fox Sports Radio. And in addition to hearing us live weeknights from 7 to 10pm Eastern on Fox Sports Radio, we are excited to announce brand new YouTube channel for the show. That's right, you can now watch the Odd couple live on YouTube every day. All you got to do search Odd Couple FSR on YouTube again.

[Joel Klatt]

YouTube.

[Jason McIntyre]

Just search Odd Couple FSR. Check us out on YouTube and subscribe.

[Ed Zitron]

I'm Ed Zetron of the Better Offline Podcast and I want you to join me at this year's Consumer Electronics show in Las Vegas, Nevada. Starting January 6th through January 10th, 2026, we're doing 10 radio style podcast episodes about the world's biggest tech conference. And I'll be joined by David Roth, Chloe Radcliffe, Adam Conover, Corey Doctorow and a host of other guests to tell you all about what the tech industry is desperate to sell you in 2026.

[Jason McIntyre]

Today I did five hours of back to back panels on artificial intelligence. It included a number of great moments, including an entire room full of people laughing about people losing their jobs due to artificial intelligence.

[Ed Zitron]

It's going to be the single best coverage of CES ever recorded, even if it kills us. Listen to Better offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you happen to get your podcasts.

[Jason McIntyre]

I don't think people. Maybe they do, but there's been a sea change in college football and we're down to the final Four teams. It's Tuesday. Thursday night they start playing again and the SEC is no longer. It's not, it's not disputable. Their bowl record this year is 4 and 9. The SEC is no longer the number one conference. In fact, of those four wins, only two are non SEC teams. They beat themselves and then they beat Tulane who fired their or lost Their coach in Michigan, which has been in a free fall for the last eight weeks until they hired Kyle Whittingham. Those are your two wings, Tulane and Michigan. So if Ole Miss loses to Miami on Thursday, third straight year no SEC team in the championship game, they're not even getting there. This year National Letter of Recruiting day, which was always an SEC parade for the top five teams, non SEC teams, and they're richer schools. Notre Dame, Oregon, USC and Ohio State. So the Big Ten plus Notre Dame have a lot more money. A great example of this is Bama's number one booster is Bear Bryant's son. Oregon has Phil Knight, founder of Nike. Indiana's got Mark Cuban, who's among three huge boosters for the Hoosiers. So the SEC always had a slogan. It just means more passion ruled the sport. Big problem though now going forward. The new slogan in college football is it just costs more. And that is the reality. I'm reading a story this morning. Well, is money taking over college football? Yeah, it was always leading college football. There was the facilities, Mad rush, paying kids in the south through the churches. And now it all comes through the front door, as Ed Orgeron said, not the back door. All four quarterbacks left in the playoff transfers. And here's something that's fascinating. The number one SEC team on the rise is Vanderbilt, the number one academic school which has the richest group on average of graduates. Academics do matter. So it's very interesting when people talk about oh which is a better conference, there's no arguing right now they are 4 and 9 in bowl games. The only two wins against non SEC teams were Tulane that lost a coach and Michigan did two a different way.

[Joel Klatt]

That's.

[Jason McIntyre]

Just means more. Nah, it just costs more. That's the reality. College football now is 40 to 50% pro football by the way. Attendance up, ratings up. It was always sort of a provincial, tribal, wonky sport with no leadership. Now it kind of looks like the NFL playoffs and the numbers prove people are into it. Sec, super expensive conference this point forward. That's how you win it. Keep your eye on Vandy J. Mack with the news. No, no, no, turn on the news.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is the third line news. All right, Colin, let's go back to the NFL. Dallas Cowboys fired their DC Matt Eberflu. It's not a huge surprise. I mean they're defense was a dumpster fire season. You know you trade Micah Parsons and then you allow 29 points per game. Worse in the league they were 31st in points allowed and allowed 376 yards per game.

[Joel Klatt]

Colin.

[Colin Cowherd]

It was abysmal all around. I don't really know where they go from here. They got a lot of work to do on the back end of the defense. Well, Drayvon Diggs, by the way, who they refuse to play goes to Green Bay, has a Pretty good week 18 in a meaningless game.

[Jason McIntyre]

Cincinnati is a great example. You could have Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase and T. Higgins. You can't score your way to the playoffs. You're seeing in college football. Oregon, Miami and Indiana play real defense. Ole Miss doesn't. You have to play. I mean, the downfall of the SEC is that Bama and Georgia don't have dominating defenses anymore. It's not that they don't score points. So Cincinnati proves that you can have a great offense. You have to make some stops. In fact, that's what I think both of us agree will be the downfall of Chicago is that Bears give up big plays.

[Colin Cowherd]

They're better defensively at home. But yeah, I largely agree with you.

[Jason McIntyre]

So I think take Cincinnati as an example. Your first two picks should probably be defensive players and, and you should probably let Pickens go and go buy another. I mean you got Quinn and Williams, Kenny Clark draft an edge, get a safety, Caleb Downs or a corner and then you probably go have to spend some money somewhere in that secondary as well. It's a lean secondary.

[Colin Cowherd]

Caleb Downs would be a home run. I don't think he's going to be there when they're drafting. I mean hell, the Chiefs could be interested in Caleb Downs. So really rough one for the Cowboys defense this year. All right, sticking in the NFC east, the big news, the commanders dump both of their coordinators. Joe, with the DC gone and we're calling it a parting of ways with Kingsbury and Dan Quinn now, I, I, my guess is something's going to come out on this. Colin, this feels awkward, right? Like why would you move off Kingsbury? You were in the NFC championship a year ago with a healthy Jaden Daniels. Kingsbury was amazing and now you're just moving on from him. What, you get a whiff that there's anything going on here?

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, they hired a defensive coach who had been fired in Atlanta, Dan Quinn. We thought it, we both thought it was a good B plus hire because we both love the idea of stabilizing the organization. But if you're asking me what I would have ideally done is hire an offensive coach. By the way, the Bears Caleb Williams inherited a defensive coach. They have now pimited to an offensive coach. Bo Nicks offensive coach. Drake May has a defensive coach, but he has a probably the best coordinator in the sport. Josh McDaniels.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right.

[Jason McIntyre]

I think Dan Quinn's on the clock.

[Colin Cowherd]

So interesting.

[Jason McIntyre]

What great coordinator is going to take that job in Washington? Why would I take the commander's job? I know that if Quinn doesn't win, I'm not getting the job as a coordinator. I. I think you're trapped. I think this puts the pressure on Dan Quinn and what guy with options is choosing this job and that now.

[Colin Cowherd]

That would be year three with Jaden. And if this year, next year's bad, then you get a new coach. Year four, then the rookie deal's wasted. Colin, what if there's a scenario that Kingsbury is going to be a head coach? There are six openings. I know you don't think it worked well in Arizona. He did get them to the playoffs. Kyler Murray's only trip. What if the Raiders kick the tires on Kingsbury because remember he was in discussions with them.

[Jason McIntyre]

The answer isn't Pete Carroll's last couple of jobs. Bad Kingsberry. Kingsbury got fired by his alma mater. He's not a head coach. That's not. I. I know there are a couple.

[Colin Cowherd]

Good quarterbacks out there. Dart Cam Ward and Mendoza are on the board.

[Jason McIntyre]

The knock on Kingsbury has always been he's not. He will not hold fairly disruptive players accountable. He's an offensive guy. He's a nice guy. But things get loose very quick. They did it as alma material. His alma mater again.

[Colin Cowherd]

That was like seven years ago. Eight, ten years ago. Now we're. Maybe he needed to be around Quinn to see what it's like around a mature head coach.

[Jason McIntyre]

You either have that personality or you don't. You don't learn how to be tough. Now there are tough coaches, Coughlin who lighten up. But Wade Phillips was always a great guy. The knock on him was always. He's not tough enough. You can go backward. Tough people can lighten up to the tough. Dad can lighten up and chill out. Light, soft, nice, don't get mean. Players don't buy into it. Kingsbury's not going to become McVeigh. He's not going to become like Shanahan. In that building is not only respected, he's a little feared. He'll move off you. McVeigh is feared. He moved Von Miller, he, I mean cooper cup like McVeigh in that building. Players love him, but he moves off guys a year early.

[Colin Cowherd]

Kingsbury doesn't need to become anyone. He could just become a slightly different version of himself and maybe not crack the whip hardcore. I mean, that almost makes it sound like Mike McDaniel in Miami. He's soft. He's kind of a quiet guy. Can't change.

[Jason McIntyre]

Mike McDaniel made two a Pro Bowler and made the playoffs with a GM that was apparently completely over his skis.

[Colin Cowherd]

I mean, if I'm Kingsbury sitting in a meeting with Tom Brady or whoever, hey, man, Kyler Murray's only trip to the playoffs with me, Jaden Daniels. I took him to the NFC championship in his first year. Like, I think he's got a decent resume. I'm not totally out on Kingsbury being a head coach in this cycle. I mean, obviously Stefanski would be ahead of him. But you're saying no shot.

[Jason McIntyre]

No. He may get hired. I'm not saying no shot. I'm telling you, when your alma mater gets rid of you. Alma maters don't want to get rid of people that went to school one of their own. And then you go to Arizona. And I'm not blaming him entirely in Arizona, but the knock was he didn't quite hold people accountable. It's not his personality. We say this all the time. A lot of people are vice presidents. A lot of people are VPs. They're not built for the boardroom. They're not built to make hard, tough decisions. I don't think Kingsbury is. I think Cliff's great guy. I think he's sharp. I think he's a good oc. But why would Adam Peters, the GM who's highly respected, why would he butt heads with Cliff Kingsbury? Why?

[Colin Cowherd]

Something's going to come out in D.C. or Kingsbury has over the next week or two.

[Jason McIntyre]

Start reading all your. I mean, I'm going to make two calls after the show today. Why didn't Peters and Cliff get along? I mean, Peters is considered super sharp.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, they turned it around quickly this year. A disaster. But anyways, final story. Colin Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams. Their big playoff debut is this weekend. Caleb obviously had a great season with the Bears. Franchise record 3,942 passing yards. Ben Johnson is confident in his quarterback.

[Jason McIntyre]

He's played in a lot of big games over the course of his life.

[Joel Klatt]

I think he's.

[Jason McIntyre]

He's primed and he's ready to go. He was built for these moments. He plays his best when. When. When we need him to.

[Joel Klatt]

And so there's really not a whole.

[Jason McIntyre]

Lot that needs to be said. He just needs to be him. Okay, so wise guys Slash Sharps. Always look at the weather. Very interesting, the weather for this game. Yeah, up to 30 mile an hour, wind gusts. What does that tell you? Take the better run game. So where is Chicago? Vulnerable, giving up big plays. Good luck throwing it down the field to Christian Watson. So run games and throws to tight ends. Colston Loveland.

[Colin Cowherd]

Loveland's really come on strong.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, Cole, Comet, Loveland, Caleb Strongarm run game. Better offensive line is Chicago. So the weather right now is favoring Chicago. Keep the ball on the ground, throw to your tight ends underneath stuff. Bears at home.

[Colin Cowherd]

So Caleb, in the first meeting with the Packers, 186 yards passing, not a great game. Had a bad pick, did come on strong late second game, wasn't doing much and then had the big throw in overtime to put him over 200 yards. But two meetings against the Packers, I this is a tough one for men. This is the one game I'm afraid to pick. I just don't have a strong feeling either way. Gut tells me maybe the packers win, but I'll be rooting for your Bears sometimes. I'll root for your teams even though you take dumps on the jets regularly. I'll root for your Bears. I'll root for them.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right. J. Mac with a noose. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by the Herd lie news. So as we get ready to go into college football starts Thursday, then Friday, then Saturday through Monday night with the Steelers. Texans is just going to be a parade of greatness. So I want to establish something as we go into the playoffs. So this is hard for the radio audience to devour because it's a lot of numbers, but PFF has ranked every playoff team in order. Pass blocking O line on the left. Run blocking O line in the right. Here's the good news. Denver and Buffalo have the two best offensive lines in the playoffs. Look at the very bottom. The Chargers have the worst pass blocking of all these playoff teams. 31st, only one team in the whole league is worst and they have the worst blocking offensive line in the entire league. Playoff teams, non playoff teams. So the Chargers would be the worst offensive line in the pro football f the PFF era to just win a playoff game. To just win. And, and, and Justin Herbert. I know what you're saying. If they lose to New England, Colin, how good can he be? I mean, how good can he be now on a playoff game? If Justin Herbert out of college landed in Philly with Howie Roseman, they'd be building a bust in Canton, Ohio. If you look at Justin Herbert's career, all of it, including the playoffs, when he is sacked once or fewer, he's 21 and 6. But even when he sacked two or more times, he's still excellent. Now he's under 500 but a 91 passer rating. So there is a difference. Let's, let's get it all out here. There is a difference between not doing something, winning a playoff game and being the reason you haven't done something. This is an offensive line that should immediately disqualify you as a team from making the playoffs. And yet Herbert has engineered an 11 and 6 record. We with the worst run blocking line in the league and the second worst pass blocking. And of the playoff teams, it's not close. The second thing we need to establish, the second thing we need to establish on those rankings of offensive lines. The Chicago Bears have the number six passing O line and the number three running O line. So the Bears and Caleb Williams have an excellent top 4o line in the league, not just playoff teams. They have an excellent play designer and caller, Ben Johnson, excellent weapons and the better run game against Green Bay. So two things this weekend, if Justin Herbert loses, I don't want to hear about. Well, Colin, oh, where are the playoff wins? They're an underdog for a reason. They have an offensive line that should not sniff the playoffs. The fact they're 11 and 6 is insane. But if Caleb Williams loses when he's got the coach, the O line, the pass blocking, the run blocking, the weapons, that's on Caleb. He has got to beat Green Bay at home. Facing a Packer team without Micah Parsons. No excuses. The pressure's on Caleb. You got the home. You actually have weather that benefits you. You've got the run game, the O line, the play calling, the play design. Herbert is looking uphill. Here's Harbaugh on facing the Patriots. Excited for the game, excited, you know, for the opportunity.

[Colin Cowherd]

Ultra competitive season.

[Jason McIntyre]

This is, this is, this is that.

[Colin Cowherd]

Time, you know.

[Jason McIntyre]

And yeah, kind of.

[Colin Cowherd]

That.

[Jason McIntyre]

Put up her shut up. Time for the record. Herbert, Justin Herbert led the Chargers in rushing seven times this year. That is not what they want in Los Angeles. That's why I like the Patriots in this matchup. Herd hierarchy, our last regular season. Herd hierarchy of the year. Joel Klatz around the corner. College football playoffs start Thursday. It's the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Ed Zitron]

I'm Ed Zedron of the Better Offline Podcast and I want you to join me at this year's Consumer Electronics show in Las Vegas, Nevada. Starting January 6th through January 10th, 2026, we're doing 10 radio style podcast episodes about at the world's biggest tech conference. And I'll be joined by David Roth, Chloe Radcliffe, Adam Conover, Cory Doctorow and a host of other guests to tell you all about what the tech industry is desperate to sell you in 2026.

[Jason McIntyre]

Today I did five hours of back to back panels on artificial intelligence. It included a number of great moments, including an entire room full of people laughing about people losing their jobs due to artificial intelligence.

[Ed Zitron]

It's going to be the single best coverage of CES ever recorded, even if it kills us. Listen to Better offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you happen to get your podcasts.

[Jason McIntyre]

By the way, this news that is coming out Todd McShay advised Dante Moore, the Oregon quarterback, regardless of how he is playing, that Mendoza is going to be the number one pick out of Indiana. He Todd McShay said avoid the jets. Do not go to the NFL. Stay at college. Now Dante Moore at Oregon is going to make $4 million. Probably around that ballpark. That is what the top quarterbacks are going for. Texas Tech just signed a really talented quarterback who I think is good enough to play now in the NFL for about 4 or 5 million bucks. So it's great for college football because you know, football's as good as quarterback play. So it's great for college football. You're going to keep guys in college another year at the most important position. It's also great for these kids who can get another 13 to 15 college starts. That can't hurt. It's also good for the secondary quarterback market in the NFL like Malik Willis is going to eat and Mac Jones and Kyler Murray and Daniel Jones. It's great for those guys. It's not good for poorly run organizations because I and I and I would strongly don't listen to your agent. Agents want to get paid. All you college guys, when you get agents, all agents want, they want to get paid. They don't really care what's best for you. They want money. And the bottom line here is Aaron Glenn and the jets is a is a hazmat.

[Joel Klatt]

Spill.

[Jason McIntyre]

They don't. What do they offer? Strong ownership, proven coach, great O line, lots of weapons. I mean Garrett Wilson, I think remains the number one jets receiver. I don't think he's had a catch since week six. I mean it, it is so to me, Oregon for another 15 games. Dan Lanning's a great recruiter. Stay at Oregon, win a bunch of games with that. Joel Clatt joins us live as we get ready for the game. Starting Thursday, Miami, Ole Miss. You know, I got to tell you, there are, and I've been saying this about college basketball. College basketball had about a 20 year stretch where it was unwatchable because guys were going to Europe. It was one and done and the European players weren't coming over. Then the nil came and suddenly now the American universities go buy 15 Europeans. Europeans can't keep, I mean, like Spaniards. Now they'll leave a Spanish league, they'll come over here and go play for Illinois. And then guys like Zach Edie, who are really good players, say, I'm going to stay at Purdue one more year. So you're so college basketball has been fortified with about 20 to 25 to 30 kids that instead of playing in, you know, it could be Israel, it could be overseas Lithuania, it could be Japan, it could be wherever. They just come back to college and make 3 million bucks a year. So I think this is great for college football. That, that Texas Tech kid who played at Cincinnati and Dante Moore, they could both play in the NFL. Now they're going to come out with 50 more starts. I mean, you're take, you played the position in college. I love this for college football.

[Joel Klatt]

I do too. And by the way, it's going to make them better pros. You know, this is not just about the money. It's also about the, the impact that they're going to have once they're NFL players. You and I have talked about this a lot. You look at the best players in the, in the NFL and in particular the quarterbacks that win in the postseason and ultimately go on and win Super Bowls. You average out their college career and you've got 30 plus starts, a thousand plus attempts, very experienced guys. In fact, do you know that the least experienced quarterback from a college perspective to have won a Super bowl in the last 25 years is actually Tom Brady?

[Jason McIntyre]

Wow.

[Joel Klatt]

I mean that, that should tell you everything that you need to know about what you need coming into the league. And obviously fit like you were talking about with the jets, fit and organization are obviously going to impact that as well. But your experience and maturity level is a big factor in that. And so I would also, if Dante Moore called me today and he said, hey, like what should I do? I wouldn't blink an eye. I would say go back to school because it's no longer just a financial decision. He can make life Changing money at Oregon, much less the National Football League, and getting extra starts prepares you for what you could potentially have, which is a long NFL career, because you want to get to the second contract. That's when it really matters for you in the National Football League. And, and we're starting to see, by the way, in the last couple of years, experience at that position and experience. Teams in general are the ones that are winning in the postseason. Look at Indiana, they've got experience. Look at Ohio State last year, Michigan the year before, experience at the quarterback position, experience across the line of scrimmage. That's what's ultimately winning out right now in college football.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, I mean, Bo Nicks had 61 college starts. So Sean Payton, it's not a coincidence that when he got to Denver, Sean Payton said, here's the entire playbook. And luck. Three years, four years at Stanford, three years like what he came into the league, they're like, okay, here's the entire playbook. We don't have to babysit you. So it not only helps you in college, but by the time you get the NFL, I mean, Bo Nicks had like four or five different coordinators in college. He was like a pro in college. So I love that.

[Joel Klatt]

Mahomes had a ton of starts, Matthew Stafford had a ton of starts. Look at what he's doing. There's a good chance he's going to win the mvp. So this, this has borne out. This is not a one or two year sample size in the National Football League. This has been a 25 year deal where we can look and see who's succeeding in the postseason in particular. And that's why it's easy to, you know, say to a guy like Dante Moore or a lot of these quarterbacks stay in school, stay in school, and now they're getting paid to do so.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well. When I watched Alabama and Georgia, my takeaway was those defenses are don't have a lot of depth. They didn't generate the pass rush without bringing extra people. And my takeaway is college football has officially changed. The SEC has gone 2 and 7 against non SEC teams and that's over Tulane, who lost their coach in Michigan. That's been a mess for, you know, six to eight weeks. I think we have to be honest about this is that of the four teams left, Joel three play real big boy defense and Ole Miss doesn't and no, they don't. And I think a lot of it, it's just money. Ohio State can buy both sides. Miami and Oregon can buy both sides of the ball.

[Joel Klatt]

I, I do think it's money. I do think it's experience as well. You know, I think that that comes into it, which I was alluding to in that last answer. But, but think about who lost in the quarterfinals. Ohio State lost in the quarterfinals. Alabama lost in the quarterfinals. Georgia lost in the quarterfinals. And you could make a strong argument that a lot of that was depth related and line of scrimmage related. Like Georgia started losing players on defense, they got banged up on defense, they lost a guy to targeting and all of a sudden they didn't have what they had five and six and seven years ago, which is a too deep littered with five star players because they could just hoard those guys. They didn't want to go anywhere. So now all of a sudden they don't have the depth that they used to. What would have been a 40 to 19 Georgia win seven years ago turned into an Ole Miss win because they were able to make some plays and, and, and attack that. Georgia defense similarly, like Miami was able to invest in an a line of scrimmage game that ultimately beat Ohio State. The defensive line for Miami was outstanding. The offensive line for Miami was outstanding. Oregon very similarly was able to handle the game at the line of scrimmage. And more specifically on defense, this, this sport has turned into. You've got to have a great defense to win in the postseason and in particular down, down the stretch when you get to the semifinals and the finals. That's why I think it's going to be tough for Ole Miss. Their defense is ranked 29th in scoring defense. The rest of the participants, Miami is sixth, Oregon is fourth and Indiana is second in scoring defense. So everybody can play defense right now and that's ultimately what it comes down to.

[Jason McIntyre]

So Ole Miss has multiple coaches who are splitting time between LSU and Ole Miss. I think Miami's the better team, significantly better defense. Now that you look. See I. Here was my thing on Lane Kiffin. I don't want to be a hypocrite. I have been mobile in my career. I'm not going to tell people not to upgrade. So I don't want to be a hypocrite. That said, I was curious. I said I'm not so sure Ole Miss couldn't score their way to the national championship game. I think they'd be beaten by a better defense. But they could, they could knock some teams off. Now in the rearview mirror, you look at the mess at Ole Miss, what do you make of Kiffin leaving?

[Joel Klatt]

It's, it's a Mess. Like you just said. That's the best way to describe it. I said at the time, and I said it on your show, I said it on others. I said it on Big Noon Kickoff right before Michigan, Ohio State. I said that. That if Lane was. Was ultimately doing all this and making all these decisions in order to compete for a national championship, then all he had to do was look at what's right in front of him, because he's going to have that chance this year with this Ole Miss team. And that's exactly what has panned out. They're just doing it with Pete Golding now. He decided to move, and that's. That's fine. Although, like I also said during that time, there are consequences to those decisions. Listen, what I don't think Lane understands is that he's not the victim in this scenario. You know, I think that there's a lot of things going on right now, and what I look at is the player. If I'm Trinidad Chambliss, don't I expect desire my offensive coordinator to be 100% invested in what's going on with the national semifinal? Yes, that's. That's what I hope for if I'm in that position as a quarterback. And the reality is, is that's not the case. Now, Lane would tell you that Charlie Weiss has had all the time necessary and hasn't missed a meeting. And don't worry, he's been back and forth to help recruit at LSU and being back there, and it's been a little bit toxic at Ole Miss, all these things. That's what Lane would tell you. But the bottom line is, is the quickest way to be defeated is be distracted. And you cannot serve two Masters, period.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, period.

[Joel Klatt]

And. And so the situation sucks for the players. And. And I'm sure Lane is. Is catching heat from Ole Miss and Ole Miss is catching heat from Lane, and they're bantering back and forth now and all of these different things, and all I keep thinking about are the players. The players just want their coaches to be there to help build support, prepare them for the task at hand. And. And I don't know if that's taking place right now 100%, and that's unfortunate. And that's one of the reasons why I would pick Miami in this game. The matchup. Actually, if you look at it, ole Ms. Resembles SMU enough that they can get their quarterback, Trinidad Chambliss, on the edge, Tower Tire, Out, Bain and Mezz. Or like, the matchup is not bad for Ole Miss. It really isn't.

[Jason McIntyre]

No. But you better have an offensive coaching.

[Joel Klatt]

Staff and they better be 100% vested in this game. And that's what you, you can call into question.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, I always like underdogs. If the underdog is built to play from behind and we just watched Ole Miss, they're absolutely built to play from behind because then Trinidad Chambers can do a little off script stuff. I always think underdogs get in trouble when they're stabbed. Ole Miss can throw it if they're forced to or they want to. They're fine throwing the football. So they're built to, you know, be outplayed for three quarters and come roaring back and win. And I there, I can't wait to. I do like Miami. I think Miami is the most physical, I hate to use the word, but the most violent physical team I've seen. That's what the Buckeyes were last year.

[Joel Klatt]

Sure.

[Jason McIntyre]

And they beat people up physically.

[Joel Klatt]

Yeah, I would agree with that. I think it comes down to two things. Pay attention obviously to quarterback play.

[Jason McIntyre]

But.

[Joel Klatt]

But here's the deal. Colin Carson Beck has been allowed to play in manageable third down situations and he's been brilliant doing. So if he can do that, Miami will succeed.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yep. Joel Clack. Great stuff, Joel. Appreciate it. On a Tuesday.

[Joel Klatt]

Awesome. But have a good one.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, I mean that. Listen, you could. There's an argument that the best offense left is not Indiana, Oregon. It's actually Ole Miss. So Ole Miss, and you saw it against Georgia. I like underdogs when they can, you know, like Chicago is a great example. Chicago can be brilliant. They get outplayed against Detroit the entire game, then you look up and six minutes later it's tied. So Ole Miss has the ability to do that. You know, it's just interesting. The best SEC team now doesn't have a good defense. They're led by offense. Welcome to 2025 and 2026 college football herd hierarchy. Last one of the regular season. Next foreign.

[Ed Zitron]

I'm Ed Zitron of the Better Offline Podcast and I want you to join me at this year's Consumer Electronics show in Las Vegas, Nevada. Starting January 6th through January 10th, 2026, we're doing 10 radio style podcast episodes about the world's biggest tech conference. And I'll be joined by David Roth, Chloe Radcliffe, Adam Conover, Corey Doctorow, and a host of other guests to tell you all about what the tech industry is dead desperate to sell you in 2026.

[Jason McIntyre]

Today I did five hours of back to back panels on artificial intelligence. It included a number of great moments, including an entire room full of people laughing about people losing their jobs due to artificial intelligence.

[Ed Zitron]

It's going to be the single best coverage of CES ever recorded, even if it kills us. Listen to Better offline on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts Wherever you happen to get.

[Joel Klatt]

Your podcasts, this is an iHeart podcast.

[Jason McIntyre]

Guaranteed Human.