THE HERD - Hour 1 - Knicks come back from 22 down, Cavs epic collapse in the 4th, LeBron James not taking the veteran minimum

Summary

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The Herd with Colin Cowherd – May 20, 2026 (Hour 1)

Main Theme Overview

In this episode, Colin delves into pivotal NBA playoff storylines, dissecting the New York Knicks' stunning comeback against the Cavs, the late-game coaching choices that shaped the result, and the importance of usage rate and player roles in postseason success. He connects these NBA narratives to broader themes about roster construction, player management, and even touches on NFL storylines, including Josh Allen's reshaped Buffalo offense and leadership questions around Lamar Jackson. Throughout, Colin and co-host Jason McIntyre debate the challenge of balancing player egos, team strategy, and the fast-evolving dynamics in both basketball and football.

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Knicks’ Comeback, Usage Rate, and Brunson’s Evolution

Knicks Rally from 22 Down Against Cavs

• Colin opens by describing the Knicks' performance: trailing the Hawks 2-1 in the series, they made a key tactical adjustment—letting Karl-Anthony Towns handle more of the offense to reduce Jalen Brunson’s usage and preserve his energy. (02:00)
• “The story last night was usage rate because Brunson’s a smaller player … he’s pounding that ball … what happens is he’s not a great defender. Teams can target him, wear him down. But that’s not the Knicks since they’ve made that alteration … They’re averaging 124 a game and they’re 8-0.” — Colin Cowherd [02:48]
• In the last 7:45 of the fourth and overtime, Brunson scored 17 points to the Cavs’ 11, showing the benefit of his late-game energy. Meanwhile, James Harden, “now old and never been a good defensive player,” was exposed.
• Towns tripled his assists compared to past years and now matches SGA (Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, the reigning MVP) in assists.

Key Discussion: Usage Rate and Postseason Adjustments

• Colin draws broader lessons from the game:
  • High usage star guards (Luka, Harden, Brunson) tend to wear down in long series.
  • Knicks reduced Brunson’s ball dominance, keeping his legs fresh for crunch time.
  • Cavs and Mike Brown attacked Harden as the “high usage rate guy,” exposing his defensive flaws.
• “Kobe Bryant used to tell guys, ‘You gotta have energy. The game’s gonna be decided in the fourth quarter.’” — Colin Cowherd [04:45]

Mike Brown Soundbite

• “Sometimes you gotta do what the game dictates. … We were attacking Harden.” — Mike Brown [07:03]

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Coaching and Timeout Decisions: Atkinson’s Choice Under Fire

Kenny Atkinson’s Coaching Call in Question

• Colin analyzes the Cavs' blown lead and the late timeout. He emphasizes the difference between coaching at home and on the road:
  • “If my kids are melting down at home, I let them work their way through it. … On the road, at a restaurant, at a friend’s house—Dad calls a timeout, stops the momentum.” [18:37]
  • He argues Atkinson should’ve called timeout earlier when the Madison Square Garden crowd caught fire.
• “The Knicks were a great fourth quarter team this year. … Since they’ve been keeping track … the Knicks are the best fourth quarter team ever.” — Colin Cowherd [19:44]

Kenny Atkinson’s Explanation

• “We played great basketball tonight for three quarters. Yeah, I like to hold my timeouts. … I didn’t want to have one timeout at the end of the game, one or two point game. I try to hold them.” — Kenny Atkinson [21:49]

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Lakers, LeBron, and Team-Building Dilemmas

LeBron’s Future and Roster Construction

• Colin reacts to a report that “LeBron James taking veteran minimum ‘not in the cards at all,’” and uses the Harden/Luka parallels to illustrate the Lakers’ issues:
  • “The Lakers have over-indexed in guys that need the ball and can’t defend. … If LeBron’s not taking that minimum, winning maximum is absolutely capped.” [09:33]
  • The point: The Lakers need to shed salary to add switchable, athletic defenders if they want to contend in the West, especially with an aging LeBron.

Quotes:

• “You wake up for a Laker breakfast. You have 12 eggs, no toast, no sausage, no bacon, no butter, no coffee, no salt—but we got 12 eggs.” — Colin Cowherd [09:26]
• “If you won’t take the league minimum, then it puts a cap on your winning maximum.” — Colin Cowherd [09:41]
• Jason McIntyre injects hypothetical negotiation dialogue:
  • “Hey, so yeah, I would consider the vet minimum. I need to know where you’re going to spend that other $20 million you could give me. What are you going to do?” [12:32]
• Colin stresses that, unlike Tom Brady, LeBron at 41 can’t dictate terms anymore. [13:11]

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Mavericks’ Coaching Shake-Up & Cooper Flagg’s Introduction

Jason Kidd Fired; Dallas in Flux

• Jason McIntyre reports surprising Mavs coaching changes, questioning the impact on top prospect Cooper Flagg. [24:10]
• Colin differentiates between great players becoming coaches/executives: “He was an all-time great player. I think he was an okay coach. … The further he gets away from the game, the less effective he would be.” [25:04]

On Cooper Flagg’s Mindset:

• Jason: “Is this a fun welcome to the NBA for Cooper Flagg?”
• Colin: “It’s not how it starts, it’s how it ends. … He’s still three years from his prime.” [26:58]

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NFL Touchpoints: Bills’ New Look, Lamar’s “Tone-Setter” Absence

Josh Allen & DJ Moore’s Chemistry in Buffalo

• Allen talks about DJ Moore becoming a fast favorite in the Bills locker room. [28:31]
• Colin is bullish: “Chicago’s gonna miss him more than they think, and Buffalo’s not going to believe how effective he is.” [29:19]
• Both predict the Bills as division favorites, dismissing the Dolphins and Jets’ chances. [30:50]

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Lamar Jackson & Attendance Concerns

• Colin sharply critiques Lamar Jackson’s absence from Ravens OTA with a new coach and OC:

  • “He shrinks in the postseason, and again, I need him at OTAs. … You gotta be the tone setter, gotta show up, gotta put the work in.” [43:44]
  • Draws a parallel to Giannis in Milwaukee, where “he does what he does when he wants to do it, on his terms. … End of the year is not ending well.” [44:00]

• Jason McIntyre presses if Justin Herbert should be held to the same standard, but Colin argues circumstances differ.

Football’s Culture Versus NBA/International Soccer

• Colin: “Football to me, tends to be about the collaborative. ... But in basketball, one or two stars can shape the whole ecosystem.” [47:17]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

On Roster Balance (Lakers):

“They’ve over-indexed in one area and massively under-indexed in the other.” — Colin Cowherd [10:13]

On Player Energy and Usage:

“You gotta create a Laker roster where Luka, when he does get burned defensively, you’ve got a wall at the rim and multiple, not one, multiple, young, twitchy, athletic, switchable wing defenders. Lakers don’t have any of those.” — Colin Cowherd [10:57]

On Brunson and Knicks Adjustment:

“The guy with the Knicks that used to have the ball too much now has it less. That preserves his energy.” — Colin Cowherd [06:41]

On Wemby’s Competitive Spirit:

“He’s kind of steak frites. It may be traditionally French, but let’s be honest, it’s steak and potatoes. That’s as American as it gets. That’s what he is. … And he doesn’t apologize for it.” — Colin Cowherd [37:00]

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Notable Timestamps

• Knicks comeback & usage discussion: 02:00 – 09:30
• Mike Brown on attacking Harden: 07:03
• LeBron minimum contract debate & Lakers’ roster issues: 09:30 – 14:10
• Cavs’ blown lead & Atkinson timeout criticism: 18:37 – 22:40
• Kenny Atkinson’s postgame defense: 21:49
• Mavs coaching moves/Cooper Flagg talk: 24:10 – 27:54
• NFL headlines (Josh Allen, Lamar): 28:31 – 44:55
• Wemby’s ‘American Spirit’ and ambition: 36:31 – 39:27
• Lamar Jackson’s OTA absence explained: 43:44 – 44:05

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Final Impressions

This episode is classic Cowherd: data-driven, opinionated, often provocative, and laced with analogies that bridge sports and life. The key threads—Knicks’ tactical evolution, the playoff cost of high-usage stars, Lakers’ team-building woes, the turbulence in Dallas, and quarterback leadership in the NFL—all echo a single premise: success in today’s sports is about adaptation, role clarity, and egoless team-building as much as it is about talent.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.

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[Colin Cowherd]

Hey, guys, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called hey Jonas.

[Jason McIntyre]

We invented a podcast.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, we didn't invent it. We. We just contributed to it. First people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being an asshol.

[Kenny Atkinson]

Questions.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick.

[Jason McIntyre]

Tired and sick.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jason McIntyre]

Just listen.

[Colin Cowherd]

We don't care where you hear it.

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[Colin Cowherd]

Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio at noon

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to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific.

[Colin Cowherd]

Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Now, let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio Conference Finals Basketball. It's something else, man. It is Wednesday. We are live and it's the Herd. Wherever you may be. However, wherever you may be watching. Thanks for making us part of your day. Felt like I watched two games last night for the Knicks. They trailed Atlanta 2 to 1 in the series. And they made a little alteration, which Wasn't so little. They said, you know, Brunson so ball centric, he wears down. Let's make Carl Anthony Towns have the ball in his hands and initiate offense to give Brunson some off ball rest. And the team's not as Jalen Brunson dependent. We talk about this all the time. Usage rate. The story last night was usage rate because Brunson's a smaller player. He's pounding that ball, he's by himself and he's great. But what happens is often, you know, he's not a great defender. Teams can target him, wear him down. But that's not the Knicks since they've made that alteration where he's off ball more. Yeah, they're averaging 124 a game and they're eight. No. And did you see all the energy Brunson had late in the game because he didn't have the ball in his hands nearly as much. Last 7:45 of the fourth quarter in overtime, dude scored 17 points, the Cavs scored 11. The guy that was worn down was James Harden, who's now old and never been a good defensive player. But remember this, this team was getting worked by the Atlanta Hawks, a bad basketball team that wouldn't sniff the playoffs in the West. A team that was like sub 500 in March and it was Mike Brown was going to get fired and they made an alteration. Let's take the ball out of our best player's hand, put it in our second best player's hand, at least offensively, it's going to retain more of Brunson's energy. And over the course of long series, that matters because sometimes people hunt him defensively and last night was a prime example. For the record, Carl Anthony Towns has tripled his assists this year in the playoffs. In seven fewer games, he's averaging as many assists. Now Cat is as sga, the reigning mvp. And by the way, speaking of usage rate, what did Mike Brown do? Because the Knicks were out of sync. I mean, the first three quarters of the game I'm like, they're going to win this series, but man, they are out of sync. Offensively, they were a bit of a mess. But what did Mike Brown do? Speaking of usage rate, let's go after their high usage rate guy, James Harden, and they just worked him. I mean, it was like the movie Momento over and over and over again. And we've seen this with Harden multiple times, but it used to be peak James Harden. You'd keep him on the floor late because he'd give you 31 and 10. Now you don't get 31 and 10. That's diminished. And he's still an absolute liability defensively. So he is really a regressing asset who you get spurts of. But it was just so interesting to me. The game was about usage rate. We've talked about this all the time. A lot of these high usage rate guys like a Luca, like a Harden, like a Brunson, they just wear down. Kobe Bryant late. Kobe Bryant used to tell guys, guys, you gotta have energy. The game's gonna be decided in the fourth quarter. And so Harden was always kind of a losing playoff proposition because he was such a lousy defender. He's always saved his energy for offense, but now you don't get the upside offense as often. And he's still awful defensively. So I said yesterday, before this series started, I like the Knicks in five. I said, the key to this series is going to be Jalen Brunson is going to eat Jalen Brunson because now, oh, geez, not 100% Jalen Brunson, they don't have anybody to guard him in this series. And I mean, for the Knicks to play, they were so out of sync offensively. I mean, this doesn't happen very often. The Madison Square Garden crowd was quiet. I mean, and that's one of the great basketball venues, maybe the best in the world. And it was pretty quiet because it's just hard to watch. They couldn't get any rhythm. And. And then all of a sudden, I mean, give Mike Brown credit. Last nine minutes of that game. And then inexplicably, Kenny Atkinson wouldn't call a timeout and doubled too late. By that time, the momentum was done, but it was usage rate. The guy with the Knicks that used to have the ball too much now has it less. That preserves his energy. And Mike Brown attacked their usage rate guy, James Harden to perfection. And here's Mike after.

[Mike Brown]

Sometimes you gotta do what the game dictates. And they were trying to do the same thing with Jalen. And so we said, okay, you know, we feel like we could play that game. We try not to play that game much, but we feel like we have a guy that we can play that game with and Jalen. And so, you know, just like we have to try to figure out different ways to guard Harden and, and, and Mitchell, they got to figure out different ways to guard Jalen. But we were, it was no secret. We were attacking hard.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, we've always said the regular season and the postseason are different. What's interesting for the Knicks is their postseason and their postseason have been different. The first three games against Atlanta, a really mediocre team. You're like, man, this isn't working from that point forward. Eight, no 124 a game. Brunson's got great energy in the fourth quarter and Carl Anthony Towns now takes a little bit of a load off offensively. And Kat's always been a highly skilled player. I know Nick fans are like, Colin, you didn't like us. Well, you weren't this team. One of the reasons I didn't like you, I said, you're a good team. But you know, how are you going to be late in games when people are hunting your two defensive liabilities and you got a ball centric guard? Well, they've really solved that latter issue. So I saw. Here's what I saw this headline this morning, speaking of usage rate, LeBron James taking veteran minimum quote not in the cards at all. So I'm watching the Harden meltdown debacle and you know what I was thinking of watching this JJ Redick Lakers coach okay, I like Luca more than Harden. He's just a bigger, stronger athlete. But Luca and Harden have a lot in common. They're not great athletes, just great scorers. Never in the world's best shape, step back big part of their game and ball centric defensive liabilities. In fact, the one time Luka had playoff success, Dallas surrounded him with switchable, twitchy, long, young athletic wings and rim defenders. You know, the two food groups the Lakers have none of. So just interesting watching Harden. So when LeBron and company leak, their side leaks. Not in the Cards will not take a player minimum. Well, sorry guys, but you need about three assets, maybe four on that Laker team to protect Luca going forward. So the Lakers have talent. We've said that they've got talent, but they've over indexed in guys that need the ball that are also poor defenders. It's like the Lakers. You wake up for a Laker breakfast. You have 12 eggs, no toast, no sausage, no bacon, no butter, no coffee, no salt, but we got 12 eggs. They've over indexed in offensive guys that need the ball that can't defend. So when, when LeBron says and his camp leaks veteran minimum off the table, you know what I see a door slamming on beating OKC or San Antonio the next five years. Because taking a league minimum, you know, if you won't take the league minimum, then it puts a cap on your winning maximum. That is the absolute truth about the Lakers, right? Now, if LeBron's not taking that minimum winning maximum is absolutely capped. You watch Harden. I mean, the Knicks figured it out. We got to get the ball out. And it don't conflate that the Knicks don't love Brunson. They want Brunson to have that ball and have more energy late. They're protecting Brunson. That's how much the Knicks love him. We don't want our guy to have the ball 44 minutes in his hand. So I've said before, you've got to create a Laker roster where Luka, when he does get burned defensively, you've got a wall at the rim and you've got multiple, not one multiple, young, twitchy, athletic, switchable wing defenders. Lakers don't have any of those. So they've over indexed in one area and massively under indexed in another and the other one. That's what they need. So as I read that, you know what's funny is when The Lakers hired J.J. redick, they were hiring LeBron's broadcast podcast partner. We're going to see how close they are because the Lakers aren't moving off J.J. redick. He had a spectacular season and they're not moving off Luca. We'll never forget Lamont and his camp. Just moved out of Miami. Didn't even give D. Wade a phone call. And I've defended LeBron to the end, but you know, they've taken care of their own business first. Even d. Wade and LeBron were, I mean, they were, you know, tight and he just, he just moved on. Well, so maybe don't expect you get a, you know, three week heads up on, bro. That's, that's what we're offering the league minimum. That's what I, I watch these games. I'm thinking other teams. Jason's just laughing over there, but I

[Jason McIntyre]

mean, it feels like stir the pot Wednesday. Cower not in the cards. So let's spin this forward. Okay, I'm the Lakers or I'll be LeBron, you be the Lakers. Hey, so yeah, I would consider the vet minimum. I need to know where you're going to spend that other $20 million you could give me. What are you going to do?

[Colin Cowherd]

I'm going to get Jaden McDaniels from the T Wolves and Robert Williams to defend the rim.

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay, I'll take the vet minimum. That sounds easy. LeBron would probably take it if you could get those guys. What if you can't though, Colin? What if you can't get Jaden McDaniels and Robert Williams or Mark Williams. Like, I mean, just. Should LeBron take less for them to take a flyer on guys like Jake Laravian?

[Colin Cowherd]

When Tom Brady wasn't taking the maximum he could, did he go to Belichick and demand, where are you spending the money? You think really, LeBron's going to be able to go to the Lakers and go, okay, I'll do it. But where you spend the money, you're a player. Their coaches, GMs, and owners, it's different. And LeBron's not in his prime anymore. LeBron's now in his 40s. He's not going to dictate where we go and spend the money.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, Tom Brady did famously leave New England, went to Tampa and said, hey, Gronk, come Antonio Brown, come on.

[Colin Cowherd]

After. After two dynasties in 20 years, it's fair. Yeah. So I. It's this idea that LeBron at 41, can dictate terms. Okay, I'll do this if you do that. No, we're going to do this and you're going to do that or we're going to move on.

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean, the way you frame it, shucks, we wanted to see in the last of LeBron because he's not going to play in Orlando or Cleveland. LeBron, Golden State.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, it's. It's it. My take is two things are true. I can be a fan of LeBron the asset and LeBron the human, and LeBron the player. But at 41, you're not dictating terms when we have three or four assets that we need to elevate. There's only one way Luke has ever had playoff success. That Dallas team that was young, long, athletic rim protectors and switchable defenders. Stuff the Lakers don't have. So you. You can watch WEMBY and OKC and delude yourself with Luke and Austin. Reeves and LeBron are going to compete with that. No, they're not. Hell, we don't even know if Luke and Austin Reaves can stay healthy for a season. When you lean on them offensively to the level the Lakers lean on them, that's being totally fair. That's not an anti Laker take. That's just data. I mean, second straight year Luke is banged up. Second straight year Austin's banged up, LeBron's getting a year older. I'm not saying anything the data doesn't show you is true. You think I'm out here stirring the pot? I'm just. I'm just opening the lid of the pot and letting you look into it. This soup is made. I'm just opening the pot for everybody to see. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays, noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

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[Colin Cowherd]

It's easy.

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[Colin Cowherd]

the big stories of the game last night is the Knicks were going on that huge run late. Why didn't the Cavs head coach, Kenny Atkinson call a timeout? So let's not go crazy. I've seen Steve Kerr blow leads. Phil Jackson, Chuck Daly, Greg Popovich. If you've been in the playoffs for any extended time, you will blow a lead. Some superstar will take it over. Some good great player gets hot. So it's. It's not the end of the world. But you're going to think I'm weird on this. This is where I think coaching and parenting is similar. I've always said this about my kids. If my kids are melting down at home, I'm going to let them work their way through it. I'm not going to call a timeout. I'm going to let you yell and scream and go to your room and just. You'll be. You'll fall asleep. You'll be exhausted. At home, I parent one way. On the road, at a restaurant, on a plane, at a friend's house. Dad calls a timeout. Stop the momentum. When you're on the road, which the Cavs were, and Madison Square Garden's going crazy. Kenny, call a timeout. This is not a home game. You are watching the Knicks feed off the home energy. I'm telling you, I parent like I would coach at home. Phil Jackson was legendary. Guy's got 11 rings as a coach. Phil Jackson was legendary. Especially at home. Let the Lakers work through their problems now. You know, Phil, obviously, if you get into Certain big games, you got to watch out. But. But when you're on the road, because remember, sports is mostly pro. Sports is mostly young, athletic men. Young athletic men, the younger they are, the more they feed off energy. That's why you'll often see young teams have these huge highs and lows. Now, Cat's a veteran player, Brunson's been around, but they got some young guys around there. And so to me, you're on the road. Call a timeout. He. I mean, the CAVS led by 22 with 750 left. And one of the things I didn't like, they took their foot off the gas. They kind of looked like they were milking the clock. That's another thing. I would be more willing to do that at home. But remember, the Knicks were a great fourth quarter team this year. So you got to know that going into a series, we're on the road. The Knicks are great in the fourth quarter. If we get a lead, even if it's sizable, okay, we got to keep the foot on the gas. The Knicks are not your average team. Since they've been keeping track of the stats on it, the Knicks are the best fourth quarter team ever. So for three quarters, you're thinking to yourself, man, this crowd is quiet. I mean, 30 to eight run before he called a timeout. Come on, you're faced. Brunson's great offensive player, some limitations defensively inside. Great offensive player, great fourth quarter team. The crowd's on fire. You're on the road. You can steal home court advantage. Call a to. Here was the coach after.

[Kenny Atkinson]

I thought they hit some really tough shots in that fourth quarter. You know, those two threes, prayer threes and a shot clock. I think we got a little unlucky, quite honestly. You know, Brunson obviously took over at the end and, you know, we started double teaming. I'm gonna try to try to do some different things. But listen, I'm super proud of the way our group played. We played great basketball tonight for, you know, three quarters. Yeah, I like to hold my timeouts. I mean, you know, I didn't want to have one timeout at the end of the game. One or two point game. I try to hold them, you know,

[Colin Cowherd]

again at home, I'd consider it. It is hard for a team to have a 30 to 8 run on the road. It's just harder. I mean, the crowds matter. In the NBA, no professional sports. In hockey, you got the glass. In football, they're far away. In baseball, outside of Fenway, they're miles Away in the NBA, college basketball fans are on top of you. You can hear them chatter. Anybody that's gone to an NBA game, you can hear the players talk and they can hear you. You know, I've talked to players before they go to a game. They love going to New York and la. They can all spot the celebrities in the first three rows. They're talking about it the whole game. Like you are part of the action in basketball. So I tend to look at how you coach on the road, how you coach at home. What's the environment? Are they a good fourth quarter team? Do I have a defensive liability? Are they attacking me in this instance? And I don't. I'm not a coach, but this is one of those rare instances I'd have called a timeout earlier, just that's what I would have done. It felt like the Cavs with that lead late and again, maybe at home you do this. It was like they were looking at the finish line instead of finishing the assignment. They were kind of looking down the road and going. And you know, it's not the first coach to do this. This is not the first team. I don't buy the series is over. How do you recover their young athletes? And James Harden is not his first rodeo. Okay, Donovan Mitchell, they've been around a long. Kenny Atkinson's been around the league forever. The Cavs aren't finished. I think. I don't think they have the ability to stop Brunson in this series. I think that's going to be a problem. But we said that before the series started. Brunson is really a matchup problem for Cleveland in this series because Mitchell's not a good defender, Harden's worse. J. Mac with the news. No, no, turn on the news. This is the Herd line news.

[Jason McIntyre]

Bit of a surprise in the NBA yesterday. The Dallas Mavericks, who have Cooper flag as their centerpiece, have now fired their head coach. Yeah, Jason Kidd after five seasons. I'm not going to cite his record with the Mavs because it's goofy given they were essentially tanking this year. And last year they traded Luka midway through. He did guide them to the finals in 24, they lost to Boston. This was a bit of a surprise to me. Colin Masai uiri is the new president. There are reports that after Nico Harrison was booted, Jason Kidd went to management and was like, hey, I could do both roles. I could be president, coach or, you know, it floated that. Then they hire Ujiri who clearly wants to, well, expunge everything that involved the Luka Doncic era. Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

And there's a lot of reports that Jason Kidd was done with coaching and wanted to move upstairs and he was not going to move upstairs, so. And Jason Kidd's. He's a fine coach. I don't think. Is he exceptional?

[Commercial Announcer]

I don't know.

[Colin Cowherd]

But kid wanted to go upstairs and I don't think he would be a great executive. I don't, I don't. I think he was an all time great player. I think he was an okay coach. I think the further he gets away from the game the least, the less effective he would be. I don't see him as a great front office guy. I think he was a great player and he's an okay coach. I don't think he's bad coach. I think he's fine. But in the end, he wanted to go upstairs. He wanted to do a Brad Stevens. Now, Brad Stevens is different. Brad wasn't a great player. Brad's a grinder. Brad was an excellent coach. I think Brad's a highly effective guy Upstairs. I don't think in just my opinion that would. Players generally, even Steve Kerr, as great as he is, good player, great coach, great broadcaster. Okay, upstairs, Phil Jackson, I mean, brilliant guy, general manager. It's a grinder job. I don't, I, I just think upstairs, in any. You could be a hockey executive, a baseball executive. Are you willing to work 70 hours and not make nearly as much as everybody around you?

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. Let me ask you this, Colin. From the Cooper flag perspective on the Jason kid firing. So you take a new job, right? And the guy who hired you, he gets bounced. And then the second in command essentially gets bounced. And one of the centerpieces, Cooper Flagg, was there next to Anthony Davis. They were all excited. He gets traded. This is your first year, your introduction to the league. I'm just curious, how much of an impact do you think this has on just the mentality of Cooper Flag? Like, wait a minute, I was in stability in high school and Duke and now what the hell's going on here?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, I mean, look at LeBron was in Cleveland for seven years and they couldn't get him a legitimate all Star in seven years.

[Jason McIntyre]

And what happened?

[Colin Cowherd]

He had the greatest basketball career in

[Commercial Announcer]

the history of the sport.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, he left. He went to Miami. So I wonder if Cooper flags. This is dysfunctional, you know.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, no, I think when you're. He's still, you know, I don't think. Listen, it's not how it starts, it's how it ends. You can go lock A lot of pro athletes, a lot of our broadcasting careers. The bottom line is you're going to hit your stride as a player by like 26 on, you know, with the nutrition and all the standards now and the training pro athletes. I mean, just 35 doesn't necessarily mean it's the end. If you take care of yourself. 38 is when you start thinking about it. So I think he's still 30 years. He's still three years from his prime. Is. What is he, 20, 21?

[Jason McIntyre]

I think he was 19 most of the season.

[Colin Cowherd]

So, I mean, he's got. I think. Let's not. The other thing is the draft is going to be better going forward than it was in the previous decade. So if Dallas is bad, they're going to get top six, seven picks. He'll find a running mate.

[Jason McIntyre]

By the. For the record, Kyrie Irving, one of the last remnants of the Luca era, is heavily rumored to be on the move this summer. So now you're looking at Cooper Flag. He's looking around. Coach is gone, GM's gone. AD Kyrie is being linked to Detroit, among other teams. I. I just. I don't know if this is a fun welcome to the NBA for Cooper Flag, but like you said, he's a young guy. All right, let's move on to the NFL. And Josh Allen got a big weapon in Buffalo this offseason. DJ Moore, your guy from Chicago, he's in the building here. Is Josh Allen really stoked about working with a potential number one wide receiver in D.J. moore?

[Colin Cowherd]

It's been awesome. He's my locker mate. We go actually way back. We sat next to each other at the rookie premiere, signing Panini cards and autograph cars cards next to each other. He's really one of the guys, and obviously it's a really natural relationship that we have. And he fits in this locker room extremely well. Very talkative with the guys and, you know, just very excited to work with him. Yeah. Old, cynical Jason. Didn't think this was gonna work. DJ Moore is a. I'll. I'll say this. Chicago's gonna miss him more than they think. And Buffalo's not going to believe how effective he is. Very optimistic, never misses a start. Tough, durable. Got a little frustrated in Chicago because. And I don't blame him. You know, Caleb's learning the offense. Luther Burden, Colston Loveland became really big primary targets, so he felt sometimes a little lost. You know, he ran a lot of routes. He was open and didn't get the ball probably as much as he wanted In Buffalo. That will not be a problem.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, just a lot of newness in Buffalo. New head coach, new number one wide receiver. Josh Allen is now a new father. You know, had his first baby this offseason.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

New. New postseason results is what I see.

[Jason McIntyre]

Oh, really? What? He's sniffing a Bill's Super Bowl. Really?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[Jason McIntyre]

Are you on that?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, let's look at this. Let's take a gander at the schedule. Oh, my gosh. Holy hell. Look at those first five games.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, no. First five weeks are brutal. Then it softens up considerably.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, well.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, come on. End of the year, Jets, Dolphins, you

[Jason McIntyre]

know, Chiefs on a short week is that looks like week 12.

[Colin Cowherd]

If you get the jets and the Dolphins twice. Let's just put four and, oh, down.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, they get jets and Dolphins four times in the second half of the season.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. So let's put down four and, oh for that.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's four.

[Colin Cowherd]

And then. And. And then, by the way, you know, games like Minnesota, you know, feels like a W. You can put that down. They get Kansas City at home, they get the Chargers at home. A lot of those tough games, New England at home. They're going to be fine.

[Jason McIntyre]

They're going to be Buffalo. Well, I mean, who's winning the division? It ain't the Dolphins. It's not the Jets.

[Colin Cowherd]

No. It's the Bills.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, it's going to be the Bills. No, no. Final story. Colin. Hey, how about this? So, some conspiracy theories abounding. Do you remember when the Rams were kicking the tires on A.J. brown? There was a lot of chatter that they could move Devonte Adams and bring in A.J. brown. The Rams essentially admitted Snead and McVay that they talked about A.J. brown, but ultimately didn't pull the trigger. Now, now, here we are, May 20th, we're hearing. Well, maybe that's not dead. Totally. Let me hear your take before I offer mine.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, devonte Adams is still really good. What did he. How many touchdowns he have last year?

[Jason McIntyre]

Like, I think he led the league in touchdowns. He was up there.

[Colin Cowherd]

He was going to be on his, you know, best behavior this year. Hopefully. They've got a. They've got three or four, like, ancillary pieces that are all capable. They have great tight end play, two backside trust, solid offensive line, and a star quarterback. They're not missing weapons now. I do. I wish they were a little better at center. Yeah, but they're not. I mean, they. They. The Rams drafted another receiver, Daniels, out of Miami, who. You watch. He'll end up being like a late round productive receiver. It's what they do. But I don't think wide. Once they solve corner. My only concern with this football team is punt returner. I don't think they have a hole.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's it.

[Colin Cowherd]

They solve corner issue. I don't think they have a hole.

[Jason McIntyre]

So let me ask you, we're, we're 10 days, 11 days away from the big June 1st deal, right. With A.J. brown. All of a sudden now we're hearing the Rams, maybe it's not dead. Is this Howie Roseman trying to drive up the price on A.J. brown saying, right, Patriots, hey, you think you can get it for this? Well, you know, price might go up. The Rams are still alive.

[Colin Cowherd]

You've always been good at this. You've always done a good job of sniffing out why a story is a story. We often say this on the show. Why do stories get out and now somebody, somebody wants this out. It's like the LeBron story. LeBron. It comes out of the camp. League minimum off the table. That must be great journalism or somebody got a call. J. Mac with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the herd lie news I top. You know, we got four teams left in the NBA. Knicks, Cavs last night, Thunder, Spurs. Who are the 10 best players one through 10 remaining in the NBA. I'll give you my thoughts on that one star I don't like is everybody else as much as everybody else does. It's not Brunson. I like Brunson. Yeah. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

greatest spectacle in racing is coming. It's the 110th running of the Indianapolis 500. Don't miss the pageantry and tradition of the biggest race in motorsports. Coverage of the Indy 500 begins at 10am Eastern with the green flag at 12:30 Sunday on Fox.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen, you should have a purpose in life. Happiest people they discover through studies have a purpose in life. And sometimes that purpose is your job. Well, you cannot be defined by your job. Well, I don't know. I think LeBron Brady are happy guys. They're kind of defined by their sports. Doesn't mean they're not great dads. Don't listen to anybody. The bottom line is if you're ambitious, don't apologize for it. And that's why I really like wemby he, of all the international players, he really has the American spirit. He's hyper competitive. He wants to win every award. He's outspoken. He'll talk politics. He doesn't care. He'll tell you how he feels. He wants to dominate the All Star Game. They call him the 80. His nickname is the Alien. And he's like, bring me your leader. I want to dunk on him. I love it. Yich is great. He feels very Euro, hates the All Star Game instantly. Wants to go home after the season ends. Doesn't really care about endorsements. That is fine. That's a way to do it. But if you look at the MJ's and the magics, you know, the Dr. J's, the Shaqs, they're unapologetically ambitious. They like the money, they like the fame, they like the titles, they like what comes with it. I like that. You know, he's. I. I think he's great. I think he's got kind of an American spirit. I think Giannis has developed one over time. I feel like with Wemby here posing. I love this. He had it the day he walked in the door. You know, he. He's kind of steak fres. It may be traditionally French, but let's be honest, it's steak and potatoes. That's as American as it gets. That's what he is, traditionally French, but he's us. And he doesn't apologize for it. And from day one, he's been like this. He wants to dominate the All Star Game. He wants a nickname. He's outspoken. Don't be embarrassed about it. All the great players, you know, whenever you read the media, sometimes they kind of roll their eyes. Overly ambitious. The people that make the phone you're holding or the waymo you get into, they're ambitious. They're not all brilliant. They didn't all go to Harvard, but they're unapologetically ambitious. That is Wemby. And earlier this week, he talked about sga winning the mvp. Just curious if that was in your mind at all, knowing that Shea had

[Jason McIntyre]

got that award and you were in

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the top three for it and, you know, did any part of tonight feel personal?

[Jason McIntyre]

Somebody, your facial expressions kind of look like you were really, really going for it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, for sure. Everything you just said, I still got a lot to learn, And I want to get that trophy, you know, many

[Mike Brown]

times in my career.

[Colin Cowherd]

So this story is. I didn't know when he got drafted. I had no idea what Lamar Jackson was going to be. I watched him in college at Louisville. And I'm like, you know, every time third down comes, he's off to the races. I don't know if that's going to work in the pros. We'll see. And then the first time I saw him was actually I went and watched him live play a game against the Chargers. And I was just like, whoa, this is just. This is like Michael Vick plus. And I've always said he's a much better passer in the pocket than he gets credit for. He wasn't initially, but he's developed into a nice pocket passer. But the thing about being a quarterback, it is, for better or worse, it is a tone setter. It's not just any position. And I, I saw this story. Lamar Jackson, once again, not in attendance at the Ravens OTA practice. And so a trend is emerging in his career. He's disappointing at the end of seasons, and sometimes he shows up to this stuff and sometimes he doesn't. And don't forget that ugly article that was written by a local newspaper, Baltimore Sun. Okay. A guy that had to go see him the next day in the locker room about. He was distracted, he was difficult, he wasn't always focused. Football wasn't always number one. And we have to be totally upfront about this. Don't make this Giannis in Milwaukee, where everybody's walking on eggshells. If you go look in the postseason, much to the chagrin of everybody around Baltimore, he is not the same quarterback. Not only doesn't he win his quarterback rating, his passer rating plummets to 84. So again, now he's on his second coach, now he's on his fourth offensive coordinator. He shrinks in the postseason, and again, I need him at OTAs. It's not the end of the world, but you got a new coach. I criticized Aaron Rodgers for this when he went to the Jets. Dude, new coach, new culture, it matters more. I know you're smart and a veteran, but it matters more. So now you got a new coach, new culture, and the tone center is not there. And it feels very. Now Giannis has a title, actually, but it feels very Giannis in Milwaukee, where it's like you're hearing stories about, yeah, he kind of. He does what he does when he wants to do it, you know, on his terms. People waiting around for him. He's getting very expensive. Giannis and Lamar, end of the year is not ending well. Playoff games are kind of brutal. He's injured more. All that stuff matters. I didn't know what to make of Lamar College to the pros. Then I watched him and watched him live and I was like, wow, I gave him a lot of credit. You know, I've always said it's hard to win in the playoffs. Bill Parcells, you know, it's hard to win in the playoffs. Andy Reid, you know, got to a lot of conference championships in Philly, didn't have a great quarterback. Hard to win. But here, here's, here's. And again, instead of just calling it out, Jesse Minters Young, it's his first head coaching job. Lamar's a star. There's the contract coming up. So he, he soft plays it. Lamar has been one of our leaders of the off season program and a couple things going on yesterday and today and do expect him to be back soon. We've had some great conversations. No, no. When he's going to be back. And again, I'll probably leave those between me and Lamar. Yeah. This is the plane being late, not due to weather. The pilots came in four hours late. Like, that's. The planes are late all the time. Why are they late? Lightning strike, bird strike. Okay. Pilots got a hangover. Not okay. Right. Like, there's reasons I'm going to be judging that airline differently. And I, you know, hey, we've had great conversations. Well, I have four of those a day. What does that mean? That doesn't, you know, if I didn't show up to the show, my boss said, you know, we had great conversations all yesterday. He hasn't shown up to do a show recently. But our conversations are top notch. You got to be the tone setter, got to show up, got to put the work in. And I've defended him for a long time, but we're getting into a, we're getting into a weird pattern here with him, you know, and it does matter. Again, if he was hoisting a trophy two of the last four years. Be a totally different ballgame. Same with Giannis. If you weren't getting bounced in the first round or Embiid. It's a totally different ballgame. You know, what's, what's the old saying about American Express? Membership has its privileges, championships have their privileges. It's a different off season when you're hoisting a trophy, even if you're a quarterback. I don't know. I'm just, just about to sell my stock on the Marjorie Mac.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, you know, in an effort to be fair and balanced, you know, people love when we bang on quarterbacks for this kind of thing. However, Justin Herbert has not shown up at OTAs. Now, you could argue, well, hey, he's a young guy, doesn't have a playoff win, new oc, new system. Are we going to hold him to the same standard Lamar is being held to now? Lamar's a little older, more of a veteran, but he has a new coach, new OC like, again, I don't know. I mean, we, you know, you can ask these former pro players, does this even matter? But I don't think it's less about that. It's like you're a leader. You're the guy everybody looks to. You can't just show up. You couldn't schedule your vacations or whatever. You had doctor's appointments.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think it's fair to criticize Justin Herbert. I haven't seen the story on him. Lamar is obviously.

[Jason McIntyre]

There's no story. That's the thing. It's not like a big deal out here in L. A.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, you. Yeah, well, I think the feeling is Harbaugh is going into year three. So, you know, the culture with Jim Harbaugh, it's not a new coach. It's a legitimate big time coach. For all we know, Harbaugh told him, okay, it's the third year, dude, let's get, let's get some of the reps for some other guys. But it does feel part of the story. Here is Robert. Solid jets with Aaron, dude, new coach, new system, new off season.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Can you show up Jesse Minter? Yeah, I mean, I think that that is a big part of it. We, the coach is trying to create a new culture. Part of that starts with the guy, you know, Bill Belichick was recently on a Sean Hannity podcast and there was a lot of good nuggets in there. And one of them is, you know, he beat on Tom to kind of open the door for criticizing others. Pop would do this with Duncan. So the Ravens, by the way, have a new head coach, a new offensive coordinator, they have a new center because Tyler Linderbaum now is a Raider. So center coordinator, coach. And you just fired your coach. Meaning. And there's a sense that they got rid of the coach because Lamar wasn't down with the coach. So, like, they kind of handed the baton to Lamar Jackson. Okay, bro, it's your franchise. We're going to clean house. Okay. That's not what's happening necessarily with the Chargers. He is, you know, hardball. I've never heard him gush over a player like Herbert. Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

Now, now we see this in other sports. Giannis, the report just came out. He was. He was hours late for every plane.

[Colin Cowherd]

I don't like that.

[Jason McIntyre]

I don't. But you know how the star system works, Colin. You know how it works in sports. They're gonna listen. There was a story in mls, Messi in Miami. They're winning championships, are dominating, and the coach starts holding Messi accountable. Messi's like, who are you, bro? The guy's fired within a week. Like, this is what happens in pro sports, Colin. You know, the stars run the show. If Luka Doncic goes to the Lakers and says, we're keeping LeBron, I want him here. They're keeping LeBron. But is Luka gonna pound the table for more? I don't know.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think you're right. I think in international soccer and the NBA, which I've compared many times, star driven sports, where one or two players shape the entire ecosystem. Football's a little less like that. Even a great quarterback, Patrick Mahomes, if he didn't have a good offensive line, he can get blown out in any game.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I think football tends to be. Football to me, tends to be about the collaborative. Obviously, a great coach and a great quarterback set the table. But I mean, McVay, and this isn't a shot. The Rams discussed moving Stafford. Like that's. Nobody's discussing, you know, moving Wemby, Sir.

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[Colin Cowherd]

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