The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode: Knicks over Spurs to win the NBA Cup, Comparing Caleb Williams & Bo Nix
Date: December 17, 2025
Podcast: The Herd with Colin Cowherd (iHeartPodcasts / The Volume)

Episode Overview

This episode of The Herd explores two major themes:

1. The significance and reception of the NBA Cup, focusing on the New York Knicks’ victory over the Spurs.
2. A detailed comparison between young NFL quarterbacks Caleb Williams (Chicago Bears) and Bo Nix (Denver Broncos), their progress, and playoff chances.

The episode features energetic, candid analysis from host Colin Cowherd, with contributions from Ryan Wilson, Max, and Sophie Cunningham, and includes remarks from athletes and coaches. Cowherd’s overall tone is opinionated, optimistic, and often a challenge to sports cynicism.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The NBA Cup: Creation, Criticism, and Knicks’ Win

• Embracing Innovation in Sports (04:42 -- 07:37)
  • Cowherd defends the NBA Cup as a creative move, criticizing pessimists who oppose league innovation:
    • "There's people out there ... people that complain a lot, don't create a lot." (03:00)
    • He compares this to MLB’s event-driven marketing (like games at unique venues) and hails league efforts to make the regular season more relevant.
    • On the Knicks’ win: “I don't know how good the Knicks are...but big third quarter run, 13-1 run. They were into it. The league is trying to create, like baseball, some memorable events.” (06:07)
  • Cowherd credits Adam Silver and the NBA for embracing change and commends the league for boosting player engagement and TV ratings.
  • Notable quote:
    • "Optimists are more successful than pessimists. And I think Jalen Brunson and Adam Silver both liked it." (07:06)
  • Featured player reaction (Jalen Brunson):
    • "A game like this, an environment like this, you don't really see around the NBA too often. ... I think it's good that we won this. I think it's good that we were able to—the way we won it I think is special as well." (07:09)

2. Caleb Williams & Bo Nix: The Same Quarterback?

• Comparative Analysis (07:37 -- 12:42)
  • Cowherd insists the media overhypes Chicago (Williams) and underappreciates Denver (Nix) despite near-identical performance and supporting casts.
    • "If you look at their first two years in the NFL, they both have really, really elite, demanding offensive coaches ... they're the same quarterback through two years." (07:44)
  • Williams has a bigger arm; Nix is more accurate on short passes.
    • Next Gen stats show both are elite runners: Caleb Williams and Bo Nix lead in fastest QB runs this year.
    • "I was mocked yesterday saying Bo Nix reminds me of a young right-handed Steve Young." (08:35)
  • Both quarterbacks shine in the fourth quarter—unusual for young QBs.
  • Highlighted quote:
    • "You can't love one without the other. We're spending so much time because Chicago is a big market...I feel like I'm getting the same guy." (09:44)
  • Clip from Caleb Williams on prep for Green Bay:
    • "I feel that we're, you know, we're ready for just about anything. Hot weather, cold weather, whatever the case may be. We're going to go out there and fight. I do know that and I like our chances, us versus anybody." (10:55)
  • Cowherd: Both Denver and Chicago are “built for the playoffs”—physical, not “finesse.”

3. Super Bowl Bubble & Team Building

• Super Bowl Contenders Discussion (11:23 -- 15:26)
  • Cowherd lists his Super Bowl “bubble”: Rams, Seattle, Denver as primary favorites; Bears, Patriots, Texans, Bills as flawed but close.
    • "My Super Bowl bubble ... has the Rams, Seattle and Denver ... and then the Bears, Patriots, Texans and the Bills may have a flaw that I don’t love." (11:23)
  • Ryan Wilson agrees: "The league is so wide open heading into these playoffs ... if the Broncos made the Super Bowl, I wouldn't be shocked." (12:42)
  • Cowherd further points out that rookie contracts or team-friendly QB deals give teams greater roster flexibility, highlighting the financial aspect of championship windows:
    • "You can have Mahomes or Josh Allen, but if you’re paying 50 million, that’s the cap hit, then the Chiefs online stinks and the Bill’s defense stinks." (14:43)
  • Bills’ Josh Allen is cited as the only highly-paid QB still in the bubble.

4. Interceptions in Today’s NFL and QB Play

• Rethinking Interceptions (19:40 -- 24:02)
  • Cowherd argues old-school coaches overemphasize interception numbers, dismissing playmakers with aggressive mindsets.
    • "As long as your production is high, I don't have a problem with picks. I'd rather you have picks and throw the ball down the field." (19:43)
  • Cites data: recent Super Bowl-winning QBs often threw picks in the big game (including Stafford, Peyton Manning).
  • On Bo Nix:
    • "Bo Nix is a great example ... has nine picks this year. Whoa. But when trailing, he has 16 touchdowns and one pick." (20:53)
  • Stresses the value of aggressive QBs:
    • "I'm going to take big swings, aggressive quarterbacks who throw occasional picks every day of the week. Over underneath, safe guy every day of the week." (24:27)
  • Sam Darnold and Brock Purdy raised as exemplars of productive but risk-tolerant QBs.

5. “Soft Tanking” and the Quarterback Carousel

• Miami Dolphins & QB Moves (24:43 -- 29:37)
  • News: Miami benches Tua Tagovailoa for rookie Quinn Ewers. Cowherd calls it a soft/intelligent tank:
    • "You bring in the less ready backup, Quinn Ewers, virtually guaranteeing a loss to Cincy ... You're going to end up being what, 6 and 11? Your current 11th pick probably ends up like the 7th pick, 8th pick, giving you more draft ammunition..." (25:23)
  • Both hosts agree Ewers is less likely to win, but it clarifies draft position.
  • Discussion connects to Tua’s physical decline and comparison with other small QBs (Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray).
    • "Small quarterbacks fall off a cliff physically." (28:03)

6. Eagles, Playoff Momentum, and Aaron Rodgers as a “Cast Off”?

• Eagles Playoff Strategy (30:45 -- 32:01)
  • Should the Eagles rest stars if they clinch, or hunt for momentum? Cowherd: Philly's problems (broken offense, not just injuries) won’t be solved by rest.
    • "Philly is what they are. Stacked roster, led by their defense, can't run the ball ... it's a broken offense between head coach and OC." (31:15)
• Aaron Rodgers & 'Cast Off' Label (32:03 -- 34:32)
  • Rodgers discusses the Steelers' roster, mentioning “castoffs,” but denies the label for himself.
    • Reporter: "Do you consider yourself one of those cast offs too?"
      Rodgers: "No, I'm not a cast off." (32:52)
  • Cowherd logic: Rodgers chose Pittsburgh; a "cast off" has no market, but the Steelers waited for him. "You have a cool resume, you have great merch, you've got memories ... you're out of the running for titles." (43:22)

7. Golden State Warriors: From Winning to “Circumstances Franchise”

• Team Building & Steph Curry’s Shadow (40:46 -- 44:58)
  • Owner Joe Lacob's frustration leaks via email; Kerr and Cowherd discuss the team.
    • "The Warriors have transitioned from 'whatever it takes to win' to a circumstances franchise. Steph can't be traded and anybody you acquire has to be able to play in Steph's offense." (42:55)
  • Warriors’ focus on keeping Curry has limited their optionality, leading to aging roster and benching of young assets like Jonathan Kuminga.
  • "The key to the NBA is versatility and optionality. The Warriors' word is singularity. All about Steph." (44:33)

8. NFL Coaching Jobs: Myth vs. Reality

• Is “NFL job > College job” Outdated? (44:58 -- 49:34)
  • Cowherd challenges the idea that any NFL job is better than top college jobs.
    • "There are very, very few great job openings ... You don't think Ohio State or Texas are better gigs where I can control my personnel, don't have a crazy owner?" (46:44)
  • Most NFL jobs are unstable, dysfunctional, and cyclical; only a handful are actually “great.”
  • Coaching discussion centers on Kevin Stefanski’s options if released from Cleveland.

9. Best Bets and Upsets to Watch

• Hosts’ Picks and Insights (49:34 -- 50:27)
  • Cowherd and co-hosts review weekly NFL betting lines and possible upsets.
    • "Let me give you an upset, potentially. Denver off a wildly important win ... Keep your eye on the Jags upsetting the Denver Broncos." (50:01)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "People that complain a lot, don't create a lot." — Colin Cowherd (04:43)
• "You can't love Caleb and not love Bo Nix." — Colin Cowherd (07:37)
• "I was mocked yesterday saying Bo Nix reminds me of a young right-handed Steve Young." — Colin Cowherd (08:35)
• "As long as your production is high, I don't have a problem with picks." (19:43)
• "Small quarterbacks fall off a cliff physically." — Colin Cowherd (28:03)
• "The key to the NBA is versatility and optionality. The Warriors' word is singularity." (44:33)
• "There are very, very few great job openings [in the NFL] ... you don't think Ohio State or Texas are better gigs?" (46:44)

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Segment | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:42 | NBA Cup innovation, Knicks' win, optimism in sports | | 07:09 | Jalen Brunson on NBA Cup win experience | | 07:37 | Cowherd compares Caleb Williams and Bo Nix | | 10:55 | Caleb Williams' comments on upcoming Packers game | | 11:23 | Super Bowl “bubble” discussion and playoff analysis | | 19:40 | Interceptions, aggressive QB play, and rethinking risk | | 24:43 | Miami Dolphins’ “intelligent tank” with new QB Quinn Ewers | | 28:03 | Physical decline of small QBs (Tua, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray) | | 30:45 | Eagles playoff plans and Jalen Hurts soundbite | | 32:03 | Aaron Rodgers on “cast off” label, Cowherd’s rebuttal | | 40:46 | Warriors owner/franchise philosophy with Curry | | 44:58 | NFL coaching jobs vs. top college jobs — what's the better gig? | | 49:34 | NFL best bets, upsets, and predictions for the week |

Summary for New Listeners

This episode dives into timely debates on sports innovation, the evolving quarterback landscape in the NFL, and the pitfalls of clinging to old models—be it in football coaching or NBA roster-building. Cowherd champions optimism, innovation, and risk-taking—whether in league offices or under center on the field. The show is a blend of hard takes, stats, and locker-room insight, with plenty of memorable moments and thought-provoking sportsworld criticism.

If you want a one-stop listen for current NBA and NFL storylines—with contrarian takes and signature Colin Cowherd riffs—this is a strong episode to catch.