← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
THE HERD - Hour 1 - Looking at the NFL Draft, Harbaugh is the king of NY, Dusty May
00:41:14
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Colin Cowherd
This is an iHeart podcast.
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Colin Cowherd
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Dusty May
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Colin Cowherd
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Dusty May
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Colin Cowherd
more@applecard.com thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports radio at noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd@foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. It is a Wednesday. Welcome in. We are live. It's the Herd. Wherever you may be, however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. It is great to be here. I found out today that in the whole Fox Sports Radio division, my guy, Ryan Martin back in la, myself, all top of the food chain for our brackets. So middelkopf, I know everybody, you're a football guy, but boy, some of this is gonna seep over you by next year at this time, you're gonna be winning your March Madness bracket. Got a lot of brainiacs here on the staff with hoops.
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John Middlekoff
Mine did not go well. I had St. John's making a run and Patino didn't make it far.
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Colin Cowherd
Well, okay. One hour from now, Dane Brugler comes on the show he released today. It's called the Beast at the Athletic. In a highly comprehensive look at the NFL draft, which as of tomorrow is two weeks away. And I think the most interesting discussion is the edge rushers. It's a very good edge rusher draft and there are three in particular. Arvell Reese, Ohio State is the high ceiling guy, but doesn't yet have a position. And then there's David Bailey, who's the safe pick. He's a plug and play guy. That's my guy. And then Reuben Bain could be better than all of them. You know, they worry about his measurables. I don't. I think he's going to be a great NFL player. But it's. If I was the jets, this is the position and this is the pick. The number two pick. This is the position and pick. That's fascinating. If I was the jets ownership or general manager, I would pick David Bailey because I don't think Aaron Glenn knows what he's doing and I think he's going to be gone either mid season or next season and people will say, well, you can't go with the safe pick at number two. Well, I invest in real estate and stocks. Many of you invest in bitcoin. Sometimes I like just being comfortable. Okay. Edge rushers, and I love them, do not win Super Bowls. Max Crosby, Miles Garrett, T.J. watt. I think their playoff record is 1 and 6. You can look it up, but I'm committed to memory on that. I think it's one in six. You got to get three things right in this league to win Super Bowls. Head coach, quarterback, and an above average left tackle. If those are all really, really good, you can win Super Bowls without a great edge rusher. It's nice to have a nice situational pass rush, but how many great pass rushers did Belichick and Brady have? I mean, top of the food chain, Miles Garrett. No, they just got pressure situationally on the opposing quarterbacks. What the jets can't do with number two is have another bust or somebody they can't figure out because they already had two of those with Zach Wilson and Makai Becton. And Makai Becton is really instructive. He was the tackle that had some weight issues, but everybody said, oh, my God, he is. His ceiling is 100 stories high. He's mostly a bust bounce around the league guy. You know who was picked two picks after him. Just another boring, strong Iowa guy, Tristan Wirfs. John remembers that he was a right tackle. He was viewed only as a right tackle. You know, he was a strong guy. But Becton, Becton, to have luggage, will travel. Tristan Wurfs is a monster. Just another great Iowa NFL player. So here's the thing. If you have the head coach and quarterback, right, and the jets don't, but I think it's very possible in one year from today, they will. What you want to do is have really good football players. And the jets need about seven to eight really good football players. What they. What they don't need is a guy that was great at the combine is blows you away on YouTube, but he doesn't have a position. Now it's the jets, so who knows what they'll do? But I go back to bitcoin bros, right? Like, why don't you get stable before you try to get rich? The average American millionaire gets there at 61. Even at 51, that's remarkable. Most people are millionaires. The jets are always over swinging. The Browns are always over swinging. Just go get a really good football player. This idea that you can't hit doubles in life. Why not? I mean, again, there are times to be super aggressive, and then there are times like when you're a bad football operation, dude hit a bunch of doubles off the wall. Daniel Jeremiah used to work for the Ravens, and that was kind of the Ravens theory that you can win a lot of games without hitting a ton of home runs in the draft. Here's Daniel.
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John Middlekoff
We'll live with doubles off the wall all day long. We don't need to take a wild swing. We can't afford to miss in the first round. So with the Bailey Reese debate, which I think is a fascinating one, I think for 26, for sure, no question it's Bailey. And that's How I have them stacked up. But if you're the jets and everything's kind of pointing towards 27 where they have those three first round picks and if they want to take a swing on somebody that does have more ceiling, more upside, and they're not really going to be a competitive team here in 26, I could see them getting to Reese as their pick. For me personally, I would take Bailey.
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Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I would take Bailey. By the way, my, my staff updated me. Garrett Crosby and T.J. watt are 1 and 8 in the playoffs. You know who's, who's not 1 and 8 in the playoffs? Teams with great O lines like, like this idea that you can't play it safe in the draft. If you're getting to a position that's an important position, but it's not coach, it's not quarterback, it's not left tackle in this day and age, it's not an elite weapon, it's not an interior defensive lineman where there are just not many body types like that. I would go David Bailey first. Now, now Arvell Reese at number four with Robert Sala. Oh, I like that because Robert Sala took smoke and mirrors Bondo and band aids and peanut brittle last year in San Francisco and had very good defense. I trust Robert Sala to take an Arvell Reese I do not trust. Currently the New York Jets. I saw this story speaking in New York. Dexter Lawrence, good defensive lineman for the Giants, wants a new contract. Made it public. And the headline in this story is the Dexter Lawrence situation becomes the first test of the Joe Shane, John Harbaugh relationship. You could just put Harbaugh's name in that headline and not Joe Shane. The relationship is John Harbaugh calls the shots. Let me simplify it. Head coaches make between nine and $15 million a year. GMs make between two and four. The owner listens to the GM. Sean Payton wanted wide receiver Jalen Waddle. He got him. Spent a lot of money on him. GM probably pushed back. Sean wanted him, they got him. The Giants. Historically, this has always been the book on the New York Giants. And the Morris is that it's the head coach, top of the food chain. And then it goes. The. The construct of it is that then the coach is down the list. The head coach ran it. But remember Harbaugh, the Jets were such a mess. Tennessee wanted John Harbaugh and they were going to give him a lot of power, but he wanted the Giants and he said, well then I want to get power. So John Harbaugh took the Giants job. And it's kind of understood in the building that Joe Shane is a highly compensated, very powerful scout. And Harbaugh is running the show as good as Les Snead is in Los Angeles. And he's exceptional. Sean McVay, in the big moments, calls the shots. There are very few powerful GMs in this league. John Snyder in Seattle's got a lot of juice and momentum. Howie Roseman, probably the most powerful. Brett Veach, all the, all the trophies. But. But the Cleveland owner wanted Shador Sanders drafted. They drafted him. I mean, Liam Cohen had never been a coach, high school, college, anywhere, ever. And, and Liam Cohen said he was a hot coaching prospect. Never been a coach, head coach. And he goes, okay, I'll go to Jacksonville. You got to fire the gm. They fire the gm. That's the way the game works. So I think, I think Joe Douglas got housed with the Jets. I actually, I didn't like the Zach Wilson pick at all or Makai Beckton, but I thought he had a lot of good picks. Do you think he wanted to fire Robert Sala in, like, Week five? Of course not. He was overridden. The Minnesota Vikings today do not have a general manager. You know who's going to run the draft? The coach, Kevin o'. Connell. So John Harbaugh. The relationship is this. John's the boss and Joe nods his head. And if John wants something, Joe, John gets it. That doesn't mean they can't, like, discuss it doesn't mean Joe Shane isn't capable with his staff of doing some really smart things. But it's John's organization, and that's the only way he was going to take that job because Tennessee was interested and was going to give him all sorts of power. And this is where I'll defend the NFL coaches. I. I think there's an order to things. But if college head coaches, if Kurt Signetti can run all his personnel, what the NFL guys are saying is college guys are doing it. I've been in the league 15 years. I want some say on this stuff. And in a lot of instances, McVeigh has a very good eye for talent. Sean Payton has a good eye for talent. I would rather have a GM make. I would rather it go in order, ideally. But that's not what's happening with the New York Giants, and that's not what's happening right now in the NFL. I. There are times, have you noticed, with Denver, and I think their GMs capable, more than capable. Smart guy. Everybody's. Every time you say they reached on a guy. It's always a skill player in Denver. Harvey shouldn't go second round. Shawn wanted him. Jalen Waddle. That's a lot. Sean wanted him. That's the way it works in Denver. So here was John Harbaugh last week on the Dexter Lawrence trade request out of New York, speaking for the Giants. We want Dexter here, and I believe Dexter wants to be here. You know, that's. That's a good. That's a good formula, but there's business involved. It's a business proposition. We know it's pro football.
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John Middlekoff
These things happen every year pretty much on every team.
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Colin Cowherd
So not surprised by it. Saw it coming a few weeks back, probably, and good conversations with Dexter's agent, Joel Siegel, and understood what they were thinking, and this is where we're at, so we'll just try to work through it. And they put John Harbaugh on the mic for that. John Harbaugh on the zoom call for that. John Harbaugh to speak for the Giants on that. That's the relationship, you know, I had to defend. It's unbelievable. Yesterday, I had to fight off UConn fans about, you know, the officials really handed Michigan a national championship. So I went last night, and I just started youtubing and looking up the Michigan UConn game. I got to six fouls on UConn that weren't called. One of them is right before half when the Michigan guy gets knocked over, heaves it toward the basket. And they didn't call it. Now, I wasn't deeply bothered by it. I said, going into the game, guys, whoever loses is going to blame the officials. The officials are going to let a lot of stuff go. So whoever is stronger and bigger has the advantage. And of the two teams, usually it's UConn against Michigan. It was Michigan. Dusty May is stopping by today. The Michigan coach also, you know, there's a bunch of interesting stuff today. Again, Dane Bugler. Tomorrow top or today? Top of the hour, 45 minutes. Tomorrow, I'm going to give you my probably final mock draft. Based on what I'm hearing, what I'm guessing, what I'm thinking and who I would pick, David Bailey would be my number two pick. But it's interesting. You know, the NBA draft's going to be the best draft in the NBA. And I'm. I'm not a historian on drafts in the NBA. I think it's the best NBA draft. I remember. I'll leave it at that. I remember. I think there's like eight really good players like that could be. I mean that could literally be All Stars, eight guys and it wouldn't take that long. But the one player and you're starting to hear people chip away at him. I actually think in the new NBA, not the old one, the new one, the things that people like about him really work and somebody's going to steal him at about the 11th, 12th or 13th pick or thereabouts. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Fox Sports Radio is taking over YouTube and you can be a part of it. Just go to YouTube and search Fox Sports Radio. Hit that subscribe button and smash that notification bell and catch all the videos from your favorite shows. Two pros and a cup of Joe, Dan Patrick, Colin Cowherd, Stu Gotz and company Live, Covino and Rich, the Odd Couple with Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington, the Jason Smith show with Mike Harmon and the Ben Ma Show. Fox sports radio on YouTube. Subscribe, hit that thumbs up icon and comment away.
- [16:29]
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Dusty May
I don't want to miss the lineup.
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Colin Cowherd
I'm going to ask that man for directions.
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Hi there.
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John Middlekoff
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Colin Cowherd
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Colin Cowherd
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Colin Cowherd
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Colin Cowherd
Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?
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Oh, no.
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John Middlekoff
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Colin Cowherd
We're married.
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Dusty May
Me to a human, him to a bird.
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Colin Cowherd
Yeah, the bird looks out of your league anyways.
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Colin Cowherd
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It's going to be an incredible NBA draft and I want to talk about this. Dusty May's coming on today. It's very interesting. Yaxel lend a board. So he's a fascinating player. People are concerned for a couple of things, but when I looked his strengths up, they said offensive versatility, defensive versatility and improved shooting. The big question is, well, he's not really explosive. And that's what's interesting. I think in the old NBA that mattered a lot more. But the best player in the NBA easily right now is Jokic. Would you describe him as explosive? Luca and sga? SGA is more explosive than he gets Credit for. I wouldn't term him explosive. Um, you know who else has never been called explosive? Steph Curry. Here's explosive guys, Ja Morant and Zion Zach Levine who just got the bag. Stevie Francis, John Wall, Derrick Rose, they all aged really quickly. That's what you get with explosive guy is that when I look at what the NBA is now, there's two, three or four things that jump out to me. Number one is the game is really fast. I need really good decision makers, high IQ decision makers. Games go on warp speed. But what it really is now is a skill shooting scheme. League that's what it is, skill shooting scheme. I'll give you an example. Aaron Gordon was in Orlando. He was an athletic freak and he jumped his way right out of Orlando. They traded him when he became a better passer and shooter and a more refined offensive player. Aaron Gordon now is essential to Denver. He got smarter, he became a better shooter, he refined his skills. Now Aaron Gordon is a must have player, a great NBA player in Orlando. Man, look at those hops. And there's nothing wrong with that. But Vince Carter, no rings, never NBA all first team is the definition of explosive. And I love Vince. Nice guy, great player, no first team, all NBA. Blake, by the way, zero all star games after 30 athletic guys age quick. Blake Griffin, five of his six all star teams. 25 years and younger again. Once he started shooting, I started really liking Blake Griffin. So you know, when I look at Jackson and the board, my take is 6, 9, 2, 40, really bright, runs the floor. One of those scheme fit everywhere. Guys. I, again, I'm not saying he's top seven pick. I have a hard time believing he has any bust in him. I, I think he's a big dude who runs the floor and can hit a three. That, that's the new NBA. It's amazing when you look at the most explosive guys in league history, obviously Jordan is one of them. He almost comes across as an outlier. A lot of the explosive guys, they don't end up with rings. They win slam dunk contests. They're our favorite players. But they, they, they. And again MJ and Kobe. Absolutely. I'm not saying I'm, I'm not looking for some twitch, you know, or some length, but I, I'd have a hard time. I remember when Zach Edie came into the league. Well, you know, he doesn't move well enough. And I'm like, he was unstoppable in college. He's a smart kid. I think it's, I think he's Going to be able to play in the NBA and I think I can't see Axel not working. I just can't see it. We'll ask Dusty May in 15, 20 minutes. John Middelkoff with the news. No, no, no. Heard on the news. This is the Herdline news.
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John Middlekoff
Well, we know, you know, you talked about GMs earlier. One guy we know who is in charge and that's Jerry Jones and he likes to stir some things up because he talks a lot. And speaking at the league meetings, Jerry said he won't shy away from making some moves on draft day.
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Colin Cowherd
I've looked at that mirror a lot about how to go up and down and trade and do those kinds of things and absolutely will entertain improving or an end draft Read on. What gives us a better chance to get another player? Nothing. No amount of skill, no amount of knowledge can beat having a lot of draft capital, having a lot of picks that that'll win. Win most of the time. Yeah. Dolphins have a lot of picks. I still contend the Dolphins have the most fascinating draft with four third round picks. And after Malik Willis and their top running back, maybe Chop Robinson, they got a lot of holes. You could do anything you could. They could literally do anything they wanted to. And I would approve of it in the first seven picks.
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John Middlekoff
I would say the difference, the Cowboys are actually closer to the Chiefs because we all think the Dolphins aren't going to be good. We think the jets aren't going to be good. The Browns, the teams with multiple picks. We think the Chiefs, if Mahomes is healthy, could turn around relatively quick and be in the playoffs.
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Colin Cowherd
Right.
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John Middlekoff
The Cowboys to me at 12 and 20, just stick and pick. They draft really well. I mean Colin, look at Tyler Booker, Tyler Smith, Micah Parsons, CD Lamp. They've hit going back to Zach Martin. They have hit on a lot of first round picks, let alone the mid rounds. One thing, Jerry, he empowers the group around him. So Jerry's banging out the film. But they do pick well. They could end up with Caleb Downs and a good corner, a good pass rusher and a good corner, their defense because we know their offense is good. Colin.
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Colin Cowherd
Well, you know what's really interesting, John, about Caleb Downs, I think he's really good. People like Caleb Downs. I was talking to somebody a couple nights ago about this because this was a topic on the show and he goes, people like Caleb. Down he goes. But the Chiefs absolutely need the right tackle.
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John Middlekoff
Yeah.
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Colin Cowherd
And you know he goes, people just have needs. He goes, it's not an anti Caleb Downs. Draft it is a we can get a safety in the second, third round. There's also an Oregon safety mid round, late round. It's like Caleb Downs is going to fall 10, 11, 12, 13. Potentially. He goes, it's not an anti Caleb but there are two or three teams in this league. The Giants are one of them. They need another weapon. They need a right tackle. The Chiefs need a right tackle. The Saints and the Washington Commanders O lines could use improvement. He goes sometimes, you know, if you may like a player a little more but if a guy grades just an inch behind him and you have a massive hole at tackle, tackle simply more important and you've got to fill that or your young quarterback gets beat up.
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John Middlekoff
You just better be careful that tackle better beat, better be a 10 year starter. If Caleb Downs goes on to be an Ed Reed type player.
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Colin Cowherd
Right, right.
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John Middlekoff
And I actually have a lot of, I kind of if this draft goes well for the Cowboys, I think they could be pretty competitive. Colin, because their defensive line is revamped.
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Colin Cowherd
Yep. Agree.
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John Middlekoff
New defensive coordinator. We know their offense is good. I, I know you like lists and I know you like NFL coaches. NBC Sports put out their head coaching rankings headed into the season and the Wonder boy, Sean McVeigh is currently at 1 and Andy Reid is at 2 and your guy Ben Johnson is all the way at 13. Colin, if, if we're doing long term resumes, which clearly they are on this, to me, Andy's kind of cemented at one for a couple of years. I mean he went to, he went to six super bowl, he won, you know, three or four. And I mean this guy, I, I don't know, I have a hard time moving Andy to two just off one bad season.
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Colin Cowherd
Well, I do think as you age, I think Sean, his energy is so good that I don't think Andy can duplicate the energy. I'm looking at the list. I know their resumes aren't as thick but if you're telling me Ben Johnson and Liam Cohen are the 13th and 14th best coaches and I watched what they did in year one, this is the greatest group of coaches in league history because Ben Johnson is outstanding. It's like when McVay went to the Rams first year. They go from unwatchable to like double digit wins. You're like, is McBay a top four or five coach? I think Ben Johnson and Liam Cohen today are top 10 coaches. I think they're unbelievable coaches.
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John Middlekoff
If you did, you know, you kind of got to, there's two tiers, right. There's kind of the older group, the guys in their 60s, Andy, the Harbaugh Bros. You would have Sean Payton, you know, if you factored in age, the younger guys that maybe you thought you could get for 20 years. I think it's pretty clear in some order. McVeigh, Kyle McDonald, Ben Johnson. I, I think Liam Cohen, I mean, the Jags, I think they drafted in the top five for basically a decade straight. That's why it actually was an interesting job. They, they had some talent on the job, you know, on the roster.
- [28:17]
Colin Cowherd
I think Cohen is. Last year was it's baby step league. You're not going to walk into the playoffs and beat Buffalo, even if the game's in Jacksonville. I love Trevor Lawrence. I was going to sell all my stock. And then last year I'm like, look what a good coach can do. I mean, go to Caleb last year and Caleb first year, it was like a different player. That's what a great coach can do.
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John Middlekoff
I think one guy on this list is a little underrated because he's not a huge personality. He's a little understated, but I don't know. He played in the league for a while as d'. Amico.
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Colin Cowherd
Oh.
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John Middlekoff
I mean, his defense, I mean, his defense looks like the mid-2000s Ravens.
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Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I, if you told. Let me. If I ask you this, every GM in the league, privately, Dan Campbell or Ben Johnson, who do you think they take?
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John Middlekoff
I think every Lions fan would make that trade right now, don't you think?
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Colin Cowherd
I like, I like Campbell.
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John Middlekoff
Same.
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Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
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Dusty May
Okay.
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John Middlekoff
To the NBA, we're Jason Tatum and the Celtics. They got a great win over the Hornets. Next up for Boston is a matchup with the Knicks. Colin. And Tatum is prepping a return to MSG for the first time since that Achilles tear. Here's what Tatum had to say on the matchup.
- [29:24]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I thought about it. You know, I'm not like thrilled to go back and play there. You know, last time I played there, obviously it was a traumatic, you know, experience for me. Obviously I knew at some point I would have to, you know, get over that hurdle and, you know, play there again. I decided to come back and play. So just another game on the schedule. Yeah. Well, it is.
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John Middlekoff
How did they, how did they go from. Once he tours Achilles, Everyone thought they were going to be like the Sacramento Kings this year. And now there's. Now it feels like, I mean, are you betting against them to win the East? It feels like Boston has a pretty good shot. Well, they're just in the NBA Finals.
- [30:03]
Colin Cowherd
Brad Stevens is Smart. So they, you know, Horford and Port Porzingis were really. I really like those guys. And unlike Milwaukee, they get ahead of stuff. Like they could. They could have. And they said, let's go younger in our front line. They just do a really good job on timing. They let Marcus Smart go at the perfect time. And I mean, Horford, they could have let go, but they kept him. Poor Zingus. A lot of this league is upstairs. I mean, I love okc a lot of that. Sam Presti, nothing against the coach. I think Boston is just when you have that much intelligence, I mean, they go with Missoula coach. What was going to lead you to believe he would get this good this fast? He was a little over his skis. Like all of us, first year in any job, we're all a little over our skis. But Missoula has become a very good coach. And it's much like the similar culture. I just look at the. If the Red Sox were as well run as the Patriots and the Celtics, people moving much happier in Fenway. I think Boston's smart.
- [31:04]
John Middlekoff
Well, because you talked about the Red Sox that, you know, in high school and in college, Theo turned them into an absolute power. It does feel like the Red Sox now, you know, the Patriots had a good season. We'll see if they can maintain it. Are really now from. From Danny, the transition to Brad Stevens. Have to be a top 10 organization in all of sports right now, right?
- [31:24]
Colin Cowherd
Yep. John Middlekoff of the News. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the Herd lie news. So as many of you know, I regularly visit LA there next week, but I live now in Chicago. And when I came, when I came to Chicago, I told my wife, I said, let's, let's, you know, let's do stuff. And so we got Bull season tickets and Blackhawks and we go to the United Center a lot. And so I follow the Bulls. You know, when I'm in a town, I tend to follow the teams more closely because I see them on TV more. So the Bulls blew out their GM and they blew out their basketball operations, people. And they needed to. There was no plan. It was just, what are they doing? And they, they kept Billy Donovan, the coach, who I like a lot. And so Jerry Reinsdorf, the owner, said yesterday came out and he got a lot of pushback on this. He said, we're keeping Billy Donovan. If the GM doesn't understand how good he is, then we're not hiring him. And that got a lot of pushback. So there Is this belief in the NBA and pro sports that there has to be an order to everything. And you hire the general manager, he hires the coach, he hires the staff. But I would remind people that when the Lakers dominated this league, you had Pat Riley, Jerry west and Phil Jackson often at odds. I don't know any of them truly get along. And they all had egos and, and none remained Lakers for life. And it was, you know, there was, Everybody was kind of. It was a. It was a lot of grabbing for headlines. And I, you know, I know each of them. No, I don't know. Phil met Riley, talked to Jerry west multiple times. It worked because they were all great at their job. Phil Riley and West great at their job. Billy Donovan, I know everybody wants to fire everybody. Billy Donovan took Florida at the time was a football school and built the closest thing we have now to UConn, a dominant, suffocating defensive dynasty. He then goes to Oklahoma city and won 60 plus percent of his games, first year, got to the Western Conference finals in Oklahoma City. And his troubles, you know, when KD leaves you, that can create a little hole in your offense every time. He's had good players and he has a say in choosing them, he wins a lot quickly. And by the way, what Jerry Reinsdorf did in his press conference is the opposite. He pivoted because he favored the gm, Jerry Krause over Phil Jackson and Michael Jordan. And that did not work out. So what he's saying is, no, I got the coach and maybe one of my, after this draft and a couple of the young players. I like some players and I like the coach, and the coach is going to get a say. And I know there's supposed to be an order to everything, I get that. But I'm always back to, like, if you took a company over, let's say you bought a small company and you interviewed. It was a small company, 12 people, and you didn't love the CEO, so you can the CEO, but you love two of the vice presidents. Do I gotta flush them out? What if you're like, yeah, the CEO was the problem, the GM was the problem. The vice president of marketing, the vice president of distribution are great, but in the end, they were vice presidents. They didn't run basketball ops or gm. So I think Billy Donovan was trapped. I told you a couple days ago, I had a theory on what happened. Carolina offered Billy Donovan the job, and then Billy Donovan told the Bulls is, listen, we got to make some changes upstairs or I'm out of here. And Jerry Reinsdorf who loves Donovan, said, okay and tilted the United center on its side and flushed those guys out. That's my working theory right now, is that he didn't want to lose Don. And Don's like, you know, I don't think Donovan's a power hungry guy, but I think he's a super smart guy. And I just don't think there's the. The idea that if you just think about this, structurally, foundationally, for every company in the country, why do I have to go always in order? What if I love the number 2, 3, and 4 guy at a company and didn't like, didn't like the CEO? I'll just go hire a new CEO and keep the people under him. A lot of the decisions made every time Billy Donovan either selects the players, has say or builds something, he wins in Chicago, I don't think he had the leverage. You know, I think he was a good employee. You know, we'll do this, we'll do that. But there were just too many mistakes in Chicago upstairs. I don't think Donovan's the problem here was Michael Reinsdorf, Jerry's son. He's the one that controls the Bulls on Billy Donovan's future. And if Billy wants to be our coach and someone's not interested in that, then they're probably not the right candidate for us. If he came to me and said, hey, I may want to do a Brad Stevens situation, I would sit down and listen to Billy. I don't think that's where his head's at. Right. Right. But no. So I don't think, I don't think Billy cares about titles. Billy cares about, you know, being a
- [36:39]
Dusty May
head coach, and he cares about the players and cares about the organization.
- [36:43]
Colin Cowherd
That's what I've heard for years on Billy Donovan. He's not a power grab guy. That's not it. He wants to be surrounded by smart people. You give him good players, he'll develop them, make them better players. That's my take. Dusty May. Boy, you talk about good coach. National championship for Michigan, Dane Brugler. Top of the hour. Good show. Coming up, the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. May. Now the coach of Michigan national champs is joining us, and we got a couple of interesting topics. So I said on the air the day before the title, I said, whoever loses is going to blame the officials. It's going to, because UConn can only beat you one way. They're going to have to hit jumpers and make it ugly. I Want you to take. And right before half, one of your guys gets kind of banged into and they don't call it a foul. And I'm like, well, they're kind of being consistent because there's a lot of hammering here. How did you look at the game? I'm sure you knew going into it it was going to be physical. Your takeaway and the officiating in the game.
- [37:46]
Dusty May
Yeah. The best team, Colin, the best teams in college basketball, they know how to foul legally, meaning they know how to get away with it. And even our guys, you know, I'm not playing higher ground here. They just do such a good job of being physical while showing their hands. It's kind of like the old Bo Ryan Wisconsin defenses. And so that. That's exhausting. It's. It's tough to shoot and finish and score. So I think both teams were playing with great physicality, and I thought their game plan was an A plus for knocking us off with. With our. With our speed, athleticism and ability, score and transition. So kudos to those guys. Coach Hurley, I mean, there's a reason he's at the top of our sport. He's brilliant.
- [38:23]
Colin Cowherd
Hurley said the officiating crew is great. Do you share that?
- [38:28]
Dusty May
It was a great crew. Yeah. And those guys would communicate with you. They're fair. They would let you vent when you're frustrated. I thought they did a great job. And even if they came out on top, that game was won because we made just a few more plays than them.
- [38:44]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. So I got into this conversation. I said, in the old days, explosive NBA players, it felt like it was more of an explosive league in the Jordan era. And I said, the pacing now is so fast. It's about shooting and scheme and skill. And I want guys that make really quick decisions because the pacing of the NBA is ridiculous. It's 100 miles an hour. I need cognitive guys who can make quick, smart decisions. So when people look at Yaxel, Lenneborg people, I read the scouting report and they're like, well, he's okay. He's smart and can shoot, but, you know, he's not real explosive. And I'm like, I don't think of sga, Jokic and Luka as explosive. I like smart guys to get up the floor. Do you think he transitions to the NBA and if so, why?
- [39:31]
Dusty May
I do. Colin, I think you're ahead of your. Ahead of the game with that evaluation. The processing power is his strength. I don't know if I've ever been around someone that can learn things on the fly and be able to change his move or his body contortion based on something that he saw a month ago. And so that processing his passing ability, his ability to see the floor, I think those are all really unique now. And he's a different athlete where when you watch him, he doesn't seem like a plus athlete. And then you see him make these athletic plays where go underneath and dunk on three guys. And I just think he's, he's so untapped because he's so new to the game.
- [40:14]
Colin Cowherd
So Mark Fuse a friend that he was funny. He said, can you imagine being in the NFL? The season ends, the super bowl the next day, everybody's a free agent. He goes, that's what college basketball coaches feel like with this ridiculous portal. It is absurd. You got a couple of guys to replace. So are you basically on zoom calls for the next several days? I mean, you're right in the middle of it, right? Have you already landed anybody? What are you doing for the next three days?
- [40:43]
Dusty May
No, we actually just finished a zoom before I jumped on Colin. Literally. We finished the game the other night. We get back to the hotel at 2am There's a reception for friends and family and those that are associated with the program. And so we have a couple pops and some food. And I think I slept an hour and got up and did the whole morning show circuit. We flew back and as we landed, my wife looked at me and said, are you coming home? And I gave her the side eye. No, this, these next two weeks are, they are our Super Bowl. And if we have a, if we want to have a chance, a chance to play in Detroit 365 days from now, then, then we've got to hit these next two weeks and fill some holes.
- [41:26]
Colin Cowherd
So you. I said this the other day and this is not a criticism. I said, you know, you guys are telling me this is an all time great team. And I said, I saw a team with a Keem and Drexler not win a title. I saw a team with Chris Mullen, Mark Jackson, Bill Weddington and Walter Berry not win a title. I said, what? Michigan is a reminder of how great college basketball is. When guys stick around for a second, third and fourth year, you get grown men playing. I said, so is Michigan all time? I said, I don't know. But they, they remind me of an 80s and 90s team. You took a freshman, you took a couple of guys who were on the team before you got there that weren't great. A couple of transfers. The really the player for me, Adai Mara is the one I look at and I go, man, I never saw that coming. When did you realize with him? Because you know Lindenberg was already a good player. But when did you realize with Mara? You know what guys, this is going to be. He's going to be a really high end player. I just saw a tall Spaniard, you know, I didn't see it. Did you know? I mean, was it a week into practice? Was it mid season? When did you know?
- [42:34]
Dusty May
Wow.
- [42:35]
Colin Cowherd
With him and Yaxel and our size. This is different.
- [42:41]
Dusty May
Well, it wasn't when we played UCLA last year because Vlad golden had his way with a die and he didn't look very good. And then he had a couple games throughout the season and you watch these Big Ten teams and he had a couple of games throughout the season where he showed glimpses. So after the year was over, we went in and went back and like we did with Vlad and Danny, looked at all of his old footage and we saw him with Zaragoza and playing in the ACB and we saw him on the national team and his passing and footwork were elite. Now he didn't have the physicality. I don't know if you put him in the right schemes where there's cutting to the rim, there's floor spacing. He looked even better than if he was playing with non shooters. So we thought situationally he had a big, big upside. And the first exhibition early on in the year, he wasn't playing very well. So it just took him some time of us playing him through mistakes, us being frustrated with each other for a couple weeks and then he just gradually got better throughout the season. And he's such a beautiful person. That's the thing about our team. These are such great guys to be around. They all wanted to do this for each other, which is rare.
- [43:49]
Colin Cowherd
Minute and a half left. Big Ten is rolling. I would think it would be very easy to go to your boosters and say, guys, this ain't gonna last. This is the Big Ten. Like you guys are the power conference. Do you think this dominance continues?
- [44:05]
Dusty May
I think the Big Ten is positioned to do this type of thing every year. Now the thing with basketball, it's a one game series and you could have nine of the 10 best teams and not win a national championship as a conference. So it's incredibly difficult to do as we, as we've seen, you know, these, these teams for smaller conferences even be able to win it or, or Baylor from the Big 12, it's been spread out but yes, I think the Big Ten is going to be in position because of the care for athletics. When you look at how much sports and athletics mean on Big Ten campuses and the resources available, everyone in the Big Ten is, you know, the west coast schools, everyone has the ability to generate revenue for their players, significant revenue for their players. And so there's no reason why the Big Ten doesn't do what we've been able to do in football, in my opinion.
- [44:52]
Colin Cowherd
Colin, does breakfast taste different when you're a national champion? Is it a little different when you wake up?
- [44:59]
Dusty May
No, not at all. Because of the current climate, we can't even enjoy it because we're driven to do this again and we are process oriented. I'm not. I don't really want to do the parade and all the other stuff that comes with it. I want to recruit, get a roster for next year that we feel that we would love to work with every single day and have a chance to do this and then take some time to enjoy it when our players go home for the summer. And the one thing about winning, you get to do a lot of really cool things when time permits. So that's when I'll celebrate championship whenever we get to do some real cool experiences.
- [45:33]
Colin Cowherd
Dusty, great. I gotta be honest, I'm a good luck charm. I keep putting you on and you keep winning. Yeah, I won my bracket amongst my friends. So congrats to you and the Wolverines.
- [45:44]
Dusty May
Well, I appreciate that, Colin, Big fan of the show.
- [45:46]
Colin Cowherd
All right. Thank you. Yeah, it's. We're feeling pretty good here on Fox Sports Radio. Our staff that we just found out today, our staff sort of cleaned up FOX Sports Radio. We're kind of the envy. All our guys crushed in the brackets because we all took Michigan. That was the secret. Take Michigan. Greg Tuohy, Way to go, buddy. Back in la, he crushed as well. Martin, Way to go. All right, Dane Brugler, the Beast. Next.
- [46:21]
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