← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
THE HERD – HOUR 1 – Messi Cannot Be Stopped, USA Soccer Is Close To Greatness
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- [00:00]
Rachel Nichols
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:02]
Commercial Announcer
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- [01:04]
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- [01:36]
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- [02:52]
Commercial Announcer
Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd@foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast.
- [03:15]
Jason McIntyre
Hello and welcome to the Herd. It's me, Jason McIntyre, in for a special sick Colin Cowherd. He had his flu game yesterday, folks, and he's taken today off. He'll be back manana when the soccer resumes. It's a glorious Wednesday out here in Los Angeles. I'm joined by Rachel Nichols. We are both enjoying the World Cup. We are enjoying the NBA. Rachel, how's your summer going so far?
- [03:43]
Rachel Nichols
It's going well, Jace. I mean, you know, I'm trying to get over Monday night. I feel like I'm finally ready to move on, pick a new team. Are you going to advise me? Well, yeah, that's what you have to do, right? You have to be like, this is like March Madness. All right, My number one pick, you know, obviously Team usa, number one in my heart, didn't advance and so now I need a new team. Are you going to give me some options over the course of the show?
- [04:06]
Jason McIntyre
At the top of next hour, I'll break down the bracket and my team is winning it all, obviously. Listen, we got a loaded show. There's a big rumor right now, hot that the Lakers, Rachel, are chasing a former Golden State warrior. I think we're going to have a big show, but let's get started. Started with Leonel Messi, folks. I'm sure you guys, like I did yesterday, watched in amazement, jaw on the floor watching the greatest to ever do it, display all the grit that the USA didn't show on Monday. Messi carries Argentina on his back. From down 2 nil, they rally to stun Egypt. 3, 2. They're calling this the greatest comeback in World cup history because no team had ever rallied from down to this late in a game to win in regulation. And Messi did that with an assist and then a goal. And listen, I'm consuming all of the content, of course, Instagram, there's all these edits of Messi. You know, Messi gets sad, his PK is denied. Then he narrowly misses a free k free kick. And then Messi just puts the team on his back, goes, as they like to say, God mode, you know, and, and, and Argentina wins it. And then he's crying on the pitch after the game. Folks, I've watched this replay a billion times. And here's Derek Ray on the call to get fired up. Messi's goal to tie it.
- [05:26]
Sports Commentator
Lionel Messi deflection there on the way through. And can they line something up here, Argentina? Oh, it's gone in. It's two. Two. And who else? Lionel Messi, the savior for Argentina. A comeback when they needed it, engineered by the man regarded by so many as the greatest of them all from the depths of desp. Argentina celebrate.
- [05:54]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah, I mean, honestly, I. I'm obsessed with the World Cup. You guys know, soccer was my top sport growing up. I was a pretty good player. My family had some pretty good players back, back in the day. I'll just say that. And the World cup is something like we never see. That's what, every four years. It's incredible.
- [06:11]
Landon Donovan
And.
- [06:11]
Jason McIntyre
And Messi's kind of leading Argentina on this old man renaissance. I'm sure you guys have seen this in sports. Messi's 39 years old, okay? And he's carrying Argentina. He's one of the best players on the pitch at the World cup at 39, I was told for the longest time growing up, yep, sports are a young man's game. Yet here's Tom Brady at 44, winning a Super Bowl. Here's Matt Stafford at 38, winning the MVP last year. Here's LeBron at 41, shattering every NBA record that matters because he's still playing at such a high level. Folks, we've never seen this stuff before. I remember in 2022, it was December, Messi was 35. And Argentina plays that epic World cup final against France. And folks, Messi had two goals in that game. They win in penalty kicks. And at the end, they carry Messi off the field. They're throwing him in the air. He's got the World cup trophy. And we're saying, this is. This is John Elway times 10. Remember, Elway wins the super bowl and walks off into the sunset. He's done. And everybody thought Messi was. It's over. You. You go out like that with a World cup at 35, the last award he needed to cinch himself as the goat. And Here he is four years later at 39, doing otherworldly things. I'm personally, as a guy who's aging, hopefully gracefully, I. I love this old man renaissance. I mean, Messi is bending free kicks. He's still just such a sharp player at this age. He is starting this New thing that he's been doing for a while now where he just walks a lot to conserve energy. Walks and walks, and then in a moment, boom, he pops. Here's Brad Friedl talking about Messi and this. This God mode that he could go into and take over games.
- [07:56]
Brad Friedel
This guy, Lionel Messi, we talk about him all the time. I mean, being down 2 nil again, 78th minute, he blew by a guy at his age. I mean, he get. I asked Stat sports once. There they were. I was around them, and they were at Barcelona. I said, what's he got? I know he's great and the skill and all that. What's he got? And they said, gets up to full pace in about a step and a half to two steps. I mean, it's just. It's remarkable, this guy, and he's a leader and he's humble and he's a driven winner.
- [08:26]
Jason McIntyre
It's really incredible what he's doing. I'm sure you guys have heard the. The joke because forever there was this Cristiano Ronaldo versus Messi thing. Who's better? And there's a lot of Ronaldo fans. A handsome guy, chiseled abs like the ladies love him. And. And the joke was, Cristiano Ronaldo's the best soccer player ever. That's because Lionel Messi is not human. He's not from this earth. I mean, what we're seeing from this guy. Look at the stats on the screen, folks. Number one in goals at the World Cup. Expected goals, goal involvements. Shots. Shots on target. We've never seen anything like this. And a lot of people think Argentina is going to win it. You know, I built this gambling model. They think Argentina has value. Currently. I don't know that they're going to push through, but at the top of next hour, I will break down the brackets and give you my winner. Let's go. From Lionel Messi, the greatest to ever do it. And Argentina, the defending champs to Team usa, which fell flat on its face Monday, losing to Belgium 4 1. It's not embarrassing or bad that we lost to Belgium, guys. That's not the problem. The problem is how we lost. It was a gutless effort. I mean, we saw no grit, no heart. You know, you get punched in the mouth, you fall behind early, and you don't rally at all. Guys, it was embarrassing. It really hurts. And frankly, we look so good. Our starters did. In the three games. We gave up one goal to Paraguay. Australia, Bosnia, like, listen, Paraguay is nothing to scoff at. They showed well after we Kicked their butts, right? Knocked out Germany. We're kind of nip and tuck with France, even though, you know, France had that game in control. One nothing. And that's not bad. And where was our grit? Why didn't we see any of that? That's what really hurts. And you've got all these columnists and these talking heads parachuting into soccer, right? And they're doing their think pieces and their crisis management. Oh, my gosh. We're never gonna be on the level of the greats. And it's the same nonsense every four years. Well, if we could only get the best players in America to play soccer, the best athletes. Imagine if the NBA and NBA, it's the same dumb, lazy nonsense. I'm really sick of it. As a soccer guy myself, I think it's just lazy. And here's the reality. We watched a Mexico team, right? Mexico's been down bad. We've been better than Mexico for close to a decade now, okay? We watched Mexico fall behind 2 nothing to England. Jude Bellingham back to back goals like, oh, wow, it's over. Mexican fought like hell. They refused to die. They came back. That was a game until the end. They lose. 3, 2. Nobody in Mexico is disappointed that they lost, how they lost. Obviously you want to win the game, but they fought like hell. They were excellent. You know, there was grit there. We just watched Argentina yesterday, down to nothing. 78 minutes. Oh, my gosh, it's over. Heart of a friggin champion. Messi put the team on his back. Erling Holland, Norway against Brazil, 00. Oh, well, I don't know. Brazil's got so much talent. Holland just says, I'll take this. Thanks. Bang, bang, two goals, it's over. And that's really the thing I didn't see from the Americans that pissed me off. On Monday, you know, you fall behind one nothing. Our whole team seems rattled at the back. We didn't meet the moment, as they say in sports. You know, there was a bit of a distraction if you maybe heard about it in the 48 hours leading up. I don't know if that was a factor, but I mean, Tim Ream was victimized on four straight goals. You know, listen, I don't want to say I was right on Ream, but I told you guys for months leading up on this show at Tim Reen, that's a concern of mine. Then he shows well against Paraguay. I said, hey, Tim, Tim showed up. You know, he's solid against Bosnia. Well, you know, you step up in class against Belgium and you get worked. So here is Landon Donovan going after our star. I've been reluctant to go after Pulisic, yet here's Landon Donovan. And listen, this is critical. And this is the treatment we give American stars. And, you know, soccer's arrived in this country when Landon Donovan's dropping bombs like this on Pulisic.
- [12:28]
Landon Donovan
He is who he is at this point, right? And we want him to be more because we see the talent. I've been on here talking about seeing him in person against Bosnia, like, the way he moves and the way. But that was an easy game. He came out of a World cup knockout game at home with his leg still intact. Because I'm saying this to you, Tim, and you know it. Cause you played with me, you would have had to drag me off the field, and I would have punched the doctor in the face and said, you're not taking me off the field. Put whatever you need to put in me, and I'm staying on the field.
- [13:05]
Jason McIntyre
He's not wrong, guys. He's not. And listen, I'm not here to bash Pulisic, but the reality is, when you're in every commercial during the World cup, alongside Messi and all the greats, you got to deliver and show up. And I think Stu Holden had the stat. My guy, Stu Holden, first five touches. Pulisic had three turnovers. He did not have it. And again to go back to England. Yeah. Jude Bellingham said, I got this, boys. Two goals. He was extraordinary. Tracking back on defense. He cries after the match like, I get it. Okay, Jason, you're being too harsh. Pulisic is not Jude Bellingham, guys. And that comes to this talent question. So Sportico, which is a really good, respected sports business outlet, they came out with this thing, hey, the US doesn't have elite talent to hang. And I see this headline, I'm like, that's crap. First of all, you know, there's what, 16 teams listed here? We're right there in the top 16 in the world. That's obvious. Okay? And I won't point out that Brazil and Portugal are near the top of that list. And they haven't done jack squat in the World cup in the last, like, five cycles. So I don't want to. Four cycles, so I don't want to hear it. Okay? We have the talent. And again, to just look at the. The list of leagues around the world. You know, the US had from the Belgium match, three starters in the epl. We got two guys in the top league in Italy, top league in Germany, Netherlands. We Got dudes now. It doesn't help that of the three MLS players, one of them was Freeze, who had probably the most embarrassing goal given up in this World Cup. I don't know what the hell he was doing. Harvard guy, not a smart move there, buddy. And then Tim Ream, who I'm not going to pile on, he's 38 years old. But those are two MLS guys, and they got exposed against Belgium. But to say we don't have talent. Belgium has five starters in the epl. Where they've got us is depth. They're coming off the bench with studs. They didn't even play Kevin De Bruyne. If you know anything about soccer, that guy over the last 15 years have been one of the greatest players in the world. They didn't even use him against us. So, like, they've got the depth. We just don't have that yet. But Landon Donovan will back me up here. Stu Holden Williams. We have more talent on the US Team now than we've ever had. We've got players all around the globe in top leagues. The talent is there. Sometimes you blame the players, sometimes you blame the coach. I'm blaming it on grit and heart again. I watched that match. The first minute, there was a ball that kind of was spinning out, and Dest was screening their offensive player, screening to let it go out. The ball goes out, and it's Belgium's ball in the first minute. And that was when you could tell is our head in the game. What the hell is that? How is nobody communicating? Hey, that's our ball. Play it up field. From that moment, it was like, oh, geez. Freese had to make a great save, and we just spiraled. We got punched in the mouth, and there was no response. The first time we trailed in the World cup was against Belgium, and we responded so poorly that you kind of got to blame the players. I think the talent is there. The issue was we just didn't show up in the moment. That counts. But the good news is there's Copa America, there's Gold Cup. We will be back, I think, with a vengeance, in 2030. All right, we got a monster show ahead. Gonna do a little Lakers talk. I think people are way down on the Lakers. Two teams better than in the West. I can't find a third. There's some Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum. Murky stuff. Somebody in the morning meeting said, is this the new Westbrook Durant? I was like, oh, fire takes. So I got a great show coming up here on the Hurt. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app hey, this is Jason McIntyre. Join me every weekday morning on my podcast Straight fire with Jason McIntyre. This isn't your typical sports pod, pushing the same same tired narratives down your throat every day. Straight Fire gives you honest opinions on all the biggest sports headlines, accurate stats to help you win big at the Sportsbook and all the best guests. Do yourself a favor and listen to Straight fire with Jason McIntyre on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [17:16]
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- [18:32]
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- [19:35]
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- [20:57]
Jason McIntyre
talk about the Lakers for a minute. Yes, it's been a summer of soccer. We haven't done a lot of Laker talk, but there was a report today that the Lakers are heavily pursuing free agent Jonathan Kaminga. And I know there's some eye rolling in the audience right now. I'm aware of that, guys. I want to remind you guys, Jonathan Kaminga is a free agent, though warriors gave up on him. He goes to the Hawks. He had a pretty damn good run. Look at how explosive and bouncy he is. Just look at Jonathan coming a sword to dunk over Mitchell Robinson. This guy's exactly what you'd want in a three and D win. Now he's still a young guy. I think he has this Jalen Brownitis where he thinks he wants to go somewhere and be the man and that's not happening. But apparently according to this report, and we'll have a Laker guest on here shortly to talk about it, but JJ Redick got on the phone trying to talk to Kaminga. Hey, it sounds like they're selling him on a starting role right now. The small forward spot is kind of sort of open. Sorry. It ain't gonna be Jake Laravia. I'm extremely bullish on the Lakers. Now here's the thing. They're getting beat up because they overpaid for Walker Kessler. Was it an overpay? Yes, period. That being said, did you look at the center market, guys? I know Collins hot for Nick Claxton, but let's, let's settle down on Nick Claxton, okay? Walker Kessler played five games last year, so that's not great. He was hurt. He's had a bit of an injury bug. We need to keep him healthy. Yes, there is injury concerns with the Lakers. Can Austin Reeves stay healthy, can Lucas stay healthy, blah, blah, blah. Yes, that's all true. I don't know what you want to do. It's weird. Lukas played more games than Giannis in the last four years, yet Luka's the one always unhealthy. Where's the Giannis criticism in Miami? Is he going to be healthy? I don't hear that. It's because it's selective outrage and it's the Lakers. Anyway, here's the truth on Walker Kessler. What the Lakers did get. He's going to be about the 8 or 9th highest paid center in the league. I'm not mad at that. Was it an overpay for somebody who hasn't proven anything yet? Certainly. But you had to do it because you have proof of concept with what works for Luka. A big guy on the interior, blocking shots, getting dunks and easy put backs on the inside, whether it's Gafford or Lively. You get that in Walker Kessler you have to give up a lot. But you know what? He was the guy you needed. There was really no other options out there at center. And I will remind people. What was Daniel Gafford before Luka made him in Dallas? Made him like an attractive piece and he's getting paid. He's. Teams are interested. Daniel Gafford like has a market all the time because of Luka. And I'll remind you at the same time, what was PJ Washington before Luka made him in Dallas? Luca said, hey, play defense. Be my 3 and D guy and then go in the corner and I'll get you threes. And PJ Washington was like the third best player on our team that went to the finals. So all this, like, overreaction.
- [23:49]
Commercial Announcer
Oh, Lakers.
- [23:50]
Jason McIntyre
Oh, my gosh. They lost LeBron, they lost Rui. I didn't love losing Rui. They lost Luke Kennard, they lost Marcus Smart, they lost Ayton, guys, I'm just telling you, the lakers are winning 50 or more games, and the only two teams better than them for sure right now in the west are the Thunder and the Spurs. That's it. I know the starting lineup change is a little shifty and obviously not having Luka in the playoffs hurt you guys. Remember, he's a great player. He's one of the five best players in the league. Undeniably. Obviously. Austin Reeves, a great creator. Quentin Grimes. We'll see. I like him. I think Kuminga starts over him. Sandro, is he the next Rui? I don't know, man. I got to plead ignorance on the. On the big guy. Sandro, who barely could get on the court in Toronto. We'll see. But I just need you guys to remember Luka Doncic elevates everyone to the level that LeBron did in his day. Luka is a few years removed. Going to the finals with PJ Washington, Derrick Jones, Tim Hardaway, you know, Kyrie Irving, like, Luca can carry a team. And I'm looking around the west and I'm like, Minnesota, are they better? LaMelo Ball. LaMelo Ball versus Anthony Edwards in the back court. It's going to be fun. Sure, there'll be a lot of dunks and exciting alley. Oops. There could be a lot of wins in the playoffs. I mean, I love Chris Finch, but is that guy pulling his hair out knowing that he's got a. He's got to work with LaMelo Ball and losing, Not Nasrid. They got no depth on that team at all. I don't know. I don't think Minnesota's better than the Lakers right now. And then you're like, oh, well, Denver, all right. I mean, listen, Tim Hardaway was like their fourth or fifth leading scorer in the playoffs. Jamal Murray, it sounds like he's on his way to being salary dumped after next year. You think he's feeling great about himself and now they're going to overpay for Peyton Watson, who, by the way, always injured, just like all the Lakers. So is Denver better? They have. They have Jokic, but are they better? And you look around like the warriors are not better. I don't even care if LeBron goes there. They're not better. Paperclips. They're rebuilding. So what are we looking at? Phoenix, they're not better. They might beat the Lakers in the regular season. Those try hards, but are they better than the Lakers?
- [26:01]
Dax McCarty
No.
- [26:02]
Jason McIntyre
So you look at it, it's Spurs, Thunder and Lakers. And now you're talking like, okay, we win 54 games, we host a playoff series, and then maybe you catch a break and, you know, an SGA breaks down in the playoffs or something happens to Wemby, who, by the way, has had injuries and a blood clot. I'm not ruling the Lakers out of anything yet. Okay, maybe I'm being a little optimistic, but they get Kaminga, it's game on, boys. Let's go to Rachel Nichols with the news.
- [26:27]
Rachel Nichols
No, no, no.
- [26:28]
Commercial Announcer
Turn on the news.
- [26:29]
Jason McIntyre
This is the Herd line news.
- [26:32]
Rachel Nichols
They're gonna compete for Jonathan Kaminga apparently climbing. Cleveland's interested in him. The Sacramento Kings are interested in him.
- [26:39]
Jason McIntyre
Going there.
- [26:40]
Rachel Nichols
He likes Kenny Atkinson.
- [26:41]
Commercial Announcer
I don't know. We'll see.
- [26:42]
Rachel Nichols
We'll see what happens. Lakers got to sweeten the offer.
- [26:45]
Indeed Advertiser
Jeez.
- [26:46]
Jason McIntyre
Can we. Can we get rid of Laravia? You can have Jake Laravia. I'll drive him to the airport. Sorry, Jake.
- [26:53]
Rachel Nichols
Let's talk a little bit about the pairing. Jason that has just broken up, like Kobe and Shaq, like Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. There is no more Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown. And just like with those ex couples, everyone's still talking about this. This story is not dying. There's a new report that Jayson Tatum's camp has been expressing to others around the league that they weren't happy with Jaylen Brown's demeanor over the past year, especially his repeated assertion that this was his favorite season. Now, if that's true, Jayson Tatum didn't say so when he was asked about it yesterday. He was actually at a book signing, and he said that when he heard the news, it was quot tough, and that he said that this was still a successful pairing even though it ended abruptly. What do you think about this idea? Is this just we're all trying to uncover rocks because the trade was so shocking in the way it went down, or do you think there's truth to this?
- [27:51]
Jason McIntyre
Yes. I don't know, Rachel. This is weird. So in the absence of actual information, I think people just run wild with whatever consistent conspiracy they got. Right. Oh, suddenly Brown and Tatum hate each other. Maybe. Did Jason Tatum run off Jaylen Brown because he was jealous of him? And people are sending me. Not that Instagram's a source, but these old videos of, like, Tatum and smart, kind of like, I don't know about this Jalen Brown guy. Was it. Was it advanced stats? Did something happen? And, you know, there's all these conspiracy theories about. Well, Jaylen Brown's very vocal about worldly issues. And Celtics front office, they didn't love that. I mean, we don't know. Is it the salary thing? It could be all of them. I don't know, Rachel. Call me crazy, but I. I think both teams are going to be okay. Both players. But if you had to ask me who's got a better shot at getting to the finals in the east next year out of these two? Not the Knicks. I would say Celtics. I think the Celtics are going to be just fine with their system and their stats, and I think they've got a better system than Philly.
- [28:53]
Rachel Nichols
Jason, I want to affirm for you, Instagram is not a source. So let's just know that going forward. Look, I can't imagine that Jayson Tatum was happy with hearing over and over again from Jaylen Brown. And he didn't say it just the once. He said it multiple times. This was my favorite season. I don't know that. I haven't talked to Jason about it, but there's been hints if you're looking for them. Drew Hanlon, Jason's very longtime friend and trainer, had some critical tweets. There's just some tweets that. I'm sorry, they weren't outwardly critical. They were underlying critical. Basically talking about how Jayson Tatum's usage had to go up and guess who that would have to come from? Jaylen Brown. You hear over and over, this was my favorite season. This is my favorite season when I'm not playing with you. This is my favorite season over when we won the championship together. Because his usage is higher because he gets to do whatever he wants. And it's not just hearing that. If you're Jayson Tatum, from a basketball standpoint, that must be hard. If you are rehabbing from one of the worst injuries in sports. That is one of the most brutal rehabs. You are lonely. You're away from the team a lot. You have to do so much work. Think about what Jayson Tatum had to do just to get back as early as he got back that required so much from him. So you are sweating and bleeding for this and you hear from this other guy. I am so happy with the way things are working out right now. Again, Jason Tatum will never tell us what you heard from him from that book signing yesterday is all you're ever going to get from him. He is a more introverted guy. He's never going to cause trouble. But it would rub me the wrong way. I don't know about you.
- [30:28]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah, well, they're also different people, right? I know Brown's 29. I think Tatum's 28. But, like, Tatum has two young kids, you know, and that changes things.
- [30:37]
Rachel Nichols
Jaylen Brown, the children.
- [30:39]
Jason McIntyre
Well, no, no, no. He.
- [30:40]
Sports Commentator
Hold on.
- [30:40]
Jason McIntyre
So Jaylen Brown doesn't. Not to best of my knowledge. He doesn't have kids. He hangs out with a lot of. He's like a young guy still, like, trying to date, you know, influential influencers or whatever. And he's like a crew. Tatum's more of like a I'm staying at home kind of guy. Right. So you got two different people and they're kind of maybe growing apart. Does that happen sometimes?
- [30:58]
Rachel Nichols
I mean, sure. They've always been very different personalities. I think when we look at why did Boston make this trade with Philly? Why trade to a rival that's right there next to you that you're definitely going to see many times a year and probably in the playoffs. Why take the deal that you took and take on Paul George's contract? They made a statement. The owner and the general manager got up in front of the entire Boston media the other day and said, this was not financial. Well, if it's not financial, which I kind of agree, it wasn't. When you look at Paul George's contract, if it's not financial, it must be because they decided that this coming fall was going to ignite the kind of dumpster fire that would be bad for their team. The usage rate. It is a boring thing to talk about in the summer, but if you look at what Drew Hanlon, the trainer, tweeted, he said, oh, you know, the Celtics win when Jayson Tatum's usage rate is 33% or higher. Guess what? It wasn't when he came back after Jaylen Brown had been running things this past season. And to get it back to that point, guess whose usage was going to have to go down? Jaylen Brown's. And Jaylen Brown does not see himself as a 1B or whatever you want to call it anymore. He thinks he is the one A. And when you have that disconnect between what a guy thinks he is and what the organization and other players on the team might think he is, you are headed toward trouble. And that is the best explanation to me about why they made this trade.
- [32:22]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah, I like the Boston system.
- [32:24]
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- [32:24]
Jason McIntyre
Hey, we're driving kick. We're threes and layups. I know not everybody loves watching that. Tatum has a better handle, a better assist to turnover ratio, and Brown drives into the lane and takes a lot of bad ish shots. Yeah, I don't know man, I'm not banging on Jaylen Brown but I do think to your point about the trade to the rival, I think Philly is going to implode. I don't know when I think they're going to win a bunch of games right. And there's going to be a honeymoon period. But eventually Brown's going to want to get his maxi's going to want to get his maxi. Averaged 21 shots a game in the playoffs against I think it was the Celtics in that series. There's no way he's getting that many shots with Brown and a healthy and beef. It's just not happening and at some point somebody's going to pop off and I, I don't think it's going to end well this year for Philly.
- [33:10]
Rachel Nichols
Well, we'll talk about a little later in the show, but Sixers would also like to add LeBron and are going aggressively after him. So we'll talk about how many basketballs might be necessary there. Let's stick with the NBA. It turns out Jason Jalen Brunson is even more of a superhero than we thought. According to reports, Brunson had been playing through the post season with a left wrist injury and still managed to pick up a Finals MVP lead the Knicks to their first NBA championship since 1973. Brunson underwent successful surgery yesterday and the expectation is he will be able to return to basketball activities this summer. Be fine for training camp. Now Jason, I like how you just tried to save face because to the public you just said hey, who's more likely of these two teams, the Celtics and the Sixers to get further in the playoffs? This morning in the morning meeting Jason, you just said who do you think is going to be better in the east or come out first in the East? You forgot about your supposed New York Knicks.
- [34:08]
Jason McIntyre
The Knicks are going to be fine. I do. I think the Mitchell Robinson loss is huge for them and the rest of their bench has a couple question marks. But yeah, I love the Knicks. Now I will say Karl Anthony Towns is the name to watch. You know this Rachel. We'll see what happens. This owner, I don't know Dolan at all.
- [34:27]
Rachel Nichols
What do you think is going to happen?
- [34:28]
Jason McIntyre
We'll see. Is he going to get paid? Is Brunson going to get paid? Remember Brunson took less earlier. Eventually they're going to have to make good on Brunson. Can they make good on Brunson and Towns?
- [34:40]
Rachel Nichols
I mean look, they are already having different players on that roster come back for Less money than they could. We saw it with Landry Shamit, we saw it with Jose Alvarado. So I don't know if it's sort of what Jalen Brunson has injected into the team culture, but there's definitely a belief around that locker room with some people that, hey, we're all going to take a little less so this team can stay together. Because the greatest death of championship teams, the reasons we don't have dynasties in this era right now, is the rules of the CBA changed, and it's very hard to keep a championship team together. So we're seeing guys make those sacrifices. We'll see what happens with Kat, but I don't know. Are you ready to sit here and tell me you think the Knicks are coming out of the east next year and are going to win the title again?
- [35:19]
Jason McIntyre
It's July 8th. I might go. I might pick.
- [35:22]
Rachel Nichols
I might pick.
- [35:23]
Jason McIntyre
I might pick the Pacers.
- [35:24]
Landon Donovan
I don't know.
- [35:25]
Jason McIntyre
Oh, you're Wizards. No, just kidding. But the only reason I say that is because this summer, what, Kawhi changed teams. LeBron will be on a different team. Jaylen Brown, Giannis. I know what you say, like, that's crazy. How could that happen? It's the NBA. Wacky stuff happens all the time.
- [35:40]
Rachel Nichols
I'm just saying true fans always believe their team's going to win a title. So we'll talk about this. Let's go over to the NFL Cowboys fans. Very happy to hear this. CD Lamb, who, as we know, missed three games last season, that high ankle sprain, he also exited a bunch of games early and finished with a clear low three touchdowns entering this season. CD Lamb is telling other players this is the best he has felt in years. Jason. So if Ceedee Lam doesn't miss three games, if he doesn't exit those other games early with nagging, different injuries, I don't know. You look at him and George Pickens out there, that is just devastating. How do you feel their offense is going to match up with the rest of the NFC east and is it going to be enough? I mean, they're the biggest threat to Philly, I think, right? I mean, we're not talking about my
- [36:25]
Jason McIntyre
commanders, but Colin likes the Giants, you like the commanders. That division's wacky.
- [36:30]
Rachel Nichols
I like the commanders because, unlike you, I'm not a fair weather fan. So I'm gonna always believe that my team will do well. But, yeah, I have to, you know, just objectively tell you that the Cowboys and the Eagles are certainly the favorites in that division. Do you think CD Lamb saying he's going to be healthier this year, do you think that pushes them up more?
- [36:50]
Jason McIntyre
I mean, talk is cheap, you know, I, I mean, come on. I'm not, I don't, I don't think it really elevates them. I think they're gonna be good, you know, nine wins. Does that get to the playoffs? Something like that.
- [37:00]
Rachel Nichols
I mean, look, they did, you know, all the math guys are in there and they're saying, well, if CD Lamb played as well this past season as he did during the quarters that he was healthy, he would have had 1500 yards as it was. I think he had about 1200 yards.
- [37:14]
Jason McIntyre
Tough skill.
- [37:15]
Rachel Nichols
It's just you're looking at an upgrade. I mean, it's not a small thing. If he is able to play throughout the whole season in a way he didn't last year, we'll have to see.
- [37:23]
Jason McIntyre
I mean, you got road trips to la, Seattle. That schedule is brutal. I mean, oh, Baltimore.
- [37:31]
Brad Friedel
Yeah.
- [37:31]
Jason McIntyre
Let me adjust 8 and 9, 8 and 9 for Dallas today. Subject to change in a few weeks when we host together.
- [37:38]
Rachel Nichols
Sounds good.
- [37:38]
Jason McIntyre
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.
- [37:44]
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- [40:03]
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- [41:43]
Jason McIntyre
in Dax McCarty, former US National Team player last seen crushing it on First Things first throughout the world Cup. Dax, great to have you on. I'm just curious since you actually played at a high level in Qualifies for qualifiers for the US when you watch our performance against. Against Belgium, like, there's no shame in losing to a good team like Belgium. They have world class players. But the way we lost, are you just like, ooh, guys, come on.
- [42:12]
Dax McCarty
Yeah. That's easily the most disappointing aspect of not just losing in a World cup, but in a home World Cup. The fact that this US Men's national team, they really galvanized the entire country behind them. Not just people who love soccer or people who work in soccer, but maybe people who don't care as much for soccer. They really got involved and behind this team because of the way that they had played throughout the tournament. They won the games they were expected to win, but it was also the performances that were really inspiring. The way that you were dominating teams, scoring goals, the way you were setting records, it was a team that you could really get behind and really root for and really start to believe that they could do something special. And so to go out on the field against Belgium and really not even get off the bus, you don't even give yourself a chance to win the game because of the lack of energy, the lack of enthusiasm that you started the game with. That, for me, is going to be a lasting impression and a lasting memory on a team that I really wanted to remember as. As galvanizing this country to believe in soccer as we do every four years. But it was a really disappointing way to go out.
- [43:25]
Jason McIntyre
So. So I could take this 50 different ways, but, like, how does that kind of thing happen? Like, usually if you. If you consistently perform bad out of the gate, hey, it's probably a coaching game plan issue. Do you think the Baligan controversy in the 48 hours leading up, do you think that had anything to do with the mindset? I mean, if the guys were on their phones, this was like the number one story in the country above everything else.
- [43:48]
Brad Friedel
Yeah.
- [43:49]
Dax McCarty
J. Mac, I think you have to look at the situation and say it would be almost impossible for this not to be some sort of distraction for the U.S. men's National Team going into the game. And I'm not saying that's the reason why they started the game so poorly, but it certainly was a distraction because everywhere you looked, whether on social media, whether their phones, getting texts from people in their close circles, whether you looked on major news outlets, that was what was being talked about. And so it certainly was a part of it. It certainly motivated Belgium a little bit more than I think they otherwise would have been. If the Baligan red card suspension would have Been upheld. They said as much after the game. But it still does not excuse the U.S. men's National Team for starting the game the way they started it. It looked to me like there was a lack of energy. I don't even want to say arrogance. I want to say maybe a little bit of overconfidence because of the way that they had been playing in the tournament, but also the way that Belgium had been playing in the tournament. And I'm guilty of this just as much as the next fan or analyst. I think I over indexed how well the U.S. men's National Team had played in this World cup in the group stage and then how poorly I thought Belgium had played in their group stage games and against Senegal. That kind of went out the window when both of these teams met. And Belgium has a ton of quality players. They have world class players all over the field. They're well coached and they were highly motivated. So yes, a little surprising the way the US started the game and played the game. The performance was unacceptable, but not really all that surprising that Belgium won.
- [45:24]
Jason McIntyre
All right, a lot of post mortem nonsense about, oh, the U.S. we just don't have the talent. I kind of push back on that. Dax, you. You played at a high level. You look at this roster that we have and you look at every World cup roster the last 30 years, we've never had this much talent. We've got guys epl, Germany, Netherlands, two guys in Italy, all top leagues around the world. We have the talent. Would you agree that talent is an issue?
- [45:51]
Dax McCarty
I don't think talent is an issue. I do believe that there is some merit to the fact that a lot of our really talented players, they don't play really regularly for their club teams. You say five or six guys play regularly for their club. Christian Pulisic at AC Milan, Weston McKinney at Juventus, Chris Richards at Crystal Palace, Tyler Adams at Bournemouth.
- [46:15]
Jason McIntyre
But.
- [46:16]
Dax McCarty
But I look at also a couple of other players on the periphery of the team. Sergino Dest had just recovered from a major injury. Gio Reina has all the talent in the world and he barely played in the Bundesliga this past year. Malik Tillman, who I believe was our best player in this World cup alongside Weston McKinney. He was a reserve for a big portion of the last couple of months for Bayer Leverkusen. So you go up and down the line of the players and you look at our starting 11, specifically that played a majority of this tournament and they're all really talented players. Some of them are very special players. But I look at the consistency with which they played with their club teams and I look at that and say, yes, they played, some of them didn't play as consistently, but who was really relied on to be a very important piece of their club team? It might be two or three guys at most. So while we do have talent, while we may have the most talent that we've ever had in our player pool, I still believe that there's something to be said for getting that experience, being a counted on leader at your club teams, to come into the national team and carry that form over. And I also think, J Mac, that we weren't as deep as maybe a lot of people thought we were going into this tournament. And I think the performance against Turkey kind of showed that.
- [47:28]
Jason McIntyre
Okay, one more before a messy question. So do you think the move is for a lot of these guys who were playing in top leagues, but maybe not starting or being a leader, a captain?
- [47:35]
Dax McCarty
Yeah.
- [47:36]
Jason McIntyre
Do you think the move is come back to the MLS like, or play like a second division? Like, what's the move?
- [47:42]
Dax McCarty
Not necessarily. I think each individual player has to determine what is best for them in their career. If a player is motivated by family, if a player is motivated by finances, if a player is motivated by playing at the highest level possible. Well, I played in MLS my entire career. I love mls. I think MLS is a burgeoning league that's getting better every year. But I'm not going to sit here and argue that. I think our best players, that if they still have the capability and quality to play at the best clubs in Europe, I still think they should stay there. But it has to make sense for them from a playing time standpoint. I would much rather have Malik Tillman play at a slightly smaller club than Bayer Leverkusen, but if it means he's going to be a massive part of that club and play Europa League minutes, play Champions League minutes, I think that is much more valuable for players than not playing at the biggest clubs in the world. I think playing time over everything else is more valuable.
- [48:37]
Brad Friedel
Gotcha.
- [48:38]
Jason McIntyre
All right, we got a minute left. Lionel Messi. I'll just wind you up, man. Go.
- [48:43]
Dax McCarty
Love it. Yeah. Lionel Messi is the greatest player of all time. And he is still showing the world that he is one of the greatest players of all time. Still, even at this World Cup, a lot of people thought, you know, Lionel Messi came to Major League Soccer. That one is an acknowledgement that he was going to ride off into the sunset. Question marks about would he play for Argentina would he not play? I think that he has completely buried all of those concerns, all of those fears. He has been the best player at this World Cup. He has galvanized, quite frankly, an Argentina team that hasn't looked all that dominant by his otherworldly displays. There's really no other adjective you can use to describe him. It's unfathomable. It's unthinkable. He is a genius. Genius. He potentially is an alien. That is how fantastic he has been at this tournament. And while I think France and Spain have probably looked like the more dominant teams, they have been looked more like the teams that I think can go on and win this tournament. You can never count out Argentina and Lionel Messi.
- [49:42]
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- [49:43]
Jason McIntyre
He's driving down the pitch. He's facing price hikes and cuts past him. Carrier contracts, tries to block him. Oh, he leaves him in the dust.
- [49:49]
Dax McCarty
He's at the edge of the box.
- [49:50]
Jason McIntyre
He cuts past the non stop group chat trash talk. He clears on goal.
- [49:54]
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He shoots.
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Dax McCarty
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Jason McIntyre
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Jason McIntyre
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- [52:18]
Jason McIntyre
herd this is an iHeart podcast.
- [52:21]
Rachel Nichols
Guaranteed human.