THE HERD - Hour 1 - Sam Darnold is under pressure, Super Bowl or bust for Josh Allen, thoughts on the Packers-Bears rivalry

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd (Hosted by Jason McIntyre & Rachel Nichols)

Hour 1 – Sam Darnold’s Pressure, Super Bowl or Bust for Josh Allen, and Packers-Bears Rivalry
Date: January 16, 2026

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Overview

In this episode of The Herd, Jason McIntyre (filling in for Colin Cowherd) is joined by Rachel Nichols to discuss the top NFL playoff storylines. The hour centers on the immense pressure facing Sam Darnold as he seeks his first playoff win, the “Super Bowl or bust” expectations on Josh Allen as the Bills’ window narrows, and the brewing rivalry drama between the Chicago Bears’ Ben Johnson and the Green Bay Packers' coaching “clan.” Additional segments include reactions to major MLB and NFL news, and lively debate about coaching stability in Philly.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Sam Darnold: Under the Playoff Microscope

(01:35–07:57)

• First Impressions & The Darnold Narrative:
  Jason opens with a personal story about first impressions, then relates it to Sam Darnold’s turbulent NFL journey — from a disastrous first pass (a pick-six) with the Jets to his current opportunity to prove himself with Seattle.

  • “My Jets, Monday Night Football. And there’s all these USC fans watching the game, and it was pure laughter. Oh, here we go again with the Jets.” – Jason (03:08)

• Career Resilience & Playoff Stakes:
  Darnold boasts regular season wins but, crucially, zero playoff victories. Jason believes Darnold’s perception won’t change until he has a signature postseason moment:

  • “All I've heard Colin say all week is that you know who has the most wins in the last two years in the NFL? Not Mahomes. Not Josh Allen. Not Matt Stafford. It’s Sam Darnold. And these regular season wins, what do they really mean? Nothing.” – Jason (04:21)
  • “Sam Darnold is under more pressure than Josh Allen this weekend… The reality is, unless he wins the Super Bowl…that’s not going to cut it. Sam Darnold needs to get the ball. Fourth quarter, trailing…Go down the field and get the win.” – Jason (06:29)

• Brock Purdy Contrast:
  Purdy, in contrast, is lauded for his spotless "first impression," while Darnold’s journey is framed by past missteps.

  • “First impressions matter… that’s why I’ve been blown away by Brock Purdy.” – Jason (05:45)

• X’s and O’s, Margin for Error:
  A “Brady” soundbite stresses minimizing mistakes and staying sharp under playoff pressure.

  • “When you get to these big moments… the margin of error when you play good teams is just very small…you have the least margin of error. It's a tall order for Sam Darnold and the Seahawks.” – (07:25)

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2. Josh Allen: Is This Buffalo’s Last Shot?

(07:57–13:27)

• All Eyes on Allen:
  Jason ranks the upcoming Buffalo-Denver matchup as “Super Bowl or bust” for the Bills, citing Allen’s age (turns 30 soon), costly cap hits, and a fragile window for success.

  • “Josh Allen has established himself as an MVP and a superstar…But these big quarterbacks who take a pounding, they're not meant to be 15-year franchise quarterbacks.” – Jason (09:48)
  • “If Buffalo doesn’t break through…we could be looking at them being the next team to pull back in the AFC. Similar to Kansas City, Baltimore, Cincinnati.” – Jason (10:53)

• Allen’s Lebron Parallel & Supporting Cast:
  Jason compares Allen to early-career LeBron, likening his supporting cast to “Ilgauskas and Mo Williams,” suggesting Buffalo’s roster is not built for deep contention.

  • “That’s what Josh Allen is working with…not a really well-rounded football team, and Buffalo’s in trouble.” – Jason (12:15)

• Rachel’s Take:
  Rachel still has faith in Allen’s talent to lift Buffalo:

  • “He’s the most talented player on the field.” – Rachel (13:02)
  • “When it feels like a wash…you go with the most talented guy on the field.” – Rachel (13:13)

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3. Packers-Bears Rivalry & The “Shanahan Clan”

(16:10–23:19)

• The Drama Heats Up:
  Jason explores a simmering beef between Bears coach Ben Johnson and Packers coach Matt LaFleur, stoked by Johnson’s anti-Packers rhetoric and cold postgame handshakes.

  • “Ben Johnson initiated it…You are getting smashed against the Packers twice and needed to get bailed out with some heroic fourth quarter stuff from Caleb Williams.” – Jason (16:31)

• NFL Rivalries & Pettiness:
  Rachel likens the tension to NBA-style “pettiness” and notes its increasing presence in the NFL.

• The Shanahan Coaching Tree:
  Jason likens LaFleur, McVay, McDaniel & Shanahan to the “PayPal mafia,” dominating the league from their Washington Commanders roots.

  • “There is like a Shanahan clan thing now. That’s becoming a thing. These guys are a crew…Well, Ben Johnson's probably a little sick and tired of hearing about this Shanahan posey.” – Jason (20:23)
  • “Ben Johnson’s probably a little sick and tired of hearing about this Shanahan Posey. Like, I’ve done a lot. Why do I keep having to hear about LaFleur and Shanahan and McDaniel and McVay? Screw those guys.” – Jason (20:58)

• Johnson the Outlaw:
  Jason suggests Johnson is “alienating himself” and risks isolation in a league dominated by deep coaching relationships.

  • “No man is an island. You cannot win that way long term. When you're winning and running hot, they love you. You're a genius. You've built culture. And right now, Ben Johnson’s got all of that. But…word has gotten around the Shanahan crew that ‘hey, this Ben Johnson guy, he’s kind of…’” – Jason (21:54)

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4. Baseball, Mahomes’ Injury & Chargers OC Firing

(23:28–33:50)

• Dodgers Spending Spree:
  Rachel shares her glee about the Dodgers landing Kyle Tucker. Jason supports “no salary cap, spend whatever you want,” while both marvel at the Dodgers’ willingness to reinvest Ohtani windfalls into building a dynasty.

  • “These are the rules…Go get everybody. And the Dodgers are doing that.” – Jason (24:09)
  • “My take is the same as yours, right? It's in the rules. Obviously, I'm a little biased.” – Rachel (24:49)

• Mahomes ACL Recovery:
  Mahomes aims for a week 1 return; both are skeptical he’ll be ready.

  • “He’s excited for the process …but…No shot.” – Jason (28:09, 28:29)
  • “Nine months is sort of the ballpark for an ACL…He got injured on December 14th…So, that’s September 14th. If you’re going for the nine months…It is roughly the nine month mark.” – Rachel (28:37)

• Chiefs’ Uncertain Future:
  Jason points to a weaker supporting cast and a loaded AFC, casting doubt on KC’s 2026 playoff chances.

  • “I don’t know if the Chiefs are getting back to the playoffs next year, seriously.” – Jason (30:33)

• Chargers OC Firing:
  Harbaugh fires Greg Roman – a longtime confidant – after continued playoff flops. Rachel and Jason discuss the appeal of the now-vacant job, with Justin Herbert as a lure.

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5. Eagles’ Locker Room: Coaching or Star Player Problem?

(36:37–47:24)

• Philly Drama:
  After a sideline spat between A.J. Brown and Nick Sirianni, speculation swirls about locker room toxicity.

  • “This is a toxic relationship… A.J. Brown practically getting in his face. That’s not good.” – Jason (36:55)

• Offensive Coordinator Carousel:
  Jason highlights Philly’s instability: five OCs in six years, with only a few working out. He recommends trading A.J. Brown and (if that fails) eventually moving on from Sirianni.

  • “You cannot win consistently when you’re changing your offensive playbook every year.” – Jason (39:12)
  • “I think the Eagles have an A.J. Brown problem and a Sirianni problem. Free solution: You trade A.J. Brown, you get whatever the hell you can.” – Jason (41:58)

• Rachel’s Counterpoint:
  Rachel advocates for coaching continuity and warns about the perils of the NFL’s “revolving door.”

  • “What’s wrong with professional sports right now: we are getting rid of coaches like they are Kleenex… If you don’t have that stability…you are going to have problems.” – Rachel (43:25)
  • “It makes the guys like Mike Tomlin…more rare and special because they were able to be there for so long.” – Rachel (44:00)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Darnold’s Pressure:
  “The reality is, unless he wins the super bowl, and I don’t mean, hey, he’s a…game manager like Trent Dilfer in a 33-10 victory, that’s not going to cut it. Sam Darnold needs to get the ball. Fourth quarter trailing…go down the field and get the win.” – Jason (06:29)

• On Josh Allen’s Crossroads:
  “I do believe if they don’t get through to the Super Bowl this year, that window’s closed. And I know that’s going to hurt Buffalo fans.” – Jason (11:47)

• On NFL Coaching Cliques:
  “There is like a Shanahan clan thing now. That’s becoming a thing. These guys are a crew…Well, Ben Johnson’s probably a little sick and tired of hearing about this Shanahan posey.” – Jason (20:23)

• On Dodgers Spending:
  “My take is the same as yours, right? It’s in the rules… I gotta take it where I can get it.” – Rachel, on being a happy Dodgers fan (24:49, 27:21)

• On Coaching Stability:
  “If you don’t have that stability in the building and that voice over and over again, you are going to have problems. And you establish a culture where everyone’s in and out the door…players don’t know who they can trust.” – Rachel (43:36)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------| | 01:35 | Show open – Darnold’s first impression, NFL journey | | 06:29 | What Darnold must do to change perception | | 07:25 | Brady on QB accuracy and pressure in big moments | | 09:48 | Josh Allen’s durability, Bills’ closing window | | 13:02 | Rachel: Bills’ edge is Allen’s talent | | 16:10 | Packers-Bears rivalry, Ben Johnson's antagonism | | 20:23 | Shanahan coaching “Mafia”, NFL coaching cliques | | 24:33 | Dodgers free agency, MLB spending philosophy | | 28:09 | Mahomes’ injury: realistic timetable | | 36:37 | Eagles sideline drama: Brown vs Sirianni | | 39:12 | Philly's OC carousel, locker room speculation | | 43:25 | Rachel: The case for coaching stability in NFL |

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Summary

The hour is stacked with sharp insight and friendly conflict. Jason McIntyre frames narratives with a mix of personal storytelling (his “first impression” theme), statistical context, and pointed opinion. Rachel Nichols brings counterweight—reminding listeners of stability’s value, long-term team building, and the cyclical nature of sports narratives. Together, they offer NFL fans both the “sky is falling” urgency of the playoffs and big-picture perspective.

This episode is essential for listeners tracking quarterback legacies, the evolving dynamics of NFL coaching power, and the high-stakes drama of the postseason.

Transcript

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Hello and happy Friday. It's the Herd. Colin Cowherd is out of town for the day, so you got a special treat. Me, Jason McEntire, joined by the immortal Rachel Nichols. We will bring the noise and the funk on a beautiful Friday out here in Los Angeles. Divisional weekend. Rachel Nichols, I know you're fired up.

[Rachel Nichols]

Favorite weekend of the year. This is the best playoff weekend in the NFL.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, I'm hopeful that we get some good games. We don't have all the great quarterbacks, right? But maybe, you know, your Washington team was here last year. Remember they smashed Detroit? Yeah. Oh, boy, we got a great, great show today. Greg Jennings, one of my favorites. He's stopping by. I wonder if we'll talk about the packers at all. I don't know. Maybe. Possibly. And of course, Chris, Felica, Toront, Armste. We got a great show. But I want to start, ladies and gentlemen, with first impressions. I'm sure your parents told you at some point, oh, first impressions are everything. Got to have the firm handshake, got to make the eye contact. Well, I remember my first impression of Los Angeles a decade ago. You know, the wife and I, we come out here to check out Los Angeles, see if we're going to move out here. And Colin and his wife showed us out. Really nice dinner. 70 degrees, the sunset, the South Bay. It was incredible. First impression of Los Angeles. We're here. We got to go. Sold. And I want to talk about the first impression of Sam Darnold. You guys surely remember where he started his NFL career, right? I was with my New York Jets. I have not forgotten this game. I remember it fondly. Monday Night Football, Sammy Darnold and the jets go to Detroit, and Sam Darnold throws a pick six on his first NFL pass. I'll never forget it. I was playing basketball and I'm like, guys, I got to bail early. Sam Darnold debut, you know, it's a big game. My Jets, Monday Night Football. And there's all these USC fans watching the game, and it was pure laughter. Oh, here we go again with the Jets. And that was kind of the start of a rough go for Sam Darnold in New York. You know, whether it was pick six on their first career pass, they did win the game, but nobody remembers that they won the pick six. That's all they remember. And the next year, Sam Darnold is seeing ghosts in the pocket, famously on Monday Night football in a 33 nothing beat down against the Patriots. And I'm of the belief that Sam Darnold is under so much pressure this weekend and in these playoffs because of that first impression. It was so bad. He's run out of New York. He's in Carolina, okay, Trying to rehab the image. Then he goes and sits in San Fran. Now he's found a home in Seattle. And, folks, let's be real. Sam Darnold appears to be a franchise quarterback. I got hit with a fun fact in the morning meeting today. Sam Darnold, zero career playoff wins. I was blown away. I was like, wait a minute. All I've heard Collins say all week is that you know who has the most wins in the last two years in the NFL? Not Mahomes. It's not Josh Allen. It's not Matt Stafford. It's Sam Darnold. And these regular season wins, what do they mean? I really. Nothing. I don't think anybody's impression of Sam Darnold is going to change unless he wins the super bowl beating San Fran. Come on. They're touchdown favorites. I don't want to hear about this. Oblique. Injury. Now, obviously, Darnold addressed the game yesterday. Apparently kind of a pulled oblique in practice. Shut it down early. He says he's definitely going to play. I know some people are talking. Oh, the excuses. Here we go. Here's Darnold talking about the matchup with San Francisco. I think for us, we're treating it, you know, just another week, another game. You know, that's. That's how everyone, especially in that locker room, like we got. We got such great guys in that locker room, mature, you know, leaders at every position group. So, you know, everyone's just ready to go attacking the week, you know, per usual, and getting ready to go up against a really good 49ers team, you know, that's been rolling, and we're excited to go up against them. Yeah, it is funny. They are the favorites to win the Super Bowl. They're the number one seed, and their quarterback has not won a playoff game. That's staggering. And then you look at the other side of the coin. He's facing Brock Purdy. My guy, Brock Purdy. You know, I love to cape up for him. Well, Jay, what was Brock Purdy's first impression? Oh, I don't know. He won, like, every game he started in the first year in San Francisco. And then they go to the Eagles in the playoff game. He gets hurt on the first drive, and it's like, okay, TBD next season, they go to the Super bowl, he takes the lead in overtime against Patrick Mahomes. First impressions matter. And that's why I've been blown away by Brock Purdy. Meanwhile, you got Sam Darnold, folks. How about this stat? You know who had the best record against the spread gambling this year? Seattle Seahawks. Why? Because nobody believes in Sam Darnold. They're laying points. I can't lay points of Sam Darnold, folks. When they walk. When that game kicks off, everybody in the stadium knows the deal. Shanahan and Purdy are going to cook. The Seattle defense is really good. We know what JSN is going to give us on the outside. Man, Charbonnet, Kenneth Walker. That duo's nasty. Is Sam Darnold going to be able to win us the football game? And that's why I think he's under more pressure than Josh Allen this weekend. I mean, Josh Allen has established himself as an MVP and a superstar. Sam Darnold doesn't have a playoff win, okay? The moment he throws an interception in this one. Remember that Rams Thursday night game? Remember how bad he was? They get bailed out by the Special teams luck box. 2 point conversion. Nobody credits that game to Sam Darnold. I mean, we're at the point. And again, Sam Darnold's a nice guy. I met him at the Super Bowl a few years ago. Really talented quarterback. But the reality is, unless he wins the super bowl, and I don't mean, hey, he's a, you know, he's a game manager like Trent Dilfer in a 3310 victory, that, that's not going to cut it. Sam Darnold needs to get the ball. Fourth quarter trailing like Caleb Williams has done a billion times this year. Go down the field and get the win. That's what it's going to take, I believe, for Darnold to exercise the ghosts. And here's Brady on Darnold needing to be aggressive in this one. When you get to these big moments in big games, whether that's, you know, certainly playoffs or some of these games have happened at the end of the year determining whether going to get in or not, the margin of error when you play good teams is just very small. So that's where the fundamentals come into play. You have to, you know, in order to throw the ball accurately.

[Podcast Announcer/Advertiser]

Okay.

[Jason McIntyre]

And if you throw it accurately, make a decisions, you're not going to throw a lot of interceptions. It's over time. You need to refine your techniques so that when you get in these big moments, you're as accurate as you can possibly be because you have the least margin of error. It's a tall order for Sam Darnold and the Seahawks, but they're big favorites. Who be careful. All right, I want to pivot to another game this weekend with a embattled quarterback, and that is superstar Josh Allen, the defending MVP of the league. And folks, I don't think people are making a big enough deal of this game. Right here we're talking about Josh Allen. In Denver, Buffalo was favored. Now they're slight underdogs and it feels like a crossroads game for Josh Allen. Uh, I do believe he's the best quarterback in the league. Obviously he's not going to win the mvp. That'll be Stafford or Drake may, but Josh Allen has the ability to put a team on his back, win the game with his legs or with his arms, and carry Buffalo to greatness. A lot of people, myself included, had Buffalo winning the super bowl this year. Can Josh Allen pull that off? And it's kind of a big deal because you look at this roster and I don't want to scare anybody in Buffalo, but let's Be real. They got eight of their 22 starters are free agents. We're talking pivotal guys in the trenches. Starting linebacker, folks, this is a crossroads game. I do want to point out Josh Allen turns 30 in a few months. I know he doesn't miss starts because he's a cyborg. And you can't, you can't hurt Josh Allen. He's getting banged up. And to draw a parallel to another big strapping quarterback who won an MVP and one with his arm and one with his legs, Cam Newton, go look up what happened to him at 30, gets hurt, that's a wrap. It was basically over for him. These big quarterbacks who take a pounding, they're not meant to be 15 year franchise quarterbacks. They don't last. I mean, you look at Lamar Jackson, guys had an amazing career running the football. Now he's really banged up. And you don't know what the future holds for lamar Jackson, who's 29. You look at Joe Burrow, he's a guy who got to the super bowl in year two, then the AFC championship, can't get back to the playoffs. And I do believe that if Buffalo doesn't break through Denver here, folks, we could be looking at them being the next team that pulled back in the afc. Similar to Kansas City, similar to Baltimore, similar to Cincinnati. I saw that. Of the final eight quarterbacks right left in the playoffs, Josh Allen and Matt Stafford are the only two with cap hits in the top 15 in the league. Paying your quarterback what he's worth, an exorbitant sum makes it difficult to build around him. And you go look at that receiving core, folks. Going into this game against Denver, they got three healthy wide receivers going up against an elite secondary led by Patrick Sertan. You go look at all the matchups in this Denver Buffalo showdown, folks. Buffalo has him in one spot. That's it. And that's Josh Allen. You could argue James Cook, but the Denver run defense is so good that Cook could have some problems. I think Denver gave up one 100 yard rusher all season, Jonathan Taylor. So now it's basically Josh Cook against the world. And I'm trying to draw parallels. I keep coming back to early LeBron in Cleveland when he was surrounded by, you know, I don't want to Z il Gowskis and Mo Williams and Antoine Jameson. And it's like LeBron basically took the weakest supporting cast in NBA history to the Finals. They had no business being there and they got smoked, essentially. That's what Josh Allen is working with. I know people like Kincaid and they like Dawson Knox. But this is just not a really well rounded football team and Buffalo's in trouble. So I do believe if they don't get through to the super bowl this year, that that window's closed. And I know that's going to hurt Buffalo fans. We got our superstar quarterback. Just look at the quarterback injuries. Allen's not going to be able to stay upright forever. And I called this about Detroit last year and everybody's oh, you're crazy. Detroit's loaded. They didn't make the playoffs and it looks like it's a major uphill climb. They don't have an offensive coordinator, the defense is a mess. It's tough to stay on top for a long time in the NFL. Look at Rachel's Washington Commanders last year NFC championship game with Jaden Daniels. Yeah, we're here, we're good. A year later, Daniels is hurt, Cliff Kingsbury's out, the DC's out, and Dan Quinn's fighting for his job. Like these things happen quick. And I don't, I don't want to get too excited for anybody in the afc, but Fernando Mendoza is going to come into the Raiders and he's going to be successful. Okay? We've seen young quarterbacks turn it around. You remember what the Patriots were a year ago. Look at them now. Liam Cohen and Jacksonville, they're a 13 win team. The AFC is so ridiculously loaded. Maybe even my jets will figure it out at some point. Haha, they obviously won't. But like, it is very challenging right now. And I mean, C.J. stroud's on his rookie deal. The Texans seemingly every year are in the divisional round. So I do believe Josh Allen needs to get the dub here. I don't know if he can do it himself. And Rachel, I'm not going to lie, I think Josh Allen is the guy I'm most focused on heading into this weekend's games.

[Rachel Nichols]

He's the most talented player on the field. Right. And when it feels like a wash. And what, what are they? Bills are one point underdogs right now. I mean it's flipped back and forth so many times. You go with the most talented guy on the field. Obviously the altitude, home crowd that fits into it. But I don't know, man, I feel like the Bills are good at everything that the Broncos aren't.

[Jason McIntyre]

Oh, it's a spicy take. All right.

[Rachel Nichols]

I just.

[Jason McIntyre]

You going Josh Allen?

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, I'm going Bills in this one.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. All right. I'm actually with her, but I don't feel great. About it. All right, Coming up next. Listen, hey, Philadelphia's got a problem, but is it a coaching problem? A quarterback problem? A wide receiver problem? That's next year on the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Fox Sports Radio is taking over YouTube and you can be a part of it. Pay attention. Just go to YouTube and search Fox Sports Radio. Hit that subscribe button and smash that notification bell and catch all the videos from your favorite shows. Two pros and a cup of Joe, Dan Patrick, Colin Cowherd, Doug Gottlieb, Kavino and Rich the Odd Couple with Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington, the Jason Smith show with Mike Harmon and the Ben Maller Show. Fox sports radio on YouTube.

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Back here on the Herd. Top of next hour, we will rank the remaining quarterbacks in the NFL playoffs. I say we, but it's me. I don't want to attach Rachel to this hot take. That's gonna tick off a lot of people. We got some fun stuff coming up. I know Rachel loves this next story.

[Rachel Nichols]

Oh, my God.

[Jason McIntyre]

We will do the Eagles drama a little later in the hour, but this next story, folks, is starting to become a thing. I think it's going to be the dominant storyline this weekend. So Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson, they're working some magic right now. We know that. Okay? They're luckboxing their way into a billion victories, some fourth quarter heroics. Bears fans, don't get upset at the word luck. That's just the reality. You are getting smashed against the packers twice and needed to get bailed out with some heroic fourth quarter stuff from Caleb Williams. Okay? But all this has led to some beef simmering beef. And as Rachel likes to call, it's like NBA pettiness. You know, there's a lot of NBA pettiness out there. There isn't as much in the NFL, but we saw it with Ben Johnson and Matt LaFleur. So there was some trash talk during the season. Ben Johnson initiated it for being. If we're being clear, he started it with I don't like the Packers. Why did he start it? Because when you get hired, you know that the. The number one rival of the Bears is the Packers. So I'm going to lean in. I'm going to be like, fans, ride with me. We hate those guys. Okay? You're seeing a lot of this in politics now. You're either with us or you're against us. But it's all hate and divisiveness and partisanship. And we're seeing that with Ben Johnson. He's wrinkling some people the wrong way. So I don't know if we actually have the clip of the handshake at the end of the game, but it was tense. Ben Johnson was given like, basically a middle finger to him at the midfield. LaFleur is classy about it. And then afterwards in the locker room, Caleb Williams with a couple F bomb. Not Caleb, sorry, Ben Johnson. A couple of F bombs about the packers and hating them. So now here's Ben Johnson and what he said a couple days after the playoff win. There's a rivalry that exists between these two teams, something that, that I fully recognize and I'm a part of. And, yeah, I mean, There's. I just. I don't like that team. So George and I have talked and we're on the same page now. I don't know. I don't like that team. None of the reporters pressed him. It's like, why do you have a legitimate beef with him? Does it date back to Detroit? There's the handshake you see on the screen. Just the classic run by. Look at that. Just drive by. Yeah, I'm sure he was muttering something under his breast. LaFleur didn't like it. Hey, you know who else didn't like it? LaFleur's buddy, Mr. Sean McVeigh. Yes. How about this, folks, dating back to the 2012 Washington, at the time, they were the Redskins. Now they're the commanders. So 2012, this is the all time great coaching staff, right? So Mike Shanahan is the don, the veteran coach, but he had his son Kyle on staff. And listen to who else was on the staff. So it was Kyle Shanahan, Matt LaFleur, Mike McDaniel, Sean McVeigh. They made their chops that season with RG3 doing some incredible stuff as a rookie. They ended up losing to Seattle in a memorable playoff game. I had Seattle in that one. RG3 got hurt. It was one of those. He was already injured, and then he tweaked a leg. It was really bad. And they all went downhill from there, but it didn't matter. That staff made an impact, and I think a book was written about it by Mike Silver, how that. That crew kind of got together. And they are now part of the Shanahan coaching tree. They've all branched off and had varying levels of success. Kyle Shanahan is an elite coach. I don't care what people want to say. You go to Super Bowls, you're elite. Okay? We know McVay's been to two Super Bowls. He won one. Mike McDaniel didn't quite break through yet, but he did get the genius tag, I think, when he hung 70 on the Broncos a couple years ago. And then there's LaFleur, who's won a lot of games in the regular season, hasn't broken through in the playoffs. Those guys are a crew. Okay, Some of you who follow tech have heard of the PayPal mafia, right? Peter Thiel, Elon Musk. You got this. This famous crew who got together. They were all on PayPal. They made a ton of money. They're all, you know, masters of the universe, billionaires. There is like a Shanahan clan thing now. That's becoming a thing. These guys are a crew. A posy. When you see them at the owner's meetings, they're all kind of young and cooler and hip and they get. They're. They're a crew. Well, Ben Johnson, and I'm guessing here, but Ben Johnson's probably a little sick and tired of hearing about this Shanahan Posey. Oh, those guys are good. Well, really, look what I did in Detroit. I took Detroit and that offense from nothing. And we were on the doorstep of the Super Bowl. We were right there. Like, I've done a lot. Why do I keep having to hear about LaFleur and Shanahan and McDaniel and McVeigh. Screw those guys. Well, it's pretty clear that word has gotten around the Shanahan crew that, hey, this Ben Johnson guy, he's kind of a. I don't want to say that word on TV. Here's McVeigh when asked about it this week.

[Rachel Nichols]

Matt McClure, obviously big in Green Bay. I like being on your staff. He's played Ben Johnson three times this year.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, what would you gu. Now, you know what? We. We watch the tape, we do our work, and you know, Matt is a very close friend of mine. If you're listening on the radio, McVeigh, he's a close friend of mine. With a smirk and nod. Okay, so I'm gonna guess that lafleur call went something like, yo, can you. Can you work them this weekend? Can you drop a 50 burger on them? And it's. It's kind of like, listen, man, you gotta worry about. You know, I say a lot in this industry is sports media. It's less about what you know and more about who you know. And you kind of got to get in with the right people. One of our staffers had a great analogy. He's like, are you a Star wars fan, J. Mac? I was like, of course. Like Ben Johnson, you could argue he's Anakin Skywalker. He was the chosen one. He was supposed to lead the Jedi's and he went to the dark side. Now, I don't know that Ben Johnson's gone full Anakin yet, but he's pretty clearly alienating himself on an island. And, you know, no man is an island. You cannot win that way. Long term. When you're winning and running hot, they love you. You're a genius. You've built culture. And right now, Ben Johnson's got all of that. Well, you know who else had that, right? Mike McDaniel had that in Miami. Oh, Mike McDaniel offense. Look at this. Wow. He got to the playoffs with two of them. Brian Flores, hate each other. What's going on here? McDaniel's a genius. We get this tag a lot. Zach Taylor goes to the Super bowl year two. Well, it's a McVeigh guy. Come on. Guys should be out of a job. I don't know. He's still coaching the Bengals, but Ben Johnson has basically said it to the league. I don't care.

[Rachel Nichols]

I don't.

[Jason McIntyre]

I don't. I don't need nobody. You. I'll take all of y' all on. You know, I. I remember a couple of my buddies. You have a couple too many to drink in college. You get into it, say something to the wrong girl, and next thing you know, you got five guys. I'm like, I'll fight all of you guys. Not smart. And I feel like Ben Johnson may be picking a bad battle here, but we'll see this weekend. I can't wait for the drama. Let's go to Rachel with the news. No, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

[Rachel Nichols]

This story makes me smile. Jason, I'm not gonna lie.

[Jason McIntyre]

As a commander's fan, obviously, Washington, you know, you have a rich history with them.

[Rachel Nichols]

Oh, yeah, no, I'm talking about the Dodgers story I'm about to talk about. Although don't forget about your last one, Michael Fleur. I mean, you know that he's the offensive coordinator for the Rams.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yes.

[Rachel Nichols]

So there's beef all over the place.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Rachel Nichols]

Anyway. All right, let's talk about the story making me smile right now. The Dodgers and right fielder Kyle Tucker agreeing to a four year, $240 million deal. Tucker, one of the most sought after free agents this offseason. The rest of baseball. Jason, up in arms as the Dodgers had another expensive bat to the lineup. What is your take on this?

[Jason McIntyre]

Jeez, listen, I'm. I'm of the belief, like, these are the rules there. There's no salary cap. Spend whatever you want. Go get everybody. And that the Dodgers are doing that. And I'm surprised, personally, that the rest of the league is not annoyed. In the NBA, you know this. When teams get dynasties, like, and the small markets start losing their guys, they all band together and push back. And, like, I'm surprised baseball is just cool with this. Look at this roster. This is insane.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, the other teams aren't cool with it. Baseball might be cool with it, but there's definitely been grumbling. That's my point. There's. This is another Round of. Oh, the Dodgers are just buying their way to a title. And you know, look, my take is the same as yours, right? It's in the rules. Obviously I'm a little biased.

[Jason McIntyre]

You're a Dodgers fan.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yes, but, but also, by the way, Mark Walter, who owns the Dodgers, not the richest man in baseball.

[Jason McIntyre]

Who, who's the richest kid?

[Rachel Nichols]

Steve Cohen from Mets.

[Jason McIntyre]

They.

[Rachel Nichols]

Steve Cohen's net worth is three times that of Mark Walters. Now, I'm not, I don't count people's, other people's money unless you're a billionaire because, you know. Right.

[Jason McIntyre]

Were they bidding for Tucker? The Mets?

[Rachel Nichols]

They were in the running. Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

What are you going to do? You tried, right? Like would Tucker want to go to the Mets who you know aren't great or the Dodgers, who are a potential dynasty?

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, Mets, Blue Jays, I think were in the mix for, for Tucker. I mean, look, he's had some injuries. Right. There's some questions about that. There's a couple opt outs in this deal, which is unusual. People expected him to go for like a 10, 11 year deal security instead, you know, with his injury history especially. Instead he went for this sort of shorter term blockbuster deal bet on himself a little bit and the Dodgers betting on him also. I mean they've had a great off season.

[Jason McIntyre]

So did the Blue. Have the Blue Jays done much? Is it going to be competitive this year at all? Like, is there who would be the second best team to the Dodgers?

[Rachel Nichols]

Who are asking me? It's not going to be competitive at all. Come on, man.

[Jason McIntyre]

I don't know. I mean, star power and dynasties really work in sports. You either hate the Dodgers or you love them right now.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, here's what I like about the way this has been going is that, I mean, in addition to of course, the wins, but the idea that Mark Walter is investing back in the team, they have made so much money off of Shohei Ohtani and all of the endorsements and sales and merchandise and everything that's come in. They've not only already made back Ohtani's salary, it is allowing them to do things like this because he's putting all of that money back into the team. People around him say that he's basically looking at, hey, this team is hot. Why would you not invest in back them all the way? Because it's not always going to be like this. There's a blackout or strike coming in baseball down the road possibly. I mean there's, there's an idea of this team is so good, you throw everything at it. And you deal with the consequences later. And we've criticized. Right. The Cleveland Cavaliers didn't do that with LeBron. You know, the warriors right now aren't doing that with Steph Curry. There are teams and people like Shohei Ohtani where you got him, you throw every single dollar you have.

[Jason McIntyre]

Do you think there will be a salary cap in baseball eventually or no?

[Rachel Nichols]

I don't think so.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's. Listen, the worst teams are just bottom feeders as almost serving as AAA clubs for the elites. Right. And the rich teams that want to spend.

[Rachel Nichols]

Again, not the right person to complain to.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, must be good, Rachel.

[Podcast Announcer/Advertiser]

Nice.

[Rachel Nichols]

There you go. Look, I mean, you know, as I said, I grew up a Wizards fan. I gotta take it where I can get it. Let's move on. Patrick Mahomes suffered that brutal knee injury in week 15, but he is feeling good about his rehab so far. The Chiefs quarterback says he's attacking the process. Jason, he says he's excited about it.

[Jason McIntyre]

Listen, I want to be ready for week one. Doctors said that I could be, but I can't predict what's going to happen throughout the process. But that's my goal. And so I'll try to prepare myself to be ready to play in that week one and, and have no restrictions. You know, you want to be out there healthy and giving us the best chance to win. And so obviously, hopefully be able to do some, some stuff in OTAs and then get to training camp and hopefully be able to do a lot there. So I'm excited for the process. It's a long process, but I'm excited for it.

[Rachel Nichols]

I love that last couple sentences. Right? He's excited for the process. He's only. Only. It didn't seem so much as like, oh, athletes speak. He is clearly treating this as he would the season. What's the week one progress? What's the week two progress? I'm excited about? He's kind of looking at this as its own season before he gets to. As he said, he wants to come back week one. What do you think about that?

[Jason McIntyre]

No shot.

[Rachel Nichols]

No shot.

[Jason McIntyre]

No way. Why did you rush back? He's young.

[Rachel Nichols]

Is that rushing, though?

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean, an acl, you think that.

[Rachel Nichols]

Quick turnaround, I mean, nine months is sort of the ballpark for an acl. Some go longer, some go shorter. He got injured on December 14th. Okay, so that's September 14th. Yeah, if you're going for the nine months, I mean, the season starts September 10th and they're not going to be the opening game. Um, so I don't know, I don't think it's so crazy. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it is roughly the nine month mark.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. I would err on the side of caution. I mean, he's got a long career ahead of him now. I don't know, the recurrence of ACL injuries after you get one. Yeah, but I'm more worried about the team. Like, what are they going to look like? I saw, Pff. Wrote an article like, the roster is going to be better. I'm like, how all they're doing is losing people.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, I mean, look, with Mahomes out, it gives them a chance to really evaluate how much is him covering for everyone else and where do they need to improve. Right?

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. Where's Travis Kelce? Is he coming back?

[Rachel Nichols]

Still contemplating.

[Jason McIntyre]

Oh, he's planning a wedding. I forgot. Come on. I mean, Rasheed Rice stays in the news. We're not going to talk about that. The running back situation, garbage. The offensive line, they got a lot. I know. We know what Mahomes is going to do when he's back. Yeah, but to my point earlier about Josh Allen, it's like, you think Josh Allen's indestructible. I mean, we thought Mahomes was indestructible. He's just a warrior. Plays through everything. And now he's hurting out nine months. Like, is he going to be what he was before, like physically running? Because that was one of his big wins, just being able to elude defenders in the pocket.

[Rachel Nichols]

I mean, look, it's not foolproof, but if you start your team with one of the best quarterbacks, you automatically have an advantage in the NFL.

[Jason McIntyre]

Do you remember? I think you were here.

[Rachel Nichols]

I was here. You were like, the Chiefs aren't making the playoffs. The Chiefs aren't making the playoffs. And I was like, come on, man. They're gonna. I don't think they're making the super bowl, but they're gonna have to make the playoffs. And I totally. A couple.

[Jason McIntyre]

You were 100. A little fortunate.

[Rachel Nichols]

They.

[Jason McIntyre]

They happen to lose every close game. But I'm. I want to see what they do with the roster because I'm running a double down. I don't you see the AFC range? It's loaded. Yeah, I don't. I don't know if the Chiefs are getting back to the playoffs next year. Seriously.

[Rachel Nichols]

Oh, man. Again? Again.

[Jason McIntyre]

We'll see. I mean, I think Lamar has an uphill climb as well.

[Rachel Nichols]

I want to. I want to see the rosters where we actually Go in on opening day. Before I start arguing with you over that, let's talk about the Chargers, too. They fired OC Greg Roman after that 163 beating in the wild card round. Jim Harbaugh said it was a tough decision to make, but one he had to do to get the offense going in the right direction. Take a listen.

[Jason McIntyre]

We as an organization need to. Need a fresh start, stimulate a new direction.

[Podcast Announcer/Advertiser]

Justin's tal.

[Jason McIntyre]

Justin's ability. You know, I have no, no questions about that winner all the way. And yeah, it's our responsibility to, to get up to his level and that's. We are continually striving to do that.

[Rachel Nichols]

This was a big deal for Jim Harbaugh because Greg Roman has been with him. Stop after stop. This is someone he was very close to. But the numbers are the numbers, Jason. 12 points total in the two wild card games since Roman has been the coordinator. In fact, not only was it only three points in this game, only one touchdown in those two games, and one of. And the touchdown was 86 yards. So it was just, you know, a throw. You have to look, though, there's other OC jobs around the league. Do you think. Where do you think this Chargers job ranks in terms of.

[Jason McIntyre]

Oh, that's a good question.

[Rachel Nichols]

What the best sort of openings are.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, it's funny.

[Rachel Nichols]

You want me to read them to you?

[Jason McIntyre]

Once you said Roman was with Harbaugh, so he was with him at Stanford. With him. With the Niners.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yes.

[Jason McIntyre]

Then went to John Harbaugh in Baltimore.

[Rachel Nichols]

Oh, which by the way, I mean, Roman could still get a job with the Giants. You know, I don't think it's the oc but it's as some sort of coach that is tough. Family friend, obviously.

[Jason McIntyre]

So offensive. This is a great job. So it's interesting. You could either hire like a hot shot up and coming dude, right? Or you could be like, hey, Mike McDaniel, why don't you come here, get us a couple playoff wins? Do you work your magic, Brian? Dable. Dable or McDaniel would rehab their image instantly with Justin Herbert, right?

[Rachel Nichols]

You think McDaniel needs to rehab his image?

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean, I personally think he should take the Atlanta job, but he came off like he can't command, you know, the. Can't command a locker room, not a. Not a former player, that kind of nonsense.

[Rachel Nichols]

We'll talk about that a little later in the show.

[Jason McIntyre]

But I like McDaniel a lot. What about Cliff Kingsley?

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, I mean, look, I want to read you the open jobs, though, because I want you to say if you are like where you take this, right. If you're one of these guys. So you've got the Bucks, obviously. Baker Mayfield, the Chargers. We know. Herbert, Eagles. Jalen hurts another discussion about him in the meeting this morning. Lions, Jared Goff and the Raiders, of course, will get that draft pick.

[Jason McIntyre]

Oh, that's tough because the golf job is good.

[Rachel Nichols]

Golf job is good.

[Jason McIntyre]

When you would go, Herbert, would you?

[Rachel Nichols]

Okay, that's the thing.

[Jason McIntyre]

Herbert. Yeah.

[Rachel Nichols]

When you fire your. Whoever you have, whatever kind of coach you have for the job, you have to think about, am I going to get someone better? Right. How attractive is this job? I think it's pretty attractive. So your chances of getting someone better are pretty, pretty high.

[Jason McIntyre]

So the only problem with the Eagles job is Sirianni. If they flop next year, he's gone and you're toast and then you're out. So I don't think Harbaugh is going anywhere. They love them.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

I think the Herbert job, probably the best OC job out there, right? Yeah.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, we'll see.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right. Rachel with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the Herd lie news. All right, Philadelphia. I can't tell if it's a coaching problem or a star problem. We'll address that next year on the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, Weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Podcast Announcer/Advertiser]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Almost.

[Podcast Announcer/Advertiser]

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Podcast Announcer/Advertiser]

New year, new goals. And in this economy, a better money plan is more necessary than ever. I am Matt and I'm Joel. We are from the how to Money podcast and every week we help you to spend smarter, save more, and make sense of what's going on out there. If you want 2026 to be the year you finally feel in control of your money, we're here to give you the tools and advice to help you make it happen. Listen to how to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jason McIntyre]

At Charmin, we heard you shouldn't talk about going to the bathroom in public, so we decided to sing about it. Light a candle, pour some wine, grab a roll the soft kind for a little me time. Charmin Ultra Soft smooth tear wavy edges for my rear so let the softness caress your soul. Just relax, you're on a roll. Let her rip. Charmin Ultra soft smooth tear. Charmin Ultra soft smooth hair has the same softness you love now with wavy edges that tear better than the leading one Ply brand. Enjoy the go with Charmin tomorrow on Fox.

[Rachel Nichols]

After dethroning the Defending champs, Christian McCaffrey leads the Niners against Sam Darnold in the top six seeded Seahawks. The Divisional Round playoffs presented by Inuit TurboTax tomorrow, 7:30 Eastern, 4:30 Pacific on Fox.

[Jason McIntyre]

Big game. Bang bang, Niner gang. I kind of a Niners fan now, guys. I don't know. It's a Brock Purdy thing. Interestingly, Niners took down the Eagles last weekend and I was way wrong about that. I lost money on the Eagles. I had Eagles futures. I thought they could go back to back. You know, they win the super bowl last year, that victory over the Chiefs. I'm still beaming from the smashing of Kansas City. But the Eagles are in a weird spot. Man, this is so wacky. I don't really know what to make of it. So I'm sure you guys saw Eagles, Niners on the sideline. There was an incident with like 12 guys on the field. AJ Brown and Sirianni kind of sort of get into a dust up here. Here it is. We got video of it. You see A.J. brown and then you see is that big Dom separating AJ Brown. You don't separate him if they're having a discussion. And then, you know, Sirianni comes back like, I'm not done with you. And it's like, that is not healthy. This is a toxic relationship. Look at that. A.J. brown practically getting in his face. That's not good. Now that was kind of an underplayed story, but the media was asking about it this week. So Howie Roseman widely considered one of the top three GMs in the league. Okay, Howie Roseman took to the mic, and here's what he had to say. It is hard to find great players in the NFL, and AJ Is a great player. I think from my perspective, that's what we're going out and looking for when we go out here in free agency in the draft, is trying to find great players who love football. And he's that. That guy. All right, I'm going to turn back the clock a little bit. So when Chip Kelly got to the Eagles, he got in beef with Howie Roseman. And I'll never forget it, because at the time, I was, you know, writing for this website that I created, and I was all in team Chip Kelly. I saw what he did in Oregon. What does Howie Roseman know? What? Come on. I think even Chip Kelly, I don't know if he's quoted as saying it, but he's like, that's not a football guy. He, like, moved Howie Rosen's office out of the football building. It was ugly. And I was team Chip Kelly. I was wrong. Way wrong. Howie Roseman has done a phenomenal job building the Eagles the last five years. And I read a quote this week, the willingness to change your mind is the ultimate sign of intelligence. Yes. I'm saying, you know what? That's. I'm willing to do that. A lot of people are wedded to their opinions, and they're not coming off of, hey, I see this. I don't care what you say. I. That's what I see. No, you gotta be smarter than that and change your opinion. I've changed my opinion on A.J. brown. Okay? When the Eagles traded for him, when they got him, I was like, this is amazing. He's the greatest thing ever. They go to the super bowl, lose to the Chiefs in a great game. Jalen Hurts was phenomenal. They nearly pulled that off. They get to another super bowl and win it with it. So A.J. brown's in Philly. They go to two Super Bowls. What's not to love? The relationship has gone sour. I'm now officially done. And then people are saying, well, is it an AJ Brown problem or is it a coaching problem? And that's kind of an interesting one because, you know, when things are running hot, like with Ben Johnson in Chicago, everything's fine, everybody's happy. Kumbaya. This is wonderful. Hey, remember in training camp for the Bears, things were not awesome. DJ Moore was unhappy. Caleb and Ben, there was friction. It was tough. They got through it. Everything's fine. Now they're winning. Everything's amazing. So the Eagles get upset by the Niners and the finger pointing is beginning. A.J. brown's a problem. Get him out. Well, they don't have an O.C. well, that's because Jalen hurts. Can't do Jalen hurts. You're the problem. What about Sirianni? How is he somehow escaping blame for this? One of the big problems in Philly, I believe, is the offensive coordinator situation. Five offensive coordinators in six years. How is that sustainable? You cannot win consistently when you're changing your offensive playbook every year. Now, two of them were home runs. Shane Steichen, who's with the Colts now, and Kellen Moore, who was the guy last year when they won the super bowl. And Keller Moore had a pretty good year a bit. Beat all Vegas numbers for the Saints. They finished strong. They feel good about their team. The ones that didn't work, this year's guy, the guy in between, mourn Steichen. I think Brian Johnson was his name. Those were terrible. Those guys are not going to be play callers anytime soon. So what is the issue? And I started looking at, you know, the situation for A.J. brown. I'm like, oh, A.J. brown turns 29 here this summer. Hmm. Okay, let me take a look at the free agent wide receivers. Oh, there are some good ones out there. Mike Evans, I doubt he'd leave Tampa. But, hey, you want to. You want to play for a contender? You want to try to win your division? Rashid Shahid, can you. Can Rashid Shahid give you 65% of A.J. brown? And, oh, by the way, he plays special teams. Shahid has been pretty damn good for the Seahawks. Hollywood Brown, don't love him. Always hurt. This guy like Juwan Jennings, Eagles know him pretty well. Just threw a touchdown pass against him. And then Wanda Robinson, young guy for the Giants. Not an amazing group. A.J. brown's better than all of them. But A.J. brown is clearly toxic in the locker room. Does he have beef with Hertz? Hertz is saying the right things. He clearly has beef with Sirianni. He's reading books on the sideline. I think the. I think the Eagles have an A.J. brown problem and a Sirianni problem. Free solution. You trade AJ Brown, you get whatever the hell you can. I like what Howie Roseman said. I was very political about it, about how, hey, he's a great player. It's tough to find great players. Come on. Seahawks draft JSN. And in a year, literally one year, they trade DK Metcalf. JSN's are number one and he's like a top two receiver in the league. He might win offensive player of the year. Like you can find receivers. So here's my pie in the sky for Eagles. Quick solution, Rachel. You can weigh in. You may not like this. I would get off A.J. brown. Draft a receiver. Find somebody a free agency. If that doesn't fix things, I'm booting Sirianni next year. And here's my target. Are you ready, Rachel?

[Rachel Nichols]

Okay.

[Jason McIntyre]

My guy, Marcus Freeman at Notre Dame. So I know everybody loves Marcus Freeman. They quietly changed some things. They're now accepting regular transfers, not just grad transfers. Brian Kelly tried that. They wouldn't let him.

[Rachel Nichols]

Right.

[Jason McIntyre]

They're doing that for Freeman because they know he's in high, high demand. Freeman's got a stud quarterback, C.J. carr, Lloyd Carr's grandson. And I think if they win the title or go to the playoff, there's a chance Freeman leaves and goes to the NFL. That would be my belief. Give him one more year. I don't think Sirianni is long for Philly. I think the fans are out on him. I don't know. Has he lost the locker room?

[Rachel Nichols]

He won a Super bowl years ago.

[Jason McIntyre]

What have you done for me lately.

[Rachel Nichols]

Wrong with professional sports? Right now we are getting rid of coaches like they are Kleenex throwing out in the trash can. Not that if you don't have that stability. You were just talking about it with the offensive continuity.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Rachel Nichols]

If you don't have that stability in the building and that voice over and over again, you are going to have problems. And you establish a culture where everyone's in and out the door. In a year or two, players don't know who they can trust. I just, I think this in professional sports, in the NFL, certainly, we saw it this year. How many head coaching openings have we had? And it makes the guys like Mike Tomlin, it makes the guys like John Harbaugh, who was with that team for 18 years, more rare and special because they were able to be there for so long.

[Jason McIntyre]

So the counter for Tomlin would be. Yes, great coach. The last seven playoff games they got crushed. Like, do we need to change things? Or Tomlin stepped down. So it's not like they shut them out. And you're right, it's probably a little irrational after just two years post year.

[Rachel Nichols]

No. Last year he won the Super Bowl.

[Jason McIntyre]

Next year, if he flies, you are.

[Rachel Nichols]

Already firing him for the job you think he's going to do next year even though he only won The super bowl last year.

[Jason McIntyre]

So, Rachel, if he hits the market, do you think Nick Sirianni is, like, instantly getting a job? Yeah, probably a head coaching job. Yes.

[Rachel Nichols]

Because in this league, there seems like there's 10 head coaching openings every year. Every year. So. Yeah. Is some team that has not had success in a very long time going to be, oh, this guy won a Super bowl two years ago. Yes. But I, I just. I hate seeing this. We see it in the NBA, too. We see it in a bunch of other sports right now. I just. I don't get it. The co. The coach is supposed to be the stable one. You.

[Jason McIntyre]

You could be honest. You want him to stay because he's not a good coach. And you like Washington. Dan Quinn could be on next year. Hey, you get rid of both coordinators now. You have some news on the Harbaugh situation with the Giants. We're expecting it to be locked down, but yes.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, Adam Schefter tweeting the Giants and John Harbaugh still working through the details of their contract. Not done yet. We did expect it to be kind of a big announcement. Be done yet. Schefter says the final issues aren't over money, it's over language. And that a source told them there's no derailments. The talks just continue. I thought that was interesting. Only because over language can mean a lot of things. Once you are sort of set, you're going to get paid a tremendous amount of money. It's probably not about the money you're going to pay. One million less. One. One million more, whatever. But is this about control over some of the roster? Is this language about. I mean, what. What is the language about? Obviously, we don't know yet, but whether this is a big deal or not or a big stumbling block or not, we'll have to see because over language kind of sounds like it's just, you know, crossing T's and dotting I's. Over language is usually the hardest part of a contract. Once you've sort of got big.

[Jason McIntyre]

I will say I did find it weird. And again, I don't know which reporters are plugged in. You know, they get their stuff. You know how this game works. So early in the week, it was like Harbaugh is going to take his time talking to all these people. And then within like two days, John Harbaugh in Washington, I was like, or New York Giants. And I was like, that. That was fast. What happened? And I wonder if this is the Giants thinking they got him and they rush it out to every reporter. And now, are we sure this is buttoned up? I. I don't know.

[Rachel Nichols]

I think. I think it's good faith on both sides. I think they genuinely thought they got him. But Harbaugh is in a great bargaining position now, especially now that this news is kind of leaked out that it's all but done right, because the Giants can't afford to have him walk away. You know, they did a great job, the Giants, putting the full court press on Harbaugh. You know, they had the ownership there. They had him talk to Tom Coughlin. They had him. Even Brian Dabel said, I recommend the Giants as a place to work.

[Jason McIntyre]

That that was odd.

[Rachel Nichols]

Uh, so, you know, they knew they wanted this guy. I think he. I think he's going to be great for the organization. They need that stability. I think the ownership is strong, and that was one of Harbaugh's main sort of objectives, is to find strong ownership and a quarterback he believes in. And apparently Jackson Dart sat down with him as well, so they all sat down with him over language. We'll have to see what that means.

[Jason McIntyre]

By the way, I saw a fun stat that no coach who has won a Super bowl with one team has gone on to win with the same second team. So Giants fans, all excited. Hasn't happened. Maybe John Harbaugh is the first. All right, coming up next. Oh, boy. Next hour. I'm very fired up about this. We're ranking the quarterbacks on divisional weekend. We'll go eight to one. You probably know who one is, but three through eight, This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.