THE HERD - Hour 1 - The Cowboys keep shooting themselves in the foot, the relationship between Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson, Scott Pioli

Summary

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The Herd with Colin Cowherd – August 28, 2025

Hour 1: The Cowboys’ Dysfunction, Caleb Williams & Ben Johnson Dynamic, Scott Pioli Interview

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Overview

This episode, hosted by Jason McIntyre ("Jay") and Rachel (full names not given), dives into the ongoing chaos surrounding the Dallas Cowboys—including the latest Micah Parsons contract drama—contrasting styles between Chicago Bears head coach Ben Johnson and quarterback Caleb Williams, and features a wide-ranging conversation with former NFL GM Scott Pioli on college football, player contracts, and team building.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Dallas Cowboys’ Culture & the Micah Parsons Situation

Main Theme:
Jay and Rachel break down the ongoing off-field turmoil in Dallas, focusing on the contract standoff with star pass rusher Micah Parsons, and criticize the Cowboys’ “reality TV” approach under Jerry Jones.

Cowboys’ Dysfunction: Why All the Drama?

• The Cowboys are constantly in the media spotlight despite the Eagles being reigning champs and more successful:
  “The media remains obsessed with the wretched Wobegon Dallas Cowboys. Why would that be? Well, wouldn’t you know it, but yesterday Micah Parsons, their star holdout... showed up at an airport... getting a second opinion on his back. He’s not going to be at practice this weekend? Well, that ain’t good.” (Jay, 03:56–05:11)
• Parsons filed a contract grievance; his older brother posts, “It’s going to get ugly. Put your gloves on. This is going 12 rounds.” (05:44)
• Cowboys’ futility: Only NFC team not to reach a conference championship since 2010.
• Jay’s assessment:
  “Jerry Jones is not serious about actual football. The Eagles... are building a juggernaut and Jerry Jones is out here creating reality TV shows. You’ve heard of Love Island. Cowboys, they got Star Island.” (06:56)
• Negotiating history:
  “Every one of these holdouts end in the Cowboys capitulating... Every CD [Lamb], Zeke, Zach—deals get done.” (J. Mack and Jay, 07:54–08:12)
• On the risk to Parsons:
  “Can you imagine the panic Rayshawn Slater would have right now if he were playing for the Cowboys and Jerry was jerking him around? And then he tears his patella tendon in practice and he's out for the year. But, bro, you didn’t get your extension. You just cost yourself a ton of money.” (Jay, 11:09)

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2. The Chicago Bears: Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson’s Relationship

Main Theme:
How will new coach Ben Johnson’s structured style mesh with the improvisational flair of QB Caleb Williams? Is the communication coming from Chicago cause for concern?

Contrasting Styles—A Challenge?

• Rachel outlines the key stylistic mismatch:
  “Ben Johnson is a very precise coach... And Caleb Williams has always been more of a freelancer... So for me, the question is how do those two styles merge and can they live together?” (Rachel, 14:58)
• Jay compares vibes:
  “If you compare what’s being said in Chicago, what's being said about Caleb Williams, with the messaging in New York about another rookie quarterback, Jackson Dart—one’s very positive and the other is, Ben Johnson’s... not.” (Jay, 15:41–16:01)
• Ben Johnson’s candid approach:
  “The standard has been set... Is he going to be a finished product here in year two? No... He’s going to take his bumps. But as long as we’re not making the same mistake twice, we’ll be just fine.” (Ben Johnson, as quoted by J. Mack, 24:59)
• Jay worries about the tone:
  “There’s a lot of negativity... a grace period, going to take his bumps. Just a lot of not positive stuff.” (Jay, 25:38)

Will it Work?

• Rachel:
  “It’s hard to tell whether this is just a bumpy start of two styles coming together... once they’ve got it, it’s going to be great. Or if it’s an indication on Caleb Williams.” (Rachel, 26:54)

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3. College Football: Arch Manning Debut & Bill Belichick at UNC

• Arch Manning will debut as starting QB for Texas against Ohio State—an unusually tough opener.
  “Are you going to take into account who he’s playing against or just how he does?” (Rachel, 29:44)
• Jay:
  “Even if he’s terrible... this is against Ohio State... But if he goes in there, throws for 300 yards and they win, this hype machine is going to get out of control.” (Jay, 30:15)
• Bill Belichick’s new college coaching gig at UNC draws on lessons he learned from the University of Washington—where he studied how to blend college and pro concepts, and poached assistants and players.
  Rachel: “He didn’t go to Alabama or Ohio State, he went to the smaller program...this is more of what I want to do.” (34:04)

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4. Brock Purdy’s Rise: Comparing to Drew Brees

• Vernon Davis compares Purdy to Drew Brees.
  Jay: “Drew Brees? That’s high praise. But I like Purdy—underdog, seventh round pick... just been so good.”
• Rachel: “First 26 games—Purdy has more wins, more accurate, more yards, better TD-to-pick margin, higher passer rating than Joe [Montana] or Steve [Young].” (Rachel, 32:23)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Cowboys’ priorities:
  “Jerry Jones is out here creating reality TV shows.” (Jay, 06:56)
• Micah Parsons’ family’s warning:
  “It’s going to get ugly. Put your gloves on. This is going 12 rounds.” (Micah Parsons’ brother, 05:44)
• On how winning organizations handle extensions:
  “All those guys... got their extensions. Micah Parsons is the only player in this draft to have three all pro seasons.” (Jay, 12:15)
• On Caleb & Ben Johnson:
  “For me, the question... is how do those two styles merge and can they live together?” (Rachel, 14:58)
• On Brock Purdy:
  “I like the cut of his jib... I’m going to be a fan. I’m going to follow him.” (Jay, 31:38)
• On Bill Belichick’s new college approach:
  “He called Washington a ‘template to his program’... the style of their mixing of college and pro convinced him he could do the same thing at North Carolina.” (Rachel, 34:04)

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Extended Interview: Scott Pioli, NFL Front Office Veteran (41:30–53:40)

Scott Pioli, former NFL GM, discusses the changing landscape of college football, player contracts (esp. the Parsons saga), and lessons from managing quarterback transitions.

On College Football’s Player Pay Revolution

• Scott consults for NCAA programs:
  “They're trying to figure out their revenue sharing... how they're going to pay student athletes, not only in football, but in every sport.” (Scott Pioli, 42:56)
• He supports athletes being paid, but urges rules that “make some of the crazy a little bit more certain.” (Scott Pioli, 43:13)
• Transfer portal debate:
  “Coaches change jobs, too... We need to put things in that make it more sensible and easier for them to understand why they're doing [it], not just because life's gotten too tough and I'm not starting.” (Scott Pioli, 44:12)

On Dallas/Micah Parsons’ Contract

• “Micah wants to get paid. Micah should get paid... Jerry wants to pay him. They just have to figure this thing out.” (Scott Pioli, 46:12)
• Advice for both sides:
  “Best thing to do is to say nothing publicly... If you talk publicly, someone's going to say something that hurts the other side.” (46:12)
• On the dangers of delay:
  “If you pay someone early, it's going to be at a discount... The earlier that you get a deal done, the more potential savings.” (Scott Pioli, 48:01)
• On why Jerry Jones resists that:
  “He's a billionaire for a reason... He's done something right... why he does it this way, I don't know.” (Scott Pioli, 49:35)

On Brock Purdy’s “Game Manager” Tag

• “A game manager isn't a bad thing... that's part of the job of being the quarterback.” (Scott Pioli, 50:43)

• On quarterback development:
  “There's different kinds of game managers. With Brady [early], he was still developing... he was surrounded by good people and good players. That made his development better.” (51:27)

• On Purdy/Shanahan:
  “Kyle Shanahan is doing with Brock Purdy... quarterbacks need to end up in the right situations and the right marriage.” (Scott Pioli, 52:35)

• “Look at how many games he’s won... did they lose you games? Are they doing dumb things in order for you to lose games? That’s not what you’re looking for, and Brock doesn’t do that.” (Scott Pioli, 53:06)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |---------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------| | Cowboys & Micah Parsons Drama / NFL Team-Building | 03:17–14:58 | | Bears: Caleb Williams & Ben Johnson Relationship | 14:58–28:53 | | Arch Manning Debut / Belichick at UNC (College Football) | 29:02–36:48 | | Brock Purdy Discourse (Drew Brees, SF QB legacy) | 31:11–33:54 | | Interview: Scott Pioli on College Football & NFL Contracts | 41:30–53:40 |

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Summary Table – Main Takeaways

| Topic | Main Takeaway | |-------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------| | Cowboys Management | Dysfunction defined by “headline chasing” over football results.| | Micah Parsons Contract | Only elite '21 draft pick w/o extension—team risks losing trust. | | Bears: Williams-Johnson | Unclear fit between QB’s instincts & coach’s structure. | | College Football Changes | NIL & transfer portal drive pro-style athlete management. | | Brock Purdy | Early comparison to legends; “game manager” is smart, not bad. | | Scott Pioli’s View | Paying stars early is best; public drama is bad for both sides. |

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Tone & Style of Show

The episode mixes passionate critique (especially toward Jerry Jones and Cowboys management), analytical breakdowns (Bears/Johnson/Williams), and features practical, behind-the-scenes perspective from Scott Pioli. Humorous asides and self-deprecation (especially from Jay) keep the tone lively and relatable (“I don’t hang out with anybody. I don’t have a life.” – Jay, 33:54).

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In summary:
The episode offers a sharp, behind-the-curtain look at chronic Cowboys dysfunction, the challenge of marrying Caleb Williams’ style to Ben Johnson’s coaching in Chicago, and practical wisdom from Scott Pioli about player, team, and front office strategy in both pro and college football. If you're a football fan looking for context and insight on the season's biggest storylines, this episode is essential listening.

Transcript

[Rachel]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[J. Mack]

This is Jonas Knox from Two Pros and a Cup of Joe and Builders. Trust Ferguson Home to bring innovation and efficiency to every project with top products, expert support and tools that allow you to browse, organize, order and work with clients. Ferguson Home has custom solutions for every pro. Discover an unparalleled selection of products from the best brands to help you create spaces that stand out. Find your local Ferguson Home showroom or visit FergusonHome.com to explore the best selection of kitchen, bath and lighting products and get personalized expert support every step of the way. Bring your vision to Ferguson Home where it all comes together. Shop top brands like Kohler or find your local [e-mail] Running a business online.

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[J. Mack]

I'm Buzz Knight, the host of the Taking a Walk podcast, and join me for an upcoming episode with Seth MacFarlane, the creator of Family Guy, talking about his new Frank Sinatra music project.

[Buzz Knight]

Anyone who loves music would salivate over something like this. The biggest question for us was what's in these boxes? Really, the most thrilling part was hiring an orchestra and just playing what was in these boxes.

[J. Mack]

Listen to Taking a walk on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rachel]

Hey everyone, it's me, Katie Couric. Did you know that I recently joined Substack? Very exciting. It's where I'll be sharing my unfiltered conversations with the people everyone's talking about. I'll also tell you what I'm reading what I'm watching, what's making me crazy, and what's giving me hope. If you like deep dives, hot takes, and real talk, you're in the right place. Search Katie Couric on Substack and hit subscribe. I'll be there, reporting live, most likely in my pajamas. See you there.

[J. Mack]

Thanks for listening to the Heard podcast.

[Jay]

Be sure to catch us live every.

[J. Mack]

Weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon.

[Jay]

To 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

[J. Mack]

Now, let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.

[Jay]

We are back. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. A beautiful Thursday here on the Herd out in sunny Los Angeles. It's me, Jason McIntyre, barely surviving. I mean, geez, they're coming for me online, Rachel, with picks and feathers. Whatever they say. Whatever they say, they're coming after me, but I'm still surviving. And, Rachel, we got a pretty damn big.

[Rachel]

I was going to say there's a lot going on.

[Jay]

There is a lot. We are one week, exactly one week from today, NFL season. We get packers. Not Packers. I'm sorry. We get Eagles.

[J. Mack]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

And Cowboys.

[Jay]

And Cowboys. Yeah.

[J. Mack]

Oh, it's interesting.

[Rachel]

Is there anything going on with the Cowboys?

[Jay]

You know, let's just dive right into that, shall we? Remember, we are one week away from the start of the NFL season and a week from today, it's Eagles Cowboys. And the Eagles are defending champs. They got the best roster in the league. They're stacked and nobody is talking about them. For some reason. It's all about the Dallas Cowboys. Jerry Jones likes it that way. He loves it that way. By the way, do you guys remember what happened last year in the Eagles Cowboys games? They met twice now. Dak missed both games. Well, let me just check here, okay? 346 was the first one that was the Eagles winning. And then it was 41 7. Jalen Hurts, had a concussion, did not play. So it's a little early for math, but I'm 75 to 13. The Eagles smoked the Cowboys last year. It was not competitive in any way, shape or form. Yet the media remains obsessed with the wretched Wobegon Dallas Cowboys. Why would that be? Well, wouldn't you know it, but yesterday Micah Parsons, their star hold out, hold in, I don't know, showed up at an airport. Where's he going? He doesn't have to go to practice. Well, Micah Parsons is going to get a second opinion on his back. There's Micah at the. I believe it's a Dallas Fort Worth airport. You know, tough to miss. Michael Parsons, a large individual. Somebody snapped this photo and next thing you know, it's, wait a minute. So he's not going to be at practice this weekend? Pivotal practices right before the season. Well, that ain't good because we got everybody saying, ah, it's going to be fine. He's going to show up. But it didn't stop there, folks. Micah filed a grievance against the Cowboys over his fifth year option. And it continued the news in Dallas. Jerry Jones loves this. Right, Jerry, we'll get to you in a sec, buddy. There's more. Micah Parsons older brother went on social media yesterday, and I want to make sure I quote him correctly. It's going to get ugly. Put your gloves on. This is going 12 rounds now. I don't know if he's talking about like a Jake Paul fight coming up or what's happening. Maybe it's his brother who's going toe to toe with Jerry Jones. And folks, the more I look at this, the more I just get disappointed and sad for Cowboys fans because without question, this is the most futile organization in the nfc. A staggering stat I'm sure you guys have seen since 2010. Every team in the NFC has made the conference championship game. Yes, the pathetic Panthers, the sad sack Saints, they've made a conference championship game since 2010. There's only one team in the entire conference that hasn't. And if you look at the bottom of the screen there, it's the Dallas Cowboys. 19, 1995 was the last time they made the conference championship game. 15 years behind everyone else in the conference. That, to me, is a very clear signal. Jerry Jones is not serious about actual football. The Eagles, who they're playing next Thursday, they're crushing free agency every year. They're crushing the draft. Howie Roseman is building a juggernaut and Jerry Jones is out here creating reality TV shows. You've heard of Love Island Cowboys, they got Star Island. Keeping up with the Kardashians. What about keeping up with the Joneses? Yet somehow the media seems to think, wow, this happens every year. Here's Matt Mosley earlier this week talking about how, hey, Micah's gonna be there week one.

[J. Mack]

Remember who Jerry is and remember how much he loves the pageantry and the circus of all of this. And the last minute get the deal signed is kind of a fun thing for him. Dak got one of his deals done the morning of the first game. CD and Zeke's were done four or five days.

[Jay]

Every one of these holdouts end in.

[J. Mack]

The Cowboys capitulating, right? I mean, name me one that they've won. Like, well, look at the Cowboys. They, they, they won this negotiation. Zeke, Zach. I mean, every cd, they all end in the deals getting done.

[Jay]

So the worst part is Jerry thinks this is good business because he's not serious about football. He's like, oh, our names are in the headlines. I mean, they play at a stadium called Jerry World. I mean, the guy's obsessed with himself. That's not going to translate to building a contender in the modern era. It's not going to happen. And on top of all this, there was a couple reports saying, well, wait a minute. The Green Bay packers are interested in Micah Parsons. And everybody gets all excited about that. I'm like, whoa, whoa, let's be, let's pause for a sec. That ain't happening. I mean, Jerry, there's no way he's trading Micah. We all know and think, yeah, he's going to cave at the last minute, because that's what he does. He chickens out. He talks a tough game, and then chickens out and signs a deal. So here's Tyler Dunn talking about Jerry's history with his stars recently. This is headed toward opening night. Jerry Jones is going to know all eyes are on the NFL. His NFL. He's the most powerful person in the NFL. And then that's when the news breaks. They don't care about winning. They just. They just don't. If the Dallas Cowboys prioritized winning, they wouldn't lock up Daka year ahead of time. CD Lama year ahead of time, Micah Parsons.

[J. Mack]

A year.

[Jay]

A year ahead of time. They just jerk around their best players because they can. They, they think they're the smartest people in the room. They don't modernize the franchise. And if you're a Cowboys fan out there, I, I, I, I don't know. I guess the only, the only thing you could do is not show up to the stadium. And that's why I say, you know, Jerry's kind of unserious about the actual football product. I don't think he cares. He says, well, I want to win a Super Bowl. I want to, but the actions are not backing that up. And it's got to be disappointing if you're a Cowboys fan. So let me address one of the points that Dunn made yesterday, because a lot of people out there are thinking, hey, you know, actually, Jay, Jerry Jones Has a point. Micah's under contract for three more years. He's got to show up and play. And that's just. That's. That's not how it works. I'm going to turn back to 20, 21, okay? That's what Michael Parsons was drafted. I remember that draft fondly because as a Jets fan all season leading up to that, we were in position to get Trevor Lawrence. I was so geeked, all excited. And then the jets, like morons, end up beating the Rams. I believe it was out here at Sofi in December. Cost themselves Trevor Lawrence and have to settle for Zach Wilson. We know Zach Wilson. I mean, I think he's working at a coffee bean out here in Los Angeles. However, that draft had a lot of other good players who went the first round. And we just so happen to have a full screen of all that. Those 20, 21 draft picks. Take a look at the final column. Did they sign their extension? These are all guys drafted the exact same day as Micah Parsons. Trevor Lawrence in Jacksonville got his extension. It's done. No drama. Jamar Chase, arguably the best receiver in the league, got it done. No drama, no holdouts, no headlines. Jalen Waddle, Miami got his deal. Penne Sewell, the great offensive lineman in Detroit, J.C. horn, who's been injured a ton, and Carolina still got his extension done. Patrick Certain, defensive player of the year, Devonte Smith of the Eagles. Boy, Eagles. Cowboys. Hey. Devonte Smith in Micah's draft class got his extension. Guys, I had to look this up. Seventeen months ago, he got his extension. He was drafted the same day as Michael Parsons. And we all say the Eagles are the most well run organization in the NFL right now. He got his deal done. And you look at the very end of that list and there's a gentleman named Rayshawn Slater who went to the Chargers. Okay? July 27 this summer, Rayshawn Slater, four year, $114 million deal. Chargers locked him up. Great contract for an offensive lineman. Less than two weeks later, he tears his patella tendon out for the season. But guess what? Because he got extended, he doesn't have to worry about anything. Can you imagine the panic Rayshawn Slater would have right now if he were playing for the Cowboys and Jerry was jerking him around? And then he tears his patella tendon in practice and he's out for the year. But, bro, you didn't get your extension. You just cost yourself a ton of money. He got taken care of. No worries. Slater. Hey, man, get healthy. You don't have a damn thing to worry about. We don't need you to rush back because you got paid. We want you to come back fully strong next season. Easy. Well, enter Micah Parsons. He doesn't have his extension. You really think Micah Parsons wants to go out there and play and jeopardize an injury like Slater with no security? And don't tell me, well, he's got the fifth year option or they can franchise tag him. That ain't security. Security is a four year deal with 91 million guaranteed, which is what Slater got. And Jerry, for some reason, is reluctant to give him that money. And at the bottom of that full screen graphic, I don't know if we can get it again. Our guys put it in gold lettering. Okay? Of all those guys that got their extensions, Micah Parsons is the only player in this draft to have three all pro seasons. So you could argue, you know, Jamar Chase has been great. Sewell's been awesome. Micah Parsons has been the best player from his draft. That's a legitimate, credible argument. And I know, hey, Jay, what's he done in the playoffs? Okay, guys, what's Trevor Lawrence done in the playoffs? You know, Penn A. Sewell, how did he do against Washington? Patrick certain, like, you could play that game all day. But the reality is Jerry Jones is just unserious about football and he doesn't truly care about winning because if he did, his actions would align with the smarter teams in the league like the Philadelphia Eagles, who they're going to be playing next Thursday. Now, the spread for that is seven. I would not be surprised if that ticked up to seven and a half. As we get closer, it's increasingly looking like Micah Parsons is not going to play. His brother's on social media, he's at an airport. Micah's getting a second opinion on his back. This is headed toward disaster if Jerry doesn't step in, say, hey, hey, hey. Okay. Just kidding. We had a lot of fun with that. Now let's get down to football. Let's get down to brass tacks, because I'm just. It's. You got to be disappointed if you're a Dallas Cowboys fan with how Jerry has handled this. So we have a good show today. Let's upgrade to great, actually. I know Bears fans are unhappy with me. Somehow Rachel was able to escape any enmity from the Bears. Former Bears coming after me online. Even though we're in alignment on what's happening with the Chicago team and Ben Johnson and his quarterback.

[Rachel]

Well, I think it's more of a stylistic issue. Right. Whereas you maybe think of it's more of is he good enough issue in my mind. Ben Johnson is a very precise coach, right? I mean, everything he did with the Lions, the mad scientists, to be a mad scientist, you have to have pretty insight, you know, pretty concise ingredients on exactly what you want to do, when you want to do it, how you want to do it. And Caleb Williams has always been more of a freelancer, and by the way, that's not a bad quality. Some of the best quarterbacks we have going right now can freelance out there, but it's not necessarily what Ben is used to when you're coming from Jared Goff, because he's not like that. So for me, the question throughout this camp and now going into the season is how do those two styles merge and can they live together?

[Jay]

So we'll be talking a little bit about the Bears coming up next. And listen, if you compare what's being said in Chicago, what's being with what's being said about another rookie quarterback in the league right now. I know Caleb's second year, but one of them's very positive and the other is Ben Johnson. So that's next here on the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

[J. Mack]

Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis, and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio and of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture, stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Kobe. Know Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich running a business online.

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[J. Mack]

Hi, I'm Buzz Knight, the host of the Taking a Walk podcast, and join me for an upcoming episode with Seth MacFarlane, the creator of Family Guy, talking about his new Frank Sinatra music project.

[Buzz Knight]

Anyone who loves music would salivate over something like this. The biggest question for us was, what's in these boxes? There were a few unplayed gems that we had been alerted to by Charlie Pinion of Sinatra Enterprises. So we knew that certain songs like Shadow of your Smile, which actually is not on this record, it'll be on the next one.

[J. Mack]

Seth MacFarlane, Don Rickles went up to.

[Buzz Knight]

Frank Sinatra and he said, listen, I'm going to be having dinner with this lovely woman and I, you know, would you come over and say hi? And just so you know, because I feel like if she sees that I know you, it's going to make me look really cool and, you know, I might have a good night. During the middle of dinner, Frank walks over and says, don, hi, how are you? And Don goes, frank, please, I'm in the middle of dinner.

[J. Mack]

Seth MacFarlane on the taking a Walk podcast. Listen to Takin a walk on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Who cares about truth when the lies more entertaining.

[Rachel]

Hey everybody, I'm Angela Rye, co host of Native Lampa with Tiffany Cross and Andrew Gillum. Through the lens of politics and culture, we talk with you every week. And to make sense of this madness.

[Jay]

I've been telling Angela, I don't even know how to fight back right now. So what I'm focused on is just looking out for ourselves. That's the truth.

[J. Mack]

We're having the same debates that American households are having all over the country.

[Rachel]

Rest is certainly a form of self care, but if you are watching your full neighbors starve, not be able to pay bills, your rest is selfish.

[Jay]

But the thing is, Angela, this is not the mess we created. So I do understand black folks feeling like, you know what, y' all got it. We're like family, but we disagree all, all the time. And we love when our listeners chime in what would happen if we built our own little Wakandan communities in the rural South.

[Buzz Knight]

Tiffany, do not run to no rural South.

[J. Mack]

I don't know what you're on.

[Jay]

What our audience is asking is. Okay, fine. You want me to stop resting? What specifically are you asking me to do? Stay informed and take action. Listen to Nativeland Pod on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome home, y'.

[J. Mack]

All.

[Jay]

Hola.

[Rachel]

It's honey German. And my podcast, Gracias, Come Again is back. This season, we're going even deeper into the world of music and entertainment with raw and honest conversations with some of your favorite Latin artists and celebrities. You didn't have to audition?

[J. Mack]

No, I didn't audition. I haven't auditioned in, like, over 25 years.

[Rachel]

Oh, wow. That's a real G talk right there.

[J. Mack]

Oh, yeah.

[Rachel]

We've got some of the biggest actors, musicians, content creators, and culture shifters sharing their real stories of failure and success. You were destined to be a star. We talk all about what's viral and trending with a little bit of Cheeseman, a lot of laughs, and those amazing vividas you've come to expect. And of course, we'll explore deeper topics dealing with identity struggles and all the issues affecting our Latin community. You feel like you get a little whitewashed because you have to do the code switching.

[J. Mack]

I won't say whitewash because at the end of the day, you know, I'm me. Yeah, but the whole pretending and co, you know, it takes a toll on you.

[Rachel]

Listen to the new season of grass has come again as part of Michael Tura Podcast Network. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jay]

You are now entering the no Bull zone sponsored by credible great rates with none of the bull Chicago Bears folks. Boy, we talked futility cowboys, futile bears. I don't know. We will see. So, you know, I like Caleb Williams. I liked him coming out of USC I like the potential that I saw from him. I didn't quite think face of the NFL like some folks did but clearly the guy has some skills. The escapability, the improvisation, throwing on the run. Like there's a lot to like about Caleb Williams. So he comes into his rookie year. We know Eberfluss and company were really gassing him up, almost too positive an upbeat. And then it quickly went downhill and Caleb was kind of on an island by himself. The new regime is Ben Johnson and this is interesting, I don't know that much about Ben Johnson. He was kind of a quiet behind the scenes guy, really was in demand for his offensive creativity. But you know with some of the great coaches you learn that Belichick, okay, his dad, you know, a hardcore football guy, assistant coach all his life was, you know, grew up in Annapolis, Maryland and Belichick was breathing football the whole time. We know about Nick Saban and West Virginia and all the coal mining stuff. Like we know the hardscrabble upbringing of some of these all time coaches. We even know a little bit about Brian Dabel's background in New York. I don't know anything about Ben Johnson. It's. There just isn't a ton about his entire life. So I don't know what he is like as a coach, as a person. I just don't. I don't think many people do. This is first go round but I'm listening to the messaging coming out of New York about their young quarterback Jackson Dart and I can't help but think it's the entire opposite of what we're hearing. The messaging from Ben Johnson regarding his guy Caleb Williams. And I know Bears fans got upset with me yesterday, oh, you're a hater and all this nonsense, but forget about what I'm saying. Listen to Joe Shane, the GM of the Giants talking about his rookie quarterback Jackson Dart who ain't even going to start. Okay, he's maybe the backup, I don't know, third string. But this is the messaging on their rookie quarterback Jackson Dart. I think Dave just said it a million times. Russ is our quarterback. So that's what we're rolling with. And the timeline will be the timeline. However it works out with rookie quarterbacks. I would just, I would always say how long it's going to take them to get up to speed and be able to go out and execute it. It's one thing to be able to learn in the classroom and regurgitate it, but to go out and actually execute it and do it quickly and correctly, I would say Jackson, you know, impressed me in terms of. Not that he couldn't do it, or we didn't think he could, but impressed me in terms of how quick he was able to pick it up and actually go execute and play fast. Jackson Dart. Okay. Nobody who covers the draft or puts together mock drafts had Jackson Dart as the second quarterback. Take it just. It wasn't a thing. If you had odds on that in Vegas, congratulations. You are wealthy right now. Not powerball wealthy, but you did good for yourself. So now you go to Ben Johnson. And I know he's not dealing with a rookie, but you could argue he's dealing with a rookie because it was such a bad rookie year for him. Here's Ben Johnson on Caleb. Remember what you just heard about Joe Shane, the gm, on Jackson Dart.

[J. Mack]

The standard has been set. The bar has been set high. He has said that he wants to be not just one of the best top five quarterbacks in this league, but he wants to have a legacy that lasts for a long time. And so we're coaching him that way. We're approaching it that way. That's not going to change. Is he going to be a finished product here year two? No, he's going to continue to get better year in and year out. And it's a process, and so we're very clear on that. You know, there is a little bit of grace here as we, as we go through it. We know he's learning. He's going to take his bumps. But at the same time, as long as we're not making the same mistake twice, we're going to be right on track and we'll be just fine.

[Jay]

Again, I'm not, like, analyzing every sentence, but there's a lot of negativity. Hey, there's going to be a grace period. He's going to take his bumps. Like, just a lot of not positive stuff. Meanwhile, in New York. Hey, we love Jackson Dart. Oh, my gosh. He's ahead of schedule. Blah, blah, blah. Like, you know, Caleb and his family, they pay attention to the media. Okay? Caleb's family was very close to the writer leading up to the draft where they told the writer, yeah, we don't want to be here. Like, I think you got to be careful with what you're saying. Ben Johnson and I know that even former Bears players right now are like, we good, we're fine. He's gonna be the best quarterback. That's maybe possible, but I just don't like what I'm hearing in Chicago now. Rachel had a good point. Yesterday or two days ago about how Ben Johnson held him out of week one in the preseason. Obviously he played in other games. I don't think he looked great. And, yeah, there's a learning curve. But you know who did look great is Jackson Dart in New York. And again, I don't think Jackson Dart's like, going to be some Pro Bowler or Hall of Famer. Caleb Williams supposed to be big time. Rachel. Maybe I'm on an island here, but I don't. I don't love this early vibes on Caleb Williams.

[Rachel]

I mean, look, clearly at the beginning of the preseason, he didn't think that Caleb going out there was in Caleb's best interest. Right. Even though there was all this controversy, why isn't he playing? What does that really mean? Is Caleb in trouble? You know, is he really not that good? That talk was preferable in Ben Johnson's eyes to him going out there and screwing the pooch in a way that would make the talk even more substantive about whether he was good or bad. So we don't know if actually that's what would have happened. But that was clearly Johnson's opinion about what would have happened because he said him so, and he said he needs more time to get ready. So it's hard to tell whether this is just sort of a bumpy start of two styles coming together and Johnson coming in and having all these ideas. It's the first time as a head coach, right. So you sit back for 20 years and think, these are all the things I'm going to do when I finally get my shot. And Caleb's kind of on the other end of that. Right. So it's hard to tell if this is just the way it's beginning because you've got someone with a bunch of ideas and a quarterback who frankly didn't have much coaching prior to this. So it's sort of hard to get all the pieces to fit together. And once they've got it, it's going to be great. Or if it's an indication on Caleb Williams. Yeah, we don't know yet.

[Jay]

The most recent example, and it's not apples to apples, but Sean Payton goes to Denver. He's got his veteran quarterback in, Russell Wilson. Russ had the run of the place the year prior. He's got an office. He's got a great parking spot. Peyton comes in. Yeah, that's all squashed. And they butted heads. And I listen, people won't admit it, but I'm pretty sure Ben and Caleb are butting heads a little bit. Caleb is, I mean this guy was a five star recruit. He goes to Oklahoma. Supplant, Spencer Rattler. Hey, you're going to usc. Lincoln, I'm coming with you. Wins a superstar, winning everything. Number one pick, Cotto last year. I just, I'm very curious to see how this shakes out. First month. Remember Tyson Bagent? Got a surprising little contract there. Yeah, what like a week ago, two.

[Rachel]

Weeks ago, Couple weeks ago, yeah. It's a great story on its own, by the way.

[Jay]

Yes, indeed. All right, let's go to Rachel with the news.

[J. Mack]

No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herdline news.

[Rachel]

Arch Banning will make his highly, highly anticipated debut as a Longhorn's unquestioned starter on Saturday at Ohio State right here on Fox. Obviously he's had relatively little experience at the college level, but that hasn't stopped Buckeyes coach Ryan Day from talking him up.

[J. Mack]

And with Arch, man, athletic, big, strong arm, smart, quick release, accurate, you know, all the above. I mean he checks every box. I think they had their mind set up that they wanted to play, you know, down south and a little bit here and there for sure with his dad, Cooper, but. But not a whole bunch. He kind of had his mindset but, but yeah. Heck of a player.

[Rachel]

Ryan Day, referring to the fact that he also tried to recruit Arch Manning. Jason, I'm not sure if any other highly touted college quarterback has ever had their sort of debut as the official QB one against such tough competition. Right. I mean normally you get that parade of cupcakes when you start, especially when they're trying to get ease a guy in. And this time around we've got the college football committee saying strength of schedule, strength of schedule and we have this kind of matchup. Do you think, are you going to take into account who he's playing against when you evaluate him week one, or are you just going to say how's he do?

[Jay]

Yeah, even if he's terrible, let's say he's 14 of 28, 150 yards, they lose by 20. Like this is against Ohio State. Now the opposite. Rachel, let's be positive. If he goes in there, throws for 300 yards and they win, I think this hype machine is going to get out of control. Next level stuff. It's just such a fascinating matchup. It's very exciting. Listen, we usually don't have to wait this long for a guy to make his big splashy debut. If he had played against Georgia or who they fitz Clemson, I don't think we would be as excited, but he's kind of still a mystery. Right.

[Rachel]

And most guys who are this highly touted go on to have great careers. You, I know, have been a little skeptical about what do we even know about this guy already?

[Jay]

I don't want to be too scared. We got some Texas guys on staff who are very confident, but we'll see. Arch Banning noon on Fox Saturday. Cannot wait.

[Rachel]

Great game. I'm super pumped about this. All right, let's talk about the 49ers. We know they love Brock Purdy. They just gave him a five year, $265 million contract extension. But former Niner Pro Bowler Vernon Davis going a step further. He said Purdy, quote, makes great decisions. He's very accurate. His attitude toward the game is amazing. I'd compare him to Drew Brees. J. Mack, what do you think of that?

[Jay]

Hall of Fame Drew Brees is that same Drew Brees.

[Rachel]

That would be that Drew.

[Jay]

Brendan have a brother? Brother Breeze, sometimes. You know this. You've been in sports long enough, rage, like, you just pick somebody and you're like, I like this guy. I like the cut of his jib. I want to rock with this guy. I'm going to be a fan. I'm going to follow him. And I, for some reason, I saw that with Purdy early and I was like, I like this guy. Underdog, seventh round pick. He was good at Iowa State and then, but stuck around for four years. Kind of picked apart in the draft process. He's just been so good. And I know he's got Shanahan.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Jay]

Which, which certainly helps. But Trey Lance was the number two pick and could not work with Shanahan, you know, so I, I, I like Purdy. I mean, listen, Drew Brees is, that's high praise.

[Rachel]

Well, look, if you compare, just stay within the Niners organization. Joe Montana, Steve Young. Right. I mean, the icons, the icons of the icons. Right. So we don't know what Brock Birdie's going to turn into. I'm not in any way saying that he's Joe Montana or Steve Young. However, if you look at their first two seasons and you match up against his first two seasons. Oh, Purdy comes out ahead. Right. Stat wise. Completely. In the first 26 games. More wins, more accurate, more yards. More and better yards per attempt, better TD to pick margin, higher passer rating than Joe or Steve. Very interesting.

[Jay]

Wow. So he's above Breeze and this is Birdie and Breeze, Joe and Steve Young.

[Rachel]

Just for Those first, first 26 games.

[Jay]

And then listen, Steve Young, I'm trying to think. Bill Walsh was certainly with Montana. I don't know if it was for his first three, but like Bill Walsh, obviously a genius. I forgot who Drew Brees had early. Was it Peyton that early in his first three years?

[Rachel]

Well, he is at the Chargers first.

[Jay]

That's right. He started with the Chargers. Yeah. Listen, I'm a Brock Purdy guy. I'm a truther. What can I. 25 picks. That's way lower than Breeze. Yeah, he's good. He's an easy guy to root for, you know, no drama. There was a stories about how he was making so little money. He had like a roommate. He's driving some old car. Like, I like that stuff.

[Rachel]

And his teammates really like him. I think that to me, that's one of the first things I find out about a guy when I'm gonna do a profile on him or something like that. What does everyone around him say about him? Because that's how, you know.

[Jay]

Yeah. If anybody writes a profile about me, they should just ask the staff. The staff here loves me. Oh, my. We hang out all the time, constantly. I don't hang out with anybody. I don't have a life.

[J. Mack]

Sorry.

[Rachel]

Let's talk about another universally beloved figure. No controversy about him. Bill Belichick in North Carolina. The group says they are ready to go for their opening game. He's giving some credit for being ready to the program at the University of Washington. Remember when Bill had his year off right after the NFL? His son Steve was the defensive coordinator at U Dub Belichick was a frequent visitor, practices, games, actually spoke to the team a bunch, met with certain players to give them advice. And he called Washington a quote, template to his program. He said the style of sort of their mixing of college and pro is what really convinced him he could do the same thing at North Carolina. Of course, I personally would like to note that. That all sounds very nice. Belichick, at the end of this time, being a guest of their program, poached four of their players in the transfer portal and took the top two assistants. But, you know, that's fine. He's giving them a lot of credit now. What do you think? So sort of of this idea that he didn't go to Alabama. Right. He didn't go to OSU to say, what? How do you guys do it? He went to the smaller program because he felt like this is more of what I want to do.

[Jay]

Do we know if Jordan Hudson had any say in.

[Rachel]

Oh, wow. Sorry.

[Jay]

Wow. Why? He was going to North Carolina, but that's because Kaitlin DeBoer was at Washington. He's now at Alabama. And because they had a good team, Michael, Penix, Roma, Dunze. Yeah, they were pretty damn good. And they aired it out. I. That is interesting, huh? Yeah, I, I'm excited for. There's so much good stuff happening in college football between Arch Manning and Belichick. Those storylines, they rival a lot of the NFL stuff.

[Rachel]

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[Jay]

So what's, what's your guess on. On UNC this year? Like eight wins? Ten.

[Rachel]

Nine. You said nine yesterday. I feel like that might. I'm more in the eight camp, maybe.

[Jay]

I think it's seven and a half in 10. Vegas.

[Rachel]

Yeah, I think eight. Let's give them the. Let's give him the half game, right?

[Jay]

Well, they ain't losing Richmond or Charlotte.

[Rachel]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jay]

Just that TCU game, I think it's Monday is going to be a big one because if you win that, I think the hype machine gets excited and we're like, all right, it's all about, can we take down Clemson? You know, if Clemson happens to lose to lsu, then you get excited.

[Rachel]

I mean, there's, there's coaches of the teams on the schedule who have an enormous amount of experience, but there are also coaches on the teams of the schedule who do not. And there is no situation in the game of football that Bill Belichick has not been in where he will not know exactly what to do in exactly the right moment with the exactly right string to pull. And in addition to everything about the program and the players and the transfers and all the stuff that in second split decision, decision making I think is going to be a factor to his success.

[Jay]

I'm with you, Rachel. With the news.

[J. Mack]

Well, that's the news and thanks for.

[Jay]

Stopping by the Herd lie news. All right, coming up next, we're going to talk to a former NFL gm. What is the end game in Dallas with Micah and Jerry? That's next. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

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[J. Mack]

I'm Buzz Knight, the host of the Taking a Walk podcast. And join me for an upcoming episode with Seth MacFarlane, the creator of Family Guy, talking about his new Frank Sinatra music project.

[Buzz Knight]

Anyone who loves music would salivate over something like this. The biggest question for us was, what's in these boxes? There were a few unplayed gems that we had been alerted to by Charlie Pinon of Sinatra Enterprises. So we knew that certain songs like Shadow of your Smile, which actually is not on this record, it'll be on the next one.

[J. Mack]

Seth McFarland, Don Rickles went up to.

[Buzz Knight]

Frank Sinatra and he said, listen, I'm going to be having dinner with this lovely woman and I, you know, would you come over and say hi? And just so you know, because I feel like if she sees that I know you, it's going to make me look really cool and, you know, I might have a good night. During the middle of dinner, Frank walks over and says, don, hi, how are you? And Don goes, frank, please, I'm in the middle of dinner.

[J. Mack]

Seth MacFarlane on the taking a Walk podcast. Listen to Taking a walk on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Who cares about truth when the lies more entertaining.

[Rachel]

Hey everybody, I'm Angela Rai, co host of Native Lampa with Tiffany Cross and Andrew Gillum. Through the lens of politics and culture, we talk with you every week to make sense of this madness.

[Jay]

I've been telling Angela, I don't even know how to fight back right now. So what I'm focused on is just looking out for ourselves. That's the truth.

[J. Mack]

We're having the same debates that American households are having all over the country.

[Rachel]

Rest is certainly a form of self care, but if you are watching your full neighbors starve, not be able to pay bills, your rest is selfish.

[Jay]

But the thing is, Angela, this is not the mess we created. So I do understand black folks feeling like, you know what, y' all got it. We're like family, but we disagree all the time. And we love when our listeners chime in what would happen if we built our own little Wakandan communities in the rural South.

[Buzz Knight]

Tiffany, do not run to no rural South.

[J. Mack]

I don't know what you're on.

[Jay]

What our audience is asking is. Okay, fine. You want me to stop resting? What specifically are you asking me to do? Stay informed and take action. Listen to Native Land Pod on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome home. Welcome home, y'.

[J. Mack]

All. I'm Dan, he's Ty. Hello. And we're the Solid Verbal College football podcast.

[Jay]

College football season is here and you.

[J. Mack]

Know what that means. Your team is going to break your heart three times probably before Halloween.

[Jay]

Uh huh. But fear not, the Solid Verbal will be right there with you through every.

[J. Mack]

Soul crushing loss and impossible comeback. Join us all season long, all year long, as we ride the rollercoaster of this ridiculous sport. Whether you're a die hard fan or a casual observer, we'll help you make sense of all the chaos and of.

[Jay]

Course, celebrate the madness.

[J. Mack]

Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the.

[Jay]

Emotional support you need as a college football fan.

[J. Mack]

We don't just love college football, Tyler, we live it. Listen to the Solid Verbal college football.

[Jay]

Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

[J. Mack]

Or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jay]

Back here on the Herd. Oh boy. This next guest, he is one of the most accomplished front office guys in recent NFL history. He's worked at. He's currently working with uva, Iowa and Utah. Scott Pioli. Let's bring him in. Work with the Falcons, Chiefs, Patriots, briefly. My jet. Scott, how you doing, man?

[J. Mack]

J. Mack, I'm doing great. I know Rachel's over there. So what's up, Rachel, how are you?

[Rachel]

Hey, Scott, how you been?

[Jay]

Yeah, we are doing well, thanks.

[J. Mack]

Doing well. Thanks guys for having me. I really, really appreciate it. Great to be here.

[Jay]

Yeah, it's been an awesome week. We're having a lot of fun now. We're not have as much fun as Charlottesville, Virginia, a town I know well, growing up in Virginia. By the way, how are things looking for the, for the Cavs this year?

[J. Mack]

Hey, this is, it's, you know, I'm not good at predicting things and I always, you know, I never predict. But I'll tell you what, being around Tony Elliott, being around their athletic director Carla Williams, there is some special stuff going on here. Now we never know, right? If the, if all of the great stuff that's happening translates to wins. But I'll tell you what, the way that Tony's doing things, the way that this athletic department is doing things, it's going to be a lot of fun. They just do things the right way and they work on the right stuff.

[Jay]

College football is going through, like, a big transformational period with all this. Nil. Are you. I mean, as someone who worked in the NFL and you're now seeing this, and, I mean, it's like a totally different game sport almost.

[J. Mack]

Yeah, yeah. J. Mac. It's fascinating. You know, I started when I left the Falcons after the 2019 draft. Nick Saban hired me to come to do some work for him at the University of Alabama as a consultant. And then Coach Kirby, you know, Kirby Smart brought me in there, and then I worked for a number of different schools and for Marcus up at Notre Dame. Anyway, they had me doing this one thing. But as this has evolved, you're right, it's becoming a lot. In a lot of ways, very similar to professional sports. And not just for football programs, but for entire athletic departments. Right. The athlete. Each athletic department that's in these power four, you know, conferences, they have $20.5 million to spend, not on football, but. But on all sports. So they're trying to figure out their revenue sharing. How are they going to build their model of how they're going to play, pay student athletes, not only in football, but in every sport. So I'm spending some time, and I tell you, it's a lot of fun, and there's so many similarities, and, you know, I'm down for players being paid. I absolutely think that they should be. I just hope that they start to build in some things that make some of the crazy a little bit more certain.

[Jay]

So. And what are you thinking, like, building in, like, can't transfer out to multiple times or what kind of things do you think?

[J. Mack]

You know, the transfer thing is always so touchy, right, because people always go after the players when they transfer. But let's remember, coaches change jobs, too, right? So. So I get the transfer portal. Yet there's. I'm not smart enough to figure out those answers, but there are people out there a lot smarter than me that can figure out some of the constructs that we can put in place to help young people. And I'm gonna sound like an old man here, but to help focus on being able to chase your dream, chase something, chase something better, but also have a degree of commitment and accountability. And when I say that that doesn't mean that kids shouldn't be able to transfer, but we need to put things in that make it more sensible and easier for them to understand why they're doing. Not just that life's gotten too tough and I'm not starting, so I got to go somewhere else. There's. There's a lot to it, but I really hope that they. They continue to build things out the right way. But I'm down for so much that so many of the changes that they have made.

[Jay]

And it's funny you use that phrasing. I'm not playing. I want to go somewhere else. A guy you were part of Draft Ed. Tom Brady famously sat for a long time at Michigan. Got his chance, but, yeah, anyways. Yeah, but you talk money.

[J. Mack]

He has said publicly, the fact that he was pushed to go through the grind and to be uncomfortable and to. To have to work and do more and suffer a little bit, it also made him less entitled when he got there.

[Jay]

Certainly. Yeah, let's talk money. And a gentleman in Dallas, Micah Parsons. I kind of opened the show saying, listen, I don't think Jerry Jones is serious about football and putting together a good product. He cares about his name in the headlines and the valuation of the Cowboys because otherwise, he wouldn't wait for the last minute to sign Dak and Lamb. And now Micah Parsons. And it's getting ugly. Micah Parsons getting a second opinion on his back. His brother is tweeting out, this is going 12 rounds. You've been in some ugly standoffs, I assume. Oh, yeah, but what. What. What's your takeaway here?

[J. Mack]

Yeah, unfortunately, I have been a part of those things. And. And. And I've always felt that the best thing to do is to say nothing publicly on either side. You don't want to try to leverage people publicly. And I think once one side said something, then the other side feels like they have to say something and becomes this unnecessary competitiveness. And the bottom line is Micah wants to get paid. Micah should get paid. He should get paid a lot of money, and Jerry wants to pay him. They just have to figure this thing out. I don't know Jerry's reasons for, you know, making things and doing things and doing business the way he does, but my instincts tell me that he's. He's going to make sure that he gets business done at some point in time. I can't believe that he would ever. And that he or Stephen would ever let a player of Micah's ability get out of that building. And the toughest thing is, you Bring up J. Mac is you just hope during these kind of, you know, these controversial negotiations, you just need to work as hard as possible to keep family business, family business. Because inevitably if you talk publicly, someone's going to say something that hurts the other side and you hope that you can reel that stuff in later on.

[Jay]

So I'm obsessed with team building. I really love talking about this stuff. And we have a graphic I hope they could pull it that we used earlier in the show about that 20, 21 drafts class that Micah Parsons was in. And listen, Scott, all the best guys, Trevor Lawrence, Jamar, Chase, Patrick, certain they all were paid early, right? You get that out of the way. Listen, you worked in front offices. There's one guy of all the stars from this draft class in the first round who has not been paid. There's also one guy who's been the all pro three times, only one, and it's Michael Parsons.

[J. Mack]

So, yeah, you know, I can't, I can't say I agree with the way that business is getting done. And I. Here's the thing, if you pay someone early, it's going to be at a discount because wherever the, wherever the tide is right now, however high it is right now, it's going to be less next year. And that's with every position. Because every year, we read every single position, every year has a new record setting contract done in its position. That's the way it happens. So the earlier that you get a deal done, the more potential savings. Is it cash out the door Right now?

[Jay]

Yes, it is.

[J. Mack]

But there's more potential savings. And you know, I don't know too many teams that have signed really good players that maintain playing well where it ends up being a bad deal. The only bad deals is when the player stinks it up or the player gets injured and then it doesn't work out. So I'm all about the. And that's how we were most every place I ever worked. You tried to get the contracts done. You brought Tom Brady before we got that deal done early. And because we did, he was, not only did he give us a discount, but because of the market that we negotiated the contract in, it was a discount. Just naturally.

[Jay]

Yeah, I, again, I don't want to call out Jerry Jones too much. He's kind of powerful. But Scott, when you just think about that, what you just said, everywhere I've worked for the last 20 years and you work with a lot of champs. That's how they do business. He seems to be the only one not doing it that way. Is there any guess as to why? Other than no. He likes Henna's name in the headlines?

[J. Mack]

No. But here's the other thing. I'll say. Here's the other thing. He's a billionaire for a reason. So he knows how to do business right. He has done something right. Or a bunch of something's right when it comes to business. To. To make. To make money. He didn't just fall off the turnip truck. He's done some smart things in his life to make money. Why he does it this way, I don't know. And, and, and I'm also not very good at speculating as to why people make certain decisions. So, you know, to do business a certain way. But, you know, Jerry has clearly done business that I have because I'm not looking at the bank account that he is.

[Jay]

Well, you know, okay, we won't get it as billionaire status, but I want to quickly. I totally forgot about this. This. So we talked about Brock Purdy yesterday, and I am a Brock Purdy guy. I don't mind gassing him up. I feel like I can rock with this guy. I love his story. You were with Brady in the early years when he took over for Bledsoe. And I keep trying to tell people like I was, I'm a nerdy sports fan. I was following the league. Tom Brady, despite winning that first super bowl, was thought of as a game manager for several years. Isn't that what the storyline was with Brady? Like, hey, blood. So that's the. It was, yeah.

[J. Mack]

But, but again, revisions, revisions. History on things is very interesting. And with Tommy, you know, it was, it was interesting. He was. And again, a game manager isn't a bad thing. When you're called a game manager, that generally means you're doing a lot of really smart stuff. You're making a lot of really good decisions and you're winning football games usually. And with Brady, he was still developing. And I think that's the. There's different kind of game managers. Is it a game manager that's developing? And again, I've never. I don't know why people get insulted by game managing, you know, being called gay managers, because that's part of the job of being the quarterback. That's part of what you have to do. When we started things early on, Tommy was still developing.

[Jay]

He.

[J. Mack]

He was developing his skills, he was developing his accuracy, he was developing his foot movement, his movement in the pocket. And we had a really good defense. People forget that we had a 1200 yard rusher in Antoine Smith. We had a really, really good defense, and he was surrounded by good people and good players. Therefore, that made his development better. And the other thing about player development, particularly the quarterback position, I still believe it's very much circumstantial. And Tommy was in the right program for him, and he was the right guy for us. So it wasn't one or the other. And it wasn't just Tommy and Bill. I mean, Dick Raybon did an incredible job working with him his first year. Charlie Weiss did an incredible job. He also did a super job of play calling to the strengths of Tom Brady. And that's what Kyle Shanahan is doing with Brock Purdy. You know, I think quarterbacks need to end up in the right situations and the right people. It has to be the right marriage, and it gives them a chance to develop. And. And there's a lot of things that are really right for Brock Purdy. You know, between Kyle and Bobby Turner, their running back coach, and what Kyle learned from his dad, Mike, they know the running game. They. They are incredible in the running game, which allows them to play action pass, which really helps Purdy in terms of his protection and how much time he has. So it all kind of works together.

[Jay]

J. Mac, I love that. That. What a great answer. And I don't want to act like game managers derogatory, but when these quarterback lists come out, Scott, it's always like, oh, yeah, brock Purdy's like 10 to 18. And I'm like, guys, he's been dominant for three years.

[J. Mack]

And J. Mac, you're 100% right. Here's the other thing is, look at how many games he's won. And more importantly, one of our sayings was always, you know, you end up losing more games than you win. Yeah, right. And when you look at those quarterbacks, how many games have they lost? I'm not talking about wins and losses, but did they lose you games? Are they doing dumb things in order for you to lose games? That's not what you're looking for, and Brock doesn't do that.

[Jay]

Hope people are listening. Scott Pioli, longtime NFL fixture in front offices. Great stuff, and enjoy the college seasons, buddy.

[J. Mack]

J. Mack, thanks very much, Rachel. Take care.

[Rachel]

See you, Scott.

[Jay]

Coming up next, college football tears.

[J. Mack]

Hi, I'm Buzz Knight, the host of the Taking a Walk podcast, and join me for an upcoming episode. And with Seth MacFarlane, the creator of Family Guy, talking about his new Frank.

[Buzz Knight]

Sinatra music project, anyone who loves music would salivate over something like this. The biggest question for us was, what's in these boxes. Really, the most thrilling part was hiring an orchestra and just playing what was in these boxes.

[J. Mack]

Listen to Taking a walk on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rachel]

Hey everyone, it's me, Katie Couric. Did you know that I recently joined Substack? Very exciting. It's where I'll be sharing my unfiltered conversations with the people everyone's talking about. I'll also tell you what I'm reading, what I'm watching, what's making me crazy, and what's giving me hope. If you like deep dives, hot takes, and real talk, you're in the right place. Search Katie Couric on Substack and hit subscribe. I'll be there, reporting live, most likely in my pajamas. See you there.

[J. Mack]

Why are TSA rules so confusing? You got a hoodie on. Take it off. I'm Manny.

[Jay]

I'm Noah.

[J. Mack]

This is Devin, and we're best friends and journalists with a new podcast called no Such Thing where we get to the bottom of questions like that. Why are you screaming? I can't expect what to do now? If the rule was the same, go.

[Jay]

Off on me, I deserve it, you know? Lock him up.

[J. Mack]

Listen to no Such thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jay]

No Such Thing.

[J. Mack]

I'm Jake Hofer and this is back 40, a limited series show on Wire.

[Jay]

To Hunt, part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode I'll be asking eight whitetail.

[J. Mack]

Hunting pros a focused, thought provoking question about hunting and land management.

[Jay]

How do I hunt the best part.

[J. Mack]

Of the farm with less than ideal access? Should you? That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand.

[Jay]

Listen to Back 40 on iHeartRadio app.

[J. Mack]

Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Rachel]

This is an iHeart podcast.