THE HERD - Hour 1 - The Ravens may not be contenders, Shedeur Sanders turned off some teams, Justin Herbert

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode: THE HERD - Hour 1 - The Ravens may not be contenders, Shedeur Sanders turned off some teams, Justin Herbert
Date: September 23, 2025
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume

Overview

In this packed Tuesday hour, Colin Cowherd and co-host Jason McIntyre break down the NFL's biggest stories. They focus on glaring concerns with the Baltimore Ravens' defense and what it means for their Super Bowl chances, examine the fallout from Shedeur Sanders’ draft-day slide, discuss surges by teams like the Detroit Lions and the Los Angeles Chargers, and check in with special guest Justin Herbert. The episode also explores how salary structures in the AFC and NFC have shifted the balance of power in the NFL.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Are the Ravens True Contenders? (02:57 – 13:00)

• Detroit’s Domination Exposes Baltimore

  • Detroit beat Baltimore by dominating time of possession, aggressive fourth downs, and red zone efficiency.
  • Baltimore’s defense, despite heavy investment, showed up as “just as soft as the Dallas Cowboys defense.”
  • The Ravens rank last or near last in total defense; their issues are not just injuries, but a lack of physical identity.

• Fast-Scoring Offense Hurting the Defense

  • Lamar Jackson’s quick drives put the weak defense back on the field too quickly, disrupting complementary football.
  • “They score…then that crappy defense goes right back on the field. They don’t get any rest.” (Colin, 04:25)

• Super Bowl Outlook

  • History shows teams with glaring defensive weaknesses don’t win Super Bowls, with Colin referencing the Falcons’ blown SB lead.
  • “No, that team can’t win a Super Bowl at their current state, at their current roster.” (Colin, 12:46)

• Coach John Harbaugh Admits the Problem

  • Colin shares Harbaugh’s postgame comments on the run defense:

    “That’s disappointing. That’s bad run defense and that’s not who we are. It cannot be who we are…It’s not going to be acceptable and it’s got to be better.” (05:55)

2. The Rise and Identity of the Detroit Lions (07:30 – 13:01)

• Dan Campbell’s Philosophy

  • Initially perceived as stubborn for 4th-down aggressiveness, Campbell is now celebrated for his unwavering, authentic self-belief.
  • Detroit’s identity is “hyper aggressive”—they lead the league in fourth down conversions despite not having a “tush push.”
  • Colin praises Campbell:

    “There’s a fine line between stubborn guy and hey, I believe in what we are. And Dan Campbell…has never wavered.” (08:31)

• Strong Identity as Key to Success

  • The best NFL teams have a clear identity, and Detroit is now one of them.
  • “You never ask with Dan Campbell, like, what are they? They’re hyper aggressive.” (10:50)

3. AFC vs NFC: Balance of Power Shift (13:01 – 15:12)

• Rising NFC, Stagnant AFC

  • Colin’s take: The NFC now has deeper, better rosters because their quarterbacks are on friendlier contracts, while AFC teams like Baltimore and Kansas City have to pay superstar QBs, thinning the rest of the roster.
  • “I believe the NFC has caught up and surpassed the AFC.” (Colin, 13:22)
  • “The quarterback elite talent, now very expensive, is better in the AFC. The rosters now are better in the NFC.” (14:49)

• Jason McIntyre Responds

  • “That’s a hot awesome take. That’s good stuff from you.” (JMac, 14:54)

4. Shedeur Sanders' Draft Fall & The Value of Humility (20:30 – 24:36)

• Sanders’ Attitude Turns Teams Off

  • Deion Sanders allegedly coached Shedeur to avoid teams that wanted him to sit, leading to him falling to the Browns.
  • “Who learned sitting on the bench? Oh, I don’t know. Aaron Rodgers, Brady, Jordan Love, Brock Purdy, Mahomes…Most are really, really good.” (Colin, 20:53)
  • Colin criticizes Deion’s mentality as projecting his own exceptional path onto his son:

    “This isn’t about you, Prime Time. Your son doesn’t have Prime Time talent.” (21:18)

• Missing Out on Great Mentoring

  • Colin stresses the rare opportunity of learning under organizations like the Ravens and Eagles:

    “If the Eagles and Ravens call at any position, just say yes.” (24:30)

5. Packers’ Youthful Boasting and Reality Check (24:39 – 27:02)

• Coach Matt LaFleur’s Response to Undefeated Talk

  • LaFleur is displeased with premature “undefeated” talk from players, emphasizing weekly focus, not big-picture hype.
  • “The goal is to go 1-0 every week…pump the brakes on everything. Just trying to win one game at a time.” (LaFleur via Colin, 25:10)

• Cowboys Defense—Overrated?

  • Discussion of how Green Bay matches up well against Dallas’s “cream puff defense,” referencing recent big games by Russell Wilson and Caleb Williams against Dallas (26:03).

6. Chargers’ Surge and Justin Herbert’s MVP-Level Play (27:02 – 29:36)

• Herbert’s Clutch Performance Despite Pressure

  • Herbert is playing at an MVP level, thriving despite being hit 14 times in the last game.
  • “He gets hit constantly…he doesn’t even wince, he doesn’t show it.” (Colin, 27:57)

• Empowering Receivers

  • The acquisition of Keenan Allen and developing Quentin Johnston have boosted the Chargers’ offense.
  • “Quentin Johnston…is absolutely a huge part. He is their downfield passing attack.” (Colin, 29:11)

7. Eagles Comeback & Jalen Hurts Discussion (29:36 – 32:24)

• Play Calling Confusion, Hurts Steps Up

  • Clarification that Jalen Hurts wasn’t calling plays, but his field awareness and leadership are lauded.
  • “Jalen sees the field really, really well. He can come back and tell you what happened without even looking at a picture.” (Colin, 30:43)

• A.J. Brown as X-Factor

  • Rams’ inability to contain A.J. Brown shows their need for a cornerback; not many defenses can handle Philadelphia’s weapons.

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Interview Highlight: Justin Herbert (41:49 – 51:40)

• On Taking Hits and Staying Tough

  • Jim Harbaugh says Herbert doesn’t show pain, and Herbert admits:

    “There were a couple times in the game where I was maybe a little slow to get up…But as long as Coach Harbaugh thinks that, then, you know, that’s great for me.” (Justin Herbert, 42:43)

• On Fourth-Down Aggression and Game Prep

  • “There are multiple ways to win a football game…as long as we’re limiting turnovers, scoring in the red zone and converting on third downs, I’m happy to throw the ball as much as I can.” (Herbert, 47:03)

• On Relationship With Keenan Allen

  • “It’s basically like having another quarterback out there.” (Herbert, 47:49)
  • Discussing trust and chemistry: “That play, no, I break out of the pocket and I know that he’s the first to react. He sees what I’m doing and takes off.” (Herbert, 48:39)

• On Jim Harbaugh’s Personality

  • “I would say this guy loves football. I’ve never met anyone that loves football more than he does…He’s going to find your weaknesses, he’s going to watch film on you, he’s going to ask questions, and he loves the game.” (Herbert, 50:38)
  • On tough coaching moments: “There have definitely been times he’s mad at me, whether I’m throwing the ball downfield irresponsibly late over the middle…” (Herbert, 51:14)

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Additional Notable Moments

• Sam Darnold’s Revival and the 2017 QB Draft Class (32:26 – 37:52)

  • Darnold now highest-graded QB in the NFL; Colin reflects on how structure and team fit can revive careers.
  • Matt Hasselbeck calls Seattle’s run scheme ideal for Darnold:

    “When offensive linemen get to fire out and play run action at least half the time, it helps everything.” (37:23)

• General Praise for Current NFL QBs

  • Colin closes with appreciation for the next generation of quarterbacks, noting their off-field maturity and leadership:

    “We are lucky that all the star quarterbacks in this league…They’re all good dudes.” (Colin, 51:42)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Colin Cowherd: “The Ravens defense is just as soft as the Dallas Cowboys defense. Baltimore's last in total defense…they're soft.” (03:45)
• John Harbaugh (via Colin): “That’s disappointing. That’s bad run defense and that’s not who we are. It cannot be who we are…” (06:40)
• Colin Cowherd: “With Dan Campbell…you never ask: what are they? They are hyper aggressive.” (09:25)
• Colin Cowherd: “Who learns something sitting on a bench? I…can give you like 19 Hall of Famers who did…” (21:00)
• Matt LaFleur (via Colin): “Pump the brakes on everything. We're just trying to win one game at a time.” (25:02)
• Justin Herbert: “As long as Coach Harbaugh thinks that, then, you know, that's great for me.” (42:43)
• Justin Herbert: “He (Jim Harbaugh) loves football…He thinks about football when he wakes up and when he goes to bed and he wants to win.” (50:38)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:57 – Lions dominate Ravens: exposing Baltimore’s non-contender status
• 05:55 – John Harbaugh on the Ravens’ defensive failures
• 09:25 – Dan Campbell’s influence and Detroit’s clear identity
• 13:22 – AFC vs NFC: roster building and QB contracts
• 20:30 – Shedeur Sanders’ draft saga and generational mentorship
• 25:02 – Matt LaFleur on Packers focusing week-to-week
• 27:57 – Justin Herbert’s MVP form and building LA's offense
• 41:49 – Justin Herbert joins the show: durability, Harbaugh, and leadership
• 47:49 – Herbert on Keenan Allen and offensive chemistry

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Episode Tone & Style

• Colin’s style is opinionated, analytical, and peppered with dry humor and cultural references.
• Jason “JMac” McIntyre serves as the devil’s advocate and enthusiastic responder, keeping the pace lively.
• Notable for: candid assessments, behind-the-scenes stories, and nuanced takes on player development, team-building, and leadership.

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This episode is a must-listen for NFL fans curious about team philosophies, draft saga dramatics, and insights from one of the league’s top quarterbacks.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.

Hi, it's Colin. I've been around long enough to know.

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Savor responsibly.

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[Colin Cowherd]

Life thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon.

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To 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific.

[Colin Cowherd]

Find your local station for the [e-mail].

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Or stream us live every day on.

[Colin Cowherd]

The iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports.

Sports Radio.

Oh, it is a Tuesday. This will be the best show in a long time, I hope. What am I talking about? Hope? Of course it is. Greg Olson, Nick Wright, Justin Herbert, Herd hierarchy, one hour from now on a Tuesday, we are live. It is the Herd. Wherever you may be, however you may be watching or listening, thank you for making us part of your day. Jmac, you and I didn't have a very good week. It was a weird, weird week. But when you dig deep on Detroit, you know, we, we talked about this. Brand new coordinators don't take week one too seriously or the preseason. It looks like they've righted the ship. They look like Detroit the last several years, physically up front, pushing people around. Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

Questions about the Baltimore Ravens. Hopefully you can answer them.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right, so last night was the perfect example of how you beat a superstar quarterback when you're the road team. Detroit dominates time of possession. They're aggressive on fourth down. They convert in the red zone. No field goals. We're getting touchdowns. They bullied the home Ravens for three and a half hours. Super aggressive. And you think of Baltimore as tough and physical and resilient. Now, this defense is just as soft as the Dallas Cowboys defense. Baltimore's last in total defense. They surrender a ton of yards. I don't want to hear about the pass rushers. They were. They were missing. That wasn't about pass rushing. Last night. They invested a lot of money in Kyle Hamilton, Roquan Smith, their top two draft picks. They got over 100 million on defense and they're soft. And by week four and five in the NFL season, we're getting to be a quarter of the way through it. Some of your problems you can't solve unless at the trading deadline, you take a big swing. So this was three and a half hours of total domination. It may have been 38, 30. It felt like 48, 17. And here's the weird thing is that Lamar Jackson is so explosive that when he does lead a scoring drive, it's often very quick. So they send that crappy defense back on the field. They don't get any rest. So the Ravens, bizarrely, have the second fewest plays per drive in the league and the number one total offense. So they don't play complimentary football. And if you look at the last 10 Super Bowls, which is 20 total teams, there's been one awful defense. Atlanta. What happened to Atlanta in that Super Bowl? They blew a huge lead. You're not a Super bowl team with that defense. So the Ravens have a huge dilemma, which I don't know if it's solvable, is that they score because they're so dynamic with Lamar Jackson, he's so gifted. They score quickly and then the defense doesn't get a rest. It goes right back onto the field. It's not complimentary football like last year. The Lions defense stunk. But the Lions were number two in the league last year in time of possession, so at least they kept their average defense on the sidelines. And they won 15 games. That's not what Baltimore does. Plus they got a Derrick Henry fumbles in imperfect times issue. So. And again, by week four, week five, you know, you kind of, you kind of know what your issues are. I mean, The Lions had 96 yard drive and 70 yard drive and 98 yard drive and 60 yard drive. It did whatever they wanted to do. And if you look at the Baltimore game, their defense against Detroit last night and, and the Ravens defense against buffalo, combine those two games, they only forced those teams to punt three times. Three times out of 13 total possessions. So I went this morning and looked at the Ravens defense, their NFL rank, their last 30th, 31st and everything. Yeah, they were missing a couple pass rushers. That wasn't about pass rush. Detroit was in control. I mean, by the third quarter, you, every time Baltimore sent that defense out to make a stop, they couldn't. So the Ray Lewis, Ed Reed days are over. This defense doesn't do a lot well. They've spent money on it and bizarrely, they score too quickly. If you are weak defensively. We've talked about this a lot. Like one of the issues Kansas City has, they have no run game, so their defense is good, but it looks worn down in the second half. Well, Ravens defense looks worn down in the first half. And again, Lamar is so explosive that you just, that defense is on the field way too many snaps. And John Harbaugh saw the same thing we did. The biggest problem is we didn't play good run defense. I mean, we didn't as a defense, complete. We didn't do it. And that's not going to be good enough. There's nobody in that locker room that thinks that's good enough. That's disappointing. That's bad run defense and that's not who we are. It cannot be who we are. It's just, it's not going to be good enough. It's not going to be acceptable and it's got to be better. So again, when you get to this Point of the season. Trade deadlines up in about three weeks. Rams may need a corner. Ravens have to figure out something defensively now they will have pass rushers return which could help them in close games late if they have a lead. But right now this defense is just not good and they've invested in it and it was a major problem last night. Let's talk Lions. Let's give them some credit. So there's a big difference. It's a fine line, but there is a difference between stubborn guy and guy who has a very strong self belief. And I initially thought Dan Campbell was a little stubborn when he would always go for it on 4th because I didn't like their personnel. But now that they have really good personnel, he's self belief guy. He's never wavered on what he does. He's go for it guy. When they went for it with a with a buck 56 left in the fourth quarter, fourth and two and despite the fact they'd run at will on Baltimore and they throw it down field, that is self belief. That is believing in your dudes and they should again. I thought Dan was reckless in his first couple years because going forward on fourth down with average players is dumb. Detroit drafts really well, they got a great front office going for it last night. I would have run, I think we all thought they were going to run. But on the two big fourth downs, the one at the goal line, kind of the double pitch and then that they throw it over the top. So I mean that was really clever. Both of those caught you off guard. They don't have a tush push and yet the last three years they're number one in the league on fourth down conversions. They don't have a touch push. They have a golf, hands it off, give it to Gibbs. But they don't have a touch push. So again there's a fine line between stubborn guy and hey, I believe in what we are. And Dan Campbell took over a very flimsy franchise. The Lions always had talent. Barry Sanders, Matt Stafford, Calvin Johnson always had talent. They had no identity. And so Dan came into a fault and said we're going to be tough, relentless and physical and super aggressive. And again I was like, I don't know. But going forward, on fourth down, it's got a Jim Harbaugh feel to it. It's completely authentic and he's not wavering. This is who he is. Homer away. Good team or bad, he's going to go for it. And here's Dan Campbell after I got a tremendous amount of trust in those guys and that. That's been built up now in five years. You're right. And that helps. And that offensive line, the way they were playing, and we just felt like that was. We felt like that was the right call. And it's. Man, it's those guys. It's the players, man, they're the ones who make this stuff come to life, and they've earned that trust, you know, and they just, once again, man, they step up and make huge plays at critical times, and it's. I mean, it's unbelievable. It really is. It's a thing of beauty. If you look at the best teams in this league, you almost never ask, what are they? Like the Chargers in Harbaugh, what are they? Physical, aggressive. What are the Lions? You have never asked with Dan Campbell, like, what are they? They've had bad stretches, they've had bad defenses. You always know what they are. They are hyper aggressive. In the best days of the Ravens, when they were winning Super Bowls, they were physical. You didn't want to play the Ravens. Like the Patriots would go into games. Tom Brady said it. Yeah, I didn't really love playing those teams. Those teams, you felt you were sore the next three days, and that's a big part. Like the Tush push, the Eagles, you never doubt what they are, and there's a lot of talented players in this league. But go look at the standings this morning, and if you look at the top, the three and oh teams are the two and one teams almost always. They have an identity. You kind of know what they are and what they stand for. Eber Flues, head coach of the Bears, what were they? They weren't even good on defense all the time. Mike McDaniel and the dolphins, they're fast. You never ask that with the Lions and Dan Campbell. So. J. Mac, it is. It is a fascinating dilemma for the Ravens is that they have all sorts of good players, but it's not a complimentary football team. You cannot win Super Bowl. You can't win a World Series with a bad bullpen. You can't leak runs in the 7 8th, and you can't win a Super bowl with a really bad defense. Because even if you outplay a team like Atlanta and the Patriots, you'll subsequently give up that. You'll. You'll give that lead up eventually. And I look at Baltimore last night, and I'm like, no, that team can't win a Super bowl at their current state, at their current roster. I don't think they can win a Super Bowl.

[Jason McIntyre]

It's interesting. I think they started.02 last year and then peeled off five in a row. Yeah, but there's only six teams in the AFC Colin right now with a winning record.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's it.

[Jason McIntyre]

And one of them is like the Colts, you know, and the other with Jaguars. So the AFC is actually down and I feel like Baltimore is maybe finding themselves early.

[Colin Cowherd]

I have a theory on this.

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay.

[Colin Cowherd]

So in the last two years I believe the NFC has caught up and surpassed the afc. So what happened was AFC teams, there were a lot of bad AFC teams like Buffalo, They're a bad team or a Cincinnati. Yeah, they're not a very good team. And the Chargers, what are they? Philip Rivers is getting old. There were a lot. And then all these AFC teams hit on quarterbacks. Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson. Well, I mean to some degree like Trevor Lawrence as Justin Herbert. So when you didn't have to pay Patrick Mahomes, Kansas City, when you didn't have to pay those quarterbacks yet the top of the NFL was all these great quarterbacks on rookie deals. Then Baltimore, Kansas City, Cincinnati, Buffalo. Now you have to pay your star quarterbacks. What happens? Those teams in the AFC's rosters aren't very good. The NFC, many of the teams have quarterbacks on friendly deals. Darnold and the Seahawks, Baker in the Bucks, Purdy in the Niners, Hertz and the Eagles. So in the NFC you don't have the superstars, but you have very good B plus to A minus quarterbacks on team friendly deals and therefore your rosters are better. I think the rosters now are better in the nfc. The quarterback elite talent, now very expensive, is better in the afc.

[Jason McIntyre]

What, what are you eating? Neuro gum over there? That is a hot awesome take. I mean that's good stuff from you. Now Denver flies in the face of that. They have a young quarterback. They're 1 and 2. But they lost two games at the buzzer, right?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[Jason McIntyre]

So maybe they're going to be fine. But I do kind of like that you pay your quarterback.

[Colin Cowherd]

You can't.

[Jason McIntyre]

The rest of the roster was a.

[Colin Cowherd]

Four to five year stretch that we looked at. Baltimore, Buffalo, Kansas City were like, oh yeah, those are easily the best teams because you had stacked rosters and superstar quarterbacks. Washington, Jaden Daniel, Kansas City's O line and run game, bad. Baltimore's defense, bad. Buffalo's back end, not very good. That's the one. I mean like even the Chargers, we like, we like them but God, they could use another this they couldn't keep Bosa, they could keep Khalil Mack. He gets hurt, you're like, oh, so that's the reality is the NFC's got better value on very good quarterbacks though. Not Mahomes, Lamar, Josh, Allen. Great. So there you go. Herd hierarchy 45 minutes from now. JLab has the best audio products in the game at affordable prices. Won't break the bank. Blue box. Check them out at airports, Walmart. Best buyer. Go to jlab.com calm be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Hey, we're Covino and Rich, Fox Sports radio every day, 5 to 7pm Eastern. But here's the thing. We never have enough time to get to everything we want to get to. And that's why we have a brand new podcast called Over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun in our two hour show. We never get to everything honestly, because this guy is over promising things we never have time for.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, you blubberlips.

[Colin Cowherd]

Blaming me. Well, you know what it's called? Over Promise. You should be good at it because you've been overpromising women for years. Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show and we want you to be a part of it. We're gonna be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing about something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called Over Promised. Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make sure you check out Over Promised and also uncensored, by the way. So maybe we'll go at it even a little harder. It's gonna be the best after show podcast of all time. There you go. Over promising. And remember, you could see it on YouTube, but definitely. Join us. Listen to Over Promised with Covino and rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Colin Cowherd]

So sometimes it takes a while for the truth to Come out for the whole story to be developed. We officially have it. On why Shedeur Sanders dropped like a rock in the draft and ended up going in the fifth round with the Cleveland Browns, where he's now splitting scout team duties with Bailey Zappi. Deion Sanders admitted the Eagles and the Ravens called his son before the draft, but he didn't want to be a long term backup. Dion is quoted as saying, hey, I, I never sat on the bench and learned a lot. I mean, who learned sitting on the bench? Oh, I don't know. Aaron Rodgers, Brady Jordan. Love. Brock Purdy. Philip Rivers. Behind Breeze. Yeah. Patrick Mahomes. Behind. Alex Smith. Jalen Hurts. Oh, I just, I just winged about eight guys. Most are really, really good. But with Dion, it's I never. This isn't about you. Prime time. Your son doesn't have prime time talent. He's an after school special. You were a primetime talent. Okay? You're totally different. Ball game. You're projecting your talent onto your son. You suppressed a man. Think about this. So two great organizations said, would you like to come into our house and learn from us? Nah. And then Dion pre draft went on and crapped on like the four or five bad teams that were interested. I mean, if your son or daughter is going to the market and you're a famous mom or dad and you say, listen, we're not going to work for any startups and unless he's a vice president or she's a vice president, we're not working for Apple and Microsoft or Google either. Yeah, not great parenting. And this story has been undercovered because Deion's very popular in the media. But this is insane. Who learns something sitting on a bench? I. The best quarterback ever. Brady sitting behind Drew Bledsoe, a total pro. Mahomes has acknowledged Alex Smith was instrumental to his growth. I mean, Lamar Jackson sat for 10 weeks behind Joe Flacco. Learn the offense. Brock Purdy. Jalen hurts. I mean, that's what Green Bay does. We draft you, you sit and learn. Who learns from the band. I got nothing against Shadour. I've always said that's more of a Dion issue because son worships dad. Son follows dad's advice. But the idea, who learns anything on the bench? Here's a memo. I was just reading a story this morning. I think it was in the New York Times about how college educated kids are struggling to find jobs out of college. Let me give you a tiny bit of advice. If a great company calls and says, listen, we're going to give you Kind of a semi internship. Take it. There's not many great anything out there. There are very few great companies. Ravens Eagles are great companies. If they call and they say, you know, it's not a starter, but you can sit here and figure it, you take it. I mean, it's one thing not to want to work with a startup and move cross country. You can probably sometimes as a million of those, most don't work. But this story, now the truth is coming out. I mean, the Ravens Eagles said we're interested. They're pretty good at player evaluation. And now you're splitting scout team reps with Bailey Zappy. I mean, it's this whole thing. Who learns anything on the bench? I mean, I can give you like 19 hall of Famers who did not. I mean, we're not talking about a corner. And Dion was unbelievably gifted. You know, it's like, okay, dad was unbelievable. Dad was prime time. I'm not denying that. Best corner I've ever seen. But that wasn't what your son was. So I had to make sure this story wasn't from the Onion this morning. If the Eagles and Ravens call at any position, just say yes. J. Mac with the news.

No, no, no.

Turn on the news.

[Jason McIntyre]

This is the Herd line news. All right, let's go to the Green Bay Packers. Colin. Remember last week they were two zero, riding high, and one of their players said there was. Rasheed Walker was like, hey, we could go undefeated. Well, Matt LaFleur was asked about that yesterday at media, and he made it clear he was not thrilled with that undefeated chatter.

[Colin Cowherd]

The goal, and I've said it a million times to you guys, I don't think I've obviously said it enough to our team. The goal is to go 10 every week. And it pisses me off when we start talking about things outside of the next game. Pump the brakes on everything. We're just trying to win one game at a time. And if you're thinking or have your sights set on anything outside of that, I think you. You got. You're focused on the wrong things.

Yeah, I. It's a very young team, and young players don't always have context. So when young teams after a couple of wins are like, yeah, undefeated, it's like, bro, it. This is not the Randy Moss, Tom Brady Patriots. This is not what this team is. It's really, really. Even Jordan Love is still relatively young, so. And it also shows the nfc. Now, J. Mack is. I mean, that Cleveland's obviously in the afc, but you're not going to go undefeated in your division. There's too many good coaches. Too many good players.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. Interestingly, you know, packers offensive line is beat up, but I don't know is that going to matter against this, you know, cream puff defense that the Cowboys have. Russell Wilson And Caleb Williams, two guys who are not considered top 15 quarterbacks, looked like Pro Bowlers the last two weeks against Dallas. I don't see how they stopped Green Bay here. What am I missing?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well also Green Bay just come off, comes off a really embarrassing loss. Now the Browns can really play defense, but it's an embarrassing loss for Green Bay. And you warned everybody, stay away game. Not like we had a good week, but that was a stay away game. It had. I didn't think it would be a loss. They led to nothing in the fourth, but it was a game in which Cleveland is going to keep a lot of high powered offenses under wraps. You're going to win. Cleveland's going to lose a lot of low scoring, ugly games because they don't have a ton of firepower. But I, but I do think when you get embarrassed and for the packers losing to Cleveland's embarrassing, you generally get a pretty good effort the following week.

[Jason McIntyre]

By the way, the Browns touchdown drive against the packers was 4 yards and their game winning field goal. They went like 16 yards, something like that. Like they the Brown. The packers defense is really, really good and CD Lamb sounds like he's going to be out multiple weeks. Yeah, I don't see why the packers don't destroy them this weekend. Let's move to the next game. And that's the Chargers. Colin. They are one of the hotter teams in the league. Big favorites on the road against the G Men. Justin Herbert is cooking. He's got to be in the MVP discussion. Despite taking 14 hits and getting sacked five times, he came through late when it mattered most. Again, super clutch to set up the game winning field goal. His right tackle, Trey Pipkins gushed about Herbert saying he let us the entire time. If that's not mvp, I don't know what is. Now obviously week three, you don't want to be like who's the mvp? Like it's goofy. That being said, Justin Herbert is playing at an MVP level right now.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, he comes on our show later today and he's also getting hit constantly. He got hit 14 times so. And it was so funny listening to Jim Harbaugh who's like, he doesn't even wince. He doesn't show it. I'm going to ask him about that because I mean he got, he got bounced around in that game. He really did. It's like Lamar Jackson last night. You got to give the Lions credit. Aiden Hutchinson, I mean, how lucky are lion fans? A Michigan guy becomes lion star. I mean, Lamar Jackson got hammered last night. Jordan Love this weekend got hammered. So to have a quarterback that's big enough and physically strong enough to be able to hand handle those hits, there's not a lot of great O lines in the league. You can name them, but there's a ton of good pass rushers. So I mean it's, I mean, I think so much of this league for quarterbacks is availability and durability. And it's amazing how often Herbert gets hit and just bounces right back up.

[Jason McIntyre]

And I know there's this narrative, oh well, what does Herbert want? Like that, that's a little goofy. He was throwing to tight ends and lad McConkey last year, that Keenan Allen move, you know, we could look back on this in January and be like, that was one of the three biggest acquisitions in the off season. Because with Keenan Allen, doesn't Herbert just look. It looks so confident throwing to this guy.

[Colin Cowherd]

The other thing that he's done is he's empowered the players that were already there. Quentin Johnson looked like a bust and now Quentin Johnson is absolutely a huge part. He is their downfield passing attack. So again, Harbaugh creates this self belief where he loves and believes in his players. And Quentin Johnson had a drop issue and drop issues are often confidence, you know, lack of confidence. Quentin Johnson will still drop some balls, but he is a big part of this offense. Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

And by the way, the final note, we had him on the show when I filled in Dicker the kicker. Yeah, he's like automatic. He's not quite Brandon Aubrey, but he's like maybe the second best kicker in the league at this point. Chargers are so well built. Special teams as we know, matter significantly. Right now in the NFL final story, Colin is the Eagles and their comeback win over the Rams was pretty thrilling. Remember, the offense was struggled in the first half, had like 33 yards, then went off in the second half. So there was some theory floating around that Jalen Hurts was calling plays. I don't know if you saw this. And of course Nick Sherry, Nick Sirianni, walk around guy who likes to take credit. Here we go.

[Colin Cowherd]

Kevin called the plays yesterday in that second half.

Jalen.

But make no mistake about it, like Jalen does a great job of communicating. Jalen sees the field really, really, really well. He can Come back and, and tell you what happened without even looking at a picture. And then you look at the picture like, yeah, that's exactly what happened. Jalen has a great feel for how that's going. And, and, and so there's, there's communication, right? There's talk through it, you know, everything like that, you know. But yeah, Kevin, Kevin called the plays, you know, Kevin will continue to call the plays.

Yeah, it doesn't really matter. All I know is Hertz had a great second half. He is inconsistent. He has bad halves. But in that second half, let's settle down.

[Jason McIntyre]

I know you, I know you're like, like Hertz.

[Colin Cowherd]

You don't love him.

[Jason McIntyre]

Colin. You love that Rams defense. They're an elite unit.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, I know.

[Jason McIntyre]

Look what he did in the second half against 17 of 24. 209. Three tutties. Jaylen Herz is elite. Okay. And sometimes, when, listen, when you're struggling, sometimes you just toss it up to J back and I'll see if I can bail you out. He was doing that with A.J. brown, was he not? Second half J. Let me just throw it to A.J. brown. He's catching everything. Poor guy. On the Rams.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, it also, it was a good loss to the Rams because they see they have an unsolvable problem. Like the Ravens. They need a big long corner. They need size at corner. You're not beating the Eagles and A.J. brown. You're going to get beat eventually if you're the Rams. If I don't care who it's going to be. But A.J. brown is a problem for the Rams secondary. They don't have any personnel to stop him. He dominated physically.

[Jason McIntyre]

Those players, frankly not a lot of teams do. But I think you're right. Like the idea of a shopping list for teams like the Rams. They got to go get a cornerback. Know and I'm. I'm very curious. The Eagles this week they face the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Mike Evans, they just announced is out. Do the Eagles have any needs, Colin? Or are they like, hey, we're super bowl ready. We got a tight roster.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, yeah, I. Maybe. Maybe another corner somewhere. Yeah, that would be it. Jmac with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for.

[Jason McIntyre]

Stopping by the Herd lie news.

[Colin Cowherd]

So this is breaking news. It. It is what most of us predicted. You, the fans predicted it. It was pretty easy to see coming. The New York Giants have named Jackson Dart as the new starter. The Giants are owing three outside of that Dallas game. They can't move the ball. J. Mack and I have Discussed this before. I don't ever remember a quarterback going from elite to Nobody wants to be his coach faster than Russell Wilson. Sean Payton, Pete Carroll both moved off him quickly. He went to the Steelers, they moved off him and now Brian Dabel is moving off him as a starter. So Jackson dart again, you had a very small sample size, but my take is there's five or six quarterbacks next year that could go in the first or early second round or about there. Right. You got to figure out if Jackson darts. The guy I'm not looking for wins with. Jackson dart. I don't care if he win, wins game. Is he comfortable? Does he see the field? You know, I my take is the Russell Wilson thing. I've never seen anything like it. Russell Wilson did not have a major injury and Pete Carroll couldn't get rid of them fast enough. Sean Payton's like, I'm done. Pittsburgh moved off him and the Giants now after three games, it's enough. So we'll see. This is not a team that's going to win a lot of games. The good news for the Giants is they're going to have a top five or six draft pick and you got a lot more leverage. There's going to be a lot of teams needing a quarterback. And if Jackson dark can play and you discover it here in the next 10 weeks, 13 weeks, you don't need a quarterback. I don't know the answer to that. I thought he was kind of a second round guy, but I also thought Shador Sanders was a late first second round guy and he dropped to the fifth. Here's another speaking of guys who have had doubters. So at the end of yesterday's show, I made a point of informing the audience that the highest graded quarterback in the NFL this year is not Josh Allen, it's slinging Sammy Darnold, former USC Trojan, a guy I have loved since I saw him as a sophomore with the Trojans. And it was interesting. I was thinking about this this morning between Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold's resurgence. If you go back to that draft class that also included Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson, four different quarterbacks who had made the Pro bowl, it's one of the best quarterback classes in hindsight. In 30 years you have four Pro bowl quarterbacks and two MVPs. Not a lot of quarterback draft that the one coming up this year is not going to give you that. So at some point all of them were doubted. Lamar Jackson, out of college, was doubted. Can he play quarterback? Josh Allen's first year it was a turnover disaster. More picks than touchdowns. Sam Darnold, multiple issues. Baker, mostly maturity issues. So the last two years the numbers say Sam is the winningest quarterback in the league and is the best big play quarterback in the league. Now do I think Darnold's the best quarterback in the league? I do not. Do I think he's a top five quarterback? I do not. But I always said he is a franchise quarterback. Big, tough, athletic, coachable leadership skills. Players, teammates love him. And ask yourself what are the Panthers and the jets done since he left? But Darnold's the classic example. He needs structure. It's just like some kids manage themselves. A lot of young kids need strong guidance from parents. And if you have three or four kids, one of them kind of manages himself. Not everybody needs a trainer to stay in shape. They're self motivated. A lot of people need guidance, a trainer and help, something to push them. Sam needs structure. Even last year with the Vikings he had about a five game stretch. Reckless came back. So Seattle, what are they? Excellent defense. One of the top two, three run centric teams in the NFL. So they create a structure. Sam, we're going to be run first, lot of play action. And Sam, you won't have to get in track meets. Nobody scoring 30 on us. So that gives Sam the classic structure which he has always thrived at. But he can get loose. Even with Kevin o', Connell, Justin Jefferson, he can get loose. Got to bring him back in. And again, some kids manage themselves. Some people don't need a trainer. Those are, that's, that's very rare. Most people, myself included, I need structure. Sam needs it. And Matt Hasselbeck earlier this week on what Seattle has created and provided to allow Darnold to flourish.

When offensive linemen get to fire out and play run action at least half the time, it helps everything. And I think that's the thing that some people do well, some people talk about it, but don't do it as well. Seattle, I would say week two and week three, they've figured that out. And so, you know, if you can.

Continue that, I think that Sam Darnold.

Can have the kind of year that he had last year, but without Kevin Oconnell, without Justin Jefferson, he's playing really, really good football right now.

Look at that draft class. We thought it was two stars and a bunch of misses. And now it's Allen mvp, Lamar mvp. And Baker and Darnold on really team friendly deals have made Pro Bowls. So again, Baker is a better fit in Tampa than Cleveland. Darnold. Great fit in Minnesota that tried to resign him. Excellent fit in Seattle because they've created limited, they created great structure. They're not asking him to throw 45 times a game. There's about three quarterbacks in the world that can do that, and one of them Justin Herbert's around the corner plus Herd hierarchy Nick Wright, Greg Olson Great show on a Tuesday, it's the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

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[Colin Cowherd]

Well, no quarterback in the last two decades for the Chargers has been hit as many times as Justin Herbert got hit against the Denver Broncos. Obviously, they've got some offensive line injuries. The Broncos are a great front and Justin Herbert, one of the most likable, humble guys, has given us 10 minutes today, which I totally appreciate that. And he knows that he's joining us live. So Harbaugh said yesterday, Jim is funny. He's like, you know, Justin gets hit, he never shows it, he never winces. He's just like a superpower. And I thought driving in today, I thought, do you ever get hit Sunday? And it really hurts. I mean, it really hurts. But you know, you have to go back into the huddle and you can't show that. Are you ever in some pain and you're just masking it and not letting your teammates know?

Yeah. Well, first off, thanks for having me. Always, always look forward to being on the show. And that is a good question. There were a couple times in the game where I was maybe a little slow to get up, got back to the huddle and you know, I might have called the play a little slower for the guys and so they might have recognized that. But as long as Coach Harbaugh thinks that, then, you know, that's, that's great for me.

Justin, when you get hit and again, all quarterbacks get hit. Lamar Jackson last night got sacked seven times. It's the reality of the NFL. There's great athletes up front. How do you not hear footsteps? How does it not affect you later in a game?

Yeah, that's a really tough thing. I think that's part of playing quarterback, of understanding that, you know, you're Going to get hit. And. And the defenses that you're going up against are really fast and athletic, and you just got to have enough time to get the ball off. And understanding that those split seconds of, you know, if I stand in the park for, you know, just a half second more, I can get the ball off and we can have a big play, it makes it all worth it. And obviously, we do a great job taking care of our bodies, and, you know, we've got a training staff second to none. So knowing that, you feel comfortable going out there.

So the first time Jim Harbaugh came up to you pre game, and it started banging on your shoulder pads, I mean, that's what he does now. And I actually think there, it works. It kind of like it startles you. You're getting the good Jim. I thought Jim was a little crazy, and then he came to the Chargers, and he's like likable Jim and funny Jim. I mean, that's all you know, right? You only know that Jim.

Yeah, that's. That's all we know. We just know the most authentic competitor, you know, cares so much about the team, about winning, about football, and he'd do anything for us. And, you know, when I first got on the sideline and he was hitting my pads and things like that, I just thought it was awesome. He kind of explained the story about, you know, getting that first hit, and, you know, as soon as you get that first hit, you're ready to go. And so he felt like if he could do that before the game, then there's no time wasted.

Quentin Johnson worried me. He had drops. It looked like he almost lacked confidence. Well, that's over. You guys have been aggressive. He is the downfield weapon. Can you take me a little bit into the off season of taking a guy that had talent, wasn't quite there yet, whatever you guys did, but it feels like he's turned a corner.

Yeah, Q's. Q's done such a great job. And I think one of the really special things about him is he had a great year last year. It was kind of a quieter great year. And I think he had eight touchdowns and caught a whole bunch of yards. And, you know, he came back this year and he's just continued to work. He's continuing to get better, and he's having fun. He's playing confidently and he's making a bunch of plays. There was a play that, you know, he went up and caught a 50, 50 ball on Sunday, and obviously it was a irresponsible throw by me. But to have a guy like that go up and get it and, you know, kind of save me was. Was really cool to see.

What do you do when you get hit 14 times? Give me. Take me behind the curtain. What is your Monday rehab like? What. What? You just don't tell me. You just go get a Frappuccino and just sit in the couch. What is Monday rehab like?

Yeah, I actually get in the pool and I move around in the pool. You know, I think it's easier on my joints. And whether it's swimming, running, it's. It's good to just get movement. I do a lot of icing on my shoulder. You know, I think I threw the ball a bunch, and, you know, it was kind of the game that we knew was. Was going to happen. We know how good their front seven was. And, you know, watching the film of the quarterbacks the week before, they had to move a bunch and they had to throw on the run. And that's just kind of what you had to do against the Broncos. And, you know, obviously, we do a good job. We've got all the facilities here at our. At our team facility, so it makes my job so much easier.

So you had 36 pass attempts. That's what you're kind of doing on a weekly basis. It was closer to 29 last year. How does that change prep for you? Now you may say, oh, it's only seven pass attempts, but you got some offensive line injuries. So is your mindset change a little bit, Justin, from last year? Like, hey, I'm going to get up near the 40s here like. Like that? Do you. Are you. A little more. Are there certain throws now you'll, like, hold it back and think, hey, I got 40 pass attempts. It's the first quarter. Does it change anything for you psychologically?

Not so much. I think the thing that we do recognize is, you know, there are multiple ways to win a football game, and whether that's throwing it 40 times or whether we're going to run the ball 40 times, you got to put the team in a position to win. And understanding that the defense that we have, that they're going to force a bunch of stops and turnovers, and you just got to be smart with the ball. And I think as long as we're limiting turnovers, scoring in the red zone and converting on third downs, which I think we've done a pretty good job of the past couple of weeks, you know, I'm happy to throw the ball as much as I can.

Explain to me how Keenan Allen, multiple surgeries. He's not a 4, 3, 8 guy anymore. A 4, 4 guy. How does Kenan Allen get open on every third down his entire career? Explain it to me.

He just. The way he works routes, his understanding of defenses and leverage. I don't know how he does it. He came a few weeks ago, maybe three, four weeks ago, and picked up the offense like he'd been running his entire life. And I've never really seen anything like that. And that's how you can tell, you know, he's a true pro. He's one of the best to ever do it. And he's just so smart. He understands how defenses are trying to play him and where to go. And it's basically like having another quarterback out there.

Yeah. Your relationship with him. All young quarterbacks need somebody they can trust. He's your trust guy. Do you guys have, like, an unscripted language, eye contact, like, on that big play this weekend, did you know it was going to him? Did you sense it was?

I think that's where we're just so lucky to have him, you know, especially when I came into the league to have him and Mike Williams, where we're two guys that kind of just showed me the way and just were true receivers. And sometimes you take them for granted. But that play, no, I break out of the pocket and I know that he's the first to react. He sees what I'm doing and takes off. And, you know, as long as you're the first to react and you've got a shot to make something happen downfield and even if it is a 50, 50 ball, Keenan Allen, you know, he's. He's a huge body. He's. He's so talented and athletic. I know he's going to go fight for that ball and didn't see the actual catch, but watching it on the replay was pretty cool.

Yeah, it was. By the way, Oregon's at Penn State this weekend, and it's going to be the biggest game of the college football weekend. How can you. What do you have time to ever watch those games?

Yeah, I always make time to watch Oregon, you know, growing up a Duck fan playing there, you know, it's been so fun to watch them play. And, you know, I think that's kind of the cool thing about going to the Big Ten and playing all these. These fun teams is you're going to go to the east coast and you're going to have some big games. And, you know, not always was that the case in the PAC 12. And, you know, I know the Ducks are really excited and. And, you know, Eugene is loving it, too, so it's really cool to see.

So our graphics department thought they were very funny yesterday because I said, you and Harbaugh's as good as Reed and Mahomes. It's just a perfect. If Jim could go to a lab and build a quarterback, and I swear to God, he would build you. Humble, coachable, hardworking, tough. You were Jim. You just have a better arm than Jim had. And so our graphic department thought it was very funny. And they made up all these Simon and Garfunkel and yeah, you guys, they just thought that was the funniest thing in the world. What else do we have? Mario and Luigi, I think, was on that. Yeah, there we go. When you look at Harbaugh, if somebody never met Jim and you said, hey, Colin, come on over to my place. I want to introduce you to my head coach, Jim Harbaugh. Would you warn me? What would you say about Jim Harbaugh as somebody that got Batman and Robin? What would you say to me if I'd never met Jim Harbaugh? How would you explain him?

I would say this guy loves football. I've never met anyone that loves football more than he does. He thinks about football when he wakes up and thinks about football when he goes to bed and he wants to win. And I think the coolest thing about him is he's a competitor. If we have any games going on, he's going to. He's going to try and beat you. Whether we're playing ping pong, whether we're, you know, playing cornhole, it doesn't matter. He's. He's going to do everything he can to win, and he's going to find, you know, your weaknesses, he's going to watch film on you, he's going to ask questions, and he loves the game.

So it's really cool to see 15 seconds. Has he ever been mad at you?

There have definitely been times where he's mad at me, whether I'm throwing the ball downfield irresponsibly late over the middle. You know, he tells me, just check the ball down, you know, go to the next play and be smart with the ball. But there are definitely times where we're talking about practice in the game for sure.

Hey, man, it's great seeing you. You look fantastic. You're crushing it. Try to stay upright. Between you and Lamar, I don't like my star quarterbacks getting hit like that. Congrats on all your success.

I'll do my best. Thanks again for having me.

All right, Justin Herbert, one of the truly great guys. I've said this before. We are lucky that all the star quarterbacks in this league. It can be Lamar, it can be Mahomes. It's Herbert, it's Jalen. Hurts. How lucky are we? They're all good dudes. They're all, I mean, to be that young, good looking, rich and that good of a dude. We're lucky, all of us. Herd hierarchy. Nick Wright. He's not gonna like the herd hierarchy. Could get contentious the next time you.

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[Colin Cowherd]

College football is here.

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.