THE HERD - Hour 1 - Thoughts on the Cowboys documentary, Aaron Rodgers not playing in the preseason

Summary

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The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 1

Episode Date: August 20, 2025
Theme: Thoughts on the Cowboys’ documentary, parallels to NFL team-building today, Aaron Rodgers’ preseason absenteeism, quarterback development, and key training camp storylines.

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Episode Overview

In this hour, Colin Cowherd and co-host John Middlekauff review the new Netflix Jerry Jones/Cowboys documentary, "The Gambler: America's Team," and use its themes to draw lessons for the modern NFL, particularly the current Dallas Cowboys and the Philadelphia Eagles. The hosts also scrutinize Aaron Rodgers not playing in the preseason, discuss the evolution in patience for young quarterbacks – especially in the context of Caleb Williams and the Bears – and debate wide receiver values and quarterback development around the league.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reflections on the Dallas Cowboys Documentary and Jerry Jones’ Legacy

Timestamps: 02:48–10:30

• Dichotomy of Old vs. Current Cowboys:

  • Colin praises Jerry Jones’ past aggressiveness—his relentless, decisive ownership in 1990s, especially risk-taking to build the original dynasty (Aikman, Emmitt Smith, Jimmy Johnson, Michael Irvin, etc.).
  • “He spent every penny on the Cowboys… He was so aggressive and so decisive and had such a clear plan.” (Colin, 03:58)
  • Contrasts this legacy with today’s Cowboys, whom he labels reactive, beset with contract sagas (Dak Prescott, Micah Parsons) that cloud the organization’s identity.

• Modern NFL Parallels – Philadelphia Eagles as “The New Cowboys”:

  • Colin lauds the Eagles' decisiveness: quick to cut ties (Wentz), aggressive with player and coach moves (Barkley deal, Tush Push innovation), ignoring sunk costs.
  • “The Eagles today are the Cowboys in the Netflix special. Dallas now is reactive. Dallas then was proactive.” (Colin, 05:07)
  • Says Dallas, in contrast, lets negotiations drag, costing them millions (Dak’s cap hit “is bigger than AJ Brown, Saquon Barkley and Jalen Hurts combined”).

• Notable Quote:

  • “You know who the Dallas Cowboys of that era are? They’re the Philadelphia Eagles now… The Eagles have a brand. The Eagles have the most aggressive GM… decisive. They don’t look back.” (Colin, 04:38–05:18)
  • Praises Jerry Jones’ showmanship and business acumen, but notes the franchise lacks a modern identity and “no longer has the guts” to make bold moves.

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2. Aaron Rodgers Sitting Out Preseason: Should Pittsburgh Worry?

Timestamps: 10:30–13:26

• Concerns About Rodgers’ Preparation:

  • Colin isn't troubled Rodgers won't play in preseason, but highlights the risk: new system, aging QB (41), unfamiliar weapons (never taken a live snap with DK Metcalf, rookie OC Arthur Smith), shaky OL, and poor run game.
  • Pittsburgh's schedule is loaded with elite defensive coaches to start, making early-season cohesion vital.
  • “He is tied for 25th in fourth quarter comebacks… That, if Aaron's not playing well, he's trailing late, he kind of bails.” (Colin, 12:25)

• On Rodgers’ Personality and Pressure:

  • Colin points out Rodgers’ tendency to become “moody” when trailing, contrasting him with ‘foxhole’ QBs like Brady, Mahomes, or Peyton Manning.
  • Worries about lack of preseason snaps impacting chemistry and urge for the Steelers to address smaller but telling issues—even joking about Rodgers' ill-fitting helmet on TV.

• Guest Quote:

  • “I’m comfortable what I’m seeing out here, obviously if I weren’t, I would be playing him… as I sit here today, all healthy outside of the four that I mentioned are preparing and scheduled to play.” (Mike Tomlin, 13:03)

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3. Patience (or Lack Thereof) for Young Quarterbacks

Timestamps: 19:56–25:04

• Old School vs. New School Quarterback Development:

  • Colin reflects on the 90s patience with QBs like Troy Aikman, who endured tough early years but was never benched or discarded hastily.
  • “Troy Aikman just got the, you know what, kicked out of him for two and a half years his first two seasons starting… but they knew his talent and they stuck with him.” (Colin, 20:10)
  • Today’s teams, cites Colin, are quicker to cut bait (Rosen for Murray; Trubisky, Richardson). Believes the Bears should take the long view with Caleb Williams and new coach Ben Johnson.

• On Chicago Bears’ Historical QB Struggles:

  • “My entire life, the Bears settled at head coach, mostly an overdrafted quarterback. And this time they didn’t.” (Colin, 22:18)
  • Stresses that with both a coveted coach and legit QB prospect, Chicago must invest time and accept early lumps.

• Albert Breer’s Training Camp Report on Caleb Williams:

  • “The day I was there, Caleb Williams looked terrible… what Ben Johnson and his staff were trying to do… was let’s feed him through a firehose in the spring...and see what he can handle… and then over the course of camp…get a more resilient player.” (Albert Breer, 24:08)

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4. Training Camp Updates & NFL News

Timestamps: 25:04–35:40

Matt Stafford’s Health in L.A.

• Rams cautious with Stafford as he battles back issues.
• Colin predicts Sean McVay will deliberately manage Stafford's snaps; open to Garoppolo taking fourth-quarter reps or starting after tough pass-rush matchups.

Peyton Manning on Broncos, Bo Nix, and Playbook Evolution

• “We put it together in a way where…we might just call it Uber [instead of complex play calls]…” (Peyton Manning, 27:45)
• Sean Payton is streamlining verbiage, simplifying the playbook to aid Bo Nix’s development.
• John: “That is the advantage to having Cliff Kingsbury for Jaden Daniels… when you play the position, when you know the position, it is such an advantage.” (28:19)

Receivers’ Value: Terry McLaurin’s Extension

• Colin and John debate if Commanders should pay McLaurin "DK Metcalf money."
• John: “If you told me today I get McLaurin or DK Metcalf for three years, I would actually take Terry McLaurin 100% because he's just… low maintenance, great hands, greater route tree.” (31:17-32:05)
• Colin highlights McLaurin’s value as franchise “heartbeat and leader”, especially given the dysfunction in Washington.
• “He was the adult in the organization. That does have value to me, I think, beyond his production.” (John, 34:59)

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5. Are Quarterbacks Undervalued in the NFL?

Timestamps: 41:30–50:54

• Quentin Nelson (Colts) on Franchise Instability at QB:

  • Nelson laments Indy’s parade of QBs since Andrew Luck’s sudden retirement.
  • “You look around the league and see just like the consistency of having a ... quarterback behind you… Getting to build that chemistry… there is an advantage…” (Nelson, 41:40)

• Colin’s QB Value Argument:

  • "I honestly believe quarterback in the NFL is undervalued, underpaid and underrated. I know that sounds crazy…" (Colin, 41:50)
  • Cites teams like the Browns (loaded roster, no QB, still bad) vs. Packers, Chiefs, Bengals (great because of QB).
  • Team-building and analytics are over-rated if you lack a real QB; one elite QB supersedes all else.

• Tolerance for Misses on QB Prospects:

  • Colin defends Colts' ongoing “swings” at the position post-Luck. Ballard and staff were “trapped” by Luck’s timing.
  • John and Colin agree that it’s defensible for NFL teams to keep swinging at QBs given the position’s unrivaled value.

• Misses at Receiver are Common:

  • “Everybody misses on wide receiver picks… it is an incredibly difficult position to draft.” (Colin, 46:40)
  • Examples: Chiefs (misses on Skyy Moore, Rashee Rice problems), Eagles (Jalen Reagor bust).

• Sample Size and College Reps Matter:

  • John and Colin stress how college starters (Burrow, Mahomes, Purdy, Hurts) fare better in NFL vs. “traitsy” QBs with limited starts (Trey Lance, Anthony Richardson, Trubisky).
  • "The reps in college, whatever level you're at, matter... the larger the sample size is, it’s harder to hide." (Colin, 50:21)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Jerry Jones' Legacy:

  • “He didn’t pause. That’s business. Hundred miles an hour. And Jerry knew as an oil catter, a maverick, that you’re not going to go 100 for 100. But it didn’t stop him.” (Colin, 06:05)

• On Philadelphia Eagles’ Modern Aggression:

  • “Philadelphia gets deals. Philadelphia is always making moves. Philadelphia is decisive. Philadelphia's got a running play they invented. That used to be Jerry.” (Colin, 06:50)

• On Rodgers' Absence Impact:

  • “He’s never taken a snap with DK Metcalf. He's never taken a live snap with Arthur Smith. … He no longer has the talent to bulldoze mediocre teammates.” (Colin, 12:10)

• On Quarterback Value:

  • “I think quarterback is undervalued. … I would trade the Colts roster for the Bengals today. … Joe Burrow, single handedly, has them in the super bowl bubble.” (Colin, 45:55)

• On Patience for Young QBs:

  • “You just have to make Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams work. … For the first time…I can remember, the Bears actually got a coach that other people in the league wanted.” (Colin, 21:47–22:22)

• On Why College Starts Matter:

  • “The reps in college, whatever level you’re at, matter… Anthony Richardson, 13 career starts, gets to the Colts… Over their head when they, when they… No surprise.” (Colin, 50:54)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 02:48 – Cowboys documentary/deep dive
• 10:30 – Aaron Rodgers preseason absence, Steelers fit
• 19:56 – Quarterback patience; Bears/Caleb Williams
• 25:04 – Rams/Stafford health update; training camp notes
• 27:45 – Peyton Manning on Broncos playbook changes
• 31:17 – Commanders/McLaurin contract debate
• 41:30 – Discussion: Is the NFL undervaluing the quarterback position?
• 50:08 – College QB experience and NFL transition

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Tone and Style

The episode is conversational but sharp, combining Colin’s trademark strong, sometimes contrarian opinions with John Middlekauff’s ex-scout analysis. There’s a nostalgic but critical review of old-school NFL with clear, forward-looking takes on modern football. The language is accessible and lively, with plenty of memorable analogies (Dallas now vs. then; Eagles as the “new Cowboys”), illustrative stats, and inside-the-league references.

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Summary Takeaway

This hour blends reflection on the NFL’s past (Cowboys’ 90s dynasty, patience with QBs like Aikman) with a sharp critique of today’s league (Cowboys’ lack of identity, fleeting patience for high-pick quarterbacks). Colin argues that while football has evolved in complexity and impatience, the paramount importance of quarterback steadiness and bold, forward-thinking leadership remain the league’s truest drivers of success. Whether discussing Jerry Jones’ showmanship or the granular trouble spots for Aaron Rodgers, the show draws direct lines between historical lessons and today’s gridiron chessboard.

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Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[John Middlekauff]

Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Now, let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. It's a Wednesday. We are live. We're in Chicago. It is the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be watching or listening, thanks for making us part of your day. John Middelkoff and I here again in tow. So I sat last night, John and I watched several episodes of the Jerry Jones Netflix special, the Gambler, America's Team. Highly entertaining. Took a few notes. I know that's dorky, but I had to take some notes here. And it is wild. First of all, it's another example. We saw this with the Last Dance with Michael Jordan, and we see this with Jerry. When you're, when you're creating something special, even if you're Michael Jordan or you have Jimmy Johnson and Troy Aikman, it's hard. It's really, really hard for Michael Jordan. All those years getting tackled by the Pistons and the Celtics. But I want to, I want to start, John, with what was and what is with the Dallas Cowboys. So let's start with that. So I read a story this morning. Micah Parsons and the Cowboys headed towards a divorce in a messy contract saga. So I'm watching that Netflix special last night. And what is remarkable, Jerry Jones, at that point, it was almost broke. He spent every penny on the Dallas Cowboys. Jimmy Johnson told me that. I mean, he spent every penny on the Cowboys. And after the first year, they didn't know if they were going to make it, was he going to have to sell the team. But he was so aggressive and so decisive and had such a clear plan. Jerry Jones did that. It all worked. He would. He got Aikman and Jimmy Johnson and Emmett Smith and Michael Irvin and Dave wants that. And he was patient. And Jerry's still patient. Sometimes too much. But what you noticed with that Jerry is the aggressiveness, the decisiveness. He made strong, swift decisions. The Herschel Walker trade. And never look back. That's not the Cowboys today, where the Dak Prescott or Micah Parsons contracts engulf camp, engulf the team. And as I was watching that, I thought, you know, What? You know who the Dallas Cowboys of that era are? They're the Philadelphia Eagles. Now, the Eagles have a brand. The Eagles have the most aggressive gm. The Eagles occasionally make mistakes, rarely whiff, but they're decisive. They don't look back. If they make a move and they don't like it, they move off it. Carson Wentz immediately. They move off. Coaches who win Super Bowls if it's not a good fit. Today, decisive Tush push. Saquon Barkley deal. The Eagles today are the Cowboys in the Netflix special. Dallas now is reactive. Dallas then was proactive. Philadelphia now proactive. They made a deal three days ago. They're always making deals. And yet the Micah Parsons contract saga appears it's not going to end well. You knew he was an all pro as a rookie. Do what the Eagles do. Sign him early or trade him and get a fortune. But the Dak. I saw a headline this morning. The Cowboys negotiating tactics have probably cost them approximately $100 million. Think about this, Dak. Prescott's cap hit currently is bigger than AJ Brown, Saquon Barkley and Jalen Hurts combined. They don't get deals anymore. Philadelphia gets deals. Philadelphia is always making moves. Philadelphia is decisive. Philadelphia's got a running play they invented. That used to be Jerry. Remember when he pushed back on the NFL like a Pepsi deal and the NFL wanted to sue him? And I mean, Jerry just. He just didn't. Herschel Walker move. Buy this oil well, buy this football team. Fire Texram. Fire the late, great Tom Landry. He didn't pause. That's business. Hundred miles an hour. And Jerry knew as a. As an oil catter, a maverick, that you're not going to go 100 for 100. But it didn't stop him. Now there's video out there him acknowledging, yeah, I don't have the guts to do what the Rams did with golf and Stafford. I could not do that. Young Jerry could. I strongly suggest you watch it. Because I just couldn't stop thinking, those Cowboys, that's the Eagles now, kind of the envy of the league. We all go like, yeah, they're a little crazy up in Philadelphia. I don't know if Nick Sirianni is the guy. That's what they were saying about Jimmy Johnson. First couple years. Crazy. That Jimmy Johnson guy's crazy, crazy smart. So, I mean, it just. It was amazing to watch how charismatic the Cowboys were and how they lack an identity today. I don't even know what they are. But Jerry, and he has always been a showman. His dad was cool story he is on the red carpet for this show. For Jerry, the one thing that remains a constant, he knows the lights are on and he wants to perform. I do believe if we're not being looked at, then I'll do my part to get us looked at. Oh, it's wonderful to have the great athletes, have the great players, but there's something more there. There's sizzle, there's emotion and if you will, there's controversy. And that controversy is good stuff in terms of keeping and having people's attention. Yeah, we're watching. You got our attention. We just don't like the results. All right, so I haven't talked to Aaron Rodgers for a few days. It's about time. It's Wednesday, so Aaron Rodgers is not going to play in the preseason finale. I'm okay with it. He's sitting the preseason for second straight year he's not playing. But it's a little different this year because if you look at the early schedule for Pittsburgh, first game, Aaron Glenn, defensive guy, Jets. Next game, Mike McDonald, Seahawks, third game, Mike Vrabel, defensive guy, fourth game, best defensive coordinator in the league in my opinion, Brian Flores. And he's not taking a preseason snap. He had an abbreviated off season, so he's never taken a snap with DK Metcalf. He's never taken a live snap with Arthur Smith. PFF rates the offensive line at 21st and for whatever reason, blame who you want. The Steelers have not consistently run the ball for about six years, maybe eight, and that's Aaron's reality. So I do think Pittsburgh needs to get off to a hot start because in Aaron Rodgers career there has always been one statistic. There has always been one statistic that is hard to figure out. Aaron Rodgers has the sixth most quarterback starts of all time, yet he is tied for 25th in fourth quarter comebacks. Peyton Manning 43, Marino, Elway. In the 30s, he has fewer than Derek Carr, Ryan Tannehill, Andy Dalton. Well, his teams didn't trail a lot. Did Peyton Mannings did Marino and Elways. So why does Aaron need to start quickly? Because I've always used that stat and it belies what I've always thought to be true. Aaron's personality changes based on the score and his performance in games. One of the things I loved about Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, Patrick Mahomes and Tom Brady, they do not give a rip. If they've got two pick sixes in the first quarter, they'll play their arse off. They are foxhole guys, they are ballers, they don't care in game performance does not change their personality. Sometimes I'd watch Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning after a really bad pick and I'd be like, guys, man, scale back a little on the aggressiveness. Peyton was. That's not who Andrew Luck was. Aaron's different. Aaron gets dark, he gets moody, his demeanor changes, his facial expressions change. He'll throw the ball away. He in game pouts. That's what describes an Otherwise inexplicable stat. 25th all time and fourth quarter comebacks. He's got the six most starts is that if Aaron's not playing well, he's trailing late, he kind of bails. And if you look at this schedule, this schedule is defense, defense, defense, defense. Elite defensive coaches and he's never taken a live snap with DK Metcalfe, Arthur Smith, it's not a good old line. So I'm not saying he should play. I don't have a problem with him not playing. But I didn't love the abbreviated off season and I don't love it. 41 years old, he no longer has the talent to bulldoze mediocre teammates. And Pittsburgh offensively has got some mediocre guys. So Mike Tomlin says he's totally comfortable with Aaron Rodgers not taking a snap in the preseason.

[Mike Tomlin]

I'm comfortable what I'm seeing out here, obviously if I weren't, I would be playing them. Everyone else is under consideration. They're preparing as if they're going to play. There are a lot of variables in it, who's playing for Carolina and things of that nature that might provide worthy competition. But as I sit here today, all healthy outside of the four that I mentioned are preparing and scheduled to play.

[John Middlekauff]

41 year old, shaky O line, no run game, never taken live snaps in a game with the OC or DK Metcalf. And by the way, Aaron's a good looking guy. And I have said before, the league is more interesting with Aaron Rodgers playing than not playing. I don't think Pittsburgh is a good fit. I didn't necessarily think the jets was a good fit. Deep down I was rooting for him to go to Minnesota or San Francisco. But the Niners, like Brock Purdy and J.J. mcCarthy was drafted, so it didn't happen. But I'll say one thing, that cannot be the last helmet he wears. If you're watching me on television, you see this picture. That helmet is so outsized, I can see the shadows inside the helmet. He looks like a small plane parked in a Delta hangar. Somebody get that helmet. Fixed for Aaron Rodgers. See that thing right behind me? That cannot be the last picture of Aaron Rodgers. Tighten it up, Steelers. You can't get the run game right, at least get the helmet right for Aaron Rodgers. Okay, John, I Yesterday we had some fun on the show where we took the Bears schedule. I tried to be optimistic and I said life's about happiness, it's about expectations. So if you really look at the schedule for the Bears, if they go 9 and 8, you should actually come out of the season and feel pretty darn good that that probably means you split with your division. We're going to do that with another team today and we're not going to be as positive because this is my going downhill fast franchise. So don't go anywhere. We've got a lot going on today and an update with Caleb Williams and the Bears. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. FS1 the iHeartRadio app he's Mike Carmen.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'm Dan Byer and we have a fantasy football podcast called I Want yout're Flexed.

[John Middlekauff]

That's right, Dan.

[Colin Cowherd]

Every week we're gonna scour the waiver wire to find the pickups to turbo boost your fantasy lineup sits starts fantasy.

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Football players rankings to get you ready.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[John Middlekauff]

Listen to I Want yout Flex with Mike Harmon and me, Dan Beyer on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast and wherever you get your podcast Running a business.

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[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, real talk.

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[John Middlekauff]

All right. It's been reported Caleb Williams, other Bear starters will in the preseason finale against the Kansas City Chiefs. I am for that in most instances. I do like young quarterbacks taking snaps. So going back to watching the Cowboy special last night, you just, I mean, you just forget how much patient we patience we used to have with quarterbacks. Troy Aikman just got the, you know what kicked out of him for two and a half years his first two seasons starting. Forget the fact that he was 7 and 19. He had 20 touchdowns and 36 picks. And when he played Philadelphia, he was a pinata. I mean, they were just beating on him and. But you know what, they knew his talent and they stuck with him. At one point in year three, Steve Berline replaced him when he got banged up. And I mean, you couldn't tell at the time are they going to move on with. Berline was a Notre Dame guy. I think Berline was kind of a fiery leader and Jimmy Johnson liked that. And Jimmy was cutting guys left and right and. And you're like, man, this thing could go sideways fast. It wasn't until Troy Aikman got an aquarium and Jimmy came over with some Heinekens and they sat down and talked fish. Not the band, talked actual fish that they got along. So it was a different world and it should be with seven on seven camps. The coaching is better. Offensively. I think the Colts should move on from Anthony Richardson. I respected Arizona and Steve Keim moving off from Josh Rosen for Kyler Murray. I probably would have done the same thing. I get that. The difference with Caleb Williams, though is A, he's, he's more talented than those guys and B, Chicago's never had a great quarterback unless you count like, didn't Sid Luckman play in Chicago? I think, yeah, the guy's name Sid, it was probably in the 30s or 40s. So Green Bay, the Packers, just a train ride north, have twice drafted a quarterback in the first round and sat him for three years. So they're the ultimate impatience. But there's an argument to be made that you just have to make Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams work. There's an argument that make it work because for the first time that I can remember, the Bears actually got a coach that other people in the league wanted. They. They usually settle at head coach and they usually overdraft quarterbacks. Now, you can look at Jaden Daniels and Bo Nicks now, but a lot of people, most people had Caleb Williams number one. So the two most important people in the NFL to winning, quarterback one, coach two. And my entire life. The Bears settled at head coach, mostly an overdrafted quarterback. And this time they didn't. They didn't settle. They got the coach everybody wanted. He was the hot shot, best offensive coordinator in the league several years. They got him, he turned down other teams. The Bears got him an offensive coach, and Caleb Williams has superstar potential. What transpires, we'll see. But. But there is an argument than a Josh Rosen case, or in a Mitch Trubisky case, or in an Anthony Richardson case. You should be more decisive than you used to be in the Troy Aikman era. And I, I am in that camp. But I. There's an argument. Just stick it out. Just make it work. There's gonna be bad days, but you've Never had a 4,000 yard passer get it right. Just figure it out and we're going to be patient for the remainder of your contract. For Ben Johnson, remainder of the contract. Caleb, remainder of the contract. We're giving you four years. Figure it out. We know stylistically you're kind of different. We're sticking with it. We're going to be the most patient team in the league. If it looks rocky through two years. Albert Brer went to the Bears camp. Here's what he saw with Caleb.

[Albert Breer]

The day I was there, Caleb Williams looked terrible. There's no better. There's no sugar coating it. What Ben Johnson and his staff were trying to do with Caleb was let's feed him through a fire hose in the spring and then early in training camp and let's see what he can handle and let's see what he's good at, and let's see what he's not good at and let's see how he learns. Let's see how he takes those early lumps and is able to compartmentalize them. And then over the course of camp, the hope was that they would get a more resilient player. Who's playing faster and as coaches, they would get a better idea of what he was best at. So they could build an offense based on that.

[John Middlekauff]

Just saying. They're playing against the Chiefs in the preseason. They'll probably win. Could be winning again like Buffalo. Decisively. They need the snaps because they got to make this work. John Middlekop with the news. No, no, no, turn on the news. This is the Herd line news.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, Colin, we're starting to get some good news out of Rams camp. Matt Stafford was able to practice in full during yesterday's practice, a day after making his training camp debut on Monday. Due to a back issue. McVay said that Stafford looked good and has taken steps in the right direction, but he also stayed cautious and avoided any major declarations about his week one availability. Are we sure, Colin, that the Matt Stafford situation is on the up and up or is this a back issue that's going to. We're going to have to monitor by the day?

[John Middlekauff]

Well, I mean if, if you told me over under on Jimmy Garoppolo playing one and a half games, I'd probably take the over. Like I could see. Here's what I could see, John. I don't know what the Ram schedule looks like, but if wherever the Rams buy is, I could absolutely see McVeigh saying, you know what, here's a two week stretch. Matt take off two weeks of practice and the game after the buy play Garoppolo. So Jimmy's got two weeks to prepare. So the buy is in week eight. I could see, I could absolutely see after the game you're at Baltimore, at Jaguars. Good pass rushes that McVeigh says, I'm not going to play you, Matt, until the at the Niners game, division rival in week 10. Bye and saints. I'm giving that to Garoppolo because the Saints are arguably the weakest team in the league. So after you play teams with pass rushes, Baltimore, Jacksonville, San Francisco, Bosa, I think what they're going to do is find moments. I also think if this team's defense creates some blowouts, Garoppolo takes fourth quarter snaps. That's not the way it works in the NFL. But I can see them basically, John taking a very measured and specific approach with Matt. Give him snaps off if you can.

[Colin Cowherd]

My question is this. I think the Texans are going to have one of, if not the best defense in the league and they got a real pass rush. Same thing with the Titans and same thing with the Eagles those first three games. It's inevitable. He's going to get hit, and he's going to get hit hard. I mean, it's kind of his style, right? He stays in there, he hangs in there, is what makes him an elite player. And the thing with the back, we've talked about this. Steve Kerr couldn't coach with a bad back. Those get going, you can't even stand up, let alone play NFL quarterback. So this is going to be something to me that worries McVay all season long. Collins next dynasty. The Broncos have gotten a lot of hype heading into the season, with some picking them as the team to beat in the AFC west over the Chiefs. Most of their success last season could be attributed to the duo of Peyton and Bo Nix. And Peyton discussed how the playbook has evolved around his young quarterback.

[Peyton Manning]

We put it together in a way where instead of calling 22 Flanker Drive halfback burst, you know, of course, naturally, we might just call it Uber.

[John Middlekauff]

Oh, okay. Got it.

[Peyton Manning]

As a driver, these players are. Are operating and thinking differently and more spontaneously. There's an entirely new element to the RPOs that he's comfortable with, that we're comfortable with, that we've researched and we develop, you know, those into the plan.

[John Middlekauff]

So here my take. How many defensive coaches could sit down and do that to the offensive playbook like Sean Payton? If you don't think Bo Nix has an advantage over other young quarterbacks having Sean Payton, we just redid the playbook and shortened it. And we're creative. And it's like that is the advantage to having Cliff Kingsbury for Jaden Daniels, who, by the way, played quarterback in college. That's Lane Kiffin, your alma mater, Fresno State. When you play the position, when you know the position, it is such an advantage that in year two of his growth, we're going to redo the playbook.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, what's the knock? A lot on these, you know, young quarterbacks in college is their playbook is so simplistic and the verbiage is just one word. Well, the Sean Paytons, the Peyton Mannings, the Kyle Shanahans. You got to read a book to call one play. What Sean Payton. We just changed it. We just call it Uber now and made it easier on everyone, not even just the quarterback, but the other players on the team. So to me, this is evolving. I would imagine all the good offensive coaches are doing this. You don't just need to be complicated for the sake of being complicated. Well, it's about, you know, being efficient and executing and scoring touchdowns.

[John Middlekauff]

Well, the other thing is between Cortland Sutton, they really love Mims. And there was a story I saw yesterday that the Oregon receiver in year two, Troy Franklin. Yeah, I'll think about this. John, if you think your personnel is better, deception doesn't become as crucial. I mean, take Philadelphia, take Detroit. Yeah, we like our guys. We're going to run the ball with Jameer Gibbs on third and three, try to stop us. So I do think when you get a rookie and there's some deception, you're trying to give the rookie space and time and. But I think Peyton may look at his personnel and go, you know, we can go toe to toe with Kansas City and our young players are developing offensively. If this Harvey kids as good as everybody says, the second round running back, everybody loves this kid. I do think Pete Carroll once told me this, the better players you have, you should allow them to play as fast as they can. And I think Denver looks at his roster now and thinks we have a top 5, 6 roster in the league.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, speaking of Pete Carroll, I think if you like the Broncos, and I know you do, I do as well. Their comp might be that early. Russell Wilson, Seattle team, Marshawn lynch, the defense. And then Russell made plays here and there. And as the season went on, he got a lot better. That to me, is their comp. Okay. Another team that came on last year kind of out of nowhere, the Commanders, they had an incredible season last year, surprising everyone. No one saw that coming, and they lost the Eagles, obviously, in the NFC championship game. But Jaden Daniels and Terry McClaurin's chemistry was a big factor for the success. But the wide receiver, he's obviously in the middle of a hold in and looking for a new deal. McLaurin is reportedly looking to land a $33 million a year deal in his next contract and wants a deal similar to DK Metcalf. Colin, do the commanders and Terry McLaurin need to come to terms just for the sake of Jaden Daniels?

[John Middlekauff]

Well, you know, it's funny about this. I don't think Adam Peters in Washington should have to pay any player based on a mistake by another team. I thought the Steelers. I mean, DK Metcalf is the most penalized receiver since he entered the league. He can be a bit temperamental. He's a tremendous athlete, and I've met him and like him. But if you told me today I get McLaurin or DK Metcalf for three years, I would actually take Terry McLaurin 100% because he's just. He fits it's low maintenance, he's got great hands. He, I think he runs a greater route tree. I would take Terry McLaurin. So that's always been an interesting thing to me. Fox shouldn't have to pay me what somebody else at another company makes if they view the contract is unrealistic. Now that's certainly going to be their argument. But I've always understood that for teams like, okay, the Steelers paid this for Metcalf. That's their problem. They don't know. They don't know what they're doing offensively. I would have no problem paying him in the 28 to 30 million. Put that guys put the graphic up again of what receivers are getting paid. So I would take Terry McLaurin. I would not take him over Jamar Chase or Justin Jefferson. I don't think he's as dynamic as CD Lamb, but I would pay him more than DK Metcalf, Garrett Wilson. So I look at this, I think he's in the armor on St. Brown class.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think, I think where it gets complicated is there's an. I was told this, this offseason with T.J. watt. I'm like, do you think that Steelers would trade him? They said even if they thought about it from a financial standpoint, he's the heartbeat and the leadership of the team. He's the team captain, not the quarterback. T.J. watt with the Steelers, that's kind of been McLaurin on the Commanders. Now, Adam Peters might say, well, Jaden Daniels, rookie year, he shifted. Now he's the go to guy. And typically DK Metcalf. John Schneider, widely viewed as one of the best GMs in the league, did not want to give him a third contract. I know DK asked for a trade, but they're like, yeah, sure, see ya. You know, usually these older wide receivers, this is tape. Terry McLaren's third contract and at the end of the day, Adam Peters and Dan Quinn, I'm sure they really like him. They didn't draft him. He's not their guy. So they're probably open to a lot of different ideas. It's a predicament. It's not a. To me, it's. It's a tough situation. Both sides get where Terry's coming from. And I can understand the Washington front office going, is this where we want to invest a lot of our rookie cap space because of Jaden's contract moving forward?

[John Middlekauff]

You know, John think, you know, you're a former NFL scout. You know Andy Reid, when they brought in Debo Samuel, I Liked the move because I thought stylistically and for a young quarterback, he's a chess piece for sure. And I think young quarterbacks and Cliff Kingsbury will know how to use a chess piece. What I didn't think about was how it would land for Terry McLaurin maybe. And McLaurin looked at it and thought, that's fine. But you do get, I'm the number one. Like, he's the two. He's the chess piece. You don't have to use me as a chess piece. I can break guys down and get open. I run better. I'm healthier, I'm more productive.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, and that's the problem. The amount of money Deebo's making this year, it's the last year of his contract, and Terry McLaurin is set to make is basically the same. So these are human beings. Terry goes, wait, I scored 13 touchdowns here last year. This was your guy in San Francisco who peaked three years ago. And we're making the same money in any line of work. Money's all relative.

[John Middlekauff]

It would tick that guy off.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I understand it was a bold move by Adam Peters. I understood it.

[John Middlekauff]

I kind of liked it.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think you're getting a motivated Debo Samuel. I do think that impacted Terry McLaurin when he just looked at. I'm not making the same as this guy this year.

[John Middlekauff]

And his conduct, McLaurin was better than the former owner's conduct. So McLaren's like, the whole operation was a circus. I was the adult in the organization. The owner was inappropriate. I was the good guy. That does have value to me, I think, beyond his production. The second most leverage Terry McLaurin has is him. The human being. Totally. This has been a tire fire, a Hazmat spill up a franchise. And he was the guy. You were like, what a professional. What a grownup. He's just. Every day, he's just punching the card, showing up for work. Absolutely. That has value in any industry.

[Colin Cowherd]

Agreed.

[John Middlekauff]

John Midkoff of the News. Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the herd lie news, you know, especially it. It's like, I understand back in the 70s and 80s if rock stars trashed hotel rooms, right? Like, but if you didn't, and you didn't cost me as a manager, like 40 grand, every Ritz Carlton you stayed at, there's value in that, too. Being a grown up, even if you don't quite sell as many tickets to the concert. Being lower maintenance, being an adult. Not everybody's Taylor Swift. Not everybody was van Halen in the 80s. Not everybody is Randy Moss talented. So if you're Omar on st. Brown is really good. Total adult, total grown up. Great route tree mentor in the locker room. Unbelievable. Film room better every week. Like you don't have to be. I mean there's like one Justin Jefferson on the planet. There was one Jerry Rice, one Calvin Johnson or Randy Moss below that. How you behave matters. I know it shouldn't. At wide receiver it does. I'd pay Terry McLaurin because I like the human Amaran Saint Brown to me at 30 million, I'd argue he's underpaid. I mean outside of Panay Sewell, I mean like, like that's the heartbeat of the offense to me, not the quarterback. All right. Is it possible quarterback is undervalued in the NFL? Thoughts on that next Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

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[John Middlekauff]

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[John Middlekauff]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, real talk.

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[John Middlekauff]

You know, I love when players are brutally honest. Quentin Nelson, Colts. Chris Ballard drafted him years ago. And you know, people are like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Interior offensive lineman. The guy's a stud. He's a leader. He's a stud. And I just thinking about this. I honestly believe quarterback in the NFL is undervalued, underpaid and underrated. And I know that sounds crazy, but I want you to listen from an offensive lineman's perspective because the Colts are Now on their 11th starting quarterback since Andrew Luck, who I love but hosed him, retired right before the season. Now again, guys can retire when they want to retire. Timing wasn't great, but. But he was in pain. And we all understood at the time. You got, you got to take care of your body, your family. But listen to Quentin Nelson's perspective of what has happened to the Colts at quarterback. Total honesty. You know, you look around the league and see just like the consistency of having a like Patrick Mahomes or like quarterback behind you. That's like been the franchise player for years and years and years. And getting to build that chemistry with that quarterback year after year is something that there is an advantage to. Yeah. You ever notice that Travis Kelsey and Mahomes or Brady and Edelman and Gronk on those third and fourth downs, it's like they can read each other's mind. Because they can. Right? I mean that when you watch these great connections between the quarterback and the receiver. Yeah. Jeff Saturday and Peyton Manning, center quarterback for years. It's like those guys, they. Jeff Saturday and Peyton Manning, two smart guys. They knew what each other was thinking. When Ray Lewis is sneaking up on the line, they know exactly what the other is going to do. Like there are just. I feel bad for the Colts and I've said this. Think about this. This is why I think quarterbacks undervalued. Think about all the good players. The Cleveland Browns in recent years have drafted Nick Chubb, Miles Garrett, Denzel Ward, David and Joku. The guard, Joel Betonio, tremendous guard. They have hit on. They built a great offensive line. They stole Nick Chubb in the second round. They can't get quarterback right and they may have the worst team in the league now. They're going to keep four quarterbacks, none great Houston. The McNair ownership was arguably the bleakest ownership situation in the league. They were the three previous years before CJ Stroud landed there. This is nothing against the Miko Ryan's, but the three years before CJ Stroud losing his franchise in the league dead.

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[John Middlekauff]

People last year like they took a step back. I don't know, maybe your TV doesn't work. Mine does. They made the playoffs in the AFC. That was a down year for Houston. C.J. stroud. The packers have been consistent for 30 years. There is one reason. Because none of you like Mike McCarthy. They're always good at quarterback. I mean the Tampa bay bucks went 17 years, 17 with a lot of good players without winning a playoff game. Got Brady super bowl, got Baker playoffs. I think quarterback is undervalued. I have said that. I think analytics can be overvalued by the nerds. I think three point shots are great over the course of a regular season, but I don't think the statistics work in the playoffs. Where in the NBA mid range jumpers and physical play matter in the playoffs. In baseball analytics. What are you kidding? In baseball playoffs you'll, you'll bring a starter out of the bullpen. I mean it's just baseball and basketball playoffs are different in the NFL. I don't care what the analytics say. If Andrew Luck had been able to get healthy, this team would have been a Super bowl team. I mean I would trade the Colts roster for the Bengals today. Especially o line run game head coach. I would trade the Colts and the Bengals roster today. I looked at the NFL odds on the Bengals. People are like, you know, they got a shot. It's not the roster, it's not the defense, it's not the run game. The head coach is okay. Owners bad. Joe Burrow is single handedly has them in the super bowl bubble. So I mean the commanders, I mean I really like Dan Quinn. Dan Quinn with Sam Howell at quarterback is not getting to the NFC championship. So you can talk about analytics all you want in sports. It's just a quarterback. And that's why I have defended the Indianapolis Colts on the 11 quarterbacks. If Andrew Luck had retired even mid season Thanksgiving or right after the season, okay, Ballard and the guys in the front office can figure it out. But retiring right before the season, I'd actually argue the Colts have done a fairly remarkable job. They got Carson Wentz who had 27 touchdowns, seven picks, was actually successful or say didn't want him. Philip Rivers won 11 games, was successful. I mean actually there's been moments with Joe Flacco and Philip Rivers and Carson Wentz where you're like, man, they got thrown into a tough spot. And, and, and so the Anthony Richardson pick, I talked to Chris about it, they know it wasn't perfect. Everybody kind of knew he had 13 college stars, he wasn't accurate in high school or college. They knew that. What they are hoping was we got Shane Siken and Shane makes everybody great. I mean, Jalen Hurt, second round pick, looked like the best quarterback in the league. You're like, wow, so if Shane Steichen can't get this to work, it's not going to work. It's like when, when Kyle Shanahan's like, I'm going to give up on Trey Lance. Okay, that told you right there. He's not a starter. Doesn't mean he can't make the league. Good kid. Doesn't mean Anthony Richardson can't stay in the league. Good kid. But when a quarterback whisperer says, yeah, that's not going to win work. It's when McVeigh went and got Baker Mayfield, it's like, wait a minute, McVeigh's into Baker Mayfield. That told me, okay, Baker, Baker can play. Baker's gonna get, he's gonna get a second or third act. When, when, by the way, when Kyle Shanahan went and got Sam Darnold. I don't need you to start, but I really like you that I knew McVeigh like Darnold. Shanahan liked Sam Darnold. Kevin O' Connell like Sam Darnold. I knew that especially Shanahan and Kevin o'. Connell, they really liked Arnold. So I knew he could play. I knew he could play. So I mean, this situation with the Colts is quarterback is undervalued. You have to have one. And so I'm going to defend people when they take swings because they're trapped because they had. The late great Jim Ursay was incredibly impulsive, especially at the end. I mean, it's. We were talking about this during the break. I feel the same way about quarterbacks. If you have a quarterback. I mean, look at the Kansas City Chiefs receiving core the last three years. Guys are getting in trouble off the field. They got gadget guys. They have. I mean, Brett Veach doesn't whiff a lot. Some Skymore whiffs. There's Rasheed Rice problem. Xavier Worthy's kind of a gadget guy. And Mahomes makes it work. I mean, they really, they have receivers, a hard position to draft. There's a lot of immaturity at times and they've missed on some wide receiver picks like miss badly and they don't miss badly on much. But everybody misses on wide receiver picks. The packers, the Chiefs, the Eagle. By the way, Howie Roseman's the best GM in the league. Remember the kid they took John out of the first round of the TCU Rager Rager with that didn't work for a first round pick. He bounced around the league. So that is an incredibly difficult position to draft wide receiver. I mean we like John lynch and we like Kyle Shannon. They've missed on wide receiver pick. So I guess my point is I'm defending the Colts because I think the position is actually underappreciated relative to wins.

[Colin Cowherd]

Do you know what I think we've learned and we've seen it now with Trey Lance and we've seen it with Anthony Richardson. You're parcel celebrity quarterback. I agree the all these guys are celebrities but he was big on the number of starts you made in college.

[John Middlekauff]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

And when you look around the NFL even the top guys, you know burrow multiple year starter. Mahomes played forever. But let's go the young guys, Jalen Hurst, Alabama, Oklahoma, ton of starts. Purdy four years. Iowa State, Dak Prescott, ton of reps at Mississippi. The reps in college, whatever level you're at matter Anthony Richardson, Trey Lance barely played. Shocker. They were over their head when they, when they Mitch Trubisky, one year starter. Awful. Right. So to me the because you can't the larger the sample size is, it's harder to hide.

[John Middlekauff]

Yeah. And I and I also think so much of it's like golf. It's just swings. You just have to spend so much time at the driving range so you, you have to be able to grab a club like a Phil Mickelson. And he knows. I mean I've if you read the articles written about Phil Mickelson on his club choice and his understanding of his game. He knows to the yard what every club does. He knows what it does in the morning, he knows what it does in humidity. Phil Mickelson knows to the yard his clubs high elevation, desert, moist air, dry air. And that's just reps that you know 16 year old golfer knows that. And so when you're playing college, like I've said about Jackson Dart if you start for three years under Lane Kiffin's offense, you are ready to play in the NFL because Lane's going to put heat on you. And by the way Jackson had some bad starts like the Florida game. I'm like I'm out. But you know what like he got.

[Colin Cowherd]

The reps isn't that good? You know Patrick Mahomes struggled a lot. Brock Purdy struggled a lot. Josh Allen, they went into all these games, they lost a lot of games. They knew what it was like Anthony Richardson 13 career starts gets to the Colts who have the other thing Trey Lance and Anthony Richardson have in common. They went to teams with playoff aspirations. You didn't get to go to the Jags where it's like oh, we win six games, great. You better win ten or like Anthony. I don't know if Anthony Richardson is on the team in two weeks. Colin, I don't know if you can get benched in this situation. Stay. I would not be stunned at all if he's traded not for much but in the next couple of weeks to a team heck, like a McVeigh and Andy Reid just bringing me. Let me work with them and get you for nothing.

[John Middlekauff]

Carson Palmer is joining us, the three time Pro Bowler next second hour coming up. Well, we all have juggles and struggles.

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[Colin Cowherd]

Ever go to McNachos on game day and realize the cheese is missing or.

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[Danielle Fishel]

This is Danielle Fishel from Pod Meets World. Parents, quick question. When is the last time you won snack time? The other day I handed my son a perfectly portioned Pinterest level snack and he traded it for a Mott's Applesauce pouch. I'm not mad, just impressed. And that's why Mott's no Sugar added Applesauce pouches are perfect to keep on hand. They're made with real apples packed in a super easy pouch. Perfect for tossing in a lunchbox, keeping in the car, or grabbing as you're running out the door. Plus, they're a good source of vitamin C and kids love them. Win, win. Make sure your kid wins. Snack time with Mott's Real apples make real good applesauce. Learn [e-mail] this is an iHeart podcast.