THE HERD - Hour 1 - USA loses to Venezuela, Maxx Crosby opens up, who should stars want to play with?

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Hour 1

Date: March 18, 2026
Host: Jason McIntyre (filling in for Colin Cowherd), with Rachel Nichols
Special Guest: Matt Leinart

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Herd dives into a packed slate of headline sports topics:

• USA’s close loss to Venezuela in the World Baseball Classic and the event’s cultural significance.
• The NFL’s swirling rumors and fallout surrounding Maxx Crosby’s almost-trade to the Baltimore Ravens, including firsthand emotions from Crosby himself.
• A spirited debate on which NBA superstar other stars should want to team with: Luka Doncic or Nikola Jokic?
• The latest NFL offseason narratives, including the Miami Dolphins’ rebuild, Kyler Murray’s future, and the quarterback carousel in Minnesota.
• An in-depth discussion on jersey retirements in college football with Matt Leinart. The episode is rich with personal anecdotes, passionate debates, and first-person perspectives, maintaining the energetic and slightly irreverent style that defines "The Herd."

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. USA Loses to Venezuela – World Baseball Classic

[03:27–09:02]

• Recap of Game: The U.S. bats went cold, falling to Venezuela 3–2 despite a late heroics from Bryce Harper. “Our bats just were not there...We end the World Baseball Classic 4 for 48. They just went to sleep.” (Jason, 04:30)

  Notable Highlight:

  • Venezuela’s Abreu opened the scoring with a deep solo homer, igniting the dugout and the crowd:
    “Abreu was so geeked, the helmet comes off. He’s just booking it to celebrate.” (Jason, 05:58)
  • Bryce Harper, struggling all tournament, ties the game late with a dramatic home run:
    “Better late than never.” (Jason, 06:24) “Bryce Harper has tied the champ. The salute as Bryce Harper connects changes everything.” (Game call, 06:33)

• Venezuela’s Cultural Moment and Post-Game Interview:

  • The players’ passion and emotion were palpable. Suarez’s postgame interview captured it:
    “Nobody believe in Venezuela, but now we win the championship...We are family here. That’s why we play with passion, with love, because we feel the jersey, we feel our country in front of us.” (Suarez, 08:25–09:02)

• Broader Implications for Baseball:

  • Questions about the event’s timing: Should the WBC be during MLB All-Star break, earlier in the year? Concerns about injuries, readiness, and league cooperation persist.
  • “World Baseball Classic, we don’t win it, but we were there at the end and it was great for baseball. Spring training continues and opening day is around the corner.” (Jason, 09:00)

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2. The Maxx Crosby Trade Fiasco & Athlete Transparency

[09:02–12:39]

• Maxx Crosby’s Failed Trade:

  • A whirlwind of NFL drama: Crosby’s trade from the Raiders to the Ravens (for two first-rounders) was agreed to and then reversed, sending shockwaves through both fan bases and calling the Ravens’ strategy into question.
  • Maxx Crosby, on his podcast, shares raw emotion: “I’m so excited, like, fired up, you know what I mean? ... The first thought in my head, like, I was terrified. So it just kind of hit me... I wasn’t supposed to be in Baltimore. And that’s it. I’m meant to be a Raider. It’s through my damn core.” (Crosby, 11:55)

• Analysis of the Fallout:

  • Jason speculates on underlying narratives: doubts about Crosby’s meniscus and Ravens’ hesitation, cross-talk about Lamar Jackson’s contract situation, and broader implications for both franchises.
  • “Is it too hot of a take to say the Raiders are bigger contenders for a playoff spot next year than the Baltimore Ravens are? I don’t know if the Ravens are going to be better, folks.” (Jason, 13:38)
  • Praise for Crosby’s openness: “I think Max Crosby saying more... is going to spur more athletes to come out and talk on podcasts about their experiences. I thought it was great, great input.” (Jason, 15:48)

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3. Who Should NBA Stars Want to Play With: Jokic vs. Luka?

[20:05–26:42]

• Brian Windhorst’s Thought Experiment:

  • Windhorst suggests: “If I was an NBA player right now, I would be doing everything I possibly could to play with Jokic.” (Windhorst, as paraphrased by Jason, 21:04)
  • Jason’s reaction: “Why would anyone want to play with Joker over Luka Doncic? ... Luka just turned 27. A four year difference is enormous in this discussion.” (Jason, 22:18)

• Rachel Nichols’ Perspective:

  • “The level that Jokic is a multiplier is higher, right? ... Because of the passes, because of what he does, because of all the different places on the court he takes attention.” (Rachel, 24:13)
  • She pushes back on the age argument and questions whether Luka’s extensive pro mileage makes him “an old 27.” “He’s been playing professional basketball since he was 12 years old. Remember, he went and played for Barcelona.” (Rachel, 25:20)

• Cultural & Playstyle Contrasts:

  • “There’s no one like Nikola Jokic. So by definition, whoever comes in is going to be a compliment.” (Rachel, 25:50)
  • It’s a tight debate: “You’re choosing between the bestest of options.” (Rachel, 26:27)

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4. NFL Offseason Hot Topics: Dolphins, QB Movement, and More

[26:58–36:38]

• Miami Dolphins’ Fire Sale and Running Back Devon Achane:

  • Rachel reports Achane is “off the table” for trade.
    “Do you buy it, Jason, that he is just off the table, untouchable or do you think... the offers aren’t very good?” (Rachel, 27:50)
  • Jason: “I don’t trust anything the Dolphins say at this point. ... If you got the chance to move off Achane, I think you probably take the best deal you can get.” (Jason, 27:50)
  • Discussion on where Achane could fit, what the Dolphins’ strategy is (test-driving Malik Willis at QB), and the logic of keeping a key weapon for evaluation year.

• Bryce Harper’s Sportsmanship & Tournament Vibes:

  • Rachel highlights Harper hugging opponents postgame: “You know baseball. You don’t see the Yankees rushing on the field to congratulate the Dodgers...I think this is nice. And it sort of epitomizes that this tournament is different.” (Rachel, 31:29)
  • “This tournament lifted baseball up... So many more Americans were paying attention.” (Rachel, 32:19)

• Minnesota Vikings Quarterback Confusion:

  • Kevin O’Connell, Vikings head coach, reportedly pitches Kyler Murray as a potential long-term starter, raising questions about J.J. McCarthy’s future.
    “This could be a long off season for him. Like he needs to lock in, as the kids say, and there’s no room for error here.” (Jason, 33:24)
  • Rachel: “O’Connell’s been a quarterback whisperer...I think that if he thinks J.J. McCarthy isn’t it, I think that tells you a lot about J.J. McCarthy.” (Rachel, 33:59)
  • Jason wonders if there simply isn't broader NFL interest in Kyler Murray.

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5. Jersey Retirement Ethics & College Football with Matt Leinart

[40:28–48:29]

• Matt Leinart on His Podcast Controversy:

  • Matt clarifies: USC has approached him in the past about unretiring his number for recruits. He refuses:
    “Absolutely not. I’m not going to ever let anyone wear my jersey other than my boys...These conversations did happen. I said, dud, no chance I’m going to unretire my number.” (Leinart, 42:15–43:57)

  • Asked if he’d reconsider for a great, committed player:
    “Listen, if his name is Jason or Cannon Leinart, absolutely.” (Leinart, 44:24) “That number is one...It represents what we were able to accomplish at USC...I’ll die on the hill. If it’s a Leinart last name...go for it.” (Leinart, 44:31)

• Rachel Nichols on the Meaning of Retirement:

  • “The only thing that is is saying that no one can have their number anymore. That’s the thing. If you don’t feel that way, don’t retire the number.” (Rachel, 48:38)
  • “This isn’t just like a prize that comes in a Cracker Jacks box...This is the honor.” (Rachel, 49:11)

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6. Rapid Fire – NCAA Tournament & Other Topics

[50:03–end]

• Jason teases a ranking of the top five players in the NCAA tournament, highlighting the difficulty of leaving out notable talents.
• Some light banter about retired jerseys, with Jason suggesting he may have his jersey retired at his rec league, and Rachel joking that maybe that’s why they wound up in sports media instead.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “I still get goosebumps watching that and listening to it. An awesome comeback.” – Jason on Bryce Harper’s game-tying HR for USA (06:53)
• “We are family here. That’s why we play with passion, with love, because we feel the jersey, we feel our country in front of us. That’s why this is a lot for us as players, as people, as a human being. And as Venezuela now we are the champion.” – Suarez postgame (08:29)
• “I wasn’t supposed to be in Baltimore. And that’s it. I’m meant to be a Raider. It’s through my damn core.” – Maxx Crosby (11:55)
• “The level that Jokic is a multiplier is higher, right?... I agree with Brian [Windhorst] that if you were a young star or any star who just is looking for that title, I think that I would rather go play with Jokic.” – Rachel (24:13, 24:21)
• “Rachel, do you have a jersey retired in anything?” – Jason
  “No. Come on. Maybe that’s why we do this job.” – Rachel (49:45)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------|---------------| | Show Open, Sports Headlines | 03:27 | | USA–Venezuela WBC Recap and Analysis | 04:10–09:02 | | Maxx Crosby Trade Fiasco + Player Podcast Era | 09:02–15:48 | | Luka Doncic vs. Nikola Jokic Teammate Debate | 20:05–26:42 | | NFL Rumors: Dolphins & Achane, Vikings QBs | 26:58–36:38 | | Matt Leinart on Jersey Retirements | 40:28–48:29 | | NCAA Tournament Player Rankings Tease | 50:03–51:00 |

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Summary Takeaways

• The World Baseball Classic captured enormous fan energy and international passion—even in U.S. defeat.
• Maxx Crosby's trade drama underscores how transparent and publicly emotional athlete narratives have become in the podcast age.
• The NBA’s center vs. wing debate (Jokic/Luka) is as much about style and substance as age and skill, splitting even seasoned analysts.
• NFL franchise moves—particularly at running back and quarterback—are shrouded in PR, calculation, and sometimes confusion.
• Matt Leinart’s firm stance on jersey retirement reignites debate on sports traditions in the NIL and transfer portal era.
• The show maintains its trademark wit, with personality-driven asides and industry-insider banter.

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This summary captures the heart, insight, and analysis-driven banter that makes The Herd a must-listen for sports fans seeking both informed perspective and genuine personality.

Transcript

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Now let's get this party started.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.

[Jason McIntyre]

It's Wednesday. Welcome to the Herd, wherever you may be. It's me, Jason McIntyre, filling in for Colin Cowherd. No, I don't remember what he says at the outset of every show. I'm joined by Rachel Nichols. We have a banger of a show today. Oh my gosh. World Baseball Classic thriller Texas taking down NC State in the final second in the NCAA tournament. Obviously Lakers Rockets part deux tonight. Rachel, last night was a big sports night and that doesn't even include the gray foxes winning a 35 and up men's league championship. But I know the World Baseball Classic. You've got red on today. Yeah, usa. We didn't quite get there. I mean last night.

[Rachel Nichols]

Bats, man, like what we. You and I talked yesterday and we talked to all the experts this week and we expected the pitching to maybe come into play. And why won't these major league teams, it's the championship. Let them pitch. Guess what? Pitching was fine.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, the bats hit a ball. Yeah.

[Rachel Nichols]

And so, you know, I wonder, I just sort of wonder if any of that will influence the makeup of the team three years from now or if it's just unlucky.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's a good thought. Let's start there. Let's start with the bats. They fell asleep last night for the Americans. We lose 32 to Venezuela. A thrilling comeback thanks to Bryce Harper. We've got some amazing highlights and folks, the World Baseball Classic was really about the vibes and the energy and you could just tell Miami was jumping. The party was crazy last night. Venezuela takes us down with a impressive ninth inning. And as Rachel noted, our bats just were not there. I mean, we end the World Baseball Classic 4 for 48. They just went to sleep. We could not do anything. And listen, the new modern analytics in baseball call for. Hey, swing for the fences. Strikeouts or home runs and that's fine. In 162 game season, in a seven game series, it's probably okay. But in a one game setting we didn't deliver, so let's start. The first highlight we have is Venezuela going up 2 nothing. Abreu with a deep solo shot. And at this point, the Americans are, like, on the ropes. Watch, by the way, as a Braeu rounds the base as the entire dugout comes out to celebrate. That was kind of the vibe at the World Baseball Classic.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

We thought the offenses would establish themselves. Here's a drive to center field off of the bat of a Breu. Will, you're a Breu hits it out.

[Jason McIntyre]

You usually don't see guys burn around the bases. Abreu was so geeked, the helmet comes off. He's just booking it to celebrate. And at this point, you're thinking, oh, my gosh. In trouble. Holy cow. We. We. We got a zero on the board. We've got the best of the best bats in American Major League Baseball. We got nothing. And then Bryce Harper, who had been struggling throughout the World Baseball Classic, steps up in the 8th and delivers this classic.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Machado's 10 pitch. Harper sends a fly ball to deep center field.

[Jason McIntyre]

Better late than never.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Bryce Harper has tied the champ. The salute as Bryce Harper connects changes everything.

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean, folks, it's 12 hours later. I still get goosebumps watching that and listening to it. An awesome comeback. Now at that point, you're thinking, okay, we got this. This is what we do. Okay? We own baseball. That's our sport. America's pastime. And just like we saw in hockey, the Americans came back to take down Canada. And just like we saw with Steph Curry and the Olympic team, we rallied in the semifinals, we rallied in the final. We got this right. It was not meant to be. And ultimately, the U.S. which led the World Baseball Classic in strikeouts at the plate, the hitters just couldn't deliver. They watched Venezuela, you know, sacrifice fly, get on base. You do the little things that you've got to to pull away. And here's the call for the 32 victory. Joe Davis on the mic.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Venezuela, the best in baseball. For a team that was carrying a country, a World Baseball Classic title.

[Jason McIntyre]

As great stuff from Joe Davis and carrying a country. We're not going to get into the political ramifications of what went down in January in Venezuela, but obviously, a lot going on there, and you could just tell the passion and the excitement. And then afterwards, Suarez talked to Ken Rosenthal, and, folks, this is like an interview for the ages. Look at the passion, okay? This looks like the greatest moment of his life. This is an incredible interview. Can you describe what this means for

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

your Country, I mean, what can I say about this?

[Matt Leinart]

It's amazing.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

And nobody believe in Venezuela, but now we win the championship today need is a celebration for all the Venezuelan country. We not just teammates, we are family. This team is awesome. We are family here. That's why we play with passion, with love, because we feel the jersey, we feel our country in front of us. That's why this is a lot for us as players, as people, as a human being. And as Venezuela now we are the champion.

[Jason McIntyre]

So naturally, you know, we lose 3, 2. We lost to Japan. Remember the last time Trout struck out in the ninth, I believe against Ohtani. And it's like, geez, how do, how do we lose this in 23 and 26? What do we do to win it next time? And there's all this talk, well, is there a way you can move it to the All Star break when players are in full season and it's like, well, there's probably going to be issues there with arms. Are there injuries mid season? Maybe that doesn't work. Well, can you push it earlier than March? Maybe the right after the super bowl in February? Is that possible? And then it's like, well, people aren't warmed up. They're coming off the off season. So ultimately, like World Baseball Classic has been tremendous. Obviously, you know, we would love a better result than losing in the final the last two times it's happened. But you know, ultimately it's just an outstanding event. World Baseball Classic, we don't win it, but we were there at the end and it was great for baseball. Spring training continues and opening day is around the corner. All right, let's pivot to the NFL and the failed Max Crosby trade to the Baltimore Ravens. Now, I love this. I read a story. The one magazine I subscribe to is the New Yorker. Just a tremendous journalism, excellent stuff. And they had an article about conspiracy theories and how they kind of bubble up and usually in the absence of information and facts, you just get conspiracy theories. What happened? And with this Max Crosby trade, right, he goes from the Raiders to the Ravens for two first round picks. It happened on a Friday, okay? And all weekend the Ravens were getting crushed. Why are we doing this? We as a franchise have never traded a pick for a, for a player before. We're doing this now. We just fired our coach. Lamar Jackson wants a new contract. We didn't make the playoffs. What's going on? And there was a lot of outcry about what the Ravens did. Their fans were not thrilled. As you see other edge rushers come off the market. And it's like, wow, we overpaid. And so Max Crosby on Monday flies out to the Ravens. By Tuesday, there's an awkward meeting. The GM's not there to see him. The head coach, Jesse Minter. Hello, by the way. Welcome to the NFL. Jesse Minter, defensive coordinator all your life, first job as a head coach. Go tell Max Crosby. We saw some stuff on the mri. We're concerned, huh? Max Crosby starts panicking, and next thing you know, hey, they're backing out of the deal. And it's just this whirlwind, like, 96 hours, you know, if they still do those 30 for 30 things, I would love one. On the Max Crosby trade that happened and then was recanted. Because if you listen to Max on his podcast, man, he sounds. He's gone through all the emotions. Take a listen. Max Crosby on his podcast talking about the trade that did not happen.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

I'm so excited, like, fired up, you know what I mean? Like, this is new opportunity, whatever. And you could just tell the energy was off. Like, I dapped him up. He had, like, a blank face. And I'm like, okay, GM was standing, like, the hall, like, in the room next to me to the right. And that was the first time I seen him. The first thought in my head, like, I was terrified. So it just kind of hit me. I'm like, what, Is there something wrong? Like, I'm freaking out. Like, low key, deep down. I'm like, I can't get another surgery. I'm, like, frozen. I'm like, what the. I'm livid, confused. The whole nine, all in one. And so I. I told him, like, I'm trying to get out of here, bro. I wasn't supposed to be in Baltimore. And that's it. You know what I mean? I'm meant to be a raider. It's through my damn core.

[Jason McIntyre]

There's a lot there. Max Crosby, interesting individual, for sure. Obviously, you know, you wish him the best. And he went through a lot there, folks. That's a tough one. You asked to get traded publicly. You go on podcasts and talk about wanting to be out, and then the Raiders do their best to ship you. You get traded. And the new place is like, we don't know any more about the deal. We're going to send you back. And maybe he's right, you know, it sounds very California to say, hey, I wasn't. That wasn't meant to be. This is where I'm meant to be. I do kind of like that. Max, shout out for that One. But I will say there are some, some interesting things here. So, for starters, according to basically every story I've read, Max Crosby played last season with that meniscus injury, and he was tremendous. He was outstanding all season, essentially grading out as one of the 10 best edge rushers in the league by some metrics, top five, some top three. And that's with the meniscus. Okay, so he was still elite, but now all of a sudden, the Ravens are nervous. Oh, well, I don't know about the future with this injury. It just not, not everything's adding up. So then you start wondering, well, what if there's something else is up? Something else is afoot, perhaps with the Ravens. Are they concerned about Lamar Jackson? Are those negotiations not going well? Now, I know Ravens fans are like, so look, we, we restructured so we can make moves. But the restructure wasn't enough to keep their center, Tyler Linderbaum, who goes to the Raiders, by the way, interesting. You almost wonder if, I don't know, are things not going well with the Lamar Jackson new contract that he demanded? Remember about a month before John Harbaugh was fired, a big article came out in one of the Baltimore newspapers about how Lamar Jackson and John Harbaugh were not really vibing, things were not going well. And then you start to wonder, well, huh, Is Lamar the reason John Harbaugh is not there anymore? And you just got all this change breaking character and tendency to trade two picks for a player, and then watching Trey Hendrickson's value come down and say, well, if we just dump Max Crosby and send him back, we could get Trey Hendrickson cheaper and keep our picks. And there seems to be a lot going on in Baltimore. I will just say, overall, now that this, this ordeal is done, I get the sense that this is going to work out great for the Raiders. You guys know how those narratives work. It's like, oh, the sky is falling. Raiders tank. They get Mendoza. They're terrible. I don't know. They got a center, a veteran center for their young quarterback. They've got, they do have some good picks in this draft they went and spent in free agency. And ultimately, I think they spent their money pretty wisely. I mean, is it too hot of a take to say the Raiders are bigger contenders for a playoff spot next year than the Baltimore Ravens are? I don't know if the Ravens are going to be better, folks. I don't think Hendrickson makes them better. Losing your, your great center does not make you better. They haven't improved the wide receiver room. And then there's low rookie head coach in Minter. And oh by the way, did Lamar get that contract yet? So a lot happening in Baltimore. And Max Crosby, thank you for podcasting. I honestly think, you know, I know people love Kelsey's podcast. I think Max Crosby saying more and I think he's going to spur more athletes to come out and talk on podcasts about their experiences. I thought it was great, great input. So we have a great show coming up next. An NBA insider believes that NBA players should want to play with a superstar center. I say I don't know about that. I think there's a wing in Los Angeles I'd rather play with. That's next year on the Herd Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app hey, this is Jason McIntyre. Join me every weekday morning on my podcast Straight fire with Jason McIntyre. This isn't your typical sports pod, pushing the same tired narratives down your throat every day. Straight Fire gives you honest opinions on all the biggest sports headlines, accurate stats to help you win big at the Sportsbook and all the best guests. Do yourself a favor and listen to Straight fire with Jason McIntyre on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you

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[Jason McIntyre]

Welcome back. Got a great guest coming up in 20 minutes. Matt Leinert. Rare guest appearance on a TV show for Matt Leinert, the great USC quarterback. He's embroiled in a controversy. We'll get into that. That will be fun. But before we get to Leinart and then Rachel Nichols, obviously I need to talk about Luka Doncic versus Nikola Jokic. Okay? Obviously they're two of the better players in the league. You could argue one and two, but my guy, Brian Windhorst, a great reporter, maybe like one of the top newsbreakers in the league right now. He was on a podcast recently and he was talking about an interesting thing. I read this multiple ways. I want you to take a listen. So he's talking about if I'm a young great player in the League right now, I would be looking to play with Nikola Jokic over everyone. Interesting statement. Here's how Windhorse phrased it. In all honesty, if I was an NBA player right now, I would be doing everything I possibly could to play with Jokic.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

I realized that there are certain players

[Jason McIntyre]

who, you know, you have to have your own team.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

You don't want to do that, whatever.

[Jason McIntyre]

And Jokic has come out and said, I'm going to be in Denver, this is where I want to be.

[Matt Leinart]

He has said this very clearly.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

And so if I was a star player, especially if I was a star

[Jason McIntyre]

player that wasn't winning everything, I would be trying to get myself to Denver. But you know, that's now I know Windhorst a little bit through the years, had him on my podcast, see him at NBA arenas, just a good dude and he's always forward thinking. So my initial thought was, damn, is he signaling that he's talked to an agent and there is a player out there who may want to go play with Jokic. We all know Giannis is the biggest fish in free agency potentially this summer via trade. I can't imagine Giannis wanting to play with Joker. So maybe is there a guard? I don't know. I can't really think of anybody. And then I said, well, wait a minute, why would anyone want to play with Joker over Luka Doncic? How does that make sense? So I, I did some digging here. Jokic obviously turned 31 in February. I think that's a big number, 31. I don't want to say he's passed at the end of his prime or anything, but like the last six years he's been one or two in player efficiency in the league like Jokic hasn't enjoyed, has enjoyed an amazing run. How's he going to age in his 30s? I don't know. And I asked that because Luka doncic just turned 27. I mean, a four year difference is enormous in this discussion if who would I want to play with, Luka or Jokic? I mean, there's no wrong answer here. You know, the Serbian savant is such a great passer. All you have to do is cut. Look what he did to Aaron Gordon, who was a top five pick out of Arizona. And Aaron Gordon goes to the league, is fine in Orlando, he goes to Denver. And he's one of the most pivotal players in the playoffs because he could do so many things paired with Jokic. Okay, got that. Well, what about Luka? You remember when he took the Mavs to the Finals Two years ago, and all of a sudden Daniel Gafford was catching lobs and playing defense, and Derek Lively looked like a great, promising young center. What have those guys done since Luka left? Where's PJ Washington, who was an awesome role player, but then the counter is also true. Well, Jay, what about Jalen Brunson? He played alongside Luka, was a fine wingman, goes to the Knicks, is now an all NBA star, leading the Knicks to the conference finals last year and who knows, maybe the NBA finals. And so it was just a good thought experiment. Obviously, I land on the Luka side because you're going to get a lot of open threes courtesy of Luka. And you know me, I'm a chucker. I love to stay on the perimeter shoot. So I would play with Luka. Now, I don't fault anyone for wanting to say Jokic because he's an amazing passer, leading the league in assists. Luka, I think, is at eight and a half. Jokic is like ten and a half. But I believe Rachel had chimed in and she was like, I would. I would lean Jokic. And honestly, the meeting was kind of split this morning along the staff. I think it was kind of maybe 60, 40 jokic, probably.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah. I mean, look, for me, look, I always say that NBA players, the great, great NBA players are not only great at what they do, they're a multiplier. Right? It's kind of what you're saying, like they make other players better, they create space in a different way, something like that. Luka, because he's one of the best offensive talents in the league and generationally, offensively talented, will do those things. He'll make space, he'll make, you know, the lobs look easy, all the. All that sort of stuff. But the level that Jokic is a multiplier is higher, right? Because of the passes, because of what he does, because of all the different places on the court he takes attention. And so, yes, I agree with Brian that if you were a young star or any star who just is looking for that title, I think that I would rather go play with Jokic. And, you know, look, you talk about the ages and this is not a rip on Luka at all, right? Saying. Saying he's one of the greatest players, you know, offensively in the last 10 years is not a rip on him. But, you know, he's been playing professional basketball since he was 12 years old. Remember, he went and played for Barcelona.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's right.

[Rachel Nichols]

And there have been some criticisms this season. I don't see it. But definitely there have been some voices around the NBA saying, Man, maybe he's an old 27. Maybe, like there's been a lot of wear and tear on his body. You know, he doesn't always keep himself in great shape, you know, that sort of thing. I don't think that that's true. I think that we're just so quick, you know, it's bad. Two games and everyone's like, oh, my God, beer incident. You know, again, who wouldn't want to play with Luka Doncic? He's amazing. Of course you'd want to play with him. But if you're asking me to make the comparison, I don't see the age difference as quite as wide. And I do think it's just they're very different players and Jokic has some things that would complement another star. And plus, there's no one like Nikola Jokic. So by definition, whoever comes in is going to be a compliment we've seen in LA this year. I mean, LeBron and Luka play almost exactly the same way. And it doesn't always.

[Jason McIntyre]

It doesn't. Yeah, no, it's interesting. It's a great thought experiment. I would love you guys chime in online. Also, I'm a Luca guy. What do you want me to do? You know, like, I just, I love the guy. I mean, like the.

[Rachel Nichols]

How could you not love this guy? I mean, you're choosing between the bestest of options.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, Jokic, you know, it's interesting. As soon as the season ends, he peaces out. He's going to dealing with his horses. He's enjoying nightlife in Serbia, which is fine. I'm sure Luke is doing a similar thing.

[Rachel Nichols]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

You know, he has his house out here, especially lately. Yes, yes, yes. So anyways, a Fun 1. Luka vs. Jokic. Who would you rather teammate with? Anyways, let's go to Rachel with the news. No, no, no, turn on the news. This is the Herdline news.

[Rachel Nichols]

So, Jason, we know Miami Dolphins have been having a fire sale, right? You know, Tua gone. Jaylen Waddle just gone. Reports though are that the team is not interested in moving on from running back Devon Achan. Achan is in his third year, so he's extension eligible. But the Dolphins are saying the only Pro Bowler on the roster last season, he is staying put. So they're tearing everything else down, but they're. No, no, no. We're keeping the 24 year old. Do you buy it, Jason, that he is just off the table, untouchable or do you think that this is a little bit of like eh, the offers aren't very good. You know, offers for running. But running backs don't get as much in trade. Right. As receivers tend to. Tend to. And if someone came and blew them away with a godfather offer, H and would be gone. Or do you think they are really dedicated to having him work with Willis and building something?

[Jason McIntyre]

I don't trust anything the Dolphins say at this point. Right. And this whole Willis thing is perplexing because he didn't get a long deal. I think it's no two years guaranteed is pretty much it. So it's like well, they're not going to do anything next year and then in two years are they going to be like a wild card contender? I don't even think that's possible. So if you got the chance to move off Achan, I think you probably take the best deal you can get. Right?

[Rachel Nichols]

I don't know. I think there's something to the fact that they want to see if Malik Willis can get it done this season, not get to the conference championship. But is he their guy? Because everyone's tanking for tua. They get tua, it's a big deal. Didn't work out. Right. So if you can take Malik Willis for a test drive and he turns out to be your guy, you've got these great two first round draft picks in the next draft and you can fill out the rest of the team. If over the season you learn he's not your guy, you're drafting a quarterback at the beginning in the next draft no matter what. So there is something to me, to the idea that you've got to at least give him some weapons to work with. And Han is going to be a real bulk of their offense, especially as they figure out what's going on at quarterback.

[Jason McIntyre]

So. So let me just speculate. Saquon Barkley a couple years ago goes to the Eagles. Huge force multiplier. They win the Super Bowl. I don't know that Achan had that upside, but Seattle just lost Kenneth Walker.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

If Seattle gave up a first for Achan, is that the worst thing in the world? I mean basically they're replacing Kenneth walker with a 24 year old who like you said, made a Pro Bowl. He looks explosive as hell. I mean he's one of the faster backs in the league. Maybe a first is too rich. But you just won the Super Bowl. I don't see what, what's the harm if you're a contender with a quarterback on a rookie Deal. I'm looking at the numbers. HN is going to command 12 to 13 a year, probably, if you've got a cheap quarterback. I don't like the Houston Texans running back situation. All these teams with cheap quarterbacks should at least be kicking the tires, no?

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, they have been. Right? So the Dolphins have been taking calls. Everyone knows they've been open for business and there definitely have been pursuers for hhan. They're saying we're pulling them off the table. So it's more about the Dolphins than the other teams. Yeah, I kind of. I get it. I mean, again, I do think that if someone came and just blew them away with something crazy, of course that's going to change the game.

[Jason McIntyre]

So if you're Malik Willis and they trade hn, you say, is the ink dry on my contract or can I get, like, is there anywhere else to go? Arizona, I don't think has a quarterback yet. I mean, honestly, their wide receiver room is definitely 32 in the league right now after trading Waddle and they dumped Tyreek Hill.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, yeah. So I, you know, we'll see what happens there. But I get being a little gun shy of, oh, we gotta draft another quarterback. I. I get wanting a backup plan and having Willis giving him at least a shot.

[Jason McIntyre]

A shot.

[Rachel Nichols]

And seeing, seeing what happens. All right, let's go to the World Baseball Classic. You said at the top of the show, the atmosphere last night, Jason, was just incredible. I was riveted. You know, I've been into this whole tournament. It's just been so fun. Check out what happens though, after all of these, you know, play everyone's crazy. Venezuelans start rushing the field. Bryce Harper goes through and he's hugging everyone. He's congratulating everyone. And look, a couple of them are old teammates. But he's not. He's know all these guys in the same way. And he's out there, you know, sportsmanship on lock. And it caught a lot of people's eye that he was willing to go out and do this. You know baseball. You don't see the Yankees rushing on the field to congratulate the Dodgers.

[Jason McIntyre]

No, no, no.

[Rachel Nichols]

Any. Any of them. Right. So, you know, Yankees, Dodgers, World Series. You're not seeing, like, the Yankees rushing out on the field to congratulate the Dodgers after they win. Like, I think this is nice. And it sort of epitomizes that this tournament is different and not better or worse, you know, I know. There's the conversation earlier this week with Aaron Judge. This is a better atmosphere than The World Series, it's just different. Right. And the love and the passion and you saw that post game interview. Like the joy is just a little bit different, the emotion is a little bit different and treating it a little bit different. I think, I think that's true. I thought it was a very human thing to do.

[Jason McIntyre]

I'll give him props. I. I like Bryce Harper. So is he doing that if he didn't hit the home run and he was 0 for 4? Like, I mean, you know, someone else we were alluding to. You were alluding to. Yeah, I don't know.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

I don't know.

[Jason McIntyre]

But that is good sportsmanship for sure.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Rachel Nichols]

I just think this whole tournament lifted baseball up. Oh, for sure, right. You had this great World Series, Dodgers win. There's a lot of Dodgers fans around the world. Japan is Dodgers crazy now. Oh, yeah. And you know, then you go right into basically this after a short break. This lifts baseball up around the world. I think so many more Americans were paying attention. I thought Fox, frankly did just a great job making it a big deal and making it feel really big. And now you're having that sort of upswing maintained. And I just think that the side stories around this tournament, instead of just what happened on the field, you know, hits and runs, that's one of them. It's just sort of like, oh, great, this is nice.

[Jason McIntyre]

It's like a fraternity.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I like that a lot.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right.

[Rachel Nichols]

Reports out of Minnesota say that Kevin o' Connell has pitched Kyler Murray on the potential of being the long term starter for the team. Kyler's agent said that with the plan, Minnesota should be able to, you know, they want to prioritize winning, so they're going to sign a one year deal, hope for a long term landing spot. I don't know. What does it say about JJ McCarthy? Jason, we've been talking about this all week.

[Jason McIntyre]

I don't know this. She's not good. J.J. mcCarthy. Listen, this could be a long off season for him. Like he needs to lock in, as the kids say, and there's no room for error here. Pitching Kyler as the long term starter. I don't see it, man.

[Rachel Nichols]

Look, OConnell's been a quarterback whisperer, right? Look at all the guys who he's rehabbed, right? Careers, guys he's made good. So I think that if he thinks J.J. mcCarthy isn't it, I think that tells you a lot about J.J. mcCarthy.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, it's probably over, right?

[Rachel Nichols]

Just that. Just that, you know, look, sometimes it's the organization fails the quarterback. Maybe the quarterback failed the organization here, or maybe just, you know, they misjudged and it didn't work out. But I think the fact that it's o' Connell who appears to be ready to move on if it can work out, I think that carries more weight with me than if it was just someone else.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, so, Rachel, how much of this is trying to protect his job? Because we know the GM pretty much decided that's our guy. We don't want Darnold. We don't want to pay him that much.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, well, there's a power struggle in that building, too.

[Jason McIntyre]

The last season, it sounds like maybe o' Connell got the memo. Hey, man, you got to deliver this season or you're gone. Now, I don't agree with that. I think you got to let things bake.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

Tough times in Minnesota. Anthony Edwards now on the shelf for at least two weeks.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yep.

[Jason McIntyre]

Right ahead of the playoffs.

[Rachel Nichols]

Right.

[Jason McIntyre]

You got a quarterback controversy. You, Sam Darnold, you watch him win the Super Bowl. I know my buddy over at Fox Sports Radio, Scott Shapiro, is definitely crestfallen over this. Like, this is not good. I mean, Kyler Murray, have you seen him the last two years?

[Rachel Nichols]

Look again. O' Connell has rehabbed several guys reputations. Darnold himself went on to win a Super Bowl. I mean, Stafford, there's been a bunch of guys that he has really worked with and made better. Clearly, they wouldn't have brought Murray in if he didn't think, I know how to use this guy differently than Arizona did. Yes, he has physical limitations, but I can build an offense around that as opposed to trying to stick him in the middle of a different, you know, the offense I want to run. So we're going to see. I mean, this is a great test for o'. Connell. Are you really the quarterback whisperer? Because, oh, it didn't work with jj. You've done so much with Kyler Murray. Guess it was jj. Or if Kyler Murray turns out to be the guy he was in Arizona. Still, then it's like maybe you lost your touch.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's a good point. Let me ask Rach. You know this. So Kyler Murray was dumped by the Cardinals. How many teams were interested in him? Was anyone else? Like, that's our guy. That's our savior. I mean, Miami could have got him for nothing. Atlanta could have got him. I know they went after Tua, but there were several teams. The jets need a quarterback. Nobody else was interested in Kyler Murray. I don't know what that says is that Kevin o' Connell seeing something, or is that like, hey, we can get this guy for the minimum, let's do it.

[Rachel Nichols]

I mean, I think that other teams would have brought in Kyler Murray as

[Jason McIntyre]

backup, and he wanted a chance to start.

[Rachel Nichols]

He wanted a chance to start.

[Jason McIntyre]

What about.

[Rachel Nichols]

We don't know, by the way. We don't know for sure. It's the. We're getting indications. Indications, right. So I'm sure in training camp we'll see how the guys do. But it's certainly there's an indication that Kyler has a running lead here

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

the

[Rachel Nichols]

way he would with the.

[Jason McIntyre]

Has he looked over the playbook yet? Just curious. Unlikely. Anyways. All right, Rachel with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the Herd lie news. All right, Very juicy story in college football regarding Jersey's retirement. You're gonna love this. Matt Leinert stops by next, the superstar from usc, to talk all about it. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. Grocery prices are skyrocketing, but True Nature Me Meats Beef Garnasada delivers zesty flair

[Rachel Nichols]

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Rachel Nichols]

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[Rachel Nichols]

Network are you missing football? I mean, come on, it's 175 more days till the NFL starts, so we have the answer for you. The United Football League returns with a new season. Real pro football. Don't miss UFL Kickoff Weekend, March 27th through the 29th on Fox and ESPN.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, our next guest is a college football superstar. A legend. Folks. You don't realize how big of a deal this is. My wife was out to dinner with some ladies and they go, oh my gosh, look who's at the next table. It's Matt Leinert. And my wife's like, oh, I know him. We're friends. My husband plays basketball with him and they oh my goodness. So let's bring on Matt Leinert, the USC football legend. 372 Record with the Trojans. Also a great recruiter for our men's basketball team. We won the championship last night. Liner dinged up. Got to get that calf healthy for next season, buddy.

[Matt Leinart]

Well, first of all, thanks for the intro. I want to say this, dude, we are champions. We woke up today both basketball champions, the Great Foxes. Two out of three seasons we won. And we will hang the banner once Again, in the Bay Club here in the South Bay. I do apologize for not making it last night. I did pop a calf a month ago. I was down and out. But the team that you built, J. Mac, the team you built, the general manager of the year, you built this team so that we had depth. We picked up some key players. Everybody knew their role, and we won another championship. And I'm so fricking pumped, dude. Like, it's. It's one of my greatest accomplishments at this point in my life now is getting a chance to lace him up with you. And you're. Your producer was just asking me, is J. Mac actually good in basketball? And I said. I said, he will surprise you. He's a pesky little defender, and he will shoot. He will shoot the hell out of the ball.

[Jason McIntyre]

So congrats.

[Matt Leinart]

Congratulations to you, buddy. Congratulations to you, man.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, let's get to the real story. And that's obviously you making waves on your podcast. So you got a podcast with Jerry Ferrara, you know, of Entourage fame. It's called Throwbacks, and you talked about Jersey retirements. I'll let you explain, and then I'll fire away the questions. Go ahead.

[Matt Leinart]

Yeah. So. Well, I think this. This. Scott, kind of take it out of context, and let me just give you the context. So I'm on the pod with Jerry, and we're talking about Mike Evans going to the 49ers. Mike Evans wears number 13. Brock Purdy wears number 13. And Jerry was like, as a. As a sports fan, he's like, dude, do you think Mike would ask Brock? Do you think he'll sell the number? All this kind of stuff. And we actually facetime Larry Fitzgerald, because Larry wore 11 when I was coming into the league, and I wanted to be 11. And I ended up being seven for Arizona. That's how this whole thing sparked. And then I was like, oh, when I think about it, man, USC has approached me in the past if I would ever unretire my jersey for a big recruit. I'm not going to name names or the years. And I. And I said exactly what I said. I said, dude, absolutely not. I, like, I'm not going to ever let anyone wear my jersey other than my boys. It was Cole at the time. Now it's Case and Cannon. If they ever go play football. USC gray, I think what. And I clarified this. I sent out to you. What I think people were thinking is, like, Lincoln, in the last four or five years, they've come to me, and I've said no. So that. That hasn't happened. This, this is, this is it must have been a slow news cycle yesterday, dude, if this was getting picked up. So just to clarify, Lincoln and the staff haven't asked me in the last four or five years. I did say though, like, I wouldn't give it up to some kid who's making two or three million dollars who's probably going to transfer in a year or two anyway. But it's been, it's been pretty funny. I feel like everybody's on the side of holding strong and keeping your number sacred, but yeah, man, that's kind of what happened. So it's really not a big deal. You know, I got a lot of love for usc. These were funny conversations. They did happen in the past and I kind of laughed. I said, dud, no chance I'm going to un. Retire my number.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

So.

[Jason McIntyre]

And you're spot on with the current nil era. Some guy can want your number and then he bounces in a year, you know, or he's bench and then he, and then he quits. So. But let me ask, what if a guy comes in, two year starter, awesome. He's ready for the final year and he says, I want to honor Leonard. Wear that for my final year. We're going to win the Natty. I'm going to win the Heisman. I don't know that he'd want to change his number and it's all circumstantial. But is that a scenario where you'd consider it?

[Matt Leinart]

Listen, if his name is Jason or Canon Liner. Absolutely. Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Matt Leinart]

Look, I mean, I'm, I'm holding strong. That's my belief. People can disagree or agree with me. That number is, is one. It was my number growing up in baseball and everything. I played all my kids. Like, I, I don't know. I think Cole's going to try and be 11 this year at SMU. I'm not sure. Obviously at some point you kind of have to earn and you can get to pick as you get older, but it, it's an important number and it represents what we were able to accomplish at usc, you know, so it's, it's, it's, it's pretty cool to have your number retired at a place like usc. I'm proud of it. I'm proud of those teams that I was a part of and, and winning those titles. But I mean, listen, I'm gonna, I'll die on the Hill if, if it's a liner last name and they want to rock 11, go for it.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, no, I think A lot of people are with you. It makes sense. Hey, let me quickly while we got you ask you ask you about the, the upcoming draft. Obviously you were a great quarterback in college, translated went to the pros. You saw a lot of Mendoza on Big noon kickoff. I'm just curious your thoughts on him heading into the league.

[Matt Leinart]

Yeah, I love Fernando. I think it's interesting right this is the time of the year where you start breaking down these guys and really you're looking at Fernando and you're looking at Ty Simpson, probably the only two first round quarterbacks, at least where we sit today. I think the thing with Fernando, one, when you look at the physical skill set, he's a lot bigger than you probably think. Like he's every bit of 6, 4, 6, 5, 2, 20. He can run, he's got a really good arm, he can make all the throws. I think there's one, one trait in the NFL like you. You have to be accurate. You have to be insanely accurate. I don't care if you have a, an absolute cannon or you have an average arm. You have to be able to fit the ball wherever you need it. He can do that also from a mental standpoint, I just think he understands and can see the game mentally, which is another big part. I think if you can understand defenses and you can digest and you can learn an offensive system and then learn how to what a defense is going to do to you and all of these things and play at that level, I think that's what stands out to him. You know, he's probably going to go to the Raiders. Obviously they don't have a great roster. I think they definitely improved over free agency. I love Clint Kubiak. A quick story here. You know, I played for Gary Kubiak in Houston and I've always said this like that offense is, is, is the Shanahan offense. It's that kind of tree, the McVeigh, all of those where you can kind of plug and play quarterback. So I'm actually really excited to see Fernando, if he does right go to, go to play in that system where they just revive Sam Darnold right up in Seattle, go in that system and try and get the best out of Fernando. It's just such a quarterback friendly offense. And Clint, Clint was, gosh, 20 years old running around at the Texans facility when I was there, you know, so, so I'm excited for that, for that marriage. I think Fernanda is going to be a really good pro.

[Jason McIntyre]

Simpson, everybody's divided on Mel Kuiper. Had him first round. Daniel Jeremiah did not. I don't know. Have you seen enough of him? The Alabama quarterback who really struggled the last time we saw him against Indiana.

[Matt Leinart]

Yeah, I mean, I think there's a couple games down the stretch there where he struggle. I would just say this. The receivers underperformed this year for them. They had virtually no running game. I mean they couldn't run the football. And you're playing in the sec. There's a lot of pressure. We said it on Big Noon every week, like whenever we talked about them. It's like this dude's got so much pressure on him to, to, to single handedly will this team to wins. And that's what he was able to do in the SEC when you're playing against great defenses and really good football teams. So, you know, he's not the biggest guy. I remember meeting him out of Elite 11 when he was there in our, in our neck of the woods back in the day. I love his demeanor, I love his leadership. He's a ball player, he loves football. He's not the biggest guy, but I'll tell you what, like he can make some throws that are like NFL throws and windows that are NFL throws. So he' an interesting one because he's not going to jump out with all the intangibles and the physical and all that kind of stuff. But you turn on the tape, there's a lot of good stuff there.

[Jason McIntyre]

The great Matt Leiner. Check out his throwbacks podcast. Thanks a lot, Matt. Enjoy, enjoy the summer.

[Matt Leinart]

Hey, congrats on being a champion, J. Mac. You're the man, bro.

[Jason McIntyre]

Matt Leiner, just a great human being. Rachel, I saw you nodding a lot. You're in agreement with this jersey number. This became like a huge. You texted me after the show.

[Rachel Nichols]

I did.

[Jason McIntyre]

Did you see this? And I was like, that's a great topic.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, I was angry. I was actually angry. First of all, I know Matt, Matt is amazing and just, you know, he deserves every bit of respect. He has earned it. But also retiring someone's jersey, the only thing that is is saying that no one can have their number anymore. It's not like a side effect of some other honor. Like this is it. This is the honor you are saying you did so well here. You were such a part of what this school is. Nobody should ever wear this again. That's the thing. If you don't feel that way, don't retire the number.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Rachel Nichols]

Because this isn't just like a prize that comes along in a Cracker Jacks box. Like oh, no, you got the Cracker Jack already. So, like, give us that prize back.

[Jason McIntyre]

This is it.

[Rachel Nichols]

This is the honor.

[Jason McIntyre]

I know some people are like, well, what happens when they run out of numbers for quarterbacks? What do you do? That's in like 80 years. Okay, let's settle down. Retirement is. It's hallowed. You're a legend. I mean, how many.

[Rachel Nichols]

I don't know.

[Jason McIntyre]

How many quarterbacks have had their number retired at usc? It can't be many, but they're a

[Rachel Nichols]

pretty impressive list, right?

[Jason McIntyre]

Exactly. Carson, Palmer, Matt, like legends. You got to really prove it. He did. And yeah, I'm not giving up my number for. I mean, if my. Like he said, if his kid.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

Or kids. You know, he's got young, young kids and son's going to smu. But I don't have my jersey retired in anything. Do you have a jersey retired in anything?

[Rachel Nichols]

No. Come on. Maybe that's why we do this job.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yes. Because we can't really.

[Rachel Nichols]

But it sounds like maybe at the Bay Club, you're going to have your jersey retired. Matt talking you up there. I like that.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, coming up next, speaking of retirements. So NCAA tournament officially kicks off tomorrow. Yes, Texas hit a game winner and congrats to Howard. A really impressive win last night, but tomorrow the tournament begins. So I'm trying to rank my top five players in the 20. It is extremely difficult. We had to leave off some really awesome players. I mean, Braden Smith, who's going to pass Bobby Hurley for the most assist ever. He didn't make the list, guys. He's an amazing point guard. Great career. So top five players in the NCAA tournament. That is next here on the Herd.

[Rachel Nichols]

Think Verizon is expensive?

[Jason McIntyre]

Think again. Anyone can bring their AT&T or T

[Rachel Nichols]

mobile bill to a Verizon store today

[Jason McIntyre]

and we'll give you a better deal.

[Rachel Nichols]

So bring us your bill.

[Jason McIntyre]

Walk in running pogo stickin teleport. If you can ride on the back

[Rachel Nichols]

of a rollerblading yak or flyin on

[Jason McIntyre]

the wings of a majestic falcon. Any way you can bring your AT&T

[Rachel Nichols]

or T mobile bill to a Verizon store today and we'll give you a

[Jason McIntyre]

better deal on the best network based on RouteMetric's best overall mobile network performance.

[Rachel Nichols]

US second half 2025.

[Jason McIntyre]

All rights reserved. Must provide a very recent postpaid consumer

[Rachel Nichols]

mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply whether

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Jason McIntyre]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.