THE HERD - Hour 2 - How overrated is James Harden?

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Hour 2

Date: May 8, 2026
Topic: How overrated is James Harden?
Podcast: The Herd with Colin Cowherd (iHeartPodcasts & The Volume)

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Episode Overview

This episode focuses primarily on James Harden’s persistent playoff struggles, his legacy versus other NBA greats (especially Dwyane Wade), and wider conversations about the nature of “all-time great” status in sports. The hosts debate whether Harden's regular season MVP-caliber performances justify his inclusion among basketball royalty, and whether his postseason failures should overshadow his overall career. The conversation also expands to legacy debates in other sports—such as Derek Jeter’s “right place, right time” status—and closes with a classic LeBron vs. Michael Jordan comparison.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. James Harden's Playoff Struggles and Legacy

• Cavs vs. Pistons Series Recap
  [03:23] AI Colin: Highlights Detroit going up 2–0 on Cleveland, despite big nights from Cleveland’s Donovan Mitchell and Jarrett Allen—underscoring Harden’s ineffectiveness:
  "There's a name there for the Cavs. He left out. He was 3 of 13 from the field. He's terrible in the postseason. He's James Harden."
  — Stu Gotts [03:47]

• Harden vs. Dwyane Wade Debate
  [03:55] The hosts mock the recently revived debate on whether Harden is better than Wade, dismissing it as laughable.
  "Can you think of the career highlight defensive play of James Harden? … I cannot. No."
  — Stu Gotts & Stu Gats

  "Dwayne [Wade] impacted the games in ways that James Harden couldn't. If my team is missing 17 consecutive three pointers… I, meaning Dwyane Wade, would have done something to slow that down, something to keep my team afloat."
  — Stu Gats [05:16]

• Harden’s Lack of Defensive Moments [04:31] Stu Gats: Notes Harden's only memorable defensive play was a rare, almost accidental steal, contrasting this with Dwyane Wade’s well-known clutch defense.

• Harden's Playoff Reputation [06:29] Harden’s playoff reputation is compared to Clayton Kershaw: Great in regular season, disappointing in playoffs.
  [06:54] "It's laughable that we see this guy in the postseason and think because he goes between the legs ten times every time he dribbles, that he is some sort of effective basketball player. It's absolutely maddening to watch him play at this level."
  — Stu Gats

• Harden’s Off-Court Habits
  [07:37] Reference to stories of Harden partying hard during MVP years, with the hosts bemused:
  "Imagine if he didn't do that … that’s not something to be proud of in your career. 'I could have been better, but I was out clubbing till five in the morning.'"
  — Stu Gats

• Stats On Harden’s Playoff Futility
  [08:40] Taylor shares a damning Reddit stat:
  "James Harden played his 182nd career playoff game tonight with four turnovers and three made field goals. It was his 46th playoff game that he's had as many or more turnovers than made field goals. That's over 25% of his career playoff games."

• All-Time Great & Hall of Fame Debate
  [09:10] The panel discusses Stephen A. Smith’s assertion that Harden is “playing his way out” of Hall of Fame/all-time great conversations. [09:24] Taylor: "Stephen A. Smith worded it, Stu, he said James Harden's Hall of Fame status is on the verge of being revoked." [09:31] Stu Gats: "That's ridiculous."

• Scoring vs. Impact [09:44] Stu Gats reflects on what makes a scorer effective, and how Harden’s reliance on tricking referees and drawing fouls doesn't translate to playoff success.
  "We're obsessed with scoring in a way that maybe we weren't before... Harden's go-tos are the step-back three ... not a great shot, and drawing fouls. If you're not drawing those fouls anymore, where are you going?"

• Harden’s Lack of Devoted Fanbase
  [11:27] Taylor: "Does James Harden have this big fan base? ... He doesn't really have that team that he's really associated with anymore."

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2. Wider Legacy Debates

• Right Place, Right Time Athletes
  [17:44] The conversation shifts to whether certain stars—like Derek Jeter or Scottie Pippen—would have been Hall of Famers if drafted by lesser teams.
  • "If Derek Jeter played out his entire career with the Pittsburgh Pirates, we do not think of Derek Jeter the way we do today. Is that fair?"
    — Stu Gotts [18:58]
  • Lively debate about how much surrounding teammates and organizational success affect great players' legacies.
  • Pippen/Jeter consensus: Both benefited from circumstances, but both also had Hall-worthy skills.

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3. Culture, Fandom & Celebrity Intersections

• Courtside Tickets vs. Playing Augusta National [28:55] The hosts debate two famous missed opportunities: Tom Rinaldi’s brother missing a round at Augusta vs. Mike Greenberg’s son missing Knicks–Sixers courtside seats.

  • Taylor argues Augusta is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity you literally can't buy, while the Knicks game is just money.
  • Others note the memory-making allure of being courtside at MSG among celebrities.

• Fantasy Sports Connections with Celebrity Knicks Fans [32:11] Taylor humorously hypothesizes he could befriend Timothée Chalamet if seated together as Knicks superfans:
  "If I met Timothée Chalamet, I think me and him would be friends. We would connect over our love for the Knicks so much..."
  — Taylor

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4. Lakers–Thunder Series & Officiating Complaints

• [42:10] The crew revisits the Lakers–OKC playoff series and why so many teams complain about officiating against the Thunder.
  • Stu Gats: Questions why anyone (NBA or officials) would conspire against LeBron’s Lakers in favor of OKC.
  • "Either OKC is doing an amazing job of effectively baiting these referees in the same way that I just complained James Harden used to do. Or everybody's crazy."
    — Stu Gats [44:23]
  • AI Colin:
    "That game too was the Thunder telling you we're the grownups here. They win 125 to 107 and … the scary part is they took control in that third quarter, even with Shea in foul trouble."
    [45:29]

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5. Classic Sports Radio Debates (GOAT Talks)

• [47:29] Stu Gats sets up the all-time favorite sports radio debate: Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James.
  • AI Colin’s take:
    "Michael Jordan is the greatest peak the sport's ever seen… LeBron James is the greatest career we've ever seen. … If you want the scariest guy for one series, one season, one last shot, it's Jordan. If you want the best 20-year investment, it's LeBron. That's the split: peak versus lifespan, dominance versus durability."
    — AI Colin [47:29]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "It's laughable that we see this guy in the postseason and think because he goes between the legs ten times every time he dribbles, that he is some sort of effective basketball player. It's absolutely maddening to watch him play at this level."
  — Stu Gats [06:54]

• "James Harden played his 182nd career playoff game tonight with four turnovers and three made field goals. ... 46th playoff game he's had as many or more turnovers than made field goals. That's over 25% of his career playoff games."
  — Taylor [08:40]

• "We're obsessed with scoring in a way that maybe we weren't before."
  — Stu Gats [09:44]

• "If Derek Jeter played out his entire career with the Pittsburgh Pirates, we do not think of Derek Jeter the way we do today."
  — Stu Gotts [18:58]

• "Michael Jordan is the greatest peak the sport's ever seen... If you want the scariest guy for one series, it's Jordan. If you want the best 20-year investment, it's LeBron."
  — AI Colin [47:29]

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Important Timestamps for Key Segments

• James Harden's Playoff Failures: [03:23] – [10:58]
• Harden vs. Dwyane Wade Debate: [03:55] – [08:35]
• Hall of Fame and All-Time Great Status: [09:10] – [11:12]
• Right Place, Right Time Athletes (Jeter, Pippen): [17:44] – [22:16]
• Courtside vs. Augusta Debate: [28:55] – [31:44]
• Celebrity Knicks Fan Fantasies: [32:11] – [36:49]
• Lakers–Thunder Officiating Discussion: [42:10] – [46:48]
• Jordan vs. LeBron GOAT Debate: [47:29] – [48:11]

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Tone & Style

The episode is lively, jokey, occasionally exasperated, and anchored in sports nostalgia and barroom argument—matching The Herd’s conversational and irreverent tone. The hosts enjoy mocking outlandish takes and each other, mixing stats and analysis with pop culture and personal anecdotes.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode is a firework display of sports radio takes, firmly skewering the myth of James Harden as an all-time playoff performer. Harden’s repeated playoff flameouts leave the panel unimpressed and disbelieving that he's even worthy of modern “greatest 2-guard” debates, especially compared to legends like Dwyane Wade. The hosts use Harden's story as a springboard for timeless debates about career legacy, the impact of team context, and who really deserves to sit atop the pantheon of sports greats. The hour closes, fittingly, with another round of Jordan vs. LeBron—a debate that, as Stu Gats says, "will last as long as sports radio exists."

Transcript

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[Stu Gotts]

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[Stu Gats]

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week. My guests, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band with their between songs Banter. Where does your group perform?

[Stu Gotts]

We do some retirement homes.

[Taylor]

Those people are starving for banter.

[Stu Gats]

Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel

[Taylor]

and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

[Stu Gats]

Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Isaiah Thomas]

What's up fam? It's Isaiah Thomas and I'm CJ Toledano.

[Taylor]

It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the Playoffs.

[Isaiah Thomas]

We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season and I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was firm.

[Stu Gats]

You just understood.

[Isaiah Thomas]

That's how personal it got.

[Stu Gotts]

Wow.

[Isaiah Thomas]

Then after that Game seven Marquis coming to you, he's like, you know I love you dog. You know it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball.

[Taylor]

So listen to Point game on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[AI Colin]

Thanks for listening to the Heard Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio at noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

[Stu Gats]

Now let's get this party started.

[Stu Gotts]

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. 877 for the herd. Our thanks to Sean McDonough for joining us in hour number one. Jeff Passon's gonna join us in the third hour of today's show. We will get to the Cavs and Pistons here in just a second, but I realize the audience is missing Collins, so let's get AI Collins thoughts here. Quickly, guys. On the Pistons Cav series,

[AI Colin]

Detroit going up 2 zip on Cleveland tells you everything. This isn't a cute story. It's a power move. Cade Cunningham closes again with 25 and 10. Tobias Harris gives you 21. And the Pistons are dictating the terms of the series like the one seed should. Cleveland's getting big nights. Donovan Mitchell had 31, Jared Allen had 22, and it still feels like they're playing catch up the whole game.

[Stu Gats]

Hmm.

[Stu Gotts]

There's a name there for the Cavs. He left out. He was 3 of 13 from the field. He's terrible in the postseason. He's James Harden.

[Stu Gats]

Stu. He is so laughable. It is funny to me that now it was sort of reawakened the James Harden versus Dwyane Wade, who was the better two guard. It is such a laughable debate. Such a laughable debate when you really think about it. Because James Harden is. Well, first of all, can you think of the career highlight defensive play of James Harden?

[Stu Gotts]

I cannot. No. No.

[Stu Gats]

I can think of one. It was a no look swipe that he had on somebody. I want to say it was Patrick Bevna. Maybe not. He just looked the other way and swiped down and eventually got a steal out of that. That's it.

[Stu Gotts]

Okay.

[Stu Gats]

There are so many highlight blocks and steals from Dwayne Wade, in fairness.

[Stu Gotts]

All right. But I don't remember any of them. So, like, in fairness to James Harden, you didn't want. There aren't many defensive plays that I remember from individuals in the NBA over the course of time. I just don't. I remember the steal From Jordan, Game 6 of the NBA Finals against the Utah Jazz because he's the greatest of all time.

[Stu Gats]

Of all Time Larry steals the ball, lays it up to dj like, it gives it off to dj. Excuse me.

[Taylor]

Also, what strange circles is Izzy rolling in where he's saying the. The conversations between Dwayne Wade and James Harden have been awakened stuff? Those conversations aren't happening in any of my circles.

[Stu Gotts]

I've never had it. I've never had it with anyone, at any time, at any point, with any person.

[Stu Gats]

Yes, Pat Beverly just reawakened those things by saying that he was better than Dwyane Wade. Then Dwyane Wade himself, the man himself went on a pod and said, he shouldn't be talking about me. He can't do anything I can do. And then he's basically been defending himself against the James Harden conversation without insulting James Harden by saying, look, after five years, I already had a Hall of Fame career. And. And I don't think you can say the same thing about him. And so that. That, to me, is a laughable debate. Dwayne impacted the games in ways that, you know, James Harden couldn't. And it's just more of a, hey, if my team is missing 17 consecutive three pointers like his Houston Rockets did against the Golden State warriors one game in the playoffs, I, meaning Dwayne Wade, would have done something, whether it be a pump fake and get to the line, something to slow that down, something to keep my team afloat. I think it's not even a conversation. Best two guard is. Although coming from me, that's going to be looked at as bias. But in this series, in these playoffs, Stu, James Harden is officially, officially in, like, Clayton Kershaw territory, because when the playoffs come, he's an entirely different person. I think it's. It's either four out of five or five straight games in these postseason, or he had more turnovers than field goals made. And when you watch him play, he looks like he can't do anything out there. And then he takes out his frustration by getting mad at a Sar Thompson, who is the most, like, innocent defender in the league. He's just a ridiculously good defender, but is not a smack talker, is not really somebody that really gets into arguments. James Harden is just laughable. It's laughable that we see this guy in the postseason and think because he goes between the legs ten times every time he dribbles, that he is some sort of effective basketball player. It's absolutely maddening to watch him play at this level. And you've got other people. I forget who it was, but somebody on a podcast recently just bragging, bragging, about how James Harden would be out till 4 or 5 in the morning with Houston during his MVP days and then just come back to work the next day and drop 60. I'm like, imagine if he didn't do that. Like that. You don't. That's not something to, to, to, you know, to be proud of in your career. Oh, I could have been better, but I was out clubbing till five in the morning. Like, I know people want to put that Michael Jordan thing. Oh, he played golf till whatever hours of the day and still dropped 40. On a team that I think is even a little bit more acceptable because you're at least doing sort of physical activity that is not drinking alcohol the whole time. It's just, I don't know, it's. It. It really gets to me how embarrassing that is for somebody who is supposed to be an all time great.

[Stu Gotts]

Yeah, you're really taking this one personally. It seems like, I mean, you just like the, the disdain for Jason brought Dwayne Wade into the conversation. Well, no, it's amazing. Like, like, listen, this is how I do it. 3 of 13. He's terrible in the postseason. Everything looks good until he starts shooting and then it starts to look bad when it clanks off the rim because he's not good in the postseason. But Izzy somehow made it about Dwight Wade, and God bless him, he loves Dwayne Wade. But I'm not certain anyone's having those conversations. And if Dwayne Wade is responding to any sort of conversation where someone is saying James Harden is better than he is, he shouldn't respond. His game did all.

[Stu Gats]

They're talking Dwyane Wade having the conversation, then people are having the conversation.

[Stu Gotts]

Stop having that conversation. It's a dumb conversation for Wade to have. Of course he's better than James Harden. Stop talking about it. Not you, Dwyane Wade. No.

[Stu Gats]

And a lot of people would say James Harden is better. That's why it's a conversation.

[Stu Gotts]

No one, no one, no one would say that. Who would say that?

[Taylor]

And if they did say it, they will not say it. After I read this stat here that I saw on NBA Reddit, I had a fact check this maybe 40 times because it's that unbelievable. James Harden played his 182nd career playoff game tonight with four turnovers and three made field goals. It was his 46th playoff game that he's had as many or more turnovers than made field goals. That's over 25% of his career playoff games.

[Stu Gats]

Like, I saw somebody say that he is now Getting into might have been. Stephen A. The Russell Wilson conversation. Are you playing your way out of maybe not the hall of Fame, but all time great conversations like it is just becoming painfully obvious.

[Taylor]

So the way Stephen A. Smith worded it, Stu, he said James Harden's hall of Fame status is on the verge of being revoked.

[Stu Gats]

Oh, that's ridiculous.

[Stu Gotts]

Really? So he was in and now he's revoking his status. Wow, that's pretty amazing.

[Taylor]

Stephen A. Smith had his card and it's, it's on the verge of being taken away from.

[Stu Gotts]

Here's, here's.

[Stu Gats]

What the problem is, is.

[Stu Gotts]

Yes, go ahead. Sorry, Izzy, go.

[Stu Gats]

No, no, the problem is, is that we're obsessed with scoring in a way that maybe we weren't before. Right. Because there were times where we would see a guy have big scoring numbers and then just recognize, okay, it's a little gimmicky. It's, it's regular season quality. Right. And effectiveness. But when you really like break it down or if you really defend it hard over the course of a seven game series, it's not going to be as effective. Because if you think about what Harden's go tos are, it's step back three, which again, even if he is the best in the league at it percentage wise, not a great shot. And then drawing fouls when, when getting to the rim. Well, if you're not drawing those fouls anymore, I mean where are you going? What is your go to? How are you affecting the game? It's certainly not on defense and it's certainly not with what like mid range pull ups. He just doesn't have that. He's a two level scorer effectively either threes or layups. And so it's just not effective come playoff time. And it's really frustrating to see whether it be all time great conversations or people convincing themselves that he is going to be different with the Cleveland Cavaliers when. Why are we convincing himself ourselves of this? We've seen enough evidence to the contrary.

[Taylor]

Stephen A. Smith is the guy to revoke your NBA hall of Fame card, right?

[Stu Gats]

Like he's the guy that gets to

[Taylor]

take it away from you.

[Stu Gotts]

Hammer. Doris Burke. Yeah, Bob Doris maybe. Yeah.

[Stu Gats]

Jackie McMullen maybe. I think there's people ahead of Boston.

[Taylor]

That's very Boston.

[Stu Gats]

Well, I mean I grew up reading them, so the first name that came to mind.

[Stu Gotts]

But Izzy, I don't mean to say this like I'm not trying to upset you. Just who is having these conversations about James Harden being an all time great?

[Stu Gats]

That's where I mean, I could, I could list them for you, but just, just look at it.

[Taylor]

Does James Harden have this big fan base? Like, I don't associate James Harden with, with having like this devoted following that's going to defend James Harden to the end of the earth. Because he seems like a tough player to kind of defend to the end of the earth. Like, listen, Jalen Brunson is my guy. I will defend Jalen Brunson till the end of time. But that's a Knicks fan saying they'll defend Harden or Knicks fans saying they'll defend Brunson. Brunson. Harden doesn't really have that team that he's really associated with anymore.

[Stu Gats]

There are people who suggest James Harden change the game forever. Like, they'll just show you the images of people defending him from the side, from the side so that he wouldn't be able to do his, you know, little step back move and everything else. And really all that is, is just James Harden perfecting the act of a, like the referees, right? He's using the, the, the way the game is officiated to his benefit. And so therefore the other players were literally throwing their hands up in saying, I don't know what you want me to do. I'm going to try this crazy stuff over here. When really he wasn't this dynamic athlete or basketball player who was doing all of these amazing things. He basically took advantage of a couple of rules where you can't touch a shooter and you know he's going to reach down and make you reach his arm and slap at his arm when he goes to the, to the bucket and he's going to get his free throws. That's it. That's his power. That's his superpower. And when that's not going to be there all the time, he's going to look like a less than average player. That's not who you want leading your team.

[Stu Gotts]

Those people are dumb. Who's ever saying that? Who's ever having these conversations? They're just, I'm not saying they're not having those conversations. It's just, I never thought of James Harden as an all time great. I'll never think of James Harden as an all time great. I think he would have been. Had a better chance of being an all time great. And Kevin Durant, by the way, if the three of them just stayed together, Westbrook, Durant and Harden, if they somehow just stayed together, perhaps James Harden would be in the conversation of all time great. I just wasn't aware. And again, I don't say this to upset you that there's some weird James Harden cult who defends him at all costs. You know, it's crazy.

[Taylor]

One of the names mentioned for the hall of Fame card status holder was Bob Ryan. And I have my. I have my Twitter notifications on for any time Bob Ryan tweets. And once I heard the name Bob Ryan, I was like, this is my lane to talk a little Bob Ryan. Somebody tweeted a picture that said name a famous queen not named Victoria or Elizabeth. Hmm. And Bob Ryan responded to the tweet and said, latifah,

[Stu Gotts]

Get him on

[Stu Gats]

Bob. Classic Bob.

[Stu Gotts]

It is classic Bob.

[Taylor]

You're right.

[Stu Gotts]

We used to do a segment called we used to have Bob on to explain his tweets because sometimes they're a bit all over the place. And Bob would. Come on. I'd read them to him. I'd read them to the audience and then he would explain what he was trying to say. Go ahead, Taylor.

[Taylor]

But we don't need any explanation there. Like,

[Stu Gats]

Bob Ryan has always had his thumb on the pulse of pop culture in the 90s

[Stu Gotts]

and that he should be on the Mount Rushmore of tweets. Seriously, that is a great job. It's so unsuspecting from Bob Ryan. Speaking of Mount Rushmore's, listen, Boredot Ricardo, I'm going to AI Colin here. Okay? I just want to let you know, so you take your eyes off the TV and stop watching soccer for a minute. The Mount Rushmore according to AI Colin of New York Knicks.

[AI Colin]

More of New York Knicks starts with Patrick Ewing. 15 years franchise cornerstone, the face of the Garden. Then I'm going Walt Clyde Frazier, Willis Reed, and I'll put Jalen Brunson on it right now because he's already stacking 40 point nights and dragging them through big moments. That's the mix titles legacy and the modern engine.

[Stu Gats]

I don't know. I think AI Colin might be a victim to recency bias. Also, you had mellow, probably. No, not necessarily mellow.

[Taylor]

Bernard King.

[Stu Gats]

Yeah, I gotta go, Bernard. I mean, look, while we were talking to Greenie yesterday, I spent most of the time just looking at Bernard King stats. That dude was good. Talk about the King. He should have been the chosen one, right?

[Taylor]

I also have another. Yes, I also have another athlete if they were named after a designer brand.

[Stu Gotts]

What? Okay, it's an oi. What is this right, Jeff?

[Taylor]

Giorgio Armani.

[Stu Gats]

Do you have demarcia? I pronounced that wrong. I'm so stupid.

[Stu Gotts]

8 7, 7 for the herd. 877 for the herd. Is he?

[Stu Gats]

I also believe that. No, I'm going to sort of run right through this. I also believe that James Harden is going to ruin these caval. He's going to ruin these Cavaliers. Donovan Mitchell is already not like the vocal, like, rah, rah, let's go, leader. And then James Harden is definitely not that. Right. So if James Harden is playing like poo poo, you're not going to see Donovan Mitchell go after him. In fact, I don't know if you saw this after the game where Donovan Mitchell is like, we're not worried he's James Harden. That's exactly why you should be worried. Like, honestly, if I'm the coach there, I'm. I'm probably lessening his minutes to, like, 24, 22. And then just see what happens because it's pretty obvious when you continually have more turnovers and field goals made, you should not be the point guard.

[Stu Gotts]

Taylor, put it on the poll. Does Izzy care about James Harden more than any other person on the planet?

[Stu Gats]

I've never cared about a Cleveland Cavaliers basketball playoff series more than this one because of James Harden.

[Stu Gotts]

So I'm not gonna. Yeah, go ahead, Taylor. Go ahead.

[Taylor]

As a Yankee fan, to me, what this feels like is I am hyper aware to any time anybody says anything about Derek Jeter, to where if I'll, like, just be walking down the street and all of a sudden my spidey senses start tingling being like, I could. I know somebody right now in Boston on. On. Wei is talking about Derek Jeter not being that great of a defender.

[Stu Gats]

Right?

[Stu Gotts]

Taylor, I think we were talking about, you know, wrong place, wrong time, kind of hall of Fame. Right place, right time. Taylor, leave the room for a second. Okay, Just. If you wouldn't mind, because I want to ask these guys a question.

[Taylor]

Don't you dare.

[Stu Gats]

Dangerous game. Everything together over here.

[Stu Gotts]

No, I really. Because. Because I do believe, like, with Draymond Green, I was thinking about this. Michael Irvin once told me, you've really

[Stu Gats]

been thinking about Draymond Green a lot the last 24 hours.

[Stu Gotts]

I really have, because I don't. Listen, I've been thinking about his career and whether or not I would like to have his career. But. But. But Draymond Green is not a guy. If you placed him, if he was drafted by the Hornets, okay, There's no way that Draymond Green has the career that he's had. So he landed right place, right time. Okay? Michael Irvin used to tell me that there are guys who win championships and there are Guys who win those guys championships, meaning the reason they have rings is because of guys like Michael Jordan. And there's a big, big difference. Now, basketball is a different sport. You're playing five at a time. One guy is as important in that sport than any other sport. So, Taylor, I need you to leave the room for a second when I ask these guys this question, because I want them to guess what your reaction is going to be. Okay, he's gone. Derek Jeter. If he goes to the Pirates, okay, Right place, right time, Mikey's gonna get mad at me. I already see it. But if Derek Jeter plays out his entire career with the Pittsburgh Pirates, we do not think of Derek Jeter the way we do today. Is that fair?

[Stu Gats]

So you're. How do you think Taylor can react to that?

[Stu Gotts]

Yes.

[Stu Gats]

Is right place, right time, hall of fame?

[Stu Gotts]

100%. Yes. I'm saying if he played for the Pirates, he would not be Derek Jeter. He would be, but you know what I'm saying. Yeah.

[Stu Gats]

I think Taylor will divorce you on the spot. I think it's just the new show just going to be stugats and maybe

[Stu Gotts]

Izzy, that's no company.

[Stu Gats]

No company? No. Taylor company's leaving now. The VIP room. Gone.

[Taylor]

I'll tell you what happens. If Derek Jeter was a Pirate.

[Stu Gats]

Wait, how'd you get back in here?

[Stu Gotts]

Jason weren't supposed to be listening.

[Taylor]

Jason Kendall becomes Jorge Posada. Oliver Perez becomes Andy Pettit. The pieces around Derek Jeter. Derek Jeter is an elevator. Everybody around Derek Jeter gets better. Aramis Ramirez today is a Hall of Famer. If Derek Jeter was a Pirate, right?

[Stu Gats]

Yep. Terrible person to choose Derek Jeter, of all people stuff.

[Taylor]

Worst one.

[Stu Gotts]

No, it's. No, it is. Guys, come on, serious. If Derek Jeter was. If he came up in the Pirates farm system and played his entire career for Pittsburgh, you think Jeter is good enough? Where Pittsburgh would have won World Series.

[Stu Gats]

What are you crazy? I'll tell you. I'll tell you another thing. Not only good, but Jim Leland was the manager of the Pittsburgh Pirates in 1996, which was Derek Jeter's rookie year. Okay. With the Yankees.

[Stu Gotts]

Yes.

[Stu Gats]

If Jim Leland had been managing Derek Jeter as a rookie, he never would have left Pittsburgh, never would have gotten to Florida, never would have won a World Series with the Marlins.

[Stu Gotts]

Okay?

[Stu Gats]

He would have stayed there.

[Taylor]

He would have been.

[Stu Gats]

Yeah, he would have stayed there and. And managed Derek Jeter for the entirety of his career.

[Taylor]

Brian Giles would be Bernie Williams.

[Stu Gotts]

What are you guys talk. So Wait a.

[Stu Gats]

What are you doing?

[Stu Gotts]

So the Pirates would be the Yankees. There'd be a Monument park out in Pittsburgh Stadium right now, where I'm actually

[Stu Gats]

sitting here flipping through the seasons of Pittsburgh starting in 96, not a 500 season among them. And so, yeah, Derek Jeter would have turned this into more than a respectable organization. Again.

[Taylor]

Remember David Wells?

[Stu Gotts]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Pirates had Kip Wells.

[Stu Gats]

He becomes the same thing.

[Stu Gotts]

A couple of Wells cutting it up.

[Stu Gats]

Yeah. Now I'm looking at 2009 to see if he would have won the World Series with Those Pittsburgh Pirates, man, 62 and 99 would have had a lot of work to do.

[AI Colin]

Right.

[Stu Gotts]

That's what I'm saying. One guy does not make up that difference. Not in that sport. Not when you're playing nine guys at a time. Doesn't work like that. I mean, come on.

[Stu Gats]

But to suggest that Derek Jeter is in the right place, right time, hall of Fame.

[Stu Gotts]

Yeah.

[Stu Gats]

Might be one of your worst takes.

[Stu Gotts]

No, it's not. No. Take Derek Jeter off the Yankees. Okay? He goes. It's the right place at the right time. That's all he was. It's right place. Right, Right. That's all.

[Stu Gats]

But I could have picked about a dozen organizations that would have been the right place for the right time for that guy. Because that guy is that good.

[Stu Gotts]

Right. Do you agree? Scottie Pippen, Right place, right time.

[Stu Gats]

Yes.

[Stu Gotts]

Yes. Right. Like Scotty Pippen goes to the LA Clippers and he's not Scotty Pippen. That's what I'm saying.

[Stu Gats]

He's not in the right place. Right place, right time, hall of Fame. Because I still think he would have had a Hall of Fame career. It might have been fringe as opposed to automatic first ballot hall of Famer, but he still would have been a five, six, maybe seven time All Star, great defender, probably would have had a Hall of Fame career for himself.

[Stu Gotts]

So every year would have been similar to the year he played without Jordan, where they get to the Eastern Conference semifinals. He was still a very good player. He was in the conversation that year. Yeah, for sure. The mvp. All right, all right, that's fair. But Jeter to the Royals, I mean, come on. I mean, what do you guys.

[Stu Gats]

All right, let me check the 1996 Royals and see what they were doing.

[Stu Gotts]

Do the Pirates play in pinstripes? Like, what are we doing? I don't understand. Seriously.

[Taylor]

We would have got pinstripes added to the Pirates uniforms. Pittsburgh and Pirates would have stood for pinstripes.

[Stu Gats]

What we're doing right now, Steve, is going to break. Listen to us St and company live from 3 to 5 Eastern Monday through Friday on Fox Sports Radio. Also stream us live wherever you happen to be in the iHeart app. Catch us in all our Fox sports radio shows live 247 in the new and improved iHeart app. Just search Fox Sports Radio in the app to stream us live all day every day. And be sure to select Fox Sports Radio as one of your presets in the iHeart app so it'll always pop up at the top of your screen.

[Stu Gotts]

One more herd the herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

[Stu Gats]

Hey, it's Covino and Rich from Fox Sports Radio.

[Stu Gotts]

Now, in addition to hearing us live weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2

[Stu Gats]

to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio,

[Stu Gotts]

we're excited to announce a brand new

[Taylor]

YouTube channel for the show.

[Stu Gotts]

Yup, that's right. You can now watch Covino enriched live

[Taylor]

on YouTube every day.

[Stu Gotts]

All you gotta do search Covino Enrich FSR on YouTube again. Go to YouTube search Covinoenrich FSR. Check us out on YouTube. Subscribe.

[Taylor]

Hit that thumbs up icon and comment away.

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[Stu Gats]

What's up, fam?

[Isaiah Thomas]

It's Isaiah Thomas and I'm C.J.

[Taylor]

toledano. And our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds.

[Isaiah Thomas]

Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luka and Austin Reed and finding ways

[Taylor]

to win no matter what.

[Isaiah Thomas]

He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before, and he knows without Luka and Austin Reaves, I gotta manipulate the game.

[Taylor]

We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs.

[Isaiah Thomas]

I think Joker's gonna be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed, he has to guard Julius Randle, and then he has to give us everything. He gives us on a night to night basis on offense.

[Taylor]

And when it's friends stop by like Quinton Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.

[Stu Gats]

Steve Nash would get that thing that hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like after you go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Oh yeah. Get your ass up and down the court and you gonna get the ball.

[Taylor]

So listen to Point game on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Stu Gats]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show. Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird.

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[Taylor]

Oh, no.

[Stu Gats]

We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual.

[Stu Gotts]

Together.

[Stu Gats]

We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird. Yeah, the bird looks out of your league. Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

[Stu Gotts]

All right, I have a question for you guys before we get to OKC and the Lakers. Interesting that the Lakers feel like the refs have it in for. We'll get to that in just a second. LeBron was great. Again, I got to tell you, I watch even as they lose by 18 every time I watch LeBron and I marvel I do that. He's doing this at this age. It's pretty impressive. But the question I have for you guys is I played a sound from you sound for you about a month ago of Tom Rinaldi right before the Masters, talking, telling a story about how he was invited by a guest to play at Augusta and he could bring somebody with him. And the first call he made was to his brother. Now, his brother worked for the government. He couldn't get the day off. He couldn't make it down to Augusta to play in the round. So Tom took a friend who was, you know, at a very desperate time in his life, and it was healing for his friend, but his brother couldn't go. And then Tom told us later on that his brother was upset. And, you know, me and Mikey A made fun of his brother, because when you get the call to play Augusta, you drop everything you do you're doing, and you go play that course. You go play Augusta. You go play where they play the Masters. That's what you have to do. I don't care what your job is. Quit. So we had that story then. We had the story yesterday of Mike Rickwit, of Mike Greenberg, okay? He was offered two courtside seats, and he called his son, and his son couldn't make it home for the game. And to make matters worse, Greedy took his daughter, and the daughter was shaking hands with Chalamet and Jay Z and all the celebrities who were sitting courtside at the Nick game. But we all know the sun was really, really upset. And so I am asking you guys, which one is worse? The sun not being able to sit courtside for Nick Sixers with his dad courtside next to Jay Z with his dad for a game against the Sixers in the postseason? Or Rinaldi's brother not being able to make it down to Augusta to play that course? Huh?

[Stu Gats]

Me, personally, it's way worse to miss out on the courtside Knicks playoff experience number one. Because I don't care how many azaleas there are, golf is too frustrating for me. Like, I will. I would tear that course apart just out of frustration, more so than I will have a lovely time. And so. And, you know, with the Knicks thing, there's also evidence that you were there, right?

[Stu Gotts]

Yeah.

[Stu Gats]

There's an easy answer to this, and it's not. The easy answer is, sorry, there's an

[Taylor]

easy answer to this, and it's not what Izzy said. There's an amount of money you can pay to sit courtside at any game.

[Stu Gats]

There isn't an amount of money you

[Taylor]

can pay without knowing somebody to play Augustine up.

[Stu Gotts]

Yes. Yeah, like you.

[Taylor]

If. If I empty my savings account and take out a loan, I can go sit court side at the next Knicks game, but I can't get on at Augusta this week.

[Stu Gats]

Why am I harassing somebody just to be frustrated for four hours straight? Like, again, I don't care how pretty the flowers are or the greens are. I. I'm taking that Nick scape.

[Taylor]

I'm with Izzy on this one because.

[Stu Gotts]

Well, of course you are.

[Taylor]

I am. I am not the. No, I love golf. I absolutely love golf.

[Stu Gats]

He practices his golf swing in front of the elevator pretty much every day.

[Stu Gotts]

Yeah, if.

[Taylor]

If you told me, hey, you could play Augusta five years from now or sit at a courtside seat at a Knicks game. I'm choosing playing Augusta five years from now. And then the next five years, I'm gonna be training like I'm prime Tiger woods for Augusta. I don't want to go to Augusta and shoot up 150.

[Stu Gotts]

Yeah, but you played Augusta. It's a once in a lifetime experience. As Mikey said, once in a lifetime experience.

[Taylor]

I shot 200.

[AI Colin]

What?

[Stu Gotts]

But, Taylor, you don't get five months to prepare. You're not on the PGA Tour. When someone calls and says, come play Augusta, you don't have any time to prepare. You quit when you go play the course.

[Stu Gats]

I mean, when you're done with the round, what do people ask you, Stu, how'd you shoot it? And if you shot a 200? Me?

[Taylor]

Wrong.

[Stu Gats]

Prove me wrong.

[Stu Gotts]

So if you remember the story that Rinaldi told about the friend that he took, his friend played terribly, but he didn't care. He was playing Augusta, and it was life changing for him. It was healing for him.

[Stu Gats]

Yeah, no, I'm not that hurt. I don't need that much healing. I'm good.

[Stu Gotts]

Yeah. That is Mikey. Mikey thought so. I spoke to Mikey about this before the show started, and I was with him. Obvious answer. Everyone's gonna say Augusta, and yet here we are divided. That's what sports radio is all about. We can't have consensus. We have to be divided.

[Stu Gats]

I'm taking that Knicks courtside game, and I'm looking over at Chalamet, and I'm doing one of these, like, you and me. You and me. And I'm signaling jersey swap because I want that jacket he was wearing so badly. It's not gonna look good on me, but I want it. I'll be playing imagine celebrities doing jersey swaps after the game. I'd Watch that, would you?

[Stu Gotts]

Why?

[Stu Gats]

Well, mostly because they're gonna take their shirts off in front of people.

[Taylor]

I'm an irrational confidence as a Knicks fan and just somebody in. In the younger stages of my life. Being 32, if I met Timothy Chalamet, I think me and him would be friends. Like me. Currently him. Currently him being one of the biggest celebrities in on Earth. I think we would connect over our love for the Knicks so much that, like, he would be like, Taylor, you want to. You want to come to this after party today? Sabrina Carpenter's. Even. Even some of the Knicks can't get

[Stu Gats]

on that list he hid on the garden floor.

[Stu Gotts]

No, I think Taylor's right. Your friends by association, meaning if you're sitting in the front row, everyone thinks you're a celebrity, you're important, you mean something. And I think you could parlay that experience into being friends and tricking Chalamet into thinking that you're actually important and as famous as he is. I did.

[Stu Gats]

I don't want to give anybody any ideas, but I would absolutely watch sort of a buddy cop movie with Ben Stiller and Timothee Chalamet. And the premise is they're both. Both great detectives, also huge Knicks fans. I would watch it, and Taylor would probably have a cameo because they connect that way.

[Taylor]

I love that Taylor thinks that, like, he's the only other Knicks fan for Timmy to Chalamet to connect to. No, because Stu, you know, growing up listening to wfan, like, some of those hosts became actual friends with. With people in the market. Or like. Like WFAN hosts are friends with Seinfeld or WFAN hosts.

[Stu Gotts]

Yes.

[Taylor]

Are friends with people of that stature. I don't think it's crazy to say that. If Timothy Chalamet heard me talk about the Knicks and was like, man, this guy's kind of funny. He's kind of got some characters. Charismatic charm to him. His girlfriend gets along with Kylie very well, like, charismatic.

[Stu Gotts]

So you're talking about the relationship that Steve Summers has with Jerry Seinfeld and thinking you could do the same with Timothy Chalamet.

[Taylor]

Salicata.

[Stu Gats]

I love how Taylor is such a pure sports fan that when he's not watching the sports he loves, he's fantasizing about hanging out with celebrity fans of the sports he loves.

[Stu Gotts]

Yeah. Well, I agree with Taylor. I do think him and Chalamet would get along. I really do.

[Taylor]

Stu saw me in Tahoe. There's a switch I could flip when I have to be overly confident to be like, buddy, buddy with people. Me and Me and Vince Carter were holding court for, you know, three hours.

[Stu Gats]

I saw it super bowl week.

[Taylor]

Stu came back and he was like, hey, did you get Vince Carter on the show? I said, what? What show?

[Stu Gotts]

He was holding. He was holding court with Vince Carter while I was hosting the show by myself. Didn't bother to ask Vince to come on the show. Became friends with Vince, but never got Vince on the show. He was josted. Colin Jost is always out in Lake Tahoe. And I told Taylor, be careful because when guys say, hey, I'll be right over, that means they're never coming over to the table, stand by him and stay with them. But Taylor is a different person. Like I'm telling you, when he has a microphone in front of it, in front of his face, he's more confident when he works a room and it's the most famous room in sports. I am telling you right now, that Lake Tahoe room the night before the tournament starts is as famous a sports room and celebrity room as you'll ever walk in. You have, you know, 60, 70 celebrities all in one place. And I am telling you, Izzy, this is going to be shocking to both of you that Taylor worked that room the way I would work that room. It was amazing to see.

[Taylor]

Exactly. All I'm asking for is the one on one time with Chalamet. Just, just get me in the meeting. Let me give him my ele pitch on why I think I would be a great friend to him. This is the same kid who the Knicks were doing like ticket giveaways. It was Landry Fields and Andy Routen's the, the Syracuse sharpshooter. They were doing. They were doing ticket giveaways like, hey, the first fans that could find us here at Grand Central are going to win these tickets. And it was like a 7. It was like a 10 year old Timothy Chalamet winning these tickets. Like Timothy Chalamet is as die hard a Knicks fan as a celebrity Knicks fan can get. And I'm just saying that we would have that one common thing to bond. Justin Bieber is another person that I kind of have this, this thought with because we were both born March 1, 1994.

[Stu Gats]

While we're at it, I think Tina Fey and I would get along famously. Tina, if you want to hang out at any given time, that'd be amazing.

[Stu Gotts]

He is unhinged right now.

[Stu Gats]

He's just prove him wrong.

[Stu Gotts]

I agree with him.

[Stu Gats]

Get Justin Bieber over here. Prove him wrong, Stu.

[Taylor]

If I walked up to Justin Bieber and my icebreaker Was, hey, I pull out my ID and he looks at my ID and he sees March 1, 1994, his exact birthday, down to the year. He would be like, oh, connection point. Here we go.

[Stu Gotts]

Yes. It's a conversation. It is. We have the same birthday. Me and Adnan have the same birthday. It's how we became friends.

[Taylor]

Not as impressive as Bieber.

[Stu Gotts]

No, not at all.

[Stu Gats]

Not even.

[Stu Gotts]

My point is, it's a connection point that led to a friendship. That's all I'm saying. And I believe in Taylor and his ability to make connection points and then become friends with them. I do. And then once they really get to know him and realize he doesn't have much to say, perhaps the friendship dissolves from there.

[Stu Gats]

I mean, I think if you're sitting at a table with Justin Bieber and Timothee Chalamet, it might be the most famous, currently the most famous table in the world.

[Taylor]

And Taylor and I think, I think if you, if I was sitting at a table with Chalamet Bieber, I would not be so out of place where somebody would be like, who's that guy? Well, people would say, who's that guy? Just because they don't know me, but they would be like, that guy is somebody.

[Stu Gotts]

Right. One seed, one courtside seed at Madison Square Garden. Bieber or Chalamet, who gets it?

[Stu Gats]

That's not even close, by the way.

[Stu Gotts]

Is the, how about Stiller or Bieber? It's still, it shouldn't be Stiller, though. I mean, he was at the Met Gala.

[Taylor]

Seriously, don't question Ben Stiller. Knicks bona fides. This Ben Stiller is the fan who's like, oh, Kevin Knox just looked really great in game seven of summer league. Like, like Ben Stiller. People are giving him a hard time for, for missing game one, going to the Met Gala. I, I, I will not say a bad word about Ben Stiller. I would love for Ben Stiller to get on the show. Maybe Hank is area could get him.

[Stu Gotts]

Maybe he could.

[Stu Gats]

Yes.

[Stu Gotts]

And maybe, yes. He could introduce you to Timothy Chalamet. Hank is area good, by the way.

[Stu Gats]

I think I might be the most famous person that was born on June 26, 1977.

[Stu Gotts]

There's no way. It's impossible. There's no way. No.

[Stu Gats]

I'm gonna drop some names on you. You tell me if you know them. Kubo. Tite.

[Stu Gotts]

Oh, I love Tita. Yes.

[Stu Gats]

Mark Jindrek.

[Stu Gotts]

Gin.

[Stu Gats]

Yeah. Ginny Ricardo knows him. But do you know me more? You do. Jorge Posa, Poser. And then Quincy Lewis, who Apparently played in the NBA. Who I know for Q man, the Cuban.

[Taylor]

That's what his friends call.

[Stu Gats]

The funny thing is, while I might be the most famous person, I somehow didn't make this list that I. That I Googled. So maybe not.

[Stu Gotts]

I might never get to Israel. I might never get to Oklahoma City and the Lakers. Because I have another question. If you're greedy and you have two courtside seats and you have a family of four and everyone's available to go to the game, what do you do? Who do you invite? So he has a son, he has a daughter, and he has a wife, but he has two tickets. A greedy made it very clear that he was using one of those two tickets. There was no way he was giving them to his son and his daughter to go to the game together. Greenie was going, so what do you do with that other ticket? Because I like where Greenie was thinking. Because this is what I would do. Find somebody, anybody. In fact, this is the first call I would make because I wouldn't want to decide between Emma or Rachel. Okay? And Abby's out of the equation. She has no interest in going to that game. The first call I would make, okay, I would hire a sales team to do this for me is find somebody that could do something for me that I couldn't do. Access to, something I wouldn't normally have access to unless I took this guy, this person to the Knicks game. It's at courtside. It would be a member at Augusta.

[Stu Gats]

That's.

[Stu Gotts]

And I would. I'm telling you, I would hire a sales staff of 15 people to cold call until we found the guy that I wanted to it.

[Taylor]

You're auctioning off the ticket for favors?

[Stu Gotts]

Yes.

[Stu Gats]

Find it hilarious that Stu Gats has spent the last 24 hours thinking about Draymond Green and Mike Greenberg. So we'll get to yesterday's games tomorrow. Today we got to talk about yesterday's topics.

[Taylor]

But, Stu, to answer your question, if I was in Greeny scenario there, It's

[Stu Gotts]

a tough one, man. It is.

[Taylor]

The kids are out of the question because I. I think Greeny is right that you can't split the kids up and give preferential treatment unless one of them is like a very die hard Knicks fan and the other really doesn't have much interest. But it sounds like when you're raised in the Greeny household, everybody loves sports and that's. I would expect nothing less from the Green.

[Stu Gats]

If you have to pick one kid, you pick no kids.

[Taylor]

Exactly.

[Stu Gats]

Take another adult. They'll understand so Stu, what I would

[Taylor]

do is I would look up who is on the cast of get up the Next Day and choose who I would want to spend the most time with. Like if I'm looking at maybe it's Dan Orlovsky, Dan Graziano and Dominique Foxworth. I'm looking at that list and saying Dominique would probably be the best hang out of those three.

[Stu Gats]

Yeah, he declined.

[Stu Gotts]

Easy. Yeah, easy one.

[Stu Gats]

If you missed any of today's show, be sure to catch the podcast. Just search Dugouts and company Live wherever you get your podcast, please follow the podcast, rate it five stars and provide a review. Again, just search Stugots Co. Live wherever you get your podcast and you'll find today's full show and a best of version posted right after the show. Also, check out our original podcast, stu Gotts Co. God bless football. And with Stu Gotts and Hawkman, be

[Stu Gotts]

sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Jeff Pass is gonna join us in about 15 minutes, 2 o'.

[Stu Gats]

Clock.

[Stu Gotts]

Looking forward to speaking to him. He also went to Syracuse. He'll be outraged that I'm sitting here at his school damaging, tarnishing its great name, the Newhouse School of Broadcasting. Izzy, what'd you make of the Lakers? By the way, I want to get to some sound here of Bill Simmons in just a second, but what'd you make of the Lakers complaining here about the referees? Last night they go down 02 to Oklahoma City. I thought the Lakers played well and yet Oklahoma State, he's still won by 18 points.

[Stu Gats]

I'm going to sneak this in here. You can listen to Stu Gotzon Company live each weekday from 3 to 5 Eastern on Fox Sports Radio. Also, stream us live wherever you happen to be in the iHeart Apple. Catch us in all our Fox sports radio shows live 24. 7 in the new and improved iHeart app. Just search Fox Sports Radio in the app and stream us live all day every day. And be sure to select Fox Sports Radio as one of your presets in the iHeart app so it'll always pop up in the top corner of your screen. What I made of that game yesterday, Stu, was that it's not just the Lakers who are upset with the officiating against okc. It's every team that plays against OKC and they're upset with the officiating. And and what happens when this happens? Stu is now everything becomes an issue. It's us against Them it's the Lakers versus the refs. And then you had a situation yesterday late in the game on a jump ball where Austin Reaves was effectively yelled at by John Goble, I believe the lead ref in that game. And Austin took that as a version, as a measure of disrespect and then went to his face afterward. And now it's very much an us versus them situation. And what I wonder about this, Stu, is like, like when people say it is the referees that are affecting this series or affecting every single series that OKC plays. In what reasoning? After everything we've talked about, the NBA not wouldn't love this team, right? ZZZ plus, as Taylor says, this team leads the league in ZZZ plus. Shay Gilgis Alexander has already reached the pinnacle, right? Do we, does, does the NBA fan, you know, do the NBA fans want to see him continue to succeed? Right? And, and they're really kind of angry because they feel like he foul baits. So why would it, like, why would it be beneficial for the officials, for the league for anybody to favor OKC in these games to give Shay Gildas Alexander these calls or to not make these calls against Lou Dort or, you know, Alex Caruso? Why? And so either OKC is just doing a, an amazing job of effectively baiting these referees in the same way that I just complained James Harden used to do. Or, or yeah, everybody's crazy or everybody's crazy and just looking for a reason to complain about this team because they don't like watching them play. I'm just confused by why they think the officials would do that. Because if I'm the NBA, I'm telling the officials, hey, don't give them those calls we don't want again.

[Stu Gotts]

But you're acting like, yeah, you're suggesting those conversations happen. Fans think those conversations.

[Stu Gats]

Well, everybody thinks those conversations happen.

[Stu Gotts]

Taylor, why were you smirking there? Because he's right. Why would the NBA, why would the referees, why would anyone want Oklahoma City to advance over the Lakers? No one would. I mean nobody.

[Taylor]

Especially against a team like the Lakers and LeBron. And if the Lakers make it past this series, you have the Luca factor coming back in. What I was laughing at is AI Colin. I wanted to ask AI Colin about the Thunder Lakers game to get his thoughts on that action.

[AI Colin]

That game too. Was the Thunder telling you we're the grown ups here. They win 125 to 107 and Shay Gilgis Alexander doesn't even have to be Superman, man. Chad holmgren gives you 22 and the scary part is they took control in that third quarter, even with Shea in foul trouble, 32 to 15 while he's sitting, Austin Reeves drops 31. And it still doesn't matter because without Luka Doncic, the Lakers just don't have enough creation for four quarters.

[Stu Gats]

Why are we even here, man? Why can't we just run him?

[Stu Gotts]

Why does it hurt? Right, yes. Just have that do the show for you.

[Stu Gats]

I mean, Jesus, I'm sorry. If you have a deandre Ayton, which, who often looks like a confused big man against very good defensive teams, he's giving you three points, one for seven shooting, and you're complaining about the officiating. Like, I get it. Everybody wants to see the, the Thunder get put in their place. Nobody wants to see foul baiting get rewarded. No, but then do it better, you know what I mean? Like, I, I get that, that whole complaint stuff, but you're not in position to really complain right now. Now, granted, it's because you know your best player is out and you just don't really match up with this team at all. But it gets a little tired and I just don't love the complaining within the series when you're clearly overmatched.

[Stu Gotts]

I want to ask AI another question here before we go to break and Jeff Pass is going to join us because it's a debate that we've been having since the beginning of sports radio and it's going to be the last segment I do on sports radio on my final show. I will end the show having this debate. And I don't care how long it is from now, like if it's 20 years from now, I'll still be having this debate. I'm not going to make it 20 years. What am I talking about? Right? Okay, so I want to get. Listen, it's the debate. I would say number two on the list is Marino Montana. Number one on the sports radio list of debates is Michael Jordan versus LeBron. AI Colin, take it away.

[AI Colin]

Michael Jordan is the greatest peak the sport's ever seen. Six for six in the finals. And when the moment got tight, he turned games into personal property. LeBron James is the greatest career we've ever seen. Longevity, production. And he just passed Jordan with his 563rd regular season 30 point game, even if it took him a lot more games to get there. So if you want the scariest guy for one series, one season, one last shot, it's Jordan. If you want the best 20 year investment, it's LeBron. That's the split peak versus lifespan. Dominance versus durability.

[Stu Gats]

He's a quack. That's how you do it.

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[Stu Gats]

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