THE HERD - Hour 2 - Illinois head coach Brad Underwood stops by The Herd

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Hour 2, March 31, 2026

Special Guest: Illinois Head Coach Brad Underwood

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Herd centers around the evolution of college basketball, the impact of NIL (Name, Image, Likeness) money, and the internationalization of talent—particularly illustrated through the remarkable 2025-26 Illinois men’s basketball team. Colin dives deep with Brad Underwood on building a winning program, the real impact of NIL, international recruiting, and what distinguishes the current Final Four teams.

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Major Discussion Points & Insights

1. NIL: Fuel or Fiasco? (04:01–06:59)

• Colin Cowherd’s Take: Money (NIL) can buy talent, but not championship culture or happiness. Cites examples in pro and college sports where huge spenders (e.g., Kentucky, BYU, Duke, Texas football, Phoenix Suns) fell short despite big budgets.
  • Quote: “The Nil money is jet fuel if you got a great head coach and an excellent culture. If you don’t, all it does is raise expectations and get coaches fired.” (05:43)
• Fans’ Perspective: Distrust and dislike of NIL partially reflect psychological discomfort with seeing others ‘separate’ (become more successful/wealthy), illustrated with a humorous Oprah Winfrey anecdote.
• Key Finding: Programs with solid cultures like UConn, Illinois, Michigan, and Arizona thrive, regardless of roster expense.

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2. Building Illinois’ Unique Roster (07:24–11:57)

• Freshman Sensation – Keaton Wagler:
  • Underwood describes how an under-recruited, 6’6” guard from Kansas quickly earned trust and respect.
  • Quote (Brad Underwood, 08:05): “Kyle Boswell walked in—sometime right around the Fourth of July... and he’s like, ‘Coach, this one’s got it.’ … For a stretch of time [in a scrimmage], he was the best player on the court.”
• European Expansion:
  • Recruiting twins from Croatia and Peja Stojakovic’s son.
  • Importance of on-the-ground relationship-building with coaches and agents (“we go over every month to six weeks”).
  • Quote (Brad Underwood, 10:36): “I’m a really big character guy. I want character, not characters.”

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3. Final Four Analysis & UConn Preview (11:57–16:09)

• Illinois as a Second Half Team:
  • Emphasis on depth, rhythm, and the ability to pull away in tough, physical matchups.
  • Quote (Underwood, 13:35): “I think we have eight starters. That’s helped us. We’ve been in two just nasty street fights with Houston and Iowa… physical, hard-nosed... finally found footing offensively and were able to pull away.”
• UConn’s Distinctiveness:
  • “Their culture... is maybe unrivaled. They maintain a composure that is maybe unrivaled.” (12:46)
  • Praises the understated talent of role players (e.g., Alex Karaban).

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4. This Year’s Final Four: Any Team Can Win (14:55–16:09)

• Parody & Toughness:
  • Underwood: “I think it’s four teams that any of them can win it. If you don’t play well, you’ll lose. Final Four’s kind of a tough guy’s game.”
  • Special nod to Yaxel Lindenberg and Mara (Michigan) as unique game-changers.

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5. Coaching in the NIL Era: Roster-Building Philosophy (17:04–18:36)

• Underwood’s NIL View:
  • Pro-NIL, credits it for keeping top players in college basketball.
  • The key is leveraging NIL to complete rosters with the right role players and maintaining unselfish team culture.
  • Quote (18:20): “You can spend oodles and gobs of money, but you could just be giving it away to the wrong people.”

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6. Colin’s Broader Reflections on Basketball Quality (18:54–21:11; 35:13–38:38)

• Observes that the surge in international talent, NIL, and retaining high-level players has made college basketball as exciting and high-quality as ever.
• Quote (18:54): “It felt like for about a 15-year stretch, college basketball was just AAU basketball with jet fuel. Now it feels like it’s just the NBA missing one great player a roster.”
• Laments past eras where college games were “clank city,” celebrating the current skill and shot-making.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On NIL’s Role:
  • Colin: “You’re just trying to buy points and that’s not what it is. What you’re trying to buy is leadership, culture, and a specific skill—plug a hole.”
• On the Modern Illinois Roster:
  • Underwood: “Everybody’s got to want to play for the name on the front of the jersey and not the name on the back.” (17:15)
• On International Recruiting:
  • Underwood: “We go over every month to six weeks. One of [the staff] is over there. We developed relationships with agents, with coaches… But they fit us.” (10:36)
• On Modern College Hoops:
  • Colin: “NBA teams have five guys that can handle the ball, at least four on the floor. You can’t have two non scorers, non shooters in the NBA. You’ll get exposed.” (36:30)

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Segments & Timestamps

• NIL and Building Programs: 04:01–06:59
• Brad Underwood Interview:
  • Finding Keaton Wagler: 07:24–09:45
  • International recruitment: 09:46–11:57
  • Culture, UConn matchup, and Final Four: 11:57–16:09
  • NIL and modern role player philosophy: 17:04–18:36
• Colin’s Solo Reflections on College Hoops Quality: 18:54–21:11; picks up again at 35:13–38:38
• Guest Analyst Hot Takes (NBA, Baseball, NFL): 27:05–34:15
• Dan Hurley & Coaching Intensity Segment: 42:36–47:55
• Colin’s Final Four Picks: 51:05–52:34

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Tone & Style

Colin’s signature blend of pop-culture analogies, data points, humor, and insider references keeps the discussion lively, accessible, and occasionally irreverent. Brad Underwood brings candid, practical coaching wisdom with a focus on team culture, international connections, and the nuanced reality of modern college basketball.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode delivers valuable insight into what’s actually driving the success of top-tier college basketball teams—not just stars or big NIL money, but culture, chemistry, smart recruiting (including abroad), and the right mix of selfless, gritty role players. Brad Underwood epitomizes the modern college coach: adaptable, international in scope, and devoted to character over clout. And the stakes for this Final Four? Very high—and genuinely wide open.

Transcript

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[Colin Cowherd]

Welcome in. Here we go, hour two all fired up for Brad Underwood, the Illinois head coach. Their their team is fascinated. They found a freshman guard, he's like sga six, six, wiry, totally unrecruited, walked on campus and you're like we got ourselves a lottery pick. They went all spent their money. They got twins from Croatia, pa, Stojakovich's kid. Fascinating team. So I, you know, I've been on this a little bit, but I just want to stamp what I truly believe. This was my prediction and yes, I like to be right when I'm wrong. I admit it. But I kept saying about nil, you can buy a lot of things in life. You can't buy happiness and you can't buy championships. The New York Mets are a great example. They got Steve Cohen. They are rolling out the money and last year, they finished four games over.500 and missed the playoffs. So the most. The five most expensive rosters in college basketball. Kentucky, BYU, Duke, Arkansas and Louisville. None made the Final Four. One made the Elite Eight. And I've said this, the Nil money is jet fuel if you got a great head coach and an excellent culture. If you don't, all it does is raise expectations and get coaches fired. Texas football, number one, nil last year, couldn't make a 12 team playoff. Phoenix Suns last year, 10 games under.500. One of the most expensive rosters in league history. It's like Hollywood. You know, my daughter used to live in. They call it WeHo West Hollywood. 10,000 beautiful men and women that are perpetually unemployed. You'll see them at Equinox and Trader Joe's every day in Hollywood. Do they have the work ethic? Do they have the commitment? They're beautiful. They should be on the big screen and they can't get work. There's so many things that matter. Here's the truth. Fans don't like the NIL because people don't like when other people separate from them. The example I would use, Oprah Winfrey got less popular when she went on a diet and lost 40 pounds. True story. I used to work at NBC. The. Literally, her likability rating shrank as she lost weight because the feeling was, oh, now she's rich and she's thin and she. We don't like people separating from us. And, you know, Kentucky, by the way, is a rich basketball program. They're in their longest Elite Eight drought in team history. So I. I'm not saying that you can't. You know, Mick Cronin and I talked about it. I'm not saying you can't get a better roster. But what if they don't fit? What if you can't coach? What if your culture stinks? All These teams left, UConn, Illinois,

[Sophie Cunningham]

you

[Colin Cowherd]

know, they're all like, Michigan, Dusty May, great culture. Arizona. Tommy Lloyd was up at Gonzaga for 20 years. He saw what a great culture. It's hard to get players to Spokane. Well, not anymore, because they have a great system and a great coach and a great culture. And with that, Brad Underwood is joining us live. Fascinating team. Anyway, I'm on one of my rants, Brad, about all this Nil stuff.

[Brad Underwood]

I love it. I love it. I was taking it all in.

[Colin Cowherd]

So your team is probably the most fascinating. You go get a player, Keaton Wagler. He's unrecruited, and I watch him play And I'm like, six. Six guards in college basketball are hard to match up with. So when he came from Kansas, I read a story this weekend. You see him finally on campus. How many practices or times in the gym did it take to watch him? And go, we may have just stolen the best high school recruit that nobody knew of in the country. How long did it take you to spot?

[Brad Underwood]

You know, you go through it in the summer. And Keaton got the ultimate compliment from Kyle and Boswell. You know, players. Players are going to go at each other. You know, the new guys coming in, the vets are going to challenge him. They're going to say, okay, who is this guy? Blah, blah, blah. And Kyle Boswell walked in, I'm gonna say, sometime right around the Fourth of July. And he's like, coach, this one's got it. He said, this one's got it. And he said, he's tough. And, you know, we had two one and dones last year. And he goes, this one's different. He said, this one's got it. And, you know, as a coach, you respect a veteran, but you also haven't put him through the fire. You haven't. You haven't. You haven't coached him every day and practice, and they haven't gone through adversity, and they haven't played in front of, you know, fans on the road. And 16,000, you never know how they're. How they're going to react. So this one became. We had a scrimmage with Florida in a little small gym in Orlando, and it was a bloodbath. I mean, it was two teams just. Just competing, going at it. And for a stretch of time there, he was the best player on the court.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

Wow.

[Colin Cowherd]

Wow.

[Brad Underwood]

And I said, okay, he's really tough, and he's got it. He's got a great demeanor. And I knew right then that he was. He was. He was. He was going to have a really good year. Then it took us a little bit just to figure out how to utilize him in the right way.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, and.

[Brad Underwood]

And we. We grew in that area with him.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, it's really. Here's where it's fascinating what you've done. So I think it's easier to recruit domestically because, you know, the good AAU programs you've been coaching in the States, when you go over to Europe, I mean, I love. I'm going with my son to Europe this summer. I'm a visitor. I've been there a few times. I am a visitor. You got twins from Croatia. You got Paige's son. You've got guys from all over Europe, Coach. Maybe you go to Europe five times a year that I don't know about. But how do you know who's good? I mean, obviously there's a bunch of agents trying to sell you their kids. How did you know? Is it just film? I feel like recruiting Europe could be really full of potholes and landmines if you didn't have, like great connections over there. Is it hard?

[Brad Underwood]

Yes. And I give my staff all the credit. Jeff Alexander, Orlando Antigua. We've been nurturing relationships over there for years, and now we go over every month to six weeks. One of them is over there. And we developed relationships with the agents, with the coaches. I did a clinic in Belgrade this summer that was as good a basketball clinic as I've ever been a part of. But they fit us and we had some connections. And again, we got Thomas Slavovic first. And then to be honest, it was, it was, it was leaning on him to find out about the character. To find out about the. Who they are as a person. Do they fit in our locker room?

[Colin Cowherd]

Sure.

[Brad Underwood]

And I'm a really big character guy. I want character, not characters.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Brad Underwood]

And we leaned on him. And you know, obviously one of those guys is his twin brother. And then, you know, David Mirkovich was a teammate and. And it just grew. And Andre Stojakovic was in the portal and he's a guy that fit a hole that we had. And, you know, it just, just so happened is his dad was Peja and he was, you know, he's from over there, but it just has worked great for us.

[Colin Cowherd]

So. Brad Underwood, coach of the Fighting Illini, Illinois, which I was down watching a football game and looking at your basketball facility in this year earlier. And one of the things I like about your program is not a lot of disruptions, not a ton to do. You're into your sports and your academics. I look at your game against UConn, you guys have been an unbelievable second half team this year in the tournament. And UConn is, and this is just my take on UConn is they wear you down and it. Fatigue sets in. And if you're a young team like Duke, it can unravel fast because they got depth and power. Why have you been. I mean, when you think of UConn and you've watched the film already, what jumps off the film of UConn immediately?

[Brad Underwood]

Well, it's very easy to. To me, it just jumps out and smacks you. And that's. And that's their Culture, it's winning. There's no, there's no hiccup in anything they do. They can have a drought. They can play great. They maintain a composure that is, is maybe unrivaled. They don't, they don't ever get too high. They don't ever get too low. You know, they've got. Caravan is one of the best players in the country that no one ever talks about. He's the ultimate winner. And, you know, they can hurt you in a lot of ways. I think that we're a completely different team than when we played them in, on, on Black Friday.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Brad Underwood]

And I think we have eight starters. I think that's helped us. You talk about our second halves. I think that's helped us. And, you know, the rhythm. And we've been in two, just nasty street fights with Houston and Iowa and they were physical and hard nosed and, and then we finally found a little footing offensively and were able to pull away. But, yeah, I expect that same type of game with UConn. They just don't go away and they're relentless. And I like to think that, you know, we're, we're better prepared now than we were in November.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I know you've already. I watched the Michigan game. That was at home. Michigan is, as I said this the other day I went to the United Center. I wanted to watch them live. I thought Michigan's ball movement looked like an NBA team. I think their passing is. I can't even believe it in the half court. Said it's really for college basketball. It's extraordinary. Mara, who was always a good defensive player, now he's become a good offensive hub and passing. And do you look at this Final Four as kind of Michigan up here and three other excellent teams? Or do you think these teams are all. It's anybody's Final Four?

[Brad Underwood]

I think it's four teams that any of them can win it. And if you don't play well, you'll lose. You'll lose. You know, I think that, you know, you've seen, you know, Purdue beat Michigan in the Big Ten tournament. You've seen, you know, Arizona's, you know, had moments this year where they've gotten beat, you know, and I think it's, it's, it's all about who's playing well. Yeah, I think, you know what, I think all four teams are playing really well. And it's, it's a matter of, you know, Michigan has been maybe the best player in the tournament in Yaxel.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, he's great.

[Brad Underwood]

And I think that they have something that maybe the rest of us don't. And Mara, who's just an absolute defensive monster at the rim. But if you don't, if you don't play well, they could lose. And, you know, you got to make shots. You got to, you know, I think they're the Final Fours, you know, kind of a tough guy's game. And you got to be physical and rebound and do all the things to win it. And if you do those things, you got a chance.

[Colin Cowherd]

So you've reached the Elite Eight minimum in two of the last three seasons. You got it rolling. You got the recruiting going, you got the Europe thing going. Is a final question is this is. Listen, I like the Nil because my take is it's college football. A good team can get really good adding two or three play. There was always something in college basketball or football is you used to go to the junior college level or you'd have a hole and you couldn't quite solve it. Well, now you can solve it. You can go find a point guard, you can go find a 3 and D guy. But that means Brad Underwood has to get on the phone with agents, which doesn't even sound like fun. Is there part of you, if I said Brad, okay, you weren't going to be as good eight years ago, but you didn't deal with agents or the new version, which is, hell, you can just go buy something if you can't find it. Well, you tell me as a coach, how do you land with nil?

[Brad Underwood]

Yeah, so I'm a big fan of nil. I think the game of basketball's never been better. I mean, Yaxo wouldn't be in college.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right.

[Brad Underwood]

If it was. If it wasn't for nil.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right.

[Brad Underwood]

You can, you can go on down the list. And college basketball itself, the talent is just unreal. The players are so good and that's helped help that. And I'm for that. I think the key is, is building your roster. I think it's all about role players. I think it's very, I think it's very much like an NBA where you're going to have a couple of guys who, who probably make a little more than the others. But you gotta have role players. You've got, you've got to have guys that, you know. For us, I think that's why we've excelled. Jake Davis and, and Ben Humor cows. Thomas Lava V. Sage. You know, we're bringing Andre Stojakovic now who's all region off the Bench. He was a starter early, had an injury. Everybody's got to want to play for the name on the front of the jersey and not the name on the back. And, and you've got to find those guys. No matter how much money you spend, you can, you can spend oodles and gobs of money, but you could just be giving it away to the wrong people.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right.

[Brad Underwood]

And that's. And to me it's, to me it's about finding the right role players and we'll, we'll all find the talented guys. But, but role players that'll fit in and be a great, great teammates. And joy for their, their success of others is something that's really important to us.

[Colin Cowherd]

Brad Underwood, Coach of Illinois Remarkable team. I have not watched this much college basketball in a long time. The quality of the game is just astounding. And coach, I appreciate you giving us 10 minutes today.

[Brad Underwood]

Thanks, Colin. I appreciate you having me.

[Colin Cowherd]

You bet. They're really good. Number one in the country in. And a lot of it is efficiency with them is. They are very intentional. They can slow it down. I just find European, you know, I asked him like, how do you do the European recruiting? You could get. It feels like you could get, you know, really manipulated or taken because you don't know. But what did he say? We just send people over there. We do, you know, we do camps over there. But the other thing he said, and this is indisputable, and I noticed it three years when UConn won the national championship. The quality of play. I'm watching Michigan at the United Center. The passing looked like an NBA team. The three point shooting, it looked like an NBA team. I mean, it's always been. We talked about this yesterday. You go back to the Duke, Butler, when Butler was good. They're doing it with defense and toughness. You're getting fun, you're getting national championship games, teams shooting 32%. That's awful. Everybody says they love defense. No, you love your team's defense. Nobody likes watching defense unless it's their team's defense. If I said you Super bowl is 6 to 3, you'd only like it if you were the team that ended up with six. Right? Nobody else in the league wants to watch that. The offensive efficiency, shot making, attacking and finishing at the rim is so high at college basketball. I don't know if I said this yesterday. It felt like for about a 15 year stretch, college basketball was just AAU basketball with jet fuel. Now it feels like it's just the NBA missing one great player, a roster. Like, if you put one more player in Michigan, like, like a really high end guy, you'd be like four NBA dudes here. Like, it is really good. All right. We're making things happen today. That ABS system in baseball is just, it is, it is remarkable. The unintended benefit of it. It has become the game show reveal. And it's fantastic. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the iHeartRadio app.

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[Sophie Cunningham]

Hey guys, it's Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. So Arby's just dropped a deal. That honestly feels a little unreal.

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[Sophie Cunningham]

So here's the setup. You choose your sandwich, a classic roast beef crispy chicken or the crispy fish sandwich. Already a very strong start.

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But then it keeps going because you also get melty mozzarella sticks, crispy curly fries, and a peach cobbler roll, which is a little sweet treat and so good. You genuinely need to try this.

[Sophie Cunningham]

And there's a small drink in there too. So even though it's called meat and three, you're actually getting five items for just $7.99. That's kind of wild.

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[Sophie Cunningham]

Available for a limited time at participating locations. While supplies last, prices may vary. Get your Meat in three box at an Arby's near you today.

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is just about everything. You can have all the right talent, right mindset, even have the right team. But if you don't act at the right moment, opportunity slips away.

[Colin Cowherd]

True on the field.

[Verizon/Health Advertiser]

And it's true when it comes to your health. Two words for you right now. Prostate exam. I did mine a year ago. Yeah, are you imagining that finger right now? Relax. Prostate cancer screening starts with a simple finger free blood test. Around one in eight men in the US going to be diagnosed with prostate cancer in their lifetime. But that's no reason to re clench when caught early. At localized or even regional stage, prostate cancer has a 99% five year relative survival rate. So did your tight end. Just relax.

[Colin Cowherd]

Good.

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[Colin Cowherd]

and discuss screening options.

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And the next steps.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's easy.

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right, two truths and a lie. Here we go.

[Colin Cowherd]

I went to college with college football coach Jim McElwaine.

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I began my broadcasting career doing play by play for the Las Vegas Stars. And I've been a Verizon customer for 15 years.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, I lied.

[Verizon/Health Advertiser]

All three are true.

[Colin Cowherd]

Verizon isn't as expensive as you think.

[Verizon/Health Advertiser]

In fact, if you bring in your ATT or T mobile bill to a Verizon store, they'll give you a Better deal. That's right. A better deal on the best network with the most ways to save on plans, streaming and phone deals. So take that AT and T or T Mobile. Build the your local Verizon store today. Get a better deal and start saving based on route metrics Best overall Mobile Network Performance US Second Half 2025 all rights reserve must provide recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply.

[Colin Cowherd]

So last night you can Baseball season starting. I was telling you I was watching the Cubs game Sunday and so I got home last night and Ann says, I want hot dogs. And in Chicago, hot dogs are like an art form. You gotta put tomatoes on em. You gotta have the right kaiser roll, you gotta have the right rolls. Last night we grilled vegetables and hot dogs. J Mac in 72 degree nighttime weather. Knocked down a couple, maybe a red stripe. Nobody lived bigger than me last night.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

Are we getting sponsored by red stripe? Can they send me a case? By the way, tomatoes on hot dogs, is that a real thing?

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, they were gloriously red. I mean just juicy tomatoes and relish and onions. I haven't had hot dogs for dinner. I, I don't think it Sundays I was 8. And Ann's like, no, no, no, no. We're going to grill vegetables. We're going to make this. You think ball you. I love having hot dogs at ballpark. She goes, it was unbelievable how good they were.

[Arby's Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

Isn't it like if you eat a hot dog, you lose like 18 seconds off your life or something or so process something like that perhaps, but I

[Colin Cowherd]

gained a decade last night. That's how work JMac with a new.

[Brad Underwood]

No, no, no.

[Colin Cowherd]

Turn on the news.

[Sonos Advertiser]

This is the Herdline news.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

All right, let's start with Victor Wembanyama. The most dominant player in the NBA this season. Dropped 41 and 16 last night. He had the third fastest double double in the play by play era. I mean that's just ridiculous. He had 10 and 10 through eight minutes in the first quarter last night. Colin, that's ridiculous.

[Colin Cowherd]

When he's hitting his three point shot, it's game over. No, I mean it's not only game over, it's unbeatable. If he hits his threes, nobody's beating the Spurs. You just, you. I mean literally, they are so good, defensively, well coached. And when he's hitting threes. Yeah, that is a, that's like. Remember when Jokic and Denver won the title? You and I were both like, it was gonna be a dynasty. But they lost a bunch of ancillary parts. And Jokic wasn't a good defender. Jamal Murray, it's not a good defender. Wemby is. I don't think he'll ever quite be Jokic. Offensively, maybe not that kind of shooter. Oh, I don't know. But defensively, he's already the best defensive player probably Stretch in the league.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

I mean, in the modern era we could say that. Just a quick note. What a time to be alive, right? There's a unicorn in baseball, Shohei Ohtani pitching and hitting. And a true unicorn in Wembanyama in the NBA. We're never going to see two players like this again. Like, it is pretty incredible. By the way, since February 1st, the spurs are 25, 1 with Wembanyama, 25 and 1. Look at these numbers, Colin. Ridiculous. Wembanyama's putting up extraordinary numbers. It's annoying that the media, the ink stained wretches are going to give the MVP to sga, the free throw merchant, you know, so be it.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is the mvp.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

It should be.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes, this is the mvp. Here's the thing. How many players ever could you say this about? I mean, this is how good Wemby is. Almost everything Jordan could do, LeBron could do. Now, maybe not as well, but he could do it. There are things Wemby does that Michael and LeBron magic can't do.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

Shaq could not do this stuff.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, no. I mean, he is. Defensively, LeBron was. Michael was a great defender. He didn't alter game plans. I mean, literally, this is how good Wemby is. Take the best players in league history. I mean, Bill Russell back in the 60s. Oh, come on. 6:10. Well, that's right, but the players were smaller. The game wasn't as athletic. But I'm saying Wemby does stuff that Steph lebron, Magic Bird, Michael Duncan can't do.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

That is when you get into discussion of. Well, that's the greatest basketball phenom of all time.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

Yeah. So when the playoffs are coming up, you know, the Knicks and Lakers are going to get the primetime spots, probably the Celtics. I'm just telling you, the spurs are probably going to be getting the premium games ahead of the Thunder, ahead of some of the other good teams. Anthony Edwards, Jokic. I know people are going to be upset. I want to watch Wemby. I want to turn on my TV and see that guy.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

Cook every single night. All right, let's go to the next story. This is interesting stuff from Tracy McGrady. One of my favorite players in the early 2000s. I love T. Mac, but he has, he has a take right now that the older generation of NBA players, they don't want me to name names, but you know who I'm talking about. He's been, they have been very critical of the current era. And T. Mac says it all comes down to money. And if you look at how Kevin Garnett was the highest paid player in 2001, Colin, he was making 19 million a year, 19 mil. There's now like 50 guys making more than KGB, maybe more. And he. TMac thinks the reason all these guys are ornery on TV and podcasts ranting about the current era is because of the money. Jaylen Brown's making extraordinary money. All these guys are. Look at this salary. Like, I don't see why they're hating, but go ahead.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, I think, I think money's a

[Verizon/Health Advertiser]

big part of it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Money is something for men. It's just a thing. Career ascension, money is a big deal.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

But it's like 20 years ago, Colin, 25 years ago you were played in the league. I'm sorry you weren't born later, bro.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, LeBron, who's a billionaire and Michael Jordan, who still makes hundreds of millions a year on shoes, they're not bitter. But you can hear some of the commentators, like, one of the things about the NBA, I do think it's funny to tell old NBA stories because it was just so lively in the 70s and 80s, but it's like one of the things that I don't love is this constant need to look in the rear view mirror for basketball. Like there's like, like again, baseball lore and history is such a huge component to baseball. Right. But what makes baseball great now is you can go on the air like you and I do and talk about the current players, not Mickey Mantle. And that's. That to me is one of the healthiest parts of baseball is I got Bryce Harper, I got Ohtani, I got the Dodgers, I got the Yankees. The players are unbelievable in the NBA. So many of the old guys, all they want to talk about is the old basketball. And four guys on the court couldn't shoot a three. The players now are so much more skilled the ball handling and shooting Today. Go back to the Knicks Pacer series, take out Reggie Miller. Was there one more pure shooter in the entire remaining nine stars?

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

Detlef Strength, obviously. No, I'm kidding. But that's a great point because baseball. Oh, who are the best nine of all time? Make your team and it's like Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Lou Gehri. I'm like what? Modern players are amazing.

[Colin Cowherd]

What are we doing?

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

I don't understand that with baseball you go to basketball and the old. I mean a lot of people. I don't even put Bill Russell in like my top 10. He won a lot. He was great in his era. Well, I mean I don't know what he's doing now. What's Bill Russell in the NBA now? Like not knocking his game well at the time. I mean at the time he made

[Colin Cowherd]

the San Francisco Dawns a college basketball dynasty. I mean he was for his time. That's why I don't think you can compare eras. Yeah, but, but I will say right now I, I think the 30 for 30s on Spike Lee and Reggie Miller. I watched that series. It was a free throw shooting contest. I mean it was, I mean it was 73, 68. Yeah. College basketball scores more than that now.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

And by the way, Cooper Flag is about as big as Bill Russell was. Cooper Flag, it was like a point guard. Now people does everything. Anyways, let's finally. Let's wrap things up. Colin with the NFL. Interesting little story here in that Sean Manion is. He's a. Eagles hired Sean Mannion, the former packers offensive assistant as their OC and he's never called place. Okay. However, Matt LaFleur knows Mannion well and believes he will crush it in Philly because of his work ethic. Adding his only concern will be dealing with a media circus in the city of brotherly love. Now I know you're a big WIP listener and they are panicking about Manion never calling plays. Dealing with A.J. brown maybe broken Jalen hurts just because

[Colin Cowherd]

somebody's never done something. I mean Sean McVay had never been a head coach. That doesn't mean he can't do it. So I don't.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

I mean it's interesting because the Eagles are a contender. They have a first time play caller. The Broncos are a contender. They have a first time play caller. Young guys Sean Manning and Davis Webb Seahawks have a new offensive coordinator. A lot of newness among the top teams. The Rams of course are retaining the greatness.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I, I think listen, the. The Eagles are very offensive coordinator dependent. That's not what the Chiefs and the Rams and the Niners are so like you think oh, you guys are talking about coordinators. The Eagles are coordinator dependent. Shane Steichen fantastic. You know Kellen Moore really good when they don't hate because the head coach and the quarterback are not to me not elite enough to just carry a C plus coordinator J. Mac with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for

[Sonos Advertiser]

stopping by the herd lie news.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, I was thinking this last night about you start looking right now at basketball between college and the pro. You know, one of the great things that's happened to baseball is the international stars are just, I mean they're, they're remarkable play. I mean the Dodgers solved their bullpen, they're starting pitching. I mean, Ohtani wasn't hitting against the Phillies. And you have these international players. It's crazy. You watch Illinois play sports now. Like soccer was always international, soccer was always global. And then basketball, you'd have guys from overseas, but they, you know, you'd get maybe two guys in the league overseas that were really respected Is you look at college basketball now. I read a story a year ago, they were thinking about shutting down a Spanish league. I don't know if that's true, but that American colleges were just rating like Spain for the top players. Well, they're all over here now. The other thing I think that is true is that the American public, it could be restaurants or it can be sports. People know quality. And in the last two years now you could say, well, they've changed the television rating system, but the ratings haven't gone up slightly and the ratings aren't going up massively for everything. Is that the. For years and years I used to say college basketball is tough to watch. Well, I mean the NBA guys don't play any defense. The reason college basketball teams could full court press you is because only two guys could handle the ball. You know, I'm watching Michigan, they got three or four guys, including Mara the center, who are elite passers. You didn't have that 10 years ago. You may have one great passer, one great ball handler. Just the reality of these international players that come in for Illinois, these college teams now NBA teams have five guys that can handle the ball, at least four on the floor. You can't have two non scorers, non shooters in the NBA. You'll get exposed. You can maybe have one if he's a great defender like Draymond Green. College basketball, about 10 years ago, it felt like every team had one guy who could really shoot. I'm watching Michigan and Illinois and some of these college Arizona you got. Arizona's got seven guys who can handle the ball like pros and five guys that can shoot like pros. So the American public is part of the rating surge, is the quality is much better. It doesn't Take people very long to figure out. You know, you'll see these restaurant groups In Chicago, there's two or three major restaurant groups and they've got 15 restaurants and all of them crush. Why? Because those restaurant groups know what the hell they're doing. They're well funded, they hire the best people and they retain them. People aren't loyal to restaurant groups necessarily. They're loyal to good food. And if you make the best hot dog in Chicago, the best steak or the best lasagna, it's going to work. And if you don't, you're, you're out of, you're out of business. So I think a lot of the surge in college basketball ratings is just people are smart. People know when quality is awful. Go back, go back and YouTube the Duke and UConn Butler finals. It is clank city. It is masonry, just bricks for two and a half hours. In Chicago, it's the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Hey guys, it's Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. So Arby's just dropped a deal that honestly feels a little unreal.

[Arby's Advertiser]

Yeah, it's the new Meat in Three box for $7.99. And it's loaded with Arby's favorites in a way that does not feel like a $7.99 situation.

[Sophie Cunningham]

So here's the setup. You choose your sandwich, a classic roast beef crispy chicken or the crispy fish sandwich. Already a very strong start.

[Arby's Advertiser]

But then it keeps going because you also get melty mozzarella sticks, crispy curly fries, and a peach cobbler roll, which is a little sweet treat and so good. You genuinely need to try this.

[Sophie Cunningham]

And there's a small drink in there too. So even though it's called meat and three, you're actually getting five items for just $7.99. That's kind of wild.

[Arby's Advertiser]

Pick the sandwich you want, make it your own and get it your own way.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Available for a limited time at participating locations. While supplies last, prices may vary. Get your meat in three box at an Arby's near you today.

[Colin Cowherd]

Hey Heard Sports and steak a perfect combo. True Nature Meats is offering an incredible deal. They're precooked New York strip, insanely tender, juicy, rich beefy flavor that melts in every bite. Ready in just four minutes. In a skillet, buy 10 New York strip steaks and get 10 free sirloin steaks. 20 restaurant grade steaks for about 7:40 per steak. Incredible value. Only 250 promo codes available. Head to True Nature meats.com and use the promo code Free steak. Hurry. This won't last.

[Verizon/Health Advertiser]

Well, in sports and in life, timing is just about everything. You can have all the right talent, right mindset, even have the right team. But if you don't act at the right moment, opportunity slips away.

[Colin Cowherd]

True on the field.

[Verizon/Health Advertiser]

And it's true when it comes to your health. Two words for you right now. Prostate exam. I did mine a year ago.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Verizon/Health Advertiser]

Are you imagining that finger right now? Relax. Prostate cancer screening starts with a simple finger free blood test. Around one in eight men in the US going to be diagnosed with prostate cancer in their lifetime. But that's no reason to re clench when caught early. At localized or even regional stage, prostate cancer has a 99% five year relative survival rate. So did your tight end. Just relax.

[Colin Cowherd]

Good.

[Verizon/Health Advertiser]

If you're 40 or older, have a prostate, go to relaxit's a blood test.com, relax. It's a blood test.com to find out if a PSA blood test is right for you. The PSA blood test can be the first step in screening. So talk to your doctor to evaluate your risk, determine when to get tested, and discuss screening options and the next steps.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's easy.

[Sonos Advertiser]

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[Colin Cowherd]

right, two truths and a lie. Here we go. I went to college with college football coach Jim McElwain.

[Verizon/Health Advertiser]

I began my broadcasting career doing play by play for the Las Vegas Stars. And I've been a Verizon customer for 15 years.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, I lied.

[Verizon/Health Advertiser]

All three are true.

[Colin Cowherd]

Verizon isn't as expensive as you think.

[Verizon/Health Advertiser]

In fact, if you bring in your ATT or T mobile bill to a Verizon store, they'll give you a better deal. That's right, a better deal on the best network with the most ways to save on plans, streaming and phone deals. So take that AT and T or T mobile bill to your local Verizon store today. Get a better deal and start saving based on root metrics. Best overall Mobile Network Performance US Second Half 2025 all rights reserve must provide Recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

Saturday night is Baseball Night on Fox. This week we got Pete Crow Armstrong and the Cubs versus Jose Ramirez and the Guardians or Ronald Acuna Jr. And the Braves against the Diamondbacks. Baseball Night in America, Saturday at 7 Eastern only on Fox.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I defended Dan Hurley last hour, the youth con coach who is intense and combustible and you know, he barks not at his players but at refs. So there was a moment at the end of the Duke game when he and official Roger Ayres like just move by each other and then his coat is disheveled and you know, he's, and it looks like they, they butt heads and Duke fans are like, ah, that is outrageous. And I'm like, yeah, they just, they just won the game. I don't think he's in a bad mood. He is intense. He gets in your face and, you know, you see it briefly and you're like, wait, what, what? Here's Dan Hurley on what happened with he and the ref.

[Dan Hurley]

He's such an easy guy to work with during the game that I thought he was coming over to chest bump me to celebrate the shot. My experience with him has been, you know, we haven't won every game, I haven't agreed on every call, but his like, so that was in no way was that like me and a ref that I had been at their throat the whole game, that was more like the emotion of the shot. And this is a cool ass ref. He was just coming up to tell me, yo, it was 0.3. Oh, I, I think there's going to be 0.3 or 0.4 on the clock is what he was saying to me. And I was still so hyped from the shot going in that I was like, you know, like anyone would have walked up on me right there.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I mean, I, I, I'm going to say, I agree with what he's saying. When you watch his jacket off to the side of Hurley, he's kind of strutting. He's like, you know, it's that, it's that Vince McMahon look when he's walking in, Hurley's kind of strutting like little peacocking. And then the ref comes over and just says, hey, point three left. I mean, that's what Hurley said. And so I, you know, Dan's intense. Don't you guys have intense friends? Am I the only one? Sometimes, you know, Ann wants to make a point. She gets right in the kitchen. She gets right in my face and that, you know, maybe I'm just used to it. But Hurley's an intense guy. So there's, I mean, Mike Krzyzewski. Mike Szyzewski was, I mean, all over officials for 30 years. And I'm sure a lot of it wasn't pleasant. And it's sort of like when you're Hurley or Coach K or Tom Izzo, you have had these officials for 15 years. You have like, relationships with the officials. Like they know you. You know them, you know, they, they're impartial. But, you know, you joke around, how's the famous. So it's like Major league baseball umpires. You don't think Clayton Kershaw. But Clayton Kershaw looked at the home plate umpire. I guarantee you, Clayton Kershaw was like, he is not giving me stuff on the hands. Like he wants you to work quickly. He gets frustrated. You know, he'll. He, he's got a. He's got a steak dinner reservation at 10 at the Palm. He's going to, he's going to give me a. He's going to give me a big strike zone. I mean, I remember talking to Kurt Schilling once he goes there, I think it was John Herschbeck.

[Dan Hurley]

He.

[Colin Cowherd]

Guys, some guys, they like, they want baseball to be fast. They're going to give you a wide. Now, you can't do it with the ABS system, but there were umpires that were like, you knew, you got a certain strike zone. And there are, there are NFL officials that give you cornerbacks a lot of physicality and you can grab. It's the same in college basketball. What you're trying to do, if you're Hurley is over than Mike Krzyzewski is, you're preaching defense. When I think Mike Krzyzewski, I don't think of brilliant offense. I think of defense. When I think of Dan Hurley, I think of defense. So what Krzyzewski and Dan Hurley and I don't. I don't hear a mic, but I would imagine a lot of what they're complaining about is, hey, man, let us be physical. This is our style. You're intruding in our style. You're letting them be physical. You won't let. What you're trying to do is grow, get a little growth in the physicality allowed over the course of a game. You, you, you. I mean, I never thought Coach K's offense, it didn't blow me away, but I always thought the culture in game coaching, recruiting, physicality. I mean, they played hard. Duke Plays hard. I covered Jerry Tarkanian for years and they had this assistant, Tim Gurgarich. Everybody always talked about the running Rebels. If you really faced Jerry Tarkanian's Rebels, what you realize is how damn hard they played on defense. And they didn't always have. I mean, sometimes, I mean, if you didn't play defense or at least try, it was hard to get on the floor with Tark. And so the refs that bark are just trying to, hey, you're killing us. You're not letting us play real defense here. And so, you know, it's all part of the, you know, Bobby Knight just complained about everything. That was the difference. I will say this, the quality. Brad Underwood, coach of Illinois, was On our show 25, 30 minutes ago, the nil between stealing players from Europe, stealing, taking players from Europe, recruiting players from Europe and keeping guys in college one more year, the quality right now is remarkable.

[Brad Underwood]

So I'm a big fan of nil. I think the game of basketball has never been better. I mean, Yaxo wouldn't be in college if it was, if it wasn't for nil. You can, you can go on down the list. And college basketball itself, the talent is just unreal. The players are so good and that's helped help that. And I'm for that. I think the key is building your roster. I think it's all about role players.

[Colin Cowherd]

So this is really interesting. This is a discussion I have had with different coaches about this. Obviously if you're Oregon and you can get Dante Moore or a great left tackle, you know, nobody's disputing that. But what you're finding with NIL in college football, I mean, obviously you get Caleb Downs and you're from Alabama and your Ohio State, you just go get Caleb Downs like he solves all your back end issues and everybody needs a good quarterback. But what you're finding is with a really smart college basketball and football programs is a lot of the NIL stuff is to just make sure that you're not awful anywhere. It's not necessarily, I mean, Kentucky can go pay for stars. What you have to figure out is, I mean, go look at Michigan now. Yaxel Lindenberg's obviously very, very good player, but Mara was a five point a game guy at ucla. They didn't go buy a big offensive guy. What they bought is. Dusty May told me this off air yesterday. He was like, listen, he was a good passer at ucla. We thought he could be a hub offensively, play in and out, inside out basketball. But we knew he would stabilize any of our defensive liabilities and so they just went and bought a rim protector who could also pass. They didn't bring him in for scoring. So I think the programs that get in trouble with an il, you're just trying to buy points and that's not what it is. What you're trying to buy is leadership, culture and a specific skill plug a hole. And I think the programs that get that, like I said before, the five top spenders in college basketball, nil. None made the Final Four. One, Duke made the Elite Eight. That's it. And last year Texas number one nil spending could not make a 12 team playoff. Phoenix Suns, one of the biggest payrolls in NBA history. 10 games under 500 didn't have the chemistry. So it's, I think it's an all time great final four matchup. I can four teams win it. Brad Underwood says yes, all four can win it.

[Brad Underwood]

All four teams are playing really well and it's a matter of, you know, Michigan has been maybe the best player in the tournament in Yaxel and I think that they have something that maybe the rest of us don't. And Mara who's just an absolute defensive monster at the rim. But if you don't, if you don't play well, they could lose.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think earlier this season. Gonzaga is a really good program and Gonzaga has been a, they are a giant now. They were a giant slayer for Mark Fuse first decade. Gonzaga doesn't get blown out much. Michigan blew their doors off and it was a game in. Michigan's not always a great shooting team and it was one of those games early in the season where Michigan was just hitting jumpers and gun tag is a really good program and they just tore them apart and it's like wow, wow. So I'm going to take Michigan to win it. I think they'll beat Arizona close. I think the Illini are a tough. They've just got a lot of ways to score and I don't think UConn does. So I'm going to take Illinois by about four. I'm going to take same Michigan three or four and we're going to have an all Big Ten final and I would have to take, I would have to take Michigan.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

Yeah, so you go with the favorites throughout. That's smart. It's been a favorite tournament Chalky, which you know normally stinks but the games have been so thrilling. So who do you give a better chance to pull the upset, UConn or Arizona?

[Colin Cowherd]

I think, I think I don't even I don't think Arizona is an underdog.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

I think Michigan Yukon's good.

[Colin Cowherd]

They don't have a second dependable score. But I they're so great in terms of toughness, size, coaching.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

Coaching, I think is one big thing.

[Colin Cowherd]

And I think Michigan, Arizona, there is no underdog. I think those are the two most talented. I don't feel like there's I mean, that's a coin flip game. I just think. I think the defensive presence of Mara is just hard. Like Brad said, just hard to overcome. Nobody else has that. Yeah, our three break.

[Sophie Cunningham]

This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. Okay, Arby's just casually pulled up with a deal that feels a little too good.

[Arby's Advertiser]

They've got this new meat and three box for $7.99, and honestly, it's stacked with Arby's quality favorites in a way that feels kind of ridiculous.

[Sophie Cunningham]

For that price, here's what you're getting inside. You pick one sandwich, the classic roast beef, the crispy chicken sandwich or the crispy fish sandwich.

[Arby's Advertiser]

Then it just keeps going because also comes with melty mozzarella sticks, crispy curly fries, and a peach cobbler roll, which is a little sweet treat and so good.

[Sophie Cunningham]

And you get a small drink to round it all out. So yeah, it's called meat and three, but you're actually getting five items all for only $7.99.

[Arby's Advertiser]

Pick the sandwich you want, make it your own, and get it your way.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Available for a limited time at participating locations. While supplies last, prices may vary. Get your meat in three box at any Arby's near you today.

[Colin Cowherd]

Whether you want to maximize your performance or form healthier habits this year, knowing what your body needs can help put you on the right path. With Quest, you can buy your own lab tests [e-mail] no doctor visit required for purchase. Quest has a huge selection of tests, including the new Elite Health Profile, a panel made for men and women and tracks 85 plus health markers affecting the heart, liver, kidneys, hormones, metabolism and immune system, delivering a ton of insights in one snapshot. For a limited time, save on select lab tests@quest health.com with code herd10. That's herd10 at checkout. Terms apply. Most people think their insurance will cover them if disaster strikes. But here's the truth. Many are wrong. You pay your premiums, you assume you're protected. Then the fine print hits exclusions, loopholes, limits. Suddenly that coverage you counted on isn't really coverage at all. That's why I like my policy advocate. They take your actual policies Home Life Auto Break them down in plain English. They show you what's really covered and what isn't. Cost 27 cents a day. That's it. Less than a cup of coffee. Before you assume you're covered, go to my policy advocate.com let them review your policy. You might be shocked at what you'll find. My policy advocate.com hey, it's Ryan Seacrest

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

Are you really buying a car online on autotrader right now?

[Sophie Cunningham]

Really?

[Colin Cowherd]

At a playground?

[Sophie Cunningham]

Yeah, really. Look at these listings from dealers.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

Wow, your search can really get that specific.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Really?

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

And you just put in your info and boom.

[Colin Cowherd]

Cars in your budget.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Mom needs a second. Honey.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

You can really have it delivered.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Really? Or I can pick it up at the dealership.

[Colin Cowherd]

One sec, sweetie. Mommy's buying a car.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

I think your kid is walking up the side.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Slack, Kyle.

[Guest Analyst (Possibly Rob Parker or another sports commentator)]

Again?

[Sophie Cunningham]

Really? Autotrader? Buy your car online? Really? This is an Iheart podcast. Guaranteed human.