THE HERD - Hour 2 - Jerry Jones still can't get a deal done with Micah Parsons, Joe Thomas

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Episode: "THE HERD - Hour 2 - Jerry Jones still can't get a deal done with Micah Parsons, Joe Thomas"

Release Date: August 6, 2025
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume
Duration of Content: Approximately 2:42 to 18:17 minutes

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1. Introduction

The episode kicks off with Colin Cowherd welcoming listeners to the live broadcast of The Herd on Fox Sports Radio. He introduces the main topic of discussion: the ongoing negotiations between Dallas Cowboys' owner Jerry Jones and star linebacker Micah Parsons. Additionally, the conversation delves into the Cleveland Browns' quarterback situation, featuring insights from Hall of Fame left tackle Joe Thomas.

---

2. Negotiations Between Jerry Jones and Micah Parsons

Colin Cowherd opens the discussion by addressing the buzz surrounding Jerry Jones's negotiations with Micah Parsons. He states:

"We don't even start the conversation. Mike Brown hides from you."
[03:49]

Colin elaborates on the dynamics of the negotiation process, emphasizing that Jerry Jones is proactively engaging in discussions about Micah Parsons's contract a year before its expiration. He underscores the importance of Micah Parsons's performance relative to his contract, questioning whether Parsons has truly outperformed his current deal.

"Micah has been an excellent player, but the ID is wildly outperforming his contract. No, he's not."
[05:30]

Colin compares player contracts to business deals, highlighting the necessity of written agreements in player negotiations, unlike the informal handshake deals in business acquisitions.

---

3. Insights from Joe Thomas

Joe Thomas, a Hall of Fame inductee and one of the greatest left tackles of all time, joins the conversation to provide his perspective on the negotiations and the broader implications for the Dallas Cowboys.

• On the Nature of Player Contracts:

  "In the case of a player contract, you have to have it in writing. All parties. Do we have a contract in writing yet? We're still talking about renegotiating it."
  [06:38]

• Comparison to Business Deals:

  Joe reflects on how player contracts differ significantly from other business transactions, emphasizing the structured nature of the NFL's Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA).

  "Player contracts were a little different with that. You end up signing it early, earlier than you normally would. That's a good sign. They like you."
  [06:55]

Joe provides valuable context on how open negotiations and early discussions often indicate a mutual desire for the continuation of the partnership between a player and the organization.

---

4. Cleveland Browns’ Quarterback Situation

The conversation shifts focus to the Cleveland Browns' quarterback dilemma, particularly spotlighting Shador Sanders and Dylan Gabriel.

Colin Cowherd presents his initial skepticism about Dylan Gabriel's performance and physical attributes, expressing a preference for Shador Sanders based on size and perceived leadership qualities.

"I want my ideal quarterback size. Josh Allen's an outlier. Most guys aren't that big."
[11:14]

Shador Sanders, a key figure in the discussion, offers his perspective on the rumors surrounding the Browns allegedly sabotaging his opportunities.

• Addressing Sabotage Claims:

  "It's bigger than it should be because Shador Sanders is a huge star... He's competing with two other young guys to see who's going to be the one."
  [08:07]

Shador clarifies that the Browns are fostering a competitive environment by giving equal playing time to multiple quarterbacks, aiming to identify the best fit for the starting role.

• Performance Evaluation:

  "Chadour has, I think, in my opinion, outplayed Dillon at this point in training camp because Dylan's had some struggles with accuracy."
  [10:22]

Shador asserts his own capabilities and readiness to take on the starting quarterback position, highlighting his diligence and leadership within the team.

"Shador Sanders, the player, the leader inside that locker room has been awesome."
[12:44]

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5. Predictions and Team Dynamics

Colin Cowherd and Shador Sanders engage in a forward-looking discussion about the potential outcomes for the Browns' quarterback lineup.

• Starting Quarterback Forecast:

  Colin predicts that Joe Flacco will either continue as the starter or be replaced by Shador Sanders, with Dylan Gabriel possibly moving into a backup role.

  "Flacco should do or Dylan. That's my order. Kenny Pickett will be moved."
  [16:59]

• Trade Speculations:

  Shador entertains the possibility of Kenny Pickett being traded, emphasizing the Browns' need to streamline their quarterback options to focus on their top performers.

  "I'm thinking that Chador, when the season comes, is going to be that number two guy... that they want reps with Shador."
  [17:15]

The duo explores the strategic decisions the Browns must make to optimize their quarterback roster, considering both current performances and future potential.

---

6. Closing Remarks

The episode concludes with Colin Cowherd expressing gratitude towards Joe Thomas for his invaluable insights and reinforcing the predictions made regarding the Cleveland Browns' quarterback situation.

"Great stuff from Joe Thomas, the hall of famer, 10 time Pro Bowler... I appreciate your insight, your feet on the ground there."
[18:02]

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Colin Cowherd:

  "Micah has been an excellent player, but the ID is wildly outperforming his contract. No, he's not."
  [05:30]

• Joe Thomas:

  "In the case of a player contract, you have to have it in writing. All parties. Do we have a contract in writing yet? We're still talking about renegotiating it."
  [06:38]

• Shador Sanders:

  "Chador has, I think, in my opinion, outplayed Dillon at this point in training camp because Dylan's had some struggles with accuracy."
  [10:22]

• Colin Cowherd:

  "Flacco should do or Dylan. That's my order. Kenny Pickett will be moved."
  [16:59]

• Joe Thomas:

  "Shador Sanders, the player, the leader inside that locker room has been awesome."
  [12:44]

---

Conclusion

This episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd provides an in-depth analysis of the Dallas Cowboys' negotiation dynamics with Micah Parsons, enriched by expert insights from Hall of Fame left tackle Joe Thomas. Additionally, the Browns' quarterback conundrum is dissected, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of the team's strategic decisions and future prospects. The blend of on-the-ground perspectives and predictive analysis makes this episode a valuable listen for NFL enthusiasts seeking a deeper dive into team dynamics and player negotiations.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Learn more@electric for all.org why are TSA rules so confusing? You got a hoodie on. Take it all. I'm Manny. I'm Noah, this is Devin, and we're best friends and journalists with a new podcast called no Such Thing, where we get to the bottom of questions like that. Why are you screaming? I can't expect what to do now if the rule was the same, go off on me. I deserve it, you know?

[Jason McIntyre]

Lock him up.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen to no Such thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. No Such Thing.

[Lizzie Logan]

Have you ever looked at a piece of abstract art or music or poetry and thought that's just a bunch of pretentious nonsense? That's exactly what two bored Australian soldiers set out to prove during World War II when they tricked the literary world with their intentionally bad poetry, setting off a major scandal. We break down the truth, the lies, and the poetry in between on Hoax, a new podcast hosted by me, Lizzie Logan and me, Dana Schwartz.

[Dana Schwartz]

Every episode, Hoax explores an audacious fraud.

[Lizzie Logan]

Or ruse from history. Listen to Hoax on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Colin Cowherd]

Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio at noon.

[Jason McIntyre]

To 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific.

[Colin Cowherd]

Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. It is a Wednesday. It is our number two, Joe Thomas, one of the all time greats, the hall of Fame inductee in the class of 2023, one of the top four or five, six left tackles of all time, will be joining us. He calls the preseason games for the Cleveland Browns, which this year are fascina. So I was thinking about this. J. Mac is saying, how can you defend Jerry Jones when he's negotiating with Michael Parsons? So the reason I do, like I'm kind of split 50, 50, I don't always side with a player. But Jerry Jones is discussing negotiations. He is openly discussing negotiations. Michael Parsons has a year left in his contract in Cincinnati.

[Jason McIntyre]

They won't even.

[Colin Cowherd]

We don't even start the conversation. Mike Brown hides from you.

[Dana Schwartz]

Oh, so that's the bar. The Cincinnati Bengals of the bar.

[Colin Cowherd]

You have no legal obligation to sign somebody to a contract a year early. We've got a cba, we've got all this stuff figured out there. Now the other one is, well, Micah has outperformed his contract. No, he hasn't. He's a Pro Bowler in the top of the first round. The player selected either before or after him, Rashan Slater, left tackle, more valuable position, arguably also been a Pro Bowler. Now he got paid, but he didn't outperform his contract. You're a top 15 player. You're a pro Bowler. You should be. Especially if you're. And I, and I think left tackles. And I said this yesterday, quarterbacks, the most important position in football, left tackle. Second, if you get a left tackle like Michelle and Slater, you sign him. Edge rushers, quarterback, left tackle, dominant interior D lineman over edge rusher. There aren't any. I mean we can all. Who's the best defensive interior lineman ever? Reggie White, second best. Aaron Donald, third best. Chris Jones is up there. Like there's not many great interior defensive line. There's a lot of great edge rushers. The league's got eight to 10 good ones. There's a kid named Jared Verse for the Rams. That kid, is he not even top five yet? He looks like he could be Lawrence Taylor in a year. So I like Micah, but Jerry is openly discussing the contract a year early and Micah has been an excellent player, but the ID is wildly outperforming his contract. No, he's not. He's. He has been a hit. You view first round picks as hits or misses. He is an absolute hit. Hit. He's clearly Jerry's open to paying him because he's negotiating. If your company comes to you a year before and hey, let's talk about a contract. That's happened to me once in my career. You end up signing it early, earlier than you normally would. That's a good sign. They like you. But, but, you know, they're, they're. I don't think. Here's Jerry Jones this week on the Micah Parsons negotiations.

[Joe Thomas]

I bought the Dallas Cowboys with a handshake. Took about 30 seconds and I gave the number, shook hands. The details we worked out later. As a matter of fact, one of the details involved a lot of money and we had to flip a coin over that. But the fundamental. I'm buying and you're going to sell it to me for that range, that's done. And those are done with eye contact and handshake. In the case of a player contract, you have to have it in writing. All parties. Do we have a contract in writing yet? We're still talking about renegotiating it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. Got a contract. We're a year out. We're talking about it. And player contracts are different. That's why you have a cba. You don't have a CBA on buying a team. You know, even though it's a bigger deal, A lot of the, I don't care if it's Facebook, buying Instagram, a lot of that stuff. I mean, I remember, I can tell you a company I used to work at and a company I currently work at, they had a deal. They probably agreed initially over a table, you know, in a, in a big office with oak table and chairs. And they price sat down and then, then they said, okay, lawyers, you figured out we've agreed to it. And player contracts were a little different with that. Joe Thomas, the all time great left tackle for the Cleveland Browns, one of the best ever calling the Browns preseason games. So my lead story today was there's this bubbling story I'm hearing that I think is fairly ridiculous, that the Browns are sabotaging Shador Sanders by only practicing with the ones one day. And I reminded the audience that Josh Dobbs played with the Vikings without a practice. Baker Mayfield played with Sean McMahon, the Rams with one practice. And Shador has been at minicamps, OTAs training. He'll be fine. But I have to ask you, Joe, you've probably heard these claims too, that some people think the Browns don't want him to succeed. Is it a small story or is it bigger than it should be?

[Shadour Sanders]

Well, it's bigger than it should be because Shador Sanders is a huge star. He was one of the biggest stars in college football for several years, and the biggest story of the draft was him falling all the way to the fifth round and the Browns taking him. And he's got a lot of people that really believe in him. They're huge fans of him from when he was in college, and they want to see him succeed. And what's the best way for him to succeed is if he just was planted as the day one starter. As soon as he walks through the door in Cleveland, he gets all the reps and no matter what happens, you put him out there and he's your starting guy. But that's not what Cleveland drafted him with a mindset of right. They got him in the fifth round as a great value. They've got a bunch of other quarterbacks on the roster and they want to give equal playing time and equal reps to everybody not named Joe Flacco to see who's going to separate themselves. So that as you get later in training camp now, you've got a little bit more of a pecking order of where your quarterbacks are and you give that guy a little bit more rep. So right now it's just a matter of the situation that he's in with Dylan Gabriel and Kenny Pickett and themselves where they're splitting reps between all those guys. And I get it. If you're a Shador Sanders to am, then you want to see him get all the reps and you're mad and you're going to come up with a conspiracy theory like the Browns don't want him to win and they don't want him to be the starting quarterback. But really the reality is that's just the situation. He's competing with two other young guys to see who's going to be the one that comes out of after the first or second preseason game as the clear number two option and then he gets a few more reps.

[Colin Cowherd]

So there was an. It was interesting. I was. I don't know who was doing the interview, but I heard Brock Purdy talking about this in the last 24 hours. He talked about and Brock Purdy six one and Purdy's like about 40% of the time, I don't see where I'm throwing it. That's my first, my first look. I can't see where I'm throwing it. Tua has talked about this. Like, I. There are times I can't see offensive linemen like Joe Thomas or six, seven. Right. And so I was never a Dylan Gabriel believer. I watched him at Oregon and my take his folks, he's. He's small. So I always thought I would have drafted Shador just on size and accuracy. And by the way, Dylan Gabriel played with better teammates at Oregon than Shadour did and was more accurate at Colorado with a battle line and no run game. Right now, from what you've seen. Okay, I'm talking. You've seen it live or you've seen it. Is Dylan ahead of Shador? Do you believe he is?

[Shadour Sanders]

I don't think he is. I think Shedeur is ahead of Dylan right now.

[Colin Cowherd]

Wow.

[Shadour Sanders]

Dylan clearly has some things that he does really well. Obviously his mobility, his ability to get outside the pocket, make plays when he can see, because he doesn't have to worry about throwing from in the pocket. But the challenge of being a short quarterback, especially in the NFL and NFL passing offenses, is that you have to throw to a spot. A lot of times you have to build that trust and that understanding of looking at the structure of the defense, knowing where the ball needs to go, and then having some blind faith that when you throw it to that spot, your guy's going to be there. And that takes a lot more time than if you are being able to see the guy actually coming open. You're able to see the windows. And so far, Chadour has, I think, in my opinion, outplayed Dillon at this point in training camp because Dylan's had some struggles with accuracy. And Chidor, although it's not been great with the procedural side of things, when he's up there under the, under the center and he's trying to make calls and adjustments at the line of scrimmage, he's getting everybody lined up, the snap count when the ball gets snapped. He's been pretty accurate and pretty impressive with some of the big time plays that he's made. And I think that's why a lot of Browns fans are really excited to see him on Friday as he's going to be the starter against the Panthers in their preseason game. Because he's a gamer, right? And so gamers, they rise to that occasion and, and we expect to see some great plays out of him on Friday, some of those wild moments that he's become known for.

[Colin Cowherd]

So that's really interesting, Joe. So, because I'm. I can only go on clips, but when I watch Dylan Gabriel, there are times he gets lost behind the offensive line. I can't see him. I mean, literally. And this is not a Knock on the kid. This was. This was my big question coming into it. I want my ideal quarterback size. Josh Allen's an outlier. Most guys aren't that big. Is like Justin Herbert, 6 5, sturdy. I just think it matters. So listen, I didn't like the speeding tickets. I didn't like legendary. I didn't like that stuff. But by and large, it seems like Shedeur is pretty, pretty likable. I mean, it is. I mean, the vibe, body language. I mean, to me, he's like a nice kid. His judgment can be. The speeding tickets, you know, bother me. Is somebody. I don't even like when guys put their hat on backwards. So speeding tickets really bother me. How is he? What's the vibe around like him? What is he like? Oh, boy, Joe, that is trouble. So what is his vibe at practice?

[Shadour Sanders]

It's been great. And I think anybody that's been his teammate at Colorado or before that and now with the Cleveland Browns will say that he's doing the right things. When he's out there, he's incredible in meetings. He shows up early, he stays late. He's watching the film. He's being diligent with his note taking. And so I think Shador Sanders, the player, the leader inside that locker room has been awesome. To your point, like, he's gained some attention. One, he's a huge star. So anything you do off the field, he's got to start to understand he's going to have extra eyeballs on him, extra scrutiny. And so some of the speeding tickets and those other things, like all that does is just bring bad attention to you and you don't need any of those distractions as you're trying to win this starting quarterback job. But as far as when he's been in the building, the guys are really loving him here in Cleveland.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I said this about Aaron Rodgers. I said there are certain things that are true. I said when you're an older quarterback and you've got a Super bowl and you've got your money, like Aaron Rodgers, there are things you do you're not willing to do that you were at 31 and that is get hit a lot. And if you don't trust your old line, Aaron's not going to sit back there and take one of the teeth like it's not going to happen. So with the Jets, a lot of short passes. He didn't. I don't blame him. Eli Manning didn't want to get hit at the end. Brady was practicing falling like, I get it. The Steve, this is why I've never bought Pittsburgh for Aaron. They have struggled for six years with the O line. PFF has the Jets O line better than Pittsburgh's last year and going into this year and Aaron didn't trust the Jets O line. So I want you to talk about that. Older quarterbacks, and you played with a lot of them. Did you notice that the younger quarterback will sit in there or maybe he can escape. But older quarterbacks do see the world differently after they've been in this league eight to 10 years.

[Shadour Sanders]

Yeah, young quarterbacks, they don't know any better.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right. Their.

[Shadour Sanders]

Their youth is their ignorance, and it serves them well because they're willing to stand in there and they're willing to take those hits right in the chops. And at first, it might not hurt too much because you see the success that it brings when you are able to hang on just another half a second longer and you're delivering the football down the field and you're throwing the touchdown pass. But as you become an older player, you know your body just can't handle those hits. And so you do try to get the ball out quicker. You try to speed up that process in your mind. But the challenge is, how do I speed up that process without speeding up my footwork too far, where now I'm out of rhythm, I'm. I'm taking footwork and I'm stepping up into these throws. And the receivers are not out of their breaks yet. And so you want to make sure that your timing of your drop and the routes are still in combination. But you also do need to, at certain times, be able to hang in, in there and wait for that receiver to get to that next window so you can deliver the football. And you got to just accept, hey, I'm going to get hit on this one, but the team needs me right here. And I think that remains to be seen a little bit with Aaron Rodgers, because he's never been a guy that loved being hit. I mean, he's never been a huge guy, but he's always had great feet. He's always been able to extend the play, get out of the pocket with his athleticism, and we really didn't see that with the Jets. And so far, coming out of the Steelers training camp, there's been some conversation about him not really showing great mobility, not showing an ability to escape the pocket, escape the rush. And that comes into question then about how much is he willing to be able to just stand in there and extend the play if he can't do it with his feet? Anymore and he's not willing to take the hits in the pocket.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right, we're going to circle back to Cleveland. My prediction was Flacco's the starter. I said this before camp. They're going to move off Picket at some point to get a draft pick next year, maybe a sixth or seventh rounder. And the young guys will both be on the roster as backups. That's my take. And they're going to get both. The young guys are going to get reps in preseason. Now Dylan Gabriel's banged up, so Shador could take the lead with a good one Friday. So I'm going, Flacco should do or Dylan. That's my order. And Pickett will be moved. Somebody will lose a quarterback. He's a capable backup. And we still have desean Watson, but that's, you know, he's not going to play. What if you had to guess an order with three or four quarterbacks in Cleveland? What is it?

[Shadour Sanders]

I think you're onto something right there. I'm not sure that Kenny Pickett, I'm going to take it to Vegas that he's getting traded, but it certainly makes sense, right? He's a guy that's got experience, he's a brand or on draft choice. Clearly this league relies on great quarterback play. And if you don't work out in one spot, if you still got that talent, you're going to at least get one or two more chances. So I could see him being traded and I'm definitely thinking that Chador, when the season comes, is going to be that number two guy, because depending on how the season shakes out, there's going to be a point in the middle, possibly where they're saying, all right, Flacco's done a good job, but we're not scoring enough points and we want to get an opportunity to look at one of these younger guys. And I think at that point you're going to say, hey, we want to have reps with Shador. We want to see him. Can he be that playmaker, can he be that gamer that he was in college that we saw in preseason? Maybe because they got to figure out going into next season with their two first round draft choices if that's going to be a quarterback or do we have the quarterback spot figured out and we got that solved and we can use that on weapons around him. So that's a very important question that's outstanding still, that they need to answer at some point this season.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, great stuff from Joe Thomas, the hall of famer, 10 time pro bowler, a top five or six left tackle I've ever seen play. It is great seeing you. We appreciate the insight, your feet on the ground there and I appreciate it, bud.

[Shadour Sanders]

Yeah, thanks for having me on Colin.

[Colin Cowherd]

You bet. That's really interesting. So you know, we asked him, you've seen them both play and he said he likes Shador over Dylan Gabriel. And I've said before the draft, Dylan looks small and the clips, and I watch every Browns clip, every Browns clip I get, there are times I lose Dylan, I can't see him. I'm not blaming the kid, but he, Dylan also played at Oregon. Oregon's got NFL guys everywhere, so that, that's an advantage. Right. You can throw a lot of either way balls in Oregon and their touchdowns. Colorado had a battle line, no run game. And Shedeur had to throw on the run a lot. He had to throw a beat fast a lot. And so I, I think over time that size matters. I think what happens is a guy like, a guy like Russell Wilson comes into the league and has success at 5 11, 6 foot and everybody's like, you know, yeah, a little guy. And everybody gets, oh, let's draft Johnny Manziel. And the best little quarterback I saw when I was a kid growing up was Fran Tarkenton. Played at Georgia and the Vikings. Most quarterbacks were like 6, 4. They were big guys. They're big guys. And, and, and, and Johnny Mandel didn't work and Russell did. But I mean Tua has come out and said a lot of times I can't see the Brock purdy interviews like 40% of the time I'm throwing, I'm just trusting a receiver. That, that's the reality of being. And Brock is six foot, six foot one. So I, I think Shedeur is taller. I've also seen multiple pieces of video when Shadour has his helmet off. This is kind of weird, but when he has his helmet off or he's in street clothes and I've seen him standing around people and he's a big kid. I'm, I'm six one and a half and, and I've seen him standing next to coaches that I know are six feet and he's clearly bigger than that. He's bigger than me, he's taller than me and I'm, and so it, I think that stuff matters. I think over the course of reps and practice and you get a clear line of sight, I think it matters. So Joe Thomas said Flacco and Shador, that's what I think. Kenny Pickett's not the you want to. If you're drafting two quarterbacks, you want to see if they can play. What's the point? DeSean's not going to play. Flacco is. We know what Kenny Pickett is. You don't know. You don't know what Dylan Gabriel is or should or in a real game. I want to see it. I drafted him. I want to see it. One more herd the herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app search heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

[Dana Schwartz]

Hey, this is Jason McIntyre. Join me every weekday morning on my podcast Straight fire with Jason McIntyre. This isn't your typical sports pod, pushing the same tired narratives down your throat every day. Straight Fire gives you honest opinions on all the biggest sports headlines, accurate stats to help you win big at the sports book, and all the best guesses. Do yourself a favor and listen to Straight fire with Jason McEntire on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Colin Cowherd]

Philip Rivers stops by, Joe Thomas says Joe Flacco and Shadour Sanders the best Cleveland has. Browns play Friday against Carolina and because of multiple injuries and they don't need to see Joe Flacco play, Shador will get the nod. I can't wait to watch it Friday against Carolina. J. Mac with the news no, no, no. Heard on the news. This is the Herd line news.

[Dana Schwartz]

Start this hour with a small team from the Midwest known as the Kansas City Chiefs. They've had a pretty decent run during this near dynastic stretch here. Colin Patrick Mahomes told USA Today there's stuff we've got to get better at, especially myself. There's plays on the football field that I didn't make last year, that I've made in previous years. At the end of the day, I'm Going to do whatever it takes to win. Whether that's passing for a lot of yards, not passing for a lot of yards. But I think if I play better, that's going to make it better for the team. Well said by a great leader. Obviously his receivers stunk last year and they should be much, much improved this year. I'm going to eat some crow when this team makes the playoffs, aren't I?

[Colin Cowherd]

No, it's. The division's tough. You know, it's funny. They're. They're. You know, I said this earlier. The minute Brady retired, everybody was just ready to say Mahomes is the best a. Brady played him in the super bowl, blew him out. Brady played him in the AFC playoff game in Arrowhead. Beat him. But, you know, I. It shouldn't be lost on anybody that Mahomes has been blown out twice in Super Bowls. Brady loses every Superbowl he lost David Tyree catch, Mario Manningham catch the Philly Special. One of the great things about Brady, he just doesn't get blown out ever in those Super Bowls. He wins or he loses. Close. And there's a variation, there's a variable with Mahomes. And just before we, you know, and I'm not just saying this because Brady's at Fox, but I know we're ready with Mahomes success to just anoint him king. Just remember, Brady, on the way out, had the last word. Way out of his prime. Way, way out of his prime.

[Dana Schwartz]

Is this your way of saying Mahomes is coming off a really bad year where he was not a top four quarterback in the league?

[Colin Cowherd]

Pretty true.

[Dana Schwartz]

I mean, it's pretty true. I, I know certain Chiefs fans at this network are losing their mind hearing that, but I'm sorry, it's just the facts. Let's move on.

[Colin Cowherd]

Brady didn't have one of the great offensive coaches in league history.

[Dana Schwartz]

Well, Josh McDaniels.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right.

[Dana Schwartz]

He was phenomenal as a head coach. In debt.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, no.

[Dana Schwartz]

He was terrible. And fired almost instantly. Okay, let's move on to the Rams. Colin Devonte. Adams was on the Pivot podcast and talked about the most interesting first round pick from this year's draft. Jacksonville's Travis Hunter.

[Shadour Sanders]

I'm not even concerned so much if he can do it over the course of a game or season. It's more like how long is his career. Career gonna be if. If he's playing that many snaps?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, you gotta put up. I want to see him on offense. You know, in the 70s, maybe you put him at corner first. But today I need 12 targets, 10 catches, and I'd, I'd, I would, I would have him returning kicks. I would have him doing as much as I could to guarantee if he gets four kickoffs, he gets 12 target. I want the ball in his, his hands. You can be a great corner. So is Sauce Gardner and Patrick Surtan before Sean Payton. Doesn't mean you're a playoff team. You can, you can win games much more easily on the offensive side than the defensive side. I can't wait to watch him. You know, this is really interesting.

[Dana Schwartz]

There's a huge disconnect between fans and players on this Travis Hunter thing, because I remember I hosted and had a player in here and he was like, no way can Travis Hunter play both ways. Now you got Devonte Adams saying, yeah, that's not going to work. Other players have come out and said, yeah, this is not a good idea. Meanwhile, fans are like, he could do it. Why not? Like, they just don't understand, Colin, that this is going to be literally mission impossible for Travis Hunter to tackle and defend. And then quick turnaround and now you're running routes and catching. Like you said, what, 10, 10 balls on 12 targets. It's. You can't do it and be successful for a full season or career.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'll tell you what, it's easier to do that then pitch at an all star level and be an all star power hitter like Shohei Ohtani. That is there, people, which is easier. The football part, I'd rather say, hey, how about this? Can you throw at a major league level and get major league baseball hitters out, or can you make a tackle on a running back?

[Dana Schwartz]

What is with that look? A tackle on a running back, Colin.

[Colin Cowherd]

Have you seen this, guys? What Shohei Ohtani is doing doesn't even make sense. That he's literally an all star pitcher, all star base stealer, all star power hitter, all star average hitter. You're saying that Travis Hunter couldn't return punts, be a receiver, and occasionally you'd put him in on pass coverage.

[Dana Schwartz]

Wait, he hasn't done it yet in the pros. Let's see if he can. I don't think he could do it. I think it's way more taxing on your body than Ohtani, where you bat three or four times a game. Right? That's what's so hard about that. The pitching is every, what, three or four days? Khaled? I think if Travis Hunter pulled it off, that's way tougher than what Ohtani is doing at a high level. Like he could do it and get cooked and be a terrible cornerback. But to do it at a high level, I think Travis Hunter.

[Colin Cowherd]

Baseball is more skilled than football pitching. It's an art form.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Hitting at the major league level, you have to be in the batting cage for. For a decade before you ever get into a major league cage. Antonio Gates made the hall of Fame. He didn't play college football.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, he was just a tight end. He wasn't playing both ways. You know what else is an art form? Tackling Derrick Henry.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, go look that. Go look up that art form. There's one Derek Henry.

[Dana Schwartz]

Oh, and there's one Christian McCaffrey. And there's one Saquon Barkley. And there's one James Cook. Like, come on, tackling these guys. Colin, I think you're way. We need to get somebody from Jacksonville on the show next week if possible. All right, next up, Colin, final story. The Colts just announced that Anthony Richardson will get the first crack at the starting job. He will start Indy's first preseason game this weekend. Daniel Jones, AKA Danny Dimes, is the backup. And buried here in the notes, third string. Are you ready for it? Riley Leonard, your favorite former Duke Notre Dame quarterback, breathing down the neck of Vanilla Vic, AKA Daniel Dimes.

[Colin Cowherd]

What are they saying about Riley Leonard's camp?

[Dana Schwartz]

They're not saying anything because he's a non factor. It's all about Anthony Richardson versus Daniel Jones. If anything on Riley Leonard, they're still talking about that drive that he had.

[Colin Cowherd]

To open the championship. Remember a couple years ago when people made fun of me on Joe Milton? Remember that? That was a big joke. He was in New England, the backup. And I said, right? I said, you guys watch. The kid's got a canon. Great kid can work. If you heard the Joe Milton stories. Very interesting. Go look up Joe Milton.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, hold on. I mean, I mean, maybe I'm late to the game. Joe Milton, NFL Stats. He played in one game was 22 or 29.

[Colin Cowherd]

Excuse me? I couldn't hear you. 22 of 29. What is he, Joe Montana?

[Dana Schwartz]

Is it like a week 18 game, bro?

[Colin Cowherd]

What? What?

[Dana Schwartz]

I don't understand. What am I missing?

[Colin Cowherd]

2 of 29. I don't care if it's week 30.

[Dana Schwartz]

He's throwing against ups drivers in December in a meaningless game that the Patriots.

[Colin Cowherd]

Go look at where Joe Milton is currently at, by the way.

[Dana Schwartz]

Joe Milton is currently on the Dallas Cowboys.

[Colin Cowherd]

Interesting one. NFL start. 111 passer rating. You just go ahead and laugh at my right.

[Dana Schwartz]

I'm not laughing. I'm just. I know they took advantage of Jerry Jones who loves to overpay for guys like the wide receiver they got from Carolina. I forget his name. I got a third round pick.

[Colin Cowherd]

Bring him on down.

[Dana Schwartz]

Now they got Joe.

[Colin Cowherd]

I will, I will die on this hill. Joe Milton deserves a shot to be the guy in this league on some team, could be a terrible team. He deserves a shot. There is something there with that kid.

[Dana Schwartz]

Are you his agent? And I like, don't know.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'm just saying. I'm not saying. I'm just saying. I watch 60 quarterbacks play a year in this league annually. 60? Joe Milton's had one NFL start. His passer rating was 111.

[Dana Schwartz]

Okay, Joe Milton or Zach Wilson, who would you start that bit?

[Colin Cowherd]

Joe Milton. Yes. All I got was a bunch of eye roll on the interweb.

[Dana Schwartz]

Okay, Joe Milton or Hendon Hooker?

[Colin Cowherd]

Joe Milton. What?

[Dana Schwartz]

You just like it that he's like six' six and chiseled.

[Colin Cowherd]

I like that. I like that. He's a great athlete. Coachable with a rocket arm. That's what I like. Called traits. J. Mack with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the herd lie news. It was in New England. He played in a preseason game. I'm like, I don't know. I mean, that looks like a guy that could play in this league. I got a lot of pushback. Uncle Colin does not forget those slights on quarterbacks. Coming up next, a quarterback that I'd like to see work. I don't think he's going to work, but he would have a much greater chance to have been great. But he keeps getting an. He keeps getting nothing but the wrong landing spot. And I'll tell you who that quarterback is. It's not Joe Milton. Next, be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

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[Colin Cowherd]

Picture this.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Legend in a bottle today. Cheers to that.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Dana Schwartz]

Alex Palo's legendary season rolls on as he eyes a historic three peat and looks to move one step closer to the single season wins record in Portland. Sunday, 3 Eastern, only on Fox.

[Colin Cowherd]

So you know the, the from time to time if you're a sportscaster, somebody will come up and say, oh, my son or my daughter want to be a sportscaster. Any advice? And my advice is always like, go to YouTube. I didn't have YouTube. The distribution models that kids have now are amazing. I mean, I used to have to send out a little cassette tape to country western stations so I could maybe do a weekend shift. Merle Haggard songs next on 96.5 the Frog. I mean, that's the way the world was. Now just go on Instagram, go on YouTube. There's no excuse. Somebody will find you. And that's the way I kind of feel with quarterback like, and I'll give you an example. Justin Fields is a really nice kid and I think he does have talent, but he doesn't have like Andrew Luck, Jaden Daniels talent where he can overcome the wrong coach or the wrong system. Andrew Luck goes 11 and 5 as a rookie. Roster was awful. Jaden Daniels last year goes 12 and 5. Roster was mostly bad. Those are the first two guys since John Elway, in my opinion, that can just overcome anything right out of the gate in the NFL. First year did not have things going necessarily all their way. And I would admit that Justin Fields has not had the best set of circumstances. Three teams, multiple defensive coaches. I think he'd be better if he got Sean McVay or Andy Reid. But here's the reason why I don't necessarily buy him is that if he was truly special, McVay would call him up to back up Stafford because they're going to go draft a quarterback. Or Andy Reid would call him or Shanahan would want him. Is that the reality where you will always find a way? I use Josh Allen all the time. Josh Allen, you know, high school, high school in the middle of nowhere in California. He didn't get any college offers. He goes to Wyoming. He gets blown out. Every time they face teams like Oregon and Iowa. I watch those blown out, blown out high school. Nobody saw him play zero star college. Almost nobody saw him play. Wyoming was bad and everybody in the league was flying to Wyoming. Smart offensive coaches will identify you eventually. That's why Baker Mayfield. I may have had issues with Baker Mayfield, but I always said He's a top 20 quarterback talent on the planet. Eventually McVeigh's like, get out here. Eventually. Liam Cohen is. I like that guy. Sam Darnold. Kyle Shanahan's like, get me. I don't care what happened in Carolina. The jets offensive coach, get me him. Then Kevin o', Connell, offensive coach, get me Sam Darnold. And they wanted to resign him. Defensive coaches don't have the ability to figure out O lines and quarterbacks, they just don't. I mean, I've said it. I think Pete Carroll likes Geno Smith much more than the offensive coaches in the league doing Geno's fine. But one of the reasons that I question Justin Fields. We got enough Ohio State stuff. We got enough NFL tape. Where are the offensive coaches going? Just get them in the building over here. It'll work. I mean, Darnold's career was a mess. I mean, Carolina and the jets was. I'm seeing ghosts. Shanahan, reportedly, McVeigh liked him. Kevin O', Connell, like, the smart offensive guys are like, I like that guy. You go look at Patrick Mahomes. When Patrick Mahomes had a losing college record. Losing record. He was why? I saw him play, like once in college. He was wild. But who liked him? Andy Reid, John Gruden, Sean Payton. It was the offensive coaches that were like, get me that college kid with a losing record in an average college conference. So it's not that I don't think Justin Fields has talent. He does. Good kid has. I don't think he sees the field very well. I've said this about Zach Wilson. Some guys just don't see the field. Some guys like Mahomes sees the field. Mahomes can see something and let go of the ball within a half second. It's Jaden Daniels has that, like, cognitively, athletically, it's weird how good it is. And I just don't see that with Justin or Zach Wilson. But one of the reasons, like Samuel L. Jackson bounced around Hollywood forever, then he becomes a superstar. Eventually you'll have a Quentin Tarantino. You will find somebody that goes, that guy is good. If you never make it in Hollywood, it wasn't meant to be. Somebody will find you. Eventually, somebody's going to find you. And my question with Justin Fields, one of these offensive coaches, he keeps going to defensive coach, jets defensive coach Aaron Glenn. Defensive coach, defensive coach. They don't have the feel of offensive coaches. So it's just. It's not like I don't like him. It's just, is there people lined up like, you can say whatever you want about Kirk Cousins, Shanahan likes him. Kevin o' Connell likes him. You know, like, like, there are. Raheem Morris was Sean McVay's best friend. Raheem Morris goes to Atlanta. They go get and make a bid and get Kirk Cousins. Some of that's McVeigh in. McVeigh probably likes him. So whether you like him or not, a lot of offensive coaches like Kirk Cousins. They do. Speaking of great quarterbacks, Josh Allen, Hard Knocks, Buffalo Bills, finally, like an interesting team in Hard Knocks. They don't have any controversy. So I don't know how interesting it is, but here was a little sample of Josh Allen on Hard Knocks. Being mentioned for MVP means your team is doing really well, probably in the hunt for the playoffs, and you're doing your job. It doesn't change my life to have that accolade or to have more of those accolades. The only thing that I'm worried about is doing everything I can to bring a Lombardi Trophy here. I contend that the highest rated super bowl of all time would be the Buffalo Bills and the Detroit Lions. So kind of, in a way, rooting for that, the long standing losing Detroit Lions and the Bills, who have actually had a lot of great teams that can't win, I find right now the easiest team in the league to root for is the Buffalo Bills. Again, if they had two Super Bowls with Jim Kelly, I wouldn't feel this way. But it's like, my wife used to have to work. She was in corporate America, and she always said the nicest people she'd ever met were in Buffalo. She's like, it's an underrated place to live. It's the nicest people in the world. You don't have a heart or a soul. If you're not rooting for Buffalo to win a Super bowl, you have to, like, here's the thing. Detroit is easy to root against. They've been incompetent, right? It's like, it's not like they've gotten bad breaks. No, Buffalo has been really competent. Sean McDermott, Jim Kelly, I mean, great players. Marv Levy have had good coaches, they've had great quarterbacks, they've had good GMs, they've had great teams. They just ran into the Cowboy dynasty. They ran into great teams. So it's, it's, It's. If you look at all of sports in North America, there are two teams. And I don't know a lot about hockey, but it does feel like the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's about time they want a Stanley cup, you know, like like they've been, They've had enough quality. That's a big. You can't get a ticket to a game in Toronto. It's about time they won. And it's ironic that Toronto, it's a little drive over to Buffalo, but I feel that the Bills Lions had the highest scoring game in the league last year at 90 points. If I'm rooting for a Super bowl and I don't really, I'm rooting for good games. Lions who I think take a step back and Buffalo Bills. And I, and I said this, I was seen as sort of a Brady homer. I am kind of fatigued with the LeBron James story. It's nothing against LeBron, but like I'm a little fatigued with it. I mean, I know he's a big story, but I'm. I got a little fatigue. Like Brady to Tampa to me was fascinating. I was a new story. I was kind of over Grumpy Belichick. You know, Tom had to watch what he said. You know, Edelman's getting over. It's an efficient offense. It's not that much fun to watch. Like Buffalo is a great watch and they're a great watch because of one guy. It's not the schemes of McDermott. They're a great, They're a great team to watch with Buffalo and. But I do think since 2018, the resume cannot be denied. Josh Allen has more touchdowns than even Patrick Mahomes. So I think you have to be careful about reducing people down. Like I've said this before about Charles Barkley. Barkley's one of the rare NBA players I've ever seen. He was great in transition. He was great in the low block and he was great shooting the jumper like Michael Jordan. Not much of a three point shooter. Michael was great in transition and could be really good, but he wasn't really a low block performer. Michael was a mid range assassin, the greatest mid range player of all time. And he could finish at the rim. But he didn't put him on the low block a lot when it was a kind of a center league. Barkley could go low with that, you know, sizable. But he was great in transition. He could shoot threes and he won a title. Now Barkley didn't have the best practice habits, but Charles is an all timer. Charles is an all timer. Dan Marino is an all timer. Prettiest thrower of the football. Not every great guy. If Derek Jeter goes to the Kansas City Royals, he probably does not win a World Series. So, you know, the landing Thing I will say this to Buffalo's credit and I think this, they deserve credit for this. It's not a wealthy town, although all the owners are wealthy. They've gone out to build a new stadium. And part of the stadium build, you're seeing it in hard knocks is to cut down the wind. And now Josh Allen's got a very strong arm, but that is really an underrated move by the Buffalo Bills. They're like, listen, we have the first or best quarterback on the planet and he's got about six more years of prime football. Try to have him throwing in blizzards less frequently. It's not a little thing. They went to the science and they're like, listen, when you have Josh Allen, the only way he can be neutralized, it's not Steve Spagnola, it's not Bill Belichick. He owned Belichick. Go look at Josh Allen against Belichick. He owned him. The only thing that neutralizes the all time great quarterbacks is bad weather. That's it. And so Buffalo, to their credit, said, we're going to, we're going to. We got to make it easier. We don't want to go into a game against an inferior quarterback on a team with a good pass rush. And Josh can remember a few years, how many years ago was it when there was a nor' easter and was it in Buffalo or Foxborough? It was Mac Jones against Josh Allen. I don't even know where the game was. It was, it may have been in Foxborough. It was horrible weather and it was like a good game between, I think it was Mac Jones and Josh Allen. I swear my memory hasn't, hasn't faded. And it was like bad weather hurts the superstar quarterback. And Buffalo's like, yeah, we're going to fix the weather thing. Credit to them, so. And credit to Josh Allen, who I do think is more talented than Patrick Mahomes. But Mahomes inherited Andy Reid and that's just a difference. That's the difference. It's Bo, Nick, Sean Payton, that's the difference.

[Dana Schwartz]

So J. Mac, can I push back on something?

[Colin Cowherd]

Sure.

[Dana Schwartz]

So you said the best super bowl would be Bill's Lions or the highest rated, the most interesting. What if I said Bill's Niners, you get two coasts. You get Kyle Shanahan looking to exercise demons. You've got the dead last pick in the draft, Brock Purdy against Josh Allen. I think Niners Bills would be an unbelievable contrasting styles in quarterbacks and coaches. Offensive coach versus defensive coach in the Super Bowl.

[Colin Cowherd]

The niners are the Yankees of the West Coast. They have a huge following, so the Niners will always get a good TV rating. But Brock Purdy is not dynamic.

[Dana Schwartz]

Oh, stop it.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think the Lions are a little bit like the Cubs. Remember the Cubs? Indians, World Series, Lovable losers. Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

I mean, that's the Lions to me. Okay, have you heard about this?

[Jason McIntyre]

Last year, Degree changed the formula for their Cool Rush deodorant, and their fans rebelled and wanted the old scent back.

[Colin Cowherd]

And Degree listens. That doesn't happen often. They admitted they effed up and they're.

[Jason McIntyre]

Bringing back the original Cool Rush scent.

[Colin Cowherd]

They're bringing it back and it's exactly how you remember it.

[Jason McIntyre]

Cool, crisp and fresh. There's a reason the number one men's antiperspirant.

[Colin Cowherd]

And it's back in Walmart, Target and.

[Jason McIntyre]

Other stores now for under four bucks.

[Colin Cowherd]

So try and see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart or Target.

[Jason McIntyre]

To try the OG Degree Cool Rush for yourself.

[Colin Cowherd]

Hi, it's Colin. I've been around long enough to know.

[Jason McIntyre]

Quality when I see it. Or in this case, when I taste it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Tito's Handmade vodka.

[Jason McIntyre]

Good stuff. No flash, no gimmick. Smooth, clean tasting. Made the right way. Tito's. Made in Austin, Texas. Real attention to detail. I like to keep it simple. Tito's soda, one lime, lot of ice. Refreshing, easy. Summer, winter, spring. Totally versatile. Always works.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen, baseball season's here.

[Jason McIntyre]

The perfect time to kick back with some Tito's. It's what I pour. You should, too. Distilled and bottled by 5th Generation Inc. Austin, Texas. 40% alcohol by volume saver. Responsibly. American public university where service members like you can access high quality, affordable education built for your lifestyle. With online programs that fit around deployments, training and unpredictable schedules, APU makes it possible to earn your degree no matter where duty takes you. Their preferred military rate keeps tuition at just $250 per credit hour for undergraduate and master's tuition. And with 24. 7 mental health support, plus career coaching and other services, APU is committed to your success during and after your service. Learn more at Apu Apus Edumilitary. That's Apu Apus Edu Military. Imagine never buying gas again. EVs are as easy to charge as your phone and perfect for everyday life. Drive daily with confidence everywhere you go. Most Americans drive 40 miles a day. Most EVs are equipped with 200 to 400 miles of range. They've got fewer parts, fewer repairs and fewer headaches. With hundreds of new and used EV models available today. There's an EV to fit every lifestyle and every budget. I love my electric vehicle. It's easy. No more gas stations. The way forward is electric. Learn more@electric for all.org this is an iHeart podcast.