THE HERD - Hour 2 - Joel Klatt Reacts to the Firing of James Franklin

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode: THE HERD - Hour 2 - Joel Klatt Reacts to the Firing of James Franklin
Air Date: October 15, 2025
Main Theme:
Hour 2 centers on the seismic coaching change at Penn State—James Franklin's firing—and the ensuing coaching carousel, with expert analysis from Joel Klatt. The conversation expands to critical college football storylines: playoff urgency, major matchups, the evolution of powerhouse programs, and NFL parallels in coaching. The hosts bring their signature mix of sharp takes, playful banter, and media-savvy insight.

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Main Discussion Topics & Insights

1. Postseason Baseball Urgency vs. Analytics

• Colin opens hour two reflecting on the way postseason baseball diverges from regular season analytics, using recent Dodgers games as examples.
• Key Point: Managers must adapt in the postseason—sometimes traditional analytics must yield to gut decisions and confidence in "alpha" players.
• Memorable Quote:

  "The term I've always used is man analytics. It's analytics, postseason, man analytics. I'll look at the analytics, but sometimes I want my alpha. I'm just going to go with him."
  —Colin Cowherd [06:40]

2. Penn State Fires James Franklin: Next Steps

• Klatt joins to dissect the implications and what’s next for Penn State.
• Candidates:
  • Pat Craft (AD) likely to “take a big swing,” making calls to top-tier coaches—starting with Nick Saban (“just to make sure”), then Dan Lanning, Marcus Freeman.
  • Doubtful Freeman would leave Notre Dame, but the money and ambition at Penn State make them a player.
  • Is Penn State really a “better job” than Notre Dame? “I don't think it is, personally, but that's a call I'd make.”
    —Joel Klatt [07:57]
• Comparison: Georgia’s jump from Mark Richt to Kirby Smart as a model for “blowing off the ceiling” at a stuck program.
• Memorable Quote:

  “Maybe that's the moment we're in for Penn State right now, where the next guy is going to lift the ceiling of this program and they can actually go out there and win some of these top 25, top 10 games that James Franklin has fallen short in.”
  —Joel Klatt [09:13]

3. USC’s Big Win, Notre Dame Matchup & Michigan’s Questions

• USC’s win over Michigan is framed as a turning point—“the most important win since Pete Carroll left,” because USC dominated both lines of scrimmage.
• Notre Dame Game: Not as good a matchup for USC; ND has greater balance—Jeremiah Love and C.J. Carr give them versatility, and USC’s pass defense is vulnerable.
• Fun riff on South Bend weather and “God being in Notre Dame’s corner.”
• Memorable Quote:

  “It's almost like the Catholic school has a direct line to God... Hey, what do you want to do with USC? Give us some rain and some cool weather.”
  —Colin Cowherd [12:12]

4. Evaluating Oregon, the Rise of Indiana, and National Title Contenders

• Oregon's loss to Indiana:
  • Oregon was physically beaten at the line. Indiana now seen as a legitimate national title contender—“seismic moment in college football.”
  • Kurt Signetti (Indiana coach) praised for process orientation and adaptability.
• Memorable Insights:

  “This was a real seismic type of performance because it transitioned Indiana from a good team...to okay, wow, this is a national championship caliber team.”
  —Joel Klatt [13:41]

5. Ohio State’s Defense: The New Standard

• Ohio State’s defense: Fast, physical, versatile, loaded with hybrid players (Caleb Downs, Arvell Reese, Sonny Stiles).
• Matt Patricia praised for defensive coordination; opponents can’t decipher fronts.
• Stat of the Day: “Ohio State’s defense looks too equipped for the average college offense.”
  —Nick Wright [15:26]
• Memorable Quote:

  “They've just been allowed to play patient, conservative offense and no game is close.”
  —Joel Klatt [17:51]

6. Michigan's New Era: Right Succession Plan?

• After Harbaugh:
  • Debate whether promoting from within (Sherrone Moore) is the right move vs. a national search. Succession plans often work better when a program is riding high (see: Ohio State, Oklahoma).
• Michigan must return to “first principles”—physicality, running, stopping the run.
• Memorable Quote:

  “When your team is having top end success, a succession plan has actually been the blueprint that has worked best.”
  —Joel Klatt [18:55]

7. NFL Coaching Carousel and Lessons

• Discussion of Titans firing Vrabel, implications for NFL franchises.
  • Bad franchises “let their best people walk out the building.”
• Guarantee coaches (“Harbaugh, Payton, Vrabel”) are rare.
• Memorable Quote:

  “You do not ever let Mike Vrabel out of your building. That's why New England was the easiest prediction I made this year. I said, they'll double their win total. It's bad organizations. There's nobody to blame.”
  —Colin Cowherd [31:23]

8. Philadelphia Eagles, Expectations, and Coaching Pressure

• OC Kevin Petullo’s job security, sky-high pressure in Philly:
• Comparison to collegiate environments (Ohio State, Kentucky basketball).
• Jalen Hurts scrutinized as a pocket passer—success in Philly is system-dependent.
• Memorable Insight:

  “The more Jalen [Hurts] throws, the less effective the offense is... Everything else in Philly feeds off that.”
  —Colin Cowherd [36:14]

9. NFL MVP Race Update

• Mahomes leads, Baker Mayfield and Josh Allen close behind, with Drake May fourth.
• Hosts joke about Sam Darnold and caution against betting MVP favorites too early.
• Quote:

  “We're at the 1/3 of the way mark. Like, you don't call a horse race 1/3 of the way through.”
  —Joel Klatt [38:11]

10. Buffalo Bills: Defensive Decline & McDermott/Allen Window

• Buffalo’s window may be closing:
  • Historically, championship coach/QB combos win together within five years.
  • Bills’ defense hasn’t evolved; offense has, but defensive investments haven’t paid off.
• Quote:

  “Every single coach quarterback combo that has ever won at least one Super Bowl together won their first within five years… For McDermott and Allen... this is year eight.”
  —Nick Wright [44:17]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The term I've always used is man analytics. It's analytics, postseason, man analytics.”
  —Colin Cowherd [06:40]

• “Maybe that's the moment we're in for Penn State right now, where the next guy is going to lift the ceiling of this program.”
  —Joel Klatt [09:13]

• “It's almost like the Catholic school has a direct line to God…give us some rain and some cool weather.”
  —Colin Cowherd [12:12]

• “This was a real seismic type of performance… okay, wow, this is a national championship caliber team.”
  —Joel Klatt [13:41]

• “You do not ever let Mike Vrabel out of your building… It's bad organizations. There's nobody to blame.”
  —Colin Cowherd [31:23]

• “Every single coach quarterback combo that has ever won at least one Super Bowl together won their first within five years… For McDermott and Allen... this is year eight.”
  —Nick Wright [44:17]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Penn State's AD Coaching Search & Marcus Freeman Rumors
  [07:28] – [09:32]
• USC’s Win & Notre Dame Matchup
  [09:32] – [12:24]
• Oregon/Indiana Recap & Indiana as Contender
  [12:24] – [14:48]
• Ohio State Defensive Dominance
  [14:48] – [17:54]
• Michigan’s Coach Succession Debate
  [17:54] – [21:21]
• NFL Coaching Carousel (Vrabel, McCarthy, Belichick)
  [30:34] – [34:41]
• Eagles: Coordinator Pressure & Jalen Hurts Critique
  [34:41] – [37:37]
• NFL MVP Picture
  [37:44] – [38:29]
• Bills Window Closing & McDermott/Allen Discussion
  [43:52] – [44:24]

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Tone & Banter

• Playful jabs and camaraderie: Nick Wright teases Joel Klatt (“shots fired”) [15:22], and quips fly regarding who should be next Jets coach, Eagles drama, and even the impact of “God” on Notre Dame’s weather.
• Signature tone: Analytical, direct, and sometimes laced with sarcasm or self-awareness, epitomized by Colin’s dry assessment of underachieving franchises and Nick’s quick-witted commentary.

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For listeners or readers: This hour covers the state of college football’s major programs, leadership transitions at Penn State and Michigan, the rebirth of Indiana and USC, NFL coaching dynamics, and the fragility of team “windows” in both college and pro football. The hosts thread the urgency and stakes of postseason play through all conversations, tying together on- and off-field decision-making at the highest levels of the sport.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Nick Wright]

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Obviously, it's messaging. Messaging is great, but it can go off the rails when I speak in a group chat. I want it to be easy without any issues. WhatsApp can help. You can message privately with everyone and you can edit messages, create polls, do pinned messages and send invites plus photos and videos to look better. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. If you're gonna go to the moon and need a specialized airless wheel for the next gen lunar rover, who'd you turn to? Well, the powers that be turned to Michelin and for good reason. Not only are they the tire people, they're also the innovation people. You wouldn't believe everything they're into. Healthcare, energy. Yeah, aerospace. This rover wheel has to deal with temperature swings, radiation and rough terrain on the moon. So going to the tire innovation guys makes sense, you know. Learn [e-mail] y michelinnovation Michelin Motion for Life the next time you fly, upgrade your comfort to Emirates Premium Economy. Sink into soft leather seats with raised leg rests and adjustable headrests. Elevate your dinner plans with delicious regional dining, all served with complimentary premium drinks. Enjoy endless entertainment with up to 6,500 channels, including live sports. There's no other premium economy like it. Fly Emirates. Fly better. Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Now, let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. All right, here we go. It's our number two on a Wednesday. Great show so far. Live in Chicago, it's the Herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us on any platform part of your day. Joel Clatton, about five minutes. I was saying one of the things I like about postseason baseball, there's so much urgency. Analytics are important during the regular season, but you get into the playoffs and there's so much urgency that you may bring a starter who pitched brilliantly two days ago and bring him out of the pen. You're just doing things. I mean, like watch the Dodgers starting pitching. There's no reason to pull a guy out in the sixth inning. I mean, last night they let Yoshi go the whole game. You don't do that in the regular season. That's just not the way it works. So analytics to some degree, in the NBA playoffs, it becomes a situational basketball league. Two pointers are fine. It's not all three pointers. And in baseball, everything changes. You're just pitching differently. But I thought they should have kept Blake Snell in the game in game one, and instead they went to the bullpen because I want to take a series lead before I go to a bullpen that I don't entirely trust. Last night, Yamamoto was good. He wasn't as good as Snell. He was great, but not that great. You already have a 10 series lead and you got a four run cushion. I would have gone to the pen, so it's okay. But even the announcers, Ron Darling and the guys, they were, they didn't know quite what they were going to do. And everybody's a brilliant, everybody's a genius about baseball after the fact. But in real time, nobody kind of knew what Dave Roberts was going to do. And that's the fun of baseball. And here were the announcers talking about it in the eighth. And now if you're Dave Roberts, you have to start thinking seriously about allowing Yamamoto to finish this game. I don't think he's going to finish. I just because of the big delay in the eighth inning, because the offense of the Dodgers, he's going to give them this inning, and I think Banda will probably finish it in the ninth. But let's see. I mean, we're watching baseball from the 70s and 80s. Now with this kind of starting pitching by the Dodgers. Yeah, I mean that. And here's the thing. The reason I would have kept Snell in Game 1, he'd retired 17 straight brewers. Nobody'd hit the ball out of the infield since the third. It was Sandy Koufax just let him go. And he's also a very good pitcher post 100 pitches. And again, Yamamoto Yoshi was great last night. He wasn't quite as dominant. I've got a four on cushion. I've got a 10 series lead. I've stolen home field advantage. So I would have flipped it. Dave Roberts, who we love, talked about going back to Yamamoto in the ninth. I see a real confidence. I think that's what it is. I think that, you know, last year certainly there was a transition, and even in the post season, I didn't give him a whole lot of leash. But I think this year he's got true confidence. For me, that third time through at pitch 90, he feels that he's the best option. And so I think for me, that just gives me that confidence. I like my managers to be adaptable and pragmatic. And that's the thing with Dave Roberts. He said after game one, he goes, it was 50, 50 again. The brewers couldn't get bat on ball. They did not hit a ball out of the infield since the third inning. I'd have just gone with Snell, but that's. It's. There is. It's not yields. You're up to none to nothing. There's no right answer. That's the fun of baseball. But you do manage it differently now than you do in the regular season. And I've said the term I've always used is man analytics. It's analytics, postseasons, man analytics. I'll look at the analytics, but sometimes I want my alpha. I'm just going to go with him. I'm just going to trust him. I don't care what the numbers say. And with that, we bring in Joel Klatt. He'll be calling the Washington at Michigan games. That is a really, really good game. A lot of urgency for both teams. So let's start with this. There's rumors, and they, they seem pretty substantial, that Penn State's like, okay, we know we're spending 700 million on an update to Beaver Stadium. We know we just wrote a $45 million check to James Franklin, and we know we'd have to write a hundred million dollar check for Marcus Freeman and his staff. But I hear Those rumors, and that's probably the guy I would go after. Do you buy him? What are your thoughts about that?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, I think that Pat Craft, the athletic director at Penn State, is going to take a big swing. I don't think that anybody is off of his list, to be quite honest with you. And if I was Pat Craft, I would start with the biggest swing possible. I know this sounds crazy, but I think the first call I would make is Nick Saban, and just like, just make sure that. That that's not going to happen. And then you start going down the list of the other coaches around the country. I think Dan Lanning would get a call. I think Marcus Freeman would get a call. Now, would Freeman leave Notre Dame? I'm not sure. He just went to the national championship, you know, I'm sure he feels like he can build something special. Is, Is Penn State a better job than Notre Dame? I don't think it is, personally, but that's a call that I would make if I was Pat Kraft, because, again, this, this is a good job. I don't know if it is a great job in college football, but in this cycle, it's probably going to be the best job available. Colin, even if Florida were to come open, if they make a move off of Billy Napier, even if Florida State, you know, went south and Mike Norvell was let go of Florida State, whatever happens at Wisconsin, you know, even if Brian Kelly were to, you know, somehow take a nosedive with LSU beginning, like, let's say, this week, I'm not sure that any of those jobs. Maybe LSU is.

[Nick Wright]

But.

[Colin Cowherd]

But Penn State is set up perfectly. You brought up the investment into the stadium, $700 million into the stadium. They're willing to pay the money to James Franklin to buy him out. They've got support and they've got an athletic director that's willing to win. I think Kurt Signetti should probably get a call. I would be swinging for the fences if I was Pat Kraft, because here's the thing, is that this reminds me a lot. Maybe not quite to the tier of Georgia, but Mark Rich, that Georgia seemed to have a ceiling on that program and they felt like they could go higher. They bring in Kirby Smart, and they did go higher. Maybe that's the moment that we're in for Penn State right now, where the next guy is going to lift the ceiling of this program and they can actually go out there and win some of these top 25, top 10 games that James Franklin has fallen short in.

[Nick Wright]

So USC, speaking of Notre Dame Goes to South Bend. I don't think it's a great spot for them. I think the quarterback play at Notre Dame is so efficient they'll pick on USC's corners the weakness of their roster. I thought they bullied Michigan. I do not think they'll be able to do this to Notre Dame. I thought it was a very impi. I said, I thought it was bigger than people realized. Beating Michigan and beating them the way they did that game was not as close as the score. And I'm not sure Michigan's got the right coach. We'll talk about that in five minutes. But I don't think USC necessarily matches up well here.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's. It's not as good of a matchup as they had against Michigan. But I think. Let me go back to your point about the substance or the substantial, you know, moment for USC last week and beating Michigan the way that they did. I started to think to myself, yeah, they've had some big wins since Pete Carroll left, but I can't remember one that was maybe as important because of the way that it was played. This signals to everybody like, hey, maybe we can play at the top end of the Big Ten. They took the team in this conference that not only won the national championship a year ago in Michigan, but also lays their entire identity in being a physical team and winning the line of scrimmage. And USC won both lines of scrimmage. That's why you saw Lincoln Riley so emotional and joyful after the game, is because he knew what that win meant and the fashion in which it happened. So that's an important win. Now, the matchup against Notre Dame probably isn't quite as good. And the reason is, and you touched on it briefly, is the balance that Notre Dame has on offense. Yeah, because Michigan really can't. Well, I shouldn't say can't. They. They don't throw the ball well in just a drop back scenario. So they have to run the football and then get their quarterback out on the outside in order to start to throw the ball and be efficient doing so. But that's not the case with Notre Dame. So Notre Dame can run it with Jeremiah Love. He's one of the best backs in the country. And then C.J. carr has been outstanding. He's been one of the most efficient quarterbacks in the country. And so they have that balance that would scare you a little bit. And yes, there is an opportunity to throw the ball against usc. Illinois proved that a couple of weeks ago when Illinois ended up beating the Trojans and So this matchup maybe isn't quite as good, but I sure feel a lot different about this game as a Trojan fan. If I was a Trojan fan today than I did last week at this point because of the way that they were able to beat Michigan. Now you can at least lean on the fact that, hey, maybe we can run the football and it's not just going to be a myava show on the road. And what could be rainy conditions, by the way, 50 with some rain. It's like. It's almost like. It's almost like the Catholic school has a direct line to God.

[Nick Wright]

Right?

[Colin Cowherd]

It's like, hey, what do you want to do with usc? It's like, give us some rain and some cool weather. So it could be an interesting one. But I certainly feel like Notre Dame is set up in this game and balanced enough on offense to take advantage.

[Nick Wright]

Of, well, your top 10 as Ohio State, Indiana, Miami, Texas A and M Bama, Texas Tech, Oregon, Georgia, Notre Dame, Ole Miss. I don't have any quabbles with it. Let's talk Oregon. What happened against Indiana? I mean, I'll say this about Indiana is last year they were a great story. They weren't a great team. I had my reservations. I did say I thought it would be close, but they really dominated the game. Do you buy. Let's talk Oregon. What happened? And do you buy Indiana as a national title contender? Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

So the first part of that is, is I think that Oregon has got to look themselves in the mirror a little bit because physically they got beat up at the line of scrimmage and they couldn't protect their quarterback. That was a huge issue and protect in particular in the second half. And they didn't really do anything defensively to disrupt the timing of Fernando Mendoza, you know, so Indiana was able to stay balanced and run the football if they needed to. And then Mendoza was really good and not pressured much in the pocket. So the line of scrimmage for Oregon, they've got to take a big look in the mirror and actually evaluate what are we right now and what are we going to be moving forward. I do think that they're talented enough and that's a good enough coaching staff where they can learn from this, grow from this and become better. Remember, Ohio State lost at Oregon last year. They lost against Michigan and became something great afterwards. That's certainly still on the table for Oregon. Now, the second part of your question, I think this win, maybe even more so than USC over Michigan in the way that that happened in the Coliseum this was a real seismic type of performance because it transitioned Indiana from a good team that we didn't know if they could handle the big boys to okay, wow, this is a national championship caliber team. I really believe that they were great on the offensive line. They were terrific on the defensive line. Their quarterback is as good as any out there and their wide receivers make a ton of plays. I talked with Kurt Signetti on my show earlier this week. He is a process oriented guy. He's one of the best coaches in America and they really attack the weaknesses of their opponent as well as anybody. Their coordinators have been terrific. This is again a seismic moment in college football and in the Big Ten Conference because Indiana just proved to everybody around the country that they're not just a cute story and they're not just a legit team. That's a team that could beat anybody in America and potentially win a national championship.

[Nick Wright]

You know, it's last year, I thought Ohio State, it took Chip Kelly a while and new coordinators do. He was a pro coordinator. He comes in to his buddy Ryan Day and it took him a while and then Matt Patricia, Chip leaves, Matt Patricia comes in and you know, the arch Manning struggling. He struggled a lot. Maybe it wasn't Matt Patricia, but I'm watching that Ohio State defense and I'm just telling you, turn the volume down on your tv. Don't listen to the announcers. Don'. To confirmation bias. Well, no, you guys are good and everything, but my point is they look shot.

[Colin Cowherd]

Shots fired in the middle of the question. My goodness, I'm.

[Nick Wright]

They look faster than college offenses can handle. Ohio State's defense looks too equipped for the average college offense. That's what it looks like to me.

[Colin Cowherd]

I, I am going to try to disregard that, that clear personal shot that was, that was taken and try to address the question as, as it was asked from the substance. Colin, I will tell you this, that this defense, yes, they're fast, yes, they're physical. But it's, it's the fact that they can run so much from a schematic perspective and do it well. Their players are really smart and I think the thing that makes them so difficult is a lot of their players are what I would call hybrid players. So they're versatile. Caleb Downs, probably the most versatile defensive back in all of college football. They can line them up anywhere. It makes it incredibly difficult to get an indicator of what they're in. Arvell Reese has been maybe the story in college football on the defensive side for how, how quickly he's Rising up draft boards. He could be one of, if not the best defender in college football. Their linebacker. Oh, by the way, they also have Sonny stiles who's a five star, six five, 245, 240 pound linebacker that can run. All you have to do is look at some of these, these opposing offenses, what they've done against other opponents and then what they don't do against Ohio State. I think this weekend I'm studying Demond Williams, getting ready for the Michigan Washington game, which I think is going to be a fantastic game. By the way, Demond Williams in the Washington offense is one of the best offenses in all of college football. Demon Williams is like Kyler Murray Light. Yeah, he had just short of I think a million yards against Rutgers last Friday night.

[Nick Wright]

Right.

[Colin Cowherd]

And then you look at what he did against Ohio State and it was basically nothing.

[Nick Wright]

Nothing.

[Colin Cowherd]

And it's because of the scheme and it's because of the length, the versatile nature of their players and the speed with which they play. Matt Patricia has done an incredible job. Every play it's a different defensive front and a different coverage and that combination changes throughout the game and it makes it hard on the play caller and the quarterback to decipher what that defense is in. And by the way, they've got some of the better players in the country. Yeah, that defense has, has allowed me to sit there, watch Ohio State and be pretty comfortable in saying that they have separated themselves at the top tier of college football. That is pretty clearly the best team in college football. And think about this, Colin. They haven't even really gone into third gear. They've just been allowed to play patient, conservative offense and no game is close.

[Nick Wright]

Yeah, the Washington game was a real eye opener because Washington's offense, sometimes it took out a while to get going against Maryland, but Washington can score at all levels. Tight end, running back, quarterback, receiver. They got pro, they got Sunday guys. So I want to, I want to talk about Michigan. I have, I've said this for years. It can become, you know, it sounds a little elitist when I say don't hire the coordinator, don't hire the popular guy on staff. Do a global search and get the best coach. So Harbaugh leaves and they bring in the popular guy on the staff. Capable guy, nice guy, but I'm like, it's Michigan. They say, I'm not sure I want Michigan to be your first job. Harbaugh had coached in college, he coached in the NFL and it took Harbaugh a long time at Michigan to get going and so my take was I'm, I know that's the popular choice. I love Marsh and I love Underwood, but I mean, I'm watching Michigan get pushed around and I don't remember Harbaugh teams getting pushed around like that. Did Michigan do they got the right guy? Well.

[Colin Cowherd]

Here'S the pushback I would give you is that when your team is having top end success, a succession plan has actually been the blueprint that has worked best. Think of Ohio State, from Urban Meyer to Ryan Day, from Oklahoma, Bob Stoops to Lincoln Riley. You know, it's, you can have the global search. Yeah, I understand that sentiment, but the problem is, is that that locker room felt like they didn't need a change. And you don't want to disrupt the culture of something that is working. It's different when you've got to fire James Franklin. And then there is a clear mantra of like we're going to build something different or go to a different when a coach is underperforming. But when you're performing at the highest level. The succession plan is actually what has worked in college football. And the fear, even though you don't want to operate out of fear, but the fear would have been if you were Ward Manuel, the athletic director, that if you would have brought someone in from the outside, even if it was a home run. Right. You know, and you win the press conference, do you retain the roster? And that's a question. Do you retain the culture? That's a question. Because we've also seen teams that are really close, that are good cultures, that are good football teams but want to go to greatness and they make the wrong hire Bill Callahan at Nebraska, possibly Luke Fickle at Wisconsin. And so you change that culture of something that you've been for a long time and your players believe in and it can go south. And I think that was the predicament that Michigan was in when Jim Harbaugh left. Sharon Moore is at a really important time in his tenure at Michigan. That that loss was ground shaking in a lot of ways in that building because of the way that it happened, as big as it was for USC is probably even worse for Michigan because of the way that it happened. They have to get back to first principles. What made you great in 2021 that started the run toward a national championship. Physicality, stopping the run run in the football. See, if you do three things at Michigan really well, you can probably win. Stop the run run the ball, cover kicks. That's what Jim Harbaugh did. Now it started to grow after J.J. mcCarthy became a veteran quarterback. And they get some guys like Blake Corum and things like that are in their offense. But those foundational things, that's what Sharon has to go back to. I would be pretty surprised if they didn't run the football 45, 50 times this week to get back to first principles. Michigan identity.

[Nick Wright]

Joel Clatt, college football. The voice at Fox. Good to see anybody.

[Colin Cowherd]

I. I mean, I didn't even take a shot at, you know, weekly radio hosts. And why you wouldn't want to listen to those guys?

[Nick Wright]

Well, I.

[Colin Cowherd]

Man, I felt like I took one right between the eyes. You know, you stay in Chicago or via remote and it's just like, bam.

[Nick Wright]

Listen, this show is hard. I mean, kidding yourselves, like, it's like. It's like going to Columbus in October.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's all, you got to be ready. You show up here, you better be ready.

[Nick Wright]

Good seeing you. You too, buddy. So have you made your picks, J. Mac? I already got my. I sent my picks in today. My NFL picks. I send in seven every week, and I get down to five. Where are you at?

[Joel Klatt]

You're. You're at seven?

[Nick Wright]

No, I start with seven. I send them seven. The guys, I tell them seven games I like. And then Friday, as the staff knows, I pair them down to five.

[Joel Klatt]

Well, unlike you, I like to see a good injury report before I fire on teams like, I don't know, the Niners.

[Nick Wright]

I mean, who.

[Joel Klatt]

Who's telling who's going to show up for the Niners? I did fire on to that Cleveland, Miami game.

[Nick Wright]

You know, that's the wise guy. The Sharps. The Sharps, like Cleveland.

[Joel Klatt]

Well, are you willing to lay after tax dollars, right, that you hard earned on Dylan Gabriel? Yeah, that.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's.

[Joel Klatt]

That ain't easy. And then the Lions game, I'm on that one as well. That would be Lions, Buccaneers.

[Nick Wright]

Hey, are you getting to your big Luke? When are you getting your big Lucas story?

[Joel Klatt]

You're really fired up about that, huh? Why do you say big? Don't you mean your skinny Luka story?

[Nick Wright]

Everybody, J. Mac was so fired up because Luca dropped 25 last night against G League Johnny in some preseason game. Oh, my God. You're going to be incorrigible this season.

[Joel Klatt]

Oh, boy. Hey, by the way, I know LeBron's hurt and we're all very worried, but Luka looked pretty good running that offense last night. Colin, I know it's only preseason, but Luca, J.J. redick, that's a.

[Nick Wright]

That's a winning combo right there against the El Segundo. Knights? Who do they play? Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

[Colin Cowherd]

Hi, this is Jay.

[Nick Wright]

I'm the producer of the Paulie and Tony Fusco Show. Usually in these promos they ask you.

[Colin Cowherd]

To listen to the show.

[Nick Wright]

I'm here to ask you please don't.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen to the show.

[Nick Wright]

The hosts are two absolute morons who.

[Colin Cowherd]

Have the dumbest takes on sports imaginable. Don't listen to this show so it can get canceled.

[Nick Wright]

Whoa whoa. What the hell are you doing in our studio?

[Joel Klatt]

Get him Paulie. Ignore that fool.

[Nick Wright]

Listen to the Paulie and Tony Fusco show on the iHeartRadio app or wherever.

[Joel Klatt]

You get your podcast.

[Nick Wright]

He's still moving Weighted vests are everywhere right now and it's not just a fad. The science is clear. Carrying extra weight boosts calorie burn, ramps up natural human growth hormone and testosterone in the body, and builds real world strength. Not all vests though are built the same and low quality gear is getting guys hurt. That's why I'm all for Wolf Tacticals True Fit Weighted vest. Go to wolftacticalusa.com Take your training and physique to the next level. The code is HERD15 for 15% off your order. That's H E R D15 at checkout. Only at wolftacticalusa.com Are you trading S&P 500 or NASDAQ 100 ETFs? Instead, you can trade futures from CME Group on the equity indices you already know and love. Take advantage of the benefits to futures such as controlling larger portions with less capital thanks to lower margin requirements. You typically only need to put down 5 to 10% of the notional value to get started trading. In addition, take advantage of market moving events as they happen with the ability to trade both night and day. Futures offer deep 24 hour liquidity while the ETF market slows down overnight. Find the appropriate contract for your budget. Choose from the larger E, Mini or smaller micro sized contracts to tailor your position. Explore S&P 500 and NASDAQ 100 [e-mail] EquityFutures Derivatives are not suitable for all investors and involve the risk of losing more than the amount originally deposited and any profit you might have made. This is not a recommendation or offer to buy, sell or retain any specific investment or service. You know that feeling when you come home late from work and the puppy dog eyes just pierce right through your soul or when you're packing for a road trip, you put the suitcase out and your dog, your cat refuses to leave the suitcase. Yeah, we've all been there, right? Pet parent guilt is real. And you know what? It's completely normal. That's exactly why Hill's pet nutrition exists. They understand that being a pet parent means being human. With all of our imperfections and daily jugg hacks. Hill science led nutrition helps you give more love than humanly possible. Whether it's those long work days or trying to balance attention between, you know, multiple pets. Hill's pet nutrition gets it. They have created science based nutrition support your pet's lifelong health. You can feel confident even when life gets hectic. And it does for all of us because hey, you're only human. There's Hills Science does more. If you're ready to let go of the guilt, find the right [e-mail] iheart hillspet.com iheart I'm going to assume that everybody messages their friends. And I'm also going to assume that people run into issues when messaging, especially during group chats. It's really important any of my digital messaging is clear, no mistakes. It's also important when I send messages, they send quickly and I get responses quickly. WhatsApp can help with all of that. First, you can message privately with everybody in a group, even if you're using totally different phones, sent a message too fast and instantly regretted it. No problem. Just edit it. And when the chat goes a little too intense, you can switch to a group video call and actually talk it out. Photos and videos come through clear and messages get delivered without gaps or delays. Plus, WhatsApp has many great features like polls and pin messages and even events. Invites with RSVP is cool, so planning stuff doesn't turn into a mess. It just makes a lot of sense. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Bucky's gonna have the best team in baseball. Mariners are gonna get to the World Series. Potentially.

[Joel Klatt]

Yeah. What is it? What do you think this West Coast World Series would mean for the east coast fans? Are they gonna stay up late?

[Nick Wright]

Well, years ago, years ago, there was a Subway Series. Mets met the Yankees in the World Series. And I remember that everybody in the, you know, the northeast media kind of toned after the rest of the country predicted big numbers. Nobody watched. It was at the time like a very lowly rated World Series. It felt very New York. I think the Dodgers are a big enough brand. It'll feel like, you know what it'll Feel like big versus small, David versus Goliath. That's what it'll feel like. Remember years ago when Michael Jordan faced the Utah Jazz? So everybody was saying, oh, Utah is a small market. Nobody would watch. But it felt like David and Goliath. You had the legendary dynasty against Stockton and Malone and small market Utah, almost collegiate feeling. And it got huge numbers. Jordan flu game, but they. The Jordan flu game. It was Jordan and it. The truth of the matter was the story was captivating and Utah was really, really good. But I think the Mariners are really, really good without it. They don't have the Dodgers dominant starting pitching, but they're really good.

[Joel Klatt]

Yeah, Mariners are good. That Jordan Jazz stuff that was in like 97. There was no iPhone, there was no streaming. I mean, honestly, if NFL Thursday night stinks, you know, second quarter, I'm firing up Netflix and seeing what's on or Amazon Prime. Like I'm checking out movies. You couldn't do that back then. So I know those Jordan numbers. I'm not really buying that. I will say the Mariners are an interesting story because of the Griffey Jr. Angle. Everybody loves Griffey Jr.

[Nick Wright]

Right.

[Joel Klatt]

Everybody has that upper deck card. There's a history with that team that they never really made it through. And I do think you're right. There will be a gravitational pull toward them against the evil Empire. West coast edition.

[Nick Wright]

The problem is the Dodger. Milwaukee is certainly the Mariners equal this year. You know, it's a mid payroll team with no real holes. Milwaukee's totally outclassed. I mean, game one, they could not get bat on ball. They couldn't get the ball to the infield and so, and like net last night the Dodgers had, I mean, they stranded runners left and right. Dodgers should have blown them out. So that it does. You're starting to see like you can watch the Dodgers and it's like there's just no breaks in their batting order. Yeah, they're, they're, they're. I mean, it's, it is hard to go 1, 2, 3 against the Dodgers. It's maybe in the first couple innings when a starter. Peralta's got his best stuff. It's throwing the hardest maybe, but I mean, by the time you get to the second time around the order, I mean, Teoscar Hernandez is hitting these moonshots. There's, I mean, Max Muncie is, I mean, he has been so good in the postseason for the Dodgers. Freddie Freeman, Mookie Betts, they don't even need their bullpen.

[Joel Klatt]

You're not even.

[Nick Wright]

The key is they haven't needed their bullpen.

[Joel Klatt]

And you're not mentioning Ohtani, by the way. I know. Ohtani's the man. And the Yankees stink. You, you know, put judges postseason numbers next to Ohtani. We can have a conversation if you want. I mean, I don't know.

[Nick Wright]

J. Mack with the news. No, no, no. Turn on the news.

[Joel Klatt]

This is the Herdline news. Let's start with the team.

[Nick Wright]

Let's.

[Joel Klatt]

This is the most we've talked. Tennessee Titans. Colin all season. I'm fired up. Love to talk about the Mike Vrabel revenge game. The Patriots come to town to face the wobbly Titans. They fired their coach. I, I, I just saw online there will be no video tribute for Mike Vrabel returning to Tennessee. Video tributes are stupid. The Tennessee interim coach is a guy by the name of Mike McCoy. Chargers fans certainly remember him. Colin, I see, I see you rolling your eyes. Listen, it's a plug and play. If you want to take the points in the Titans, you got to plug your nose because that's a stinky, stinky team.

[Nick Wright]

Andy Reid's been fired. Vrabel's been fired. Belichick's been fired. Like, you know, Pete Carroll. The reality in this league is, is when you let guys like Mike Vrabel out of the building, what are you doing? Like, ask yourself this. When, when Robert Sala left the jets building, you let the best coach leave the building. Well, you know, we're some of these owners. Yep. You do not ever let Mike Vrabel out of your building. That's why New England was the easiest prediction I made this year. I said they'll double their win total. It's bad organizations. There's nobody to blame. All these fans want to yell, game is rigged. No. Your owner stinks. Your GM stinks. Your coach stinks. Bad teams have bad ownership and bad front offices. If you let Mike Vrabel go, bad things happen to your organization. Shame on you.

[Joel Klatt]

I totally agree. Now, Khan, let's spin it forward. You know, we like to see around corners. Who's the next Harbaugh? Who's the next Vrabel? Is there someone out there who's had success and is on the market and is a slam dunk? This guy's going to get your team to the postseason in a year or two. Is there somebody out there you don't get?

[Nick Wright]

There's, you get one of those every four years. I mean, there's just, there's just, there's no guarantee. Like, Sean Payton was a Guarantee?

[Joel Klatt]

Yes.

[Nick Wright]

Vrabel was a guarantee. Harbaugh was a guarantee.

[Joel Klatt]

Those are all in like the last four years, though. That's three of them. There's gotta be. We just gotta think.

[Nick Wright]

If you're asking me who would make sure the jets were watchable? Mike McCarthy.

[Joel Klatt]

Thank you. I like that. I'm just telling you I'm gonna start pounding the drum for him because I do think he's a winning coach. By the way, he left Dallas. How's Dallas playing this year? I know they're, they're plucky, but they're not 11 wins. They're not like a contender like they used to be.

[Nick Wright]

Remember McCarthy left Dallas on his turn.

[Joel Klatt]

Exactly. He knew that the bottom was falling out of that organization. Is there anyone else? Do we need to expand our mind a little? Is there anyone else on the market we need to come up with?

[Nick Wright]

Let me think real quick. No, I mean, no guarantees.

[Joel Klatt]

Well, I was gonna say a certain guy who's coaching in Chapel Hill right now, but I think the blue one's off that rose. Huh?

[Nick Wright]

Bill's brand has taken such a weird turn and a beating and like, you.

[Joel Klatt]

Know, a buy low stock. Bill Belichick is trading for pennies on the dollar right now. He knows a little about winning in the football.

[Nick Wright]

Need a coach. Who's going to need a coach next year?

[Joel Klatt]

Well, probably the Giants where Bill coached previously. I think Dable's getting run, but maybe the jets, maybe the Miami Dolphins.

[Nick Wright]

Dolphins for sure. Dolphins for sure.

[Joel Klatt]

Tennessee Titans job is already open. Who else has been under? I don't think Harbaugh is going to.

[Nick Wright]

Get Mike McCarthy down in Miami. You could do a lot worse. That's probably who I'd hire. You could do. It's an offensive league. Dak had great years with him. You could do a lot worse than Mike McCarthy.

[Joel Klatt]

How about Arizona with Gannon? Is he going to get run?

[Nick Wright]

I think he's a good coach.

[Joel Klatt]

Oh, interesting.

[Nick Wright]

You love firing guys. I like.

[Joel Klatt]

What are you talking about? You're the one firing people left and right. All right, let's move on to the Philadelphia Eagles. Colin, the offense has been pretty terrible and everybody wants answers. Nick Sirianni gave his offensive corner, Kevin Petullo the dreaded vote of confidence. Petullo talked about his relationship with the players.

[Nick Wright]

I think the, the comment, you know, Lane had and what, what's great about the players is the communication with all of us is constant. Right. Whether it's during game, whether it's during the week, even on days off. You know, things like that. So that's been really, really good and productive for us. And I think it was very productive. We had a good meeting yesterday as an offense of unit and so I think we're in a good spot working forward.

[Joel Klatt]

See that line coming down? It was two and a half yesterday. Now one and a half. Colin, I got to say, this guy's in a no win spot. Okay. You take over as OC for a team that won the Super Bowl.

[Nick Wright]

Yeah.

[Joel Klatt]

I mean, the only way to keep your job is what, repeat. Like he's. It feels a little. I know they're not playing great, but it. Does it not feel like sky is falling at 4 and 2 for the Eagles? Like, can we take a deep breath in Philly or is that not allowed?

[Nick Wright]

Well, Philadelphia's best case, worst case, best job, worst job scenario. And that the pressure, it's like Kentucky basketball. It's. It's literally not fair to be a coach. I mean, Calipari kept getting to sweet sixteens or at least getting into the tournament. He won a Natty. And they, they were, they were never really satisfied. Now he lost a couple of games in the tournament. Yeah. Two bad teams and it was time for a new voice. But there are these kind of places where like Ohio State football and.

[Joel Klatt]

Yeah.

[Nick Wright]

And I, and I think Philadelphia and pro sports has almost a collegiate delusion and zealotry and a lot of it's because Howie Roseman is so respected, is that everybody's like, well, we always have the best GM and the best player, so our coach has to win. Now Philadelphia does things that bad organizations do, but it doesn't affect them. They fire good coaches or winning coaches and they get rid of good quarterbacks or, or productive quarterbacks and they take big swings and it usually works. Yeah. So Philadelphia is, has, it has got a little low level chaos in terms of who's the coach, who's the coordinator, who's the quarterback they'll move off. I'm telling you right now, everybody loves Jalen Hurts. But Greg Cosell's been telling us this for years from the pocket. He's mediocre that he's not. He's a smaller quarterback. So you have to win a certain way in Philadelphia. And the more Jalen throws, the less effective the offense is. So you have to just own the fact. You got to get the O line in the running game. Right. Everything else in Philly feeds off that.

[Joel Klatt]

Can you imagine if they lose to the Vikings, Colin Fall to four and three.

[Nick Wright]

Well, the wise guys, you know what side they're on Eagles. O' Connell off a buy.

[Joel Klatt]

Oh, now that I'm just saying at 4 and 3, I'll be honest. You know, we keep it real on this show. Authenticity is big. I thought your AJ Brown take was was horrible. I never chimed in on it. I will say if they fall to 4 and 3 and it's like we need to change things up all of a sudden your AJ Brown takes out seems pretty good. What can we get get this guy out of here. We need to change the juju in the locker room.

[Nick Wright]

Only thing that ruins a great locker room is drama. That's it.

[Joel Klatt]

Yeah.

[Nick Wright]

That's the only thing that ruins a great locker room. Injuries are drama. They're not dealing with that many injuries. It's drama.

[Joel Klatt]

My final story is MVP I odds for the NFL this season. Listen, Patrick Mahomes is number one. Should not surprise anybody. He's been good. Baker Mayfield and Josh Allen are tied for second. Your guy Drake May checking in at fourth. I don't know. I'll let you go off. Where's Sam Darnold on this list? I mean, Sam Darnold's been second best quarterback in the league this season after Baker.

[Nick Wright]

I would go Baker 1, Mahomes 2 Darnold 3.

[Joel Klatt]

We're at the 1/3 of the way mark. Like you don't call horse race 1/3 of the way through. You know, like I'm not going to go overboard.

[Colin Cowherd]

Don't.

[Joel Klatt]

Whatever you're doing, don't bet on Mahomes to win the MVP at plus 175 or way better numbers weeks ago. Guys.

[Colin Cowherd]

Come on.

[Nick Wright]

Yeah. How about Drake May? What a great story.

[Joel Klatt]

He's been quite good.

[Nick Wright]

Yeah. J. Mac with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the herd lie news. Patriots have as many wins now as they had all last season. And if you look, they have the easiest remaining schedule in the league. So you spend 275 million or whatever it was on free agency. You get the coach and the quarterback. Right? I'm serious, though. You let Mike Vrabel out of the building. Shame on you. I mean, Michigan lost Harbaugh. Harbaugh was going to go. But sometimes like when Robert Sala got fired and he goes to San Francisco and they're all banged up and the defense is playing out of its mind. Just good rule. Even if somebody, if you own a company and somebody's struggling in a unit or a department, but they're really smart and really talented, don't let them out of the building. There's not that many smart, talented people. Vrabel's really smart and they just let them walk. We're going to fire you. Okay. How you been since then? I don't know. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific weighted vests are everywhere right now, and it's not just a fad. The science is clear. Carrying extra weight boosts calorie burn, ramps up natural human growth hormone and testosterone in the body, and builds real world strength. Not all vests though are built the same and low quality gear is getting guys hurt. That's why I'm all for Wolf Tacticals. True Fit weighted vest. Go to wolftactical USA.com Take your training and physique to the next level. The code is HERD15 for 15% off your order. That's H E R D15 at checkout. Only at wolftacticalusa.com are you trading S&P 500 or NASDAQ 100 ETFs. Instead, you can trade futures from CME Group on the equity indices you already know and love. Take advantage of the benefits to futures such as controlling larger portions with less capital thanks to lower margin requirements. You typically only need to put down 5 to 10% of the notional value to get started trading. In addition, take advantage of market moving events as they happen with the ability to trade both night and day. Futures offer deep 24 hour liquidity while the ETF market slows down overnight. Find the appropriate contract for your budget. Choose from the larger E, Mini or smaller micro sized contracts to tailor your position. Explore S&P 500 and NASDAQ 100 [e-mail] EquityFutures Derivatives are not suitable for all investors and involve the risk of losing more than the amount originally deposited and any profit you might have made. This is not a recommendation or offer to buy, sell or retain any specific investment or service. You know that feeling when you come home late from work and the puppy dog eyes just pierce right through your soul? Or when you're packing for a road trip, you put the suitcase out and your dog, your cat, refuses to leave the suitcase. Yeah, we've all been there, right? Pet parent guilt is real. And you know what? It's completely normal. That's exactly why Hill's Pet Nutrition exists. They understand that being a pet parent means being human. With all of our imperfections and daily juggling acts. Hill Science led nutrition helps you give more love than humanly possible, whether it's those long work days or trying to balance attention between, you know, multiple pets. Hill's pet nutrition gets it. They have created science based nutrition support your pet's lifelong health. You can feel confident even when life gets hectic. And it does for all of us because, hey, you're only human. There's Hills. Science does more. If you're ready to let go of the guilt, find the right [e-mail] iheart hillspet.com iheart I'm going to assume that everybody messages their friends. And I'm also going to assume that people run into issues when messaging, especially during group chats. It's really important any of my digital messaging is clear, no mistakes. It's also important when I send messages, they send quickly and I get responses quickly. WhatsApp can help with all of that. First, you can message privately with everybody in a group, even if you're using totally different phones, sent a message too fast and instantly regretted it. No problem. Just edit it. And when the chat goes a little too intense, you can switch to a group video call and actually talk it out. Photos and videos come through clear and messages get delivered without gaps or delays. Plus, WhatsApp has many great features like polls and pinned messages and even event invites with RSVPs. Cool. So plan planning stuff doesn't turn into a mess. It just makes a lot of sense. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Thoughts? This week, you know, Buffalo for about a six year run here we've had them just, just a notch below like a Philadelphia or a Kansas City. But after losing to New England and then losing to Atlanta and Michael panics kind of shredding them, they're just not that good defensively. And you know, Sean McDermott, let's be honest, Josh Allen has not let this franchise down in the playoffs. Sean McDermott's defense has let them down in the playoffs. So that's a burden. He's got a bear. Robert Mays, a podcaster sports writer from the Athletic, stop by this week and talked about just this defense and why it's not working now.

[Joel Klatt]

When Joe Brady took over, they developed.

[Nick Wright]

This really downhill run game that they could rely on.

[Colin Cowherd]

And now they have this flexibility where.

[Nick Wright]

If we need to throw the ball 40 times, we can't.

[Colin Cowherd]

If we need to run the ball.

[Nick Wright]

40 times, we can. That evolution has not happened on defense. All they're doing now is they're tinkering within the same world in which they've always existed. And I think that's where you're seeing some of the limitations.

[Colin Cowherd]

And ultimately that does fall on the coach. The Bills offense figured that out.

[Nick Wright]

We're going to be the dominant, we're going to be the enforcers.

[Colin Cowherd]

Now the Bills defense has never gotten there and I think you're seeing how that's holding them back right now.

[Nick Wright]

Yeah, I mean, they struggled with the jets, they struggled with the Saints, they struggled with the Dolphins. They've struggled with the 1 in 5 Ravens. Their top 5 draft picks were all defense. Now one of them is yet to play as a corner, Harrison. But they acquired Joey Bosa. They paid guys in the off season defensive players. So they drafted it, they acquired it, they paid it. It's still bad. They're allowing 5.8 yards per rush and that is the worst since the 1934 Cincinnati Reds. And I swear they're a baseball franchise. So it's bad. Like, like, like apparently Joe Nuxall wasn't a good tackler or something. I, it's just bad. And Nick Wright brought a very interesting point up about the McDermott, Josh Allen partnership. Every single coach quarterback combo that has ever won at least one super bowl together won their first, first super bowl together within five years of being together. For McDermott and Allen, and by the way, Lamar and Harbaugh, this is year eight. No one else has taken this long to have it happen. And then it actually happened. So history tells us for either of those teams to get over the hump, they probably will need to at some point make a change. So I mean, just, just think about that is what Nick is saying and it's factually true. If you're really an elite coach in those first four or five years, go back to Shula Marino. Those are the super bowl years because then they get older, they get beat up, they get expensive. You have limitations in modern football. You got to make hay early. I mean, McVeigh got Goff to a Super bowl early and then he won it with Stafford. But they were winning a lot of games with Goff and McVeigh and they got to a Super Bowl. So if you can't get to a Super bowl, you can say, well, it's like Phil Mickelson. We know he wasn't Tiger. He could still win majors when Tiger was in his prime. He would have won more without Tiger. But he could still, but he could still Sunday on the leaderboard, finish on top. If you're going to be great, you got to do it in certain years. And you know, it's, it's, it's not like neck worth where people generally get rich late when the Quarterback's first five or six years, your ability to spot him, polish, refine, elevate and surround him with elite talent. Now you're at a point where, well, he's, he's very expensive. And that's why Brett Veets, the general manager of Kansas City, you have got a hit on fifth and sixth and seven. So Kansas City is the perfect match where they've been kind of, you know, a lot of smoke and mirrors at wide receiver for two or three years. I do think Rasheed Rice is really talented and really has questionable judgment, but they have hit on enough mid to low round draft picks that. Okay. That you have to figure out a way once you pay Dak and Patrick and Herbert, you got to start hitting on fifth rounders. You need cheap labor. And so I look at Buffalo right now and they, you know, now again, I think their top pick, Harrison, the corner, has not played. I think he's going to play. That could solve some of it on the back end. But you know, you got to get when the gettings good. And you, you know, I've said this, I watched Cam Newton and Ben Roethlisberger age overnight because they took so many hits. And you probably have four great years of Josh Allen and then he'll be great beyond that, but he won't be quite the same. So other big story today, it's pretty significant. The rumors are out that Penn State and they got a lot of money. Penn State spending 700 million on a stadium upgrade, 45 million to get rid of the guy behind me, James Franklin. Rumors are they want Marcus Freeman and they probably have to spend 100 million on a six year deal for he and the staff, they've clearly got no issues financially. And my take is, you know, Notre Dame's a special place. It's not that special. You better pay Marcus Freeman because I, I can remember a lot of misses after Lou Holtz. We can all remember the Mrs. Ty Willingham, Bob Davey, good gentleman Mrs. Notre Dame's hard. And you know, Notre Dame, Brian Kelly won there and later admitted it's tough. It's a tough place. You've got the academic umbrella, you've got a lot of pressure. It's iconic. You know, it's not always the easiest place to get a kid from Texas when he goes up there and sees that it's cold all the time and it's out in the middle of nowhere. So I, you got to pay the money for Marcus Freeman. Notre Dame, you got to step up. And, and by the way, when you get a great coach or a great CEO or a great employee. That's the reality of it. Sometimes you got to tear the contract up and start over. So that, that's who I would target. Marcus Freeman. I, I didn't even, I mean, listen, here's how the agent game works. Media gets frustrated, fans, I don't think Marcus Freeman's interested in it. I don't, I, I think Notre Dame's a better job. I didn't think that maybe seven, eight years ago, but then, then Brian Kelly turned it around. Marcus Freeman I, I think Notre Dame is a better job than Penn State, but I think Penn State's a better job than all but about seven jobs in college football. I think there's, there's seven. It's not Michigan, it's Notre Dame. It's not Ohio State. I'd rather coach at USC or Texas, probably Georgia, but it's good. Penn State's a good job. Hour three Weighted vests are everywhere right now. And it's not just a fad. The science is clear. Carrying extra weight boosts calorie burn, ramps up natural human growth hormone and testosterone in the body and builds real world strength. Not all vests though are built the same. And low quality gear is getting guys hurt. That's why I'm all for wolf tacticals. True fit weighted vest. Go to wolftactical USA.com take your training and physique to the next level. The code is herd15 for 15% off your order. That's H E R D15 at checkout only at wolftacticalusa.com you know that feeling when you come home late from work and the puppy dog eyes just pierce right through your soul? Yeah, we've all been there, right? Pet parent guilt is real. And you know what? It's completely normal. That's exactly why Hill's pet nutrition exists. They understand that being a pet parent means being human. Hill Science led nutrition helps you give more love than humanly possible. Whether it's those long work days or trying to balance attention between, you know, multiple pets. Hill's pet nutrition gets it because hey, you're only human. There's Hills Science does more. If you're ready to let go of the guilt, find the right [e-mail] iheart hillspet.com iheart people talk a lot about athletes performance, but what about your own? QuestHealth.com can help you understand where your health stands. With Quest, you can buy your own lab tests online, no doctor visit required. Quest has a huge selection of lab tests for everything from fitness to heart, health and more. Just buy a test online and visit a nearby Quest location for sample collection. You'll get fast results online, and for a limited time, you can save on select lab [e-mail] use the code herd10 at checkout. Terms apply the next time you fly. Upgrade your comfort to Emirates Premium Economy. Sink into soft leather seats with raised leg rests and adjustable headrests. Elevate your dinner plans with delicious regional dining, all served with complimentary premium drinks. Enjoy endless entertainment with up to 6,500 channels, including live sports. There's no other premium economy like it. Fly Emirates fly better.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.