The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Hour 2 – Joel Klatt Stops by The Herd
Date: October 22, 2025
Podcast: The Herd with Colin Cowherd (iHeartPodcasts & The Volume)
Special Guest: Joel Klatt
Overview
This episode of The Herd dives deep into the latest in both NFL and college football, with a heavy focus on quarterback storylines, coaching philosophies, the changed dynamics in college football (due to NIL, transfer portal, and expanded playoff), and an in-depth conversation with college football analyst Joel Klatt. There is lively analysis of Russell Wilson's ongoing drama, trends in quarterback careers, the shifting nature of the college game, and debates over what builds a winning program at both the college and pro levels.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Russell Wilson vs. Sean Payton Feud and Respect Issues in the NFL
(01:30–08:30)
- Colin Cowherd recaps the ongoing tension between Russell Wilson and Broncos coach Sean Payton, including a pointed post-game comment by Payton and Wilson’s public response:
- Payton after the Broncos beat the Giants (and with Jackson Dart, Wilson's replacement, playing well):
"Those guys found a new juice about them, you could see that... they found a little spark with that quarterback..." (06:00)
- Wilson fires back on X:
"Classless. Not surprised. Didn't realize you're still bounty hunting 15 plus years later through the media. Let's ride.” (06:45)
- Payton after the Broncos beat the Giants (and with Jackson Dart, Wilson's replacement, playing well):
- Colin’s take: Wilson’s career has been a “Netflix special” of disrespect, from being replaced at NC State, underappreciated in the NFL draft despite productivity, to being overshadowed in Seattle and replaced multiple times in Denver and beyond.
- Theme:
- The harsh reality for undersized quarterbacks in the NFL (Tua, Kyler Murray, Russ)—they don’t last as long and don’t age well.
- Continuous disrespect has fueled Wilson; he’s finally breaking his silence in frustration.
2. UCLA vs. Indiana: The Evolution of College Football Parity
Guest: Joel Klatt
(08:34–09:55)
- Klatt on UCLA’s turnaround:
“They're playing substantially better football... I think more than any other year, there are opportunities for a team like UCLA to not only play with but maybe even beat Indiana.” (08:34)
- Key changes:
- Talent dispersion thanks to NIL and revenue sharing.
- New energy from improved offensive philosophy and coordinators, led by Jerry Neuheisel teaching the “why” behind the plays.
- Reality Check: Indiana remains tough—they rank top 5 in both scoring offense and defense and have a potential top-5 NFL pick at QB.
3. NFL & College Football Are Merging Philosophically
(09:55–11:22)
- Cowherd and Klatt discuss the increasing overlap between college and NFL in coaching staffs/strategies.
- Rob Parker: “College football today...feels much more Sunday than Saturday.” (13:16)
- New playoff structure: More games are played in challenging weather, like the NFL—teams must be built for December football, not just early season bowl games in the sun.
4. Notre Dame’s Championship Potential
(11:22–13:16)
- Colin on Notre Dame: “I would want no part of Notre Dame if they get to the playoff. Am I crazy?” (11:07)
- Klatt agrees:
“No, you're not crazy. I based an entire episode of my podcast around this exact topic…” (11:22)
- Notre Dame’s improved physicality, depth at running back, and maturing quarterback make them a real threat—“easily in the top six” teams with championship potential.
5. Jackson Dart: A College-to-NFL Transition Surprise
(13:16–15:08)
- Cowherd admits he didn’t foresee Jackson Dart thriving so quickly in the NFL after an uneven college career.
- Klatt:
“If anybody says that they saw this, they’re lying... He would have gotten selected a lot higher than he did.” (14:06)
- Giants’ offense has been tailored to Dart’s skills; he’s injected new energy (“juice”) into the team, justifying Payton’s postgame comments.
6. Coaching Philosophies: “Walk Around” CEOs vs. Play-Callers
(15:26–18:32)
- Cowherd’s thesis: NFL success comes from alpha, CEO-type head coaches, not always schemers; in college, it’s slightly different but trending the same way.
- Klatt argues:
“In the NFL scheme guys are rewarded... Andy Reid, Kyle Shanahan, those guys win. What you don’t see in college is scheme guys and specifically play-callers win at the top level… CEOs win in college football.” (17:11)
- Recent trend: Even successful play-calling head coaches (like Ryan Day) are giving up the role to manage the broader program and culture.
7. USC and Lincoln Riley – Is Culture Trumping Scheme?
(18:32–23:08)
- Colin laments: USC always seems soft, especially on the road, despite innovative play design by Lincoln Riley.
“How many years do I have to watch USC get pushed around on every road game before I don't have this opinion? He's not a culture builder.” (16:38, 18:38)
- Klatt: Improvement is coming, but the blueprint for success in college football now requires a “walk around,” CEO-style leader more than a pure play-caller.
8. Kalyn DeBoer at Alabama: Succeeding a Legend in a New Era
(20:12–22:31)
- Cowherd roots for DeBoer, highlighting the challenges of following Nick Saban at Alabama, especially with “resource” and NIL issues.
- Klatt counters:
“I don’t know if it was a resource battle...I just don’t think Nick Saban wanted those [NIL/transfer] conversations anymore.” (20:45)
- DeBoer's results as a coach and his new top QB (Ty Simpson) position Alabama as SEC favorites, but the team’s identity is inevitably different from Saban’s era.
9. USC Projections & The Playoff Standard
(22:44–23:14)
- Klatt:
“I think USC makes a playoff in the next 24 months.” (23:08)
- **Cowherd responds with skepticism about dropping standards for a once-elite program now content with making the expanded playoff.
10. NFL News & Rapid Fire
(29:09–34:53)
- Vikings QB situation: Carson Wentz to start over injured J.J. McCarthy. (29:09)
- Cowherd on rookie QBs: Expresses doubts about McCarthy as a franchise guy, in contrast to last year’s “star draft” hype. (30:20)
- Injury updates: Jaden Daniels out for the Chiefs game; Marcus Mariota to start in relief. (31:30)
- Raiders’ rookie Ashton Genti: Critical of team culture after a blowout loss:
“It’s been, you know, losing culture around here for a long time. But we have to continue to work to fix that and bring winning back here.” (33:44)
11. NBA Segment: Warriors Need a Reboot, Not a Fling
(40:03–45:45)
- Cowherd: The Warriors have evolved through eras, but now are an “antique store”—too old to keep up with the West’s athleticism.
- Proposed trade: Package Jimmy Butler, Jonathan Kuminga, and four firsts for Giannis at the deadline; draft picks are increasingly valuable with strengthened college hoops pipeline and European influx.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- Colin on Russell Wilson’s career:
“The Russell Wilson story deserves a Netflix special.” (07:30)
- Joel Klatt on college football parity:
“I think more than any other year, there are opportunities for a team like UCLA to... maybe even beat Indiana.” (08:40)
- Klatt on coaching:
“Scheme guys win in the NFL. What you don’t see in college is scheme guys and specifically play callers win at the top level... CEOs win in college football.” (17:11)
- Klatt on Notre Dame:
“There are six teams that... any given week, any given run through the playoff, these six can win it all. And Notre Dame is one of those.” (12:36)
- Colin on the Warriors:
“The Warriors are a little bit of an antique store. It's fun to rummage around in there a little bit...I’d rather go to Restoration Hardware and get the new stuff.” (44:15)
- Ashton Genti, Raiders rookie RB:
“If we're being honest, it's been, you know, losing culture around here for a long time. But we have to continue to work to fix that and bring winning back here.” (33:44)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Russell Wilson vs. Payton Fallout: 01:30–08:30
- Joel Klatt on UCLA–Indiana & College Talent: 08:34–09:55
- NFL/College Philosophical Merging: 09:55–11:22
- Notre Dame Playoff Threat: 11:22–13:16
- Jackson Dart’s Pro Emergence: 13:16–15:08
- Coaching CEOs vs. Play-Callers: 15:26–18:32
- USC’s Trajectory and Riley Debate: 18:32–23:14
- Alabama, DeBoer & Saban’s Shadow: 20:12–22:31
- NFL Quick Hits: 29:09–34:53
- NBA—Warriors’ Future and Trades: 40:03–45:45
Tone and Style
The conversation is fast-paced, deeply analytical, and laced with trademark dry humor, skepticism, and the opinionated candor that defines The Herd. There’s heavy use of anecdote and speculation to frame bigger trends. Joel Klatt provides insider expertise, and the rapport between host and guest is conversational yet probing, challenging assumptions and pushing each other for stronger takes.
Useful for Listeners Who Missed the Episode
This summary condenses the key arguments, dramatic moments, and expert analysis of a densely-packed hour focusing on the shifting landscapes of both the NFL and college football, with particular attention to quarterback narratives, the importance of coaching archetypes, and what it takes to build a lasting contender—plus a bonus for NBA fans pondering the Warriors’ next move.