← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
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Tarika Foster Brasby
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Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd@foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
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Rachel Nichols
Now let's get this party started.
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You're listen to Fox Sports Radio.
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Jason McIntyre
Here we go, our number two here on the Herd. It is Thursday. We do not have a LeBron James decision. It's okay. The world keeps spinning on its axis. It's me, Jason McIntyre in for Colin Cowherd. We are on LeBron watch. My guy, Fernando Mendoza just signing his contract with the Raiders here in the last five minutes, which is fantastic. Also fantastic, we got an NFL analyst stopping by. I don't know if he's ever done TV before. This might be his first hit. I had him on my podcast recently. He was phenomenal. He. He worked for the Eagles. He was on the headset with the head coaches talking about fourth down decisions. He's a Dartmouth Grady super sharp Ryan Paganetti. We'll talk to him shortly. However, I need to start this hour with my super bowl tears as a lead into talking to Ryan. Now, I haven't gone online since announcing the tears about an hour ago. And this is what super bowl tears gets all people worked up because that's what happens. How my team is not in the top. Why are the Ravens up there? So at the very top I had Rams. No surprise Seahawks, obviously. Eagles, I think might catch a few people by surprise. And then Ravens again. There's a huge divide between the fans in the NFL. Lamar Jackson stings. He can't win the big game. Analytics and Vegas and two of the sides, the smart ones, love the Ravens. I'm going to side with those guys.
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Ryan Paganetti
Sorry.
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Jason McIntyre
Fans in the I want to believe category. Chargers, Bills, Packers, Lions, Texans. I want to believe they've. They're all flawed. Okay. Gonna need some help. Bengals, Niners, Patriots, Chiefs. Chiefs are going to become a flashpoint here, folks. Remember, they were atrocious 1 and 9 and 1 score games last year after going 11 and oh in 2024. And we had Albert Brier on to talk about what's going to happen with the Chiefs this year. Here's what Brier said about Kansas City and Patrick Mahomes.
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Ryan Paganetti
I look at Kansas City and it's hard for me to see if Mahomes is healthy in himself. Like a place where they're winning less than 10 games, right? Like, I think that's sort of the baseline when you've got a quarterback like that. Their ability to elevate up until like the 13, 14 win range where they've been over the last few years, I think really kind of depends on a lot of those ifs. If Rashi Rice is a number one receiver. If Josh Simmons is in there for 17 games at left tackle. If Kevin F. Walker hits as their big free free agent acquisition. If Mansour Delane can play right out of the box at corner.
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Jason McIntyre
Lot of ifs. And I'm kind of with beer there. We'll see. I think they're going to be fine. 10 wins right about there. And in the overhyped category, we have Collins. Chicago Bears with Ben Johnson. The Dallas Cowboys question mark at coach with Brian Schottenheimer. I did like the defensive moves this off season. The Jags, who won 13 games last year, which is still kind of crazy to say out loud, they did lose a playoff game to the Bills. Close one.
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They.
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Jason McIntyre
They fought hard, but it came up on the losing end. And then the Denver Broncos again. Denver Broncos won 14 games last year. They would have been in the super bowl if Bo Nix didn't get hurt. That's a real thing, guys. Their win total is nine and a half this year. And that's led to a lot of questions about Bo Nix. And I don't know, I don't want to say I crushed Bo Nix earlier, but I think the only question in Denver is about Bo Nix. We know the defense Is stacked, offensive line is excellent. You add Jalen Waddle, you're strong at the skill positions. The question is, can Bo Nix deliver? He doesn't want to throw over the middle of the field. His downfield accuracy had some major problems. I mean, they did have two wins. I think one of them was against Trey Lance late in the season. And this is a team that should have lost to Buffalo last year in the playoff game. Buffalo got job by the officials and they should have been there. But two of the teams in the overhyped category, the Jags and the Cowboys, our next guest has them as sleepers. So let's bring on Ryan Paganetti, first time guest here on the Herd football strategy analytics consultant. Last year he was with the Las Vegas Raiders. So obviously we'll talk Mendoza in a little bit. Ryan, great to have you on. I want to start by telling everybody about your experience with the Philadelphia Eagles who just happen to win a Super bowl with you on the headset.
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Ryan Paganetti
Yeah, you know, it's, it, it's, it's been a long time since that point. You know, the Eagles have managed to get another one, but, you know, sort of being that person that communicate, hey, here's when we go for fourth downs, two point conversions, you know, when are we going to call timeouts and challenges and whatnot? Like, I was fortunate to be a part of that with the Eagles. And, you know, doing that in front of 100 million people was kind of surreal at the time. And the Philly special moment, I jokingly tell people, you know, if that play didn't work, I was never going to be allowed back in Philadelphia just because the fans would be pretty upset.
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Yeah.
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Jason McIntyre
So was it a tough sell to the rest of the coaching staff? Some of these, hey, we got to go on fourth down Philly special. Was it, was it a difficult sell? I mean, some of these football guys are older dudes and they're not going to be up with these analytics and going for it and going for two.
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Ryan Paganetti
Yeah, I think you always are battling different coaches, but like, Jeffrey Lurie had an amazing attitude in Philly and that was super helpful. You know, in terms of he would fight the battle with Coach Peterson with, you know, with the analytics group as well. And when there's an organizational alignment with, you know, Howie Roseman obviously believing in analytics as well, that's a lot easier than, you know, fighting that as a solo person saying, hey, let's do something that no one else has ever done. And, you know, a lot of coaches are not comfortable with that. And you know, a lot of things we did back then when we were leading the league at fourth down attempts and two point conversions and QB sneaks, those have like, largely been normalized and I, I think it's kind of cool to have been part of that.
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Jason McIntyre
Yeah. Let me ask you about the Eagles right now. The, the, the Jalen hurts, Tush push, the brotherly shove, whatever you want to call it, that has become a bit of an issue around the league to the point where I think the Eagles ran it a lot less last year. I, I do wonder, do you think that hurts their offensive game plan because they got a new oc, New offensive line coach? It felt like an auto, auto play. Hey, let's just get seven yards, get it to third and two and we'll get the, we'll get the, the obvious first down in the red zone. It was effective. Do you think they'll go to it as much this year or do you think we'll see a lot less of it?
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Ryan Paganetti
I think it's, that's a very interesting discussion because, you know, for the first time in a dozen years, Jeff Stelin is not there. And you know, from my experience with Jeff Stelin, he was, he was fighting the QB sneak battle as much as any coach I have ever been around. And you have players like Jason Kelsey historically who would. He probably would have, you know, have honestly thrown a fit at different points if the team didn't call a quarterback sneak. And this last season there was a little bit of a step back there. There was some mention about some of the offensive linemen being a little bit banged up. I think they'll still continue to do some flavor of the Tush push. You know, maybe it's a little bit different formations. Maybe there's a little bit of a threat for jet sweeps or plays to the outside, you know, given the new offensive coordinator. But that's going to be something that's very interesting there because there's, there's been more and more talk in Philadelphia about the health of the players maybe being a concern with that play essential, you know, being a rugby scrum.
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Jason McIntyre
Yeah. As an analytics guy, a strategy guy, are you surprised to hear stuff like, hey, Jalen hurts, he may be on the hot seat for his quarterback job. Are you surprised to hear that or not really?
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Ryan Paganetti
No. I mean, being in Philadelphia, you know, we were, I think 12 and 2 at one point in the year we won the super bowl and Nick Foles was out there against the Raiders and we go three and out in the first half and the Entire fan base was booing and like, that's. That's what you sign up for when you're with Philadelphia, because the passion and the expectations are super bowl. And, you know, some fans, some players don't like it, some staff don't like it, but the standard is there that if you're not winning the super bowl, you better be worried about your own job. And they, you know, Jalen, I think, has the absolutely the right mindset. I overlapped with them for one year there, and you could just tell there was something special about his attitude and his drive to win. And I wouldn't bet against that guy in terms of turning things around, you know, and even in a year that they didn't perform as well, I mean, they're still making the playoffs. The bad years for Philly recently have been playoff seasons.
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Right.
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Jason McIntyre
Uh, let's go to my super bowl tears list, if we could get it on the screen. I had the Jags and the Cowboys into overhyped. Now, apparently you like those teams. Now you do have a connection to the Jaguars. I don't know how much you could say about that. But let's start with the Cowboys. This is a team that traded Micah Parsons, was atrocious on defense, that made some nice moves. Caleb Downs, obviously a big ad. We know the offense is good. As a Jets fan, I just remember Brian Schottenheimer underwhelming as an oc I don't know your thoughts, but would you. Would you bump up the Jags and Cowboys from this list?
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Ryan Paganetti
Yes. You know, I know every single year, especially from someone in Philadelphia, you know, people give a hard time to the Cowboys, but they were exceptional in the past game last year on offense. And overall, the offense was great. The defense, you know, by basically every evaluation was a severe struggle. They brought in a defensive coordinator that was part of the Fangio tree. You know, I've heard great things about that defensive coordinator. They're going to probably, you know, implement the two high scheme that Fangio has had, you know, incredible success with. If they're. If they're the 15th best defense and they're the same offense that they were last year, like they're a Super bowl contender.
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Wow.
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Ryan Paganetti
And, you know, they do have some players up front that I.
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Lane Kiffin
That are.
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Ryan Paganetti
That can be difference makers. And I think that, you know, if you were going to ask me over the last 10 years, if there was ever a year that I really bought into the Cowboys, particularly where the expectations are a little bit lower, like, I honestly think this might be the year for them.
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Jason McIntyre
Whoa, that's a hot take. Now, their defensive coordinator came from the Eagles, right?
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Ryan Paganetti
Yes.
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Yeah.
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Jason McIntyre
Oh, interesting. A guy you probably know. All right, so did Jaguars talk a little bit about them 13 wins last year? I don't want to say it was smoke and mirrors, but Liam Cohen knows his stuff, clearly. Are you buying this team bouncing back or a lot of people like the Texans in that division.
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Ryan Paganetti
You know, I think the Texans are an outstanding team too. Obviously there were some questions with the offense last year and the quarterback at times, but, you know, they really had, you know, Seattle had an unbelievable season and Houston actually was better than them on defense in some stats. But I think both those teams to me are playoff teams. And really the interesting thing about the Jaguars is if you just zoom out to really the second half of the season after they traded for Jacoby Myers, after Liam Cohen and Trevor Lawrence kind of started to gel together, I mean, they were a great team down the stretch and there was some incredibly close calls there in that Buffalo Bills playoff game, you know, they beat. If they hypothetically win that game, you know, I wouldn't necessarily think that they would have had a really good shot to make a serious run there. They kept the same coordinators. You know, both their offensive and defensive coordinators had a ton of interest. I was around Trevor Lawrence for three years. You know, to me the raw talent that Trevor has is just off the charts, like just incredibly impressive. They started using his legs more, which I think you see guys like Josh Allen who reach that MVP level. Trevor can do some of those things in terms of the athleticism. And the other final aspect of that is like they have the, the ultimate difference maker in these end of half an end of game situations. When you have a guy that can make 70 yard field goals and you. There was discussions that Cam Little has made 72 yarders in practice. And you start thinking about these, that last, you know, drive against Buffalo. They're, you know, they end up throwing an interception, but you're thinking about potential situations where if they get to their own 48 yard line, like Cam Little can attempt a field goal. And that is, you know, it's insane to think about. I tell people this crazy stat, but in 2000, there was only one field goal in the entire NFL that was 55 plus yards. And this last year there was 74. And you know, so the sport is changing and these top end guys, both Dallas and Jacksonville have these guys that can really just, you know, almost infinite range. And it's, it's just, it's an exceptional thing that's going on.
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Jason McIntyre
But wait, is it a, is it a different football? Because it's not like the guys are that much better in just six years, is it the.
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Ryan Paganetti
So it would, that would be. Since 2000 was the. Over time the kickers have improved. You know, there's a lot of work on, on the ball. There was this change in this last offseason where they changed the K ball process where basically teams could work on the balls much more significantly. And you know, there's a little bit of debate on it, but there's some, there's some companies that have attempted to try to assess how much that actually helped the distance. And, and by at least one evaluation it was like somewhere between 4 to 5 yards of additional distance from 2024 to 2025. So it's almost like the discussions when, when they talk about the baseball hypothetically being juiced for one season or whatnot. Like it was just, I mean it was incredible. I was actually with the Raiders last year. The Jaguars complete a pass of the 50 yard line right before halftime and Cam Little sets the all time NFL record making a 68 yard field goal right in front of us. And honestly he, he made it pretty comfortably. So it's a very interesting world.
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Jason McIntyre
Yeah, interesting. So you're dropping a lot of stats and some stuff I'm not hearing on other shows. I'm just curious. There's a big debate about analytics and the NFL. It's still kind of one of these old school, I test leagues. But it sounds like behind the scenes there are an avalanche of stats that are getting applied. I'm curious, when we look at Bo Nix, some of the stats that I've been looking at, the advanced stats, he don't throw over the middle of the field, he doesn't throw down the field well, yet everybody has, oh, Bo Nix is a top 10 ish quarterback, top 15. The analytics don't really love him. They love the rest of the Broncos. Where are you on Bo Nix?
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Ryan Paganetti
Yeah, so what I'd say is, is in terms of how Denver built their roster, I think it's exceptional. You know, I think if you were to just rank the O line, D line combo in terms of who is, who is entering the season with the best group, I think it's hard to debate that Denver's really number one there and both groups are great. And that foundation is something we had in Philadelphia where the engine of the team, whoever was behind it, was going to be, you know, that offensive line, that defensive line. And as A result like, you can. You can handle potentially some rougher games from the quarterback or. Or lesser talent at running back or even, you know, potentially at times, lesser skill players at receiver because, you know, the quarterback's going to have all the time in the world. And I think there's definitely some things that Bo could potentially, you know, improve upon, just like anyone in the league. And. But, you know, for example, when we lost Wentz in our super bowl year and we were able to put Nick Foles in, like, when you have that foundation of a great online and great D line like you, that a lot of people can succeed in that world, and there's always debates of how much is the quarterback, how much is it the, you know, the group around him. But he has a great, great foundation to work off of, and it will always be a little bit of a debate of what he can do. I would have loved to see him play against the Patriots. You know, I think they. They probably would have had a really good shot making the super bowl there. And, you know, I really think as long as they have those lines, like, they're going to be a contender, you know, going forward.
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Jason McIntyre
Yeah. What does it say that you. That's a great point. So with Wentz, the drop off to Foals was not that big of a deal. Foals was fine. He threw for a billion yards in the Super Bowl. The drop off from Bo Nix to Stidham was colossal. Now, some of that had to do with, hey, just in a week, can we get him up to speed? But I don't know, does that mean Knicks is great, or does that just mean maybe Stidham was terrible?
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Ryan Paganetti
I think that, you know, the. Obviously the nuance of basically having one week to prepare for the AFC Championship game was so unique there, as opposed to. We had some time with Foles and there was some feeling out process. And we ended up going back to some of the stuff that Chip Kelly was doing with Nick Foles when he had success with him, you know, back in 2013 when they were. They had an incredible season, but we sort of leaned on some of that as we went on that super bowl stretch. But, you know, you sort of. The time constraint is a limitation. The weather obviously was a limitation as well. You know, New England had a good defense, but I also think, just big picture, you know, whenever you can invest additional resources in that backup quarterback spot, like, I think it's. It's really set your team up where you're not in a situation where Peyton Manning goes down and your Season is basically over. Like, there's a world where if you need to put somebody in for four games, like, you have a chance at winning. And, you know, there's different philosophies there. Some people are like, hey, if our quarterback's out, we're just basically playing for the draft pick. And other teams are thinking, like, this guy goes down, and we want to have that foundation where we still have a chance.
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Jason McIntyre
Now, you're a Dartmouth grad, obviously, great school. You have a lot of analytics. You just started sharing some of that stuff this summer. So a lot of stuff coming out there new, and people are, like, blown away. I need to ask you, this is a tough one because Rachel and I have been debating this a lot. A lot of people online upset. Should they start Fernando Mendoza with the Raiders? Now, I should preface this by saying you were with the Raiders last year. I personally would start Mendoza. I don't think they will. Kubiak knows Cousins. I would start him. What would you do with Mendoza in week one?
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Ryan Paganetti
Yeah, so what I would say is, obviously there's an interesting nuance there where you have Tom Brady who sat and, you know, proceeded to have the best career in NFL history. You've got a player, you know, he's an owner. He's going to have some input there. Patrick Mahomes sat. You know, he's had an unbelievable start to his career. You know, you have other players like Josh Allen, you know, start immediately and maybe struggle a little bit, but then once they get those reps, you know, they can really perform. You know, one nuance that I had, I think is you're not going to have, even within your own organization, everyone sort of universally agreeing. And kind of my example is we actually, you know, we traded up for Wentz in 2016, and we had Sam Bradford on the team. And the plan was for Sam Bradford to start that season and potentially start the whole season. And then at one point in training camp, I sort of heard from the upper echelons in the front office because I had been compiling stats for all the quarterbacks during training camp, and Wentz had sort of started to have some impressive moments and the other asking for these stats. And it may have been like 48 hours later, we were trading Sam Bradford for a first round pick to the Vikings. So sometimes, you know, I think varying dynamics whether how the player looks in practice, that can be, you know, a huge deal. And ultimately, I think the players want to feel that whoever you're putting out there gives the team the best chance to win. And if it's very obvious that, you know, he is clearly the top guy and it's week one, I, I think there's no reason, you know, he, there's unique attributes about Mendoza, like how intelligent he is, how hard he works, how experienced he is that I think would allow him to potentially succeed his rookie year. More than the typical player. But at the same time, Kirk Cousins has been with Kubiak. They, you know, the reports are that Kirk's doing a great job and you know, I think they're having both those players is going to be great for them. And even if Mendoza does sit temporarily or he sits for an extended period of time, he's going to learn. And I think it's an interesting scenario. I personally would probably lean towards starting Mendoza just because I do think, like, at the end of the day he probably has the higher upside. I think just about anybody would conclude that in terms of the grand scheme of things. And you know, I don't, I don't know if you necessarily want to be starting 2027 and he's played, you know, half of one game and you're sitting there and, you know, you're talking about he has to kind of go through his bumps and bruises in the 2027 season and you almost kind of wasted a season there. So it's going to be a narrative every week. You know, I'm sure on, on, on the Herd, it's going to be a weekly discussion point. If they go through a rough stretch, if they go through a good stretch, like, maybe people won't talk about it as much, but it'll be, it'll be something to talk about.
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Jason McIntyre
Well, like Cam Ward last year I liked him a lot. Now they didn't have a veteran. They just said, we're throwing you out there. He was bad, but who cares? They weren't winning with a veteran anyway. But sorry, I want to go back to the, the Sam Bradford comparison. Sam Bradford and Wentz. So you were compiling stats during training camp. Can you talk a little bit? Like, what are the stats that we should look for? It's not as simple as completions and drops and all this stuff. What are the stats that mattered that helped put Wentz over the top pretty quickly?
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Ryan Paganetti
I think, you know, at that time we were, it was, it was relatively crude of like every single stat from practice. Like, okay, this was his exact completion rate. This was like his on target rate in terms of like actually having a coach assess like how precise the throw was as opposed to, did he complete it? You know, we Were just trying to assess, like, okay, this throw was made on time. This throw. This throw was maybe the wrong read, but really, I think there was, like, a red zone period. And at one point where it went, like, essentially threw a touchdown on almost every single play. And that was sort of the moment where I think the front office people who were probably a little bit more on the side of getting Wentz out there, they were sort of looking at that as like, okay, this is kind of the turning point. And then it really was an incredible offer for, you know, for Sam Bradford. I think they got a first round pick out of it.
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Rachel Nichols
Oh.
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Ryan Paganetti
And it just sort of made all the sense in the world at that time. I think that was when Minnesota had a severe, you know, quarterback injury, and there was a little bit desperate. But, you know, just at the end of the day, the players will know and, like, they want, like, if Max Crosby is out there and he sees that Mendoza is clearly the better player, and the other players on that team see that Mendoza is the better player in camp. Like, I think you feel somewhat of an obligation as a head coach and as a man, you know, management to get the best guy out there. And because that's the right thing for the fans, it's the right thing for the organization to really just like, feel like all these guys putting their time in, that it's. They're doing it and it's. It's for the total meritocracy. Whoever's the best guy gets their shot.
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Jason McIntyre
Yeah. I mean, obviously, there's nuance to this, but, you know, for tv, we got to have a take. I do. Last thing, real quick. So in that discussion on Wentz or Bradford, you said front office wanted to get the ball rolling with Wentz. Coaching staff obviously wants to win to keep their job. So they want the veteran, I would assume. Is that safe to say?
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Ryan Paganetti
I think you always run into a little bit of that, particularly with draft picks, especially maybe if the coach is a little bit on the hot seat where, Right, you know, there may be a little bit slower. It's not even just that quarterback, but they might be slower at a number of different positions of, like, okay, we don't necessarily feel comfortable about getting this player out here yet. The front office is like, hey, we drafted this guy in the third round. Like, can we try to develop him? You know, it doesn't necessarily reflect well on all of us if this guy's not playing. But the coach is like, hey, this guy knows his assignments. This guy's a vet. And you're always kind of balancing that behind the scenes a little bit in terms of, you know, are you focusing on the absolute best guy to win Week one versus the guy that is going to help you win week 10? I think it's an interesting dynamic in most organizations.
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Jason McIntyre
All right, Ryan Paganetti, NFL analyst, consultant on analytics. Great stuff. Hey man, happy to have you. Ryan, that was outstanding. Obviously you have a bright future ahead in this media stuff. Keep up the good work, my man.
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Ryan Paganetti
Thank you.
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Jason McIntyre
All right, Ryan Paganetti. He was, I mean, with the Raiders last year with the Eagles when they won a Super bowl, folks. Hey, listen, what do I know? But I just heard a bunch of analytics and some smart stuff that, I mean, I don't. The Jags are not really on my radar. I you saw me put them in the bottom tier of super bowl teams. Sounds like they got something cooking there. All right, coming up next year, Lane Kiffin at SEC Media Days. Are we gonna see a new Lane Kiffin? That's what Rachel says. We'll see you next.
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days a month, each lasting four hours or more.
- [27:27]
Botox Onobotulinum toxin a prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It Prevents on average 8 to 9 headache days a month versus 6 to 7 for placebo. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Botox effects may spread out hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as trouble swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness can be signs of a life threatening condition. Those with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions like rash, breathing problems, dizziness, neck and injection site pain and headache. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions like als, myasthenia gravis or Lambert Eaton syndrome, and medicines like botulinum toxins, which may increase the risk of serious side effects.
- [28:26]
Make a plan and ask your doctor about Botox. Visit botoxchronicmigraine.com or call 1-844botox.
- [28:38]
Now more than ever, Americans need a laugh. Enter the Super Troopers to the rescue. Vermont's finest and most shockingly offensive mustachioed highway patrol officers return to the big screen in Super Troopers 3. More pullover pranks, More over the top shenanigans than ever. The latest installment of the cult comedy classic Rod Farva is the wildly over the top Indian engagement to Thorny's sister spirals out of control. Debauchery, bachelor parties, a wedding that Thorny's desperate to stop, and a dangerous drug smuggling ring all threaten the troops, friendship and future. Fill your liter of cola, grab your buds and roll up to the multiplex for Super Troopers 3 only in theaters August 7th.
- [29:17]
Get tickets?
- [29:18]
Meow.
- [29:18]
For any small business owner, there's a moment when you realize the next hire could be the difference between staying busy and actually growing. The challenge is finding the right person without wasting time sorting through candidates who aren't the right fit. That's where Indeed Sponsored Jobs comes in, where a workplace chaos hits and you need somebody who can step in and make a difference. This is a job for Sponsored Jobs. It helps you put your job in front of candidates who match the criteria that matter most to you, whether it's skills, experience, certifications or location. And you're certainly not alone in using Indeed. Join the 3.3 million employers worldwide that use Indeed to connect with quality talent that fits their needs. That's millions of businesses turning to Indeed to help solve hiring challenges and find people who can drive results. Spend less time searching, more time actually interviewing candidates who check all the boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. Get your 75 doll sponsored job credit today@ Indeed.com podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now then, this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Every day, American heroes put it all on the line to protect our freedoms, communities and families. And behind every folded flag and retired uniform is a family that carries the weight of their sacrifice. Folds of Honor steps in with educational scholarships for spouses and children of fallen or disabled military service members and first responders. The mission is life changing, and monthly donations make it possible. Become a donor today@foldsofhonor.org to help meet their sacrifice with hope.
- [30:56]
Jason McIntyre
Great stuff from Ryan Paganetti. Let's go to more great stuff from Rachel Nichols. She's got the news.
- [31:05]
Rachel Nichols
Turn on the news.
- [31:06]
Fox Sports Radio Announcer
This is the Herdline news.
- [31:08]
Rachel Nichols
Jason, another hour, another LeBron report.
- [31:12]
Jason McIntyre
Why not?
- [31:14]
Rachel Nichols
This one says that Clutch Sports is trying to get Anthony Davis traded to either the warriors or the Cavs to play with LeBron. The report does also say, though, that neither team wants to do a deal for AD because he's going to want that big extension. Look, it's important to say here that the Wizards would also need to agree to do this trade, and they've been pretty adamant about not wanting to trade Anthony Davis. I will always say also, though, that if the price is right, anybody is on the market. So I guess it would depend on how much one of these teams hypothetically offered them. But I guess one thing I wanted to ask you about this was there was a time with LeBron's various free agencies where teams would scramble almost like a beauty pageant, to, like, make roster moves just to be in the running, just to be considered. And have we tipped the point where a team won't make a move unless he commits to them, or do you think teams would still do it on spec? Basically?
- [32:09]
Jason McIntyre
That's a great question. I just wonder if teams are more handcuffed because of the second apron and trying to dodge it. And like, again, LeBron, historically in your examples is, where do we clear up 50 million for LeBron? And now it's like, is he going to come here for the league minimum?
- [32:24]
Tarika Foster Brasby
Yeah.
- [32:25]
Jason McIntyre
Now, I didn't. I should have looked into this. I don't know what Jared Allen makes, but is there a world where there's a Jared Allen plus swap for Anthony Davis? I think that would personally be a downgrade, but there is insurance. If Davis is hurt and out, you just slide Mobley to the center. Right. So, I mean, I don't know that that's a thing that could happen. Jared Allen was good, by the way, in both game sevens against the Raptors and Pistons. He's a good center. I mean, there's not a lot of great centers out there, right? Top 10 center. Is that safe to say?
- [32:56]
Rachel Nichols
Look, I don't know Jared Allen's age offhand. Maybe one of our producers can tell us, but you don't typically trade a player who's 10 years younger for a guy with injury issues who's 10 years older and give him a giant extension which they would need to commit to to be part of a trade like that. So, look, the Cavaliers just did it, or a version of it with Darius Garland. And James Harden.
- [33:20]
Jason McIntyre
That's a good point.
- [33:20]
Rachel Nichols
So it's not as if it never happens.
- [33:22]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah. So Anthony Davis is 33 and Allen's 28.
- [33:25]
Rachel Nichols
So five years.
- [33:27]
Jason McIntyre
But I mean, on the name recognition, people would say, oh, AD's much better. But okay, give me last three years. Who's better?
- [33:33]
Rachel Nichols
You gotta play too.
- [33:34]
Jason McIntyre
Exactly. He can't stay on the court.
- [33:36]
Rachel Nichols
There's that. But look, I mean, look, if LeBron Kenny Atkinson came out on the radio during summer league and went a lot stronger than I would have if I was the coach of one of those teams and said, we really need him,
- [33:48]
Jason McIntyre
he's the Jarrett Allen or LeBron LeBron,
- [33:50]
Rachel Nichols
he's what would make our lineup work.
- [33:52]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah.
- [33:52]
Rachel Nichols
And first of all, I don't know what that says to the rest of the guys in the locker room. That's why if I was a coach, I wouldn't say that. But maybe that just reflects that the Cavs feel like they really need him both in terms of, you know, experience and actually play on the court. And they would be willing to sort of make a deal on spec, or even if not on spec, just say to LeBron, okay, if this is the cost, we'll do it, but you have to promise to come here. Which by the happens all the time. Right. I mean, Miami basically just did that with Giannis. They weren't going to give up everything they gave up with Giannis, unless, as Giannis had promised, I'm going to re sign with you. So this is a long term deal and not a one year deal. So it's not unprecedented that a team would do that in any way, shape or form. But it's just LeBron, it's a very different animal. And LeBron has never had this experience there have. You know, when Rich Paul started this sort of auctioning period of like, who wants to make us the best offer. He talked about 28 teams being excited.
- [34:54]
Jason McIntyre
You buy that?
- [34:55]
Rachel Nichols
Well, one of them would have to be the. One of the. Not two teams would have to be the Lakers.
- [34:59]
Jason McIntyre
Okay.
- [35:00]
Rachel Nichols
And so, because we know they weren't.
- [35:02]
Jason McIntyre
So Memphis is not bringing LeBron there.
- [35:04]
Rachel Nichols
I was going to say, I can think of five or six other teams at least who wouldn't bring LeBron in. But that's his job, Rich, as the agent. That's what he's supposed to do, is create business. I do think though, this is the first time of LeBron's multiple free agencies where teams haven't been as willing to clear cap space or make big trades or do any of the other things. And I don't know. I don't know if Rich is just trying to get Anthony Davis, who is his other big client, to a market where they're more of a chance to win than Washington D.C. which is just sort of reviving itself, or if this is really a LeBron desire. But it'll be interesting. And frankly, the fact that a 41 year old can have at least four teams fighting over him at all and the entire NBA has. Have its business stopped because of this. Yeah, that's remarkable. So I'm not knocking it. I'm just saying it's. It's a different situation, certainly.
- [35:57]
Jason McIntyre
I'm just curious. You know, I don't know Rich Paul at all. I've never texted with him. Nothing. I don't know any. I. I've never even seen the guy anywhere. I don't think probably at a Laker game, he's going to come out of this either potentially looking like a visionary. Right. Hey, I started a podcast. I'm giving you guys the info. I'm Moving my guy LeBron, I'm moving ad all his clients get paid, whatever, or he's gonna look really, really bad. I think, Rachel, I mean, if LeBron goes somewhere and ends up with like 44 wins and can't get out of the first round of the playoffs, this is going to be one of the more poorly handled moments of LeBron's career. And I don't think he's going to accept it at his fault.
- [36:33]
Rachel Nichols
Right.
- [36:34]
Jason McIntyre
He owned the Russell Westbrook screw up, but this one, I don't know, bro. I don't know Rich Paul.
- [36:40]
Rachel Nichols
I don't think this is gonna be on Rich Paul. First of all, Rich Paul is engaged to Adele, so he's doing fine.
- [36:45]
Jason McIntyre
Is he really engaged to her? Yes.
- [36:47]
Rachel Nichols
And also he's self started one of the most successful agencies across all of sports.
- [36:52]
Jason McIntyre
Not just a decent head start, you know, he's good.
- [36:56]
Rachel Nichols
I also think that everybody knows this is LeBron's decision. It is Rich's job to make that decision work in the best, most advantageous way possible for LeBron. It's Rich's job to see that he has the tool around him he thinks he needs. It is secondarily Rich's job to get his other clients in good positions, which is maybe what we're talking about with this ad story. Nobody thinks Rich Paul is telling LeBron where to go play next year. Yeah. So I don't know. You tease. Lane Kiffin. Let's talk about him a little bit. You Know, it's very interesting here with Lane first season at lsu, although it feels like there's been so much controversy on his way in, he's been there longer and he's making some. Some meaningful changes. Jason Kiffin has been one of the football's biggest social media trolls over the years. Right. But he has been off social the last couple months. His last post on X was June 18th, and you can see it up here. He wrote the date May 11, 2026, which was supposedly the day he gave up social. Although if you're writing on X that you gave up social a month earlier, did you really give up social? Anyway, it's got like a Tiger and LeBron and Michael Jones. Jordan.
- [38:01]
Jason McIntyre
What's the Jordan quote?
- [38:03]
Rachel Nichols
There's a lot going on with this post. You can listen to him talking about these changes at SCC media days.
- [38:12]
Lane Kiffin
And so it's been really freeing because what you do at the end of the day is you don't compare anything. Kevin Oak, who speak to our team, you always say comparisons is the thief of joy. It's been pretty refreshing. It's been an interesting experience for me to see because I think whenever I ever move something, whether that was bad habits, whether that was food, whether that was alcohol, whether that was toxic relationships, now social media, anything that I've removed throughout life, once you remove it, you start to notice how many people are dependent on it.
- [38:43]
Rachel Nichols
He certainly looks healthier than he has in some time. And he's talked about in that press conference giving up alcohol, I believe, cutting exterior friendships out of his life that weren't healthy for him, and giving up social media, which he said it was a challenge from his son. I don't know. What do you think of Lane being a new man again?
- [39:03]
Jason McIntyre
I'm going to. I got to be careful what I say. Not a huge Lane Kiffin fan. I'll leave it at that. Hey, listen, I will say I would love to give up social media. You know, I'm sure you would, too.
- [39:15]
Rachel Nichols
I have at certain points. It's very healthy.
- [39:17]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah. Oh, it's amazing.
- [39:18]
Rachel Nichols
You know, you get back into things with this job and you have to. And. Yeah, you know, the good thing about being Lane Kiffin is there's something you really need to know. Someone on your staff will tell you so. I admire this. I admire healthy changes. I think all of that's great. But also, it's just kind of going to depend if he wins or not. Right? No one's going to care one way or the other. They play Ole Miss Relatively early, I think, of the first month of the schedule and the rest of that early schedule. Not bad, but it gets harder and harder as they go. So, again, everyone there at LSU is excited and ready to believe in him. Obviously, that's. That's why they hired him. Wow.
- [39:52]
Jason McIntyre
Bama, Texas, back to back.
- [39:53]
Rachel Nichols
We'll see what happens exactly.
- [39:55]
Jason McIntyre
Are they going to be 500 by the end of the season?
- [39:58]
Rachel Nichols
I think they may start 500.
- [40:01]
Jason McIntyre
Well, they're definitely going to end 500. Clemson. Go Clemson.
- [40:05]
Rachel Nichols
Yeah, we'll see what happens. All right. I want to get back to the NBA because after 13 years in Milwaukee, one NBA title, multiple MVPs, Giannis is starting, as we know, a new chapter with the Heat. However, on a podcast, the 31 year old superstar was very candid about the possibility of a return to Milwaukee, saying, quote, I hope when the Miami chapter closes, and I don't know when it will or if it will, and I don't know how many years I'll spend there, but I wish to return to Milwaukee if they'll have me. And look, Jason, I took this as nothing but totally genuine, right? I mean, we've seen this over and over again. Kevin Garnett went back to Minnesota after he spent some time in Boston winning the title. And Brooklyn, Yeah, he ended up there. Kyle Lowry just retired as a Raptor. A little different because he didn't play there. Dwyane Wade, as we know. I mean, if the Heat need an example, it's in their own hall of Fame. Like, Dwyane Wade played for Miami, ended up going other places. Chicago, Cleveland, and then came back home to Miami to finish his final career there. So this is not something that's only a Giannis thing. And I think it really reflects why it took him so long to figure out if he wanted to stay or go, because he really is very deeply rooted in that city. However, I wanted to ask you, if you're in the Heat locker room and he hasn't played a bounce of a ball yet, what do you think, hearing
- [41:24]
Jason McIntyre
this already, thinking about going back?
- [41:27]
Rachel Nichols
I don't know. I'm asking. Maybe they'll understand because again, Dwayne Wade did the same thing.
- [41:30]
Jason McIntyre
I don't know. I feel like he's just one of these guys who wants everybody to love him. You know, he basically asked to be traded without asking, right? Got his wish, and now he's like, well, I would love to go back there if they'll have me eventually. Just stop trying to please everybody. You know this, right? When you try to make everybody happy. You make nobody happy. I agree with you. Do whatever the hell you want. You know, like, I mean, maybe. Maybe don't go on a podcast or maybe don't say something dumb like that. Oh, I would love to return to Milwaukee. They just traded me. You know, I'm in Miami now. Well, let's go. Full systems. Go South Beach.
- [42:02]
Rachel Nichols
I don't know. I don't think this falls into that category for me. For me, this is just nice. This is just one actually genuine expression about how he feels like a nice guy about his old team. I do think sometimes he makes decisions or doesn't make decisions, hoping to be liked. He's certainly not the only one in the NBA.
- [42:19]
Jason McIntyre
You know what?
- [42:19]
Rachel Nichols
This, to me, feels genuine.
- [42:20]
Jason McIntyre
I would like to know what this Dame Lillard thing is. Did you track that online again? Being an idiot on social media, I saw Damian Lillard kind of pushing back on some stuff. It's almost like him and Giannis may have had a beef in Milwaukee. I don't know. I'm not spreading rumors.
- [42:35]
Rachel Nichols
I was gonna say that's nothing I've heard.
- [42:36]
Jason McIntyre
That's very presidential of me. I don't know. What do I know? I'm just spreading rumors.
- [42:41]
Ryan Paganetti
Yeah.
- [42:41]
Rachel Nichols
Anyways.
- [42:42]
Advertisement Voice
Yes.
- [42:43]
Rachel Nichols
I think. I think I haven't seen everything about the Dame. I saw one post about something, and it felt more like Dame was pushing back on a fan perception, but who knows? Look, it's gonna be very interesting with Giannis in Miami. We'll see if he's able to be successful. We'll see if he's playing alongside LeBron James. That might influence how long he stays there. Certainly both categories. But I personally, as someone who covered in Milwaukee quite a bit and saw the connection with those fans, his family's connection with the fans, the charity work that they did. His entire family is there, all of the brothers and the mom and the whole thing have lived there for years.
- [43:15]
Jason McIntyre
The Giannis movie on. I think it's on Disney, right? Awesome movie. Highly recommend it for the family. If you got kids under the age of 15 or whatever, watch it. Really enjoyed it.
- [43:24]
Rachel Nichols
So if you've seen it, you know, the way he feels about the city is genuine. So I took this as nothing but him being honest. And if I was in the Heat locker room, I would have zero problem with it. Again, they have their own example down the hall, literally, because Dwayne Wade's face is plastered all over the hallways there. But I just. I can see how some people. Some people have been taking an issue with it. And I didn't know if you would because sometimes you like to take issue. Jason, I'm not gonna lie.
- [43:48]
Jason McIntyre
All right, Rachel with the news.
- [43:51]
Fox Sports Radio Announcer
Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by The Herd lie news.
- [43:55]
Jason McIntyre
So we just heard Lane Kiffin talk. I think he's probably the villain in college football. Is there a new villain in the NBA? We'll talk about that next year on the Herd.
- [44:11]
Fox Sports Radio Announcer
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app plans can be a
- [44:21]
Advertisement Voice
maybe for people with chronic migraine 15
- [44:25]
or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more Botox Anabotulinum toxin a prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It prevents, on average, eight to nine headache days a month, versus six to seven for placebo. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Botox effects may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as trouble swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness can be signs of a life threatening condition. Those with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions like rash, breathing problems, dizziness, neck and injection site pain and headache. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions like als, Myasthenia gravis or Lambert Eaton syndrome and medicines like botulinum toxins, which may increase the risk of serious side effects.
- [45:28]
Make a plan and ask your doctor about Botox. Visit botoxchronicmigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX.
- [45:40]
Now more than ever, Americans need a laugh. Enter the Super Troopers to the rescue. Vermont's finest and most shockingly offensive mustachioed highway patrol officers return to the big screen in Super Troopers 3. More pullover pranks, more over the top shenanigans than ever. The latest installment of the cult comedy classic Rod Farva is the wildly over the top Indian engagement to Thorny sister spirals out of control debauchery, bachelor parties, a wedding that Thorny's desperate to stop and a dangerous drug smuggling ring all threaten the troops, friendship and future. Fill your liter of cola, grab your buds and roll up to the multiplex for Super Troopers 3 only in theaters August 7th.
- [46:19]
Get tickets.
- [46:20]
Meow.
- [46:21]
For any small business owner, there's a moment when you realize the next hire could be the difference between staying busy and actually growing the challenge is finding the right person without was time sorting through candidates who aren't the right fit. That's where Indeed Sponsored Jobs comes in, where a workplace chaos hits and you need somebody who can step in and make a difference. This is a job for Sponsored Jobs. It helps you put your job in front of candidates who match the criteria that matter most to you, whether it's skills, experience, certifications or location. And you're certainly not alone in using Indeed. Join the 3.3 million employers worldwide that use INDEED to connect with quality talent that fits their needs. That's millions of businesses turning to INDEED to help solve hiring challenges and find people who can drive results. Spend less time searching, more time actually interviewing candidates who check all the boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. Get your $75 sponsored job credit today@ Indeed.com podcast terms and conditions apply. Hiring now then, this is a job for INDEED Sponsor Jobs. Every day, American heroes put it all on the line to protect our freedoms, communities and families. And behind every folded flag and retired uniform is a family that carries the weight of their sacrifice. Folds of Honor steps in with educational scholarships for spouses and children of fallen or disabled military service members and first responders. The mission is life changing and monthly donations make it possible. Become a donor today@foldsofhonor.org to help meet their sacrifice with hope.
- [47:58]
Rachel Nichols
Saturday night is Baseball Night on Fox and this week the game's biggest superstars take center stage. Shohei Ohtani and the Dodgers battling Juan Soto and the Mets. Or you could get Mariners Rangers Saturday, 7pm Eastern only on Fox.
- [48:14]
Jason McIntyre
All right, longtime watchers of this show know I love, love me some Victor Wembanyama. Surely you guys watched him in year three eviscerate the league, take down the defending champion Thunder, who by the way, everybody had winning the title except for me. I had them beating okc and you gotta be terrified, right? Wemby basically has this league in a figure four leg lock for the next decade. Okay? I mean he's just unstoppable defensively he hasn't. He's just barely scraping the scratching the surface offensively. And he took down the Thunder. He was pretty good against the Knicks. Not great. I thought his coach was the biggest weakness on the team. But Wemby just ended up taking $51 million less 51 mil because he's worried that money is a big issue around the league when it comes to stars soaking it all up. His exact quote was the reality of today's NBA is that often the potential of teams is not fulfilled because of money. I just want to make sure that's not the case with us. So we've got Wemby taking over the league two summers ago. You guys remember him going toe to toe with Team USA in the Olympics in a masterful game. Steph Curry, it was obviously legendary in those Olympics. But Wemby's taking over basketball globally. That's obvious. And I am of the belief. Not everyone agrees that he became something of a villain with that elbow to Nas Reed. People were angry. Then you started seeing cut ups of Wemby against Isaiah Hartenstein against the Knicks. Is this guy dirty? Webby's a dirty player. He became a villain. Now, historically, anybody who faces the Knicks becomes a villain. Reggie Miller, Trey Young, just because of the Madison Square Garden situation. But I think Wemby's becoming a villain in the NBA. Not everyone agrees. And if he comes around offensively, I think it's game over. Guys, he was in Year three, and I know other players have taken less money before. Famously, Jalen Brunson recently left 113 mil on the table. Love me some Brunson, okay? He was not in the stratosphere of potential star. That wembanyama is. For Wembanyama to do this this early, it's terrifying. Tim Duncan did it later in his career. Dirk did it later in his career. Wemby's in year three. Guys, he's 22 years old. If you want to go look up best players in the history of the NBA before age 23, like, LeBron's up there, and Wemby's right there. What he's done is incredible. And we had Al Harrington on talking about what Wemby could do offensively to get even better.
- [50:58]
Rachel Nichols
I think that this summer, you know, he needs to, you know, continue to work with some of the greats. You know, one of the guys that I would specifically think that he should go work out with is a guy like Dirk Nowitzki to kind of help him figure out a post shot that he can guarantee. Know that 100 out of 100 times will he get to this spot and get the ball right here, he's going to score that basketball. You know, at the end of the day, the kid is very raw offensively. And that's just. That's just the reality that we all kind of have to deal with. And it's because he's young. He's 22 years old. Wait till he's 25. When he's 25, oh, my God. I don't think anybody's going to want to see him. And I don't care how much he weighs.
- [51:32]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah, and remember, Wemby is around. He's. This guy's smart, okay? He plays a lot of chess. He just seems like a very articulate, level headed young man. And that's crazy because he's so good so early. And he's wealthy beyond belief. We know he's got a big sneaker contract coming up. And I believe Wemby looked around the league the last few years and was like, wait. Jokic ain't gonna take less. He's watching Denver get taken apart. Hold up, hold up. Wait a minute. The Celtics won the title with homegrown talent and now they're scrambling money wise and they're about to lose a bunch of folks and wait, OKC a more homegrown talent and their rotation is just getting taken apart because of money? Well, shucks, I'll take less. I want to keep Castle. I don't want this Fox contract to be in albatross. Remember when the spurs lost the finals to the Knicks and de' Aaron Fox was not very good? Fine, he was bad. He was blamed a lot. The first thing. Oh, well, wait, wait. Wait till the Fox contract kicks in. It's so bad. Go look at it. Now that Wemby has left 51mil on the table, it ain't that bad. They're going to be fine. They absorb that contract, they'll eventually have to pay. Castle Harper was a rookie. I don't think people are fully grasping just how dangerous what Wemby did is to the rest of the league. And that's why I believe he is becoming a villain. And if you look, it's interesting. Who's the villain in Major League Baseball? The Dodgers. Who's their superstar? An international guy, Shohei Ohtani. What did he do? Restructured his contract to give the Dodgers a competitive advantage. What is Wemby doing after year three and getting to the finals? Restructuring his deal in a way that nobody anticipated. To keep his team competitively ahead of everyone else. Listen, I don't think Wemby has villain tendencies. The elbow obviously looks otherwise the elbow to Nas Reed, which was pretty bad. But I do think people are going to look at him as like, damn, screw this guy. Remember, when you get to the top, all anybody wants to do is knock you down. And I think we're headed there with Wemby. I'm a fan. I just don't know about everybody else around the league. All right, coming up next, our number three on the herd super bowl tears. Oh yeah, we got some surprises for you. That's next.
- [53:58]
Advertisement Voice
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- [55:02]
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Tarika Foster Brasby
Hey everybody, I'm Tarika Foster Brasby. What's up y'?
- [55:39]
Advertisement Voice
All?
- [55:39]
Tarika Foster Brasby
I'm your girl, Sheryl Swoops. When you tune in to a new episode of our podcast, Levels to this, you're definitely gonna get some spy CWNBA analysis. But we're more than just hoops and the real conversation is what we actually bring. It's been really, really cool seeing kind of these women just really step into their power off the court and understand that they are basketball, right? And they're not asking for permission. Listen to Levels to this with Sheryl Swoopes and Tareka Foster brasby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.