THE HERD - Hour 2 - Luka Doncic’s 60 point performance is more impressive than you think

Summary

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The Herd with Colin Cowherd (Guest Host: Jason McIntyre)

Hour 2 – Luka Doncic’s 60-Point Performance, NBA MVP Race, and Giannis’ Milwaukee Future

Date: March 20, 2026

Guests: Rachel Nichols, Derrick Queen

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Episode Overview

In this compelling Hour 2 of The Herd, Jason McIntyre fills in for Colin Cowherd alongside guest Rachel Nichols. The conversation centers on Luka Doncic’s astonishing 60-point game, a spirited and nuanced breakdown of the shifting NBA MVP race, and critical NBA news—most notably, the Milwaukee Bucks facing a crossroads with Giannis Antetokounmpo’s future. Special guest Derrick Queen, New Orleans Pelicans rookie, joins to talk about his first NBA season and shares unique insights from inside an up-and-coming young team. The hosts also touch on NCAA tournament upsets, World Baseball Classic buzz, and media narratives around NBA stars like LeBron James.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Luka Doncic’s Historic 60-Point Night & MVP Case

[04:53]–[11:44]

• Jason McIntyre vigorously argues that Luka Doncic is the current frontrunner for NBA MVP after his back-to-back scoring explosion, including a 60-point game less than 24 hours after a 40-point outing.
  • “I’m going to show you some stats that are going to blow your mind comparing SGA to other guys on this list… Luka legend. His stats this month are staggering... He had 40 on Wednesday and less than 24 hours later he had 60 guys.” (05:38–06:40)
• Jason’s updated MVP rankings (lowest to highest):
  5. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (SGA)
  4. Nikola Jokic
  3. Jaylen Brown
  2. Victor Wembanyama
  1. Luka Doncic
• He points to team dynamics when their stars are absent—most notably, how the Lakers flounder without Luka (highest usage and most pronounced impact).
• Notable criticism from Rachel Nichols regarding Luka’s defensive effort in the regular season:
  • “There isn’t a question though that for a big chunk of the season he decides not to play defense...with a bunch of these other guys, Wemby, SGA—they are two-way players. It does matter what you do on the other end.” — Rachel Nichols [10:04]
• Lively debate over the MVP landscape, with Rachel noting it’s really between SGA, Luka, and Wemby.

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2. Interview: Derrick Queen, New Orleans Pelicans Rookie

[11:44]–[18:38]

• Derrick Queen reflects on his rookie season with maturity and optimism. He’s loving New Orleans, likening it to his Baltimore roots in its vibe and people.
  • “[New Orleans is] close to Baltimore—everything’s so close, food is good, people say southern hospitality, that’s good.” — Derrick Queen [12:45]
• Describes the young Pelicans’ roster dynamic and veteran leadership:
  • “We actually got one old guy, DeAndre, but we all like—they still got years in this, teach us a lot...been fun learning from guys that’s older than me, but kind of all in the same age bracket.” — [13:41]
• Gives high praise to Zion Williamson both on and off the court:
  • “Every game he got me on the bench shaking my head…he funny…and a great vet…he tell us the real about the team, the league, and how he got through it.” — [14:40]
• On matching up with Wembanyama:
  • “You have to keep him out the paint or he’ll probably go dunk on you...very tough matchup.” — [15:37]
• Friendly talk about trash talk (he doesn’t get much unless he initiates it himself) and team goals (vision for Pelicans improving and making playoff leaps soon).
• Prediction for the finals:
  • “I actually do like the Spurs,” and for the East, “probably say the Celtics. So the Spurs and Celtics.” — [18:22]

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3. NBA News: Giannis’ Contract & Milwaukee’s Ownership Dilemma

[27:09]–[34:48]

• [Rachel Nichols] details reporting from Ramona Shelburne on the Bucks’ troublesome ownership structure and Giannis’ murky future:
  • Bucks can’t afford to lose Giannis for nothing; owner says, “Either Giannis is going to sign an extension or we’re going to trade him.” — [27:12]
  • The team’s leadership is split between two equal owners who rotate decision-making, leading to league-wide confusion about who’s actually in charge.
    • “They’re not even close to being ready to make a decision like that.” — Rachel quoting team source [28:34]
• Golden State reportedly offered four unprotected first-rounders for Giannis—a massive, but arguably short-sighted, offer.
• Lively, speculative discussion about what Giannis’ trade value is at 31 years old, with mounting injuries—can the Bucks get a true “haul”? Rachel argues, “Teams are always more desperate around the trade deadline… should they have moved him earlier?”
• Possibilities for suitors (Knicks, Lakers, Magic, Thunder, Spurs) and how control over where he goes shifts as his contract enters its final year:
  • “By waiting until his contract was expiring, Giannis now has a huge say in where he goes.” — Rachel Nichols [32:44]

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4. NBA: LeBron’s Role and the Media Critique

[34:48]–[38:02]

• Jason and Rachel assess LeBron James’ recent red-hot play, with 49 points on 21-26 shooting across two games, and LeBron pushing back on narratives that the Lakers might be better off without him.
  • “No one is more criticized than LeBron for reasons that I don’t understand…he’s been an ambassador for the league…everywhere he goes, he wins.” — Jason McIntyre [37:01]
• Rachel:
  • “The question is not whether a team is better or worse with LeBron on it. It’s whether LeBron is willing to fulfill the role that he is clearly now willing to fill in just the last couple weeks of the season…” — [35:27]
• The complexity of veteran stars sharing the ball and adjusting roles as they age.

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5. Other Notable Sports Stories

World Baseball Classic Ratings & NCAA Tournament Cinderella Upsets
[25:06]–[26:52]; [44:25]–[46:16]

• World Baseball Classic:
  • Massive surge in ratings (11 million for final), with players like Kiké Hernández and Aaron Judge suggesting it means more than a World Series to them. “[Winning a Baseball Classic title] would mean more to him than winning the World Series...This is a guy who has been to five World Series and won three of them.” — Rachel Nichols [25:06]
• NCAA Basketball:
  • High Point’s upset over Wisconsin and the broken non-conference scheduling model is lamented.
  • Coach Flynn Clayman criticized the lack of opportunity for smaller schools: “We won 22 of our last 23 games, didn’t move up one spot in the metrics, not one...It’s a bad system, but that’s how it is.” — Jason McIntyre [45:41]
  • Rachel suggests solutions might involve de-emphasizing strength of schedule as a metric.

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6. Bam Adebayo’s 83 vs. Luka’s 60: Which Was More Impressive?

[48:02]–[53:59]

• Jason frames Luka’s 60 as more impressive than Bam’s 83 because it came on a back-to-back, was efficient, and in a high-stakes context with no gimmick fouling or “stat-chasing.”
• Rachel’s perspective:
  • “If it was easy, everyone would do it...It is hard no matter how he got it...But do I think Luka is eventually capable of scoring more than 83 in a game? Yes.” — [50:47], [53:20]
• Fun, competitive banter about whether stars around the league are tracking each other’s point totals and vying for the next “big one.”

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7. MVP Balloting & Criteria

[53:59]–[55:44]

• Rachel explains the ranked voting system (top-five), and how factors like team record and games played weigh in—citing last year’s tight SGA/Jokic race, where team wins swayed the outcome.
  • “Winning—if it’s certainly...not always the most important thing, but it certainly is a tiebreaker and it is a very important thing.” — Rachel Nichols [55:22]
• Discussion of SGA’s slightly diminished numbers and durability in comparison to last year.

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “Luka legend. His stats this month are staggering...He had 40 on Wednesday and less than 24 hours later he had 60, guys.”
  — Jason McIntyre [06:40]

• “There isn’t a question though that for a big chunk of the season he decides not to play defense...Wemby, SGA—they are two-way players. It does matter what you do on the other end.”
  — Rachel Nichols [10:04]

• “By waiting until his contract was expiring, Giannis now has a huge say in where he goes...right now it’s an expiring contract. If you trade for him in an expiring contract, you’re probably not going to give up four first-round drafts.”
  — Rachel Nichols [32:44]

• “No player that good I have ever seen in my career criticized as much [as LeBron James]...for him to be able to sort of look in people’s faces and go, ‘How you like me now?’ It’s kind of fun.”
  — Rachel Nichols [38:02]

• “If it was easy, everyone would do it...So it is hard no matter how he got it.”
  — Rachel Nichols [50:48]

• "[About NCAA upsets] That’s just how it works. There’s zero incentive for the big dogs to play the small guy.”
  — Jason McIntyre [46:16]

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Key Timestamps

• [04:53] Jason McIntyre reveals his MVP list; deep dive into candidate evaluation.
• [10:04] Rachel Nichols pushes back on Luka’s MVP case regarding defense.
• [11:44] Derrick Queen joins the show — insight into rookie year, Pelicans culture, Zion, and Wemby.
• [27:09] Rachel breaks down the Giannis/Bucks contract extension and ownership saga.
• [34:48] Discussion on LeBron’s role, criticism, and team impact.
• [45:41] High Point’s coach critiques NCAA scheduling & Cinderella runs.
• [48:02] Luka’s 60 vs. Bam’s 83-point game — contextualizing greatness.
• [53:59] MVP balloting, games played, and statistical nuance for SGA/Luka.

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Tone & Style

The conversation blends smart, analytical sports talk with humor, candor, and occasional playful jabs—especially between Jason and Rachel as they contest opinions and dissect narratives. Derrick Queen brings a calm, earnest rookie perspective, contrasting with the hosts’ veteran media banter.

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This episode is essential listening for NBA fans following the MVP debate and the evolving power landscape, and sports lovers tracking tournament surprises and superstars’ narratives.

Transcript

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[Derrick Queen]

Now let's get this party started.

[Jason McIntyre]

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio, our number two here on the Herd. Weeks just flying by. Unbelievable. Jason McIntyre in for Colin Cowherd. He has checked in by the way. He stopped ghosting me. I didn't reply on purpose. You know I'm gonna act cool like hey, I can't reply instantly so I'm waiting a day. Don't. Don't tell me. Joined by Rachel Nichols, who knows about texting. You don't instantly text back to everybody.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, you never double text, right?

[Jason McIntyre]

Really? Is that a rule?

[Rachel Nichols]

If you're, if you're, if like you, you are in a relationship with someone, which is apparently you and Colin, you don't want to be like hey how's it going? And then if they don't answer you, be like hey, how's it going again? Or be, you know, or whatever. So my friends who are in dating situations always say, you know, don't double text. If the guy doesn't answer you, he doesn't answer you. Don't then go back because that looks very desperate. So don't double text.

[Jason McIntyre]

Jason we should start a podcast about dating etiquette. Even though we're both married.

[Rachel Nichols]

I was gonna say, I mean I

[Jason McIntyre]

know, I know some single people.

[Rachel Nichols]

I know nothing about current dating market.

[Jason McIntyre]

I hear dating in LA is very difficult.

[Rachel Nichols]

I mean I think dating in general these days is difficult.

[Jason McIntyre]

What do I know, by the way? What do you know? Either neither know anything, nothing about dating, but I do know a little bit about NBA MVP awards, folks. He's on such a heater. I figure we gotta recalibrate the MVP now. I don't have a vote. Rachel does. So I'm gonna go five to one. NBA MVP candidates. Now, I know there's a straw poll out there that says SGA is a lockdown. Balderdash. Things change, results adjust. Matters. Let's go. Let's start with number five. Number five, sga. I know everybody thinks he's number one. No, he's not. How is he number one? Has he gotten better than last year? Like, he's a big favorite. Minus 1,000, but, you know, that's. I'm an underdog.

[Rachel Nichols]

Better.

[Jason McIntyre]

Listen. Yes, they have the best record in the NBA. Yes, SGA's immensely talented and Grady's hit a couple game winners. But. But they also have, like, the best roster in the league by a mile. And wait until the very end because I'm going to show you some stats that are going to blow your mind comparing SGA to other guys on this list. All right, let's go, SGA 5. Who's next? Number four, Nikola Jokic. You know, Denver's taken a bit of a step back, obviously. No, Aaron Gordon for a long stretch has hurt Nikola Jokic for it's not a slight. He's been amazing. But Denver's also sixth in the West. If he were amazing, wouldn't they be third? Maybe they will end up third and he'll rise up the charts. But I. SGA 5. And again I have Jokic 4. And things are changing. Things are evolving. In the last two weeks, a lot has changed. The odds, by the way, have shifted significantly. And that's why I have Jokic four, number three. I'm going Jaylen Brown, guys. Yeah, you like that? Jalen Brown has been playing like that this year. I think we have some sound from him on the Celtics coming up later in the show. That's just extraordinary. I like Jaylen Brown a lot. I like a little flex that he was working out at my gym leading up to the draft. And I watched a lengthy line, shall we say, of NBA GM's role in. I'm like, for Jaylen Brown, I didn't think he was this guy. He's him. I mean, Jaylen Brown is really carrying Boston without Tatum all season. They're the biggest surprise in the East. I mean, we knew Detroit would be improved. Nobody thought Boston would be top two without Jason Tatum. Congrats to Jaylen Brown, number two. I'm going with Victor Wembanyama. Victor Big Vic, the man, the Myth the legend. As Tyron Armstead just told us, as Rachel's told us, he's going to own this league for a decade. I think everybody would agree the guy's just extraordinary. I love watching him. He's become a must watch for me in the league. For the longest time, Steph Curry was that man. And then it was kind of, well, LeBron was right there and, and Luka's up there. You know, some of the guys are this like Jokic for me is that, oh my gosh, Jokic is playing. I got to turn on the tv. SGA is certainly not Victor Wembanyama. Hell yeah. Check it in at number two on the MVP list. Number one. Let's hear it for Luka. Luka legend. His stats this month are staggering. He is absolutely off the charts. He had 40 on Wednesday and less than 24 hours later he had 60 guys. I mean, he's averaging 39 points per game on the second leg of back to backs this season. 39. But I was told he's an old 27 and he doesn't dunk anymore. The guy hit nine threes last night. He's unbelievable. There's just too many accolades for me to get into here for Luka. But I have Luka number one. He is my MVP vote as of right now. The, the fictitious vote that I don't have. But that's my list. I know you probably don't like it. Real quick, here's JJ Redick on Luka's 60 point performance last night. We're whatever we are, 20 games over.500 and obviously he's missed time, LeBron's missed time, AR's missed, you know, he's to the MVP point. Like we would not be anywhere near in the position we're in without him having the season that he's having. He's just, you know, and particularly of late, he's. He's dominating right now. Right here's the stat that I teased earlier. I know you guys that they're going to social media, team's going to put this on and I'm going to get roasted. I don't care. I want to show you these stats of the team records without these five players. Are you ready for this? This is jaw dropping stuff. So essentially you pull the star out. How does the team perform? Let's see it on the screen. Oh, would you look at that. OKC is just fine without sga. Lakers little less so. The Jalen Brown one shocked me. The Jokic one surprised me as kind of sort of did the Wemby one. Now a lot of this is contextual, right? Like who are we playing? Did Wemby's spurs, did they rest him because they were playing the, you know, the Sacramento Kings or the Pacers or another tanking team. So it kind of matters. But the fact that the Lakers without Luka struggle, I know he has the highest usage rate, shows me that without a doubt I have Luka soaring to the top of my list now. We got a great guest coming up here in a minute. Rachel, I'm just curious, do you think I'm crazy or stupid or both? For Luka, number one, I think it's

[Rachel Nichols]

a good thing you don't have an MVP vote.

[Jason McIntyre]

Oh, come on. I mean Silver watches this show.

[Rachel Nichols]

I'm just saying, even, even that stat you just put up there, Luka, a number of the. He missed. Austin Reeves also missed. So you're just not taking all of that into account. I wouldn't, I wouldn't judge that stat so much. Look, I think what Luka Doncic is doing is incredible. It goes all the way back to the trade of how dumb it was of the Mavericks to get get rid of this guy. I mean it just still makes no sense. I think he is absolutely the Lakers future. There isn't a question though that for a big chunk of the season he decides not to play defense. Now I will always tell people when Luka wants to play defense in the playoffs, he absolutely will. He's never going to be a lockdown defender, but he definitely can hold his own. And we saw that as the Mavericks made their run to the title. But he doesn't do it for a big chunk of the season. That's a decision on his part. And with a bunch of these other guys, Wemby, sga, they are two way players. It does matter what you do on the other end of the court. So I think that SGA is not fifth again, probably good, you don't have a vote. And it's really going to be a race between sga, Luka and Wemby.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, the other thing, watching these Luka highlights, he had nine threes last night. So sga, the mid range is just unbelievable. You know, it's impossible to stop the Jokic high arcing three. Luka's moves to set up his three look slow. I just keep asking myself how can nobody defend that or get block his shot more. It's unbelievable.

[Rachel Nichols]

Luka's footwork is one of the best in the NBA and in a long time Luka and Jokic have the best footwork I have seen in a like a decade or plus.

[Jason McIntyre]

So speaking of great footwork, our next guest of the New Orleans Pelicans has amazing footwork. Derek Queen, first year in the NBA, former Maryland Terrapin legend. Fair. Fair to say. What's up, Derek? How you doing, my man?

[Derrick Queen]

I'm doing good. How you doing?

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, thanks a lot. Derek joining us, celebrating an awesome first year with the Pelicans. Listen, you're a young guy. You're in the league. I'm just curious. Big picture, is the NBA what you thought it would be so far as a rookie?

[Derrick Queen]

I actually get that question a lot. I think so. I didn't really have like a big idea of what it was going to be. And it's been great. It's been. Got great bets, been around a great staff and had a lot of fun this year.

[Jason McIntyre]

I can only imagine it's tough going to a new city, brand new team, I guess. How have you liked New Orleans? I spent some time there. It seems like a really fun city.

[Derrick Queen]

Yeah. Yeah, New Orleans is. I actually love it. I think it's close to Baltimore. Where I'm from. Everything's so close. The food is good, people say Southern hospitality. That's good. And there's a few things to do here.

[Jason McIntyre]

Sounds awesome. So now you're joining us, courtesy of Dairy Queen. What are you working with Dairy Queen doing?

[Derrick Queen]

Yeah, it's just a partnership that, that, that everybody just basically wanted. I wanted the. The fans wanted and me just promoting the. That Buster Bar trees.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. Dq, obviously. Dairy Queen, great spot. I'm just curious. So the Pelicans have one of the youngest rosters in the league. You guys are incredibly young. What's that like? You know, you're a vocal leader. You were a leader at Maryland. I'm just. What's it like in that locker room with a lot of young guys?

[Derrick Queen]

Yeah, we actually got One old guy, DeAndre, but, but, but we all like, like they still got years in this in the NBA. They all know what they talking about. So they all just keep us like three best. Like I said, they teach us a lot, help us get how to get through tough times. Like we asked about games or personnel or something like that. And we also asked about the city. So. So, like, it's been fun learning from guys that's older than me, but kind of all in the same age bracket, but still, like, I still respect them. They still great vets and just. And just keep learning from them.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. Let me ask you about Zion Williamson. I Assume that he's the guy you get most questions about. Herb Jones is awesome player, love him. But people probably ask a million things about Zion. I guess tell the audience something about Zion Williamson. Maybe they don't know.

[Derrick Queen]

I mean, like, every game he got me. He got me on a bench just shaking my head because it's like crazy how, like, how athletic, how he maneuvered in the air. I like how like, tall and big he is. But one thing they don't know about is I don't look. He funny and he's. He actually like. He actually like a great bet. Like people might see, like, whatever the case may be, but like, he actually. Actually help us out a lot. He tell us. He tell us the real about. About the team, the. The lead and, And. And how he like, got through it and how he becoming like one of the best players.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, he. Amazing talent as. As long as he's healthy, he's a major factor. We showed some Wemby highlights earlier. I am curious, have you had to match up with Wembanyama yet? What's that experience like? I've never seen a player like him. There's never been anything like him in the NBA. But was he the toughest guard for you this year?

[Derrick Queen]

Yeah, probably. Probably one of them. He just, like. He don't see a contest. You have to like. Like, you have to like, keep him out of the paint because he probably go dunk on. You just gotta be physical with him. It's a very tough matchup, but he gonna be one of the best. And I'm trying to be one of the best, so. Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. Have you had a lot, you know, being a rookie, have you had a lot of guys try to talk trash to you this season? You know, maybe taking some jabs? I know the league guy like Luka Doncic last night talking to fans in Houston this week. Do you get a lot of trash talk as a rookie?

[Derrick Queen]

No, because I don't really. Sometimes. It depends how I'm feeling. Sometimes I talk some trash. I started, but I don't really get a lot of trash talk.

[Jason McIntyre]

I know, obviously you had a famous moment in the March Madness NCAA Tournament last year. I guess circling back to that, like going back a year ago, do you still remember it vividly? Still talk to your teammates about it? I mean, that was really one of the great moments in the tourney last year.

[Derrick Queen]

Yeah, I still talk to my teammates, but we don't talk about it no more. Like we all onto other things split up, but we are. But one thing we do talk about is like, we all want to reunite. I think they all will come to New Orleans one day.

[Jason McIntyre]

Try to get your teammates to. Yeah. To hang. It seems like a great city. I am curious. Obviously you guys aren't playoff bound this year, but, like, do you think it's going to be difficult to turn it around? Some of these teams, a lot of teams at Utah Jazz, like, the conference is brutal. Do you think you guys can make the leap next year or are you more like two years away?

[Derrick Queen]

Yeah, most definitely. Just finish this year off strong. Everybody just gotta stay healthy. We all gonna get better. We already believe in each other and we're just gonna keep on getting better, keep trusting each other once, like I said, and just finish the year off.

[Jason McIntyre]

Sean, I guess we could wrap up. Derek, let me just ask. Based on everybody you've seen and faced this year, who do you expect to come out of the west and come out of the east and meet in the NBA Finals?

[Derrick Queen]

I'm not, I'm not sure it's low key, difficult this year.

[Jason McIntyre]

Wait, what makes it difficult?

[Derrick Queen]

Like, I, I feel like some teams might surprise some other teams. I don't, I don't know. Me and my teammates was talking about this. We have a lot of opinions, but I'm not sure who. I'm not sure of me like who I think gonna come out this year.

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean, the Thunder are favored. You know, the spurs are right there. I think the Lakers are. Sometimes it's just who's hot late. And the Lakers are the hottest team in the west right now.

[Derrick Queen]

I actually do like the Spurs. I like the spurs. And then the East, I'm not really sure. I probably say the Celtics. So the spurs and Celtics.

[Jason McIntyre]

Spurs, Celtics. Interesting. All right. Derrick Queen, the young center for the New Orleans Pelicans. Thanks a lot, Derek. Good luck the rest of the season, man.

[Derrick Queen]

Thank you.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, Derek Queen, March legend for the Maryland Terrapins. And then he's become something of an online maven this year that people love him in New Orleans.

[Rachel Nichols]

Oh, he's. He's been fantastic. And it's a shame because the trade that ended up with New Orleans picking him, it frankly wasn't a very smart trade for the Pelicans front office. But that has nothing to do with Derrick Queen. Yeah, right. He has been a really great bright spot for them. And it's just, I think that people will move on from the trade aspect of it soon because he's just, he's a really fun player. And I'm not at all biased because I'm also from Maryland.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yes, obviously, the DMV representing. All right, coming up next, a big story I'm told, just dropped on Giannis future in Milwaukee. Rachel has all the details. That's next. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9aM Pacific. Hey, this is Jason McIntyre. Join me every weekday morning on my podcast, Straight fire with Jason McIntyre. This isn't your typical sports pod, pushing the same tired narratives down your throat every day. Straight Fire gives you honest opinions on all the biggest sports headlines, accurate stats to help you win big at the sportsbook, and all the best guess. Do yourself a favor and listen to Straight fire with Jason McIntyre on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Announcer]

Eczema isn't always obvious, but it's real. And so is the relief from Ebglis. After an initial dosing phase, about 4 in 10 people taking EBGLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year, with monthly dosing.

[Pharmaceutical Advertiser]

EBGLIS Lebricizumab LBKZ a 250mg per 2ml injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals, or who cannot use topical therapies. Ebglis can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to Ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglis. Before starting Epglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection searching for real relief.

[Podcast Announcer]

Ask your doctor about epglis and visit epglis.lilly.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

Support for the show comes from public. If you look at your investing app, what do you see? An Interface stuck in 1997 or something that looks modern but feels more like a casino than a place to build wealth. Public is different. It's the investing platform platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build your portfolio for the long haul. Stocks, options, bonds, crypto. It's all there. But what really makes Public different is the technology behind it. Imagine starting your day with an AI summarized market briefing, getting clear summaries of earnings calls the moment they end, or turning any idea into an investable index just by typing a prompt. This is what investing looks like when the tools finally catch up. Go to public.com and earn a 1% uncapped match when you transfer your portfolio. Public Investing for those who take it seriously Ad paid for by Public Holdings Brokerage services by Public Investing member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors SEC Registered Advisor crypto services by ZeroHash all investing involves risk of loss. See complete [e-mail] disclosures ever wonder how

[Martha Stewart]

to make hosting look effortless? Here's a secret. When prepping for cooking and baking, get ahead of the mess with new Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper. Just lightly wet the counter so the paper grips. Lay it down and drips and spills stay on the paper, not on your counter. Cleanup is as simple as lifting it away to reveal clean counters. Effortless it is thanks to Reynolds Kitchen's countertop prep paper. Wet it, set it, prep it, done. Available in the Reynolds Wrap aisle at Walmart.

[Commercial Voice]

Innovation is what gets your business to the big leagues, and Wasabi is designed to give every business a shot at competition. Break free from skyrocketing storage costs, unpredictable egress fees from old and top heavy legacy providers. You know the big guys. Wasabi is the world's hottest cloud storage company and the go to provider for professional and collegiate sports teams and leagues around the world. And here's why. Innovation from Wasabi's AI enabled intelligent media storage, Wasabi Air to the industry's only cloud storage service. With triple protection against cybercriminals, data deletion and ransomware, Wasabi has taken the lead in big league data storage. Remember, Wasabi is up to 80% less than the other guys and doesn't charge a cent for businesses to access their own data. Wasabi is another championship story. Check them out. [e-mail], wasabi Hot Cloud Storage Proud partner of the Voluum Podcast Network.

[Podcast Host]

I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod. Say hi Dan.

[Dan Morgan]

Hey, how's it going today?

[Podcast Host]

It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.

[Dan Morgan]

I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law firm.

[Podcast Host]

That's pretty awesome. I think I saw a billboard of yours recently that said 20 billion one 20 billion is an insane number.

[Dan Morgan]

Yeah, 20 billion recovered. It's actually, I think somewhere north, probably closer to 22, 23 after this year. And each year we get bigger and badder and our army grows. So the number will hopefully keep getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.

[Podcast Host]

Awesome. So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan, what would I do if I got into an accident?

[Dan Morgan]

Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. We are always open or a call center is always waiting to take your call. 247 365.

[Rachel Nichols]

Wow.

[Podcast Host]

Dan Morgan from Morgan and Morgan, America's largest injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the show.

[Dan Morgan]

Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office near you.

[Jason McIntyre]

Thanks to Derrick Queen, the young kid from the New Orleans Pelicans joining the show. Dq, Herb Jones, Zion Williamson. They should be better next year assuming they keep everybody together. All right, let's go to Rachel with the news. No, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herdline news.

[Rachel Nichols]

Jason, the ratings are in for the World Baseball Classic and they are eye popping. Seriously. The tournament rated twice than the previous timeout. Twice as much. Nearly 11 million people tuned into the championship game alone. And just the buzz around the whole thing was just enormous. Really remarkable. Remember Aaron Judge said the atmosphere of these games was more hype than it is for a World Series. And the Dodgers, Kiki Hernandez, this quote really stuck out to me. He said that winning a Baseball Classic title would mean more to him than winning the World Series. This is a guy who has been to five World Series and won three of them. So you can't say, oh, you know, people with Aaron Judge, there's a little bit of like, oh, he's never won a World Series, that sort of thing. This is a guy who has won plenty of World Series, frankly, because it's

[Jason McIntyre]

only every three years and there's a World Series every year. And maybe he's spoiled being on the dialogue. That's it.

[Rachel Nichols]

It's a pretty big, bold, bold claim. But I think part of it is, and that's why this tournament was so energizing and so many people tuned in. I mean, I was transfixed by this thing on tv. The vibe from those games, the crowds, the players and the way they got so excited about things, they made it feel important. They made it feel like this was the most important thing in the world to them. You saw how the Venezuelan players celebrated afterward the interview. Right. That we saw immediately post game on here on Fox. Like, I just. I think that the way a lot of these Latin American countries feel about winning something like this for their country translated to our country and the number of people who tuned in the ratings were twice as good as the last time out. I mean, that's pretty crazy.

[Jason McIntyre]

So when Kiki Hernandez says that, I'm

[Rachel Nichols]

like, you've won the World Series three times.

[Jason McIntyre]

Aaron Judge said something similar. I'm looking on his resume, doesn't have a World Series.

[Rachel Nichols]

Not to win. He's not one.

[Derrick Queen]

One.

[Rachel Nichols]

No.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Rachel Nichols]

Did play him one good.

[Jason McIntyre]

Interesting.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah. That Giannis story you mentioned.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yes.

[Rachel Nichols]

Right before the break, Ramona Shelburne just dropped an in depth piece on Giannis, who, as of right now, if he just stayed with the Bucks through next season, he would be playing on an expiring contract. Which of course brings up the point. What do you do about that? Bucs owner Wes Edens is quoted in the piece saying that given that they can't afford to let that happen, they can't afford to let him play it out and then have him walk away and get nothing. He says either Giannis is going to sign an extension or we're going to trade him. Right. But here's the wrinkle that makes this complicated, because that's just common wisdom in the NBA. But the Bucs have this super unique ownership structure. They've got two owners that are equal partners, and they rotate who makes the decisions. And so other teams have said during this whole sort of trade deadline issue, they don't even know who they're dealing with. And then here is a quote. This is a source with knowledge of the team's operations that says whether they do go ahead and trade Giannis is more of a matter of which owner ends up making the final call. The quote is this has nothing to do with Giannis and whether he asks out. It's about who's making the decision on whether to trade Giannis. And I don't think anyone knows who's making that call. I deal with them all the time, and honestly, it depends on the day. They're not even close to being ready to make a decision like that.

[Jason McIntyre]

So the weird. I read it and it sounds like Ramona sat down with both owners. Yes.

[Rachel Nichols]

At the same time.

[Jason McIntyre]

So they're saying it's not a problem, right?

[Rachel Nichols]

Yes, correct.

[Jason McIntyre]

But everyone who deals with them said it's a problem like that is not great. So I wonder, is this a signal to Giannis? Hey, pooper, get off the pot, buddy. Do you want our extension?

[Martha Stewart]

Or no.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, there's also a lot of discussion about how to handle the situation. And that's another way that the two ownership. So you can either just offer him the extension, right. And if he doesn't sign it, you trade him. You can trade him anyway, not offer the extension. Because here is a guy who has had multiple leg injuries in recent years. He's kind of, you know, will he or won't he?

[Jason McIntyre]

31 years old. I think that's relevant.

[Rachel Nichols]

And the offers were good. I mean, Golden State offered the Bucks four unprotected first round draft picks. That is a crazy number. Completely unprotected.

[Jason McIntyre]

But wait, wait, with Giannis and Steph, those are going to be back of the first round and you get no players? They don't have any players.

[Rachel Nichols]

I mean, so I think the idea was to throw in a couple players and the fact that the players weren't good enough was part of the reason they didn't take them. But I'm sorry, four unprotected first round picks.

[Jason McIntyre]

Let me ask, so what if the Orlando Magic were like, fine, we can. We'll offer you three firsts and Paolo Banchero, a guy who is a really good player, all star, Olympian caliber, and you're not going to bottom out. You at least have someone that the people can go watch. Would you rather get a player and picks or just a boatload of picks?

[Rachel Nichols]

I mean, I think they feel that to keep selling tickets, they need to get a player in picks that they can't completely bottom out, that they need to be able to maintain a winning sensibility. I mean, the other way to play it, if you do go the extension route, is to make a big deal of it to your fans. Be like, we want Giannis. Here we are offering an extension. It's, you know, $300 million. Basically, he gets to decide if he wants to play here or not. And if they go that direction, you are putting that pressure back on Giannis instead of being like, oh, we have to trade him, but who's making that decision is so fascinating.

[Jason McIntyre]

So you would know this better than I. Is it they can't offer the extension until October 1st?

[Rachel Nichols]

I think so. Or that was that of this year. It might be.

[Jason McIntyre]

Then it becomes like, okay, do you wait until he says no on October 1st?

[Rachel Nichols]

Right.

[Jason McIntyre]

Then you make the trade before the season?

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, I think they have to find out over the summer.

[Jason McIntyre]

But everything's going to be done by the summer.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah. I mean, it will or won't. As we saw at trade deadline, the market Moves for Yanis. This is not like a, you know, third tier play.

[Jason McIntyre]

I got to ask Rich, it looks like. I tried to count the injuries here. It looks like he's had five injuries this season. He's 31 and a half. Well, fine December birthday, so not half yet, but you know where we're headed.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

What's he gonna look like at 35?

[Rachel Nichols]

I mean, that's part of the question right now. A couple of those five injuries were just total flukes. The injury he has right now, it has nothing to do with the structure of his body. Yeah, but to your point, look, they haven't made out of the first round of the playoffs the last few seasons. Some of that is because Giannis has been hurt. Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

And let's just remind people Luka was traded when he was 26.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, that was totally different. You can't.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, no, I'm saying, like you're getting a guy in entering his prime at 26. Yeah, Giannis, he's. I'm not saying. Where is he in it? Like back end of his prime. How many years does he have as an MVP candidate? Two.

[Rachel Nichols]

It's. It's hard to tell. Right. LeBron is playing at 41 years old. I mean, what we're seeing right now is a stretch of players prime. And with a guy like Giannis, with big men, it's injuries that tend to shorten that prime. And you know, Steph Curry can shoot the ball forever. Kevin Durant, if he wants. You know, he said the other day LeBron could play till 45. If Kevin Durant wants to play till he's 45, he absolutely can spot up in the corner and shoot. A big guy is very different.

[Jason McIntyre]

I don't think they're going to get the haul people think they're going to get. I think they waited too long.

[Rachel Nichols]

They were offered pretty big hauls just a few months ago, should have taken them. So that's the question. Should they have moved him earlier? Teams are always more desperate around the trade deadline because they have seen where they are and guys inside the box.

[Jason McIntyre]

Team, let's remove Lakers, let's remove Knicks. Give me someone.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, the reason I think those two teams are the teams we're going to talk about is that by doing an expiring, by waiting until his contract was expiring, Giannis now has a huge say in where he goes. The thing about doing it at the deadline is that teams felt like, great. I'm getting a year and a half of Giannis and that's worth it to Me as a gm, Kawhi Leonard, that kind of deal. Well, even more so though. You're getting more time. It's two championships, not just one. And you know, he'll decide that he likes it here and he'll probably stay and all of that stuff. And especially for guys who are on the hot seat, this is just saving their job for a couple more years. Right now it's an expiring contract. If you trade for him in an expiring contract, you're probably not going to give up for first round drafts.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yes.

[Rachel Nichols]

Unless you have gotten a signal from Giannis that he wants to be there. Look, he's flirted with the warriors if you want to have another team out there. Yeah, but I don't know if that's going to happen.

[Jason McIntyre]

They have a good like Jimmy Butler still out.

[Rachel Nichols]

You know, Jimmy Butler's part of the contract that would have to get traded, so.

[Jason McIntyre]

So I'm trading for a guy who's coming off an achilles at like 35. Is there a world where the Pistons make a play when. With. With Kate Cunningham, does that work? I just don't know that they have the pieces to trade. Yeah, I'm looking at the standings. I don't think there's a slam dunk deal out there. I would keep an eye on the Clippers, but I do kind of like what the Clippers have with Garland, Matheran and Kawhi.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, the Clippers are a big question also, so, you know, look.

[Jason McIntyre]

Oh, we'll see. Yes, the Kawhi.

[Rachel Nichols]

So we'll see. We'll see what they have to offer because they don't have a lot of draft picks since the Shake trade. Right. And we'll see. I. I literally have no idea. I'm not, you know, hinting at anything, but if they get a bunch of draft picks taken away, they can't even be in the honest competition.

[Jason McIntyre]

OKC is the team with a bunch of draft picks, right?

[Rachel Nichols]

Yes. OKC and the spurs both have a boatload of traffic.

[Jason McIntyre]

So spurs beat the Thunder or Lakers beat the Thunder, and then the Thunders say we need Giannis, we're giving up Jdub and Caruso and all these other guys.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, I mean, that. That. I don't know if they're going to do that, but that would be a better fit than the spurs, who also have a boatload of draft picks.

[Jason McIntyre]

I don't think spurs are in the mix at all.

[Rachel Nichols]

No, no. So we'll see. I do want to talk to you more about LeBron James and some of what you were discussing earlier, you know, look, he has been hooping the last two games. There is no question about that. 49 points over two games, 21 of 26 shooting two. And oh, wins right in the last 24 hours. And after the win in Miami, he had some words for the people who've been criticizing him all season. Jays.

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean, his salespeople is a lot easier. And clippings and podcast, if you say

[Derrick Queen]

LeBron,

[Jason McIntyre]

their team is better off without him.

[Derrick Queen]

A lot of people view it, so I get it. They're absolutely wrong.

[Rachel Nichols]

They're absolutely wrong with S. Merck. God bless LeBron for still thinking that newspaper clippings are important. As someone who started in newspapers, I appreciate that. Look, the question is not whether a team is better or worse with LeBron James on it. He is obviously still playing at such a high level. It's whether LeBron is willing to fulfill the role that he is clearly now willing to fill in just the last couple weeks of the season in a playoff run. Right. That's very different to say, is he willing to do it all next season? Because if he is, of course he's better than any other guy you're going to get in that spot. I mean, when Luka, same player went to the NBA finals, it was with Kyrie Irving and the third guy who was doing the diving on the floor and the little things and was paid a much smaller amount, a guy like PJ Washington. Right. Would I rather have LeBron than PJ Washington? No respect, disrespect to PJ. Of course I would rather have LeBron than PJ Washington. But he has to be willing to fulfill that role. And that's the big question of whether it's good or not good to have LeBron on your team. Because if he is trying to fulfill Luka's role, it's actually probably better not to have him on your team. But I do. I. Look, it's fun for. For people to be able to prove the critics wrong. I get it, man.

[Jason McIntyre]

It's. It's really special what he's doing.

[Rachel Nichols]

It is. And by the way, no one is more criticized than LeBron for reasons that I don't understand.

[Jason McIntyre]

Can. Can you. I mean, the guy's been in the spotlight, I think 16, even as I

[Rachel Nichols]

met him when he was a high school senior. I would not be meeting most people when they are high school seniors.

[Jason McIntyre]

I played the game him against Carmelo Anthony, Grant Wall.

[Rachel Nichols]

Oh, that was great.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. I was like, this guy's amazing. Yeah, he's Been in the spotlight that long and has largely avoided any drama. Major controversy. I wouldn't say off the court. Yeah, off the court. On the court, he's been awesome. He's been a great ambassador for the league. I mean, I've been calling him the goat since he won the title with the Lakers. Everywhere he goes, he wins. Now he's in a different role and he's winning. Like, come on, the guy, he's unsurpassed.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, but I mean, that's the question, right? When he says, oh, it's ridiculous. People would say our team is better without LeBron on it. It is if he's willing to play this role and get paid for it in that it's not if he's trying to compete with Luka when they play the same way and they both need the ball in their hands. So it's just, it's, it's, it's more. As with most things, it's more complex than a sound bite, for sure. But I look, as I said, no one is more criticized. No. No player that good I have ever seen in my career criticized as much. And for him to be able to sort of look in people's faces and go, how you like me now? It's kind of fun when you see athletes do that. Yeah, exactly.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, Rachel with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by the herd lie news. So, bam. Adebayo scored 83 points last week. Impressive. Lucas 60 last night on a back to back. More impressive. Yes, I said it. I'll back it up next.

[Commercial Voice]

One more herd.

[Jason McIntyre]

The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app search heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

[Podcast Announcer]

Eczema isn't always obvious, but it's real. And so is the relief from Ebglis. After an initial dosing phase, about 4 in 10 people taking EBGLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

[Pharmaceutical Advertiser]

EBGLIS Librekizumab LBKZ a 250mg per 2ml injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals, or who cannot use topical therapies. Ebgliss can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to Ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglis. Before starting Epglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection searching for real relief?

[Podcast Announcer]

Ask your doctor about epglis and visit epgliss.lilly.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.

[Commercial Voice]

Support for the show comes from Public so it kind of feels like there's two types of investing platforms. You got the old school brokerages that look like they were designed in like 1995. Then you have those other platforms, the ones that feel less like investing and more like a casino. Public is neither. It's the investing platform for people who actually take this stuff seriously. You know, people who are serious about building their wealth. Because on public, you can build a portfolio of stocks and options and bonds and crypto without all the bugs or the confetti. Retirement accounts? Yep. High yield cash. Of course. They even have direct indexing. Honestly, this is what investing platform should look like. Modern design, simple to use, and customer support that actually cares. Go to public.comcowherd and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.comcalhurt ad paid for by Public

[Pharmaceutical Advertiser]

Holdings Brokerage Services by Public Investing Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors SEC Registered Advisor Crypto Services by ZeroHash

[Jason McIntyre]

all investing involves risk of loss. See complete [e-mail] disclosures this is Martha

[Martha Stewart]

Stewart from the Martha Stewart Podcast. Ever wonder how to make hosting look effortless? Here's a secret Getting ahead of the mess with new Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper. Just lightly wet the counter beforehand so the paper grips and stays in place. Then lay down the Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper so drips and spills stay on the paper, not all over your kitchen counter. You can roll out dough, prep a party spread or cook alongside family. When you're done, cleanup is as simple as lifting the paper and revealing that clean counter underneath. Effortless. You can use it for cooking and baking, prep and even crafting, especially when you need extra working space. Because when the mess is already handled, you can focus on what matters. The food, the people and the moment. It may look effortless, but now you know it's Reynolds Kitchen's countertop prep paper. Take a tip from me. Wet it, set it, prep it, done. Make it easy. Make it with Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper available now in the Reynolds wrap aisle and Walmart.

[Commercial Voice]

Innovation is what gets your business to the big leagues. And Wasabi is designed to give every business a shot at competition. Break free from skyrocketing storage costs, unpredictable egress fees from old and top heavy legacy providers. You know the big guys. Wasabi is the world's hottest cloud storage company and the go to provider for professional and collegiate sports teams and leagues around the world. And here's why. Innovation. From Wasabi's AI enabled intelligent media storage Wasabi Air to the industry's only cloud storage service. With triple protection against cybercriminals, data deletion and ransomware, Wasabi has taken the lead in big league data storage. Remember, Wasabi is up to 80% less than the other guys and doesn't charge a cent for businesses to access their own data. Wasabi is another championship story. Check them out. [e-mail], wasabi Hot Cloud Storage. Proud partner of the Volume Podcast Network.

[Podcast Host]

I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod. Say hi Dan.

[Dan Morgan]

Hey, how's it going today?

[Podcast Host]

It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.

[Dan Morgan]

I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan which is America's largest injury law firm.

[Podcast Host]

That's pretty awesome. I think I saw a billboard of yours recently that said 20 billion. Wonderful. 20 million is an insane number.

[Dan Morgan]

Yeah, 20 billion recovered. It's actually I think somewhere north. Probably closer to 22, 23 after this year. And each year we get bigger and badder and our army grows. So the number will hopefully keep getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.

[Podcast Host]

Awesome. So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan? What would I do if I got into an accident?

[Dan Morgan]

Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. We are always open. Our call center is always waiting to take your call. 24, 7, 365.

[Rachel Nichols]

Wow.

[Podcast Host]

Dan Morgan from Morgan and Morgan, America's large injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the show.

[Dan Morgan]

Thanks for having me. Visit for the people.com for an office near you.

[Rachel Nichols]

Retired. Retired. Come on. Tom Brady is back on the field for the fanatics flag football classic on Fox. It is a star studded. I mean look at the guys who are playing star studded three team round robin tournament featuring the best in the game tomorrow, 4pm Eastern only on Fox.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, we got, we got some time here, so two good topics. I'll go. Dealer's choice. Rachel, do you want me to do Luca or High Point first?

[Commercial Voice]

I don't want.

[Jason McIntyre]

I didn't ask the staff specifically.

[Rachel Nichols]

I was going to say, you know

[Jason McIntyre]

what they would say. But I'll ask you.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, we just, we just talked about LeBron and the Lakers. So let's throw a little High Point in there.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right. Let's go. NCAA tournament.

[Rachel Nichols]

Okay, sure. And then we can do a little bit more on Lucas scoring.

[Jason McIntyre]

This is awesome. So High Point took down Wisconsin yesterday. Big upset. Wisconsin of course, looked great in the Big Ten season. High Point just refuses to die. Trailed almost the entire game. The guy who scored their game winning basket didn't make a two pointer all season. He's just a chucker like me. So High Point gets a win and afterward their coach, who's on the all name team, Flynn Clayman. Okay. By the way, I couldn't believe this. I. Let me triple check first year head coach for High Point. He had never, best I can tell, never been a head coach before. Listen to how serious he is. And this is actually a good topic. Take a listen.

[Commercial Voice]

And it's pretty obvious to me that something needs to be done about this non conference scheduling. High Point in Miami, Ohio are two and oh, in quad one games. We couldn't get games. They couldn't get games. We won 22 of our last 23 games and we didn't move up one spot in the metrics. Not one. We won 22 of our 23. We've won 25 games by double digits. That team right there is a fantastic team that beat five top 10 teams. If we can get games like this on neutral courts and some home games, I think we'd know who's really the best teams. I'm proud of these dudes. And we're not just here to win one game. We're here to get to the Sweet 16.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right? He's a young guy. He's a little too intense. Like, bro, you just got the win over Wisconsin. Can you crack a smile? But he's all business right now. And you know what? If you listen closely, he's spot on. He nailed that. You absolutely have to set up a system where everybody's incentivized to play everyone else. It's just not fair because that venue, it comes down to the tournament and the bubble. Wow. This team, they have no Quad one wins. Hello. Nobody would play Them. That's just how it works. There's zero incentive for the big dogs to play the small guy.

[Rachel Nichols]

None.

[Jason McIntyre]

It just, I mean, it's goofy. It's a bad system, but that's how it is. I don't know the easy fix. I mean, the NBA set up an in season tournament to like, gin up interest. And I remember college basketball would do like, they named it some kind of week and it would be like Big ten versus the sec and then it would be, you know, they'd have some mid majors, go head to head, but you would never get like North Carolina versus High Point because it's only a loss for North Carolina if you win. Who cares if you lose? Oh, my gosh. It's a blemish on your record. And, you know, that's got to change. I don't know how you change that. It's kind. We're seeing this kind of in college sports a little bit where it just. The divide is massive and the big guys do not want to play the little guys they can lean on. Well, we got our conference schedule and where's the help? I'm not going to High Point to take an L. That's how I get fired. You know, we lost a High Point in November. Oh, my gosh, he's on the hot seat. Like, nobody wants to deal with that. It's a tough situation. College sports going through a lot of change and growth. They've got to figure it out. Rachel, I know we tried to solve the NBA tanking. We tried to solve the NBA, another big issue. Any thoughts here on what can be done?

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, de. Emphasizing strength of schedule is kind of the only way to do this because big teams aren't incentivized to play small teams because it hurts their strength of schedule. Right. So the small teams who are really good can't get big games, so it hurts their strength of schedule. So strength of schedule, it's a good metric, right? I mean, it helps you decide how valuable certain teams wins are. But maybe it's just emphasized too much because right now it's an unfair system, frankly, on both sides. Right.

[Jason McIntyre]

Maybe if they. They do a weighted, like out of 100, what matters? Strength of schedules, like 10 as opposed to like 40, which it seems to be now. So college, you got to figure it out. I mean, because High Point's a hell of a story. I do think they get. I think they got Arkansas next. Yeah, they're going to get destroyed by Darius Acuff. Sorry, Mr. Flynn. Claimants. All right, let's move on to the NBA and Luca's 60 last night. So it comes on the heels. And I actually thought, I'm like, Lucas scored 60. That's weird. Oh, it was against the Heat. Oh, that's right. Bam just dropped 83. I wonder if this is a get back. Hey, Bam, you're not that special. Remember, Bam was. I mean, there was more criticism for his 83 point game than I think he anticipated. Some of it warranted, some was over the top. I mean, 83 points is tough to do. But after Luka dropped 60 on BAM last night, and again, here's Bam cooking against the Washington Wizards. Rachel's tanking Wizards. That was last week.

[Rachel Nichols]

He scored an unnecessary strain. Thank you.

[Jason McIntyre]

But here's Bam on Luca after Luca scored 60. Not tell me what you think here.

[Derrick Queen]

I notice, like, the be in that mode. As people can see, it's not easy to get 80.

[Jason McIntyre]

A little debate among the staff here. I think he was saying that in jest. Not everybody seems to think that. He's smiling, you know, stroking the goatee. It's like, it's tough to get 80. Tough to drop an 80 burger. Luca had 60. Oh, my gosh, he had nine threes. How could Luca go from 60 to 83? Like another 23 points? No way. Now it was on a back to back. It does show. Yeah, 83 is hard, and that's why Bam gets props. But my take was the 60s, actually more impressive because it was on a back to back on a brutal travel spot. And oh, by the way, it was a game that mattered against a good team. Nobody tanking in this one. He'd had their full arsenal of guys. Tyler Herro played, Norman Powell played. And oh, yeah, there was no gimmick stuff with like intentional fouls, jacking threes that you wouldn't normally shot. Everything was within the structure of the offense. I mean, he's 9 of 17 from 3. He only took 30 shots. He didn't, like, get to the foul line. What was it, 44 times? A little gimmicky. And again, I'm not blasting it. This is just the reality. So let me play it one more time and then we'll get Rachel's reaction. Here's Bam out of bayo after Luca scored 60. Tell me, is this a dig or is he being serious?

[Derrick Queen]

I know this like to be in that mode. As people can see, it's not easy to get 80.

[Jason McIntyre]

So, Rachel, is he joking or seriously?

[Rachel Nichols]

No, he's not joking.

[Jason McIntyre]

You think he's serious?

[Rachel Nichols]

Yes. Wow. He doesn't Think it's easy to get Haiti. And by the way, he's right. It's not easy to get 80. Like, one thing I always say about these. When people are saying, oh, you know, he did it this way, he did it that way. If it was easy, everyone would do it. You know how. You know, it's hard. People don't do it. So it is hard no matter how he got it. However, I also think that Luka Doncic watched BAM get that 83. And remember, Luka got 73 in a game when he was in Dallas.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's right.

[Rachel Nichols]

Right. Which was sort of the closest anyone had felt like was to Kobe's 81. So here's a guy who not only breaks Kobe's mark, but blasts past Luca. And I'm sure Luca was sitting there going, oh, well, if I had the intentional fouling, I could have gotten 83 that night, that sort of thing. So I don't know how much Luca was thinking as he went out on the court last night. I'll show everybody, you know, scoring points. I mean, who knows?

[Derrick Queen]

I.

[Rachel Nichols]

You know, I didn't have a personal heart to heart with him before he took the court, but I can see that little, you know, one upsmanship on both sides. And by the way, we want that. Right? That's fun. That's. It's good to have guys being like, oh, look at me. Well, look at me. You know, that sort of thing.

[Jason McIntyre]

So I'm trying to look up the box score. It looks like Lucas73 came against the Atlanta Hawks in a close game. 148, 143. But I was watching the Lakers game last night, and Luka wasn't on pace for 60 at halftime. It wasn't even close. But the third quarter, they're down bad. Luka goes off, and so that's totally different than bam. Again, 83 is really hard to get. But Luca, when he beat the. When he beat The Atlanta Hawks, 25 of 33, 15 of 16 on free throws, hit eight threes. They needed all of them. It was a close game. In the fourth quarter, like, again, bam. I know it's 83. Let's say Luca plays the Wizards next week. Does he say, I'm Gonna go for 90? Does he try? I'm just asking. The Wizards are horrific. Sorry. They have no guards. They have no anything.

[Rachel Nichols]

Strays. We're not talking about the Wizards. We're talking about Bama Luca. Come on.

[Jason McIntyre]

But. Yeah, but if Luka plays the Wizards, do you think he could go for. I'm I'm. Do you. I mean, are other guys around the league saying 83, I could drop 84?

[Rachel Nichols]

I mean, you know, I think with the Lakers, the way their offense is working right now, we've been talking about three guys trying to decide what the distribution is on how they share things. I don't think Luka is going for a vanity score because it's just not in keeping with the way the Lakers are doing things right now.

[Jason McIntyre]

Right now.

[Rachel Nichols]

So that idea that he'd be like, oh, I can shoot this and show. Let me show you, you know, that sort of thing, I don't think see that happening for the rest of this season with the way the team is, is and sort of the world they're on right now. But do I think Luka is eventually capable of scoring more than 83 in a game? Yes. With the way scoring is in today's NBA. I mean, some of these scores are just preposterous, right? I mean, I, I remember covering The NBA when 80 something to 80 something was like a regular night. And so scoring keeps going up. More players get better at three. Luka is obviously already fantastic at the three. You know, could he break that one day? Yeah, I can see that. Of course, you know.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, so let's get my MVP guys on the screen real quick because Rachel actually has a vote. Puts a lot of thought. I'm sure she sequesters herself from her family, crunches all the numbers. So how does the voting ballot go? Is it you vote for five, you

[Rachel Nichols]

vote and you rank them. Okay. So sometimes a guy who's getting a lot of second place votes and if there's a split on first place votes, could actually hop up to first because of those second place votes. I think the thing that confuses. I want to use last year's race as an example. It was really close down to the wire on Shay versus Jokic, remember that? And it was really split among people who were doing the prognosticating saying, oh, I think it should be him. I think it should be him. It's so close. It's so close. I was sitting there, as you said, looking at all the numbers, doing all the situations, and it was so close. And the thing that really helped make my decision, and I know a lot of my fellow voters helped make their decision, was Thunder had the best record in the league and Shea led them to that. And sometimes winning if it certainly it's not always the most important thing, but it certainly isn't a tiebreaker and it is a very important thing. So when the votes actually were tallied, even though it was so close for a lot of people, and I'm waiting till the last second to make my decision, I am picking SGA last year and so did so many other people. Okay, it was close in people's minds, but the vote was like 70, 30, 70, 30.

[Jason McIntyre]

So last year SGA played 76 games. He's on pace to play closer to 68. Yeah, the injuries this year, injuries, does that factor in? By the way, his numbers are down a little from last year in terms of points per game is down, assists is up a tick, rebounds are down, steals are down. So he's not having the great year he had last year.

[Rachel Nichols]

I mean, it's just he's playing, playing very well.

[Jason McIntyre]

He's playing very well. Not as good as Luca. All right, so coming up next, Fanatics CEO Michael Rubin stops by the show to talk flag football.

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