← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
THE HERD - Hour 2 - QBs that overcame adversity, the drama between Jonathan Kuminga and the Warriors, Trent Dilfer
00:43:13
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This is an iHeart podcast.
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Guaranteed Human. Remember when people were nice? When we could occasionally stop fighting and come together? Well, here's some good news. The Ripple Effect is here. Hosted by comedian Jenna Kim Jones. It's a show about how powerful it is when we reach out to one another. It's the perfect weekly proof that goodness isn't gone. The Ripple Effect is more than a podcast. It's a reminder that you can start a ripple that changes everything. Listen to the ripple effect on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. We all want the best without having to pay the most. That's where Verizon comes in. Get this now you can take your AT and T or T mobile bill into any Verizon store. They'll look at what you're paying and give you a better deal. Period. You get the amazing coverage you want while keeping more cash in your pocket. Visit your local Verizon store to start saving today. Must provide recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms and conditions apply. This is Lavar Arrington from Up on Game. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. It's a great time to apply for an Apple Card. You'll love earning unlimited daily cash on every purchase. That includes 3% daily cash when you buy the latest iPhone, AirPods and Apple Watch at Apple through this special referral offer. When you get a new Apple Card, you can earn bonus daily cash. To qualify, you must apply at Apple Co. Get daily cash Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch offer may not be available elsewhere. Terms and limitations apply. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Big news Aldi is now on Uber Eats and you get 20% off your first grocery order with the code new Aldi 26. So whether your fridge is empty and you're too tired to shop, or you just ran out of essential ingredients in the middle of meal prep, don't worry. Fill your fridge in a couple of taps and get 20% off your first Aldi order on Uber Eats. For orders over $60, you can save up to $20. Ends February 28th. Terms apply. See app for details. Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific Monday. Find your local station for the herd@foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio, hour two. We are live in Chicago. It is the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. You know, a lot of times I've said this over and over and over ad nauseam for years. Do not chase money, chase good management. There's a sea of money out there. If you're talented, there's a sea of money. There's not. There's a finite number of really good, in my case, broadcasting executives. There's a million broadcasting companies and very few that are really, really well run. And so I look at people often in my space and just say, let me see your career decisions. Why did you just go there? Just about money, short term money. What about your long term career aspirations? What about good management and marketing and, and so it was lost in the super bowl week that Jonathan Kaminga and the warriors and I've never been a huge Kaminga guy, it kind of melted down, it got kind of ugly and you know, each side, he said, they said, you know, whatever. Each kind of covering their tracks in the divorce. Here was Steve Kerr on the Kaminga move, the Kaminga trade.
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C
Steve Kerr, JK is a really good young guy.
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B
You know, he's, it's been obviously a.
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C
Rocky road, you know, for him and for us and you know, wasn't always, you know, the, the right fit. Obviously kind of in and out of the rotation. I think that was tough for him. Tough for us as well.
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B
Trying to navigate everything and I really.
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C
Hope finds his way and you know.
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B
Whether it's Atlanta or wherever else, I, you know, I really want to see him succeed and I'm sorry that it.
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C
Didn'T, didn't happen here.
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B
Let me give you three players. Jonathan Kaminga, Jalen Green and Scoot Henderson were G League ignite guys. A four year experiment by the NBA that went belly up and should have. None of them developed into the player they should have been. Much like broadcasting, I judge people on the decisions and choices they make. Why in the world would you choose G League ignite over Duke and Kansas and Michigan State? Well, a lot of kids aren't built for college. Every pro football player goes there for at least three years. Why are basketball players different? You can't handle a year of college. The marketing you get playing. I watched Duke, Carolina the other day. You got $8 million of free marketing. None of those G League guys, you don't get elite coaching and G League unite, you don't get, you don't play in packed arenas like Cameron Indoor or Kansas or UConn, where you. That's like an NBA intensity. The coaching, the nutrition, the travel, the training staffs playing in massive arenas. That is like. That's like a. I mean, playing at Carolina, that's like an NBA environment, a playoff environment. You got 15,000 plus, 16,000 plus. You know, at these big college basketball arenas, that's where you go. That's where you get marketing. Cooper, flag Duke to Dallas. He's already a star. Why? Because I watched him at Duke. Stefan Castle at Yukon. Jalen Brunson goes to Villanova. By the time he gets to the NBA, I know his whole life story. I'm looking at guys this morning. Find me one G league ignite star in the NBA. There isn't one. I. I always, always felt this about AAU basketball. 8,000 meaningless games. More about the individual than the team. And you'll find Kaminga, like a lot of these guys. Scoot Henderson, Jaylen Green, they don't play well with others. They. I mean, it's. It's more about I got to have the ball in my hands. It's. It's the. The spacing. They're not good. It's just like super talented. Okay, but what really bothers me is the choices young, great basketball players have. I don't understand everybody demonizing college basketball. The coaching, the travel is first class, the arenas you play in, the gear you get. Even pre nil. Even pre nil. I would talk to a couple of college basketball friends, and they were like, you know, people in the. The business, coaches, and they're like, our players get treated really well. That was pre nil. So, you know, you can blame whoever you want. Coming is long and talented, but he doesn't rebound, he doesn't shoot well. You know, his low post game is all over the map. Good one night, not the next. Good this matchup, bad the next. Yeah, I wish him well, but I've been on this for years. I do not get the NBA. NFL totally gets the value of college football. Totally understands the value of college football. Basketball, like, has it out. NBA has it out for college basketball. The coaching's great. The arenas are great, The TV product. You're on television. I mean, you've seen the ratings for these college basketball games the last couple years. Huge. They're beating the NBA with that. Here's somebody I haven't talked to in a while. Maybe text, not talk. Trent Dilfer, used to be a regular on the show. Got kind of busy. Got A new job. Do we have Trent right now? Oh, we're reconnecting right now. He'll be joining us in just one second. Yeah, and, and, and I went and looked at Kaminga's numbers the last three years, by the way, his minutes and his games and his numbers all went down. All right, here we go. Trent Dill, for now, is joining us live and long time no talk. 14 years in the NFL. Where are you right now and how are you doing?
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C
I miss you, brother. I am back after a complete failure in college football, back to where my roots are, high school football. So I'm back at Lipscomb where I spe 4 years and was my happiest and what I'm wired to do. More transformation than transaction.
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B
Ah, yeah, that's what college football is. You know, we, we, we talked about this earlier. I had Drew Brees on yesterday and I asked Drew, I said, does your journey remind you a little Sam Darnold, where the first place is turbulent, you don't maybe get the support? And he said, it does. And he went on and gave a really interesting answer. And it actually made me think of Arch Manning, who had to sit for two years, I would argue, behind a guy he'll ultimately be better than, then when he did play, got the crap kicked out of him and everybody ripped him. And then at the end of this year, dealing with all that adversity, he was great in his last six games. And I'm like, when you were in college football, I mean, your, your journey, I mean, I could go back. I was there, I was in Tampa working as a sports guy. Do you worry about having been in college football? Forget the other positions that at the first sign of adversity, a lot of these quarterbacks and their dads are like, we're out of town. Does that worry you?
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C
Heck, yeah. As usual, you're right on this thing that nobody wants to talk about. What makes you wired to be a championship quarterback is the adversity, are the hard things, are the grind are the failures. I got booed out of outbacks, I had binoculars thrown at me. I, you know, if there was social media back then, I wouldn't be able to be on it. And many quarterbacks have the same story. It's what hardens you. And we're so scared as athletes in this generation for hard things, for adversities, for benchings, for failures, for four interception games, for not meeting expectations, what a guy might say about you, what you read on your phone, but yet we need to embrace those things. Is the Good stuff. The good stuff comes out of the hard stuff and you get to a point where you really just don't care anymore about what others think, then you're free. But I think every young player has to go through that pain point, has to go through that struggle so they're freed up that you're not playing for that. You're playing because you love football for your teammates, for the job, for the passion. And that's what you said. I'm seeing Sam Darnold highlights. That's all you've seen in Sam. Sam was wildly talented. We came out. I remember being at ESPN saying Sam Darnold, he is a can't miss guy. If, if he's developed the right way, if he's taught the right way, if the system's correct form. But he went into a bad situation. It took the hardening of bad situations, took resilience and grit. It took being with the right people in the right time. In the aha moment. The guys were more game in the last two years, I think than anybody but Tom Brady in the two year span. So he has become a great quarterback because of the hardening that went into the process.
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B
We tend to, you know, we tend to forget that football more than any sport is really collaborative. I mean, if you, if, if you're a great basketball player, you can get your 26 a night in Orlando or in Phoenix. But even as a wide receiver, look at Larry Fitzgerald's career. Boy, he was way better when he has Kurt Warner.
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C
You know what I mean?
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Like, or so I mean even a receiving position which we think is over on the sideline doing his own thing, breaking the huddle. First I look at Josh Allen. Well, because of his contract, they don't have Pro Bowlers on defense. I look at Patrick Mahomes because of his contract, they don't have a running game and they can't get their own line right. Brady and Brees both said at one point, Trent, I'm going to take a little less and I'm going to win more. Well, what do you know? Networks come the minute you're off the air and they want to put you on the air because you're a winner. Go back to your career is maybe the model going forward. Guys, you will make that money back. You'll make it back because you'll have a better right tackle, you'll get a TV job. But it is hard to tell a pro athlete don't take the most money available to you. That's hard for a quarterback, is it not?
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C
It is. This is a big subject. I'll give you my thoughts on this. I've been saying this for years. One, I think in the cba, in the salary cap, they need to remove a portion for the quarterback. I think every team football would be better if the teams weren't punished for these massive quarterback salary cap hits. I've always thought that should be the case. If not, then I'm on your, I'm on your page. Then they at least need to relax. Some of the rules that quarterbacks like Tom Brady and Drew Bees at the face of the franchise. Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, you can go down the list. Should be able to get an equity piece of the organization or be involved in business deals that are tied to the NFL because that's where real money, I mean, you know billionaires. I know billionaires. They're equity stakes. You know what I mean? They get a piece of something bigger than their personal brand. So imagine Tom Brady, I don't know how much wealth he has. It's ridiculous, I'm sure. But it'd be even greater if he had a stake of the New England Patriots. Drew Brees should have had a stake in the business dealings of the New Orleans Saints. If they could do that, then quarterbacks would take less because agents aren't going to let them bet on the TV contract. And I get it. I will say this too about Tom and Drew. They're both very good at it too. You know, I mean, I don't watch a ton of NFL anymore, but when I do and either one of them's talking, I listen where I don't listen to a lot of other people. You know what I mean? And there's a lot of really successful quarterbacks that aren't good on tv. I mean, they just don't know how to communicate clearly. They're not concise with their words. They don't have charisma. They can't teach the game. The game came too easy for them, right? I think a lot of times the gate, the guys that are the best on tv, the game came hard to Tom Brady, worked harder than anybody else. So he explain it to somebody that's in the developmental stage or doesn't totally understand it. Drew Brees, same way he can explain it better because he took the hard road to the game and he has a gravitas of being a Hall of Famer. So again, agents are going to let you bet on the future, but if in the now they can have money, they could have revenue streams that are legal, that are outside the salary cap, then they would take more. I mean, anybody would take more for a superstar wide receiver or a better left tackle or a dominant inside backer or an edge rusher. That would be a no brainer for any of us if we knew that we had an equity stake or a business dealing that could bring us the hundreds of millions of dollars that we're turning down in a contract.
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You said you watch more college than pro and we've had this kind of opinion on this show is that a lot of my strongest opinions on players are often because I have sources in a pro league telling me that or in an athletic department. And then there's these occasions when I like somebody way more than my sources in the league or I like somebody way less than my sources. And that's when I make often my biggest mistakes. And you can, you know, you look and go, how did you think that? And I'm like, well, I should have listened to people. So Fernando Mendoza is one of those. My, my sources like him. I love him. I think he's Matt Ryan. Plus bigger, stronger, more athletic than Matt Ryan. And I think Matt Ryan was really good in his prime. Very good MVP Fernando Mendoza. What do you see? Do you see very good but not a star, or is it you? You tell me what you see.
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C
Tremendously talented, very charismatic, great learner, compliant, which I think is one of the most undervalued thing in quarterbacking, Meaning that they will do as they're told to do by their coaches who are smarter than them. They're not trying to roll out the balls and be the best athlete on the field. They're trying to be a surgeon instead of a butcher. If I told that one to you before, both have sharp instruments, right? One has a. Makes you a pastrami sandwich with his instrument. The other one saves your life with his instrument. Right. You got to have surgeons out there, so you got to be compliant to be a surgeon. He is. He has played very remedial quarterback. So their passing game is very good, but very simple. He does not full field read very often. If you notice, he tucks it and runs a lot because they're kind of a one, two and go offense. Yeah, just. I would say Justin Herbert is your best comparable hall of fame talent. Remedial progression in his development. Therefore, he needs to be handled in such a way early on because he's going to have to play. I still don't believe in playing him early. I still, to this day, I'm one of the very few out there that still thinks they should sit for a year. One year. One year. But everybody else says, oh, you got to pay him. You got to play them great. Then play him in a run action, cut the field in half. Rpo, good run game, third down, protect him. Don't make him do all the protections and let him go. Be really good at that. And then build over years into the surgeon. I think he'd be as good as anybody there is if. And people are going to hold me to these comments and I'm putting there that if I want to know who's coaching them, I don't know who's developing him. I want to know who's in his ear all the time. I want to know who his mentor is. Is he going out to Southern California, working with Jordan Palmer? I hope so. You know, I mean, I hope that he's doing the things that the greatest in the games decided. I'm okay right now, but I can be great. And I need to surround myself with people that are great. Now, some of that is in his, in his control. And some of it like Sam Darnold, like a bunch of others that were really good that didn't make it. It's out of their control.
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Right.
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So where he's drafted, who's developing them, how they built the infrastructure around him. As Mike Holden always used to say, build the building around that player's development because then we'll all have jobs forever.
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Yeah.
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But if you don't build the building around his development, he's just part of the building. Then he could have a Sam Donald experience because he hasn't been taught. And I love that staff. This is not a knock in Indiana staff, by the way. We dumbed it down a little bit too, in college football because you only have them for a limited amount of time.
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Yeah.
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And you got to win games. So it's nobody's fault. But when you look at his DNA as a quarterback, it's more of a 1, 2, either or. It's very defined. A lot of back shoulders, a lot of goalballs instead of inside benders, runaways. Not a lot of modern NFL passing game in his repertoire. So that just needs to be developed. Will it happen by the right person? It wouldn't even be that hard to develop them by the right person, but it needs to be the right person.
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B
So I was saying we'll wrap it up with this. The Seahawks defense, which is really special when, when. When your GM goes eight for eight in the last four years on the first two picks. And I mean eight, four Eight great players. That's hard to duplicate. The Seattle defense looked a little bit like the Legion of, you know, boom. And all the Legion are doing. And also looked a little bit like your Ravens defense. Now, your Ravens defense could. Corners could do things you can't do anymore. So it's different. But when I think of great defenses, I'm like, oh, the Tampa Bay, the Ravens, Richard Sherman, Cam Chancellor, Seahawks. And I watch this one, I'm like, oh, that's one of the four. And so Drake May gets engulfed. And my take is he's 23. These guys, I mean, outside of Matt Stafford, they ate everybody's lunch. They ate. Stafford's got Puka and Devonte and McVeigh. So you tell me the times in your career when you go back to your early days, your young days, and you face the best defense in the league. What does it look like? What was Drake May seeing?
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C
Oh, gosh, I'm so glad you asked me this question. I have a really fun story to tell. To answer this question. My wife and I were driving across the country for the last. For four days, and the third day was Super Bowl Sunday, and she wanted to stop and go to a fancy hotel and watch the game. I'm like, no, I'm rolling. I'm 10 hours in. I want to do another two, three hours. So we're watching the game on Highway 70, driving through the middle of America on our iPad. And I'm driving, and I'm going about 75, 80 miles per hour, and I get pinned in between these two semis. And everybody has ever driven a highway when you're going fast. There's a lot of traffic, and the semis pin you in. It's the most claustrophobic, uncomfortable. Oh, my gosh, I'm going fast. They're going fast, but are they going to sm? Am I going to become a, you know, peanut butter and jelly sandwich in these. In these semis? And I'm watching Drake Mann like we're living the same life right now. I'm going to get smashed by two semis going 75. He feels that way every time he takes a snap. The Seattle Seahawks defense was two semis pinned him in on Highway 70 in the middle of America. And what do you do? You can't breathe, you can't think. Everything speeds up. Like he. Short arms, some balls. I think the kid's phenomenal. I coached him in Elite 11. I love Drake May. He will be a superstar in this league for years to come. But you put and ask Thomas. I mean, Tom's on your show. He's the greatest of all time. There's only one defense to Tom Brady. There's only one way you could take him away. You couldn't play, man. You couldn't play zone. You couldn't blitz him. You couldn't drop eight. You couldn't do it. But what you could do is make them sandwich in between two semis. Rex Ryan's defenses did it. Sometimes there are certain defenses that knew how to take Tom Brady's superpower away. And it's. His was more interior pressure.
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Right.
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But this was an overwhelming side interior sandwich. Two semis on the side of you on a highway pressure. And no quarterback in the history of football could have thrived in that environment.
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B
Yeah, it's. It's great seeing you again.
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C
I'm fired up, man.
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B
And does anybody care to have a.
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C
Say anymore after being a colossal failure in college football? At least I know a little bit.
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B
Listen, football is. Belichick got fired. Andy Reid got fired. I think you're okay.
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You're getting fired or hired. When I decided to coach, that's what all my mentors told me is like, hey, if you're the of one willing to be hired a bunch of times and fired a bunch of times, go for it. I'm like, okay, here we go.
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Great seeing you again.
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C
You're the best, dude. See you.
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B
All right. Trent Dilfer. Yeah, I mean, I. I think, you know, we said this a year ago. Sam Darnold got sacked nine times by the Rams, and everybody said, guy's a bum. Told you, year later, he's hoisting a trophy. They're going to get their offensive line fixed because it's obvious that's the weakness of the team. And Drake May faces the Seahawks next regular season. What do you bet he plays well? What do you bet he's a better quarterback? Like it. When I'm watching that Seattle game and I'm YouTubing it and watch the highlights, Seattle's defense is just. I mean, the four best defenses top my head are like that Ravens defense. There was a buccaneer defense. There's the Seattle defense with Cam Chancellor Richard Sherman, and there's this defense. And then out. Houston Texans are really good, too. They. But those four just in the end end up in Super Bowls. They just overwhelm people. That's why I said Stafford as MVP over Drake May. Stafford ate this defense for lunch. And some of it is Seattle's guard, center guard. Seattle's got. The Rams have great guards and great receivers and Great backs. So Seattle's facing a Rams offense that. That is a Pro bowl team. There's, like, great players everywhere. But even that said, Stafford wasn't good on third down. Stafford, I think, was over six on third down. They were very good early downs. So Drake May, I mean, you would agree, Drake May is going to be fine.
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A
We'll see. We'll see. By the way, there was some commentary from Seattle defensive backs about May. They could tell what's coming based on the way he was looking and reacting. There were some tells. They were like, we couldn't see that with Stafford. Hey, let me say something about Trent Doher real quick. Two seconds. A lot of people, when they have success, they. They give themselves all the credit. Well, I was a genius. I was smart. And when they have failures, they blame it on other people. Yeah, well, that. That guy screwed me in the system and blah, blah, blah. What Trent Dover just said was pretty incredible. I mean, he owned it. He was like, I was a failure. That's refreshing. I. I mean, that was one of the most real things that I've heard from any interview we've had this year. I mean, did you hear him? He was just like, no.
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B
I mean, listen, listen, I respect that. Steve Spurrier, great college coach, disaster in the NFL, and Nick Saban failed. And I don't think Nick's built for the NFL. He's really built for college. He's got it. He's really got it. He's a closer. He's a great personality. He's a great teacher. But, like, Spurrier, just. In my opinion, you know, Steve just didn't quite have, like, the. The work mentality. NFL is no life. I mean, it's just no football life. Like you just literally in the facility all day. That's not who Spurrier is.
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A
And he used the word Dilfer, used the word transaction. Did you hear that? And college football is very transactional, right?
- [26:19]
B
That's what it is.
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A
It's. What are you going to pay me to come on your team? What's my role? And that's. That's a little different.
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B
And that's why a Kurt Signetti and a Bill Belichick, guys who are older can flourish. It's administrative. It's transactional. Bill Belichick's not gonna go, you know, five, six years ago, Nick Saban's literally on a private jet flying to Northern California. He's all over the country. You have no life. Now a lot of it is recruit within your region and go buy the deficiencies on your office Exactly. And so it makes. And get young staffs who will do the work for you. But it's largely the head coach now. It's a transactional administrative job. And that means you don't have to have the best energy in the. If you got a little bit of energy and can write some checks, you can solve a lot of problems on that roster.
- [27:08]
A
Yeah, it used to be the, you know, Nick Saban, here's how I can help you now. All the players are like, what are you going to do for me? What are you paying me? What's my role going to be? And it's. It's changed a lot. College football is in this. This weird, like, transactional phase where I think it's good, you think it's good. But on ground zero, I don't.
- [27:25]
B
I don't know. I will say we've overstated it a little. I think the first few years, couple years of the nil, everybody was just, leave, leave, leave, leave, leave. I think universities have gotten much smarter on this. I think the first two years of it, people overspent, or I should say overspent over. Signed.
- [27:47]
A
Yes.
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B
I mean, I always have this. Take most. If Georgia's moving off a defensive lineman, they know the odometer. They didn't. They didn't want to move off Jalen Carter. Right. Like. Like if you find LSU or Georgia or an Alabama moving off an interior defensive tackle, he probably doesn't play as hard as they like. So the bottom line is most universities, the power conferences, the power schools, they're going to pay the guys who are really, really great. And I think teams have figured out the NIL college football programs have figured out. There's a lot of good B players that you don't have to pay a fortune that can, like, you know, a second corner, a second running back, a second a right tackle, not a left tackle. And now, okay, occasionally you can go buy a. Caleb Downs. Wasn't he at Bama? And goes to Ohio State. You're like, okay, that. That guy's just unbelievable. But I think the nil, everything goes in a cycle.
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A
Yeah.
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B
In the first couple years of it, it was like people were buying 35 players. I always thought. I've talked to a coach who said this. The Mag number is 8. You won't screw up chemistry. If you bring in about eight guys, you may. He goes outside a quarterback plug. Deficiencies. You don't have to go buy stars. Go buy a great pass rusher if you can, but it just. You don't want to be terrible anywhere. The coaching's good.
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A
Well, Texas Tech is trying to throw a monkey wrench. I just read an article about some of the stuff they're doing. They're very cutting edge, man. You know, that was my team last year gave it out on the show. Texas Tech to make the playoff. That was a plus 500 ticket, big winner. I'm looking for one this year. I don't have it yet, but I may have to pick your brain during one of these commercial breaks.
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B
Live in Chicago, it's the herd. One more herd.
- [29:32]
A
The herd streams 24 hours a day.
- [29:35]
B
Seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search herd to listen live or on.
- [29:39]
A
Demand whenever you'd like.
- [29:43]
C
Stigatz here I have a podcast empire. It continues to grow and I have brought it here to iHeart.
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B
I'm also doing a live radio show.
- [29:52]
C
From 3 to 5pm Eastern because my.
- [29:55]
B
Wife wanted to kick me out of the house.
- [29:56]
C
It's called Stugatsy company Live, which is available in podcast form right when the show finishes every single day. Some of the biggest names in sports, a lot of phone calls.
- [30:08]
A
I love you guys show.
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B
It's one of my favorites.
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C
A lot of interaction. Guys not taking themselves too serious seriously.
- [30:14]
B
Those are just some of the things.
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C
That you can expect from Stugots Co. And Stugots Co. Live. So listen to Stugots Co. Live and our original podcast. Please subscribe, rate and review Stugots Co. And God bless football. Taylor's livelihood depends on it. Do it today and you can check all of those out on the iHeartRadio.
- [30:36]
B
App, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. All right, two Truths and a lie. Here we go. I went to college with college football coach Jim McElwain. I began my broadcasting career doing play by play for the Las Vegas Stars, and I've been a Verizon customer for 15 years. Okay, I lied. All three are true. Verizon isn't as expensive as you think. In fact, if you bring in your AT&T or T mobile bill to a Verizon store, they'll give you a better deal. That's right, a better deal on the best network with the most ways to save on plans, streaming and phone deals. So take that AT and T or T Mobile build to your local Verizon store today, get a better deal and start saving based on root metrics. Best overall Mobile Network Performance U.S. 2nd Half 2025 All Rights Reserve Must provide recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply. Running a commercial plumbing or H Vac company isn't easy. You're driving revenue, managing payroll, coordinating marketing, juggling projects, and keeping customers satisfied all at once. You need software that keeps up. It's time to upgrade to Service Titan, the all in one solution built to help companies like yours run smarter, grow faster, and scale with confidence. See how the most successful contractors are doing it today with ServiceTitan. Visit ServiceTitan.com to learn more. That's ServiceTitan.com support for the show comes from public Huh. I wonder if this can beat the market. Everyone's talking about the NASDAQ 100, but let's get more specific. Software. Actually, too broad. How about software that's already profitable? Companies that beat the last five quarters. Oh, and I want founders who are marathon runners. That's discipline. Yes? Yeah, let's see what that looks like. With generated assets on public, you can turn any idea into an investable index. Just enter a prompt and watch the AI screen thousands of stocks in seconds. You can then back test your index against the S&P 500, make adjustments, refine your criteria, and when you're ready, invest in what you've built. Go to public.com and build your own index with generated assets, plus earn a 1% uncapped match when you transact for your portfolio. Public Investing for those who take it seriously Ad paid for by Public Holdings Brokerage services by Public Investing member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors SEC Registered Advisor Sample prompts are for illustrative purposes only, not investment advice. All investing involves risk of loss. See complete disclosures@public.com disclosures hey, it's Cavino and Rich. Whether you're actively trading or planning for the long term, Webull gives you the tools to invest your way. Trade stocks and ETFs with real time data, explore cash management, or build toward the future with IRAs and retirement accounts all on one platform. Now with Vegas, your personal market AI assistant can give you real time analysis, watch list insights and alerts when earnings drop. Download the Webull app today and visit webull.com and take control of your investments. Webull Financial LLC Member SIPC FINRA Investing involves risk.
- [33:38]
A
For more information, visit webull.com disclosures breaking.
- [33:42]
B
News not everything's terrible. We repeat, not everything is terrible. The ripple effect is proof that the Internet hasn't ruined humanity entirely. Hosted by Jenna Kim Jones, it's funny and uplifting Podcast spotlights the quiet, powerful ways people still choose good each episode features real stories of kindness, of barbers changing more than just their client's haircut, of the secret life, of leftover hotel soap, of vending machines that dispense just the help somebody needs. Like magic. If you're tired of outrage, if your thumbs are sore from doom scrolling, or if you just need a reason to smile again, this podcast is your new favorite scroll break. It's heartfelt, hopeful, a gentle reminder. Goodness is still out there. Surprisingly contagious too. So put down your phone, pick up your faith in humanity, and join Jenna for the ripple effect. It's a reminder that you can start a ripple that changes everything. Listen to the ripple effect on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Daniel Jeremiah knows his stuff. NFL draft. It is something we will discuss at length. First, though, J. Mack with the news.
- [34:53]
C
No, no, no.
- [34:55]
B
Turn on the news.
- [34:56]
A
This is the herd line news. Can't wait for that Daniel Jeremiah talk. But let's start with Max Crosby. Colin, he's making news. It's almost like, is it by design? Is he trying to pump up his IG followers? Anyways, Max Crosby's all over the news this last week, but he's now downplaying the rumors that he wants out. And he doubled down in an appearance on the let's Go podcast.
- [35:21]
B
Everyone's hit me up.
- [35:22]
C
Did you say this?
- [35:22]
A
Did you?
- [35:23]
B
It's, I can't control that. You earn that as a player. You know, if I wasn't doing the right things and if I wasn't the person and player I was, you know, people wouldn't be talking about all the nonsense. But that's what comes with it. I really don't care what everybody has to say. I used to a lot as a young guy. I really don't give a damn if you people could have their own opinions. I know what's going on. I know my truth. And I don't need to sit here and keep, you know, rehashing it to people that don't know what's going on. So I don't even. I don't even waste time with it.
- [35:55]
A
Okay? So, Colin, if we put those words on the screen, what he just said, it's a gigantic word salad. He essentially said nothing, revealed nothing about what he wants, which is good. He's a pro. And listen, I know people don't think I like Max Crosby. I've seen his basketball videos. He could definitely play on my men's league team. We would recruit him. But I don't. I just don't know why he's still talking about this Colin. You know, I know he's a veteran.
- [36:19]
B
But I think he is the missing piece for several top teams. I think Kansas City could use him, New England could use him. I think Matt Crosby is one of the, you know, free agency and trade guy doesn't really equal Super Bowl. I mean, if you go look at the Seahawks, Sam Darnold was obviously an exception where you bring a guy in a quarterback important position, you're like, oh, he was such an upgrade from Geno. I mean, the roster in Seattle last year was good. It went. I mean, they. How many rookies made an impact that John Snyder drafted this year to a guard and a safety? The roster was great with Geno Smith. Obviously, Darnold's the big part of it that goes next level. JSN was already in the building with Darnold. Suddenly he was great with Gino. He was frustrating or frustrated. So my point is, Crosby may not be a quarterback. There is no question. If you put him on New England next year with their interior defensive lineman, that is a. That's the best defensive line maybe in the sport. So, I mean, I think Crosby changed. I mean, New England's defensive tackles are excellent.
- [37:27]
A
Well, I'm not.
- [37:27]
B
You put Crosby on that D line in New England. Lights out.
- [37:31]
A
Okay, so. So is there a world where spy tech and the new coach Kubiak go to Crosby and say, hey, bro, we get it. Sounds like you want out. How about this? Don't do any more podcasts, Leave social media commentary to us. Don't talk about it, and we will get you where you want to go. And then, you know, you call up the Buffalo Bills and be like, oh, yeah, is Keon Coleman for sale? You know, the BS game that you play as a. As an executive.
- [37:56]
B
Oh, well.
- [37:56]
A
Yeah. So, Crosby, any interest? You're not calling about Max. You're calling about somebody else. But you work it in, like, call the contenders. Just do it quietly. I don't love this negativity. When you've got.
- [38:06]
B
You got to remember Max Crosby is a star. He goes on podcasts and they ask him about it. What is he supposed to say?
- [38:17]
A
The problem is that that's. We like authenticity. You and I love that. It gives us content.
- [38:21]
B
Everybody loves that.
- [38:21]
A
But it's going to mess with the locker room. You got a new head. Your first time head coach in Kubiak, rookie number one pick, likely in Mendoza. You got a Wobegon franchise in Vegas that can't win a damn thing. Like, why would you do this? You're messing with the fans heads.
- [38:35]
B
Like, I don't think it's messing with anything. I think he's been the silver lining for the silver and black for about seven years. I think he's the only redeemable part of this franchise in the last seven years.
- [38:45]
A
Are you sure it's silver and black or black and blue? I mean, these guys are getting their butts kicked every year by everyone.
- [38:50]
B
Like, I'm telling you right now, I love Max as a Raider, but if you could get two ones. Oh, you do that from New England. I think you have to consider it.
- [39:00]
A
I would pedal him to the NFC first. I don't want to have to see that guy hoisting the trophy in my conference. All right, let's go to the next story. That's Jaden Daniels. Dude, do you remember how much we talked about this guy last year as he guided Washington to the NFC championship? Well, this past season he did nothing because he was hurt. And now he's got a new OC in. Wait for it. David Blau, former Detroit Lions practice squad guy. I think he took a couple snaps. Here's Dan Quinn talking about how Jaden is going to look a little different this season. It'll look different some, JP in some.
- [39:35]
B
Ways as we're still kind of building some of the things together.
- [39:37]
A
But this is going to be like.
- [39:40]
B
An aggressive, balanced attack.
- [39:42]
A
But, like, that will probably have more.
- [39:44]
B
Under center than we have in the past. We're going to try to feature every part of Jaden in the way that makes him unique and special.
- [39:51]
A
Jaden's a big part of our thinking.
- [39:53]
B
In all the things that we do. He wasn't a part of the staff.
- [39:57]
A
Selection, but, like, he drives a lot of the thinking and how we can feature him and where it goes.
- [40:02]
B
And so having the ability to connect with him, that's certainly a big deal for us.
- [40:11]
A
All right, so you a pretty good stat here. Colin Warren Sharp, you know, he's a buddy.
- [40:16]
B
Sure, sure.
- [40:17]
A
So he charted under center dropbacks last season, where you're taking snaps from under center.
- [40:23]
B
Okay.
- [40:24]
A
Washington was dead last in the league. 17 snaps the whole season. Under center or, sorry, dropping back and it's like, dude, what are you doing? So maybe that's why they move off Kingsbury. They need to change it up. So now Jaden will be under center more. Guess who happened to be under center the most. As you can see on the chart here, Rams number one, Number two, by the way, in snaps under center, Chicago Bears number two. And all the teams at the top had a lot of success.
- [40:53]
B
You know, this is why the NFL is great. It's constantly evolving. It was an under center league, then it was a shotgun league. And now the better teams are going back under center. When you have a start, quarterback. So. And a lot of people like under center because a quarterback never takes his eyes off the defense. As defenses get more sophisticated, you know, in the shotgun, you look down for half a second or a second to get the snap, and the defense can shift at the snap of the ball. So I like a lot of the guys in the league that the offensive coordinators like, can, like, under center. So. Well, one of the things that is really cool about the NFL, you and I, baseball went forever without making changes. And then Rob Manfred over like a three year period, made multiple changes. They all worked. And a baseball now is so much more watchable now than five years ago. If you go watch a baseball game five years ago, go on YouTube. It's so slow. Yeah, it's like. It's like a rotary phone. Like, I can't do it. NBA's got things it needs to solve. Bill Simmons was talking about that this week. And they won't. They're like, well, we got paid. We made money from the networks. Like, your game's got like four major issues. I don't even think tanking is the biggest issue. The NFL is so cyclical. The rules. Pats don't look like they look. Kickoffs don't look like they look. The catch rule got tweaked. And I think part of what I love about football is, I mean, now suddenly it is. Seattle, by the way, was, oh, you got to go for it in fourth down. You know who didn't go it? Ford on fourth down this year, Denver. Seattle. Like, I just love the way the NFL is constantly shifting and changing and under center is coming back.
- [42:29]
A
Well, it's. It's. I don't know that that's like a rule. That's more of like a coach thing. McVeigh and Ben Johnson are at the cutting edge, so they realize the too high safety is taking away the big plays. How do you manipulate those guys? Put the quarterback under center. We may run the football. So what are the. What are the DBs doing? And that, I think, is a big reason why we're seeing under center now, because you have to respect the run game or they'll just matriculate down the three years.
- [42:53]
B
Three years ago, it may have been two. You and I were on the show. Everybody was like, running backs aren't Being paid. Yeah, nobody wants a running back. You and I went on the air and said, slow down. Running backs, especially for young quarterbacks, are like a life preserver. Tight ends and running backs, like, stop. Isn't it amazing that the MVP of the Super Bowl, Kenneth Walker, like it was three years ago, everybody's like, nobody wants to pay the running back. No, no, nobody wants to pay a running back. That second huge contract, everybody liked running back. Generally you didn't want to go a second big contract because it's the last position on offense. You can head hunt, you can hit them from anywhere they come through a line. You can hit them anywhere.
- [43:35]
A
So we were early on that I will say this. I think McVay going to three tight ends at times this year and having ultra success a lot is going to make people be like, do we need to go after more tight ends in free agency? And make sure to ask Jeremiah about this. He was just breaking down the tight ends. It doesn't seem like there's a lot of high end ones, but middle rounds, there could be some tight end value. And you got to be able to be flexible whether three wides, three tight ends, two running backs. NFL, just a smart league. Final story Con. Let's go to NBA All Stars Star Weekend. I know you're fired up. Very excited. Well, Kevin Durant also very excited. I can't tell if he's being real here or he's trying to stir the pot, but he's taking shots at some of the European gentlemen. Here we go.
- [44:20]
C
You should ask the Europeans if the, the world team, if they gonna compete. I mean, because we look at Luka Doncic and, and Nikola Jokic. Now let's go back and look at what they do at the All Star Game. Is that competition? So we haven't questioned what they've been doing, but we gonna question old heads and Americans. But these two dudes out there, Luca and, and Jokic, they don't care about the game at all. These dudes be laying on the floor, they shoot from half court. But you gotta worry about the old heads playing hard. I can read between the lines, bro.
- [44:54]
B
You know, he's not wrong on that. I mean, Jokic has no interest. None. Kevin Durant, your buddy Kevin Durant can be very funny.
- [45:03]
A
I like him now. He's. He's onto something. I'll be real though. Colin, Luka, Giannis, Jokic, these guys, international All Star games are nothing. They don't mean a damn thing. They play for championships overseas and that's what those guys are into here. Not some fluffy All Star game where there's no defense being played by guys who aren't great defenders anyway, you know, so KD's onto something. I don't know how you fix that when your best players in the league are international, don't care about the All Star game and don't play defense.
- [45:31]
B
I could do a show on four to five things the NBA needs to change.
- [45:35]
A
Please don't.
- [45:36]
B
I won't. Because the truth is, when we get to late April, May and June, the playoffs are going to be unbelievable. Every year in this space, when the football season ends and we start moving to the NBA and the stars aren't playing because, you know, they're resting. Either you're tanking or they're resting for the playoffs. They, you know, like people have like minutes, maybe privately on what they want to play. We all go crazy on the NBA. The playoffs will show up in May and they'll be really, really good.
- [46:04]
A
Yeah. By the way, 30, remember college basketball? 33 games. NBA 82. So, yeah, college guys got to go hard. You got to make the tournament. NBA 82, 8. Let's take a week off here, a week off there. Kind of like your summers when you're gallivanting globally with the other coastal league.
- [46:21]
B
I play less than LeBron in the summer. J. Mac with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie news live in Chicago. It's the Herd.
- [46:35]
A
Be sure to catch live editions of.
- [46:37]
B
The Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am.
- [46:39]
A
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.
- [46:44]
B
All right, two truths and a lie. Here we go. I went to college with college football coach Jim McElwain. I began my broadcasting career doing play by play for the Las Vegas Stars. And I've been a Verizon customer for 15 years. Okay, I lied. All three are true. Verizon isn't as expensive as you think. In fact, if you bring in your AT&T or T mobile bill to a Verizon store, they'll give you a better deal. That's right, a better deal on the best network with the most ways to save on plans, streaming and phone deals. So take that AT and T or T mobile bill to your local Verizon store today. Get a better deal and start saving based on root metrics. Best overall Mobile Network Performance US Second Half 2025 all rights reserve must provide reason Consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply. Running A commercial plumbing or H Vac company isn't easy. You're driving revenue, managing payroll, coordinating marketing, juggling projects and keeping customers satisfied all at once. You need softW keeps up. It's time to upgrade to Service Titan, the all in one solution built to help companies like yours run smarter, grow faster and scale with confidence. See how the most successful contractors are doing it today with Service Titan. Visit servicetitan.com to learn more. That's servicetitan.com support for the show comes from public so it kind of feels like there's two types of investing platforms. You got the old school brokerages that look like they were designed in like 1995. Then you have those other platforms, the ones that feel less like investing and more like a casino. Public is neither. It's the investing platform for people who actually take this stuff seriously. You know, people who are serious about building their wealth. Because on public you can build a portfolio of stocks and options and bonds and crypto without all the bugs or the confetti. Retirement accounts? Yep. High yield cash? Of course. They even have direct indexing. Honestly, this is what investing platform should look like. Modern design, simple to use, and customer support that actually cares. Go to public.comcowherd and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.comcowherd ad paid for by Public.
- [48:55]
A
Holdings Brokerage Services by Public Investing Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors SEC Registered Advisor Crypto Services by ZeroHash all investing involves risk of loss. See complete disclosures@public.com disclosures hey, it's Ben Mailer.
- [49:12]
B
Ready to tackle your financial goals with Webull? And you don't have to sit on the sidelines. Whether you're a rookie or a seasoned pro, Webull puts you in the game with powerful tools that help you make the moves you want. Trade stocks, options, ETFs and more. Or play the long game with cash management and retirement accounts all on one platform. We Bull's intuitive app pairs advanced analytics with real time data so you can read the defense, adjust your strategy and stay in control. And now meet Vega, your personal AI market assistant. Ask questions like Analyze my watch list or what's the outlook for this stock? And get real time stock analysis, volatility insights, and fundamentals that turn complex signals into plain English. Want a wider view of the field? Use portfolio X ray to spot trends, manage risk, and optimize the performance of your portfolio. So stop punting your financial future. Join Webull's community to discuss markets trending topics and ideas with fellow investors. Download the Webull app today and on mobile or desktop, that's W E B U L l or visit webull.com and stay ahead of the game. We Bull Financial LLC member S I P C Finra Investing involves risk. For more information, visit webull.com disclosures breaking news not Everything's terrible. We repeat, not everything is terrible. The Ripple Effect is proof that the Internet hasn't ruined humanity entirely. Hosted by Jenna Kim Jones, it's funny and uplifting Podcast spotlights the quiet, powerful ways people still choose good. Each episode features real stories of kindness, of barbers changing more than just their clients. Haircut of the secret life, of leftover hotel soap, of vending machines that dispense just the help somebody needs. Like magic. If you're tired of outrage, if your thumbs are sore from doom scrolling, or if you just need a reason to smile again, this podcast is your new favorite Scroll Break. It's heartfelt, hopeful, a gentle reminder. Goodness is still out there. Surprisingly contagious too. So put down your phone, pick up your faith in humanity and join Jenna for the Ripple Effect. It's a reminder that you can start a ripple that changes everything. Listen to the ripple effect on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [51:36]
A
Tonight on FS1 Speed Weeks is underway as the NASCAR cup series goes full throttle for the duel at Daytona. Pre race gets going at 6 Eastern with green flag flying at 7 to set the field for the Great American race.
- [51:53]
B
Hey, has it been confirmed, J. Mack, that licorice is bad for you? Because I've had six pieces today and I've never felt better in my life.
- [51:59]
A
Is this red licorice?
- [52:01]
B
It's unbelievable. I could knock down Twizzlers like a bowl of it and I never feel. I never once in my life have had licorice and thought, oh, that didn't agree with me. Yeah, every time I try Skittles I'm like on cloud nine.
- [52:15]
A
Yeah, Skittles. No sugar in that, so you should be good. No red dyes or anything. Yeah, you're all clear on that.
- [52:24]
B
You know, half the stuff you read in the Internet I don't even buy. Oh, you can't drink anymore? Well, I'm very stressed out last night and my cortisol levels were high so I knocked down a gin and soda. I felt like I was honestly Clark Ken, I was Superman.
- [52:37]
A
What was the stress? Was this because you have to stop talking about Sam Darnold?
- [52:41]
B
Now dealing with a lot of Your nonsense, It's very stressful. I gotta tell you. People always say, now the big trend is young people don't drink. That's a new problem. That's where all the fun is. I don't think I did anything in my 20s and 30s that was meaningful. Yeah, without a tequila shot or Corona. Like that's your problem if you don't want to have fun.
- [53:02]
A
You needed the liquid courage to talk to the ladies back in the day, right?
- [53:06]
B
Yeah.
- [53:06]
A
Yeah.
- [53:07]
B
Sometimes Ann gets mad at me. I need liquid courage to talk to Ann. She was fired up last night. I was like, I better have one.
- [53:13]
A
Oh, that's why you were upset. Okay. Not low maintenance. J. Mac, it's Ann was on your case. Got it. All right. Yeah. Hey, Valentine's Day is right around the corner, buddy. I hope you got your act together there.
- [53:24]
B
I know what Saturday is.
- [53:26]
A
Ok. Just making sure.
- [53:28]
B
Very few days a guy's got to get right. Anniversary. You may want to put that in your phone.
- [53:34]
A
Yeah.
- [53:35]
B
Valentine's Day. That one. That one kind of seems to matter a lot.
- [53:39]
A
Did you send Sam Darnold any roses or anything? Or, you know, just to make cover?
- [53:42]
B
All made contact through sources to Sam Darnold wishing him greatness going forward.
- [53:48]
C
That's great.
- [53:50]
B
Daniel Jeremiah is coming up next hour. I'm telling you, if you haven't read that stuff on the Kamingo Warrior, Steve Kerr, that was delicious. Not as good as licorice, but that was a great story. That was an unbelievable story. Nobody's talking about it because of the Super Bowl. Go read it. Think Verizon is expensive? Think again. Anyone can bring their AT&T or T Mobile bill to a Verizon store today and we'll give you a better deal. So bring us your bill. Walk in, run in, pogo, sticking, teleport. If you can ride on the back of a rollerblading yak or fly in on the wings of a majestic falcon. Any way you can bring your AT&T or T Mobile bill to a Verizon store today and we'll give you a better deal on the best network based on routemetrics.
- [54:34]
A
Best overall Mobile Network Performance US Second Half 2025.
- [54:36]
B
All rights reserved.
- [54:37]
A
Must provide very recent postpaid consumer mobile.
- [54:39]
B
Bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal.
- [54:40]
A
Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply.
- [54:41]
C
Everyone deserves to be connected.
- [54:43]
B
That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math. @t mobile.com switch and now T Mobile is in US cellular stores. Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the cost of optional benefits, plan features and taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits. Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required. Imagine never buying gas again. EVs are as easy to charge as your phone and perfect for everyday life. Drive daily with confidence everywhere you go. Most Americans drive 40 miles a day. Most EVs are equipped with 200 to 400 miles of range. They've got fewer parts, fewer repairs and fewer headaches. With hundreds of new and used EV models available today, there's an EV to fit every lifestyle and every budget. I love my electric vehicle. It's easy. No more gas stations. The way forward is electric. Learn more atelectric for all.org Wasabi is purpose built to free your business from skyrocketing storage costs and fees from the big guys. Wasabi is the go to provider for professional and collegiate sports teams around the world. Check out Wasabi's AI enabled intelligent media storage. Wasabi Air to the industry's only cloud storage service with triple protection against cyber criminals. Wasabi driving innovation in data storage for up to 80% less than the other guys. Try for free@wasabi.com Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage proud partner of the Volume Podcast Network.
- [56:19]
A
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [56:22]
B
Guaranteed human.