← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
THE HERD - Hour 2 - Raiders have the right pieces, taking a look at the WCF & ECF, Jim Jackson
00:41:43
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- [00:00]
Colin Cowherd
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.
- [00:05]
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- [01:25]
Colin Cowherd
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- [02:20]
Jim Jackson
Now let's get this party started.
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The Herd Line News Anchor
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
- [02:27]
Colin Cowherd
Here we go, hour two. It's Thursday. Great to be in just the pits when you're watching NBA basketball conference Finals finals and it probably gets determined by who's healthier. Good to have you in. So I thought this was interesting if you go look. One of the reasons I'm a fan of Fernando Mendoza and the Raiders is. I think the Raiders are the rare bad organization for a decade that finally got their coach and their GM right simultaneously got both right. And I actually think they had a great draft and great off season. So I don't think they feel like Baker Mayfield going to Cleveland. Who where I like their coaching quarterback, but I didn't like the opening roster. You don't. Where you get into trouble with rookie quarterbacks taken high is when you view them as saviors. Kyler Murray to Arizona. Save us. Zach Wilson, Jets. Sam Darnold, Jets. I would say Caleb Williams, first year in Chicago. Joe Burrow, first couple years in Cincinnati. You're starting immediately with a battle line. So you rush them into starting duty. They are not supported. They may not in many instances. Caleb William have the right coaching staff. Those guys fail. I do not. I've said this. It's very rare. Usually teams that have been in last place for years feel desperate. If you look at the Raiders sharp GM offensive coach, they have a legit left tackle, second best edge rusher in football, a potential star at tight end, running back. They went and got the best free agent center. Pretty important to the quarterback, Tyler Linderbaum. So now they have an elite left tackle in a center. They upgraded on defense, upgraded at wide receiver. They have a veter veteran quarterback in Kirk Cousins to help. So I'm like, guys, this is not, this is not Arizona with Kyler Murray here. Like, they've got the center, the left tackle, the weapons, the edge rusher. They've upgraded at wide receiver and linebacker. I, I, I don't know, it's, I did. Clint Kubiak was talking about Mendoza yesterday.
- [04:55]
Clint Kubiak
Anything that you put in front of him, he's going to attack it, you know, so anything that's new, he spends extra time on it. You can tell he fixes things from, from one day to the next. Very coachable as advertised. You know, he is not disappointed. He's working his tail off. It's very important to him. Asks a lot of great questions when he gets on the field. He's no bs. He's all ball.
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Colin Cowherd
Yeah, this is, you know, usually bad teams, you're like, well, they got no players. It's like, no. I kind of think it's like when Justin Herbert got to the Chargers, that a great OC and they had some good players. They didn't have the head coach. Right, Right. So you're like, okay, they're almost there. But they had some elements and Justin was excellent. I mean, if Kubak is as Good as I think gm, left tackle coach, elite defensive edge, Pro bowl center, star tight end, capable backs. By the way, I thought one of the steals in the draft was the Raiders fourth round. Mike Washington, running back, Arkansas, that's as good as steel. And he may be the best player from the fourth round. So they gentee and Washington. It's my take Jim Jackson, he's an analyst for the Clippers, also fox Sports and FS1. He's been doing playoff basketball for years. Is joining us now live. So I said last night, you remember Hacker Shack. And I remember I was, I was covering that Portland series and I mean it was ugly. I'm at the Staples and they needed security around Mike Dunleavy. It was ugly. But the truth is about hacking. Hack a Shaq, it worked to a smaller degree because Shaq was a bad free throw shooter. Wemby's not necessarily a bad free throw shooter. So what Hardenstein did last night, I think for a game, you tolerate it, you're not going to get those calls on the road in San Antonio. Secondly, I don't think Adam Silver is going to let you, for a 7 foot 4 athlete that's been dinged up, is not going to let you push, pull and drag him. So I'm watching Hartenstein last night and I'm like, this may win you the game tonight. I'm not sure that's a remedy for San Antonio. How did you view it having played in the NBA for 14 years?
- [07:11]
Jim Jackson
Well, first of all, it's good to be back on with you, Kyle, and hope all is well. Hope those cigars are treating you well too.
- [07:15]
Colin Cowherd
They are.
- [07:17]
Jim Jackson
Okay. That's my man. Finally stepped up your game. I love you. Took you some years, but you stepped it up. I love it, but bravo to you. But the game, like, listen, you've been around this before, especially when you're dealing with series, whether that's hockey, baseball or basketball, you got to win the small battles. It's in particular when you lose at home the first game when you're the favorite team. So being able to be more physical with Wimby at home, you got to take that. Keep in mind, you know, Mark, Mark Dagnaut and the Oklahoma City understand that the same kind of calls they got away with at home against okc, they're probably not going to get away with in San Antonio. Okay, they understand that. But you got to win these small battles. What I thought Hardenstein did a great job of with not only being physical with Wimby, but he attacked him on Angles on the offensive glass by moving Wemby around a lot, by getting Shay off the ball, forcing Wembley to have to shade towards the side of the court that SGA was on. That allowed Hardenstein to really impact the offensive rebounding game, which gave OKC a lot more possession. So will they be as physical in the next game? No. Now we'll tell at the very beginning of the game, Colin, because the officials are going to set the tone with that about how you're going to be able to guard Wemby, what the physicality is off the ball. Also keep your eye on that off the ball contact. A lot of officials understand that going to the basket you can test, okay, we can make those calls, but where they're really kind of laser pointing their sights and their emphasis is kind of off the ball. So keep, keep our eye on that early in the game, off the ball fouls. But also to how you can guard Wimby, especially when he's attacking the basket for the offensive rebound or when he's in transition.
- [09:09]
Colin Cowherd
You know, Adam Silver suggested about six months ago, he goes, listen, because of stadium deals, maybe we can't shrink the schedule. What if we, what if we took 12 minute quarters to 10 and it sounded kind of kooky, but I have last two years. Halliburton Tatum, Dylan Harper, J Dub, These are quads, ACLs, hammies, a lot of them, Jim, they're non contact injuries. Yeah, yeah. LeBron talked about earlier this year, he's like, the game is so fast that we're. These are soft tissue injuries, they're non contact. This is the second year in a row in the playoffs. It's going to be basically whoever's healthy wins. That's not what sports is about. I do think watching last night, we got, I mean, remember the Oklahoma City game this year with the Lakers, Austin, Reeves, Luca, boom, done. You're like, what in the world, I do wonder as a former, a former player, do you look at these injuries and think maybe the 10 minute quarters, it's not going to change basketball that much, is not a terrible idea.
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Jim Jackson
Well, it's not, but to me, the game itself, listen, back in the 50s, 60s, 70s, the game was up and down, okay? They had a fast temple game. People think that this is new, but what the difference is, it was more straight line, okay, that's back then they were scoring 115, 120 points in the 60s, 70s, okay, but it was more straight line. The movements, the quick twitch muscle side to side, the agility part, that's what's impacting players today. Okay. That's why you got a lot of these soft tissue non contact injuries. Now a lot has to do with individual workouts during the summer, how much stress they're putting on their bodies. Yes, we played ball back in the day, but it was more so one choreographed games. It wasn't individual workouts as much you did work on your game, don't get me wrong. But the amount of pressure that these young men and women are putting on their, placing on their bodies from a young age now when you start to build upon these games, when you start to play 60, 70, 80 games now, your body reacts in a different way. I don't know if reducing it to by was it eight minutes a game is going to counteract the activities in which these young men and women interact with in the summertime and how they train their bodies and how the game is being played. And also to think about it from a records perspective now puts a lot of those records that are already in place kind of at jeopardy. Because now you're trying to compare these young men and women. Well, young men, if they take it to 12, from 12 to 10, the records now in the NBA begin to be skewed because the number of minutes are different, the game is played a little bit differently. So I don't want to see it. I want to see some, some data on being able to pull back some of the training aspects to help these young men. So we do have our very best players playing basketball at the right time, which is now.
- [12:16]
Colin Cowherd
So I said it about the Knicks all year. I'm like they're good, but I'm not even sure they're very good. And then Mike Brown smartly.
- [12:24]
Jim Jackson
Why not? Well, why not?
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Colin Cowherd
Well, my, my take was on very good because your two best players were defensive liabilities. And then you go into these series now the East Eastern Conference is a mess. I mean Atlanta's not a good team. So but I thought you're two. But your two best players, one of them has to defend. Steph wasn't a great defender. Klay Thompson was. Right. Like, like if you go back to Magic wasn't a great defender. Well, he had Michael Cooper and they had Kareem guarding. Right. Like, so you have to have somebody if you have a star like a Luca or a Steph. That's not a great James Harden by the way, is he, he could always use, you know, Donovan Mitchell and Harden. Neither one's a great defender. I think they have a ceiling. So I said Cat Jalen Brunson. But what the real problem was to me as well as that was the team was too Brunson ball centric. So Mike Brown's like, we're going to have him play more off ball. Cat is now going to be point center, a little Jokic. And I got to tell you, I watch them now and I'm like, oh, it's a, it's a different offense. I feel like it's a. I mean we saw an eight seed Miami a couple years ago get to the finals like teams get hot. But I honestly, when I watch the Knicks now offensively there are times they look unstoppable. What could they, if they got past, could they match up to these two teams, do you think?
- [13:40]
Jim Jackson
I do. Let me go back to the part about the defensive liabilities. You think about this because of Jalen Brunson and Cat, but what you have anchoring that, just like you said about those other teams, Colin, you have Mikhail Bridges, Josh Harden, you have Mitchell inside. So you do have a base around those two. If they get beat, you do have some help. So you do have support from the defensive end. And I think that's why they've been much better late in the season too because those guys have really covered up for some of the mistakes that may happen between Jalen Brunson and Big Cat. But the way this team is playing, think about this. At the beginning of the season, you want to get the ball out of Jaden Brunson's hand to kind of eliminate the wear and tear on his body, get everybody else involved. But at times, man, you got to get the ball to your best player, especially when it's crunch time, you, he makes the play. So Mike Brown kind of, kind of put that to the side a little bit. But when you're in this situation, I've been around this for a long time. I haven't won a championship, but I've been deep in the playoffs and I've watched a lot of games, been to a lot of stuff, championship series. Each game is different. The playoffs are different. You have to be able to adjust offensively to what the defense is doing. So now they're placing Cleveland, Atlanta, these teams in a different situation that they haven't seen, which is Cat in the middle of the court, high elbow, initiating some offense. Now they have to go against a different game, defensive game plan that they studied. Now you're playing Jalen Brunson off the ball. When he gets it on that second side, now he's able to go before the Defense ship. That's just intelligent basketball to me. Now will Cleveland make the adjustment to that? Get up into Cat a little bit more, force him to be uncomfortable and not make those plays? Of course they will. But at the end of the day, this is the beauty about a seven game series. Colin is the game within the game. Each game has its own makeup. Each game is totally different. What we saw game one, game two for whatever with Cleveland. It may be different in game two. Okay, how they attack, but how New York will respond to that. But at the end of the day, number 11, you got to get the ball in his hands, okay? Whether that's off the ball, somebody else brings it up. He makes so many things happen. And now sometimes it might be ball centric, but at the end of the day for a coach, I want my best player with the ball in his hands so he can make decision that's called trust.
- [16:00]
Colin Cowherd
So you do NBA and college basketball. So I want to ask you about the draft. So it's a very, very good draft. I remember earlier in the year, back in November, somebody told me watch Darren Peterson. And Kansas was on like somebody texted me he's on tonight, watch him. I did. And I text that person. I feel like I'm watching 18 year old Kobe Bryant. I'm like, that kid's crazy. And then you know, you hear the hammy stuff. He missed a lot of games. And then I watched AJ Devonta who I don't think has quite the refined offensive game yet, but he's amazing. Cam Boozer, Caleb Wilson, Acuff. There's a lot of good players. If you were a GM and you do a lot of college basketball, who would you pick number one and why?
- [16:45]
Jim Jackson
Well, AJ DeVonta has probably the highest ceiling out of that group. Darren Peterson is probably the more defined player along with Cam Boozer as far as how they play. NBA ready. I had Darren Peterson against Baylor. I mean the difference with him and other college players, how he got to his spots was incredible. Now he was limited a lot by the cramps and sometimes being taken out of the game. So we didn't get the full breadth of how good this young man can be. Plus he's from Ohio, you know, so you know, you know what I'm saying? God, I got to give him some love there. But each but the highest motor. Caleb Wilson is kind of like a KG type relentless guy, has a chip on his shoulder. You compare a cup I had him at during the tournament to a Dame Lillard. His control of the game, the ability to get to his spots to set up his teammates and for a high usage player, highly intelligent because he didn't turn the ball over. So this draft in itself, Colin is like okay, what are our needs and what happens is the trickle down effect. That first pick is going to dictate and make that second pick on where everybody lies. Because I call games for the Clippers. We were able through the Indiana.
- [18:05]
Colin Cowherd
Just lost his audio. Jim Jackson. So he does call games for the Clippers. I've not heard that acuff he his comp is Dame Lillard which is little small not going to defend but is a bucket. Is he there? Can you hear? Okay now Jim is back so. So with what you said, let me center in on one player. So I had a scout in the Eastern Conference say I like Cam Boozer. I'm not sure he's ever an all star. I'm hearing people this week say, oh I take him number one. Give me your Carlos Boozer wasn't the most athletic guy either, but he's a solid veteran. Break down Cam Boozer for me. What is he going to look like as a pro?
- [18:48]
Jim Jackson
Okay, let me, let me, let me posture this by saying this. 5 of our top maybe 10 players are non athletic players. Jokic Sengun, Jalen Brunson, Luka Doncic, sga. You can even throw Jason Tatum because he's not overly athletic. Okay, but what do they have? They have skill set, they know how to play, they facilitate, they rebound, they shoot. Cam Boozer fits that category. Okay, Derrick Queen down in New Orleans is not the most athletic player but he's going to be a dominant force in his league. You know why? Because they know how to play the game. So so much we're getting caught into. He's not at. He's not as athletic. But what about the iq, the ability to dissect the game? Big shot moments he doesn't run from. Okay, so will he be a cat? I don't know. But I tell you one thing, he will be a solid NBA player that could make an all star game depending on the team that he goes to and how he's surrounded. But the ability to play the game to me and I just broke down those five players that I gave that are non athletic players and they all had a similar conversation about what? Jalen Brunson, what can he play? He went in the second round. Colin, he can't defend at the point guard. He's too slow. Can he get by people? Okay, well where's those scouts at right now? Okay, Sengun well, he's a little overweight, chubby, he doesn't get off the ground. Jokic, look where they're at because it's in here. And now you surround them with the right chemistry, the right players, and all of that flourishes. So to me, I love Kambusa for how he plays the game. And that's what you want with a young player. The maturity, the intellect, but the ability in the heat of the moment. And I had a. I saw a lot of his games and had their game as well when it counted. He was right there. He was there. Not afraid of the moment.
- [20:52]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, the. As we watch Wemby, I said, nothing really compares to him. I do think if you go back to the Go take Lu Al Cinder last two years at ucla, first three years in Milwaukee, when he ran the floor. I've seen video of it. I don't remember it. I've seen video. He played with Oscar, right? And I'm like, Wemby, you know, he can't shoot threes like Wemby, but nobody did. I'm like, that's the only player I've ever seen that I thought there was about a six year period with Lu Alcinder and Cream, that it was like, I can't believe he runs the floor like that. There's old, old video at ucla. I'm like, that is crazy.
- [21:37]
Jim Jackson
How about the high school take when he was running? When the high school Lu Alcinder, who to me, by the way, collectively is the greatest basketball player collectively high school, college pro. If you put all of his accolades together, what he was able to accomplish throughout his career, okay, Just pure basketball. Nothing really stacks up to that. Now let me throw a name. And I said this from the very beginning. Ralph Sampson. Ralph Sampson at Virginia. Three time National College Player of the Year at 7 4. The agility, the ability. Jump hook, the sky hook. I had a nice little jump shot. He impacted defense at the rim. Now this is Ralph Sampson, Wimby 5.0, okay? That's because his ability to stretch the court, to put it on the deck, to attack off the dribble. The comparisons to me with Ralph, because of body size, the ability to block shots, the ability to run the floor, to make plays off the dribble, okay, are eerily similar, okay? But what Wemby brings to the table because he was once a guard, is his ability at 7 6, 77 or whatever he may be, Colin, to go off two dribbles and pull up to in transition that first OKC game near the local to Catch and shoot. That's. That's the evolution of where the game is at. And you see a Ralph Sampson type player and what Wimby is able to do and how he's able to impact the game. And think about this Callum, he's just now learning how really to play his body. He gets bumped, he's off balance at times. His body has not caught up with his skill set yet. Give him two to three years. I'm not saying he has to put on weight. He's going to physically mature, okay? And now you're not going to be able to bump him as much. Move him off his spot, get up underneath him a lot like when Dirk got in the league. I remember Garden Dirk when I was in Sacramento, this is 2002. I could get up into Dirk and move him off his spot. Two to three years later, that wasn't happening. It just wasn't happening, you know, and that's what I see with Wemby, his evolution. But once again with the spurs, look how he's surrounded. Look who's around him. That allows him the freedom to do what he needs to do, the space in which he needs to work, in the ability to create. Because he's still not a high volume shooter. He's so unselfish with the ball. So we're just seeing a microcosm about. Think how great and impactful this young man is ultimately going to be.
- [24:27]
Colin Cowherd
Jim Jackson. Maybe I'll have a David off tonight in the backyard.
- [24:31]
Jim Jackson
Hey, listen, listen, listen. They have a Dominican one right now. And I'm a big Cuban guy, but this. And I love Davido, but this one here, Colin, trust me when I tell you they went Nicaraguan a few years ago. They tapped into the Dominican market. It is tasty.
- [24:51]
Colin Cowherd
Jim Jackson, great seeing you as always, buddy.
- [24:55]
Jim Jackson
Always, brother. All right, you too, man. Joyce, how's Chicago treating you, man?
- [24:59]
Colin Cowherd
Oh, I love it. I love Chicago.
- [25:02]
Jim Jackson
Even in the winter. Are you crazy?
- [25:04]
Colin Cowherd
I like it in the winter.
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Jim Jackson
Exactly.
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Colin Cowherd
I love it in the summer. Fall, I like it.
- [25:11]
Jim Jackson
So you like, you like three months, four months. Okay. There we go. All right. Talk to you, brother.
- [25:19]
Colin Cowherd
You bet.
- [25:19]
Jim Jackson
All right.
- [25:20]
Colin Cowherd
He does a lot of college basketball. You know, it's always funny whenever Ralph Sampson. Jason, when Ralph Sampson's name comes up. So you're too young.
- [25:29]
Rachel Nichols
Well, he was in. He was at uva, and I was. I was growing up in Virginia, but yeah, he was.
- [25:34]
Colin Cowherd
I can remember games with Dick Enberg, Billy Packer and Al McGuire. Ralph Sampson for three years was the face of college basketball. In Virginia. And I. One time when I worked at the other place, I was in line for lunch and all of a sudden I'm just talking, talking, and I'm talking and this young lady in front of me, I talk to everybody. She mentions Ralph Sampson's her dad. That poor girl. I spent 10 minutes telling her Ralph Sampson stories. And I'm thinking, oh, it's her dad. She probably. He was. I mean, that was when. I mean, the acc, the Big East. If you didn't see Ralph Sampson play, it just. It was like the Wemby discussions.
- [26:13]
Rachel Nichols
But by the way, when Wemby hits the ground, do you not, like just kind of sort of send up a quick prayer? Because he started doing this thing with the wrist. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, his wrist is broken. It's over. Because he. He violently falls to the ground. He's like a little like a young baby who's just learning to walk and just keeps falling down. A baby giraffe, maybe. And I just get worried for Wemby. And I remember Ralph Sampson being a toothpick.
- [26:35]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I remember saying this a couple years ago on the air about Anthony Davis. Like he was playing too much outside. He would slash to the rim, be a cutter. I'm like, Anthony, stay within 10ft of the basket. Stop all the cutting. You're ending up on the floor constantly. Anthony Davis had about a two year stretch where he didn't get hurt because he reestablished himself 12ft in. I don't want Anthony Davis cutting through the lane. Like sometimes with Wemby. I'm like, bro, just go park it low.
- [27:02]
Rachel Nichols
Patrick Ewing, Elijah, Juan, Shaq, David Robinson. These guys were always healthy because all they did was sit in the post. They're not doing all these glamorous moves trying to take you off the dribble. Wemby's trying to take guys off the bounce from the three point line. Colin. It's like he forgets how big and long he is. It's just awkward sometimes.
- [27:19]
The Herd Line News Anchor
One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app search heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.
- [27:29]
Ben Maller
Hey, it's Ben, host of the fifth hour with Ben Maller. Would mean a lot to have you join us on our weekly auditory journey. You're asking, what in God's name is the fifth hour?
- [27:38]
The Herd Line News Anchor
I'll tell you.
- [27:38]
Ben Maller
It's a spin off of the Ben Ma show, a cult hit overnights on fsr. Why should you listen? Picture if you will. A world where we chat with captains of industry in media, sports and more every week. Explore some amazing things, facts about human nature and more. Listen to the fifth hour with Ben Mather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast brought
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- [28:45]
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to always have a few financial goals
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Colin Cowherd
and a really smart one.
- [28:48]
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You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover you can get this Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. I mean, after all, you listen to this show. See terms@discover.com credit card Imagine never buying gas again.
- [29:11]
Colin Cowherd
EVs are as easy to charge as your phone and perfect for everyday life. Drive daily with confidence everywhere you go. Most Americans drive 40 miles a day. Most EVs are equipped with 200 to 400 miles of range. They've got fewer parts, fewer repairs and fewer headaches. With hundreds of new and used EV models available today, there's an EV to fit every lifestyle and every budget. I love my electric vehicle. It's easy. No more gas stations. The way forward is electric. Learn more atelectric for all.org Save on
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- [30:20]
Colin Cowherd
I can't wait to watch that documentary. Now, with the World cup, we have a team that has all sorts of skill and we're not playing well. So the World cup is fascinating. We got, we have drama. You know, with the World cup, it's every four years. So you're trying to, you want to be healthy and you want to kind of be clicking. You want your young players to kind of be coming into their own. Your old players are healthy. We don't have a lot of old players and our young guys are not clicking. So the World cup is going to be. And it's on our soil. It's going to be absolutely fascinating. I. And it's just the opposite. I mean, our, our World cup team, the United States men's national team, is the opposite of every other team. We actually do have multiple scores, great skill, and we're not very good in goal. Now, we never like our coach, especially if we lose. We always want to fire him. We always blame the coach for everything. But we generally come in unified to the World Cup. I always feel like, hey, we, we don't have, you know, we may not have the Netherlands or France or, you know, the talent, but we come in unified. Now we have talent. Maybe that's just what happens with ego. Now we have the talent. And I'm not 21 days until the World cup, three weeks out. And I'm not sure our chemistry is good. They like the coach. We're not good in goal. It's just the opposite of all our issues. I mean, maybe that's just the reality of, you know, a big budget movie. We've got, we've got global players now. We've all got a little more entitlement. But I don't know. I've never gone into a World Cup. I always kind of knew. Here's our ceiling. Can we get out of the group stage? I mean, could we be one of the eight most talented teams? I don't think that's crazy anymore. I. I don't know. For getting out of the group stage, I have no idea. Chemistry feels weird. J Mac with the news.
- [32:07]
Jim Jackson
No, no, turn on the news.
- [32:09]
The Herd Line News Anchor
This is the Herd line news.
- [32:12]
Rachel Nichols
All right, speaking of chemistry, let's go to Aaron Rodgers and Mike McCarthy. And I know people are kind of worn out on Rogers, but this is an interesting1. Okay. McCarthy seems very excited that he's having a full circle moment with Aaron Rodgers. Now, we have some great backstory on this, but first, let's just hear a little quote about the McCarthy Rogers reunion.
- [32:36]
Tyler Dunn
I encouraged him for an outside perspective to interview Mike. Not thinking that he even would, honestly. Just because the way the league goes and the trend, you know, it's kind of like whoever worked with Sean, you know, Kyle or one of those guys, Matt now, you know, gets a. You know, a lot of looks and multiple guys in those trees have. But. But then when it became more serious, I was thinking, wow, that'd be really interesting thought to come back and play with Mike.
- [33:13]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. It did not end on good terms.
- [33:15]
Rachel Nichols
Okay, I'm glad you said that. So a friend of the show, Tyler Dunn, who comes on regularly, he's the one who wrote the article about the breakup. Colin. I was just reading it during the commercial break. It was nasty.
- [33:26]
Colin Cowherd
Oh, yeah.
- [33:27]
Rachel Nichols
Some of the stuff in there. Rogers and McCarthy wouldn't get along. McCarthy would send in a play on the headset. Rodgers would just look at his teammates and go, no. And then McCarthy was so sick of him. According to this article by Tyler Dunn, he would just check out of the team building and go get massages. And a lot of it dates back to the draft. You know, Rodgers felt very slighted. The O.C. of the Niners who had the number one pick was McCarthy.
- [33:50]
Colin Cowherd
Right.
- [33:50]
Rachel Nichols
They ended up taking Alex Smith. Rodgers held that against him.
- [33:54]
Colin Cowherd
Well. And Aaron. Aaron's history. And even Aaron, he may not admit this. He's been a little bit of a grudge holder.
- [33:59]
Rachel Nichols
You think?
- [34:00]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. Aaron's not been, hey, let's wash our hands of it. Aaron's been. He can be a little petty, a little bit of a grudge holder. So, I mean, again, this is camp. Everybody is in good mood. But I said this. This idea that everything was good. I had it sourced with two people in that huddle, you know, like. Like it wasn't always great. It was pretty ugly that final year.
- [34:22]
Jim Jackson
Yeah.
- [34:22]
Rachel Nichols
Now. Now, to be fair, there is a world where this is Kumbaya early. We've talked about the schedule.
- [34:28]
Jim Jackson
Yeah.
- [34:28]
Rachel Nichols
Maybe they get going early. They're six and two. Everything's great, Colin. I just care about what happens when the adversity hits coming out of the buy. Bengals, that's a tough game. There'll be dogs, Eagles, back to back. That's rough. Broncos, you love. Texans, Jags, Ravens. That is a gauntlet of five straight. You think it falls apart?
- [34:49]
Colin Cowherd
Well, I think Pittsburgh. I don't think Pittsburgh's as good as Philadelphia or Denver or Houston and Baltimore's roster. So, you know, it's like LeBron said, you know, about losing OKC. We didn't get out, hustled we didn't get outsmarted. We got outplayed because they have more talent. I think Pittsburgh's roster solid. I thought Aaron did a good job to kind of galvanize the offensive line last year, but I don't think it's a. I don't think they have a great GM currently. I don't think it's a great roster. I mean, their leading receiver last year I think was a running back.
- [35:19]
Rachel Nichols
Yep.
- [35:20]
Colin Cowherd
I mean, I mean, so they were dumping the ball off to a running back because Aaron didn't trust his protection. You know, they didn't have a number two receiver. So, you know, one of the reasons I defended Aaron, it's a broken culture. He kind of fixed it. And they don't have enough when DK Metcalf got suspended for two games. Who do you throw to? I mean, they did. I mean, tight ends, tight ends. And Washington got banged up late and it's like just. There's not a lot to work with here. So I don't think their roster is that great.
- [35:47]
Rachel Nichols
Agreed. All right, let's move to the NBA. Colin, it was the dunk heard round the world last night. My man, Stefan Castle. Take a look at this, Colin. Unbelievable thunder. I mean that is just violence. I watched this probably 73 times since it happened. I. In the moment I'm like, that might be the greatest dunk I've ever seen in the playoffs. Some people mentioned the Scottie Pippen over Patrick Ewing. You remember that one in Chicago. This was on the road so the crowd didn't go crazy. I mean, Colin, that is unbelievable. I need your thoughts on this because you haven't spoken on it yet.
- [36:20]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, it's. It's always the great dunks are usually like this. You get a running start almost all great. I think the best in game dunker I've ever seen is Vince Carter.
- [36:31]
Rachel Nichols
Yeah.
- [36:32]
Colin Cowherd
I think Michael Jordan, Dr. J are the next tier. I mean Dr. Some of Dr. J's dunks look like slam dunk contest dunks in games. So there's Vince Carter, mj. There was a guy named David Thompson.
- [36:46]
Rachel Nichols
Yes.
- [36:47]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, David Thompson.
- [36:48]
Jim Jackson
I.
- [36:49]
Rachel Nichols
He.
- [36:49]
Colin Cowherd
David Thompson played in the aba, I think for Denver. There's some video on him. Clyde Drexler, by the way in college and pros was Dominique Wilkins, obviously is a legend. I remember where I was. I worked at the NBC affiliate in Vegas and we used to have a news sports feed that came every night and I got a piece of video of some guy at the University of Georgia. I didn't know his name. And I couldn't because back then we didn't have the, the Internet and computers. I'm like, who is this? It was Dominic Wolf.
- [37:24]
Rachel Nichols
So, hey, let me ask you about Castle because he's catching a lot of Heat today. Nine turnovers. He has 20 turnovers in two games.
- [37:30]
Colin Cowherd
Well, he's not a point.
- [37:31]
Rachel Nichols
He's not a point guard. He's 21 years old. Their point guard, De' Aaron Fox is out. Then Harper gets hurt last night. He's out. And oh, by the way, Steph, can you go guard the two time mvp? We need you to lock him up.
- [37:43]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [37:45]
Rachel Nichols
Like, are we really gonna bury Castle for this now? He is making, he's I think his assister. He has 18 or 19 assists and 20 turnovers.
- [37:53]
Colin Cowherd
Well, yeah, we're not everybody. I mean let's, let's be honest. He's being asked to do something.
- [37:58]
Rachel Nichols
Yeah.
- [37:59]
Colin Cowherd
Which he's good enough to do at high school AU and college. When you get to the NBA. Yeah. And you're not only in the NBA, you're facing Oklahoma City. So he's good enough to be point against 90% of the league. Yeah. But to ask him in a road game against the desperate Oklahoma City team to play point for the best trapping defensive team in the league. That's. He's good enough to play point. Most of the time. That environment. He's not a point guard. And you know, you're seeing the numbers. He's still wildly productive. But that, that's a, that's a huge ask. You know, it's. Again, rookie quarterbacks can be all. Fine, fine. You didn't want him playing Ray Lewis in the Ravens in Baltimore on a Sunday night. Like that's not where a rookie quarterback. They're going to be completely overwhelmed. You need like Brady's 18 years of playing. So it's just too big of an ass for him to play a position he doesn't. Against that defense.
- [38:55]
Rachel Nichols
By the way, he led them in points last night. My favorite was. Well, Magic Johnson filled in at center for Kareem Abdul Jabbar as a rookie. Do you remember that?
- [39:03]
Colin Cowherd
Yes. I watched the game.
- [39:04]
Rachel Nichols
Steph Castle's not Magic Johnson. Sure, I'll accept that. Like, what are we doing?
- [39:10]
Colin Cowherd
People just.
- [39:10]
Rachel Nichols
People are crazy right now.
- [39:11]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. And also. Yeah, yeah, that's an all time great.
- [39:16]
Rachel Nichols
What are we doing?
- [39:16]
Colin Cowherd
And it threw the Sixers. You didn't know what to do. When Magic played center, it was like, what is going on? All you asked Stefan Castle, you know, you just. He has the Ball in his hands. Now you're saying we want it in your hands all the time. It's just. I mean, listen, the downside to youth, you get all this great energy, but we see all your flaws live and on tv. And Oklahoma City's defense is built to create flaw. It's going to heighten all your flaws. You could be a slightly flawed player and you play OKC desperate last night, and it. It makes your flaws look like huge liabilities. You wouldn't have seen nine turnovers against 90% of the teams in the league.
- [39:57]
Rachel Nichols
Final story column is Kyrie Irving. Now, I've been mentioning the Detroit Pistons as a potential landing spot for Kyrie Irving. There are reports emerging that multiple contenders are monitoring Kyrie. Now, he is 34 years old. He's coming off an ACL. These are not great things.
- [40:14]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I wouldn't.
- [40:15]
Rachel Nichols
It seems like the Mavs are going to move on. Messiah Giri, the new president is doing a full reset. Anthony Davis, very likely to be shipped out of town. I'm just curious. Kyrie Irving, any. Do you think he's appealing? Because, remember, Luca got Kyrie and they went to the finals. Now, this was 2024.
- [40:33]
Colin Cowherd
Well, this. Okay, let me ask you. Does he become like an older LeBron or an older Carmelo? Anthony like Carmelo, hey, we need you off the bench. Or does he become like. Is Kyrie a third option? You're not. He's not. I'm not building my franchise around him. I can't trust him as a 2. Is Kyrie into that stage as an old star where it's like, yo, bro, we just needed to play 22 minutes and be magical in these 22 minutes. But I'm not building my offense around you. And the question becomes, for LeBron James, are you willing to be a three?
- [41:03]
Rachel Nichols
One of the spiciest teams. Colin, that emerged is Anthony Edwards. Minnesota Timberwolves. There's a report that Ant is lobbying. Can we get Kyrie in here? The idea being, I need another offensive creator. I'm doing everything. Mike Conley's old. The idea of Ant and Kyrie together is pretty nasty.
- [41:21]
Colin Cowherd
But Minnesota demands that you play defense.
- [41:24]
Rachel Nichols
That's the thing, Finch. I don't think he's going to put up with that. But riddle me this. If would you move off Rudy Gobert to bring in Kyrie Irving? I mean, you still got Nas Reed, you got Jaden McDaniels. I know you want to move Randall. I think that would be a good trade. I don't know if the Mavs want to do that, but you get rim protection. Oh wait, they've got that in Gafford and Lively. So a lot of moving parts here. I think Kyrie will be on another team for sure this fall.
- [41:50]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. J Mac with the news well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by
- [41:56]
The Herd Line News Anchor
the Herd LIE News
- [42:00]
Colin Cowherd
in Chicago. It's the Herd.
- [42:06]
The Herd Line News Anchor
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.
- [42:16]
Rachel Nichols
Saturday night is Baseball Night on Fox and this week we got the reigning champs again as Shohei Freeman and Betts take on the brewers or Cardinals Reds Saturday 7 Eastern only on Fox.
- [42:29]
Colin Cowherd
So I don't agree with a lot of the personnel decisions in this but the Athletic had they released they rated players and they haven't released tier one yet. But they have five tiers and then sub tiers. I have strong disagreements on all of them. Well on a lot of them I I I Jalen Brown as not a tier one player is Cooper Flags a tier three player? Um, I mean they've got but I thought it was interesting just for a thinking exercise like they have Austin reeves in tier 3 but not the top tier in tier 3, 3B. I think that's kind of reasonable. But I mean they they have him in the same Tier Group as OG on an OBI and I think if you asked every NBA GM who you would take, I think a 30 out of 30 would go with OG just because he's such a big strong 3 and D guy. I mean he's every everybody I've ever talked to that is a scout or an NBA person. They all love og. Austin Reeves a very good player. Yeah. So Jaren Jackson, that's a pretty strong player. So anyway be that as it may but what what tier 3B players are viewed as as they should be the third best player on your team. And my take on Austin is he deserves to get paid but there is a big gap from 240 million and 180 because you can move a 180 contract much easier than a 240 million. And Austin back to back years has been banged up in the playoffs, little exposed defensively athletically, but deserves his money. Fun to watch, good player, tough as nails. But Rachel Nichols says regardless of the contract, the Lakers love him. He's got good vibes around the league.
- [44:22]
Matt Hasselbeck
The kind of player he is, the offensive spark that he is. I think the Lakers are going to be forced to pay him more than they would ideally want to. Because he is such an important cog of their team.
- [44:34]
Jim Jackson
Because.
- [44:35]
Matt Hasselbeck
Because Luca, that is his guy, and they cannot take away someone who is going to make Luca more comfortable on the court. So they're going to have to pay him what he wants to be paid, in my opinion, because there are plenty of other teams that would make an offer on him.
- [44:50]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I. I said this earlier. I think he fits the Chicago Bulls really well with the Lakers. If LeBron's not taking a league minimum and you're playing a max for Luka, and it's a team that's in desperate need of, like 2 OG on anobis. I mean, they just don't have twitchy, switchable wing defenders, nor do they have a rim defender. I mean, the Lakers need three players who are very good defensive players to compete with OKC in San Antonio. So. And I think Austin, LeBron and Luca. There's some duplication there. I said yesterday, it's like having breakfast. You have 12 eggs, no toast, no bacon, no sausage, no coffee, no butter, but you got all sorts of eggs. Like, at some point, there's a lot of duplication here. Kids going to get paid. Kid deserves to get paid. But it's just, it's interesting and I don't agree with a lot of the tearing. There's a lot of players I would, I would. I like more than where they end up, but, you know, we'll see. Matt Hasselbeck stops by final hour. A lot of stuff going on. Beautiful day in Chicago. Maybe. Maybe Sun Bay later today. Take the shirt off. Walk around the park later today. This is an iHeart podcast.
- [46:04]
Rachel Nichols
Guaranteed Human.