← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
THE HERD - Hour 2 - The Knicks are on a roll, more on Aaron Rodgers coming back to the Steelers, David Fizdale, Mike DeFabo
00:41:55
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- [00:00]
Colin Cowherd
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.
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Covino
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Mike Defebo
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Covino
That seems surprising. Surprising but true.
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Covino
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Mike Defebo
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Covino
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Mike Defebo
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Covino
Could you whip one up in under eight?
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Mike Defebo
Probably. But hey, it's not a race. Grab the recipes on TikTok and start cooking.
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Covino
Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports radio at noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd@foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go, hour two today. By the way, we're going to go to Pittsburgh at the end of this hour. Mike defebo because Aaron Rodgers. The big story is Aaron Rodgers is going to be in town this weekend. There were some Arizona rumors. Aaron, he just wants to be paid fair market value. Last year he made 10 million bucks and he was a top 15 quarterback. So I mean, Aaron Rodgers was easily the most under player, underpaid pair player in the league last year. So he ion team Aaron on this one. You know, you, everybody thinks, you know, it's okay for hall of Fame level quarterbacks even past their prime. It doesn't matter what sport you're in. I mean, LeBron's, you know, this point, still great. That's an exception. Generally as you get older, you're not the same player. Aaron's not the Same player at 42. In terms of quarterback via viability, he doesn't viability, he doesn't want to get hit so he checks down more, throws to the running backs more. I would say the Steelers offense with Aaron got much better, much smarter. The, the floor was much higher, the ceiling isn't ideal, but he's more of a checkdown guy. They don't have a lot of downfield weapons, so Aaron gets rid of the ball really fast. You know, the average yards per attempt is kind of below where you want it. But again, they, they don't have a plan at quarterback. You know, I was just saying the New York Giants, I predicted before the draft, I said they're going to draft their first pick, they're going to take the best player available in their second pick. Even though they don't need tomorrow, an offensive tackle at the number 10 pick will be a tackle, just like the Rams taking Ty Simpson. I said not all draft picks are about yesterday or tomorrow. A lot of them are about three years down the road. Ty Simpson and the Giants taking a tackle and I think that's really smart. The Steelers, My biggest issue with the Steelers, they have no game plan at quarterback. They treat it like an off ball linebacker. It's like Big Ben was getting old seven years ago. You know, he had his last great year six years ago and they didn't have any plans. So you're kind of stuck with Aaron. Thank God he's still available. He is still better than average. But there's limitations. The AFC has the better quarterbacks, the NFC has the better rosters. So in terms of viability in the AFC, if I had to rank the top 10 quarterbacks, and I'm not exact on this stuff, but it feels like they kind of fall into three or four groups. The, the three best quarterbacks to me in the AFC feel like Allan Mahomes and Burrow. Now Burrow doesn't have much to work with, but. And it didn't get to the playoffs last two years, but he's a great quarterback. Then I feel it's like Herbert, Lamar and Drake, huge upside. Sometimes their floor is a little lower. They make more mistakes. Then I think it's C.J. stroud, Trevor Lawrence, Bonicks, very good, if not great young quarterback. So it goes from the legends to the really gifted that sometimes aren't quite as consistent to very good young quarterbacks. And then I think Aaron's kind of 10, which is cagey, smart old guy, doesn't want to get hit, gets rid of the ball quickly, doesn't have. He's a very high floor, low ceiling quarterback, but the team likes him. The Steelers, pre Aaron and now are different teams. They were atrocious offensively. They may not be special, but they're solid. Plus, here's Hasselbeck on Aaron.
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Mike Defebo
His teammates love him like his Pittsburgh Steelers teammates. They respect him. And for me, that's the number one thing. I was at the draft, I was in Pittsburgh and just around a lot of the current Steeler guys. Like that's their guy. They're fully, fully counting on him showing up in Pittsburgh and trying to make a run at the Lombardi. So it would be shocking to me if it did go the other way.
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Covino
And with that, David Fisdale coached in the NBA four years, two Knicks, two Grizzlies. He is now joining us live. So I want to, you know, it's really interesting that it goes and it's good seeing you look great. As always, you're aging very, very well. The reality of the NBA is sometimes you can have a great player, Joe lmb, but there's injuries, there's cost, there's. He's a little bit of a ball stopper. There's pace of play doesn't mean he's not great. He's going to be a Hall of Famer. But they have Edgecomb, they have Maxi. These are tremendously gifted, dynamic players. And Embiid leaves last night and they should have won the game. They were exhausted, they have no bench, they were shot. They should have won the game. They just could not shoot. And this is not a criticism of a Embiid, it's more of a reality is if I ran the Sixers, my take is we've done the Embiid thing. I just need continuity and health. And I don't get it with the big guy. Do you have those uncomfortable conversations if this series doesn't work out? Like it may not?
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Colin Cowherd
I think you do have to have it because he was just so in and out all year. And if you look at what Maxey and Edgecomb and those guys did without him to hold it down, even without Paul George as well, those guys held it down and they play with a certain tenacity and a certain speed. They have their own identity. When they don't have Embiid out there now, Embiid being out there for the playoffs, you need him. Like, he's for this team right now. He's everything. Because when the game slows down, you're posting them. When you need a pick and pop, jump shot or a trail three, he's knocking that down. He's one of the few bigs in the league that covers all three ranges and does it well. And so, you know, it's just unfortunate that his body keeps going through this. And I personally, I do think if this is how it continues throughout the rest of the series and they don't win this series, they do need to at least start having some conversations about, you know, the potential of not having a Joel Embiid and maybe having to move on and, you know, trading him for some serious assets.
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Covino
Yeah, his, his, his guaranteed extension, 192 million guaranteed, fully guaranteed kicks in next year. So it becomes very p. You know, for years and years, I had this theory, I think I'm right, is that a lot of owners, it's always right. I miss a lot. But David James Dolan, and there's a lot of owners like this, they own the team, they can meddle. But when he was building the sphere in Vegas, he was distracted for about two years. I mean, and it's an unbelievable sphere, is one of the great global creations in music. It may be the greatest global creation since the Beatles. And for two years, James Dolan, who's a musician, really, he is a musician. He is. He. He was doing the sphere. And the Knicks let their guys run basketball, and you watch them build a hell of a team. It's like the owner's not there breathing down their.
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Colin Cowherd
Like to close that team.
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Covino
And so as I watch this Knicks team, I'm like, you know, we could tweak it, but they may end up in the finals. And part of why the Knicks are succeeding, they made a great deal on og, but you can argue they should just bring the band back because they, offensively, they're excellent. They're flawed. Their bench isn't. Isn't as good as you'd like. The Sixers have no bench. But my take is when the Knicks were in disarray for 20 years, it was because they never stopped meddling and trying to fix it and taking ridiculous, ridiculous swings. Could I argue, even if they don't win the finals, keep Mike Brown, keep the band back. It's too good to break up.
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Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I think that's a great argument. In a league that's hard to build champions anyway, and you're knocking on the door, like, again, if you do anything, it's tweaks, like, small tweaks, you know, I think, you know, if they could find a talented young guy to mix in with those guys, I think that would be great. You know, some more size at the wing, that would always be great. Or a big point guard that could play behind Jalen Brunson or play next to Jalen Brunson. You know, those are just tweaks. But what they've done, what Leon Rose has done, what World Wide west has done, it should be commended. They've continuously put this team in a position to be successful. I thought Tibbs did an amazing job, you know, that was. Just ran his course, I guess. But you can't say Tibbs did not put that team in a position to win. In fact, the criticism on Tibbs was that he played his best players too much. Yeah, that's. If that's what I'm going down for, you know, so be right, you know, and so that they have really done a great job of really establishing a winning culture there. Getting Jalen Brunson was the key to the whole deal. I mean, this guy, he is must see tv. His competitive spirit is unbelievable. He's unflappable. My big question about the Knicks was, can they protect him and Cat defensively, and he's participating in his own rescue. This guy's out there competing defensively. He's not waiting for people to help him. He's out there trying to make an impact himself. And it's really just a marvel to watch because he's not a big dude, he's not the fastest guy, but he gets it done. And I think Knicks fans can truly relate to a guy like that and connect to him. And he's going to take them as far. I mean, they're going to go as far as he can take them. Yeah.
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Covino
Okay, so let's talk about the flopping. So listen, my entire life, I've seen it in international soccer and I've seen it in the NBA. I'm okay with it. But when it becomes a central part of your game, that's when commissioners step in and make rule changes. It's like in baseball, it's like, guys, the game now is like three minutes and 10. You know, three hours and 10 minutes. We got to get it to 240. They do the pitch clock, and the audience, the consumers respond. It's a faster game. All sports are better when they're. When they're efficient. And I look at the flopping, and I'm like, I understand it. It's manipulation, smart, veteran players. It does feel like with sga, like with Harden, they literally. They said, we're not going to let you do that. It does feel like sga. It is now such a central part of his game. It's crossed some Rubicon. It's crossed some line where I could see Adam going, we got to tweak it. It's not good tv. Or are you still comfortable with it?
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Colin Cowherd
Look, at some point, the onus has got to be on the refs. Like, if you can't see acting from reality, that's on you. Like, we gotta get people that can spot it. Like, you know, this guy has a reputation for that. So why are you feeding it by calling these fouls? Right? It was the same thing I used to say to him. Well, James, I got a text in the garden by one of the lady officials. I remember because I said, at some point, you have to learn how to ref James Harden. And boom, she hit me.
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Mike Defebo
She stuck.
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Colin Cowherd
Oh, she stung me. And. But it's the truth. Like, at some point, the referees have that. These guys, it's like dealing with a guy that's a bully or a guy that, you know, that's always out there taking hard fouls or, you know, you have to. The refs at some point have to take onus on controlling that because they are the ones in the game that actually have the whistle. And so will the commissioner step in? I don't think his. What we call his flops, that's gonna be tough to police from a rule standpoint because he gets people into uncomfortable positions and disadvantaged positions. And so he then takes advantage of it by putting his body into him a certain way and then reacting a certain way. And so the way he's doing it, I don't know, because, man, he's so good at it. And, you know, other people in the league did what James did. James was the best at it.
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Covino
Right?
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Colin Cowherd
But you could see all of the people in the league bringing the ball up through the shooting hand, through the hand that's out, the dig hand, and drawing that foul and, you know, always popping the ball out when guys are in the Corner reaching all of those different things. More guys were doing that so it was easier to police for the league. But what SGA is doing is tough because, you know, it looks like he's getting contact on a lot of these guys. But the reality is the refs are the closest ones to it. They know he has a reputation for falling around. Don't call all that crap. Tell him to get up. And I tell you what, you tell a guy to get up a few times, he's gonna stop doing it. Because him being on the floor. Well, think about it. Him on the floor in a playoff game is a lost possession, right? I remember we played Boston in the playoffs. Ray Allen, every time D. Wade laid on the floor. Cause you know, D. Wade was a floor. He always the floor. He was famous for hitting the floor. Every single time he hit the floor, Ray Allen hit a 3 and D. Wade said, all right, I got to take that out of my game because I want to win. And so if the refs tell sga, no not calling at this time or no get up, he's a winner, he's going to adjust his game to that and start competing a different way.
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Covino
I don't think tanking is as big an issue. I think what happened is next year's draft is awful. This draft is amazing. And you have these back to back really stark differences. And so GMs are like, Guys, next year's draft is there's not a starter in the draft for us this year. We could find the bulls could get two starters. And so you got like eight or nine teams saying there's like 12 elite players we're going to take. I don't think it's a big issue. Brad Stevens said that yesterday. I don't think next year you're going to see nearly the tanking. The bigger issue though is injuries. And yeah, hockey has 82 games and they're like our stars play. But in hockey, your. Your line is, in a minute, you're on, you're off, you're on, you're off. These NBA guys are playing 42 minutes and the pace of play is insane. It is so fast.
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Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
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Covino
And so you go watch the night. I grew up with 70s and 80s basketball. The old Bill Walton Blazers, I grew up, they walked the ball up the floor, they walked it up.
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Colin Cowherd
Now it's Lakers Showtime. Showed up. Nobody was running like that.
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Covino
That's right. Now it's a track meet. So I do think there's an argument that if you cut to 68 games, we all watch the Playoffs anyway, that's what I want my stars available in the playoffs. Where are. Because we have an issue. We have an injury epidemic. I don't think players are faking. I think a lot of times guys are getting tweaked.
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Colin Cowherd
Soft tissue injuries are ramped everywhere. You know, so.
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Covino
So what do you do with that? So what do you do with that one?
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Colin Cowherd
You gotta look at what they're doing in the summer to prepare themselves first. But I think the way they're gonna have to deal with how that affects records and you know, guys that's gotten to play 82 games all of these years, their records are gonna look different than the guys playing, you know, 72 or 68 games. You know, hall of Fame numbers, number of all star appearances, you know, could end up being bigger because over the course of time enough that many games is being added to that guy's career from a season standpoint. Right. So that's where it'll be affected. And if the league can find their way around that, say, hey, asterisk, this is where we change. I'm all for it. Because as a coach, man, 82 is a beast. I feel for baseball and I don't want to even act like we got it the hardest, but 82 is a beast. I mean, to the point where you don't know where you are. Sometimes when you wake up, like you wake up in that hotel and you like, are we in Indiana or New Orleans? I go to the wrong room. You know how many times I went to the room that I was in the town before, you know, I was in 9:52 the town before. So I go to 9:50 and I'm knocking on some stranger's door. Cause I'm zumped out over all of these games. And so I would love it to see them drop the number of games. And I do think it will raise participation and urgency. Yes, the urgency to win and get your seating in the playoffs. You don't have that 10 game cushion now. You gotta get off to good starts. Like you can't have big lulls in the middle of your season. Like a lot of things it affects. And so I think Adam Silver is always looking at ways to make it more competitive. And you look at the end tournament, the tournament in season tournament, and you look at the play in. All of those things have made our league more competitive, more entertaining. So I think if he looks at this and find a way that that impacts competitiveness, he'll make the change.
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Covino
Yeah. There are 20 more possessions per game than 20 years ago. That, that is. That is a whole different. That's crazy. It's like. It's really remarkable. And then there is some load management for older players. And I want to end with this older player, LeBron. I mean, you coached against him. It's. It doesn't. It's like Tom Brady. It doesn't make any sense. He's going to retire not because he can't play. He's going to retire because he's tired of travel or something. When. When was the. I want to. Let's go back to the beginning. And you were in the league for 16, 17 years. When was the first time you got a look at LeBron and did you have a sense like, okay, he's built like a football player. He's a power forward body with guard handles. Did you know instantly when you saw him? Wow.
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Colin Cowherd
I saw him in the ninth grade playing for the Oakland Soldiers when I was a young assistant coach in college recruiting. When I saw him then, I knew he was going to be special. He already had. His handle was excellent. He was obviously a freak athlete, but his understanding of how to play, how to manipulate the game, you know, all of those things was already intact. So I was looking at him like an athletic Magic Johnson, right? And then once he hit the league, I was a young assistant. His rookie year, I was behind the bench with Eric Musselman in Golden State, and it was him, D. Wade, Bosh Melo, that class. And I got to see all of those guys up close. That was my first year coaching in the NBA.
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Covino
Wow.
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Colin Cowherd
And this guy came to Golden State and I was like, what in the world? I'm like, if this is the new NBA, this is crazy. You know, it's kind of like the Wemby. It was like how I reacted to Wemby, you know, when I first saw him, and I was like, oh, my God, like, look at this kid. He is 18 years old. Like, it didn't make sense. I couldn't register because Even Kobe looked 18, right? Kevin Garnett looked 18. LeBron's body looked 30. Like he was already a man. And so, you know, watching him go through that process and him growing and then actually getting to coach him for those four years in Miami, you know, and seeing his mental growth and his competitive growth in Miami, suffering, you know, the ultimate suffering when we lost to Dallas and that taking him to what we see now, which is the level of.
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Covino
You were in Miami, so you got him. You were around him for four years, weren't you? So you explained what it was like early. When you're around him every day at practice, what's it like?
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Colin Cowherd
His dedication to the craft is second to none. The time he puts into his craft, I have never seen. I mean, Kevin Durant is the most relentless worker I've seen on the court in a workout. LeBron James's body of work in a day unmatched. I watched this guy. I would get to the office at 6am I'll give you a perfect day. You're going to love this. I'll pull up into the parking lot. A guy rides in on a speed, 10 speed with the black tights and the helmet and glasses. I'm like, who is this guy in our garage? He takes off the helmet is Brian. He's rolled into work on a bike and got all his condition. He rode miles into work, full sweat at 6am so he walks into the building. He's already ready to go on the court. I meet him on the court, we put in a full another hour, then we practice. Then he lifts, then he does all of this stuff to repair his body. By the time he leaves, his kids are getting out of school. And I have never seen a player do that day after day after day. And so for him to be where he is now, it is no surprise to me. He took his gifts like a lot of guys get gifts. He took those gifts and maximized them and squeezed them out of his, like, every bit of it out of him. And, you know, for him to be doing this now, we should really be like, as fans, grateful. I know a lot of people always go back and forth because they're always putting them in the goat conversation. But as fans, just be grateful for, like, a guy that's that committed to bringing it every night, to having himself ready, and to pushing himself, you know, to a championship level. I think it's something to marvel at.
- [24:03]
Covino
Man, you tell great stories, David Fisdale. I remember the last time you were on, I was like, boy, that guy tells good stories and you look good. I say some stuff. Yeah, you have. I mean, when you see the first LeBron and then you see the ninth grade LeBron and then you coach with. And you coach them a couple years in the Lakers as well. So you've seen him everywhere?
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Colin Cowherd
Yep, everywhere.
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Covino
It's great. Great seeing you coach. I really is. I always love talking to you.
- [24:28]
Colin Cowherd
Same here. My man. You do an unbelievable job. I love watching your show.
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Covino
I appreciate David Fisdale, a thinking man's basketball coach. Isn't that great? He saw LeBron in ninth grade. And then he's his first year in the NBA. LeBron comes into town. Then he gets to coach LeBron multiple times. And I'm amazed that LeBron's on a bicycle in Miami. Traffic going at 6:00am in Miami. I've been in Miami traffic in the morning. I go there for super bowl week. I'm afraid for my safety in cars, not on a bike. That's great stories. That was unbelievable. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, it's Cabino and Rich from Fox Sports Radio. Now, in addition to hearing us live weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, we're excited to announce a brand new YouTube channel for the show. Yup, that's right. You can now watch Covino enrich live on YouTube every day. All you gotta do search Covino Enrich FSR on YouTube again. Go to YouTube. Search Covino Enrich FSR. Check us out on YouTube. Subscribe. Hit that thumbs up icon and comment away.
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Rich Eisen
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Covino
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Rich Eisen
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Covino
What is this, your first date? Oh, no.
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Mike Defebo
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Covino
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Rich Eisen
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Covino
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Rich Eisen
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- [27:14]
Colin Cowherd
What is this, your first date?
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Covino
Oh, no.
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Mike Defebo
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Rich Eisen
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Colin Cowherd
Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.
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Covino
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Rich Eisen
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- [28:14]
Colin Cowherd
No, no, no, Turn on the news.
- [28:16]
Rich Eisen
This is the Herd line news. We're going to start with a Twitch streamer named Jaylen Brown of the Boston Celtics who has responded to his buddy Tracy McGrady who said there's some frustrations with Jaylen Brown in Boston. But Jaylen Brown went on Twitch and streamed that, hey, no big deal.
- [28:35]
Colin Cowherd
A lot of stuff swirling around the
- [28:38]
Covino
Celtics and the organization.
- [28:40]
Colin Cowherd
Hate that our president of basketball operations
- [28:43]
Mike Defebo
even had to respond to this.
- [28:45]
Colin Cowherd
Me and Brad have a great relationship.
- [28:47]
Mike Defebo
I love Boston.
- [28:48]
Colin Cowherd
If it was up to me, I could play in Boston for the next 10 years. I'll say it again. I hate that our.
- [28:56]
Covino
You know, I hate that Brad even
- [28:57]
Colin Cowherd
had to respond to this.
- [28:58]
Covino
Like I said, me and Brad had
- [29:00]
Colin Cowherd
a great relationship and I can play in Boston for the next 10 years.
- [29:04]
Covino
I love Boston. Yeah, I'd be careful about trading a guy who was MVP conversation without Jayson Tatum. Like you're basically, if you think about in the NBA, what you're trying to draft is Jalen Brown. You're trying to find an athletic score who plays on both ends, who's durable, who's intellectually always looking to get better. Easy, you know, Is he easy to coach? Listen, Tatum's an interesting cohort because everybody thinks Tatum's much better and we've talked about this. The gap is much closer between. I think Tatum's a bit more fluid offensively, but I think Jaylen Brown's excellent. And the minute Tatum's gone, he was in the MVP conversation. Yeah. So the idea of you're basically in the draft hoping you can get Jaylen Brown, who's going to be a 16 year player who's going to make, you know, 10 all star teams.
- [29:56]
Rich Eisen
Now Brown, yes. He wants to stay in Boston. I get that. I don't know if you saw the clip swirling around the web during the Sixers series, but Jaylen Brown kept getting called for pushing off with his left arm six times in the series. And, and you know, the Sixers, maybe there was some flopping involved. So Jaylen Brown then said, hey man, I just hope the refs call that on SGA too because he's about to win a second MVP with doing my move. And it's like, Colin, Jaylen Brown's doing a lot of talking on. It's almost like he's like unloading some frustrations. I don't know how I feel about this. Athletes weren't doing this when Michael Jordan got eliminated by the Orlando Magic. When he came back from baseball and he got bounced, he wasn't going online and popping off and saying all this stuff. I don't know how I feel about athletes doing this. Where are you, where do you stand on that?
- [30:41]
Covino
Well, I mean, the public does it, politicians do it. I mean, everybody's doing media, maybe they
- [30:46]
Rich Eisen
shouldn't, I don't know.
- [30:47]
Covino
Well, your athletes are young men. I mean, I'd rather have them online than at a local bar or, you know, I mean, seriously, like the big knock is now they spend too much time on their twitch or their phone. That's, I can really put my arms around that. I have a much bigger problem. If you're late to practice, if you're hard to coach, if you're out, you know, late night, that, I mean, Jaylen Brown's impeccable shape, impact, impeccable work ethic. I don't care if they're online. I don't want him doing the reportedly alleged KD burner phone banging on teammates. But I, I, I just think you have to understand, if we would have had phones when I was 12, I'd have been on my phone all day.
- [31:30]
Rich Eisen
Yeah, well, of course, I mean, come on, the smartest people on the planet have you addicted to your phones. It's not a good thing. But anyways, let's move on to the NFL. Colin, let's talk about Drake May who had a pretty damn good second year in the league, nearly won the MVP award. He's recovering from that late season shoulder injury that he had saying he's got no problems at all. He's doing great. Expects to be 100% here very shortly if he's not there already. You and I have dug into the Patriots a little bit. Yes. May was incredible. Yes. The rest of the AFC had injuries almost everywhere and that schedule is the real decider. You know we like to go out on limbs here on the show. I think, I mean once the schedule comes out the order, I'm probably going to say no. No playoffs for the Patriots.
- [32:19]
Covino
Yeah, I think that, I think Vegas agrees with you. I do think we talked about it earlier. Circumst they were not the best team in their own division and they made the super bowl for a variety of reasons. Home field advantage, they got a blizzard advantage. Bo Nicks gets hurt. Like it's just one of those years where I sometimes you have a plan and you exceed the plan earlier than you think. And I mean they've had a very distracted variable off season. The schedule gets much harder. The part of their team that needs work is offensive line and that is a really difficult position to come into the NFL from college and be elite quickly. You can do it at receiver, corner back, quarterback and offensive line. It takes time. So I just, and I and I think the afc, they're just too, I mean now, now the Chargers are going to be healthy. Kansas City's going to be back. Burrow and Cincinnati have upgraded the defensive line last two years. I don't think it's going to look the same.
- [33:21]
Rich Eisen
Totally agree. Final story Colin. College football North Carolina and Bill Belichick. This time last year we could not stop talking about UNC. The hype, the excitement. Well, they ended up going 4, 8. Ended the season on a three game losing streak. I don't know if you remember their quarterback last year, Gio Lopez. He has since transferred to Wake Forest and he's popping off about his experience at North Carolina. Back at the other school sounds like you saying at the other place I worked it felt like there's no air here. It's fun again. It's like fresh air. Take it away, Mr. Cowherd.
- [33:57]
Covino
Well, I think that's what Brady said. It was just, you know, this kind of relentless. This is the way to do it the patriot way. I think it wore Tom Brady out. Who's the ultimate coachable star. And I mean, like, I never thought Belichick would work in college. I did think the NIL makes it more of an administrative recruiting role. That would help. But I've had questions about Belichick's personality in College for 20 years. I just don't, I think there are. I always told Rex Ryan, I went to dinner once with Rex and I said, rex, you would work in college. Rex is a good time. He's got a big personality. He's got a great sense of humor. Rex Ryan would have been a great college coach. Jon Gruden would have been a great college coach. Parcells, Belichick, I just don't see him. I don't see the personality. They're not built for. They're pro coaches. So I, I'm not shocked by that report.
- [34:49]
Rich Eisen
Yeah, I'll let you know if the air is, if there's no air here on the show, I'll, I'll give you a heads up. Unlike these guys who just take it and then leave and then unload on, on, on Belichick, one of the greatest coaches in the history of football.
- [35:03]
Covino
All right, J. Mac with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the Herd line news. I'm just trying to get a little oxygen next to J. Mac. Sometimes he goes in his rants. I'm just trying to steal a little bit of that oxygen back. Plenty of air. Sometimes he gobbles it all up. Okay, we're going to Pittsburgh with one of my favorite guys, Mike defebo. Aaron's coming back. It sounds like it could be next. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. If you get in the Aaron Rodgers business, it gets a little weird in the off season. So a couple of, you know, weeks ago they had this quirky tender they put out there and basically saying, aaron, we want to control this, set up some boundaries. We don't know where you are. And there's been the darkness retreat year and then he's going to host Jeopardy year and then he's, he's married and disappears year. So the Steelers trying to kind of protect themselves. And now there's a story he's going to be in Pittsburgh this weekend. And joining us, Mike defebo, Steelers beat writer for the Athletic. He is excellent at what he does, covering the NFL for several years. Okay, so let's, let's start with this. What are you hearing? I mean, again, there's a lot of stuff with Aaron. I hear what's official. What are you hearing?
- [36:23]
Mike Defebo
Yeah. So Aaron Rodgers will be in Pittsburgh this weekend meeting with the Steelers. And the hope obviously from the Steelers is to get this across the finish line. The problem is the Steelers multiple times in the past have believed that Aaron Rodgers was going to give them an answer and he was going to be a Pittsburgh spieler. First they thought the answer was coming around free agency. Then the goalpost moved a second time and they thought that they were going to get an answer before the draft. Now they've started to try to set up. There's never been a deadline, but now at least a target. And the target was OTAs, which begin on May 18. The hope is to get a deal done before then. Even better if they can get it done this weekend.
- [37:00]
Covino
Okay, so he was a discount quarterback last year. You know, he's not going to give him two freebies, so he's going to ask for more. Do you think that, I mean, what do they have available? It is a very expensive defense. Dk, Metcalf, Pittman aren't cheap. I. They don't have a ton of, they don't have a ton of money here. I mean, my take is he's probably not going to get what he wants. Do you think the number is going to be a problem?
- [37:27]
Mike Defebo
You know, from what I have been told through this process, they did not think that the contract itself was going to be a significant obstacle. And Rodgers last year, he really played on a tremendous discount, around $13 million. And so now he's set to make on this tender around 15 million. It should be more than that. And ultimately what we're talking about is a quarterback who will make more than $400 million in his career. He's coming back not for the money. He's coming back to give himself one last chance to make a run at it, to finish off his story in a great way with Mike McCarthy, his former head coach. You know, those would be the incentives more than the money for Aaron Rodgers. But a thing to remember in this is sometimes it's not about the dollars themselves. Often, you know, the amount that you get is commensurate with the amount of respect the team is giving you. And in that way, I think he at least would be like, like to get closer to market value.
- [38:21]
Covino
Okay, Big Ben was a legend. I can remember when he, you know, at the end of his career, when he's going around the stadium high fiving people, how is Aaron? And I mean, listen, you know you look at some of these quarterbacks who are so committed around the clock and then Aaron disappears. California cool. How is he seen by the average Steeler fan?
- [38:42]
Mike Defebo
To be honest, Aaron Rodgers won over a lot of Steelers fans last year with his performance, especially early on, and then he lost a lot of them. The way that this has dragged out, you know, this uncertain situation and this will he, won't he status that he's been in, that has been the Aaron Rodgers that the Steelers, the Steelers fans have known. That's what it's like to be a Pittsburgh Steelers fan during the Aaron Rodgers era. And I think that fans are much more willing to accept and tolerate it if it's a quarterback that's their own guy. You know, every quarterback. Brett Favre played this game at the end. You know, Ben Roethlisberger played this game at the end a little bit. What is he going to do next? The difference was Ben Roethlisberger was the Steelers guy. He was the one that had won them Super Bowls. He was the one that had gone to pro bowls wearing their jersey. Truth be told, Aaron Rodgers has done very little but lead on and leave this fan base in an uncertain situation. And for that reason, I think a lot of people who were on his side last year have turned on him. So he is going to have to win over Steelers fan base for a second time.
- [39:46]
Covino
Yeah. And you know, they don't have. I said sometimes the Steelers treat quarterback like a slot corner where they don't like it's not doesn't they don't have the urgency with it. You know, Ben got old very quickly and Mitch Trubisky was their answer and reaching on Kenny Pickett. So in this draft they get the offensive tackle, Max Ihonichore from Arizona State. But the bigger story was that the Eagles in state jumped them and got Makai Lemon. I've had two people in the league say they question the Steelers front office right now. It's not the same as it was 10 years ago. How did that play in Pittsburgh?
- [40:26]
Mike Defebo
Yeah, that was a really tough look for Omar Khan, the general manager. I mean, the draft was in Pittsburgh. The Steelers were in prime position to make a splash. And you have to realize that Omar Khan is not your typical kind of general manager. He did not earn his job because he's a boots on the ground scout who does these detailed player evaluations. No, he came up through the salary cap route and got his job because he was supposed to be Wheeler and dealer who was aware of league happenings. And so you take that type of a GM who's supposed to be good at knowing what's going on around him and good at making deals. You arm him with A League high 12 draft picks to make an aggressive splash and instead with the draft in Pittsburgh, he really gets caught embarrassed on the phone with Makai Lemon. It's an awful look from the Steelers in their front office and I think it's reasonable for people to look at that type of thing in question the direction of the Pittsburgh Steelers and who is heading their front office.
- [41:25]
Covino
It's very clear they don't want to bottom out. That's a Rooney thing. Right? Like, it's obvious next year is the quarterback class, although, you know, we thought this one was going to be better.
- [41:37]
Colin Cowherd
What is?
- [41:38]
Covino
You know, I mean, Green Bay is a small market team and they always seem to be very progressive when it comes to quarterbacks and understanding the kind of macro landscape they hire offensive coaches. I mean, Tomlin's gone, so obviously the Rooneys, I mean, I guess my question with them is this inability to go, we need a reboot. Let's just play Will Howard. Does that come from the very top?
- [42:05]
Mike Defebo
Yeah. You know, right after Mike Tomlin resigned, there were some questions about could this be an opportunity to hit the reset button to bring in, you know, young, fresh coach and to retool the roster. You could trade T.J. watt and try to get a haul from him. You could move on from some of these aging veterans. On defense, you could see what you had in Will Howard. But the Steelers really have taken the exact opposite approach here. They instead signed a number of aging veterans to supplement the group that they already had, Jamel Dean. They traded for Michael Pittman Jr. They extended Cameron Hayward. So they are very much committed. And more than anything else, they waited on a 42 year old quarterback well past when a lot of other teams would have grown impatient and move forward. And so absolutely they are trying to win in this window. And my bigger question or concern with this is not even trying to win in this window right here, right now. It's trying to straddle two windows. Because when Omar Khan talks about his vision, it's always, we want to win now and we want to do everything we can to win the Super Bowl. But also I need to keep an eye on the future. And that really reached a breaking point at the, at the trade deadline last year where you saw, you know, other teams give up a fourth and a six round pick to get Jacoby Myers and a fourth and a fifth round pick to get Rashid Shahid. Instead Omar Khan sat on his hands and you have a 42 year old quarterback and you didn't go for it with him. And now you spend a fourth round pick this year on Caden Region who's a fine player. And I'm not disrespecting the player one bit, but if you were going to spend a fourth round pick on a return specialist now this year, why did you not spend that last year to try to get the wide receiver for your quarterback?
- [43:44]
Covino
Yeah, I mean they really feel a minute left. I honestly feel like they're a kind of a ship lost at sea. I mean I really do. Is that too harsh?
- [43:55]
Mike Defebo
You know, right now they just need something to get them out of this current cycle that they're in. They're stuck in this purgatory where they're good enough to make the playoffs, but then when they do, they look like the team least qualified to be there. And that has been the story over the last several years for the Steelers. And truth be told, Mike McCarthy's inheriting expectations of winning a playoff game at the very minimum. And at this point, after seeing 10 and seven seasons that end first round of the playoffs, that is the expectation for this new head coach from the fan base, they want a playoff win. Anything less than that is not going to be a successful season.
- [44:29]
Covino
Mike Defable, the Athletic. Great seeing you, bud.
- [44:32]
Mike Defebo
Yeah, absolutely. Always good to talk to you.
- [44:34]
Covino
Yeah, always has good. Kind of contextualizes all these issues. They just, I mean they spend too much money on defense. They don't know how to do the draft at the highest levels. They kind of got worked by the in state Eagles. They don't have really a quarterback plan. It's like, it's a great brand. I mean I'm sure, you know, you'll see these great restaurant chains close. You know, they've been really good forever and you've gone there forever. And then they get bad management and all of a sudden it's chapter 11. I feel like it's this great law firm or this, you know, this great business and it's just, they've got, they just are lost. They're just not. They spend money in the wrong places. I mean Aaron Rodgers going to turn 43 in December. That's, I mean, take out Brady. You don't want 43 year old quarterbacks like Brady's the historic exception. Everybody else, it doesn't work.
- [45:26]
Rich Eisen
So. So Colin, yesterday we were talking about Luca getting to the finals with the Mavs and you were like, well, they didn't win so what's the point? So now we're talking about Pittsburgh being in this purgatory where they're good enough to get to the playoffs. Maybe. Can they win a game? I don't think so. And they have no future prospects, given Aaron Rodgers is old and they have no quarterback in the pipeline. How can you champion this move?
- [45:51]
Covino
Cause clearly the owners are not willing to bottom out. So my take is you'll make you competent. I mean, I wouldn't. I would go with Will Howard, but if you're gonna do it, he will make you better.
- [46:06]
Colin Cowherd
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