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THE HERD - Hour 2 - The new Herd Hierarchy, the Chiefs are on the brink, Nick Wright - The Herd with Colin Cowherd | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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THE HERD - Hour 2 - The new Herd Hierarchy, the Chiefs are on the brink, Nick Wright

The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Tue Dec 09 2025

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Hour 2: Herd Hierarchy, Chiefs Concerns, and the Lakers Controversy

Date: December 9, 2025
Host: Colin Cowherd
Guest: Nick Wright

Episode Overview

In this dynamic hour, Colin unveils his latest Herd Hierarchy NFL rankings, explores bubbling concerns with the Kansas City Chiefs' direction, and hosts Nick Wright for a spirited discussion on top NFL and NBA stories, including a brewing controversy with the Los Angeles Lakers. The hour is packed with sharp insights into playoff races, quarterback evaluations, and front-office intrigue in both football and basketball.

Key Segment Breakdown

1. Herd Hierarchy – Top 10 NFL Teams (03:52–11:35)

Colin runs through his current top 10 NFL teams, providing analysis, context, and his trademark “trust factor” commentary for each. Teams are evaluated on recent performance, roster health, and playoff potential.

#10: Buffalo Bills
- Strengths: Josh Allen’s top form, high offensive ceiling
- Weaknesses: Too dependent on Allen; turnover and run defense issues
- “I think right now the best quarterback in the world, not the most decorated, but the best is Josh Allen. But there’s too many questions for me.” (05:16)
#9: Los Angeles Chargers
- Noted for success in prime time and resilience despite injuries; praised for strong pass defense and coaching.
#8: San Francisco 49ers
- Confusing profile: Top scoring defense since Week 11, but skepticism remains about their personnel and reliance on key players.
#7: Houston Texans
- “Their offense can worry me. I do like C.J. Stroud. They have played the fourth hardest schedule in the league. So they are battle tested.” (07:00)
#6: Chicago Bears
- Higher turnover differential and dynamic play from Caleb Williams highlighted, but poor yards-per-play defense makes Colin wary.
#5: Seattle Seahawks / #4: Denver Broncos
- Both praised for offensive/defensive line play and coaching; Broncos slightly ahead due to experience.
#3: Green Bay Packers
- “Best third down offense tied for the fewest giveaways. They’re a very smart, clean young team.” (09:11)
#2: New England Patriots
- 10–0, but schedule softness noted.
#1: Los Angeles Rams
- “Devante Adams a steal… Puka Nakua averaging the most receiving yards per game in NFL history. This feels like the most complete team in the league.” (10:02)
- Notably, Philadelphia is left out due to coaching and “if” quarterback concerns.

2. Chiefs Are On The Brink: A Candid Conversation with Nick Wright (11:35–17:46)

Nick joins to dissect the Chiefs’ slump and draw parallels with other NFL dynasties.

Eagles & Jalen Hurts Comedown

Nick: “You can’t be the quarterback who might be limited but always wins and never turns the ball over and then have a three game losing streak because you keep turning the ball over. Like that doesn’t work.” (11:43)
Draws comparison between Jalen Hurts and Russell Wilson's tenure in Seattle, citing locker room disconnect and concerning trends.

Chiefs’ Problems, Not Just Bad Luck

Nick: “At the highest leverage moments of these games, they’ve been at their worst.” (15:17)
Goes through key moments; says the margin for error has evaporated.

Dynasty Cycle Comparison

Nick: “Brady, who Mahomes is always compared to… over the next three years, the Patriots won zero playoff games and got blown out in the playoffs... Mahomes,... right now they look like they’re going to miss the playoffs... The Chiefs right now for the first time in the Mahomes era are not a great team.” (17:02)

3. Justin Herbert & Quarterback Evaluation (18:00–20:41)

Colin and Nick debate the value of Justin Herbert’s resilience versus the “stat sheet” discourse.

Colin on Herbert: “Herbert has an atrocious O line...they’re in a division with the reigning super bowl dynasty and Sean Payton...Even you last night watching Herbert 9 and 4, weren’t you a little impressed with him?” (18:00)
Nick’s Frustration:
- Criticizes shifting standards around Herbert, arguing you have to “pick a lane” in quarterback evaluation.
- “I think despite a horrible stat line, he was really impressive yesterday...But the folks who for years have been the biggest Justin Herbert defenders...are gonna. Now with yesterday, they’ll be like, yeah, I understand he had a passer rating of 40 and threw a bunch of turnovers, but, man, the guy sure knows how to win, doesn’t he? Like, you gotta pick the lane here.” (19:34)

4. Shador Sanders, Browns Conspiracy, & Coaching Decisions (20:41–23:39)

A quick debate on narratives around Shador Sanders, Browns controversy, and Kevin Stefanski’s coaching:

Colin: “I understood the Tebow delusion. He was winning...With Shador, it’s almost like the trend 6 and 7...He’s not winning. He seems like a nice enough kid...I don’t get the animosity toward Stefanski. What am I missing?” (20:41)
Nick:
- Rebukes conspiracy theories; attributes Browns’ turmoil to classic organizational dysfunction.
- “Don’t assign to malice what can be explained to stupidity. I don’t think it takes a conspiracy to get to where we’ve gotten with the Browns handling of the quarterback position." (21:31)
- Dissects Stefanski’s controversial two-point conversion, calling it an “awful decision.”

5. College Football Playoff – Expansion & Selection Debates (23:39–28:19)

Colin: Argues Miami deserved playoff spot over Notre Dame due to on-field result.
Nick: Champions the 12-team expansion, citing this year’s parity as the ideal case for a broader field.
- “The entire purpose of the playoff is to make sure A&M on up…have a chance to compete for a national championship...The playoff was not created to make sure the 10th best team in the nation can have a chance to win the national championship.” (25:02, 25:55)
Country Club Theory (Colin): The more you expand, the more subjective the complaints (“I make more than him…”).

6. NFL News Updates: Rivers, Colts, and Rams Ascendant (35:32–39:44)

Philip Rivers’ Return: Noted for comic effect—a 44-year-old signed to the Colts’ practice squad due to injuries; skepticism over his potential impact.
Rams’ Domination: Praised for resiliency, depth, and health; coach Sean McVay’s quote:

“This is a player-led team...We got a lot of really great leaders in that locker room.” (39:44)

7. Lakers’ Controversy: Rich Paul's Comments & The Austin Reaves Debate (40:31–53:07)

Rich Paul’s Candid Assessment

Rich Paul (via podcast): “I personally don’t think the Lakers are good enough to be contenders right now. Not right now...I don’t think they have enough to get to the Western Conference Final.” (41:01)

In-Studio Reactions

JMac: Alarmed at the public airing of doubts, sees it as pressure for a roster shakeup:

“The Lakers love Austin Reaves. They love him. They don’t want to trade him...But the reality is, this is not what you need when you’re 17–6 and second in the west. This is now a diversion. This is all the Lakers are going to be asked about.” (42:23)
Colin: Rationalizes Paul’s critique; warns against being fooled by regular season success:

“Rich Paul is saying, don’t be fooled by records...The Lakers are built to come into town and beat you because they have three great play initiators, but they’ve got holes in the roster. And I appreciate anybody who isn’t a fanboy.” (43:12)

Austin Reaves’ Role & Future Questions

Clip Played: Suggests Reaves is a “sixth man” on a championship team, likely to be exposed deep in the postseason.
- “Playoffs in the NBA. They swallow the whistle. So you can bully Austin Reeves. He’s not a super long player...You can bully him. He’s not that strong...Austin was not a great playoff guy.” (51:53)
Debate on LeBron’s Future:
- JMac suggests Rich Paul’s comments as a LeBron strategy to engineer a bigger move/Giannis trade.
- JMac: “This is to me, them getting ahead of that and trying to prolong his career by bringing in Giannis and moving Austin. I don’t like that. That’s a dirty game.” (53:03)
- Colin: “It’s the game.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Josh Allen:
- “I think right now the best quarterback in the world, not the most decorated, but the best is Josh Allen.” (05:16)
On Chiefs’ struggles:
- “At the highest leverage moments of these games, they’ve been at their worst.” (15:17)
Rich Paul’s Lakers assessment:
- “I personally don’t think the Lakers are good enough to be contenders right now.” (41:01)
On the nature of sports evaluation:
- “Don’t assign to malice what can be explained to stupidity.” (21:31)

Key Timestamps

03:52 – Herd Hierarchy Top 10 countdown begins
11:35 – Nick Wright joins: Eagles, Buffalo, Chiefs analysis
18:00 – Herbert discussion and QB narratives
20:41 – Shador Sanders and Browns conspiracy
23:39 – College football playoff and playoff expansion debate
35:32 – NFL news: Rivers to Colts, Rams statement win
40:31 – Lakers controversy: Rich Paul’s comments dissected
49:51 – Austin Reaves’ role and Lakers’ playoff prospects discussed
53:07 – Segment wraps, looking ahead to hour three

Tone & Style

The hour is lively, analytical, and laden with both sharp critiques and playful jabs. Colin keeps a macro perspective, while Nick Wright dives deep into narratives and patterns, unafraid to challenge consensus views. The dialogue is rapid-fire, opinionated, and often tongue-in-cheek.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This hour covers the NFL’s playoff landscape, the Kansas City Chiefs on the ropes, quarterback myth-making, college football’s shifting playoff, and a new round of Laker drama – all with the typical wit, candor, and sarcasm you expect from Colin and Nick. The segment offers a mixture of insider analysis, macro-level sports commentary, and sharp behind-the-scenes speculation, especially regarding the Lakers. Notable for its directness and willingness to wade into controversy, this episode is a must-listen for fans eager to understand not just what’s happening, but why it matters.

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Transcript

Colin Cowherd (0:00)

This is an iHeart podcast.

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Colin Cowherd (1:14)

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Colin Cowherd (2:18)

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Colin Cowherd (4:55)

Herd hierarchy time is now. Let's go. The top 10 NFL teams according to college number 10. Well, listen, the Bills are flawed, but they have won 12 straight home games in December and January, and Josh Allen has a career high completion percentage and yards per attempt this season. I still think they're asking too much of them, which is why they've had 12 giveaways in five games. They're not a clean team. They can get sloppy. They're bad against the run, although they've been a little better in the last couple of weeks. I think the reality is they'll go as far as Josh Allen can take them. I don't Trust them situationally. They were fumbling near the goal line this week. I think right now the best quarterback in the world, not the most decorated, but the best is Josh Allen. But there's too many questions for me. They sneak in at number 10, number 9. The Chargers are now 5 and oh in prime time this season. They're a big stage team, at least in the regular season. 13 and 4 under Jim Harbaugh in the second half of seasons. That's best in the NFL. Remarkable with all their injuries. The offensive lines atrocious, all beat up. The running game depends on who's healthy. But they have a great pass defense. Best in the league since Week 8. Between the head coach and the star coordinator in Herbert, they're in every single game. I have the Chargers at nine, number eight. I can't even figure the Niners out. How in the world do they have the number one scoring defense since week 11? Robert Sala. I don't like their defensive personnel. I'm mid on Brock Purdy. But they've got five wins of 10 plus or more points since week seven. That's tied for the NFL lead. They don't get penalized. They've got two easy games coming up. Just had the buy. San Francisco. Yes, they're too Christian McCaffrey dependent. But Kittle and Jennings and Pearsall, they're getting healthier. I'll put them at eight, number seven. Texans have the best defense in the league. Five game winning streak, eight of ten. Their offense can worry me. I do like C.J. stroud. They have played the fourth hardest schedule in the league. So they are battle tested. Number one scoring defense. I'll tell you, there's a couple of young defensive coaches in this league that are really sharp. Demeco Ryan's and I told you I had somebody inside the Niners tell me years ago d' Ameco Ryan's was going to be a star as head coach. That Houston defense is no fun to play. I've got him at seven, number six. I'm going to give it to the Bears. They lead the NFL in turnover differential. They run the football, they can win time of possession, people bang on Caleb Williams completing 58% of his throws. But he is so electric and dynamic. I can live with that. I think their biggest issue, they give up 6.1 yards of play. That's near the bottom of the NFL. That's what worries me. It's not Caleb's lack of accuracy. I think you gotta live with that because he's so dynamic. They've gotta shore up their defense on the average play. Number five, Seattle. Maybe I have them low, but there's a. There's a slew of teams above them and there's reasons why they can be reckless. They're a run first team. They're aggressive sometimes a little, you know, penalties, youth. I don't think they're a Super bowl team yet. I think like the packers who are young, it. It'll take another year. I think Green Bay is ready this year. They weren't last year. They have, you know, tied for the fewest sacks allowed. Some of that's just Darnold's good on his feet, but I have Seattle at five. Number four, but I think the Broncos roster is a little more experienced. And I get offensive coach Sean Payton first game though this year they have not trailed. Listen, here's what's really impressive. Tied for the most sacks and then the fewest allowed. You can't get to their quarterback.

Colin Cowherd (9:03)

They always get to yours. That's going to serve them well in the playoffs. Offensive line, Sean Payton's got it number one after a couple years. I love their roster. I really like their roster. I wish their quarterback wasn't this uneven, but I have a nick ahead of Seattle. Number three, Green Bay. I may have them low. Best third down offense tied for the fewest giveaways. They're a very smart, clean young team. I thought last year they were a bit too young. I love that Christian Watson is healthy because Jordan love like a Sam Darnold loves to throw the deep ball and throws a brilliant deep ball. I also think the Micah trade was brilliant. Not, not always bad for Dallas, but it was brilliant because they're going to lead a lot of games late and he's the closer. I have green bay at three. Number two. Patriots were idle. I have them at 2:10 and oh, and Christian Gonzalez plays their elite corner ten game winning streak. Are they a bit young? Is Drake may ready? Listen, they have played the easiest schedule in the NFL. That needs to be noted. Houston could be better. Houston's played the fourth hardest schedule. So I think it they're a little harder to judge team. We know the coach is good and the quarterback is good, but I have him at two. Number one. The Rams boy was Devonte Adams. A steal leads the NFL with 14 touchdowns. Puka Nakua, by the way, averaging the most receiving yards per game in NFL history. 91 tight ends, quarterback, head coach, running back, o line. They have no weakness offensively other than Stafford's immobility. The defense is young and outstanding. This feels like the most complete team in the league. And you may have noticed I do not have Philadelphia in. I'm sorry. I think their coach is coordinator dependent and their quarterback in Philadelphia is an IF quarterback. He's circumstantial. If the O line is healthy, if the defense is great, if Saquon's having a great year, I have Philadelphia at 11. And with that Nick Wright joining us on a Tuesday. First things first. All right. Eagles not in. I'm not judging rosters, I'm judging. How are you today? I don't love Buffalo. They should have lost and I don't like what I see from Philadelphia. Any major complaints?