← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
THE HERD - Hour 2 - What Caleb Williams needs, Bo Nix is underrated, and hiring head coaches, Greg Cosell
00:41:52
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- [00:00]
Colin Cowherd
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:06]
Danielle Fishel
You can make a difference in someone's life, including your own with a job in home care. These jobs offer flexible schedules, health care, retirement options and free training. They also provide paid time off and opportunities for overtime. Visit oregonhomecarejobs.com to learn more and apply. That's oregonhomecarejobs.com.
- [00:35]
Greg Cosell
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- [01:45]
Danielle Fishel
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- [02:26]
Greg Cosell
Learn more@motts.com thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd@foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Now let's get this party started. You're listen to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. It's a Thursday. It is our number two. Appreciate you stopping by going to the live tour Saturday. I may be out there and grab my clubs, get some bombs out there. J. Man, I'm excited to watch.
- [03:12]
Jason McIntyre
Isn't it cool to do sports against like real professional athletes?
- [03:17]
Greg Cosell
It's exciting. Bryson Dechambeau will be out there. I'm, I'm fired up for it. So it's, this is a fun time of the year. Tomorrow night Shador Sanders is going to play the two 90 mile an hour speeding tickets and the pre draft interviews and the legendary, you know, draft room. I don't love that stuff. I don't, I don't think he's a terrible, terribly serious young man and I think the position demands that. We'll find out tomorrow though is, could he be a great backup or is he good enough for Cleveland at the end of the year or the trade deadline to move him for a draft pick? I think, I think Cleveland, who has two first round picks, wants to this year get as many picks as they can. If they can move Kenny Pickett here in the preseason, if they can move Shador Sanders into the season. If you get six round picks, you're just looking for nine, 10, 11, 12 picks. So if you give up six to move up a couple slots, that's what, that's, that's the game. It's an inexact science. And speaking of inexact, the Chicago Bears new coach, Caleb Williams. Let's bring in Greg Cosell for the first time in our football season. 46 years NFL film. So you spend your off season watching like you know, every snap of these quarterbacks, the red zone snap, that's what you do. So yeah, one of the things that always worries me about a quarterback is if they have a college problem, footwork, hero ball.
- [04:49]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [04:49]
Greg Cosell
And it becomes a problem very early in the NFL. So they're either uncoachable or they don't have a coach that knows what, how to fix it. So my concern on Caleb is little hero ball holds it too long. Those were knocks at usc. So when you looked at all in hindsight, the snaps, what do you see that absolutely has to be worked on going into year two?
- [05:16]
Colin Cowherd
Well, there's a lot to unpack with Caleb Williams. I think that if you just watch his tape from a year ago, some concerns are just his ability to sort of have a feel in the pocket. He had a tendency to step up when there was no need to step up. So what that would do is it would bring him closer to the offensive line and the pass rushers and so he created his own pressure at times. And obviously he's just not a guy that saw it as cleanly as you'd like. So he held the ball too long. But think about this, Colin. You watch a ton of college football as well, and this is not a test question, but let's throw this out. What do quarterbacks in college never do? Most of them, they do not huddle. So now you're with Ben Johnson, okay? He's essentially a rookie. Now, Caleb Williams, you almost have to forget about what happened last year, because now what he's learning is, is he's learning very wordy play calls that have a lot of alerts. Sometimes there's two play calls that are built into a particular verbiage, and then there's shifts, there's motions. There's all kinds of things that he has to learn just to get from the huddle to the line of scrimmage with a reasonable amount of time on the play clock, so that when the shifts and the motions happen, he has time to see how the defense responds. This is the operational part of playing quarterback that he's never done before, not to the level that Ben Johnson demands. So we have to start from there before we even put him on the field playing in a real game. So there's an awful lot to learn for Caleb Williams. So this is almost a rookie season all over again. As a pure talent throwing the football, he's phenomenal. But before you get to that, there's so much more that he has to learn, and I hope people understand that that's going to take time.
- [07:10]
Greg Cosell
So Kevin O'. Connell, J.J. mcCarthy. Kevin runs advanced schemes. This is like McVeigh, you, Stafford. Matt Stafford is a sharp guy, and that's one of the reasons that McVeigh was so attracted to him in Detroit. He, you, you. I mean, I've seen the study habits of Stafford. They're kind of legendary. So do you think the advanced schemes, because I like Minnesota's offensive personnel, do you think the advanced schemes help or hurt JJ McCarthy help or hurt him?
- [07:38]
Colin Cowherd
Well, I think they're advanced, but in other ways. They're theoretically simpler in the sense that what Kevin o' Connell is really good at, just like Kyle Shanahan is really good at, is they're really good at getting the primary read open and available for the quarterback, because they're really good at understanding defenses, which is critical as a play caller. You're not calling plays in a vacuum. You're calling plays based on your sense of defensive tendency and probability. And one thing Kevin o' Connell is really good at. We saw that with Sam Darnold last year, which is why Sam had such a good season. One of the reasons anyway is he's so good at getting that primary read open. And that will be critical for JJ McCarthy this year because my guess is JJ McCarthy in these early stages of his development is not going to be great yet at working through progressions, certainly not full field progressions. So I think that's a critical piece of how J.J. mcCarthy can do this year. And all that gets touched with your footwork and the timing of routes. There's so much that goes into that that will be a work in progress as well.
- [08:48]
Greg Cosell
So I watched Bo Nix twice live in college. He's cut, he's fat, he's fast. Yeah, when you watched all his tape, my take is we don't watch Denver as much as we watch those NFC east teams and people just don't realize how good of an athlete he is. When you look at Bo Nick's rookie tape, what are people missing about him because his numbers were better than Jaden in many instances?
- [09:15]
Colin Cowherd
I think what people miss, and I would say I probably missed it to some degree as well when I did his college tape, even though I liked him, is I think his arm is better than people gave it credit for. And when I say arm strength, I'm not talking about the ability to throw the ball 60 or 70 yards. I'm talking about the ability to stick throws in the middle of the field, dig balls, you know, 18 to 20, 22 yards in breaking routes between and over defenders. He threw the ball really, really well. Those are really arm strength throws, those kinds of throws. And I think that he throws the ball a lot better than people give him credit for. Now. I think there's clearly some things that he has to work on. I'm sure Sean Payton would tell you that he's only going into his second year, but I think just in terms of sheer physical traits as a passer, he's a lot better than he's been given credit for. And you've probably been around him. He's a pretty big kid. Colin. He's not a small guy and he's a very good athlete.
- [10:14]
Greg Cosell
Yeah, very, very good athlete. I noticed when I went to the Utah, Oregon game and I sat behind the bench and he is ripped. I mean, he is. He's not trying to show off. He is just cut, very little body fat. So Drake May came in. I think we both like Drake May. We said the comp was Justin Herbert and there's times I've watched him and he does look a little like Herbert. I mean, the size, the number, the way he moves. Is there anything you saw? Now he's got a better coach. They spent 300 million bucks around him online play. What was your overall appraisal of him in the rearview mirror? Now watching year one and his growth, very impressed.
- [10:52]
Colin Cowherd
Given, as you know, Colin, a bad situation, maybe one of the worst 5, 0 lines in the NFL. A receiving core that, I mean, I would bet a lot of people couldn't even name their receivers. So given the situation he was in, I thought he handled himself really well. You'd expect him to be up and down in that situation, and he was. But I think overall you're dealing with a kid that's big, he's physical, he throws the ball really well, he can move. I mean, I don't think there's anything. And again, we're not there, so we don't know the mental capacity of how he assimilates all the information that he needs to assimilate. Obviously it's Josh McDaniels now as the OC, we'll see how that goes. But you're dealing with a guy that has pretty higher level traits and it might take some time and he's learning a brand new offense. I'm not sure people realize how difficult that is. You've been around, you've seen play calls, you've seen how all that works. That's hard. It's hard to assimilate a brand new offense. He just went through a rookie year where he had to work his tail off mentally. And now all of a sudden he's starting from scratch with a whole new offense, probably brand new terminology. So that takes time. But when you talk about the physical and athletic traits, he's got them.
- [12:07]
Greg Cosell
You know, this off season, it, you know, I know it's a slow off season for all of us in the talk show business, but there was a little bit of a week long theory. Jalen Hurts. When GMs and coaches pulled privately their thoughts on the top 10 quarterbacks, Jalen Hurts was like nine. And I and my take has always been I trust Greg Cosell. And I, and I've said this, he reminds me of a more talented Dak Prescott. I like his eq, I like his iq, I like his toughness, I like his leadership. I don't love him from the pocket. I never loved Dak from the pocket. I just thought he was a smart, tough, gritty leader. When you hear that Jalen hurts the GMs the scouts, the coaches are like, yeah, he's ninth best. What is your takeaway on Hurts the quarterback?
- [12:54]
Colin Cowherd
Well, I think every quarterback for the most part and becomes a function in many ways of their team and Hertz is very much that kind of player. When you think about the Eagles and how they won a year ago, the super bowl, my guess is most people, the first thing they say is not, boy, that's Jalen Hurts team. I mean, this was a team with a running back that had historical season. They've got the best O line in football, they had the best defense in football. Jalen Hurts is a piece of a really good team and they do a lot of things that are difficult to defend. And let me give you a few examples and I've spoken to coaches this offseason about it. They are a four down offense literally once they get to, let's say the minus 45 yard line or the 50 yard line. Now what happens is defenses when it's third and eight have to play them totally differently because you know what, they're going to run the ball on third and eight. Most teams will never consider running the ball in third and eight. So now you have to think, how do I play defensively? Because they're going to run the ball because if they get to fourth and two, they are going to go for it. And Jalen Hurts is a critical, critical piece of their third down and fourth down offense. And one of the things he does exceptionally well, and I heard this a lot this offseason, Everybody talked about A.J. brown and how critical it is that he can win one on one on the outside because Jalen Hurts. The best thing about his throwing Colin is he works outside the numbers. He can throw the fade ball, he can throw the goalball. And A.J. brown gets a ton of one on one because of the nature of their run game, which of course Jalen Hurts is a significant part of. So he's a critical piece in what he brings. But if you're comparing him to, let's say, the quarterbacks that we think of as being the elite guys that can in a sense be the guys that win games by themselves, he probably does not fall into that category.
- [14:48]
Greg Cosell
So I said my prediction is when quarterbacks get old and rich, they do not want to get hit. And Aaron Rodgers last year, Eli, at the end of his career, he didn't want to get hit. Brady was practicing how to get sacked. When I watched Aaron at the end of last year, it was a lot of underneath stuff. He didn't want to take Hits and I blame him. The Jets. Oh, well, Pittsburgh can't solve their offensive line. We're on six years in a row now, Greg, and the early reports from camp are he's not throwing the ball down the field. And my take is outside of Matt Stafford, very few old, wealthy quarterbacks are willing to take a helmet to the chinstrap. He's one of one. I think the problem with Aaron and Pittsburgh is he, like the jets, he will not trust that O line. What do you think of that?
- [15:42]
Colin Cowherd
I wish I had time to tell you a great Jim Kelly story, but that will be for another time. But anyway, you know, I think the key thing here is the tackle position for the Steelers because Broderick Jones going into his third season has not really shown that he's a quality NFL offensive tackle. And that's a concern. Look, the litmus test for offensive tackles in the NFL is can they pass protect 101 on third down. And right now the Steelers have a question about that. And if that remains a question in the regular season, your point about Rodgers is 100% right. He's not going to want to get hit. He's going to want to get rid of the football. He won't be immobile, but he certainly doesn't have the mobility that he had four, five, six, seven years ago. So it'll be very interesting. And then Arthur Smith, obviously they'd like to run the ball as the foundation of their offense. That's going to be the absolute critical piece. You know, Rodgers still throws the ball as well as anybody, but I'm not sure at this point in his career behind that old line. You want to ask him to drop back 40 times a game?
- [16:40]
Greg Cosell
No, you do not. So the Lions lose Ben, they lose two great coordinators. And I said, I've said multiple times, the Eagles go to a Super bowl, lose their coordinators, hire the wrong guys, and then at one point lost six to seven games. We pay attention to quarterbacks and head coaches, but a lot of coaches that are not great scheme coaches need. They're very reliant on a scheme. Like for instance, Dan Campbell's not known. Dan Campbell, Nick Ceriani are not great scheme guys. They're culture guys. And so losing Ben Johnson to me is a big deal. It wouldn't be a big deal for Shanahan or Andy Reid, but I think Dan Campbell is more of a culture guy that is reliant on a great oc. When you looked at Ben Johnson last year, did we even undervalue him? How important he was. I mean, I always felt like everybody was backpedaling against them because they had so much effectiveness with trick plays, a dominant O line. I don't think Detroit's going to be as good this year. I don't think they're going to be as clever and creative.
- [17:47]
Colin Cowherd
It'll be interesting because here's the question that we don't know the answer to, because now Jared Goff was in that system with Ben Johnson for what, three, four years? I'm not sure we give Jared Goff enough credit. We just spoke about how Caleb Williams has so much to learn. Goff really mastered that offense. So the question is, how much input will he have? Johnny Morton, I believe, is the new oc, and he was there. So obviously they can keep a lot of the same principles and concepts. But now you get into game play calling, which we won't know the answer to that at all. But schematically, what Ben Johnson does to me is so good. The spacing he has versus zone coverage, it's beautiful. Really defines it exceedingly well. But, you know, you're dealing with a quarterback in Goff, and as I said, I'm not sure we give him enough credit because he doesn't, in many ways fit the mold of how we see quarterbacks now in the NFL, because he's not a runaround guy. But, you know, Goff really handled everything in that offense. There are so many elements to that, as we discussed with Caleb Williams. So we'll see how Detroit is. But I think Goff plays a big role in this.
- [18:53]
Greg Cosell
You know, it's funny you mentioned that, because I read it this week and I forget where I read it, but somebody said on the online, I thought it was smart. They said Ben Johnson may be great and Caleb's greatly talented. What if they're stylistically a bad match? Like Kyle Shanahan does not want quarterbacks running out of his place. He does not.
- [19:13]
Colin Cowherd
No.
- [19:14]
Greg Cosell
I do wonder if Ben and Caleb, it's not his guy. He didn't draft him. If stylistically, it may not be a perfect fit. Greg.
- [19:25]
Colin Cowherd
No, but no coach wants the quarterback to run out of their place. I'm telling you that. It's a fact.
- [19:29]
Greg Cosell
Colin.
- [19:30]
Colin Cowherd
You know, obviously, there's. Obviously, there's certain guys that can do that really well. And then the coaching staff goes, hey, great play because they make great plays. But no, no coach. You know, look, I've been at training camps. I'm sure you have These coaches work 15 hours a day. No offensive coordinator is calling a game or any Play to have the quarterback not execute it the way supposed to be executed. Obviously they understand there are times that can't happen but they don't want it not to happen because the quarterback screws it up. They want it not to happen because the defense happens to win the down. So there's no coach that wants the quarterback to just randomly break down and disrupt the play. So it's not that Caleb Johnson's a bad fit. Caleb Johnson needs to, excuse me, Caleb Williams, Caleb Williams needs to learn all this and then as a parachute, as the last thing, then the ability to make those special plays comes into play. But that can't be the first thing.
- [20:27]
Greg Cosell
And finally I tried to be very positive with Schnewer Sanders. I did not like what I heard about his interviews pre draft. I did not like the kind of lack of self awareness legendary in his draft room. But I was like listen, he's accurate, he moves pretty well, good pedigree and then he got two speed speeding tickets. And I'm like okay, you're not serious. You're not a serious. I need a grown up for this position. And so I, I don't have high hopes. I and said this for years. I think quarterback it's almost unfair but we need you to be have the maturity of your dad at 23. That's why the Mannings all work. They're all like, you know, they're very mature people. So I don't have particularly high hopes because I've seen a lack of self awareness and judgment for Shedeur. Is there anything on tape you love or don't love as we as he plays tomorrow in the exhibition game?
- [21:19]
Colin Cowherd
Well I think what his tape showed and look he was a fifth round pick and he's a fifth round pick for a reason now can fifth round quarterbacks make. Of course they can. So I'm not going to sit here and say whether he will or won't but I think what you saw on tape was a quarterback that's a little smaller than you'd ideally like that throws the ball well but not incredibly well. I think he's accurate but not quite as super accurate as a lot of people make out. And that's based on film study. That's not an opinion and I've had that conversation by the way with coaches and he's essentially a pocket quarterback. He's not a statue. But if he were to be a really good NFL quarterback Colin, it would have to be because he's a pocket quarterback. He's not a playmaker, he doesn't give you a playmaking dimension. He's not Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen. He's not going to be that guy. So that's what he is. Those kinds of quarterbacks in the NFL tend to be complementary pieces. They can be really, really good. I mean, you could argue Jared Goff is that kind of quarterback. He's far more talented than Chadur Sanders, but I mean, essentially he's a pocket quarterback. So he needs a really good coaching staff. He needs team, he needs a lot of things around him to be successful. Maybe he will be.
- [22:29]
Greg Cosell
Yeah. The two best pocket guys are Stafford and Goff, and they are great throwers of the football. They are elite. Yeah. I mean, I think Goff has probably the most underrated arm in the league. Not the best, but the most underrated arm in the league, Jared Goff.
- [22:44]
Colin Cowherd
And you know that Stafford. Let me tell you something. Stafford is so highly respected in the league. Everywhere I go, all people want to talk to me about is Matthew Stafford and how great he is. And I'm not sure fans in general think about him that way, but he's so highly respected.
- [23:00]
Greg Cosell
Greg Cosell, great seeing you. His first appearance of many and have. Have yourself a great Friday and a great weekend.
- [23:08]
Colin Cowherd
All right. Thanks, Colin. Really appreciate it.
- [23:10]
Greg Cosell
Yeah, no, it's so. Yeah. And again, I just, it's amazing to me that people would downplay two speeding tickets for a fifth round quarterback in a week. Just, it's. I, I had a situation. All these coaches and GMs, they, they watch all these shows and they list. They're just, they're information junkies. I can remember just a small thing. I remember as an aside, during the combine when Will Levis showed up in the sleeveless shirt with a gun show, and I was like, oh, so bad. He's trying. He want, he want. You know, he's tr. I had an NF NFC coach call me after the show, leave a message. I called him back and put me on speakerphone with somebody and they were laughing, they were like, oh, God. We just, we just thought it was the most ridiculous thing. And then I had an AFC executive, I had a text with him two or three times and he's like, what you, what matters to you? You're sending signals at the Senior bowl, you're sending signals at the combine. Sometimes in games you're emotional, you do things that you know, you know it's in the heat of the battle, but when you're in a combine or a Senior bowl or a practice, you're sending signals and these GMs, they're watching all of it. You get two speeding tickets as a fifth round quarterback. Every team that passed on him laughed at him. The New York Giants, everybody. Oh Jackson dart Giants were laughing at that. Remember how bad Shador interview reportedly was with the Giants and they were like we got, we got questions on self awareness. They were laughing at that. So don't let your critics laugh. Make them, make them wish. Hope they sitting there going remember when Letterman left NBC and went to CBS and Letterman had this hysterical opening press conference. It was genuinely laugh out loud off the script funny. You knew the NBC executives were watching that CBS press conference go. We probably just should have paid him. He's the funniest guy on the planet at the time. One more herd the herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.
- [25:25]
Jason McIntyre
Hey, this is Jason McIntyre. Join me every weekday morning on my podcast, Straight fire with Jason McIntyre. This isn't your typical sports pod, pushing the same tired narratives down your throat every day. Straight Fire gives you honest opinions on all the biggest sports headlines, accurate stats to help you win big at the Sportsbook and all the best guests. Do yourself a favor and listen to Straight fire with Jason McIntyre on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [25:57]
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- [26:58]
Colin Cowherd
You can make a difference in someone's life, including your own with a job in home care. These jobs offer flexible schedules, health care, retirement options and free training. They also provide paid time off and opportunities for overtime. Visit oregonhomecarejobs.com to learn more and apply that's oregonhomecarejobs.com.
- [27:27]
Greg Cosell
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- [28:16]
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- [29:11]
Greg Cosell
Just and Real it is early August. Mid August is a lot of baseball teams getting ready for the postseason. Texas, Ohio State, Labor Day weekend. Can't wait for that. J. Mack with the news.
- [29:36]
Colin Cowherd
No, no, no, Turn on the news.
- [29:40]
Greg Cosell
The Herdline news.
- [29:42]
Jason McIntyre
Colin we're starting with a team we rarely talk about around here, and that's the Chicago Bears and Ben Johnson. Ben Ben's instilling a new culture in Chicago, and it starts with accountability. Bears GM Ryan Poll said Johnson has been holding players to a standard and it starts with the qb.
- [30:01]
Greg Cosell
I see a ton of growth. Ben has been hard on the quarterback position because of everything you just said. There's a lot that rides on the quarterback's shoulders. So what he's doing is he's making making it hard now so that when we get to games, things slow down for us. He understands the growth and development process of the quarterback position. There's going to be days that are really good, and there's going to be days where maybe you take a step back. Interesting man.
- [30:32]
Jason McIntyre
So, Colin, you know you and I do some Interviews. I go on radio shows often. I will say this. It's got to be real tough as a football player, basketball player, coach, gm, to have to face the media every day and not step in it and say something that you're going to regret or want to walk back instantly. Because with Caleb, there's been some issues with Ben Johnson, clearly.
- [30:52]
Greg Cosell
Right.
- [30:52]
Jason McIntyre
I mean, you've been banging on them almost three, four days a week.
- [30:55]
Greg Cosell
Yeah.
- [30:56]
Jason McIntyre
And all it takes is one kernel from this guy because I'm parsing the every word. You know, Bears, bloggers, social media, they're going through every word. And there's days where you might take a step back. Wait a minute.
- [31:08]
Colin Cowherd
What?
- [31:09]
Jason McIntyre
Year two. It's got to be step forward. It's got to be linear. What's going on here. And I just, I. I don't envy polls, having to go do all these interviews. It just. Especially with a new coach, new culture, quarterback off the struggle bus.
- [31:22]
Greg Cosell
It just feels very tough. And it does matter that Chicago is a big, loud, aggressive media market. I listen to Chicago radio. It's Cubs because the Cubs are good this year. It's Cubs, Cubs and Bears, and that's what they talk about. And so there's a lot of eyes on it. And it's. It's not a very good ownership group. There's questions about upstairs. I don't know if Poles is good or not. I don't know. He's done some things I like. He's done some things I don't like. I like Ben Johnson a lot. And I think Caleb is really gifted. I mean, even Greg Cosell said, despite his problems, he said, when he throws the football, it is beautiful. It is. He has got a power. He's like Mahomes. Mahomes is like 6:2. He's not that big of a guy. The dad bod. Mahomes has a cannon. Caleb Williams is six feet tall, but he. His arm is like. It's a top five or six arm in the league. He has a huge power arm.
- [32:17]
Jason McIntyre
I mean, listen, this ain't Jacksonville, you know, Ryan, Jacksonville GM goes on radio, like 17 people hear it. You go on Chicago, it's a brush fire every day. Let's move on to Pittsburgh. Colin, I don't like this story one bit. So Aaron Rodgers, obviously new to Pittsburgh, just got there. Offense is kind of struggling, so Rogers is struggling to develop chemistry with his receivers who are not DK Metcalfe. Listen closely to what Roger said here.
- [32:46]
Greg Cosell
I just gotta get Roe out of.
- [32:48]
Colin Cowherd
His head a little bit, you know? Because I think he's, he's, he's such a good kid. He cares so much about up, whether.
- [32:53]
Greg Cosell
It'S my approval or he's doing it right. And he just got to trust himself.
- [32:57]
Colin Cowherd
Because he's so damn talented. You know, the more he could play.
- [33:01]
Greg Cosell
Free and not, not think out there, the better he's going to play.
- [33:04]
Colin Cowherd
So the more he can just trust.
- [33:06]
Greg Cosell
What he's got and then just go out and react, the better he's going to play.
- [33:10]
Jason McIntyre
Okay, so to the backstory. Roman Wilson, kid out of Michigan, is a young receiver, he was a rookie last year, third round pick. And Aaron Rodgers, meeting the media, felt compelled to tell them, oh, this young guy, he's got to get out of.
- [33:25]
Colin Cowherd
His head a little bit.
- [33:26]
Jason McIntyre
I mean, I know it's August, Colin, and I know Rogers just got there, but that's like the antithesis of leadership, is it not?
- [33:34]
Greg Cosell
Well, that, I don't know. I, I, I don't know if that bothers me.
- [33:39]
Jason McIntyre
Why would you go to the media, tell Roman, bro, get out of your head. Go to the media and hype this guy up. Can you imagine, Imagine if you were doing interviews when I started on the show and you're like, yeah, J. Mac's got to get out of his head a little bit.
- [33:51]
Greg Cosell
That's what I told management.
- [33:52]
Jason McIntyre
I didn't have to tell management, don't tell the media. So I got to read about it.
- [33:56]
Greg Cosell
Yeah, I, I, I, you know, I mean, I think I have a hard time criticizing Aaron Rodgers or Kevin Durant when they give me content. And so I do think, I do think there are certain people, certain athletes who just tell you how they feel. My only issue with Aaron is, and it's not really an issue, Aaron does not want to get hit. He's 41. In rich and Pittsburgh, you got to sit in there. This is not a great, oh, they lost their left tackle, Najee Harris. This is not a good O line. And so I think their bigger issue, I don't think Roman Wilson, he's more of a, I was never a huge of all the great Michigan players, I thought he was kind of a 2 or a 3 in the NFL. I don't even know if he's a 2. Maybe he is, but it doesn't bother me that much.
- [34:41]
Jason McIntyre
I mean, it doesn't bother you. So Aaron Rodgers says that it's all over Pittsburgh radio, tv, blog, social media. And I'm sure Roman Wilson sees it. And now you're in the locker room and everybody's looking at you. Knowing you're in your head, that's just unnecessary crap. Colin, this is what Rogers does, man. He's divisive. He's not unifying.
- [35:02]
Greg Cosell
Well, I mean, Roman Wilson, if he's going to make it in the pros, that comment cannot be an obstacle. You don't get rainbows and pom poms every day. If you can't handle some criticism by Aaron Rodgers, you're not. You're not built for it. I mean, seriously, you got it. Really. Roman Wilson's gonna go home at sleepless night tonight. He'll be fine.
- [35:23]
Jason McIntyre
Praise publicly, criticize privately.
- [35:26]
Greg Cosell
A smart man.
- [35:26]
Jason McIntyre
Once I think that was Plato, Aristotle, somebody. Really smart. Anyways, final story. Colin. Let's go to the Raiders. Geno Smith and Pete Carroll reuniting in Vegas. Vegas. In their first game as Raiders, the duo will go to a very familiar place to play. Seattle. Gino talked about returning to his old home with his old coach.
- [35:47]
Colin Cowherd
Man, looking forward to it.
- [35:48]
Greg Cosell
Really looking forward to it.
- [35:49]
Colin Cowherd
Looking forward to seeing my old teammates.
- [35:50]
Greg Cosell
Old coaches, people in the building. It'll be fun.
- [35:54]
Colin Cowherd
Also going back with Pete, that's pretty cool.
- [35:58]
Greg Cosell
Yeah, I think Dino Gino's a little Sam Darnold. If you give him that extra second to stand in there and throw it, he's good. He's very good. If you rush him with Darnold and Gino, you're going to get mistakes. I think the O line for the Raiders is fine in their division. It's not as good as Denver's and I don't think it'll be as good as the Chargers. It may be on par with Kansas City's where you're kind of hoping. Josh Simmons works at left tackle. But I think the Raiders are actually going to be good. I just don't know. I think in a lot of divisions I'd pick them as a dark horse wild card team and a lot of division. If you put them in the AFC South, I think they could win the division. If you put them in the NFC South, I think they could battle. I don't think they're as good as Tampa because of Baker, but they can battle to win the division. I think in this place they're battling for third because they don't have Denver's roster, they don't have the Charger, they don't have Mahomes, you know, and so it's a. I mean, Pete didn't get an easy draw here. They've got three or four great players. Brock Bowers and Max Crosby are first. Balance it all pro guy. Those guys are great players. Secondary is a little underrated, but if they can protect Gino, I think here's what I would say. The Raiders have a chance to split every series in this division and you can't say that about the Giants in the NFC East. You can't. Most fourth place teams do not have a chance to split, but there's some fourth place teams. Indianapolis, you know, if their quarterback plays as bad as it could be, they're going to get swept by somebody in division. I think, I think the Raiders could split with the Chiefs, the Broncos and Kansas City. I think they'll be that improved.
- [37:45]
Jason McIntyre
I got a couple moles in Vegas and Colin, the hype train for Ashton Genti right now. I mean they're saying like this guy's going to right out of the gate 8 be an unbelievable player for the Raiders now.
- [37:57]
Greg Cosell
We'll see.
- [37:57]
Jason McIntyre
I know it's a big leap from Boise to the NFL.
- [38:00]
Greg Cosell
I can't wait to, I cannot wait to watch.
- [38:02]
Jason McIntyre
You know, I, I think, you know, I would not be surprised if it was a 13, 1400 yard season from Ashton. Jenny. I'll just put that, put that out there.
- [38:10]
Greg Cosell
Well, fantasy football out there. Okay.
- [38:12]
Colin Cowherd
All right.
- [38:13]
Greg Cosell
JMAC with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the Herd lie news. I like my coaches to get in the middle of scrums. We'll talk about that next. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.
- [38:39]
Danielle Fishel
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Greg Cosell
Balancing work, family and education isn't easy, but American Public University makes it possible with online courses, monthly start dates and flexible schedules. APU is designed for busy professionals who need education that fits their lives. And Affordability matters, too. APU offers the opportunity grant, giving students 10% off undergraduate and master's level tuition, helping you reach your goals without breaking the bank. Plus, they provide career services and 24. 7 mental health support at no extra cost. Visit Apu Apus Edu to learn more. That's Apu Apus Edu Life moves fast.
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Unknown
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- [41:54]
Jason McIntyre
Saturday it's baseball night in America as a rising star, Pete Crow Armstrong leads the Cubs against the Cardinals or Bryce Harper and the Phillies battle the Rangers. Check local listings for the game in your area. Saturday, 7 Eastern on Fox.
- [42:10]
Greg Cosell
So it was about probably about four months ago, four or five months ago it was what are we in August? July? June, June it was teams were hiring, had just finished up hiring their coaches in the NFL. So maybe that's probably about March. And I was talking, I was driving on the 405, headed home and I was I called a friend of mine who's an executive in the NFL who has done who has hired multiple coaches in his career, his long career. And he said, you know what you're really doing when you hire a coach is in the NFL, you're hiring a CEO. If they're good with schemes, that's a bonus. And he mentioned, like Shanahan and Andy Reid, he Said, yeah, that's a bonus, but they don't have to be. He said, you know, Mike Tomlins hoisted a trophy. Pete Carroll has been to a couple Super Bowls. They're walkaround guys. They're CEOs, they're. And he goes, you're, you're, you're what? You. If you have a guy that's great with schemes, but he's terrible in building a culture, that won't work. If you have a guy who's not necessarily great with schemes, but he can hire a great staff, he's great with culture that can get you to Super Bowls and win Super Bowls. And so when the Patriots hired Mike Vrabel. Vrabel's really smart, but he's known as a culture guy. He builds toughness. And so they got into a scuffle at New England practice, and Vrabel. And this is very much Mike Vrabel. This is Dan Campbell talking about biting kneecaps. Dan Campbell is a smart guy, but he's a culture guy. And he walked into Detroit and he was yelling. He had a dip in. And he was tough. He was creating a culture of toughness. Take his shirt off and bang into Harbaugh. Does this. He'll take his shirt off, he'll go up against the sled. Harbaugh, no schemes. But Harbaugh's a culture builder. So Vrabel gets into a scuffle. They have some scuffle, he jumps into it and his head gets all bloody. And Drake May was talking about him breaking up the camp scuffle. And it starts with the coach, starts with the head coach. The intensity, bringing it every day, you know, taking no crap. You know, we're out there on the field. But also it comes at a time where with our guys offensively and getting over there and getting some tussles and.
- [44:32]
Colin Cowherd
Kind of having some penalties and extra.
- [44:34]
Greg Cosell
After the whistle can get us in trouble. But for mentality, I like it. So, again, it helps. It helps that Vrabel is a large man, but Nick Saban's a culture builder. And he's five, six. You didn't know that. He's five, six. So that's not everything. Urban Meyer's more of a bigger, athletic man. Mike Tomlin's a culture guy. Vrabel is. Dan Campbell is. And then that's one of the things I have said. I mean, I always thought, remember when the Bulls and the Knicks would get into these series of the Miami Heat and Alonzo Mourning and Patrick Ewing. I love that. JEFF Van those were physical series and the Knicks were trying to establish physicality in that series, and Jeff Van Gundy knew it. And Van Gundy's nuts. Anyway, I love him, but he knew how important physicality was in this series, and the NBA was going to let him fight. And Van Gundy wanted to send the message. I'm. I might be five, five and a half, but I. I'll fight with you. Look at Van Guy. This video is so good. Van Gundy knew it was intentional. He didn't want to get hit, but he knew he was sending a message. You're not pushing my team around. This is a dog fight. And I'll take my tie off. I'll fight you. That is so incredibly powerful. That is so powerful. And so when Vrabel does it. And that's what I've said about Mike McDaniel. I don't question that. Mike McDaniel's smart, but he's a little guy, and he's kind of snarky, and the media likes him, and the analytic guys love him. You know, Brandon Staley was smart, but I didn't know if he could build a culture, he'd get defensive at the microphone. Some guys. Smart doesn't equal alpha, and there is that. You got 55 men in the locker room, and Nick Wright came on this week, and we both think McDaniel is super bright. But what are the Dolphins four years in? What are. Brian Flores, it took him eight games. Remember, they were like one and seven. It took him eight games to build the culture. But by like the ninth, tenth game of his Miami reign, and you didn't have to like Brian Flores. That team was good defensively and physical. And Brian Flores is an alpha. And he's loud and he's tough, maybe too much so. But I think there is value in certain sports when you get to the NBA playoffs. And it is physical. I mean, Steve Kerr is legendarily feisty. He got punched by Michael Jordan. Part of what makes the warriors work in their prime was Draymond Green, Steve Kerr, Andre Iguodala. It was a tough team. They weren't big. They were feisty. There was a lot of confrontation. Pat Riley's teams were the Lakers. Pat's all slick in Armani suits. Pat was a fighter. Pat, when he went to the Knicks, Pat loved physicality. And Pat would let guys know. Pat would bark at refs, bark at everybody. It mattered. And this was Nick Wright. And this has always been a thing with Mike McDaniel. I don't doubt he's smart. Can he build Lincoln Riley, same criticism. We know he's smart. Can he build a culture? Why aren't his teams tougher? Here's Nick Wright this week on Mike McDaniel. Some of the reason that the media loves him might also be related to why his team pretty clearly does not fear him the way they seem to some of the more effective coaches. But I think that there is an arrogance to the idea that in some ways that football is talked about when it comes to the actual physicality and toughness of the game that gets lost in some of the math. It's interesting. And it's not just size. Again, Saban's 5, 6. I think Sean McVay is about 5, 9, 5, 10. I've talked to Rams players about McVeigh. He is, he is probably right now as good as any culture builder in the league. He probably the best culture builder. McVeigh's unbelievable in the locker room. He is unbelievable in the film room. Like, and I'm talking as good as anybody that's ever been. Sean McVay may be as good as any culture builder in league history. He's 5, 9, 5, 10. Saban's 5, 6. But there is something. It's volume, its presence. McVeigh's good looking and, you know, he was a. He was a good athlete. And I just think this stuff matters and the media thinks it's a bunch of bull. But that's, that's my thing. When Mike Vrabel is getting involved in the scuffle or Jeff Van Gundy is, it's intentional. It's like, guys, I'm in the fight with you. Yeah. And Vrabel's got blood coming out of his forehead. It's like, that's Mike Vrabel. You go back to Dan Campbell early. I thought it was a little meatheady. I was wrong. I was like, well, this fighting kneecap stuff, this is embarrassing. I missed players. I remember it was either the first or second year of Detroit and they weren't good yet. I don't. They played Baltimore and I think they played them at home and Baltimore beat them. And I went on the. And I remember saying this. I said, I don't know how good Detroit is. That team plays so hard. Every stinking. The kneel down play, it was physical and I think. I don't know. I don't remember what year it was. They weren't great. They were getting close, but they played the Ravens. I think it was. I think it was. You know, you've heard of the word sweat equity. This is kind of part of it. It was like early in the process against the Ravens, and Ravens had far more talent and I was so blown away by how physical they were. You don't get that unless the coach is building a unique culture. You just don't get it. Do you guys find what game that was? I don't know. I. I just remember I was. I swear it was the Ravens. I swear it was. But, you know, maybe it wasn't. I don't know. It's summer. I'll have to go back. I have to chat GPT. I'll find out here in the break. Albert Brer is joining us in the last hour. If you miss Greg Cosell, we'll put him on the podcast as well. Archie Manning saying Arch Manning's not going pro. Gonna be staying just five, six year red shirt again. May stay at Texas forever. We'll talk about that. 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- [51:51]
Colin Cowherd
Espresso martini. It's 10am why not?
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Greg Cosell
It's the quiet before your next flight.
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Colin Cowherd
The shower that resets your day.
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Greg Cosell
The menu that lets you know where you are.
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Colin Cowherd
This is access to over 1300 airport.
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Greg Cosell
Lounges and every Sapphire lounge by the club.
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Colin Cowherd
And one card that gets you in.
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Greg Cosell
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- [53:24]
Colin Cowherd
This is an I Heart podcast.