THE HERD - Hour 2 - Where Colin was right and wrong, NBA playoffs, Kevin O'Connor

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Hour 2

Episode Summary – May 18, 2026

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Overview

In this episode of The Herd, Colin Cowherd dives into his signature "Where Colin Was Right, Where Colin Was Wrong" segment, tackling the NFL offseason, NBA MVP discussions, playoff matchups, and shifting team narratives. With guest NBA writer Kevin O’Connor, the conversation zeroes in on the Western Conference's extended dominance, the historic rise of the Spurs’ young core, and a detailed look at the ongoing NBA playoffs. The episode is rich in debate over the merits of star players like SGA and Wemby, the evolution of the Knicks, and speculation on the Lakers’ and LeBron’s futures.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. The Enduring Supremacy of the NBA Western Conference (02:43–05:32)

• Colin reflects on why the Western Conference has been superior to the East for nearly 25 years, exploring theories about weather, leadership, and player preference.
• Quote: “Why does the West ... always seem to be better? I’ve never really figured it out ... Even Mark Cuban said, ‘More good owners, more good general managers out West,’ but you wouldn’t think that would last for 25 years.” (03:41)

2. Where Colin Was Right / Where Colin Was Wrong (05:34–12:09)

NFL & NBA Rapid-fire Insights

• Aaron Rodgers to Steelers: Colin doubles down on his contention that Pittsburgh has no real quarterback plan, highlighting their stopgap approach.
  “They have no future plan at quarterback. That is the Steelers.” (05:34)
• NBA MVP Race: Colin admits being wrong about Wembanyama winning MVP as SGA claims the award, but he questions SGA’s lack of dominance in any major statistical category.
  “SGA doesn’t lead the NBA in any major category...I thought Wemby as the best defensive player of our lives…Jokic the best player…SGA proved me wrong.” (06:10)
• NFL Schedule Dominance: With a star-packed holiday slate, Colin asserts the NFL keeps outpacing NBA in relevance and ratings.
• Detroit Pistons Playoff Failure: Colin overestimated Detroit against Cleveland, noting their offensive limitations despite defensive prowess.
• International Players & NBA Culture: Highlights how international MVP streaks expose American AAU and G-League’s developmental shortcomings.
• Minnesota T-Wolves Disappointment: After early playoff success, the Wolves fell “lopsided” to the Spurs, raising questions about their roster’s future.
• Cowboys’ Flexibility Post-Parsons: Colin praises Dallas for prioritizing a deeper roster over a single superstar after trading Micah Parsons.
• Lakers Ownership Shift: Predicts the Dodgers ownership will beef up the Lakers’ front office, emphasizing modern organizational structure over star-chasing.

3. Deep NBA Playoff Analysis with JMac (12:09–16:23)

• Thunder vs. Spurs Matchups: Discussion on the return of Jalen Williams for OKC and the implications for lineup rotations.
  “The Thunder have a lot of guys, a lot of mouths to feed…you’ve got to push the right buttons.” (12:39)
• San Antonio’s Rapid Rise: Debates the rarity of such a young team (Spurs) reaching this level, invoking parallels to the Shaq-Penny Magic, LeBron’s early Cavs, and dynasty-building in the NBA. “Are they going to get to their first finals this fast?” (16:15)
• OKC on the Brink: Raises stakes for the Thunder if they fail as a No. 1 seed yet again.

4. NBA Playoff Breakdowns with Kevin O’Connor (22:17–36:00)

Spurs-OKC X’s & O’s

• Kevin O’Connor identifies Wembanyama as the principal mismatch against OKC, detailing how his presence transforms the floor, especially defensively.
  • Quote: “When Victor Wembanyama was on the floor... the Spurs held the Thunder to only a 99.6 offensive rating. The Thunder have been one of the best offenses in basketball the last two years.” (23:46)
• Both teams now have “no holes,” making the matchup determined by minor edges and adjustments—like daring certain players to shoot or exploiting rookie nerves.
• On MVP Voting:
  • O’Connor voted for Wemby, citing his game-changing impacts on both ends.
  • Quote: “He just turns you into something you don’t want to be…SGA took nearly half of his shots from three-point range when Wemby was simply on the floor.” (27:08)

Knicks Evolution & Matchups

• Knicks get credit for evolving offensively, integrating Cat as a point-center, allowing Jalen Brunson to excel off-ball.
  • Quote: “This evolution with the Knicks...they’ve evolved, they found themselves. It’s going to be a real challenge for Cleveland.” (29:51)

Lakers & LeBron’s Future

• Colin and Kevin debate whether LeBron would take a pay cut and how the Lakers’ new ownership might pivot to a more businesslike, flexible approach—potentially moving off LeBron or reinvesting in other assets.
  • Quote: “If he is willing to take a pay cut, what are the Lakers going to do with that extra financing?” (32:54)
• Potential targets for Lakers reinforcement: Robert Williams, Mark Williams, or moving up in the draft for a young big man.

5. SGA vs. Wemby MVP Debate and NBA "Face of the League" (40:44–45:18)

• SGA’s MVP Validity: Segment unpacks the widespread hype for SGA, with Colin and JMac both asserting Wemby as the better all-around player already.
  • Quote: “SGA is a jack of all trades, but master of none…What does SGA do that’s so great?” – JMac (41:26)
  • Colin points out SGA’s subtle manipulations and maturity but flags lack of a “flashy” signature.
• Wemby’s Hype: Discussion on an anonymous exec calling Wemby “the best player I’ve ever seen,” but skepticism remains about crowning him at age 22.
  • Quote: “Defensively, I’d give him all those, but you can’t be the best player…offensively, he’s not there yet.” (41:26)

6. Steelers’ QB Situation & Aaron Rodgers (45:18–47:50)

• JMac and Colin dissect Pittsburgh’s QB carousel, noting McCarthy’s likely preference for developing young quarterbacks but organizational unwillingness to bottom out.
  • Quote: “If you gave a true serum to Mike McCarthy, he would have rather gone into the season, played Drew Aller and Will Howard, taken his lumps.” (46:11)
• Colin frames McCarthy as “taking a bullet for the franchise” by reluctantly leading a win-now, old-vet approach with Rodgers.

7. LeBron’s Next Chapter Speculation (47:50–48:46)

• Discusses rumors connecting LeBron back to Cleveland or possibly to the Warriors, but both hosts find a return to the Cavs unlikely; Golden State would be fun but not a title favorite.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Spurs’ Young Core:
  “Their best players are 20, 21, 22. Never been to the playoffs with this group. And now they may win the whole thing.” – Colin (22:17)

• On Wemby’s Impact:
  “He just turns you into something you don’t want to be.” – Kevin O’Connor (27:08)

• On SGA’s MVP:
  “He doesn’t lead the NBA in any major category…generally, you gotta put a stamp on something.” – Colin (06:10)

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Essential Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic/Conversation | |-----------|-------------------| | 02:43 | Why is the NBA Western Conference so dominant? | | 05:34 | Colin’s “Right/Wrong” NFL & NBA blitz | | 12:09 | OKC vs Spurs, young teams, and playoff matchups with JMac | | 22:17 | Deep Spurs vs Thunder breakdown with Kevin O’Connor | | 27:08 | Wemby’s transformative defense and MVP case | | 29:51 | Knicks’ evolution and playoff adjustments | | 32:54 | Lakers’ future, LeBron’s contract dynamics | | 41:26 | SGA vs Wemby MVP debate, player development talk | | 45:18 | Steelers, Aaron Rodgers’ contract, and QB succession | | 47:50 | LeBron’s free agency rumors and legacy speculation |

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Episode Tone

Conversational, insightful, candid, and rich with vivid analogies and playful banter—typical of Colin Cowherd’s style. The dialogue balances data-driven argument, pop culture reference, and big-picture storytelling, making it accessible for sports diehards and casual listeners alike.

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TL;DR

This hour of The Herd delivers sharp sports analysis on the state of the NBA playoffs, MVP controversies, and NFL offseason chess moves. Through lively exchanges with JMac and guest Kevin O’Connor, Colin unpacks what makes the West superior, the unreal ascent of the Spurs, and the endless “next move” speculation across key franchises. The conversation is punctuated by memorable insights, anecdotes, and classic Colin quips, making it a must-catch for sports fans seeking both depth and entertainment.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.

[Colin Cowherd]

Here we go. It's hour two on a Monday. Grateful you joined us. We're on FS2 next couple of hours, IndyCar racing practice. Wherever you may be, however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. Your choices. Kevin o', Connor, who covers the NBA Yahoo Sports, formerly at the Ringer, Oklahoma City dominated or San Antonio dominated? Oklahoma City. So I think this is, and I don't even, you know, there's, I always have theories on stuff. One of the things I've never been able to figure out and I love trying to decode analytics and why stuff happens, not just, hey, what's happening? We can all see that. Why is stuff happening? Where are we going? That stuff fascinates me. The NBA Western Conference has been superior to the NBA Eastern Conference. Are we going on 25 years? I mean, seriously, why? I've never been for a long time. I argued well, the Western weather. Phoenix, Louisiana, the Bay Area is more mild than the east coast winner. East coast winners, except for Miami, which by the way, has always done well with stars wanting to play in Miami because the NBA is in October, November, December, January, February. A majority of the league is in bad weather months. And players don't want to get off the plane at 2 in the morning. They want to get off in Miami and not Milwaukee. I don't know if that holds any water whatsoever. But I once again, the Western Conference finals is going to be, in my opinion and the ratings will prove it probably very, very interesting to a large number of people. So why does the West, I mean, I always understood the SEC had better college football, where there were more great high school football players in the geographic footprint of the sec. And now nil. The Big Ten has more money. The cities in the Big Ten have more money than SEC cities on average. And it's a money sport. Now, like I can usually explain a dynasty or why something is happening, I've never figured out. And somebody, I think it was Mark Cuban or somebody said at one time, more good owners, more good general managers out West. But you wouldn't think that would last for like 25 years, right? There's so much turnover. The highest rated regular season game this year was the Thunder and the spurs on Christmas. So I mean, I think this once again, I just feel like I, I, I've covered, I've watched so many gigantic Western Conference finals over the last 30 years and they almost always, I mean, there were the LeBron conference finals that felt big for a couple years, but the minute he comes over to the west, it's just harder. Better teams, better coaches, better rosters. All right, Colin right. Colin wrong. On a Monday. Here we go.

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

Where Colin was right.

[Colin Cowherd]

Aaron Rodgers, one year deal with the Steelers. We have said, listen, they don't have a plan. So here they are with a guy that's going to turn 43 years old at some point next year in the season and it's a one year plan. And the Steelers, you know, they don't want to bottom out. And I've been on this for five years. Like would you guys treat quarterback like it matters? Not an interior O lineman or a slot receiver. So the Steelers, it's just perfect. They'll lead the NFL in defensive spending for a fifth straight years and they have no future plan at quarterback. That is the Steelers.

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

Where Colin was wrong.

[Colin Cowherd]

SGA beat Wemby for the most valuable player. I'm happy for him, but I pick Wemby about a month ago. And it's interesting because SGA doesn't lead the NBA in any major category. None. Now, he's a great player, but generally you got to put like a stamp on something. And I thought Wimby as the best defensive player of our lives and Jokic just the best player, probably had an edge. But SGA proved me wrong.

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

Where Collin was right.

[Colin Cowherd]

I can remember when the media predicted during cte. Football is beginning to end. The regression is starting. And then the schedule came out. Thanksgiving Eve, Thanksgiving Day, Black Friday. That is easily the best schedule of my adult life. And then the Christmas schedule is going to clobber the NBA. I mean, it's unbelievable. The star coaches, the star quarterbacks, the star rosters, the star, everybody. I know, Kaepernick, the league is in trouble. The holiday games in the international games are so much better than at any time in my life. It's not close.

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

Where Collin was wrong.

[Colin Cowherd]

I thought the Pistons defensive effort, intensity and consistency would beat the up and down Cavs. And it went seven. And they went on the road in game six and looked impressive, but what a bagel. And the problem is when Detroit gets down 12, it feels like 24. When they're down 15, it feels like 30. Because after Cade Cunningham, there's not a lot of offensive greatness. I really like watching them play. I'm not against great defensive basketball, but I don't like ugly offensive basketball. And they just didn't have enough bucket

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

getters where Colin was right.

[Colin Cowherd]

Been on this for years. International players have won eight straight MVPs. Why? Because the American basketball culture is stuck in a rut. Too much aau, too much about everybody getting paid in the G league. Not enough about player development, too much about me, not enough about we. The football, hockey, baseball cultures to me collectively are about the team and growth and development. And the basketball culture is too often about the player in the moment being taken care of.

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

Often pandered to where Colin was wrong.

[Colin Cowherd]

After winning game one, I thought Minnesota would still probably lose the series, but I thought we were going to have a tug of war for the next 10 days. The spurs average winning margin in the games they won was 25. And it's scary because if you look at that t Wolves roster, I doubt Julius Randle's there next year. That that Minnesota roster is long, smart, deep, physical, experienced and wemby. After the ejection, they just, I mean, he had Aunt Edwards in the huddle congratulating them with eight minutes to go.

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

It was lopsided where Colin was right?

[Colin Cowherd]

I said when the Cowboys traded Micah Parsons, they would be more flexible, have more good players, not one superstar and would be better. Well, what do you know? They're over under this year was higher to start the season than last year and now it has moved up a game because of scheduling benefits that Dallas has. Like they will not endure a single short week road game and have at least 11 days off before their two toughest road opponents. So again, there was this sense that the roof was caving in when Micah Parsons was traded. And I kept saying, guys, Jerry Jones is an oil maverick. He is a deal maker. If you sign Micah, Jerry's going to have very little opportunity to make deals. But when they let him go, Quinn and Williams, Kenny Clark, Rashawn Gary, Caleb Downs. Dallas's defense with downs and added depth and resources up front is a different defense than the last year they had

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

Micah where Colin was right.

[Colin Cowherd]

I predicted the number one change you would see when the bus family sold to the Dodgers owners would not be on the court. It would be in the front office. I said, that's going to be the first move. They're going to expand the front office. The the bus family are good people and they worked hard, but it was a mom and pop operation. What did the Dodgers and now the new Laker owners do? Hired two new assistant vice presidents to work alongside for the time being, Rob Pelinka. So there's that. That's always been my complaint with the Lakers is, guys, Rob Palenka was an agent and now you're asking him to be Sam Presti. He doesn't have a scouting background. That's not who he is. And, and that's why I've said. I mean, Rob Palenque is not. I mean, he made some good moves. The scouting department found, like Alex Caruso or Austin Reeves undrafted. They made moves, but they let Caruso walk. And, you know, they missed another draft pick. So the, the key to the new owners is not LeBron. The key is they're going to have a big boy front office. And in the NFL, you see this all the time. Go look at the Rams and the Eagles front office money they spent and look how well they draft. There's. It's not a coincidence the Bengals don't crush the draft. They have a tiny scouting department and don't spend money on the right R and D. Where Colin was right. Where Colin was wrong. Oh, J, man, I'm excited for tonight. You don't get. You don't get many of these legendary series. Are you taking. I'm going to take the spurs because I made that prediction a month ago in the cs.

[JMac]

I'm with you for the series. I don't know who's going to win tonight. I'm really curious about the matchup. So by all accounts, J Dub is going to be back. Okay. He was our second best player. Colin.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[JMac]

So, like he's going to be playing 30 minutes. Where are those minutes coming from? Who. Who's not going to be on the court? Well, Jared McCain killed the Lakers like 60 on threes.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay.

[JMac]

But I don't know if he's gonna play.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay. But this is not the Lakers.

[JMac]

Fair.

[Colin Cowherd]

There's a much better team. So, yes, some of the bench players that got extended minutes.

[JMac]

Wallace, I mean, these are guys who are horses. Some people are toggling with the five man lineups. And AJ Mitchell, J Dub, sga, they've played like zero minutes together all season. Like they haven't been on the court. It's weird. The Thunder have a lot of guys, they have a lot of mouths to feed, and you got to push the right buttons. Remember last year they blew game one against the Pacers. Remember that?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yep. Yeah.

[JMac]

Would not be shocked if the spurs come out with a dub tonight. And then it's like, oh, little panic about the old MVP.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, wouldn't it be. Would it be the 8th? I mean, listen, if OKC is out, if you're the New York Knicks, you're rooting for the, for the spurs, are you? Oh, the best players are 20, 21 and 22.

[JMac]

They're all kids.

[Kevin O'Connor]

Fair, Fair.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay. Yeah. Oklahoma City's got kids and a championship pedigree and more depth and a better bench And a better dominant number one score. Oklahoma City's better than the Knicks. They would beat the Knicks and they beat him pretty soundly. San Antonio matches up very well against Oklahoma City. But if you take the age and what the Knicks do with Cat, I think the Knicks match up with the Spurs. They beat him in that. Remember they. They played him in the cup. The NBA cup.

[JMac]

Yeah. Good call.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I think Oklahoma City, this happens a lot in sports where you have matchups matter. Same with fights. I remember when Tyson fought Holyfield. Of all the people who fought Tyson, he always had trouble with people with size and reach because Tyson was smaller. And then you get a guy that's about his size in Holyfield, and Holyfield gave Tyson major problems and he wasn't a huge guy with massive reach advantages. This happens in sports. Last year is a prime example. Remember who gave the Rams so much trouble? The Carolina Panthers.

[JMac]

That's right.

[Colin Cowherd]

Twice. You know, the second time they played, you're like, okay, they'll take them serious. You're like, no. Carolina matched up against the Rams very well. Rams offense matched up against the Seahawks defense very well. Rams could not move the football against the Texans defense. So there are matchups. San Antonio is built to beat okc, but the Knicks are built to give San Antonio major problems.

[JMac]

It's similar to Alex Caruso, right?

[Colin Cowherd]

He.

[JMac]

What is he, a six, five, you know, white guy, not jacked. He may be their best matchup for Wembanyama. It's not Chet Holmgren. Remember, Gobert was. He was played off the floor when he had to guard Wemby. So it could be, hey, let's try this guard. Get under his skin, get low, fight him, battle him. I don't know. I'm super fascinated by the matchups. I did tell the wife, hey, listen, we need dinner early. I gotta really lock in for these games. Just like how you have like a one drink maximum during some of these big NFL games. I'm not going to be boozy tonight. I really got to focus. These are. These are. I mean, this feels like one of the best series the NBA has had in a deck maybe since the prime warriors with KD and Curry.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, it feels. It's got a. You know when you watched Kobe and Shaq in Los Angeles were very good with Del Harris, but they were kids. And then Phil got him. And then you were. Then you were like, oh, wow, they're all grown up and they got this legendary coach. Like, oh, wow. Yeah, it feels like San Antonio. Are they there yet? Or they year Away. I know by next year, San Antonio is the favorite to win. I know that this year I'm not sure I'll take San Antonio, but there. I don't. Generally, there is a road to your first championship. I mean, you can go to Jordan, you can go to, you know, you can go to all these guys. You get beat up in this league for a lot of years, San Antonio's kids are like, yeah, we're the new guys in the block. Are they going to get to their first finals this fast?

[JMac]

So do you remember the Shaq, Penny Hardaway, Orlando Magic?

[Colin Cowherd]

That was in Florida at the time in Tampa. That was my team to cover. I watched all their games. So they.

[JMac]

They hadn't won any playoff games. They get together and then, boom, they're in the finals against Elijah. One, they took down Jordan. People seem to forget that loss. He came back from baseball and they smoked him. And then they got. I think they got swept by Elijah, Juan and the Rockets. It was like a shocking.

[Colin Cowherd]

LeBron's first final against the Spurs. They got swept.

[JMac]

They got destroyed.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, this team's obviously more talented than that Cleveland team, and. And I. I would argue as talented as that Orlando team, but it. There's usually baby steps in the NFL. You don't necessarily get it. It's like Sam Darnold to the Seahawks. They've drafted well, Super Bowl. Yeah. You know, it's like Patrick Mahomes. Yeah. I mean, it's Patrick Mahomes. There you are. Yeah. But in the NBA, because it's always been an. You know, because the NBA play, the NFL isn't officiated differently. Regular season to postseason. Same with hockey, basketball. The officiating changes in the playoffs, and it benefits older, stronger players. So usually young teams have to get wrestled to the floor two or three times, and then they graduate to okay, then the Finals, maybe they lose, maybe they win, and then the dynasty starts. Is San Antonio and Wemby so good the dynasty starts now when they're all 20, 21 and 22?

[JMac]

I hope so. I have some hot takes. If OKC loses this, just think about that. They'll have been the number one seed in the west three years in a row, and they'll have one trip to the Finals. That's it. So we can stop the hype train if the spurs take them down. They were the number one seed, lost to Luca in the second round last year, number one seed, win the title this year, number one seed if they lose to the spurs. Here I don't want to hear anything about Dynasty. Okay, except it's San Antonio, the Dynasty. I'm I'm rooting heavily spurs here if you couldn't tell already.

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[Ben Mather]

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[Ben Mather]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

welcome in. He's been covering the NBA for a long time. Now he's at Yahoo Sports, host of the Kevin o' Connor podcast and it's fascinating. San Antonio. This just doesn't work this way. Generally, NBA is a baby steps league, right? Like you get into the playoffs and you get bounced around, even Michael Jordan for a few years. Then you get Scottie Pippen. Okay, now we can win a couple of playoff series and the following year, okay, the dynasty starts. Even for the greats. I mean Del Harris had Shaq and Kobe, they were young, they weren't as dominant. Then they get a little older and mature. Here comes Phil Jackson. Okay, the dynasty starts. I mean Lebron James gets to the finals. Cleveland, they get boxed. And then he goes to Miami. Even in Miami, the Heatles. The first year they lose, then the second, third year they win tough. And the fourth year they're old. It's always been steps in pro basketball. And then here are the Spurs. Their best players are 20, 21, 22. Never been to the playoffs with this group. And now they may win the whole thing. And joining us now live, Kevin o', Connor, NBA writer. You know, you know history as well as anybody. It doesn't work this way. They should not vanquish Oklahoma City. And then the, the Knicks or the Pistons, are they good? And I mean they, they let's, in fact, let's start here. They dominated OKC in the regular season like nobody else has in two years. You watch the games. Why? What was it? Just all Wemby.

[Kevin O'Connor]

All just Wemby. But he certainly is the biggest aspect of why they dominated those matchups. Look, when Victor Wembanyama was on the floor this season against the Thunder, the Spurs held the Thunder to only a 99.6 offensive rating. Thunder had one of one of the best offenses in basketball the last two years. They have been unstoppable considering they play lineups with five guys, no matter the combination, where everybody can pass, dribble and shoot. And they have now two time MVP Shea Gildas Alexander, who can just kill you.

[Colin Cowherd]

We'll have to reconnect with Kevin o'. Connor. Yeah, it is. You know what's funny about this too is when he talks about Oklahoma City, it is amazing that basketball in just its essence, it's considered outstanding that Oklahoma City has a roster full of guys that can dribble, pass and shoot. It's not like, you know, they got a roster of guys that can spin plates on a finger. They got guys that can literally make half court shots without looking Oklahoma City, Sam Presti just has a roster of guys who can dribble the ball, pass the ball and shoot pretty well. So let's bring, let's bring Kevin back. It's, you know, it sounds so rudimentary. It's like Oklahoma City just built a roster with guys that can pass, shoot and dribble the ball. But it does feel like they've separated from big chunks of the league.

[Kevin O'Connor]

With Oklahoma City, they have no holes on their team. But with San Antonio, that's where they've closed the gap. San Antonio this year since middle of February, Dylan Harper and Stefan Castle both are shooting over 40% on catch and shoot three. So now when you face the spurs, and we saw this throughout the postseason, especially in that closeout game, the Wolves put Rudy Gobert on Castle and said, we're going to dare you to shoot. What happens? He had 11 points in the first six minutes of the first quarter of that game. He's using that space to get into the paint, hitting wide open, three pointers. Both of these team teams have no holes and that to me is what's going to make this series so fascinating. Where do you find these edges between like, is it helping off of Caruso and hoping he has a poor shooting series? Is it maybe that Harper suddenly in the Western Conference finals doesn't look, he starts looking like a rookie instead of a 10 year veteran. Where are these edges found between San Antonio and Oklahoma City? Like I've been waiting all year for this call and I just, I cannot wait for tonight with this matchup. It's just going to be so fascinating and so many different levels.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen, I've said during the year I thought Jokic was still the best player in the world. I would have voted Wemby MVP because he literally changed the calculus on both ends. Not just defense, sga.

[Kevin O'Connor]

I did call it one of five, one of five people who did it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, so my, my take is on sga. He's remarkable, but he has the support of the best deepest roster any of his defensive deficiency are covered. And I just think Jokic is the Nuggets and Wemby's the best player on the Nuggets. And I'm not saying SGA isn't great, but when you play on the best roster night to night, you don't have the burden and the heaviness of, of carrying your franchise. That's my reasoning. You voted Wemby. Why?

[Kevin O'Connor]

I mean, look, I think with Victor Wa, you've seen exactly why in this postseason he just turns you into something that you don't want to be. And with Shagil just Alexander, that's what we're going to see in this series. Right? We saw in the first round against Portland, the second round against Minnesota. He turned these teams that want to live in the paint into three point shooting teams with his mere presence this season against the Thunder. And we're going to see this starting tonight in game one. SGA took nearly half of his shots from three point range when Wemby was simply on the floor.

[Colin Cowherd]

Wow.

[Kevin O'Connor]

That was closer to a third of his shot attempts when in any other matchup against the spurs without Wemby, any other team. So he wants to get to the mid range. That elbow shot. You see SGA hit and shoot over defenders all the time. But wemby is going to defend somebody off ball. It might be Alex Caruso, it might be Jalen Williams depending on the lineup. And he's going to be shading over and just trying to scare SGA away from taking that pull up mid range and from getting into the paint. That's going to lead to less open catch and shoot opportunities for the Thunder, less driving opportunities for Shea to get into the paint, perhaps less foul drawing opportunities for Shea as well. And so I just think with with Wemby unanimous defensive player of the year, everybody voted for him offensively. I think as well, everything he does beyond the box score in terms of drawing defenders into the paint, opening up shooters for the spurs, opening up driving lanes for Castle, Harper and Fox. Those are things where sometimes Wemby, he ends up with 18 points and it looks like he didn't have a big offensive game, but he opened things up for everybody else. We've seen that so far in the postseason and that's going to be one of the keys here against San Antonio. They're probably going to try to take away Wemby, but can can other guys in the spurs take take advantage of those opportunities as they did all year long?

[Colin Cowherd]

We're going to go talk Knicks and then we'll come back and do some Lakers. But generally there's a surprise team every NBA playoff season. Last year the the fourth seeded Pacers go to a Game seven, you're like what A couple years ago an eight seated Miami Heat end up in the finals. You're like what? It happens. We all knew the Knicks were a good team. Then they made a tweak. Mike Brown did to Cat who's now like a point center and you're like oh, okay, I didn't see that coming. Are the Knicks the surprise team again? You don't have to be a bad team. The Pacers weren't bad last year, but all of a sudden they just popped icon. Or is the Knicks roster been underrated the last couple of years? Because right now I actually think the Knicks, especially against the spurs, could match up with almost anybody in the league.

[Kevin O'Connor]

Look, I think underrated or with them maybe, maybe. But it depends because I thought opening night of the year, remember Carl Anthony Towns had that quote where he's like I don't know what my role is going to look like. And all year long it's like why isn't Mike Brown using Carl Anthony Towns and dribble handoffs and creation opportunities like he did in Sacramento with the Monte Sabonis? But then in the Middle of the playoffs, they finally figured it out and they put the ball in the Cat's hands. As you said, that was the big tweak. And by doing that, it's led to Jalen Brunson playing more off ball. So far this postseason, only 30, 36% of his shots have been assisted, compared to only 19% last year. So last year, almost everything was on ball with him. This year, he's setting screens, he's cutting, getting catch and shoot opportunities, in part because they're playing through Cat. And that's caused a ripple effect felt throughout the roster. And I'll tell you what, I think this evolution with the Knicks, that's the way I put it, I think they've evolved, they found themselves. It's going to be a real challenge for Cleveland because think about what we just saw against the Pistons. Calling right stagnant, everything run through Kate Cunningham, a big. And Jalen Duran, who looks like a total bust, dropped the bag entering his free agency this offseason. And then you go against Cat, where you always have to worry about him on the perimeter. I think Cleveland is going to have a real hard time against Cat in that Brunson lineup right now.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, the, I mean, the million dollar question, not only in Los Angeles, but around the league is I think I've been told LeBron loves LA. His family loves it. They don't want to go back to Cleveland. There's a lot of talk about that, I think, and I've said this, it sounds snobby, but if once you've lived in LA as a star, it's hard to go back to Akron. You know, again, if Akron's your home and you've never lived in la, just visited, that's different. But LA is from the topography and the, the gates and the communities and you can hide. There's. I mean, I. It's just a different place, right? You there, you. Jennifer Aniston's not getting bothered by the neighbor. Like, they live in these certain enclaves. And I've been told LeBron loves that. He can kind of. He can just walk around LA and be okay. There's celebrities everywhere. So if the Lakers are like, listen, we're not interested. This is an organization that when they were on with a Buss family, there was a certain bit of, I don't know, I felt like they kind of felt like they didn't have the money or capital or maybe foresight to move off LeBron ever. This new group, the Dodgers group, moved off Manny Machado and in like all Star level baseball players just to go get better players. So I could see the new Laker owners being like, hey, we got Luca, we can move off LeBron. We've got Austin Reeves, wildly Pop and Luca, we can move off LeBron. I'm not rooting for anything other than interesting. I'd like, I think LeBron's still great. What is the, what is the vibe around your sources in the league on? I mean I can say this. They're not paying him huge money. I know that LeBron. What's the consensus?

[Kevin O'Connor]

The people I've talked to recently are more of the perspective of is LeBron going to wait to see what the Lakers do? If he indeed does want to try to pursue a championship in this last year, is he willing to take a pay cut? Well, if he is willing to take a pay cut, what are the Lakers, Lakers going to do with that extra financing? Are they going to use that salary space to upgrade its center, find more wings? What is, what is Austin Reeves going to get paid as well? The Lakers right now are in a situation where they can open up nearly $50 million in cap space if they get rid of the rights to everybody but Austin Reaves, including LeBron. But what are you going to do with that cap money if you do that? Is there something better than LeBron James who we saw him accepting that third role behind Austin Reeves and Luka Doncic prior to the injuries of those two guys and it was beautiful. It was amazing. Is there actually something better out there for the Lakers than LeBron? But is he willing to take a pay cut? To me, that's, that's the main question I have. It's the question a lot of executives have and what would the Lakers do with that money that they would open up if he indeed does.

[Colin Cowherd]

But for the record, if there was a player where they could they get LeBron to take a team friendly deal. They get Austin reeves for not 240 but 188. They get him, they get a, you know, it's a reasonable deal and they can afford to go get another really nice player. Throw a name out there. Would it be a rim protector? Would it be a wing? What's the feeling there?

[Kevin O'Connor]

First name that comes to mind is Robert Williams, current Blazer, former Celtic big man Time Lords, the Law Law center rim protector, started shooting corner threes this year with Portland as well, has had injury issues. But that's number one name that comes to mind as somebody who'd be affordable in that 10 to 22 million dollars that's a wide range. That's the name that comes to mind to me calling. But ultimately this is a. A weaker center, class of free agents. And the Lakers as well have to think about what they're going to do with their first round pick as well. This is a deeper draft. Can they get a guy ready to contribute as a rookie? That can help this team too.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's interesting. Robert Williams. Yeah. He had. I think he's from Texas A and M. He had injury issues. Yes. Yeah, that's an interesting name. They have the 25th pick in the draft. I'm not sure. I mean there's. Would you move up and try to get a Dai Mara from Michigan. The Spaniard, the Sevats. He's great defensive player, a little bit of an off. He can pass. That's fascinating. Is there a second name or is that. I mean, it is a weak center. I mean, you know, it's funny, Kevin, we thought they had Mark Williams a year ago. Right. And it got mixed. And I think Mark had a pretty good season. So. I mean, they, they wanted to free agent too.

[Kevin O'Connor]

Why not him?

[Colin Cowherd]

He had a good year.

[Kevin O'Connor]

The second name I had in mind, that's exactly the name I was thinking of was Mark Williams. You couldn't get him before. Why not go get him now?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. And he, he stayed. He stayed healthy this year, which was. Yes. He was another big. Like Robert that's had some injury issues. This good stuff. Hey, Kevin, it's great seeing you.

[Kevin O'Connor]

Likewise, Colin. Thank you so much for having me.

[Colin Cowherd]

You bet. So he voted for Wemby. I agree. And that is not an anti SGA opinion. SGA is great, but didn't lead in any major categories. I would have been a Wemby guy. But I also kind of feel like the NBA MVP has always been kind of a story award where, you know, like, like, like Westbrook's like, okay, he got abandoned by kd. He had the triple doubles. It's like, let's give, let's give Rush the mvp. Like. And I'm not. It is what it is, but I felt like the SGA story is like, I thought Wemby was the cooler story, but I think everybody in the league's preparing to just start handing trophies to Wemby. Maybe everybody's like, maybe the writers are like, he's going to get his. But you know, there's injuries. You never know what happens.

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. FS1 and the iHeartRadio app brought to

[Colin Cowherd]

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doors and at the American Military University, it can open doors for the whole family. If you have a loved one who served in the military, you may qualify for reduced tuition. AMU offers flexible online programs designed to fit your schedule so you can keep moving forward wherever life takes you. Learn [e-mail] Military open doors to the future for you and your family with the help of American Military University. Hi, it's Colin Coward. If you want your outdoor space to really stand out, Deckorator surestone technology is where you should start when you build your deck. With Deckorators Decking made with surestone technology, you're getting something totally different from the typical wood fiber composites out there. Decking with surestone technology is made through a patented process that uses crushed rock, which gives every board incredible strength and durability. And Deckorators engineered it with a unique surface design that increases traction in wet conditions. So if you live in a rainy area or you've got kids running around outside, it's a safer, more comfortable surface. Plus, there are more than 40 different color and size combos, so you can design a customized outdoor space that actually fits your home and your style. It's durable, it's safe, it looks great, and it's going to stand out. Build seasons right around the corner. Order a sample today. Visit decorators.com herd to get your free sample. That's Decorators with a k again. Decorators.com herd support for the show comes from public, so it kind of feels like there's two types of investing platforms. You got the old school brokerages that look like they were designed in like 1995. Then you have those other platforms, the ones that feel less like investing and more like a Casino Public is neither. It's the investing platform for people who actually take this stuff seriously. You know, people who are serious about building their wealth. Because on public, you can build a portfolio of stocks and options and bonds and crypto without all the bugs or the confetti. Retirement accounts. Yep. High yield cash. Of course. They even have direct indexing. Honestly, this is what investing platform should look like. Modern design, simple to use, and customer support that actually cares. Go to public.comcowherd and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.comcowherd and paid for by public

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[JMac]

The greatest spectacle in racing is coming. We're just 10 days away from the 110th running of the Indianapolis 500. Don't miss the pageantry and tradition of the biggest race in Motorsports, the Indy 500. Sunday, May 24th, on Fox.

[Colin Cowherd]

JMac with the news.

No, no, no.

Turn on the news.

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

This is the Herdline news.

[JMac]

All right, let's start with my LinkedIn profile. Just kidding, Colin. That was a funny rant, by the way. We're gonna start with the NBA mvp. It was sga, but interestingly, Wemby finished top five, maybe earlier than expected. Colin, I don't know if you saw this. An anonymous quote from an NBA executive. Wemby, the best player I've ever seen. Now, I love Wemby as much as you. I had to quadruple check. He's 22 years old. Can we name someone? The best player I've ever seen at 22. We haven't seen if he's gonna get better. I mean, if he gets better, sure. But the hype train has left the station. It's a little out of control. The best I've ever seen.

[Colin Cowherd]

Come on. Well, I thought the best prospect ever was interesting because that's a way to not definitively land the plane yet, but it's like he's. He's the best potential prospect ever. I thought that was fair because Jordan got drafted third and LeBron may have been. I mean, you could argue, go back to the 60s. Bill Russell was dominating college basketball, pro basketball. His ability to be a big man and run the floor. I mean, that. I mean, I don't. John Elway is thought of as one of the great prospects. But it's hard to be the best player ever, if your game isn't refined on one end of the floor. Offensively, he has bad nights. Offensively, he's not there yet. Defensively, leadership, I'd give him all those. But you can't be the best player. I mean, I always say about LeBron, his first three years in the league, he didn't really have a consistent long range jump shot and then he slowly developed it and by like year four, you're like, I don't know what the numbers are exactly, but I felt, first couple of years I watched him, I'm like, he's a freight train. But his game is, it's, it needs to be softened and nuanced. And then LeBron did that. I, I, I, I still think there's a step or two to Wimby's offensive game and maybe Oklahoma City on, you know, unveils some defensive strategies tonight that he struggles with. They certainly have the size.

[JMac]

Yeah, 22. Nobody's close to a finished product. I mean, I think, think LeBron 22, 23 ish was when he took that Cavs team to the finals and you were like, oh, this guy's going to be nasty. Right? I'll just say this about SGA because the last guest, Kevin o', Connor, had an interesting stat that like, you know, SGA does not take his mid range when Wemby's on the court. I was like, interesting. So he's the MVP SGA over Wemby and Jokic and Luka. But he is a jack of all trades, but master of none. Like SGA is going to get hunted tonight on defense. Watch that by the way. He's like a fine defender, but he's not great, he's not a great three point shooter. He doesn't play above the rim. And we just got the stats that he's not the master of the mid range when Wemby's on the court. So what does SGA do that's so great? We know he's a great player, but what's his like, Jokic?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, I think there's, there's, there's a short list of players that he's on which is the greatest mid range shooter ever. You know, I always joke, when I was a kid growing up, it was Alex English, you know, and then There

[JMac]

was Michael SGA's Alex English. How many MVPs for Alex English, by the way?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, no, again, I think he manipulates officials smartly. I think, I don't know, I think there's beyond, I think there's a Lot of nuance to sg. I think he's super mature.

[JMac]

Yes.

[Colin Cowherd]

Super calculated, manipulative in a good way. I mean, he's just great. You need a basket in the fourth quarter, you just give the ball to him and he's going to get a shot or go to the free throw line. So, I mean, again, we in the NBA, a lot of our great players, Shaq, Kobe, Dr. J, were just, what, magic. We're wildly dynamic. And I think that's why it's hard for him to be a face of the league. His game's not flashy, his game's not, wow. It's just, man, he got 32 again tonight. It's one of those things.

[JMac]

Well, it's funny, at the event we were at this weekend, I saw Jeff Teague, the former NBA point guard.

[Colin Cowherd]

Great guy.

[JMac]

Great guy. Awesome. I tried to recruit him to my men's league team. He lives in Indiana. Didn't happen. But I was talking to him about sga. I'm like, bro, you just watched Marcus Smart play great defense on him, and he was, SGA was slowed down. He was, he did not have a great series against the Lakers. He's like, yeah, and Castle's a better defender than Marcus Smart. And the numbers show that Steph Castle this season defended SGA one on one, better than anyone in the league. I'm just saying. I know, obviously SGA is a great player, Colin.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[JMac]

But is he that much better than Wemby this year? No way. This is crazy. I, I, I'm disappointed in the voters. I don't know the one. He's the best ever. But as a mvp, who you got, Wemby or SGA this year?

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, I thought it was Wemby.

[JMac]

Thank you. All right, finally we can move on to Pittsburgh Steelers and your guy, Aaron Rodgers. I know everybody in Pittsburgh's excited. Colin. Pittsburgh's voluntary OTAs begin today. Rogers was at the team facility this morning. His new deal, about $22 million guaranteed, can reach 25 mil with bonuses. I don't know who it was, but somebody compared it saying Rogers got more than Malik Willis guaranteed. And I think you've been gassing up Malik Willis here for a couple months now. I'm a little surprised by this contract. They now have four quarterbacks, okay. One that McCarthy inherited in Mason Rudolph, and then there was Will Howard, who they drafted last year. They like him in the building. Breer said that. And then Drew Aller, who McCarthy presided over the draft with the new GM and selected Drew Aller. So I don't I just don't get this process at all.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, I. I believe privately they would never admit it, but if you gave a true serum to Mike McCarthy, he would have rather gone into the season, played Drew Aller and Will Howard, taken his lumps. That's what I. But I think the Rooneys aren't willing to do that. And so I think Mike McCarthy, as the old term is, took a bullet for the team. I don't think he wants to go back with Aaron Ryan. I mean, do you really? Have you ever known a football coach in your life, in your life that got a new job and said, you know what I really want? I want to deal with an old quarterback who's not what he used to be. That's kind of expensive. Oh, by the way, we were at odds the last time I coached him. Yeah, I mean, I remember when, like, I remember when it was Jimmy Johnson, they had to move off Dan Marino. It's uncomfortable. Dan Marino was not happy. It's one of those, you know, meetings that everybody just, like, dreads the night before. But I think Mike McCarthy. Ask yourself if you don't think I'm right. Ask yourself in life if you took over a job, any job, anywhere, your first year on the job and you're in management and you could start fresh with a couple of young people. You didn't know how great they are, but you could really see them develop. Or you were asked this old expensive guy who you had a feud with in the last job, and it was like, ugly, and he threw you under the bus kind of privately. What. What person would say, I'll take that option? I think you can say all you want. I think Mike McCarthy took a bullet for the franchise because I think it's going to be eventually. This is not going to be Kumbaya.

[JMac]

Treading water with Aaron Rodgers. Have fun. Pittsburgh final story Con. Let's go to LeBron James. Haven't talked about him a lot. I saw him over the weekend playing golf on ig. Looks like he was having fun. Can you play golf in Cleveland in the winter? Because according to another report. This is Yahoo. Sports Sports. The Cavs and Warriors are potentially in the mix for LeBron. I don't know that I'm buying this report. Yahoo Sports had it. I. I just. I don't see a world where he goes to Cleveland. By the way, how about the Cavs going to the Easter Conference finals? Does this help their cause of keeping the team together? I don't know.

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

You.

[JMac]

You're throwing LeBron in this mix and then you got the warriors where Steve Kerr's returning. We don't know about Draymond Curry. Hopefully help you, Jimmy.

[Colin Cowherd]

If I could, if I could root for anything, I would root for LeBron to be a Warrior. That would be a fun watch. I don't think it'd be a championship team. It'd be a great watch.

[JMac]

Adam Silver is with you.

[Colin Cowherd]

Probably J. Mac with the news.

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the Herd lie news, man.

[Colin Cowherd]

We got. I got all sorts of stuff today. I can't even get to some of the stuff we have. Mike defebo is going to be joining us next hour. He was at the Steelers practice. That'll be interesting. Check that LinkedIn profile. J Mac, you don't want to be taken to the cleaners again.

[JMac]

Again. What

[Colin Cowherd]

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[JMac]

Org.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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