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- [00:00]
Jason McIntyre
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:04]
Covino
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Rich Davis
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Rich Davis
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- [02:51]
Covino
Thanks for listening to The Herd Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd@foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks for listening to the Herd Podcast.
- [03:13]
Rich Davis
Welcome back, our number two here on the Herd. A beautiful Monday morning in Los Angeles. It's a bit of a heat wave out here. It touched 80 over the weekend. We're in the South Bay. Brutal.
- [03:25]
Jason McIntyre
What are we gonna do?
- [03:27]
Rich Davis
Jason McIntyre in for Colin Coward, joined by Rachel Nichols telling us Brett Favre lawn stories. I love it. She's got a lot of good stuff.
- [03:37]
Jason McIntyre
Covered the NFL for more than a decade. There's a lot of good stories buried in there for sure.
- [03:42]
Rich Davis
Goodness, we got Mike Jones of the Athletic coming up. I I this Aaron Rodgers stuff I was thinking about on the elevator. Ro I'm not going to fire it now. We touched on earlier. We'll get to Aaron Rodgers here shortly. But I want to start briefly with a team and a player near and dear to Colin Cowherd, and that's Caleb Williams of the Bears. Listen, the preseason has basically all the oxygen has been sucked out by like four guys. Michael Parsons, Shador Sanders. Caleb Williams definitely leading the charge. Aaron Rodgers is distant third or fourth. But this Caleb Williams stuff is just, I don't, I don't know what to make of it. Again, two years ago, the talk was, okay, he could be the face of the NFL in four years. We get so freaking excited about these guys for one season of college football. Some dynamic throws. Caleb Williams, he was awesome at times for usc. Then he fell into like the backyard quarterback stuff and now he gets a good coach and we're expecting greatness. And the last month has been anything but great from Caleb Williams and cryptic stuff from Ben Johnson. All right, I'm not going to be out here hammering Caleb Williams again. Last week I mentioned Johnny Manziel and all the sycophants in Chicago like, came after me. Folks, listen to Ben Johnson after their preseason game against the Chiefs.
- [05:08]
Mike Jones
You listen to this offensively. First two possessions was really sloppy football that has plugged us in and out of camp so far. It is disappointing to me offensively for sure because I thought that we kind of worked our way out of that. The first quarter was really any indication. It's not good enough. So we got to get better in a hurry. But yeah, we got to make sure that we start faster on offense. And on defense.
- [05:39]
Rich Davis
Oh, boy. Now listen, this is his first rodeo as a head coach. OC in Detroit behind walk around guy Dan Campbell, who we will get to interesting story on Campbell later in the show, but is Ben Johnson coming in a little bit hot here? A lot of veiled comments about Caleb. And I don't want to. I don't know Caleb, I've never spoken to him, but I don't want to presume his psyche. But there were some things we saw in college, hey, maybe he was a college kid where he didn't exactly react great when things were not going his way. And I'm going to play a clip for you here about Ben Johnson. Talking about someone. But before I play it, we're running highlights from their Chiefs game. The very first play was a fumble with Caleb Williams under center. Now, it was on the handoff, but still, that's not crisp, that's sloppy, bro. You're a second year quarterback. You're face of the franchise. Bears fans are like, oh, is he going to throw for 4,000 yards? Who cares? Can we get the snap and the cadence down? Okay, so here's a quote. Listen to Ben Johnson. I'm not going to tell you the answer until the end, but think about who he's talking about here.
- [06:53]
Mike Jones
I've really been blown away by his approach from the spring to the start of camp to where we are now. He does a tremendous job knowing what to do, how to do it and in getting it done.
- [07:08]
Rich Davis
Okay, it's. He's not talking about Caleb Williams. He's gassing up his backup quarterback. As Rachel said, first hour, the backup quarterback's always the most popular guy in town. That's Tyson Bagen, whose father was like a proclaimed arm wrestler. And oh, by the way, Baja just got a new deal.
- [07:25]
Jason McIntyre
Huh?
- [07:26]
Rich Davis
What are you giving a backup quarterback?
- [07:28]
Covino
Who?
- [07:28]
Rich Davis
I mean, I'm not of the belief that he's like one of the elite quarterbackups in the league, but that had to raise some eyebrows in the Caleb Williams camp. No paying this backup. It's my job. Yeah, we get that, but we want some insurance. That's not a good sign. Now, again, this is all preseason. Maybe the live bullets start firing and Caleb is unbelievable. But I've got my doubts, folks. I'm not gonna lie. All right, let's bring in Mike Jones from the athletic covers. The NFL. Covered the NFL for the last 15 years. Worked at the Washington Post. Someone here knows that. Someone here read that newspaper growing up and someone here worked for that newspaper. Mike, how are you, man?
- [08:11]
Mike Jones
I'm doing well. How are you guys doing this morning?
- [08:12]
Rich Davis
You know, I can't complain. It's Monday, Football's almost here. We're 10 days away from the opener. I do have to ask though, you know, you do a lot of podcasts, you're going on a lot of TV radio shows. Are you surprised by the amount of questions about Shadour Sanders, a fifth round pick who is fourth on the depth chart? Like he's the topic du jour in the NFL?
- [08:34]
Mike Jones
Yeah, I mean, I have written a lot about him, you know, coming out of the draft and there's been just a huge buzz about the Sanders and him and also his brother as well. And, you know, Yeah, I was talking to somebody just this morning and about all the. Just the scrutiny that is surrounding him and the Browns and the handling of him. And I'm like, you know, when you really think about it, this is a fifth round pick. Like, we don't really talk about fifth round pick quarterbacks. And yeah, their opportunities are limited, but this isn't a normal 5th round pick. This is a guy that we thought would go a lot higher and whose skill set we are led to believe is, you know, much better than a regular 5th round pick. So again, the brand, the name, everything has just made this a bigger deal. He is. I'm putting together my list of 25 most intriguing players entering the 2025 season. And I'm not going to, you know.
- [09:27]
Rich Davis
He'S probably on that list, probably top five now. It's interesting you use a word, Mike. You said brand. A rookie quarterback who was taken in the fifth round has a brand. I'm trying to think Josh Allen, when he came into the league from Wyoming, what was his brand? Did Patrick Mahomes have one out of Texas Tech? Like the fact that he has a brand, like, great for him, but I don't know that that's actually what you want your quarterback having coming out of college, is it?
- [09:55]
Mike Jones
Well, I mean, this is a new even, you know, a new age. Even from when Josh Allen and when Patrick Mahomes were coming out. Yeah, they didn't have brands. You know, there wasn't the whole. There was social media, but not the level that it is now where guys have YouTube channels and nil deals and all kinds of things like that. You know, this guy's got a Hall of Fame football coach, father, you know, and so football player turned football coach as a father. So yeah, there's a whole lot more with here. But I think that the thing that is most important Is. Does he have a work ethic? You know, yeah, he's got a brand. Does have work ethic. Does he have, you know, teachability and all those things? The athleticism, everything it takes to be an NFL player. As long as you have that, then teams don't care if you have a brand. But, you know, you're talking about Caleb Williams. He certainly, you know, had kind of a brand coming out and, you know, it's not always about that stuff. It's what you can do on this higher level than what you were in college.
- [10:55]
Rich Davis
You're right. It is kind of a new era. I think Johnny Manziel probably had a brand. Is that fair to say, coming out of A M? I don't know if it was a good brand. Right, but it was a brand.
- [11:05]
Mike Jones
Yeah, there were. There was a kind of a cult following type of thing about him. You know, I don't think it's quite the whole, you know, is the same level as Shadors, but yeah, kind of.
- [11:17]
Rich Davis
Like that Trevor Lawrence kind of a. He's in. Is he a bust or not? Cat? But I don't think he has a brand. He just hasn't been a good quarterback. I mean, he's not in jeopardy of getting benched. But let's spin it forward. A. Do you think the Browns keep Shador? Do you think they. Is it possible? I floated the idea of trading him to the Raiders, just getting him off the roster, getting whatever. You can just take a seventh round pick. They'll take the loss. I don't know. What's your guess for Shador? Week one?
- [11:47]
Mike Jones
No, I mean, I think that he's on the team. I'm not saying that he's going to be active in week one, but I think that he's going to be on this team. There are still people in that building who really believe in his potential. And look, if he's not ready, it's okay. They have a really tough stretch of their season here. To open this schedule, you would be much more comfortable with Joe Flacco going up against some of those defenses like, you know, you know, in Detroit and Green Bay and Baltimore. Why throw a rookie to the Wolves like that? But there's also questions about the handling of Shador and the developmental plan and if the Browns are all on the same page on how to get him ready, you know, and so there are questions about that, but I think that, yeah, he's going to be on this team. We'll see what the progress is. I wouldn't be surprised, you know, Late this year, we wind up seeing him on the field. It wouldn't surprise me at all.
- [12:41]
Rich Davis
Interesting. Let's go to Aaron Rodgers briefly, hopefully only briefly. He kind of was talking on a podcast with DK Metcalf, and TK Metcalf floated, hey, maybe, maybe you're staying beyond this year. You know, maybe we'll run it back. And Aaron Rodgers said, maybe. Mike, what are we to take of Aaron Rodgers at this point? I mean, we haven't even got to the him versus Arthur Smith stuff that's going to bubble up inevitably. But, like, where are you on Rodgers in Pittsburgh? Are they. Is he going to make your most intriguing list?
- [13:14]
Mike Jones
Yeah, look, he. Everything is great right now. I was up there for training camp in Latrobe a couple of weeks ago and you know, he's talking about loving, like remembering how to play video games and playing cards with the guys and connecting and being in this, you know, backed with a stable, storied franchise, kind of like in Green Bay with the head coach he really respects and all that stuff. But there are no bullets are flying yet. And so we'll see what happens when that offensive line struggles to protect him and the run game is just kind of meh and, you know, can this defense provide the backing it needs? Seems like they've added pieces like Jalen Ramsey and Slay, and they retained TJ Watt and extended him. But still, there are a lot of questions here. And so I wrote about that, like, hey, the feel good vibes are good, but that's going to take way more than that. And it's more to do what's around Aaron Rodgers that's going to say how successful this is. And just like you said, we saw it in New York, everything was great. And then when things started getting hairy, there was finger pointing and Rodgers not afraid to pull back the curtain and call out dysfunction. And so we could see that happen in Pittsburgh. Yes, we think of them as really stable under Mike Tomlin, you know, nose losing seasons. But if this thing is not playing out really well, we could see a frustrated Rodgers definitely air some dirty laundry.
- [14:35]
Rich Davis
Oh, can't wait for that one. Let's go to Washington. Terry McLaurin just got his new deal today. Three years, 96 mil. Happy for Washington. Rachel has some concerns about the defense. I am a little skeptical. I grew up in the D.C. area. A lot of my buddies are like, doing that again run to the NFC championship would be difficult. You wrote a piece on Daniels last month that I thought was a good one. I'm curious. Your Thoughts on Washington can they even come close to duplicating last year's heroics?
- [15:05]
Mike Jones
Well, that's going to be tough. You know, they came out of nowhere. Now they're on everybody's radar. They can't sneak up on anybody. I think the moves that they've made in the off season, Adam Peters and Dan Quinn, as they put this thing together, the roster is definitely is better as a whole, but that doesn't mean that they're going to have a better season. To have a better season, they basically have to get back to the FC Championship and get to the Super Bowl. That's the only way you top that. Now you have expectations, you know. So I still think they can win 10 games, but that doesn't mean that they're going to wind up making a deeper playoff run. I still think that Philadelphia winds up winning that division. They just are so strong top to bottom. But it's going to be interesting for Washington how they continue to evolve. What do they do to stay a step ahead of the defenses? Cliff Kingsbury and Jaden Daniels, I think they have the potential to have a really good season again, but again it's a tougher season, tougher schedule of games, tougher competition. So it'll be hard to surpass last year.
- [16:02]
Rich Davis
Yeah, specifically that defense like Jaden Daniels just kept bailing them out last year. I think they had five or six wins in the final minute or what have you. I'm looking at that front seven and it's like that is toothless, like they got old dudes and kind of not to be disrespectful, just non factors. I mean Marshawn Lattimore hasn't been healthy in half a decade. So I just don't know how they stop anybody. And they're in a division where the Eagles offense is a juggernaut. Brian Dable is a sharp guy. Malik neighbors are very good and let's be real, Dallas has Dak Pickens and CD Lamb. Like that alone is going to give Washington problems. So I don't Is there a world where they slip back to third in the division?
- [16:44]
Mike Jones
I do think that they in Dallas will be going back and forth head to head for that number two spot right there. It's possible I agree with you on your concerns about the defense they brought in Von Miller, but I don't know that he's really the answer as far as a pass rusher. You know it's going to take a lot of creativity from Dan Quinn. Once again, Bobby Wagner is a guy who Sets a good tone, but, you know, he's not a spring chicken. And that secondary, you know, there are a lot of questions and I don't know, they've drafted some young guys and we'll see how they develop, but I don't know that they were really able to take this defense to another level. But I guess they're hoping with Terry McLaurin, Debo Samuel, Jaden Daniels that maybe their offense can put up more points and so they won't have to rely on those close finishes. But that's a lot of ifs.
- [17:31]
Rich Davis
Yeah. Let me ask you, Mike. I missed this news last week while I was out. The Colts decided Daniel Jones is our guy. You know, kind of surprising, but Richardson did not have an inspiring preseason. He's always hurt. Still not accurate. So let's give Daniel Jones props for getting out of Minnesota.
- [17:48]
Mike Jones
Right.
- [17:48]
Rich Davis
He knew he wasn't going to play with McCarthy there gets to a spot where he can play. But what does this do for Richardson? Like, this is kind of. I mean, they drafted him to be the guy, and now it's like you can't even beat out Daniel Jones, who, let's be real, is not a good quarterback. Is Richardson's time up in Indy or what are you hearing?
- [18:06]
Mike Jones
Yeah, No, I think that's very concerning because, look, obviously he was a guy that you knew. Yes, physically, a specimen, had some great college tape, doesn't have a whole lot of college tape. I don't think he's actually had. You know, I think it was a stat that I heard last week that it was. He doesn't even have 2,000 plays yet under his belt between college and the NFL. So it takes a while to develop. And so you're hoping that you do the things, all the things, carry yourself like a pro and continue to develop. But from the sounds of things, he was not doing all of those things. That's the reason why last year he got benched, because they were hoping to get through to him and kind of get his attention. And they went to Joe Flacco for a little bit here. And again, the durability is an issue. You know, the coaches say the best ability is availability. And if you're not able to stay on the field, not carrying yourself like a pro, then you're going to go to a guy. And so it's going to be hard to go back to him unless he totally, you know, kind of, you know, gets in line and is doing all the work and growing through practice reps. But that's not the same as game speed. It's going to be tough. Yes. They're going to Daniel Jones. They're going to have to run the ball a whole lot. I think that's the blueprint that the Giants showed a couple of years ago when they made it to the playoffs. Squeaked in there. They relied on Saquon Barkley a whole lot. They didn't put a whole lot on to Daniel Jones shoulders. I think Indy will lean on the run game, lean on their defense and hope that Daniels can just take care of the football. As you know, you're not going to get a whole lot of touchdown passes out of him because that was definitely not something that he was known for in New York.
- [19:37]
Rich Davis
Yeah. I gotta ask Mike, just listening to you answer that. I'm just trying to think back. We've seen a lot of these quarterbacks who go top five, top ten. It seems like more than normal in the last, I don't know, five, six, seven years. And they seem to flop in their first spot, but they can thrive afterward. Baker Mayfield comes to mind. Sam Darnold comes to mind. Anthony Richardson. There's others. I'm just wondering, do you think, what do you think this is about? Is it guys are getting overdrafted? Is it we still don't know how to identify quarterbacks. What's the issue?
- [20:13]
Mike Jones
Well, I think that there's this pressure, okay, we got this guy we need. You know, lots of times they're drafted to bad franchises, right? The guys like Patrick Mahomes, who the Chiefs jumped up to trade and draft him, and then he sat behind Alex Smith for a year and was able to develop. A lot of these are bad franchises except for, you know, San Francisco. They had Trey Lance, but it wasn't a real developmental plan for a lot of these guys. And they're playing sooner than what they should. They should, okay. If you're going to spend that high pick on a guy, okay, but have a veteran in place, let him start, let this guy learn. Especially some of these guys like Trey Lance, Anthony Richardson, who don't have a whole lot of college experience. The guys who are three and four year starters, it doesn't happen a whole lot anymore. But those guys are better off coming into the NFL. Like Jaden Daniels had a lot of experience in college and that's why he was able to make a better transition. But so many of these young guys, they're playing sooner than they need to and then the patience is not there because coaches don't have a whole lot of time to save their jobs. Before owners get impatient and, you know, heads start to roll. And so it's just a whole mess in the way that they're drafting, developing or not developing and playing guys sooner than they should.
- [21:25]
Rich Davis
Yeah, I'm looking at the list. It's not just a Covid thing either. There were, you know, Bryce Young, by the way. This could be his last sh. But there's been other guys, and I'm just, you know, you see names like Josh Rosen, Mitch Trubisky. There's no given that even Caleb Williams is going to work out in Chicago. I don't want to be too negative. I know people. Jason, come on. He's going to be fine. Is he, Mike? I can't say for sure. Can you?
- [21:51]
Mike Jones
No, we can't say for sure. But the thing is, you have to remember he was in such an awful situation last year. Then you have, like, three offensive coordinators throughout the course of the year. And so if you are learning and then everything keeps getting changed, and now you have a new coach, you have got to learn a new language, a new way of doing things. I think that this is going to be a year for a growing pains for him. But if he can get on the same page and understand and take all the tutoring that the math, the mad scientist that Ben Johnson is, then I think it's possible that we could see him still be okay. It's way too early to pull the plug or to panic, but you have to understand that, again, he's having to relearn a lot of things. Last year, we saw him get sacked more than any other quarterback in the league. They did upgrade their offensive line, but lots of times he was trying to make something out of nothing, thinking he'd do what he did at usc, where he's running around, you know, across the field and back the other way. You know, you got defensive linemen that are faster than that and are going to plant you into the ground now. So you got to learn to get rid of the ball quickly, make good decisions, and that's what he's going to have to understand if he wants to make it in the NFL.
- [22:59]
Covino
And.
- [22:59]
Mike Jones
And I think it's possible. It's just going to take some time.
- [23:02]
Rich Davis
All right. We could wrap up, you know, for fantasy purposes. Some of us may have three or four drafts this week. Matthew Stafford, what are you hearing on the Rams quarterback? Because there's a lot of people out here in the dark thinking, like, oh, it's going to be bad. I don't know. Rams, they're not going to the Super Bowl. But there's also a whiff of, hey, man, he's old. He doesn't want to play in the preseason. He's going to be fine. Which side do you fall on here?
- [23:25]
Mike Jones
I think that you can be cautiously optimistic that, okay, he knows the system inside and out. You know, they're being extra cautious with him because they know that they can't afford for him to, you know, get hurt in the preseason and then be banged up throughout the whole year. But again, if you were in that situation and it's that nerve wracking, it just takes one hit in week one to throw things off the rails. And so we'll see what happens. I thought when we're entering the off season the way that they finished last year, I thought, okay, the Rams are my pick to win that division. They might make some noise. I'm not so confident now. I'm a little bit skittish just because of what we've seen. We have heard as of late that he has returned to practice. He's not having any discomfort and things. So that's, that's positive. But again, he hasn't gotten hit yet. And so a lot is riding on the health of that back.
- [24:19]
Rich Davis
By the way, they open up against the Houston Texans, who maybe have a top four defense in the league, certainly front four. And they also have Philadelphia in week three. So you're probably on to something. Mike Stafford's gonna get tested early. All right, Mike Jones, the athletic. Great stuff, man. Thanks a lot for your time, Mike.
- [24:35]
Mike Jones
All right, thanks for having me.
- [24:36]
Rich Davis
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.
- [24:45]
Covino
Hey, it's Steve Covino.
- [24:46]
Rich Davis
And I'm Rich Davis.
- [24:47]
Covino
And together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.
- [24:50]
Rich Davis
You can catch us weekdays from 5.
- [24:52]
Mike Jones
To 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
- [24:55]
Rich Davis
And of course, the iHeartRadio app.
- [24:57]
Covino
Why should you listen to Covino and Rich?
- [24:59]
Mike Jones
We talk about everything.
- [25:00]
Rich Davis
Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world.
- [25:03]
Covino
We have a lot of fun talking.
- [25:04]
Mike Jones
About the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. Discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out.
- [25:17]
Covino
We like to get you involved, too.
- [25:19]
Mike Jones
Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the Most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio maybe the most interactive.
- [25:26]
Rich Davis
Show on planet Earth.
- [25:27]
Covino
Be sure to check out Covino and Rich Live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm.
- [25:31]
Mike Jones
Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific.
- [25:33]
Rich Davis
And if you miss any of the.
- [25:34]
Covino
Live show, just search Ko Vino and.
- [25:36]
Mike Jones
Rich wherever you get your podcast and of course course on social media.
- [25:38]
Covino
That's Covino and Rich.
- [25:42]
Rachel Nichols
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Covino
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- [28:31]
Covino
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- [29:32]
Rich Davis
Back here on the Herd. Great stuff from Mike Jones at the Athletic. Lot of fun topics happening in the NFL, but also we've got an NBA one. Let's go to Rachel Nichols with the news.
- [29:43]
Mike Jones
No, no, no. Turn on the news.
- [29:46]
Rich Davis
This is the Herdline news.
- [29:49]
Jason McIntyre
Jason, let's start. They look sharp this weekend. Closed out their preseason with nice stuff from Patrick Mahomes. He finished with 143 yards and touchdown across three drives against the Bears. We've got Mahomes talking about getting back to the Super Bowl. Andy Reid talking about getting back to the Super Bowl. Travis Kelsey talking about getting back to the Super Bowl. We've got Las Vegas, Jason.
- [30:12]
Rich Davis
Yes.
- [30:13]
Jason McIntyre
Saying that the Chiefs are the fourth best, fourth best odds to win the Super Bowl. And yet you, Jason McIntyre, do you still not believe they're even gonna make the playoffs?
- [30:26]
Rich Davis
Yeah, that's my prediction. I've Had a couple wrong predictions in my career. Have you had any ever?
- [30:33]
Jason McIntyre
I mean, you know.
- [30:34]
Rich Davis
Yeah, it happens. I just. I've gone over it all summer. Yes, I understand Mahomes looked good in the preseason finale. Schedule is not easy. He's faced Lamar, Herbert Hertz all early. I don't know where are you on Kelce? I know he's talking about the super bowl, but actions over words. He's doing photo shoots and he's prancing around the country with his cool girlfriend Taylor. I got no problem with that. But I'm just saying, like words and actions. I don't know.
- [31:05]
Jason McIntyre
He certainly looks better than he did coming into the last couple of seasons. So there's. The action I'm looking for is how much does he appear to have been working out? He was doing a lot of stuff down in Florida. It seemed as if he is refocused going into this season and he's earned us taking his word for it. So I'm. I'm okay with that. The problem to me with the Chiefs, I think they're making the playoffs. I don't have any question about that, but I would not say that they are going back to the Super Bowl. They just haven't figured out how to recapture that magic they had with Patrick Mahomes. The explosiveness rate for this offense has gone down and down and down 9% last season. That puts them 29th in the league. And you are talking about a quarterback that has one of the most potentials for explosive plays in the entire league. So you look at who they got in there. I just. I don't think they had a great offseason.
- [32:00]
Rich Davis
Are you of the belief defenses have taken it away from Mahomes and that was kind of his superpower? Let me just shuck it up to Tyreek Hill or whoever's going to run under it. And defense, like, we're not giving that to you. The two high shell. Hey, every. Keep everything in front Mahomes. You're gonna eventually be like, I gotta chuck it. So does he figure it out easily this year with a. I don't want to call Kelsey washed, but he's coming off the worst year of his career. I'm not calling him that. But he is coming off a terrible Super Bowl. Do they have enough underneath threats like is Rasheed Rice gonna get it done?
- [32:33]
Jason McIntyre
No. And by the way, not an explosive receiver either. So even though he's back and that should help them this season, that kind of stuff you're talking about with the Mahomes sort of being able to do the Mahomes razzle dazzle.
- [32:45]
Rich Davis
Yeah.
- [32:46]
Jason McIntyre
And we don't even know how much Rashi Rice is going to be around. That's a good point. As this arbitration case coming up, there's talk about him missing six games according to sources of what the league wants. Obviously the Chiefs want him more at four games. We'll have to see. I mean he's going to be around in a 17 game season but how disruptive that ends up being is going to be a question. I don't know. Again, I think the Chiefs will be fine this year.
- [33:10]
Rich Davis
What's fine? 10, 11, 12.
- [33:12]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah, I mean look, I just don't see them getting to the super bowl again because you've got the Baltimore Ravens where it feels like man this could be their year. You've got the Bills and Josh Allen where it feels like man, really they are ready to break through. So I expect, look, the Chiefs are again going to get some wins off of those one score games. They were so exceptional at it last year. You know there's a regression to the mean. You don't think that luck is going to go completely in that direction. But it wasn't just luck. You are talking about such an experienced play caller and Andy Reid, a guy like Patrick Mahomes who can do anything he wants out there when he has the opportunity. I think they will rack up some extra wins the same way they did last season. But they just don't feel to me like they are oh man, they're a favorite to win the Super Bowl.
- [33:59]
Rich Davis
And the offensive line, they like to.
- [34:01]
Jason McIntyre
Leave and make the playoffs.
- [34:02]
Rich Davis
Yeah, missing the playoffs but the offensive line stuff, everybody's like oh this guy Simmons they got out of Ohio State, hey man, he's a game. What a steal. Can we have him play a game in the NFL? Like they're just so excited because tackle has been an issue.
- [34:15]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah.
- [34:15]
Rich Davis
In the two super bowl losses but.
- [34:18]
Jason McIntyre
They'Ve taken some hits to their defensive line as well. So you know, we'll have to see how plays out. But man, not making the playoffs. Jason.
- [34:25]
Rich Davis
Go big or go home, Rachel.
- [34:28]
Jason McIntyre
Let's talk about another guy who's likely not making the playoffs. Cam Ward. Strong preseason though. He did orchestrated orchestrated TD drive in his first action. He did not throw any touchdowns in his three appearances. With a week one matchup in the road against the Broncos on the horizon, Brian Callahan is confident in his rookie.
- [34:47]
Mike Jones
Quarterback taking listen his command's been outstanding. You know it doesn't, he doesn't get rattled. He fights through, you know, we've over, we've had some long down and distances. He's made some plays, he's made some really nice throws.
- [34:59]
Rich Davis
There's just that confidence in his demeanor.
- [35:01]
Mike Jones
That I have when he's in there. That, that this is, you know, none of it's too big for him and he really operates calmly and finds completions and those are the things that we've worked on over training camp. He's going to be able to make the big plays, you know, that's what he does. And he's going to be able to move around more when I don't have the governor on him to don't take any hits. But I think all of that stuff has been really positive. He's done well in his limited showing and I feel confident where he's at.
- [35:25]
Jason McIntyre
Look, Brian Callahan is the guy who helped develop Joe Burrow. Yeah, right. He was the offensive coordinator and Joe has credited him with making a huge difference. So they have the right guy there. It seems to help develop Cam Ward. But Cam Ward will still be playing on that offense, which is horrible. Jason, what do you think the outlook is for his rookie season?
- [35:45]
Rich Davis
I'm actually bullish. Listen, you remember Jaden Daniels obviously watching.
- [35:50]
Mike Jones
Sure.
- [35:51]
Rich Davis
Nobody had them winning double digit games. It was like new coach, new oc, new owner, new everything. And he just, all the attention was on Caleb Williams. Jaden Daniels quietly was amazing. I don't see why Cam Ward can't orchestrate some magic in Tennessee. I like the offensive line changes. Like you said, Callahan's excellent. Could they could use a few more receivers. I hate to give away fantasy strategy, but Tony Pollard is going to eat big time this year. I like him a lot. So I'm, I think they can win the division. I did go to Vegas and one of my bets was Titans to win that division. It's kind of a long shot, but every year you know this, somebody goes like worst to first. I don't see why it can't be Tennessee.
- [36:33]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah, I'm not sure I'm going to go that far, but I appreciate your optimism. I do think Cam Ward appears to be special. Right. It's not just not what he does on the field, it's the way he approaches the game. He seems wise beyond his years. He knows how to deal with the media. He's a leader on that team already. The guys really respect him, which is tough when you're walking in there as a rookie. He had that fight in training camp.
- [36:53]
Rich Davis
Yes.
- [36:53]
Jason McIntyre
Remember where a lot of people were like, oh See, he's showing toughness and he's gritty.
- [36:58]
Mike Jones
Yeah.
- [36:58]
Jason McIntyre
Can you imagine if Shador Sanders got in a fight like that in training camp?
- [37:02]
Rich Davis
We did three hours on that, right?
- [37:04]
Jason McIntyre
Exactly. I'm not sure people would say, oh, that's great, he's gritty. But, yeah, look, in this context, Cam Ward is definitely showing he belongs in the NFL, and that's a big deal when you haven't even played a game yet.
- [37:15]
Rich Davis
Yeah. And will Levis, I think, got hurts out for the year.
- [37:17]
Jason McIntyre
I believe he is.
- [37:18]
Rich Davis
So Ward is going to have like a long leash. It's like, hey, man, you screw up, that's fine. You throw three picks, that's okay. Yeah, we're going to play through it.
- [37:24]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah.
- [37:24]
Rich Davis
I like Tennessee a little this year to surprise him, but not in week one. Denver probably murders them at Mile High.
- [37:30]
Jason McIntyre
I don't think it's going to be. I don't think it's going to be. That's the biggest threat there of week one, right. Got that. All right. To the NBA. All offseason we've heard about reports, right, LeBron being unhappy with the Lakers. The Lakers shifting their focus from him to Luka Doncic. Now, over the summer, there was talk about LeBron potentially forcing his way out. I will tell you, I've never thought that was going to happen, but. But clearly unhappy. And he is going to stay in la. Of course, there is a team, though, that wants to pry him out of the Lakers and thinks that maybe, at least by the trade deadline, they can get him. It is the Golden State Warriors. A report that they have repeatedly been going after him three or four times in the last 18 months. And the latest trade package they're offering. Right. Well, it involves, like taking. I mean, the main part of it is taking Jimmy Butler's salary for LeBron's salary, which is a salary swap. That would work. You know, it's so hard to trade these superstars because you've got to make the salary work and the second apron and the 18th apron and all the stuff. But that would work for the warriors, wouldn't work for the Lakers. The Lakers are determined to have a clean cap sheet going forward because they don't want to find a player over 30 to pair with Luka Doncic. They want a super Superstar in his 20s to come pair with Luka Doncic. So they don't really tied to Jimmy Butler's contract, which is why they don't want to be tied to LeBron. That's why they have an extended LeBron is because they don't want to be tied to that kind of money going forward when they can possibly try to, you know, attract either a superstar who's unhappy somewhere or get a guy who's up, that is free agent.
- [39:10]
Mike Jones
Who.
- [39:11]
Rich Davis
Who are those highlights of on. I don't even recognize that guy. So skinny. Can you tell who. Who is 77 there?
- [39:16]
Jason McIntyre
Exactly.
- [39:17]
Rich Davis
Yeah, but in all seriousness, Rachel, I got to ask. So how do The Lakers get LeBron to Golden State without taking Butler? Can they reroute Butler somewhere and then bring in someone else?
- [39:33]
Jason McIntyre
I just don't think the Lakers are interested in making this trade. And by the way, they would like LeBron to play for them this year.
- [39:39]
Rich Davis
Yeah, you don't want to go move off LeBron.
- [39:41]
Jason McIntyre
This isn't all in May last year, right? I mean, that's what the funny thing about it is. There was a point in the summer where people talking about, well, LeBron wants to win. Now guess what? The Lakers might not be the favorite for the NBA title, but they are set up very well in a competitive West. You've got LeBron, who is still playing at an all NBA level. You've got Skinny Luka. Skinny could be one of the top two, three players in the NBA this season. You've got a supporting cast that again, not. Not elite, but certainly jumps out, is filling a lot of their needs. The Lakers would like to go with this roster going forward. The only frustration in LeBron camp is he is playing at an all NBA level and to play out the final year of his contract without an extension, it feels insulting. It also feels like if he wants to play more basketball, he should have the option to stay at home and play more basketball as opposed to the Lakers saying goodbye to him. So that's where some of the disconnect has come. It's not playing with Luca. He likes playing with Luca.
- [40:34]
Rich Davis
So do. Are you. I. I can't tell. If you sound like you think the Lakers should offer something beyond this year.
- [40:41]
Jason McIntyre
No, I don't. I mean, I mean, look, it's a tough spot. It's a tough spot to be in. And there's no road ahead that we can follow for this. Right? It's never happened before. No, LeBron is right. A guy playing at that level should always be offered a contract extension. Should not be sitting there hanging on the edge playing out his last year. But also a guy who's in his early 40s should not be offered contract extensions. That would tie up a team with a young superstar. So there's no Conventional wisdom that applies because there's never been a situation like this before. So we'll just have to see how they go forward.
- [41:12]
Rich Davis
I'm trying to think of the Brady exit from New England. Was that similar or was that more of him beefing with Belichick? Get me the hell out of here. I'm going to go to Tampa and win.
- [41:24]
Jason McIntyre
I don't see it as similar. Only because I think LeBron would like to stay with the Lakers. In LeBron's ideal world, in my opinion. Haven't had a heart to heart with him.
- [41:33]
Rich Davis
Have you spoken? I listen. You're plugged in.
- [41:36]
Covino
I don't know. Have you talked to LeBron?
- [41:37]
Jason McIntyre
But in my opinion, look, his family is here. He is very settled in Los Angeles. He likes playing for the Lakers. It's, you know, the showiest franchise in the NBA, and he is excited to play with Luka. This narrative that he's somehow jealous of Luka, it does not exist. He has liked Luka Doncic from the minute Luka got into the league. Luka has always said he patterned his entire game after LeBron. Luka is going to take off so much physical pressure on LeBron this season, but he wants to be treated with the respect he thinks he deserves and the salary that he obviously deserves. And they are just not sure they can commit to him for that.
- [42:14]
Rich Davis
Do you think this is why he's playing golf all summer and that's all he's talking about on Instagram? I mean, I follow him, obviously, yes.
- [42:20]
Jason McIntyre
I mean, look, it's nice to be distracted by something, right? I talked to Rich Paul at summer league and he said to me a couple times, he's like, I've told LeBron, like, don't pay attention to all of this, you know, podcast talk and radio talk and rumors and whatever. Do something else. Clear your head. So maybe LeBron took Rich Paul's advice.
- [42:35]
Rich Davis
I don't know. Yeah, listen, you know, I'm Team LeBron. You. I'm sure you covered some Michael Jordan back in the day.
- [42:43]
Jason McIntyre
I did.
- [42:43]
Rich Davis
Can I quickly ask you before we go to break, who your goat is in the NBA?
- [42:47]
Jason McIntyre
Different eras, man. I'm of the different eras argument. I'm sorry, I just. I don't think you can compare. Right. The game is so different. So different. These guys are so different.
- [42:58]
Rich Davis
Well, cop out.
- [42:58]
Jason McIntyre
You're trying to. Okay. Do you want to compare Michael Jordan to Bill Russell? Do that one for me.
- [43:04]
Rich Davis
Yeah, you're right, Russell. It was like 18 to the league. I think there was eight, maybe. But good stuff, Rachel. Rachel Nichols with the News. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by the Herd Lie News. Oh boy. I got some Detroit Lions fans. I'm buddies with them. They're really geeked about this season and I'm trying to tell them I think the super bowl window's closing. I'll tell you why. Next, Be sure to catch live editions.
- [43:27]
Covino
Of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern.
- [43:29]
Rich Davis
9Am Pacific this labor Day.
- [43:32]
Rachel Nichols
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Covino
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- [46:12]
Covino
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- [47:12]
Jason McIntyre
All right. Since the moment it was announced, you know, everyone's had this matchup circled. The Arch Manning era kicks off with a playoff rematch for the ages. Number one, Texas taking on defending national champion number three, Ohio State on big noon Saturday. Coverage begins official, of course, with big noon kickoff live from Columbus starts at 9am Eastern Saturday on Fox.
- [47:38]
Rich Davis
Cannot wait for that. We'll do a lot of college football leading up to the opening weekend. So many good games. Can't wait. However, I quickly wanted to tell a quick story. So in college, me and my buddies, you know, we were kind of negative. We would make fun of each other a lot. That's what dudes do, you know, you roll up to, to gather to pregame and go out and be like, oh, that shirt is so tired. Why didn't you get a haircut? We just make fun of each other. That's what guys do. And then this new guy joined our group and he was like, why are you guys so Negative. You need to be way more positive and hype each other up. So we started to build each other up. Oh, you're so money. I think it had a lot to do with the Swingers movie, Vince Vaughn and I want to bring that up because of the Detroit Lions. Dan Campbell took to the podium this week and he is irrationally excited. Almost like it's fake pump up, rah rah stuff. Take a listen to Dan Campbell about his excitement about his roster. Listen, Year five, this is the best we felt about it. Kind of top, the bottom.
- [48:41]
Covino
And now, that being said, there's still holes. But I bring this up all the time.
- [48:46]
Rich Davis
Every roster has holes.
- [48:48]
Covino
And you'll never have it exactly where.
- [48:50]
Rich Davis
You totally want it. But from where we've come year after year, this is.
- [48:54]
Covino
We've taken it another level.
- [48:57]
Rich Davis
I like that medium look from Dan Campbell. That's a. That's the money money look, Dan, let's see. He's talking a big game. But folks, some bad news. I think the super bowl windows closed. Remember, we've seen teams get close. My jets with Mark Sanchez, Shout Out Mark and Rex Ryan. Two AFC title games in a row. Everybody thinks, oh, we got something here. No playoff appearances since you go back to the Jim Kelly Bills. Four straight Super Bowls and they were in the wilderness for 20 years before Josh Allen showed up. Okay, it is hard and this Lions team is going to backslide. They ain't winning 15 games. I asked the staff to get the Lions schedule on the screen. Are you guys ready for this? The Detroit Lions have the toughest road schedule in the NFL on the road. These are the quarterbacks they have to face this season. Jordan Love, Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes, Baker Mayfield. That's before Halloween. They got to go to Jalen Hurts. They got to go to Matt Stafford. Guys, that is absolutely brutal. And oh, by the way, down two interior offensive linemen, one retired. They let Zeitler go. One of my boys who puts together a great NFL gambling write up said those two offensive linemen that were lost over the last three seasons were top five at their position. So that's a huge step back. They're starting a third round rookie, likely at center. And then the. Obviously the position coaches are huge. Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn. Those are massive losses. So the new OC, okay, he has not been an offensive coordinator since 2017. He was an OC and then didn't go well. Hasn't been an OC again until this year. Okay. Their new defensive coordinator was playing in the league in 2018, the highest he got as a coach coach before getting the defensive coordinator gig was a linebacker coach. Guys, this is going to be a big regression, okay? They had 14 indoor games last year down to 10 now. I'm not saying the Lions totally crumble. There's not a ton of cold weather games, although they go to Chicago in the final week of the season. But they do have to go to Philly and Washington. Could be cold weather games. We'll see. Likely no. October, November, I just, I don't see it. A list of the quarterbacks they have to face must terrify you. When you look at the defense guys, the depth chart for that defense is what's going on. You remember the movie Major League where they would be like they would every season is like who the bleep are these guys? Look at that Lions defense. And you're like she's we're cooked. We gotta stop these quarterbacks with these guys. Listen, I, I had them missing the playoffs and I think the super bowl windows closed. Now. Jared Goff obviously lives in my area. I'm rooting for you, Jared, but it's an uphill climb. Final hour coming up next year on a Monday on the Herd.
- [51:53]
Covino
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- [53:53]
Mike Jones
You got a hoodie on? Take it off.
- [53:55]
Covino
I'm Manny. I'm Noah, this is Devin and we're best friends and journalists with a new podcast called no Such Thing where we get to the bottom of questions like that.
- [54:04]
Mike Jones
Why are you screaming?
- [54:05]
Covino
I can't expect what to do now if the rule was the same, go off on me. I deserve it, you know, lock him up. Listen to no Such thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [54:17]
Rich Davis
No Such Thing.
- [54:20]
Jason McIntyre
This is an I Heart podcast.