THE HERD - Hour 3 - Defending Belichick

Summary

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The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode: THE HERD - Hour 3 - Defending Belichick
Date: January 29, 2026
Guests: Ian O’Connor (The Athletic), Ben Maller
Main Theme: A deep dive into the controversy surrounding Bill Belichick’s Hall of Fame snub, implications of Spygate, Hall voting politics, and NFL coaching legacies.

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Episode Overview

This hour focuses on the debate over Bill Belichick's exclusion from first-ballot induction into the NFL Hall of Fame, dissecting the impact of Spygate, sports media biases, Hall of Fame voting methodology, and coach/front office dynamics. Colin Cowherd is joined by acclaimed columnist Ian O’Connor to provide perspective, and later segments with Ben Maller explore media coverage and current NFL storylines.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Spygate and the Hall of Fame "Tax"

[00:46 – 05:58]

• Colin Cowherd questions the fairness of holding Spygate against Belichick, emphasizing how the NFL almost never takes away first- and third-round picks as punishment.
• Ian O’Connor insists Spygate merits discussion, but shouldn’t overshadow Belichick’s career post-2007:

  “Let’s take early in the 2007 season when it’s uncovered... If you go forward from that point on... He went to six Super Bowls. He won three of them. He went to nine AFC Championship Games and won 12 division titles.” [02:01]
  He adds:
  “Spygate should have been brought up... but I think it’s a five-minute discussion.” [02:55]

• Belichick’s Staggering Record: Both Cowherd and O’Connor agree Belichick’s coaching record is historic, even removing his first three Super Bowl wins.

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2. PEDs, Voting Logic, and Context with Other Sports

[03:10 – 04:09]

• O’Connor draws a parallel between how he voted for Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds for the Baseball Hall of Fame due to their overwhelming credentials despite PED suspicions:

  “When you completely overwhelm the transgression the way Belichick did, then I think, again, you are a no-brainer Hall of Famer and that should have been the case here…” [03:46]

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3. Historical Hall of Fame Precedents

[04:09 – 05:58]

• Cowherd notes that even legends like Bill Walsh, Vince Lombardi, and Don Shula waited for induction. Is making Belichick wait really unreasonable?
• O’Connor pushes back, arguing the current rules and Belichick’s achievements demand first-ballot induction. He critiques the Hall’s process for mixing coaches with senior candidates and proposes lowering the voting threshold to the baseball standard (75%).

  “There’s no good excuse for not voting for the greatest NFL coach of all time, no matter how you slice it.” [05:09]
  “That backlog is getting dangerous and it needs to be corrected.” [05:58]

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4. Eli Manning’s Hall of Fame Case

[06:29 – 07:56]

• Cowherd and O’Connor discuss Eli’s legacy: great playoff moments and two wins over Belichick & Brady, but only a .500 regular season.

  “Those performances... those throws down the stretch to beat the greatest coach-quarterback partnership... those are tiebreakers that go in his favor.” – Ian O’Connor [07:10]
  The backlog created by current voting rules is highlighted as a concern.

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5. Could Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers Reunite in Pittsburgh?

[07:56 – 10:15]

• Referencing O’Connor’s Rodgers biography, Cowherd asks about the plausibility of Rodgers and McCarthy working together.

  “Their relationship is better now than it ever was when they were together in Green Bay.” [08:47]
  “McCarthy loosened him up and made him a more athletic player… never gets any credit for that.”
  Rodgers might stay another year in Pittsburgh if McCarthy coaches; realistic team ceiling is “11-6 at best, winning a playoff game.”
  If Pittsburgh struggles (“3-6”), O’Connor expects pressure to play Will Howard. [09:49]

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6. Media and Voter Personality Conflicts

[10:15 – 12:46]

• Cowherd speculates Belichick’s poor relationship with the media may have cost him votes, comparing to Mariano Rivera’s 100% support and good-guy image.
  O’Connor disagrees, attributing Belichick’s snub to Spygate and voting logistics, not personality:

  “I really do not believe that was it. Part of it was... people wanted to punish him for one year because of Spygate...” [11:48]
  “Voting... a lot of people wanted to vote for the senior players instead of the coach and the contributor. And other people assume Belichick was getting in.” [11:56]

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7. Robert Kraft’s Alleged Influence on Hall Voting

[12:46 – 14:06 & 30:56 – 31:52]

• Cowherd brings up rumors Kraft “didn’t want to go in the same year as Belichick.”
  O’Connor says that while not a conspiracy, it’s “possible” Kraft lobbied voters:

  “I do know that Belichick would walk by Kraft in the hallway sometimes and not even say hi... I think it’s possible Kraft might have whispered to a couple of voters, and I do think he would love to get into the Hall of Fame ahead of Bill Belichick.” [13:21]
  Kraft’s own HoF case is compared to Jerry Jones.

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8. Hall of Fame Voting: Flaws and Fixes

[31:52 – 36:35]

• The process is critiqued as “political” and “inexact.” Cowherd expresses no outrage at Belichick’s first-ballot snub, referencing similar situations in all sports halls of fame.
• Sports writers are defended as being more “current” and informed than many ex-players or coaches who may not follow the entire sport.

  “I like people that vote to be dispassionate, informed, but dispassionate.” [33:15]

• Proposals: increase number of voters, rotate voting members, allow voting for all worthy candidates on the short-list.

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9. Current NFL Discussion: Patriots, Spygate Discourse, and Media Motivation

[18:22 – 22:36]

• Media attention is predicted to focus on Belichick/Spygate during Super Bowl week, especially toward Mike Vrabel, now Patriots coach and former Belichick player.

  “I think Vrabel would just shut that down. I mean... that would be unfair. I think as a media member... that's an unfair position to take.” – Cowherd [19:38]

• Maller says chasing viral moments drives tough questioning; Cowherd finds this opportunistic.

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10. NFL Front Office Moves and Coaching Dynamics

[22:36 – 25:16]

• Discussion of Falcons’ hiring process and QB questions posed to Kevin Stefanski—Cowherd supports direct questions about coaching roster plans (“That is a question I would have no problem asking…” [23:26]).
• The importance of coach-GM alignment and why some franchises struggle when that’s missing.

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11. Coach-Player Bonds: Emotional Sidebar

[26:21 – 29:14]

• Ben Maller and Colin debate public displays of emotion by new Buffalo Bills coach Joe Brady, who became emotional thanking players.

  “Thank you for allowing me to be myself. Playing for me and being you with us. I may be calling plays still, but I'm no longer the offensive coordinator.” – Joe Brady (quoted by hosts) [26:52]

• Cowherd defends coaches’ emotional attachment to players, referencing stories of Mike Tomlin’s positive influence.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Spygate’s Lasting Impact:

  “Spygate should have been brought up... but I think it’s a five-minute discussion.” – Ian O’Connor [02:55]

• On Belichick’s Resume Overwhelming Transgression:

  “When you completely overwhelm the transgression the way Belichick did... you are a no-brainer hall of Famer.” – Ian O’Connor [03:46]

• On Hall Voting Logic:

  “There’s no good excuse for not voting for the greatest NFL coach of all time, no matter how you slice it.” – Ian O’Connor [05:09]

• On Media Relations and Hall Voting:

  “Mariano [Rivera] was such a pleasure to deal with… it did matter to the voters.” – Colin Cowherd [10:24]
  “I really do not believe that was it.” – Ian O’Connor [11:48]

• On Kraft/Bill Dynamics:

  “I think it’s possible Kraft might have whispered to a couple of voters, and... would love to get into the hall of Fame ahead of Bill.” – Ian O’Connor [13:21]

• On NFL Hall Political Nature:

  “All hall of Fames... get political. It is, it’s inexact, it’s opinion.” – Colin Cowherd [31:52]

• On Emotional Connections:

  “Thank you for allowing me to be myself. Playing for me and being you with us...” – (Joe Brady, via Cowherd) [26:52]

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Important Timestamps

• Spygate’s Impact & Belichick’s Record: [02:01 – 03:10]
• PEDs and Voting Standards Comparison: [03:10 – 04:09]
• Debate on Voting Methodology: [05:09 – 05:58]
• Eli Manning Hall Debate: [06:29 – 07:56]
• Rodgers-McCarthy Steelers Speculation: [07:56 – 10:15]
• Personality vs. Performance in Voting: [10:24 – 12:46]
• Kraft’s Possible Voter Influence: [12:46 – 14:06] & [30:56 – 31:52]
• Hall of Fame Voting Politics: [31:52 – 36:35]
• Media’s Role in Spygate Discourse: [18:22 – 22:36]
• Front Office & Coaching Dynamics: [22:36 – 25:16]
• Emotional Coaching Moments: [26:21 – 29:14]

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Conclusion

This episode provides a nuanced look at the intersection of sports legacy, ethics, and politics in Hall of Fame voting, centering on Belichick’s case. O’Connor’s reporting and historical perspective offer clarity: Spygate warrants mention but not the degree of punishment leveraged through the Hall’s voting mechanisms. Colin and his guests also explore the human and structural factors that continue to shape how coaching legacies are remembered, all with the energetic, conversational style that defines The Herd.

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Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Ben Maller]

Guaranteed Human.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'm Colin Coward from the Herd. Whether you're a seasoned small business owner or thinking about getting started, you'll definitely want to check out season four of Mind the Business small business success stories from iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio and Inuit QuickBooks. In the latest season, hosts Austin Hanquitz and Jenise Torres are talking to self starters about the ins and outs of entrepreneurship and how QuickBooks helps you to get more done in less time. You don't want to miss it. Listen to Mind the Business Small business success Stories on the iHeart app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FS. Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Well, he's the author of six books. Five are New York Times best selling authors. Best selling books. He is now at the Athletic. He's been at the New York Post. To me is the most dependable columnist in America. Great reporter and a great writer and a friend. Ian o' Connor joining us now live. The article in the Athletic today, very comprehensive and it pointed to what I said about Spygate. I would have voted Bill in but I'm not going to hammer the people sports writers, whoever it is who said listen, Spygate, the NFL doesn't make Ian a regular habit of taking away first round picks and third round picks. There were two Spygates. They were worn for seven years. So how do you answer to the people that say yes, he's the best coach of all time but there has to be a tax on, on Spygate.

[Ian O'Connor]

I think it's a fair opinion. Colin. I would just say this. Let's, let's take early in the 2007 season when it's uncovered and he is found to have cheated and broken the rules and all that with Spygate. If you go forward from that point on. So I'm going to hand you back his first three super bowl championship trophies. Take them off the board, they're yours. Go from that point forward. He went to six Super Bowls. He won three of them. He went to nine AFC Championship Games and won 12 divisions division titles. I mean, so like I think Spygate should have been brought up in the discussion with the Voting committee without question. But I think it's a five minute discussion because if you just go forward from 2007 when he was caught early in week one, so he goes 18 and oh, maybe the best team in the history of American sports not to win a championship, then does what he does in big games going forward. He's a slam dunk hall of Famer even if you hand back the first three trophies. So that's how I would handle it. I think it is worthy of being discussed. But it should have been maybe a five minute part of the conversation and it was longer than that.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I mean, by the way, you have a baseball hall of Fame vote and there were PD situations. How did you view the PD stuff in baseball? As attacks.

[Ian O'Connor]

So just like I felt that Belichick's career completely overwhelmed Spygate. I feel like in the case of Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds, same thing. Seven time MVP with Bonds, seven time Cy Young winner in Clemens, the two most decorated players in the history of the bbwa, the organization I represent when I cast the ballot. So I voted for those two guys. They're two of the top eight players in the history of baseball by the measurement of war. And I didn't vote for the other PED guys because I felt they fell below that standard and should be penalized for their cheating. When you completely overwhelm the transgression the way Belichick did, then I think again, you are a no brainer hall of Famer and that should have been the case here instead of the biggest embarrassment in the history of the hall of Fame.

[Colin Cowherd]

All the. Yeah, this is good stuff. Okay, it is interesting is that, and I wouldn't hold this against him, but Jimmie Johnson, without Troy Aikman in his prime went to Miami with an old immobile Marino and actually had a higher winning percentage in Miami than he did in Dallas. Joe Gibbs won three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks. Parcells won two with Hostetler and Sims. And by the way, Bill Walsh and Vince Lombardi did not get in the first year of eligibility. Could I argue this with Belichick? Okay, Bill, listen. They just changed the methodology. If Shula had to wait five years and by the way got to the super bowl with David Woodley, Earl Morrell and Marino. I'm not putting you in first year. When I, when I. The accumulation of Spygate your record without Brady, everybody else waited. Is that a reasonable argument?

[Ian O'Connor]

I don't think so. Again, I think the record is so staggering with or without the cheating that he has to go in on the first ballot. It's not his fault. They changed the rules and they no longer have to wait five years and it's a one year deal and he's in front of you. I just. There's no good excuse for not voting for the greatest NFL coach of all time, no matter how you slice it. Now, listen, the hall of Fame needs to fix some things here. You can't have senior players competing against coaches and contributors in a category where you're only allowed to vote for three of the five guys. Why can't you vote for all five if you think they're worthy? If that were the case, Belichick would be in and you wouldn't have this embarrassment. And so that. The other thing, and this is a minor tweak, but it would help go from 80% down to 75%, which is the baseball standard.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[Ian O'Connor]

And I think if that had been in play here already, if those rules. And listen, Deion Sanders and other players complained in the past that it was too easy to get into the hall of Fame and that was the reason why they overcorrected. Now they got to overcorrect going back the other way because the backlog is such where guys like even Tom Coughlin and other coaches now have to probably wait another year because Belichick will go in next year. That backlog is getting dangerous and it needs to be corrected.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay. Eli Manning, second year, didn't get in. I would put him in probably second ballot. I wouldn't put him first ballot. I don't think you can tell the story of the league without Eli Manning. In fact, you can't. I do think it's not that he won two Super Bowls. I think it's so significant that he beat Belichick. The best coach Brady the best player. And there's an argument outside of the Bradshaw Lynn Swan catch, he had the two most memorable catches in super bowl history. I wouldn't put him in first ballot because he was kind of a middling regular season quarterback. I would have put him in on this ballot. Am I reaching there?

[Ian O'Connor]

No, I think that's right. I'm not sure he's a first ballot guy either. And he was a.500 quarterback in the regular season. He only won postseason games in the two years he won Super Bowls. But those performances, those throws down the stretch to beat the greatest coach quarterback partnership in the history of the league playing in New York with that last name following his brother. I do think those are tiebreakers that go in his favor. And yeah, is he a First ballot guy, probably not, but I would have put him in this year. And I think he will, I think he will eventually get in. But again that backlog with modern era players, it's going to get dicey. And the hall of Fame needs to ease the voting standards. The floor of the induction standards have to be changed and to allow some of these worthy players to get in.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, so you wrote another book. I read out of the Darkness, the Mystery of Aaron Rodgers. Fantastic read. So, and I want to you, you can take your time obviously on this is that I said I can see Mike McCarthy and Aaron saying let's just make it work. Let's sew this wound up. Let's just do it. I can also see the Steelers saying we drafted Will Howard. It's a great draft next year for quarterbacks. Aaron, we want to see if Will can play. We got to figure this out. We're going to give him 17 start. We don't want him sitting behind you. Either way I'd be comfortable with. Aaron has said publicly, Mike and I are good. Mike has said it publicly. You know as well as anybody what people say, you know, in front of the camera is not what they're saying behind it. Do you think McCarthy and Aaron could work for at least one year in Pittsburgh together?

[Ian O'Connor]

I do, I do. And I did speak with Both Aaron and McCarthy for my book. I did ask them that question and their relationship is better now than it ever was when they were together in Green Bay. And Rogers said to me, listen, we did butt heads from time to time even though I think it was more often than that. But at the end of the day we lit it up for a lot of years. And what people Forget is Mike McCarthy changed Aaron Rodgers entire style of play. When he got him out of Cal, he was very robotic. He had the ball back at his ear hole and McCarthy loosened him up and made him a more athletic player and really helped develop him into an all time great and never gets any credit for that. So listen, McCarthy's on record saying he wants him. Most of the Steelers players want him back, if not all of them. And so I think that Rodgers will play one more year because it is McCarthy. He might be the only coach that he would have stayed in Pittsburgh to play for. So what is the ceiling for this partnership? Probably 11 and 6 at best, winning a playoff game. So if you're a Steelers fan, you're saying, well, we can't win the super bowl with this partnership but we can have a productive season. I will say if they're three and six. I think there needs to be a discussion about maybe even in advance, though. You don't want to deal in negative hypotheticals. But then will Howard has to be in play. If the season is getting away from McCarthy and Rogers, then I think they have to turn to the young quarterback.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, yesterday, a lot of fans listen, people don't trust the media. They don't like us. They trust you, but they don't like.

[Ian O'Connor]

No, they don't like me either.

[Colin Cowherd]

So that's all right. So I said this yesterday. I said the only baseball player to ever get in, I believe, with 100% of the votes is Mariano Rivera. He's not doing it on innings pitched. He's doing it on excellence. And he was maybe the most humble, graceful, gracious athlete. You know, he's in that Koufax where you can't find a bad word about him. And I mean, Hank Aaron, Ken Griffey, I mean, there's just all these great players. You're like, they didn't get 100% of the vote. And so my take is Mariano was such a pleasure to deal with that it did matter to the voters, is that they liked him. And people yesterday said, well, you guys didn't like Belichick. And my take is, listen, it's not that Bill didn't ignore the media. He was obnoxious. Again, it shouldn't count. But I think Bill needed a tad bit of awareness for the last 15 years in New England, knowing those are the guys voting for you, what do you make of the assertion that people just had it out for Bill because he wasn't. He wasn't. You know, he was. He was overly harsh, blunt and dismissive of the media.

[Ian O'Connor]

And by the way, Colin, did you know that 11 voters did not vote for Babe Ruth on the first ballot?

[Colin Cowherd]

I read that yesterday. I read that.

[Ian O'Connor]

So you can't please everybody. I guess I would say that had nothing to do with it. With Belichick. I talked to a number of voters and just my own experience with the guy, and I understand he was difficult to deal with at times from a media perspective, but I really do not believe that was it. Part of it was, hey, some people wanted to punish him for one year because of Spygate and maybe a little bit of Deflategate. I think voting. A lot of people wanted to vote for the senior players instead of the coach and the contributor. And other people assume Belichick was getting in. Well, he doesn't need my vote, so I'm going to reserve my votes. For other candidates, there was a lot of that. I think Spygate probably cost him three or four votes out of the 11 or 12. But that cost them induction. Right. And that's where we go back to whether or not you believe a one year penalty was warranted. And in my opinion, it wasn't simply because the winning was so staggering that it just knocked Spygate out of the park.

[Colin Cowherd]

One final question, Ian o' Connor at the Athletic. For our radio audience, it has been suggested, and you would know this, that Robert Kraft didn't want to go in the same year as Belichick. He didn't want to be. And they don't. They don't see eye to eye. There was a documentary done that did feel like Belichick. It felt like Kraft wanted to lean in a little bit on Belichick. I think that's reasonable. What about that assertion? I don't think it's a conspiracy theory. I don't think it rises to that. I think it's a reasonable discussion that Kraft squeezed some people.

[Ian O'Connor]

Yeah, I guess it's possible. I do know that Belichick would walk by Kraft in the hallway sometimes and not even say hi to him. And at the end of the day, Kraft deserves a lot of credit for keeping that group together. For Brady and Belichick, obviously at odds at times, it was really more like Brady and Kraft vs. Belichick than anything else, but they made it work over time. They deserve a lot of credit for that. I think it's possible Kraft might have whispered to a couple of voters, and I do think that he would love to get into the hall of Fame ahead of Bill Belichick. He's been waiting long enough. By the way, Kraft has gone to 11 Super Bowls since Jerry Jones has appeared in one, and Jones is in the hall of Fame. Kraft isn't. So maybe that gets rectified now. We'll see. But yeah, he would love to get in ahead of Bill, without question.

[Colin Cowherd]

Ian, it's great to see you. Good luck to you and the fam and love your work at the Athletic. Congrats on all your success.

[Ian O'Connor]

You're the best, Colin. Thanks.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right. Very comprehensive. If there's ever a big story, that's the one of the two or three people I go to. Ian o'. Connor. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the iHeartRadio app.

[Ben Maller (promo segment)]

Hey, it's Ben, host of the Fifth Hour with Ben Maller. Would mean a lot to have you join us on our weekly auditory journey. You're asking, what in God's name is the fifth hour?

[Ian O'Connor]

I'll tell you.

[Ben Maller (promo segment)]

It's a spin off of the Ben Mather Show, a cult hit overnights on fsr. Why should you listen? Picture if you will, a world where we chat with captains of industry in media, sports and more every week. Explore some amazing facts about human nature and more. Listen to the fifth hour with Ben Mah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'm Colin Coward from the Herd. Whether you're a seasoned small business owner or thinking about getting started, you'll definitely want to check out season four of Mind the Business Small Business Success Stories for My Heart Media's Ruby Studio and Inuit QuickBooks. Mind the business is part entertainment, part instruction manual, part inspiration. Each episode features practical tips and success stories that will resonate with entrepreneurs in any industry. In their latest season, hosts Austin Henkowitz and Janie Torres are covering topics on the forefront of running a small business. They're talking to self starters about everything from how AI helps them work smarter to weathering market uncertainties and enjoying the benefits of being your own boss. And using Inuit QuickBooks to help you get more done in less time. You won't want to miss it. Listen to Mind the Business Small business success Stories on the iHeart app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, two Truths and a Lie. Here we go. I went to college with college football coach Jim McElwaine. I began my broadcasting career doing play by play for the Las Vegas Stars, and I've been a Verizon customer for 15 years. Okay, I lied. All three are true. Verizon isn't as expensive as you think. In fact, if you bring in your AT&T or T mobile bill to a Verizon store, they'll give you a better deal. That's right, a better deal on the best network with the most ways to save on plans, streaming and phone deals. So take that AT and T or T Mobile. Build your local Verizon store today, get a better deal and start saving based on root metrics. Best overall Mobile Network Performance US Second Half 2025 all rights reserve must provide recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply. That's. That's it. Yeah, the craft thing there was that documentary. What was that done by? Who did that documentary? Did Apple do that? All right, it wasn't Gotham Chopra. It was. It was Apple. Okay. It was Apple. All right. Because there was that documentary done, and I know a lot of Patriot fans thought it was very heavy handed. They thought it was very much beating up on Bill. And I watched it and I thought it did favor craft. I don't think I. I took it to that level. It. Listen, when you're difficult, you know, I've used the argument of Bobby Knight. When you're just difficult and rough and curt and dismissive, you're going to wear some people out. I mean, it's. That's just life. That's the way it is. It was Apple. Let's see. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Produced by Brian Grazer. Okay, thanks, guys. And Ron Howard. Okay, there it was. There's. There's so many documentaries out there on dynasties, I lose count. But yeah, people felt that it was a little heavy handed. Robert Kraft had his way in the documentary. It did feel like it was. It was definitely pro Robert Kraft, who, I mean, 11 Super Bowls for four franchises have never been to one. J. Mac with the news. No, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herd line news.

[Ben Maller]

Imagine that, a billionaire having his thumb on the scale. I mean, who could have seen that coming?

[Ian O'Connor]

I mean, geez.

[Ben Maller]

Anyways, let's go to the Patriots and Mike Vrabel. They are in the Super Bowl. Very exciting times for Vrabel, who, by the way, played for Bill Belichick for eight seasons in New England. So during media availability, Vrabel was asked about his former coach not getting to the hall of Fame. So Vrabel actually said, I'm sure Bill will get in. That's something well out of my control. Bottom line is I'm sure that Bill will get into Canton. Now here's what's interesting, Colin. I don't think this story is going to die down here in the next six days, five days. So we're going to be then going into super bowl week and the Patriots are going to be getting grilled, specifically Rabel, about Belichick Craft hall of Fame. I just wonder if this becomes something of a distraction. Hey, Vrabel. So about Spygate.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, he'll shut it down immediately. Twenty years ago, he'll shut it down immediately.

[Ben Maller]

But you think the media is gonna stop? This is why. You know how the media works, Colin. They go for what clicks. And nobody's clicking about Milton Williams. As good of a story as that is, they're clicking on Vrabel said about Spygate and cheating and Belichick and Hall of Fame. So you could tell that's where the story is going to head next week. I don't think this is going away.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think Vrabel would just shut that down. I mean, like, I. I'm in the media. I think, in my opinion that would be unfair. I think as a media member, if I went to that media day, that's an unfair position to take. I'm going to go ask new Patriot coach Mike Vrabel about Bill Belichick's hall of Fame. I think that's an unfair question. I don't think all questions are equal. We're talking about the Super Bowl. I mean, why would I.

[Ben Maller]

With the Patriots. And Vrabel played for Belichick for eight seasons, including the Spygate title.

[Colin Cowherd]

Rabel doesn't vote on the hall of Fame. He's not part of it.

[Ben Maller]

He was part of the team that was embroiled in Spygate.

[Colin Cowherd]

And by the way, they were fined and they lost draft picks. There's a resolution to it and now.

[Ben Maller]

It'S come back up because of hall of Fame.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, this week it did.

[Ben Maller]

And you think that's unfair now? That is an interesting time.

[Colin Cowherd]

I wouldn't. I'm just telling you, I have asked hard questions before. I will again. I don't think that's fair. That doesn't. That feels like media trying to be the story. I'm going to ask Brable about. About. About Spygate. That's not. We're in a Super bowl week.

[Ben Maller]

They asked him today. Like, they're definitely going to ask him next week.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's not super bowl week. Ask a Super bowl week is like. It's just. To me, it's just a different week. That's not to say it has to be all celebratory, but it's like, game. The World Series is really a celebration of the greatness of baseball. That. That. I mean, I could ask questions all throughout the season. Once you get to a World Series, if there's not an impending decision made that's controversial, I'm not going to drudge stuff up. That's my take on being a media member. There's a time and a place to ask uncomfortable questions, and I don't think at the media scrum, hey, what do you make. You were on those teams. Did you know it? What. I don't think it just. I mean, I'm sure every journalist in America is listening and thinks I'm off my rocker.

[Ben Maller]

So you.

[Colin Cowherd]

You.

[Ben Maller]

I do think they think that because I'm sitting here like, wow, that's quite a take. So you know, we got a show here. You've had this show for a long time. I joined.

[Colin Cowherd]

We're good.

[Ben Maller]

We don't need to worry about clicks and all that stuff. We're thriving. There's a lot of other people out there in the media who are looking to go viral. You know that. They need the headlines, they need the clicks. They've got to push the envelope.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's fine. I mean I again, I. And lawyers need put billboards up to get clients. You know, I mean like it is what it is. I'm not blaming other media people. I'm just saying I would be uncomfortable going up and asking about Spygate, which there was resolution, suspension, draft picks. That's not Brable's team. Vrabel's a player.

[Ben Maller]

Wait, technically Belichick was not suspended, which gives people. Which really earns.

[Colin Cowherd]

He was fine. And they lost. There were two Spy gates. He lost a first round pick and I think a third.

[Ben Maller]

Right, that.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's fun.

[Ben Maller]

I wonder if we'll talk about it next week here on the show. Let's go to the Atlanta Falcons. You have stolen the Titans as a team of destiny. So I guess I got to settle for the Falcons. And Stefanski. How about this, Colin? The media in Atlanta asked him, hey, what's up with quarterback? You going to go with Pennix? Is it going to be Cousins? Here we go. Stefanski on the mic.

[Kevin Stefanski]

We have to hire a general manager first before I can give you a great answer there. Once we do that, I'll sit with the general manager, sit with Matt Ryan. We'll put our heads together on all roster decisions. Obviously, Michael's a young player that I think very highly of. He is rehabbing off of his injury. He's doing great. He's doing everything that he's supposed to be doing. And then Kirk, obviously a relationship there. He's somebody that I think very highly of on and off the field. But all those type of decisions will come once we have a general manager.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I think again, that's a. That's a reasonable question. You're the new coach. They're asking you about your quarterback situation. That is a question I would have no problem asking even though I know his answer is going to be exactly what he said. That's a fair question to ask. It's his team. It's timely, it's in the moment. It's about personnel. He will coach. That's a fair question.

[Ben Maller]

So interestingly, I totally forgot they hadn't even hired a gm. Colin, you know that's not Usually, the path, you hire the gm, who then hires the coach. Yeah, you go coach before gm, and is the GM a figurehead? Maybe that's why they're struggling to fill the role. Everybody knows Stefanski has the power, and Matt Ryan is now a power player.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, I also think Stefanski was a. In this instance, I defend Atlanta because Stefanski was an excellent candidate. And if you sit around and, you know, you screw around, all of a sudden Stefanski's in Tennessee and you're getting the seventh best candidate. So I think when it comes to the top two candidates, I got to get that guy in house. Stefan, by the way, most head coaches don't want. I mean, Belichick did. Pete Carroll at the end did. They wanted to have some say in personnel. I think Sean Payton does. There's a lot of these. Andy Reid doesn't want any. Andy Reid's like, you draft. Not every coach wants their imprint. I mean, a coach and a gm, generally, I mean, they're like. They're like friends. They get along, they're allies, they travel together, they talk together, they lunch together. You're basically, hey, I mean, Kevin Stefanski is going to tell him, listen, we got three needs on this team. This is what I see offensively. We need a right guard. We need a defensive end. They usually agree. Very rarely do you get butting heads. Your problem is when the owner wants say in personnel, that can be your problem.

[Ben Maller]

That's terrible. But if, you know, if you don't have a coach and GM on the same page, you get the Buffalo disaster that unraveled the season with McDermott taking pot shots at the roster and then being cozying up to the owner and getting him fired.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, I don't.

[Ben Maller]

You saw that in Miami.

[Colin Cowherd]

I don't think McDermott took pot shots.

[Ben Maller]

No, no, he did. The Athletic wrote about it.

[Colin Cowherd]

He didn't take a potshot. He sat down in a room and said, I don't know if we have the personnel to win a Super Bowl. That's not a potshot. That's a disclosure and an opinion. He didn't go. A pot shot's going on the local afternoon radio show and saying, we got bums all over the defense. McDermott's like, hey, guys, in that. For the record, that was a private conversation that leaked. I'm. I'm angrier at the leak than I am McDermott sitting down like a. Like a. Like I'm alpha and going, guys, Terry, you know, I don't have a problem with you discussing with your bosses. If I went to a boss and said, I want a private conversation. If it ended up in the Athletic or the LA Times the next day, I'm mad at my boss. You shouldn't be mad at me for having a grown up conversation.

[Ben Maller]

The blame game is always fun. Let's go to the final story, and that is Joe Brady, the new Buffalo Bills head coach. He got really emotional talking about his players. Colin, I don't know what it is with coaches crying, but here's another one.

[Colin Cowherd]

Lastly, our players.

[Ian O'Connor]

My guys, I'm so appreciative of you guys being here today.

[Colin Cowherd]

Thank you for allowing me to be myself. Playing for me and being you with us. I may be calling plays still, but I'm no longer the offensive coordinator. Max. Well, I mean, you want me to root against that guy? I mean, come on.

[Ben Maller]

Come on. Soft, he said, come on. You cry at the birth of your kid. Maybe when you're getting married, something exciting, something sad.

[Colin Cowherd]

Parents are at the press conference. What do you say?

[Ben Maller]

McCarthy's a little different. He's coming home. Joe Brady's 36 years old. Did you cry in your 30s at all outside of like a death or a birth?

[Colin Cowherd]

Come on, dude, I cry 25 times a year.

[Ben Maller]

I've never seen you cry. And we've become friendly over the years.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'm telling you right now, if the pasta comes in cold, I'll cry at a restaurant. J Mac with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by the herd lie news. So you know, JMac, they're called emotions. You know, you may want to share them occasionally. It's okay if you, you know, it's. I mean, listen, I'm not going to cry over getting a parking ticket, but.

[Ben Maller]

He said, my guys, thanks for showing up. And he got showed up.

[Colin Cowherd]

He loves his players. These coaches, software. You spend your whole. You literally spend 17 hours a day at the facility. These players are getting beat up and injured for you. I mean, I think being a. You hear Harbaugh talk about how he loves the players. I think these coaches, I think the bond between, I don't know about the NBA and baseball, the bond between football coaches and football players for a lot of these guys is, I mean, when you, you hear. I was reading a story the other day about Mike Tomlin and about how many players were like, like Mike changed my life. I mean, remember we had. Was it Emmanuel Sanders came on our show.

[Ian O'Connor]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

And Emmanuel's like, he sat me down like man to man and said, here's what you do with the money. And here's what you don't do. And it's like Mike Tomlin changed people's lives.

[Ben Maller]

Mike Tomlin, come on, man. This Joe Brady, maybe he's going to.

[Colin Cowherd]

Have that kind of relationship with his players.

[Ben Maller]

No way. I'll give you two job buy you two jet skis if he becomes a Mike Tomlin type coach.

[Colin Cowherd]

Come on, get out of Mike Tomlin. It's a top rung of top 5% of coaches of all.

[Ben Maller]

Admit it. We're going to go to commercial break and you're going to laugh about Joe Brady with those guys.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'm very emotional right now. I don't know if I can get through the segment. It's the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. Super bowl week. We'll have Fred Warner, Aiden Hutchison of The Lions, Christian McAffrey, my buddy Max Crosby. Boy, losing Fred Warner for the Niners. Probably the best linebacker in football right now. Tough for San Francisco. Ian o' Connor of the Athletic, great columnist, sports columnist for decades in this country. He didn't think, despite Spygate, he did not believe that Spygate or Spygate 2 should have kept Belichick out of the hall of Fame.

[Ian O'Connor]

Spygate should have been brought up in the discussion with the voting committee without question. But I think it's a five minute discussion because if you just go forward from 2007 when he was caught early in week one, so he goes 18 0, maybe the best team in the history of American sports not to win a championship, and then does what he does in big games going forward, he's a slam dunk hall of Famer. Even if you hand back the first.

[Colin Cowherd]

Three trophies, it's certainly worth pause and discussion. That's, that's a good argument. I would mention there was also Spygate too. So didn't stick. There were seven years, three letters stopped doing it. He didn't. And then there was a Spygate too. So Ian also talked about many assume that Robert Kraft doesn't want to go into the hall of Fame at the same time as Bill. He didn't like the way he was treated by Bill. Dismissive. And he owned the Patriots, made Bill the richest coach in the NFL. And I asked Ian about Kraft's influence of maybe pinching a few people, putting a thumb on a few of the voters or having influence in Bill Belichick getting snubbed in his first year of eligibility.

[Ian O'Connor]

It was really more like Brady and Kraft vs. Belichick than anything else. But they made it work over time. They deserve a lot of credit for that. I think it's possible Kraft might have whispered to a couple of voters and I do think that he would love to get into the hall of Fame ahead of Bill Belichick. He's been waiting long enough. By the way, Kraft has gone to 11 Super Bowls since Jerry Jones has appeared in one and Jones is in the hall of Fame and Kraft isn't. So maybe that gets rectified now. We'll see. But yeah, he would love to get in ahead of Bill. Without question.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen, all hall of Fames, all of them. I mean, somebody wrote a column yesterday from the Kansas City Star and said, listen, I voted for Kenny Anderson over Bill Belichick. I watched Kenny Anderson, I watched, I remember, I know exactly what Kenny Anderson looked like. Number 14, Bengals quarterback, did a good job. Good quarterback, very accurate. You shouldn't vote Kenny Anderson at any point over Belichick. If you're given a choice, you know that, that, that's my opinion. And Kenny Anderson certainly worthy of consideration. So is L.C. greenwood, Roger Craig. But you know, all hall of Fames, it doesn't matter if it's the Rock and Roll hall of Fame or the radio hall of Fame or the baseball or the football hall of Fame, they get political. It is, it's inexact, it's opinion, you know, so like yesterday I wasn't shocked, I wasn't outraged. This is not a Pete Rose situation. He will get in, he'll probably get in next year. Eli Manning is probably not a first ballot guy. If you're going to put, you know, if you're going to put the all time greats like a Peyton Manning will be a first ballot guy, then, then Eli's got to be a second ballot guy. It's not just about Super Bowls and they were iconic for him, but he was pretty average regular season guy. But I think I'm not real precious about any of this stuff about the media, about hall of Fames, about sports. You know, there's all sorts of stuff. You know, there's a few sports like golf, you know, don't kick a golf ball, don't screw the rules. Everybody's, everybody's. I mean, don't go Houston Astros, but you know, people been stealing signals forever in the NFL and in baseball and I, I think sometimes, you know, I didn't want to yesterday get too precious, but I, but I, I'm also not going to beat up on guys because I don't believe that. Well, media shouldn't vote on anything Well, I mean, nobody holds grudges like ex players and coaches. I mean, people say Bill Polian's holding a grudge. We know Belichick still holding a grudge on Robert Kraft. So everybody that votes on this stuff could be a sports writer. Well, you didn't play the game well, hell, half the time you'll ask these players about overtime rules and they don't even understand that. And they do play the game. So I like people that vote to be dispassionate, informed, but dispassionate. So I don't have a problem with some media voting on it. I don't believe in all everything or nothing. It's. I think we can have a couple sports writers, a couple broadcasters. I mean, I think Vin Scully had the right to vote on the hall of Fame. If he had a vote. He knows the sport. It doesn't matter that he didn't play because a lot of guys who are players don't pay attention to anybody else but their team or themselves. They don't really have a broad holistic view of the sport. I mean, they just don't. They. I'm a shortstop for the Orioles. That's what I do. You know, I, I don't care about the sport. I don't want your opinion on a Dodger second baseman. I mean, yeah, a lot of, I remember, you know, like football coaches when they used to vote on the AP top 20 and Steve Spurrier I think once talked about this. He's like, I don't watch any of the games. I hand it to my sports information director. So there's your coach voting. How in the world is Kirby smart when he's coaching the bulldogs in a 3 o' clock start watching the early in the late games? He's not. He hands it to his sports information director. You know who is watching? Media guys. Yeah, right. So the idea that media people are all evil, I mean Ian o' Connor is about as informed as anybody when it comes he's got a baseball hall of Fame vote. And I was always like, let the cheaters hit in baseball because you didn't know who was cheating. You know, you could make the same argument for football. Jim Harbaugh got a 14 year ban in college football. I think that's over the top. Yeah.

[Ben Maller]

Colin, let me ask you something real quick about this Casey Star column, right? I read that thing too. And he basically said, I'm voting these guys in because they waited a long time and they're old and they deserve to be in. Belichick will eventually get in. That was the gist of it, yeah. Colin, isn't that like the dumbest logic you've ever heard? Just remove the emotion. Who deserves to be in the hall of Fame? Ken Anderson, Roger Craig, or Bill Belichick?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, Belichick.

[Ben Maller]

It's a no brainer. Just vote. Be smart. Why do these guys twist themselves into place?

[Colin Cowherd]

You're blaming these old guys. They just blaming. You're blaming the writer. I would blame. First of all, there's not enough football hall of fame voters. There's like 50. 50 in the history. 50 voters, that's it. You should have 150 and you should rotate some. You should have like, you can vote for eight years, then bring in some new people.

[Ben Maller]

Well, that's not bad.

[Colin Cowherd]

I mean, you want your coach to be current, your quarterback to be current. I want my voters to be current. So I, you know, the methodology is weird. You can only vot on three of five. Yeah, five of five.

[Ben Maller]

This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.