THE HERD - Hour 3 - How NIL has changed college football, the pressures of coaching at Texas, Mack Brown

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode: Hour 3 – How NIL Has Changed College Football, the Pressures of Coaching at Texas, Mack Brown
Date: August 20, 2025
Host: Colin Cowherd
Key Guest: Mack Brown (Former Texas and UNC Head Coach)

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Overview: Main Theme & Purpose

This episode dives deep into the intersection of college football's rapidly changing landscape—particularly Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) regulations—with head coaching challenges, elite quarterback pressure, and legacy programs like Texas. Colin Cowherd hosts Mack Brown for a candid discussion about the realities of major college football today, the impact of NIL, the evolving role of coaches, and the unique pressures at iconic programs. The show also covers insights on elite prospects like Arch Manning and Drake Maye, and parses the future of Bill Belichick at UNC as college athletics continues to professionalize.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Pressure and Complexity of Coaching at Texas

Timestamps: 03:14–05:33

• Job Prestige and Unique Pressure:
  Colin asks Mack if he envies or pities Steve Sarkisian, considering Texas’ combination of resources and drama.

  • Cowherd: “People think it’s the best job, but there’s drama, boosters, the Longhorn Network… It’s not just a football town—it’s a music, food, business town too.” (03:21)

• Mack’s Perspective:

  • “You got people that are passionate and they care… you’ve got to take their passion and it’s really pride, not pressure.” (04:33, Mack Brown)
  • Recalls being told, “Coach, you don’t have a budget. You can do whatever you want.” (05:09, Brown)
  • Explains that winning makes administrative jobs easy, but “when you’re losing, I don’t have a job.” (05:27, Brown)

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The Arch Manning Factor: Expectation & Legacy Pressure

Timestamps: 05:33–07:41; 34:49–36:02

• Managing Celebrity and Legacy:
  Cowherd raises concerns about the pressure on Arch Manning as Manning family expectations and Texas’s spotlight converge.

  • Cowherd: “Would you be worried about the burden, the expectation, the celebrity… Manning name, Texas program?” (05:33)

• Mack’s View:

  • “You have less worries because Archie Manning’s the granddad... This family handles it... They got class, they got charisma, they got confidence.” (06:10, Brown)
  • “Arch is really into the guys. He’s into that locker room, and that’s what’s so critical for a quarterback.” (06:53, Brown)
  • “People miss on Arch... Arch can run, and that will give him a chance.” (07:20, Brown)

• On Arch's Personality and Readiness:

  • “He’s smart, he’s self-deprecating, he’ll laugh... He’ll talk about people that have said critical things of him and say, yeah, I understand that. Just, I haven’t played a lot yet.” (35:42, Brown)

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NIL’s Impact: College Football Now Mirrors the NFL

Timestamps: 07:41–09:44; 11:11–13:21; 36:02–37:40

• Belichick at UNC: NFL Culture Comes to Campus:

  • Cowherd: “The NIL is almost professional football... It gives him a chance.” (07:52)
  • Brown: “We no longer have amateurism. We have payment scales. We’ve got NIL. Kids are asking for money. They have agents. There’s negotiations.” (08:51)

• Coach’s Adaptability and Challenges:

  • “The fact that we are much more like the NFL than ever before will really help Bill with this transition.” (09:17)
  • 72 new players added—accelerated roster churn possible through NIL/Portal. “You got money, you can evaluate and you can bring in who you want. I think he has a chance to win big and win big fast.” (09:33)

• Chemistry and Program Building:

  • Cowherd worries NIL erodes chemistry: “I like to know what I know about my guys... recruiting since they were high school sophomores. What does NIL do to a locker room?” (11:11)
  • Brown: “The major programs... with the majority of the money, it’s going to ruin the competitive balance. We’re going to have the same 15 playing at the end.” (11:47)
  • “If you’ve got money and you buy a team, it doesn’t mean you’re going to win. Number one, you got to buy the right ones. Number two, they’ve all got to fit well in that locker room… Number three, they’ve got to be unselfish.” (12:30)
  • Reminisces about the lost sense of loyalty in the modern game: “Cedric Benson... cried after his last game because he didn’t want to take his uniform off… I’m not sure we’re going to have that loyalty at schools that are bringing in all the transfers.” (13:11)

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Elite Quarterbacks: Evaluation and Development

Timestamps: 09:44–11:11; 17:58–19:31

• Cade Klubnik, Clemson:

  • Cowherd notes Klubnik’s mobility and growth: “He moves like Arch Manning. He can move a little... 4.65, he can run.” (09:59)
  • Brown on Klubnik: “First time he was good, but okay; maybe a little cautious. Last year... he got really confident.” (10:36)

• Drake Maye, North Carolina/Patriots:

  • Cowherd: “One thing I like about Drake Maye—he comes from a family of athletes and older brothers... Did you notice that with Drake?” (17:58)
  • Brown: “He said when he was a kid he had to fight for food. He had all those brothers... He’s so competitive... I just love him. I. I think he’s a quarterback that’s going to win a Super Bowl.” (18:44)

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The Personal Side: Coaching Life, Retirement, and Golf

Timestamps: 19:31–21:45

• Transition out of Coaching:

  • Mack shares joy in retired life, especially newfound freedom playing golf.
  • “I’m playing just about every day. I just love it.” (20:14, Brown)
  • Recalls the difference between always playing with boosters and now simply enjoying the game.

• Memorable Golf Anecdote:

  • Brown, humorously quoting a friend: “Golf… costs a lot of money. It takes all day... You hit a lot of bad shots, and it makes you absolutely miserable. And as soon as you get through, you can’t wait to get back on the course.” (21:01)
  • Cowherd (laughing): “It checks every bad box. And when you get home, your wife’s mad. ‘Did you have fun?’ ‘No, it was awful.’” (21:37)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Texas job pressure and resourcefulness:

  • “Coach, you don’t have a budget. You can do whatever you want.” (Mack Brown, 05:09)

• On NIL and the professionalization of college football:

  • “We no longer have amateurism. We have payment scales. We’ve got NIL. Kids are asking for money. They have agents.” (Mack Brown, 08:51)

• On locker room loyalty and culture lost with the transfer portal era:

  • “I saw Cedric Benson in a locker room after we beat Michigan in the Rose Bowl sit there crying because he didn’t want to take his uniform off... I’m not sure we’re going to have that loyalty at schools that are bringing in all the transfers now.” (Mack Brown, 13:11)

• On what golf teaches about life and retirement:

  • “It makes you absolutely miserable. And as soon as you get through, you can’t wait to get back on the course.” (Mack Brown’s friend, 21:01)

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Additional Segments of Note

• NFL and College Crossovers:

  • Speculation on Bill Belichick's adaptation to UNC and the NCAA, and how NIL "saves" NFL minds in the college game.
  • Debate about the “right way” to build a roster in the NIL era—buying talent vs. developing high school recruits.

• Quarterback Prospect Deep Dives:

  • Klubnik’s development at Clemson, Arch Manning’s readiness at Texas, and the NFL potential of Drake Maye.

• Chemistry vs. Talent in the Modern Era:

  • Cowherd and Brown agree building a culture matters, and NIL inevitably challenges that in ways unique to this era.

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Conclusion

This episode presents a rich, candid dialogue about the new era of college football, where NIL, deep-pocketed boosters, and professional-level transactions have fundamentally changed the sport's landscape. Mack Brown provides wisdom on managing elite expectations, building culture amid chaos, and the softer landing after a life in coaching—peppered with humor and honest assessments of where the college game is headed.

For listeners interested in the intersection of tradition and disruption, the future of iconic programs, and the real stories behind the headlines, this is an essential listen.

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Quick Reference Timestamps

• Texas job, Sark pressure: 03:14–05:33
• Arch Manning, legacy QBs: 05:33–07:41; 34:49–36:02
• Belichick & NIL at UNC: 07:41–09:44; 36:02–37:40
• NIL & Chemistry: 11:11–13:21
• Klubnik/Drake Maye: 09:44–11:11; 17:58–19:31
• Retirement/Golf wisdom: 19:31–21:45

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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Well, I've been looking forward to this all day. Mack Brown, the national champion head coach with Texas. I mean, he knows, he knows where all the skeletons are buried in this sport. And there's a lot of change. And I always thought Mack had the ability to teach and coach in a joyful way. He loved what he did when he returned to Carolina. The players loved him. But sometimes it's just time to, to move to the hill country in Austin, Texas and enjoy life a little bit. Mack Brown is now joining us live. Coach, you know, I was thinking about this, everybody, and I've said this before. I, I think I said years ago, the best job in football in America is coaching the Texas Longhorns. And I said that and a coach texted me and he goes, listen, it's a good job. He goes, but there's a lot of drama. There's a lot of boosters, there's a lot of stuff. The Longhorn Network. And I love Sark. I, I really do love Sark, but I think it's one of those jobs. Coach, it's a little harder than people think. You know, in Alabama, football runs everything, but at Texas, it's a music town, it's a food town. It's a. When you watch Sark coach, do you envy him or do you understand sometimes what he's going through?

[Mack Brown]

I think it's a great question, Colin, but I really think it's both ways. I love the University of Texas. I think it is the best job in the country and especially within aisle because you've got chance because you got people that are passionate and they care and the only way you can manage it, you got to take their passion and it's really pride and it's not pressure and they want to win so badly and you've got to be able to handle all the outside noise. And Sark's coached at Washington, he's coached at usc. So he, he's done all this, he's been there, done that. I really like him and I respect him and he's doing a tremendous job. But after you coach at Texas, it's really tough because you really got everything you need. When I first got there, I asked the lost, I said, I'd like to buy this. Does it fit in our budget? And he said, coach, you don't have a budget. You can do whatever you want. I said, we don't have a budget. And he said, no, man, you go through it. And I asked the loss one time as our athletics director, how hard is your job? And he said, when you're winning, mine's easy. When you're losing, I don't have a.

[Colin Cowherd]

Job that's so good. They have Arch Manning, and the Manning family is classy, smart. I mean, Arch Manning could have transferred. Not interested. Supported Quinn Ewers. I, I, maybe I'm worrying about something that doesn't matter. Tim Tebow became like a celebrity quarterback, Cam Newton in college. Would you be worried about the burden, the expectation, the celebrity? I mean, you got Texas's program, the Manning name. Would you be a little worried about that if you were Sark coming into the season?

[Mack Brown]

Yes. And you have less worries because Archie Manning's the granddad and Eli and Peyton are uncles. And Cooper's been through this whole ride with all of them. The dad and this family handles it. They got class, they got charisma, they got confidence. They have done all of these things they need to do. And I've been around Arch enough. He's just, he's smart, he's self deprecating, he'll laugh. He, he'll, he'll talk about people that have said critical things of him and say, yeah, I understand that. Just, I haven't played a lot yet, and so I'm really excited to watch him play. I watched Chris Sims go through this with his dad winning a Super Bowl.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right. That's right.

[Mack Brown]

And then I watched, I watched Vince Young and his last year going through. Is he going to win the Heisman? Is, is he better than Matt Lantern? Better than Reggie Bush? And, and Vince has got a really good perspective on being the quarterback here. But Arch is really into the guys. He's into that locker room, and that's what's so critical for a quarterback. And the thing, Colin, I think people miss on Arch is Archie could run. Granddad, we all saw him. I played against. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he could run, man. And Eli and Peyton were, they could run, but there were more pocket quarterbacks. Arch can run, and that will give him a chance. They got four new offensive linemen, so that's going to be difficult going to Ohio State. But when you've got a quarterback that can run, it makes those offensive linemen.

[Colin Cowherd]

Look a lot better, you know. So Belichick takes your gig. I. It's interesting because usually when a legend like you retires, they bring in a young hotshot. They didn't. They brought in an old NFL guy who's. Who kind of has a way of doing things. I think I'll throw it, give you my take. I think nil saves Bill. I don't think Bill would have succeeded in the old way of building through high school players. But the NIL is almost professional football. I think it gives him a chance. But I also think Mac 17 hours max. I mean, you don't get the hours. You can't have a 60 hour week. Kids have more power. There's a lot of stuff here where I'm like, I don't know, give me your crystal ball. What do you think Bill will handle effortlessly and what could be something that, you know, he'll. He'll kick around a little.

[Mack Brown]

The first thing Colin Chancellor Lee Roberts has committed to football big time. For the first time in North Carolina history. They are really wanting football to be good. So they're all in. And that gives them a chance to be successful. Bill is arguably the best coach of any sport. When you win that many Super Bowls, at whatever level the man can coach, he can evaluate because he had to bring in all those kids, the Patriots and now administrators don't like to say it, but we have pro football at some level in college. We no longer have amateurism. We have payment scales. We've got nil. Kids are asking for money. They have agents, there's negotiations. So I do think the fact that we are much more like the NFL than ever before will really help Bill with this transition. The other thing is every coach wants his own players. And they used to say it takes you two or three years to get your guys in there. He's brought in 72 new guys. So you got money, you can evaluate and you can bring in who you want. I think he has a chance to win big and win big fast.

[Colin Cowherd]

We were talking about this. It seems like about every third year you get a really, really good quarterback class. And Cade Clubnik is, I swear. Is he from Austin? He may be from Austin, Texas. Is he?

[Mack Brown]

Yes. Westlake High School.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right. Yeah. So he, where you're at? He's from there. So I went back and I watched his high school stuff and I went, I went deep diving A couple. And I saw him play a few times for Clemson. He moves like Arch Manning. He can move a little bit now. He's a. He'll 4, 6, 5. He can run. You faced him, I think, twice at Carolina. I remember one for sure. Twice. What, when you. After those games, was he better in person? Were there things he struggled with? Give me a. Give me a little bit of a. If I'm an NFL GM and I call you, I say Mac, I'm thinking of drafting Cade Klubnick. Give me a thumbnail sketch on him. What do you. What do you think of him?

[Mack Brown]

I saw him in high school. My son went to Westlake High School. Todd Dodge was his coach. And I knew Todd really, really well. We recruited him and couldn't get him to come. I think he's really, really good. The two times that we played him, the first time he was good, but okay, maybe a little cautious last year, at the end of the year, he got really confident. He nearly brought him back in Austin in a huge game, playoff game. But especially for him at home, he's tough. He can run, he can throw, he's accurate, he's confident. And I think he gives Clemson a chance to be really, really good.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, you know, Clemson hasn't done the NIL stuff. You are a legendary recruiter. Belichick, Deion Sanders, Lincoln Riley, Brian Kelly, they're all in on it. I worry that Nil erodes chemistry. That's what I worry about. I feel like you don't know the odometer on a used car. I like to know what I know about my guys. I've been recruiting since they were high school sophomores. What did you make of nil? Does it. I mean, forget the pay in the players, kid. They. They obviously deserve some compensation, but what does it do to a locker room? Does anything worry you about the Portal or Nil?

[Mack Brown]

Colin, it's another great question. I do think the. The major programs, the brand programs that are going to have the majority of the money, it's going to ruin the competitive balance in college football because we're going to have the same 15 playing at the end. And if you've got enough money to recruit high school players and keep them, then nil is not going to bother you. When you bring in all the different guys, it's really hard. So what we learned is if you've got money and you buy a team, it doesn't mean you're going to win. Number one, you got to buy the right ones. Number two, they've all got to fit well in that locker room, you've got to mesh together as a team, which is hard in a short period of time. And number three, they've got to be unselfish. And that's one thing we're looking at right now. I saw Cedric Benson in a locker room after we beat Michigan in the Rose bowl sit there crying because he didn't want to take his uniform off and he was a first round draft choice and he just sat there and I said, why are you crying? He said, this is the last time I'll ever have this uniform on and I'm not sure we're going to have that loyalty. At schools that are bringing in all the transfers now, as much as the one like Sark only brought in 10 transfers, 10, 11. He's building it with high school guys. Clemson is building it with high school guys. They bring in a few transfers, but not many. So at the highest level, if you can continue to bring in and develop the right guys and you're recruiting the right guys, I think you're going to have the chance to be the most consistent program programs in the long haul through this nil period.

[Colin Cowherd]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific East. Mike Carmen I'm Dan Byer and we have a fantasy football podcast called I Want your Flexed.

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[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I like that. I like, you know, I'm kind of with Sark on that. Or like if you're Ohio State and you bring in like Caleb Downs, if you can bring in a first round pick, go get him by all means, but I worry about that. Oh, by the way, I gotta ask you about Drake May. So I like. One of the things I like about Drake May, he was your quarterback for several years is that I like he comes from a family of athletes and older brothers. And there is something about that coach, about the toughness, you know, playing with your brother's buddies and you're getting thrown around the basketball court and the football. Give me, did you notice that with Drake? Because in the NFL as a rookie, they're going to haze you, they're going to be on you, you're carrying luggage. They're at Vrabel's, a tough guy. What about Drake May impressed you beyond the size, the arm, what else did you like about it?

[Mack Brown]

He said when he was a kid he had to fight for food. He had all those brothers in there. So everything he did, he, he would have to compete and fight so they, they'd play pickleball and get mad. And one day I walked in the players lounge and there was a broken ping pong paddle. And I said, who broke the paddle? And he's sitting over in the corner and they all pointed to Drake and I said, drake, why'd you break the paddle? He said, the tight end beat me in ping pong. Can you imagine? The tight end beat me and ping pong. And I said, yeah, but I still think you can keep the PA clean without breaking it. But he, he is so competitive. He's smart, he's got a great heart. He is a wonderful team leader. He'll have that locker room fighting for him in every minute. I just love him. I. I think he's a quarterback that's going to win a Super Bowl.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, that's great. Okay. Finally, Mac and I talked for a couple minutes before we went on the air, and he moved to Austin, Texas, which is one of America's great cities, and I'm not telling you where, but I know what golf course he's on, and it's darn nice, I'll tell you that. And I told you during the break, I said, My wife said, you need to get a hobby, and I could never find one. And then two years ago, I got oddly, bizarrely into obsessed with golf and just crazy. Like, you know, just. I'm into it all the time. And tell me a little bit about. Are you playing golf regularly, Colin?

[Mack Brown]

I'm playing just about every day. I'm playing six holes, nine holes, 12 holes, and I just love it. And as a coach, you played, but you played with boosters. They were asking about the quarterback or why'd you do this or why'd you do that? They told you, you can play bad, but don't play bad and slow. You got to play fast. You never practice. You're always shaking hands before you hit the ball on the first tee in a tournament. So I've never been able to really play golf and enjoy it, and now I am just absolutely loving it. So I'm. I'm doing my work, I'm doing some stuff, and then I head to the golf course.

[Colin Cowherd]

And what did your for? You have a friend that told you. I want. I want you to share this with our audience because it really is so true. What did your. You have a friend that's a golfer. What did he tell you about golf?

[Mack Brown]

I was playing with my friend the other day, and he was playing awful. He was really struggling. So he looked at me at the end of the match and he said, you know, coach, this is really interesting golf. I said, what are you talking about, bud? And he said, it costs a lot of money. It takes all day to play four and a half, five hours. You hit a lot of bad shots, and it makes you absolutely miserable. And as soon as you get through, you can't wait to get back on the course. And I think that's.

[Colin Cowherd]

God, that is. And it's expensive. I mean, it checks every bad box.

[Mack Brown]

And when you get home, your wife's mad. Where have you been?

[Colin Cowherd]

Did you have fun?

[Mack Brown]

No, it was Awful. I had so many bad shots.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, it's so true. It's great to see you as always. Great, great American sports storyteller. Mack, I love you. Thank you so much.

[Mack Brown]

Thanks, Colin. Love you and appreciate what you do.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right, Mack Brown. That is so maddeningly true about golf. It checks everything that you would hate about any activity and you cannot wait to play. Driving home, you're like, oh, I hit back to back shots on the six hole that were pretty good and that'll that gets the car to turn around eventually go back. That's unbelievable. Now by middle cough, John, is is. Now you're only in your 40s and you're already obsessed, am I right?

Yeah, I like swinging the sticks a little bit. I consume. I watched a lot of golf content. I'm a football guy, but golf's probably my first love.

Yeah. John with the news. No, no, no, turn on the news.

This is the hard line news. Well, we talked about Burrow earlier today and obviously the Trey Hendrickson contract saga continues as he continues his hold in at Bengals camp. We discussed yesterday that the two sides are nowhere close to guaranteed with the guaranteed money. With that said, one anonymous NFL executive says there is no doubt that the Raiders would be the front runners to land Hendrickson if he's traded Colin, should the Raiders make a move for the defensive end?

Well, I mean between, you know, in a division with Bo Nixon, Payton and Harbaugh and Herbert and Andy Reid, the way to neutralize that is have two of the top four edge rushers and football with Max Crosby and Hendrickson. I mean, you know, if you're not paying your quarterback Matt Stafford money or Mahomes money, Gino got a good contract, but it's more in line with Baker and Sam Darnold. There are, I mean, when Tom Brady was in his division or Peyton Manning in his, you would spend money on edge rushers. You would spend money on pass rushers.

I do think the last two years, Bowers, Genti, the first round picks for the Raiders are really important. Here's the problem. Brady, their new general manager, John Spytak thinking big picture, right? What we're going to do for the next five, ten years. Pete Carroll, 73. Look at Pete Carroll in Seattle. Traded for Percy Harvin, traded for Jimmy Graham, traded for Jamal Adams. I think Pete Carroll, a couple of weeks ago they asked him like, what's your plan this year? He's like, to win. I've been winning 10 games a year for 20 plus years. Pete Carroll is not there for building this thing up for Ben John, the next Ben Johnson in three years to take over. He would want to make this trade.

They were they are noticeably better at coaching than quarterback and they gave I mean they were a tough outlet. Kansas City should have lost, could have lost to him twice. They were a tough out last year.

To me if you're the Raiders and John Spytak you could not give a first round pick. Now after that would I give a second round pick for him? Yes, I would be highly interested in doing something like that. But the first round pick and to me if you're the Bengals you can't get rid of them. Speaking about first round picks, Michael Pennix Jr. He showed a lot of promise last year at the end of the season with the Falcons. Their offense ranked among the top 10 offenses in the NFL in the final three weeks of the season heading into year two the OC Zach Robinson gave some high praise to Penix's ability under center.

[Zach Robinson]

It's a trait that really you look at the best QBs around the league they all have different angles they can drop it down. You know if you need to go up and over the top of the defender got to be able to do that. Mike has as quick a release as I've ever been around in terms of how quickly the ball comes out of his hand and the way that he's able to get it out of his hand and to the receiver. How quickly it happens is pretty special.

[Colin Cowherd]

What do you think Colin? The Atlanta Falcons Michael Penix are you buying in because last year a lot of people picked them Cousins fell off a cliff this year Panicks who were both fans of in college. The Atlanta Falcons though they lose a lot.

I thought he, I thought his comp was a bigger stronger tua that he throws an incredibly casual ball. He's an accurate thrower. He know he played in bad weather at Indiana and Washington and college now he gets to a dome so you know that's that's something like two it tends to be a warm weather quarterback Penix Penix is playing in rain and wind and lousy weather. I don't know I think he throws a great ball and it's funny left handed batters in baseball just look cooler. Agreed there there is something about a left handed athlete. Phil Mickelson swinging the golf club Tony Gwynn the late Tony Gwynn swinging the bat like I love the way the ball looks from my I thought he threw the best deep ball in college. I saw him play live. It is beautiful. He throws a Beautiful ball.

I do think a couple problems for them. I think Tampa is going to be pretty good this year. I mean they've been pretty good the last couple years. I think Carolina is a team on the rise. They're going to be a lot better. While Mack Brown was telling story after story, I was looking at the Internet. The last 24 hours they have lost two offensive linemen. They lost a guy yesterday and they had a guy carded off today. So that offensive line which has been a strength of the team, there's only five of them. So if I remove two, we're talking what, 40% immediately. These are long term injuries. Potentially that would be a problem because remember Penix had a really, really good offensive line in college.

Yes. Also remember John, because you're not paying Pennocks and I don't know how are they still paying any of the.

Kirk Cousins, he's the backup making $28 million.

I was going to say because they, they could be a team that makes a trade early in the season. If they like Penix in that division. They start off 3 and 1. I could see them saying Pennix has some injury history at Indiana. I could see them making a move for an interior offensive lineman. Trade deadlines like week goes up to week eight.

Yeah.

So that, that's an interesting team I could see. I mean you don't want a young quarterback that has an injury history getting banged on if he, if he, if they can't protect him because they gave up Drew Dolman. Remember Drew Dahlman went to the Bears, he was a top five center in the league. So there's, they started with an issue, a little bit of a hole on their interior O line.

And while Penix, remember he ran a really fast 40 at the combine, he's not a running guy, he's a pocket quarterback. Okay. Speaking of quarterbacks, the Cardinals, they're coming off an 89 season where they started but faded. And after the bye week and finished third in the NFC West, Kyler Murray is entering his seventh. God, that seems crazy NFL season but is yet to win a playoff game in Arizona. And Matt Leiner, former Cardinal quarterback, says it's time to take the next step, which is the playoffs. It's a winnable division. He has to put it together this year. Is this a make or break year for Kyler Murray in Arizona, Colin?

I think it is because of the stuff off the field. I am a supporter. I mean like that throw right there. I'll tell you, John, you live down in Arizona, so you see more of the local stuff and read more of it. I like their roster. Yeah, I really do. And I think, I think the coach, a little bit like Seattle's coach, defensive guy I think is young and sharp. You know, J. Mac said this a week ago, he has them in the playoffs. I would be, I would not be shocked if you told me they end up winning 11 games. They have got, I mean you start looking at McBride and Harrison and Murray, they've got some star. Buddha Baker, they've got star players in key spots.

Well, they had, I mean a lot of people think they had an excellent draft. Will Johnson, the star corner for Michigan, a lot of people like, oh, he's too slow. They got in the second round. He's been making plays at practice. I just don't think if you put a top 10 quarterback on their team, I think they could. If you put Joe Burrow on their team, they win like 14 games. Their roster is really good. Yeah, I just don't trust this quarterback. He had in his first preseason Colin game. He threw one of the worst picks so far of the of August and he's a starting quarterback, seventh year guy making huge money. No one disputes his physical ability. Hard for him to see. So he's always got to be on the move and his decision making. Sometimes when the ball leaves his hand, it's beautiful. Sometimes it hits the other team in stride. He throws terrible interceptions.

Yeah, he does. He's a little bit of a mercurial personality too, but man, when he's on, he throws when he is on like he was against the Rams last year. And he had a perfect passer. When he is on, he's a nightmare. He gave the Niners trouble. Like when he's moving around, he's feeling it. He's not getting hit. He's a handful.

Yeah, he's. He's a talent.

John with the news.

Well, that's the news and thanks for.

[Danielle Fishel]

Stopping by the Herd.

[Colin Cowherd]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

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[Colin Cowherd]

What a pleasure it was to have Mack Brown on the show today. And you know, some, we have, we have to acknowledge that some kids do not get a great support system when they're young. And Arch Manning comes from stability, great parents, grandparents. The Manning family is really smart, really classy and you know, they're, they're well healed. They've got, you know, they're, they didn't, they got money, so, and all that stuff can help. Although money can, you know, mo money, mole problems. But I think one of the things about Arch Manning, he feels really mature for his age. And you know, I was, you know, his granddad Archie Manning played for the Saints, who's actually a really good athlete. And Mack Brown talked about Arch at Texas and his, his future.

[Mack Brown]

I've been around Arch enough. He's just, he's smart, he's self deprecating. He'll, he'll laugh. He, he, he'll, he'll talk about people that have said critical things of him and say, yeah, I understand that. It's just I haven't played a lot yet and so I'm really excited to watch him play.

[Colin Cowherd]

I was really kind of impressed me last year as a backup playing behind somebody. I think he's as good or better than. Didn't say a word. In the world of transfer portal and nil he was making some money, but that impressed me. Then I asked Mac about. I do think not every great NFL coach would have the patience or the temperament for college football and boosters and the NCAA and athletic directors. And I. I don't think Belichick 10 years ago would have succeeded in college football. Saban's got a bigger personality. Saban and Belichick are linked. Are the same guy. No, they're not. Nick is very funny. Nick. Nick. Nick loves to speak. Nick is great on tv. Nick is a really, really, you know, photogenic, smart, fun, lively. Yeah, Bill kind of tolerates the media. You know, it's an uncomfortable smile. But I do think the NIL really helps Bill because it's basically free agency. It's going and buying players, and I think that really helps him. And Mack Brown talks about Belichick and his Tar Heel future.

[Mack Brown]

The man can coach, he can evaluate. Because he had to bring in all those kids at the Patriots. And now administrators don't like to say it, but we have pro football at some level in college. We no longer have amateurism. We have payment scales. We've got NIL Kids are asking for money. They have agents. There's negotiations. So I do think the fact that we are much more like the NFL than ever before will really help Bill with this transition.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, there's this feeling that NFL guys are better coaches. They'll go to college football. In the NFL, you're as good as your quarterback. Belichick's a great example. In college, you're as good as you're recruiting. You don't have to have a great quarterback now. Now Dabo Swinney had Trevor Lawrence and DeSean Watson. That helped a lot. But, I mean, Nick Saban won a lot of titles with average quarterbacks, so don't even need to name them. You know who they are. So college football is about recruiting. And I don't think Belichick would have been a great high school recruiter, but I do think the NIL allows him to write checks. And he and Mike Lombardi, you know, they'll labor. He's a good personnel guy. I think they'll. I think they'll figure it out. I am at much like Dion Sanders opener against tcu. I am. I have no idea what they're going to look like. Didn't Max say they have 70 transfers, John? 70. I mean, if you bring on five free agents, that's like, whoa, slow down. It may damage chemistry. 70 new players or 70 new people and new staff? I don't know. What the number is, but it's a lot. I thought it was 40, but I just don't. I think it's, you know, again limited hours. I don't know what to make of Carolina.

If it actually is 70, I'm out on them. There's no way. I mean that's just. Especially him. It's very. His scheme is pretty intense. I mean everything. The other thing I find funny is like players now ask for money, they'll just go into the office, right? In college I need a raise. Well, Bill for 20 years was known for saying no, you know, not paying him. And now he's just going to say yes to all these guys. I mean his whole thing when he hung his hat on that made him a great NFL personnel guy or make great personnel moves. Was not willing to quote unquote, overpay. Guys, now there's a salary caps a little different. But still be fascinated when the first guy knocks on his door and wants a big raise mid season. How Bill reacts.

The staff just sent this to me. They added 40 incoming players. Now the quarterbacks, the kid named Geo Lopez and I went and youtubed him.

South Alabama or something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's athletic guy, you know, it'd be interesting to watch. He's obviously got some talent or Bill wouldn't have recruited him. By the way, I, I said this earlier today. Aaron Rodgers Steeler helmet. He's complained about it. It's awful. It's just too big. It's a spaceship. So the staff came out with ideas. Now the bucket. Look, I don't think that's going to work. That doesn't, that doesn't seem like it would pass safety protocols. Yeah, that's not going to work. No, that's not going to work either. No, these are bad ideas. Yeah, I thought his helmet was bad. These are worse. No, that's the guys that's not going to work either. Sorry to the radio audience. These are. You don't even need to see these. These are terrible ideas. Is that a drum set? No, that's. That's probably be a little disconcerting.

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No, that's no coffee maker. That's not gonna work either. We'll see you tomorrow. Well, we all have juggles and struggles.

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[Colin Cowherd]

Com this is an iHeart podcast.