THE HERD - Hour 3 - James Palmer, Kevin O’Connor

Summary

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The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Hour 3 – James Palmer, Kevin O’Connor
Date: May 25, 2026

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Overview

Hour 3 of “The Herd” finds Jason Whitlock (subbing for Colin Cowherd) diving into the NBA Playoffs' pivotal matchups, with deep analysis of Victor Wembanyama’s dominance, the flailing Oklahoma City Thunder, and the looming AJ Brown NFL trade saga. He’s joined by NFL insider James Palmer and NBA analyst Kevin O’Connor, who provide their signature insights into the league's most talked-about players, coaching decisions, and future storylines. The discussion maintains The Herd's mix of hot takes, analytical breakdowns, and unfiltered banter, making it a must-listen during a critical sports weekend.

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NBA Playoff Deep Dive

Spurs vs. Thunder: The Wembanyama Factor

• Wembanyama’s Dominance: Spurs’ Victor Wembanyama put on a spectacular 33-point, 8-rebound performance in Game 4, tying the series. Whitlock heaps praise:

  “Wembanyama is the best player on the planet. 33 and 8. Last night he was extraordinary.” [03:21]

• Undermanned Thunder: Injuries to AJ Mitchell (calf) and Jalen Williams (hamstring) leave OKC depleted, with Whitlock painting a grim picture:

  "You take away those two shot creators … OKC was held to their lowest point total in the playoffs since 2020." [04:25]

• Chet Holmgren Concerns: Holmgren, newly named third-team All-NBA, is criticized for his playoff disappearance, especially against Wembanyama:

  “How the hell is Chet Holmgren all NBA? … He’s standing in the corner being a non-factor.” [05:44]

• SGA’s Struggles: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander is stymied by Wembanyama’s defense, becoming a mid-range shooter, a major departure from his usual game (see also O'Connor below).

Notable Exchange: SGA on Chet Holmgren Involvement

• Asked how he can get Holmgren more involved, SGA provides a bafflingly vague answer:

  “Chet’s an easy target to find, so probably just like find him more in the dunker when he’s spacing. Just put him in better positions to use his strengths … I don’t know exactly what that looks like.” [06:44]

• Whitlock reacts:

  “I honestly thought that was AI generated … He has no answers for how to get his third team all NBA teammate involved.” [07:03]

Playoff Series Outlook

• Spurs in Control: Whitlock confidently predicts the Spurs to take Game 5 and wrap up the series in 6.
• Popovich’s Role: A “productive” Wembanyama-Popovich meeting, likened humorously to Obi Wan and Anakin, is noted as helping the young star settle in.

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NFL Rumblings: Jalen Hurts & AJ Brown

The Jalen Hurts Conundrum

• Perplexing Narratives: Whitlock is baffled by the negative national narrative around Jalen Hurts:

  “He’s getting disrespected on levels that still don’t make sense to me.” [08:42]

• Comparison to Lamar Jackson: Hurts' Super Bowl MVP credential gets less respect than Jackson’s flash and regular season MVPs. Whitlock questions why Hurts is deemed "boring" and under more pressure than other stars.
• New Offensive Coordinator: Philly’s hire of Sean Mannion (and prior coaching churn) adds uncertainty. Mannion is bullish:

  “Jalen's been awesome … He can do anything we ask of him. He's accurate. He's a great athlete. He really attacks the fundamentals … He's hungry for more.” [13:08]

James Palmer Joins: Eagles' Decision-Making & AJ Brown’s Future

[Starts at 17:07]

• Hurts' Lack of Input: Philadelphia’s organizational focus is “what’s best for the Eagles,” not necessarily what syncs best with Hurts’ style, especially in offensive coordinator hiring and the draft.

  “[Moves] look like they're what's in the best interest of the organization moving forward. And maybe on paper, don't fit Jalen, but I would end with this: When Jalen is doubted… that’s usually when we see the most motivated Jalen Hurts.” [19:31]

• Draft Philosophy & Weapons: The drafting of intermediate route specialists (Makai Lemon, Eli Stowers) seems to press Hurts to throw between the hashes, an area of relative weakness.
• AJ Brown Trade Watch:
  • After June 1, Philadelphia's cap situation changes, opening up trade possibilities.
  • Palmer believes the chances are “pretty small” that Brown remains an Eagle a month from now:

    “It's Monday, 4 o'clock. That's when the financial aspect of this thing changes … I think Howie's going to try to increase his leverage … all arrows are pointing to New England.” [22:18]

  • Possible Suitors Beyond Patriots: Rams have previously been involved, with “all arrows” still pointing to New England, but other sleeper teams (Raiders, Chargers, Texans) could get involved.

Lamar Jackson & Coaching Dynamics

• Jackson’s relationship with new head coach Jesse Minter is surprisingly strong ("far better than it's been in years past" [26:49]) despite Minter’s past on defense. There's pressure due to contract, injuries, and a new offensive coordinator with no play-calling experience.

Rookie QB Fernando Mendoza vs. Kirk Cousins

• Palmer outlines why the current philosophy leans toward starting Cousins, noting the value of letting a rookie like Mendoza learn behind a seasoned vet, barring an exceptional preseason performance.

  “They have a certain plan in place. I think Fernando would have to blow that up ... to change their thinking.” [30:13]

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NBA Roundtable with Kevin O'Connor

[Starts at 41:02]

Spurs-Thunder Revisited, Wembanyama’s Gravity

• O’Connor highlights how Wembanyama’s presence has re-shaped SGA’s game:

  “During the regular season … [SGA] took 25% of his shots inside … that's down to 12% [in this series]. Wemby's turning him into a DeMar DeRozan pull-up mid-range shooter … it just baffles me … but it speaks to Wemby's greatness on the defensive end.” [42:23]

• Flopping Discourse
  • Whitlock and O’Connor discuss the pervasiveness and optics of flopping, especially SGA’s reputation.

    “I think tanking is an abomination and good on the NBA for trying to get rid of that. But flopping is also an abomination, and that's what the NBA needs to focus on next.” [44:44]

Chet Holmgren’s Playoff Disappearance

• O’Connor’s Take:

  “Chet Holmgren has taken 24 shots in this series with Wemby on the floor. Only six times has he dribbled … He is afraid of getting into the paint — and understandably so.” [46:10]

Steph Castle’s Growth & Defensive Value

• Castle, after a turnover-prone series start (20 turnovers in two games), has looked much improved, especially on defense against SGA.

  “No doubt about it … It seems like he’s slowed down a little bit, he’s not forcing the issue as much … Isn’t that what you want to see young stars do?” [47:20]

Knicks vs. Cavs Outlook & Next Opponent

• O’Connor: Knicks are likely better off facing the depleted Thunder next round rather than Spurs and Wembanyama.

Notable Exchange: Giannis Trade Sleeper?

• Surprise suggestion:

  “Sleeper … the Wizards, just considering the fact they have 80, and probably don’t want to be there in Washington … I don’t think you’d have to give up that number one pick to do it.” [49:32]

• Whitlock: “Whoa, that’s breaking my brain.” [49:57]

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Around the League: News & Notables

Knicks vs. Cavaliers Odds

• Knicks favored; both Whitlock and Nichols predict a convincing New York win.

Anthony Edwards’ Sportsmanship Debate

• Discussion of Edwards congratulating the Spurs bench early, attracting mixed reviews, but appreciation for his honesty and straightforward personality.

Sam Darnold’s Maturity

• Darnold, now viewed as a role model for professionalism, reflects on the Vikings choosing to move on, praising the business side of the decision:

  “I totally understand the move to go with the younger quarterback on a rookie deal … I think J.J.’s a good player … I truly believe that.” [36:09]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Wembanyama Praise

  “Catch him lobs … Left-handed dunk in the lane … He was everywhere.” — Jason Whitlock [03:21]

• Holmgren’s Plight

  “Put him in the dunker spot … That’s what you do for like a center who has no game whatsoever.” — Whitlock [07:03]

• On Jalen Hurts

  “He’s getting disrespected on levels that still don’t make sense to me.” — Whitlock [08:42]
  “Jalen’s been awesome … He’s hungry for more.” — Sean Manion via James Palmer [13:08]

• On Flopping & the NBA’s Image

  “Flopping is also an abomination and that’s what the NBA needs to focus on next.” — Kevin O'Connor [44:44]

• On Chet Holmgren vs. Wemby

  “He is afraid of getting into the paint and understandably so against Victor Wenyama.” — O’Connor [46:10]

• On Steph Castle

  “He’s sneaky one of the best young two-way players in the league.” — Whitlock [47:20]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• NBA Playoffs Analysis: [02:29–08:42]
• NFL - Jalen Hurts Discourse: [08:42–13:31]
• James Palmer Interview (Eagles, Trade Watch): [17:07–31:10]
• NBA News Banter (Rachel Nichols): [31:22–41:02]
• Kevin O’Connor NBA Roundtable: [41:02–50:11]

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Tone & Style

• The episode keeps a sharp, conversational, and occasionally irreverent tone. Whitlock balances bold pronouncements with in-depth analysis, sparring affably with Palmer, Nichols, and O’Connor. The panel isn’t afraid to call out players or team philosophies, but also highlights character, growth, and maturity among athletes.

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Summary

Hour 3 of The Herd draws a vivid picture of the shifting NBA and NFL landscapes during a critical playoff and offseason crossroads. Wembanyama’s transformational impact, the Thunder’s regression, the enigmatic public perception of Jalen Hurts, and blockbuster trade watch for AJ Brown all receive the deeply opinionated, entertaining Herd treatment. Notable guests James Palmer and Kevin O’Connor provide league-insider context, elevating the episode with exclusive reporting and fresh storylines for both diehard and casual sports fans.

Transcript

[Jason Whitlock]

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[Jason Whitlock]

now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Welcome back. Our number three here on the Herd on a beautiful Memorial Day in Los Angeles. It's about to be a beautiful night in New York celebrating the Knicks beating the Cavs tonight. You can lock that up, folks. That's happening. Coming up in 15 minutes, James Palmer stops by the show. We are on AJ Brown watch. We are within one one week to that June 1st deadline. Any sleeper teams that could sneak in or is the Patriots a formality? Very excited to talk about that. End of the hour, Kevin o' Connor stops by. We'll look into the wounded OKC Thunder and my Spurs. Can they wrap up the series in six? And let's start right there. I mean, last night, game four. Victor Wembanyama leading the charge with 33 points. Once again, he was the best player on the floor. I don't know how SGA was awarded the mvp. Oh, regular season award day. Wembanyama is the best player on the planet. 33 and 8. Last night he was extraordinary. I mean, catching lobs. I. I think one of the smaller narratives is when Victor Wembanyama's dunking. I think he has 10 dunks in the two wins. They look amazing. When he's hitting half court shots, they look unstoppable. Wembanyama was just all of the adjectives. Look at that left handed dunk in the lane. He was everywhere. He's also, by the way, reducing Chet Holmgren to like a bench warmer. We'll get to that shortly. But the spurs tie the series and I think the big takeaway from OKC is that the AJ Mitchell calf injury is very serious, folks. It's sounding like he's not going to play the rest of the series. We know calf injuries have been really bad in the last postseason and change. And now you've got J Dub also out with the hamstring, his fourth hamstring injury of the season. So you take away those two shot creators and wouldn't you know it, OKC was held to their lowest point total in the playoffs since 2020. It was unbelievable. Here's Victor Wembanyama afterward, talking about what changed in game four.

[Kevin O'Connor]

We didn't do nothing unexpected, but the truth is that we had never been in this kind of situation before. It was our first deficit in the playoff series and we just responded. It was nothing amazing. It wasn't magic. We just did what we needed to do. And the series is far from over.

[Jason Whitlock]

Yeah, far from over. I think the spurs are in control. I think they're in great shape. With two shot creators out for the Thunder. What do they have? It was basically SGA in a cloud of dust. Now my guy, Steph Castle caught a lot of heat after the first two games. Oh, he's got 20 turnovers. He's not a point guard. Settle down, dear. And Fox, a true point guard in high school, college and the pros, returns. And Castle only has two turnovers in the last two games. Castle can focus more on defense. SGA only had 19 yesterday and they didn't double SGA when he came across half court because there was really nobody else to worry about. And I say nobody else because that's strange given that Chet Holmgren was named third team all NBA over the weekend. Now, if you've watched this series, you wonder, how the hell is chet Holmgren all NBA? He's averaging 11 points on 46% shooting. I don't care that against Phoenix and the lakers he was 37 of 38 within 5ft of the basket. Now he's going up against a guy bigger than him, better offensively and defensively. And Chet is standing in the corner being a non factor. Folks, listen to this. When SGA was asked about, hey, how does Chet help you out? This is a crazy response.

[James Palmer]

You've talked before about priding yourself on making your teammates better. Just what are some things you think

[Kevin O'Connor]

you can do to help get Chad

[James Palmer]

a little bit more involved offensively?

[Jason Whitlock]

Yeah,

[Kevin O'Connor]

I mean, Chad, Chet's an easy

[James Palmer]

target to find, so probably just like

[Kevin O'Connor]

find him more in the dunker when he's spacing. Just put him in better positions to use his strengths as an offensive talent. I don't know exactly what that looks like.

[Jason Whitlock]

Wow. I honestly thought that was AI generated. The first time I heard it. I sent it to the producers. I'm like, just make sure this isn't AI. You don't know what's fake these days. He has no answers for how to get his third team all NBA teammate involved. And then he was reduced to put him in the dunker spot. Guys, that's what you do for like a center who has no game whatsoever. And hey, let's just lob it to him in the dunker spot and get easy layups. Really, I'm flabbergasted. I don't know what the solution is. This is why I feel the spurs are confident. I think they win game five. I went back last year and looked at Pacers Thunder game five of the finals. It was two. Two, okc. Goes home. Guess who they leaned on. J Dub had the best game of his career, a 40 piece. And SGA had 31. They took over. It was kind of your turn. My turn. The Pacers had no answers. Who is the wingman to SGA in game 5? I don't know who that is. I think the spurs win game five and wrap it up in six. And then we have some uncomfortable conversations about the flopping of SGA and the overratedness of the Thunder. Now, I do want to wrap up. Gregg Popovich had a good meeting with Wembanyama during the series. It was very productive, apparently. And our crack graphics team, you know, when I mentioned Popovich, I was like, what is he, some Obi Wan Kenobi figure? Factoring in here, talking to Wembanyama, the young guy, the young Luke Skywalker. And our crack graphics team came up with this Anakin sky blocker and Obi Pop Kenobi. I, I, I think you guys would love that. Anyways, all right, let's move on to the NFL and it's the full off season mode right now.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Right.

[Jason Whitlock]

We're in late May. Everybody's waiting for the A.J. brown Domino to fall. And we're, we're looking at some, maybe some quarterback storylines. We'll get to Mendoza versus Cousins shortly. Obviously, the Rams and Seahawks are the big, the big bad teams in the nfc. AFC is kind of muddled, but I keep looking at this Jalen Hurts situation and I'm myself just a little confused. So perhaps you can help me out here. So Jalen Hurts who? I said last week on the show we're only going to call him super bowl mvp. Jalen Hurts from now on. Just so everybody remembers, he was the super bowl mvp. He's, he's getting disrespected on levels that still don't make sense to me. Okay. This is a guy who's been to two Super Bowls in one against the Chiefs. He was extraordinary. And if the defense had got to stop on Mahomes late, Jalen Hurts would have been the Super Bowl MVP against the Chiefs. And he obviously was in the second meeting when they, the defense bottled up. Mahomes and Hertz went nuts offensively passing and running the football. So he's an MVP in the super bowl and all. I keep hearing this off season. And we'll have a guest on later to talk about. This is, well, this is a make or break season for Jalen Hurts. How is that exactly? Why is that? Why is it a make or break season? And I'm looking at the numbers and people like, well, he's not throwing the ball over the middle, right? The numbers show a little reluctance to go over the middle. Okay. You know, I know Collins vacationing in Spain so he won't hear this. I can take a shot. Jalen Hurts doesn't throw a great deep ball. Jalen hurts isn't 6 5. The tush push isn't sexy. You know what sexy is? Lamar Jackson, right? Flashy, fun, shake and bake, Ricky Bobby. He's moving around in the pocket. He's eluding defenders. He's dancing. He's got two MVPs. And I asked the staff this morning, I was like, lamar Jackson doesn't get the criticism. Jalen Hurts does. Is it because Lamar is fun and exciting and flashy? Two MVPs, I mean, hasn't been to a Super Bowl. You could go look at his performance in the AFC Championship at home against the Chiefs. Rotten. I don't know. Why is Lamar Jackson escaping criticism and Jalen Hurts is a punching bag. When one has been to two Super Bowls, one has won a Super Bowl MVP. He doesn't have any regular season MVPs. I mean, you can have those. I'd rather win the Super Bowl. I don't know about you. Maybe we're built different guys, but I mean, if we want to point to coaching for a moment, I don't want to hear it. Because the head coach that Lamar's had his entire career is John Harbaugh. I think they're carving out his bustin kitten. He's considered one of the best coaches in the league. I mean, he won before Lamar. He's won a lot with Lamar. They haven't broke through in the playoffs. A lot of that's on Lamar. Some of it's on the coach. But okay, we could. We could talk about coaches because Jalen Hurts has had Doug Peterson and Nick Sirianni. Not sure what they'll be doing in a few years, but I don't know if there'll be head coaches in the NFL. And then you look at his offensive coordinators. For Jalen Hurts, it's a revolving door. If you have success, boom, you're getting another job. If you don't have success, you're on the unemployment line. And it's. It's just a weird situation in Philly. I don't know if this is media and fan driven, but I get the sense when they have a lot of success in Philly. Well, it's Saquon Barkley. He had 2,000 yards. What do you do in the super bowl when Hertz was mvp? I'll let you look that up during the commercial break. Well, it's the defense, Jay. It's not that much. Jalen hurts anytime they lose. Do you want to guess who the blame is on? Yeah. It's funny how it works that way. I don't know. Maybe it's. He's too boring at the podium. The stoicism, you know, I like Hurts at the podium. He shows up with a briefcase. He's all business. He's not giving any. Any ammunition or bulletin board material to the opponents. I think he's great, but maybe he's boring. Maybe it's the Tush push. People just hate it. They're out on the tush push. I don't know. Help me. I'm trying to figure out why everybody says this is a make or break season for Jalen Hurts. Listen to his new offensive coordinator, Sean Manion. You tell me this is a make or break season or not.

[James Palmer]

Jalen's been awesome. You know, I really think he can do anything we ask of him. He's accurate. He's a great athlete. He really attacks the fundamentals. That's what's been really fun to watch these last two weeks of phase two. He's always coming, wanting more things to work on, wanting more things regarding fundamentals, timing, understanding the scheme. He's hungry for more.

[Jason Whitlock]

Love the hunger for Jalen Hurts. MVP season loading. Perhaps. We'll see. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. This is Rob Parker, and I'm here with an important public service announcement. Whatever you do, do not listen to the Paulie and Tony Fusco show. Fox Sports Radio asked me to do a promo, but I'm here to do a no mo, as in don't listen to this show no more. The host of two fools from Philly who have the dumbest takes ever in all of sports talk. And you know, if I'm saying that, they must really be bad. I have no idea why Fox Sports Radio picked this up, but I know where to put it. Down in the trash can. So please don't listen to the Paulie and Tony Fusco show. No way, no how. And, Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

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[Jason Whitlock]

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[Jason Whitlock]

Holdings Brokerage Services by Public Investing Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors SEC Registered Advisor Crypto Services by ZeroHash all investing involves risk of loss. See complete [e-mail] disclosures let's bring in James Palmer. There he is, looking dapper as usual. Thanks for joining us on a Memorial Day. You've been all over the Jalen Hurt stuff in Philadelphia. I'm perplexed by it. I mean, Super Bowl MVP Jalen Hurts. Is he the most disrespected quarterback in the league? James?

[James Palmer]

You know, I think there could be an argument for it, Jason. Honestly, there could be. We were talking in the break, Andy Reid told me after Jalen lost to the Chiefs in that first super bowl meeting, it's the best super bowl performance he's ever seen anyone ever play. And when the stage gets big, Jalen Hurts usually comes through. It's just a very interesting media market. I'm from Philadelphia. My dad was part of that media covering the Eagles back in the day. I understand what goes on in that city. And I do think the reason we're going over this in this year is a lot of the guaranteed money is done. They went through this offense coordinator search. Honestly, I would almost say without Jalen, it was what's best for the Philadelphia Eagles, what's best for our organization moving forward. And from ownership on down, they kind of wanted this system, this scheme, this McVeigh, this Shanahan type of style. And on paper, it doesn't fully fit the way Jalen Hurts plays. So I think that plays into the narrative as well. Now, Nick Sirianni has always put his spin on things. I think him and Sean Manion will do that and maybe cater some of it towards obviously the way Jalen plays. But you go in the draft and all of this. What I'm saying, Jason, honestly ties into why people are saying this is your first two picks are a wide receiver in Makai Lemon that plays in the middle of the field. It's Eli Stowers, a tight end that's essentially a big wide receiver that plays between the hashes. Where does Jalen Hurts not really throw the football very well, like between the hashes. It's almost like the organization is going, this is how we want to play football. We think Jalen can do all of these things, but on paper, they maybe don't really fully connect with Jalen's strengths. Now, there's a lot Hertz can do on the football field, which is why Sean Manion, you saw earlier there, was kind of raving about the way that Jalen Hurts works. I've always been told this. I think this is the biggest part. If Jalen fully trusts it he will evolve and he will change. That's what Sean Manion has to do, is kind of convince Jalen that these are the things we have to do as an organization to be good offensively. And Jalen will buy in if he fully trusts it. And I think that's where we're at because of some of the moves that Philly has made. They look like they're what's in the best interest of the organization moving forward. And maybe on paper, don't fit Jalen, but I would end with this when. When Jalen is doubted, when Jalen is up against it, that's usually when we see the most motivated. Jalen hurts. And to me, I think that bodes actually well for Philadelphia.

[Podcast Advertiser]

So.

[Jason Whitlock]

So you said a lot there. You've been covering the league for a long time. I'm just curious, for a guy who wins super bowl mvp, is it weird for him to have zero input in the offensive coordinator search, or is that. Is that normal?

[James Palmer]

No, I wouldn't say zero. And I would say that they were looking out for where do we go moving forward as an organization? And I think what plays into this as well, Jason, is they moved on from Carson right after that contract and went to Jalen. Like, this is a team that has a general manager that has the ultimate trust from ownership. And I don't think Most of the GMs in this league have what Howie has, which is if we make a mistake, Jalen Rager, we didn't take Justin Jefferson, pivot, get rid of them, move, go somewhere else. Right. Like, you can make those mistakes and turn and change very quickly in Philadelphia, as opposed to a lot of GMs that hold on to players. So you tie that into this as well. Oh, he doesn't have a lot of guaranteed money left. Like, could they pivot off of Jalen Hurts? I think that he did have some input in it, but it was a very, I would say, unique offensive coordinator search with the number of guys that they looked at and where they went in the search and where they ended up in the search as well, honestly. And I think Jalen played a part in that.

[Jason Whitlock]

So you wisely articulated that. They draft two guys for the middle of the field, and they picked up Wicks, the wide receiver from Green Bay. He's not a downfield guy, is he? Over the middle guy?

[James Palmer]

Somewhat. He's. You know, a lot of people think he hasn't tapped into everything that he has in terms of potential. There's some people that actually really like him around the league, and it was kind of like a weird receiver room in Green Bay. Right. It was almost like we don't have a number one. We have a whole group of guys that kind of spread the wealth and people are kind of interested to see what he could be. He might be that three. Honestly, Makai Lemon's kind of slated to be that, too. The guy I would have my eye on, honestly, is devontae Smith. Like, he's had a good off season. He's. He's hit up former wide receivers asking for advice, like he wants to slide into that one. SP and Nick.

[Kevin O'Connor]

Sure.

[James Palmer]

And he told me at the combine, like, we've scratched the surface with devontae Smith. That's it. Like, I think there is so much more to what this guy can do. I would think that be the player that they kind of unlock in this passing off.

[Jason Whitlock]

Okay, so that leaves us with AJ Brown and his June 1st deadline coming up here inside of a week. Let's just. We're taking a gander here. Percentage chance he's on the. The Eagles in a month.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, in a month.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Yeah.

[James Palmer]

I think it's pretty small. And I like that you said a month because you're right. It's Monday, 4 o'. Clock. That's when the financial aspect of this thing changes. Right. And the dead cap monstrous number changes for the Philadelphia Eagles, and they can make a move after 4:00 Eastern on Monday. Now, Howie Roseman has no deadline. That's part of. I think his leverage is he doesn't have to do a deal June 1, he doesn't have to do a deal June 2, he doesn't really have to do a deal at any point, really, up until maybe things could get dicey by the start of training camp. A team wants him in their training camp, right? To start camp, they want AJ Brown. I'm not saying it does take that long, but I'm really laying out what happens. His leverage is this negotiation, in my opinion. Jason is starting up this week, to my understanding, and it's almost like a new negotiation. I think how he's going to pick up the phone because if anybody knows how he operates is he's going to see if there's any other teams out there to do what increase his leverage. The Rams were in this at one point. The Rams were further down the road on a deal than the Patriots have ever been for A.J. brown at one point. Is that something that he rekindles? I don't know if that's exactly going to happen, but I think he tries to See if he can increase his leverage to increase his compensation. Because the Patriots leverage is this, hey, we're the only team in play here. So you know, what do you want from us? And so that's exactly where this thing stands right now with AJ Brown is how he's trying to increase his leverage and seeing how much compensation he can get for a player that he thinks he maybe deserves a one for. We'll see. There's been reports out there he'll get a one for A.J. we'll see if that actually happens.

[Jason Whitlock]

So besides the Patriots and the Rams, is there a sleeper team out there who maybe people aren't talking about? You know, the Raiders wide receiver room is terrible. Fernando Mendoza, rookie quarterback. Maybe they don't make a move. What about a team like, I don't know, the Chargers have a lot of good. But like you said with the, with the packers don't really have a number one. Chargers are a Super bowl contender. What about the Texans? You know, I gotta ask you about the Texans. I mean, James, like, you know, Nico Collins missed the playoff game. They got no offense. I don't know, is there someone else out there that we should keep an eye on?

[James Palmer]

I think how he's going to try to find that team because he can play them against New England now. I think there are some, some teams that would possibly be interested. They were going to wa this out and like I said, almost be a new negotiation. So you can find out who else could potentially come back in post draft, post free agency. I think this is kind of holding up what's happening with some of those other veteran wide receivers. Like you look at what AJ is going to get paid and what you might have to give up for AJ you could get Stefan Diggs for much less and no compensation. I think the rest of the receiver group is kind of being, you know, held up a little bit by this deal possibly. And maybe we see somebody like Stevon Diggs on the move after this or somebody else because of where AJ stands. But you know, I do think how he's going to try to uncover that team. I don't know if there's another one. It still seems like all arrows are pointing to New England. It just really feels that way. But I do think how he needs to try to create as much leverage as he can. So he's going to be one, maybe even making the calls right now.

[Jason Whitlock]

All right, indulge me because I said it and it did good numbers on social media. Is there a world where Miles Garrett in Cleveland who just Got a renegotiated his deal or readjusted the contract. And famously, as coach last week was like, I haven't talked to Miles. Is there a world where Miles Garrett goes to the Eagles? Remember, they lost his name on the edge, Jalen Phillips, and it's like, hey, we can upgrade our defense. I don't know. Is there any world where Miles Garrett's moved? Man, you're crazy. I've heard that before.

[James Palmer]

I could say, Jason, you're crazy. Yeah, but I like to entertain these things just like you do. You know what I mean? I'm always in my head starts going a little bit because you look at where Cleveland is and you look at where Miles is in his career and where he is with age and what the roads he's gone down before about wanting to play elsewhere. I do think in Philadelphia you brought that up. I just say real quickly, I think there's a lot of people that believe the Jonathan Bernard move was, like, outstanding in terms of what they had to pay and what they ended up doing after they lost out on Jalen Phillips. So I do think Philly's in a. In a decent spot now. Nobody's in the category of. Of Miles Garrett by any stretch, but I do think, if you want to, there's a lot of people that do believe. If you want to fully just start this rebuild in Cleveland. What can you get for Miles Is definitely a question that I would be surprised. Has never come up inside that building.

[Jason Whitlock]

All right, let's pivot to Lamar Jackson real quick. What's his relationship with the new OC who has never called plays? Lamar wants a new contract. He's got a brand new coach in Jesse Minter who's never been a head coach. And oh, by the way, Vegas loves his team. Eleven and a half win total. I'm trying to justify it, but I'm missing something. What's the word out of Baltimore?

[James Palmer]

Yeah, I know a lot of people were curious about him missing a couple of OTAs. I would say this, his attendance has been far better than it's been in years past. And the part that really stands out to me, Jason, honestly, is, and I feel like this hasn't been talked about enough. I was told his relationship with Jesse Minter from when Jesse was obviously on the defensive side of the ball, but there from 2017 to 2020, they actually had like a pretty good relationship with one another. And that's not usually common, right. With a defensive backs coach or assistant on the defensive side having a good relationship with the starting quarterback. But they actually had that. And I think that has carried over into this new regime with Jesse now being the head coach. And I mean, this guy is a star. Like everybody I talk to when the Chargers organizations, like he walks into a room, it just changes. And so Jesse has that bravado to him. He has that relationship with Lamar. Lamar's been there for a ton of workouts. Usually when he's in Florida during that time, he's been a leader in a sense. But you're right, I think every rep does matter. With a guy like Declan Doyle coming in who's never called plays, I would expect some carryover like it went from Greg Roman to Todd Monke, some of that option stuff in the, in the gun and the way they operate there. But I think there's a lot of pressure on Lamar. There is. Every year with as disappointing as the year was, with the contract that is looming with the injuries that he sustained, he's going to join these other star quarterbacks at 30 years old after this season. And so the style of play has always been a part that everybody questions. And so I do think there's enough talent there and Jesse's a good enough coach. But there's a question mark at the offensive coordinator spot for sure. And that's nothing against Declan Doyle. It's, it's, it's. We have a lot of unknowns, so I do think that, that Lamar's buy in has been there more so maybe than in years past. And I think his previous relationship with Jesse hasn't been talked about enough.

[Jason Whitlock]

Yeah.

[Podcast Advertiser]

All right.

[Jason Whitlock]

We could wrap up James with Fernando Mendoza, a guy I love. I'm a huge fan. Everybody likes this guy. I'm just not really into this whole. We'll, we'll start Kirk Cousins and bring you along slowly. I know it's been done before. I'm just curious your thoughts. Cousins taking all the reps in practice, Mendoza saying, I'm not going to the White House. I don't want to be at this rookie event. I want to be at practice. Who's your best guess? It's. I know it's May who, who's going to win the starting job week one.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, I still think it's Kirk and it's for these reasons. I started my career covering the Houston Texans as a beat reporter. And Clint's father, Gary was a head coach there and I knew Gary very, very well. And Clint and the entire family, obviously that's in the NFL, honestly. And they all believe that sitting a quarterback to start his career is what's best. And there's another man in that building that sat at the start of his career and thinks the same way in Tom Brady.

[Jason Whitlock]

Not by chance the philosophy exactly.

[James Palmer]

But I think Tom does understand the things he gained from that, from that time sitting. I think Tom does understand that a little bit. So when I look at the philosophy of the way that they think, at least listen, you could argue all day and night, right, about which way is right. You learn from getting the bullets live or you sit and you learn. I understand the argument on both of them, but I know where a lot of the beliefs stand with this group. And so I do think you look at the beginning of the schedule as well. And I was looking at this. Weeks 2 through 7 at Chargers Saints, Casey at Patriots, Bills, Rams, like, whew. It's almost like, man, let's let Kirk take those.

[Podcast Advertiser]

But there's a part of this that

[James Palmer]

I, that I do believe they want to see. He's more physically gifted and talented than Kirk is. No slight to Kirk Cousins, but that's just the fact. Let's go watch Kirk win with his mind because we need you to win with your mind. And Kirk knows the system. He can teach the system. He can coach this system. So let's have you learn from that guy. Now, I will say this. He has been better than advertised from what I've been told. Mendoza has been outstanding. And if anybody in a hotel with the rest of the players will let him take snaps and work with him in the team hotel, he's forcing them to do it. The work ethic has been off the charts. I mean, I'm not joking. It's like in the hallway of the team hotel tell, he's taking snaps and working on his under center drop backs. And that's the main focus. It's like every rep that happens, it's Clint, it's the rest of the offensive staff around him. How do we get this thing going? If there's anybody that can pick up steam very, very quickly, I think it is Fernando Mendoza. But I do think they have a certain plan in place. I think Fernando would have to blow that up from the way he plays throughout the course of camp and preseason to change their thinking. And that's possible, right? That's possible. But I think he'd have to go above and beyond.

[Jason Whitlock]

All right. Great stuff. James Palmer, insider at Bleacher Report. Man, awesome. Enjoy your Memorial Day weekend. And great stuff as always, James.

[James Palmer]

You too, man. Appreciate it. Good seeing you.

[Jason Whitlock]

Excellent stuff. I love this Fernando Mendoza in The hallway taking snaps at a hotel. What a guy. All right, let's go to Rachel Nichols with the news. No, no, no.

[James Palmer]

Turn on the news.

[Jason Whitlock]

This is the Herdline news.

[Rachel Nichols]

Kind of reminds me of the Wempy stuff, right? I mean, it's a little bit going to a monastery in the off season. I mean, you can tell when a guy cares or not. Fernando Mendoza cares. All right, Jason, I know you like to bet. They know you like to bet. The Knicks, two and a half point favorites tonight versus the Cavaliers. New York, of course, has won 10 straight playoff games. Really? Since the fourth quarter of game one, they've dominated this series. So who wins game four tonight?

[Jason Whitlock]

Knicks 109, Cavs 96.

[Rachel Nichols]

Whoa.

[Jason Whitlock]

So I'll go Knicks win and cover cat. James Harden's gonna be leading the Cancun chants in the huddle. He's already. He's already got the DA baby on speed dial. The private jet gassed up. They're ready to hit Cancun.

[Rachel Nichols]

I mean, look, Jalen Brunson is one of the most clutch players I have ever seen. And it's not just that he's clutch in the last five minutes of the game, like the statistic that they say he's clutching fourth quarter. So you always see him sort of know in the fourth quarter what's important, how to close the game. This is the fourth quarter of this series, right? So I think he is going to have the Knicks hungry, ready to go. They know the rest that they could get if they win this game tonight. And there's always the, hey, the Cavs don't want to be embarrassed at home. They want to at least. At least get one, make it a gentleman's sweep. I don't know, man. I'm not sure this Cavs team has shown they don't want to be embarrassed. I just. It's. It's. It's been rough. It's not been a great playoffs for them.

[Jason Whitlock]

If you want the Cavs, take Cavs first half. By the way, they're eight and nine in the playoffs. Rachel losing record in playoffs.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, it's not good. So I don't know. All right, Anthony Edwards, I want to. I want to know where you were in the story at the time. You remember, he caught some flack for the way he congratulated the spurs bench. There's eight minutes remaining in the game. Now, that game did wrap up the whole series. It wasn't just one random game, but it was very unusual, and there's a lot of criticism for it. Ant sort of explained afterward that he didn't want to see them celebrate the series win on his floor. He wanted to just duck off the bench after that. So he did it then. I don't know. And then he gave another explanation today on the podcast on his YouTube channel. Take a listen.

[Jason Whitlock]

I didn't want to go dap them up at all. Like, then what they would have been saying about me, like, that would have

[Kevin O'Connor]

been a whole nother conversation.

[James Palmer]

I gave them the respect they deserve, man.

[Jason Whitlock]

Like, I could have waited to the

[James Palmer]

end of the game.

[Jason Whitlock]

That's what. That's other people perspective. But, yeah, I did what I did. That's why I'm me and y' all are whoever y' all are.

[Rachel Nichols]

All right. You're whoever y' all are. What do you think, Jason? What did you think at the time?

[Jason Whitlock]

I just want to know why Anthony Edwards is recording a podcast, a stream in, like, a police interrogation room. Bro, can you get some pictures on the wall? Like, dress it up a little bit?

[Rachel Nichols]

Jason, come on.

[Jason Whitlock]

What's going on? I thought it was weird in the moment, Rachel. I didn't know what to make of it because, frankly, I'd never seen it before, and I know Stan Van Gundy didn't love it, and I kind of leaned toward not loving it, but I can't kill Anthony Edwards. He's a great player. I don't know what his team. I'd be more curious what his teammates thought about it. Bro, what are you doing? It's never over until the final buzzer. It's never.

[Rachel Nichols]

I mean, it was kind of over, dude. I think they were losing by 33.

[Jason Whitlock]

I thought it was like, 20. If it was 33. Okay, 5. 5. Yeah.

[Rachel Nichols]

The spurs were up 33 at that point.

[Jason Whitlock]

Pablo will say this. If it's 30 or more, that's cool. I'll understand it.

[Rachel Nichols]

And, you know, he already knew he wasn't going back in, so his series was over. Look, Dirk Nowitzki said after the game, I think that, you know, as he gets more maturity, more time in the league, he'll kind of do this differently. If you want to do this in the final minute, right? Or a minute and a half before the game's over, and be like, yeah, I just want to race off. And as he said in that video, you guys would have killed me if I didn't congratulate them, that's fine. Eight minutes. It's just disrespectful to the role players that are out on the floor, even though everyone knows the series is over. But I don't know. I think as much as he's defending it because he's ant and he's sort of like, whatever I do, that's a good thing to do, which I respect. I think, I don't think he'll do it again. This is my take. All right, let's end with the NFL and look, if hindsight is 20 20, this is 4020 right on. The Vikings, when they let go of Sam Darnold, obviously signed with Seattle, went on to win a Super bowl, while the Vikings hopeful quarterback of the future, J.J. mcCarthy, he struggled mightily in his 10 starts. But here's the thing. Darnold was asked, did you think that was a good decision? And you had expect most players to be like, yeah, they should never have traded. They should never have gotten rid of me. I proved them wrong. He didn't say that. Take a listen to what he said.

[James Palmer]

I totally understand the move to go with the younger quarterback on a rookie deal and signing these veteran players that you can maybe pay a little bit more while he's on his rookie deal. Especially if you believe it.

[Kevin O'Connor]

The, the business side of it.

[Jason Whitlock]

Yeah, the business side of it.

[James Palmer]

I totally understand. And like, I think JJ's a good player. I think he's going to be a

[Jason Whitlock]

really good player in this league.

[James Palmer]

I truly believe that.

[Jason Whitlock]

Damn.

[Rachel Nichols]

Look, I'm in the era of appreciating when guys are just genuine. Right. We had like a lot of flashy, swaggy, snark era of athletes, and now it feels like, you know, again, Wemby, very straightforward. Fernando Mendoza, very straightforward. Sam Darnold, very straightforward guy. And so he's on control. Do the whole, you should never have done it. That being said, if you had been the GM at the time, Jason, no hindsight, what decision would you have made?

[Jason Whitlock]

I would rather answered. Did you like what Sam did?

[Rachel Nichols]

No, did, did you like him winning a Super Bowl? Jason, come on.

[Jason Whitlock]

Yeah, I don't ask those questions. That's, it's tough. I mean, I, I, I trust Kevin OConnell. I'm sorry, I, I, I, I, I, I don't know. I saved earlier. Was it fluky? Now it doesn't look fluky. At the time, it kind of sort of did. I mean, I, yeah, I know that's not a great answer, but his answer was more mature than mine.

[Rachel Nichols]

No, no, no, I think that's totally right. And look, McCarthy had a lot of momentum behind him, right? I mean, there was a time we looked at him and we said, oh, my God. Yeah. This connection he has with his receivers, he's going to be great. Get rid of out with the old a guy who hasn't succeeded, you know, in some great way at his previous stop. So I think he's right. Look, you gotta play the odds if you're a front office and sometimes again, you the gambler, you know you're gonna get burnt, right?

[Jason Whitlock]

And they did.

[Kevin O'Connor]

Yeah.

[Rachel Nichols]

So I don't know. All right, I'm expecting big money from you on the Knicks tonight and we'll see tomorrow how you did.

[Jason Whitlock]

Yes, Rachel with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by. The herd lie news one more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app search heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

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[Jason Whitlock]

holdings brokerage services by public investing member FINRA SIPC advisory services by public advisors SEC registered advisor crypto services by ZeroHash. All investing involves risk of loss. See complete [e-mail] disclosures great NBA intel. Host of the Kevin O' Connor Show. Kevin, how you doing, my man?

[Kevin O'Connor]

I'm doing excellent. How about you today, Jason?

[Jason Whitlock]

I'm happy the spurs won last night. Nick's about to close it out tonight. You know, I know we're in the business of not having, you know, fandom, but I'm partial. You know, we make picks. I. I had Nick spurs at the beginning of the playoffs. I'm feeling good, but I don't know what, what are you seeing on the spurs last night? I mean, if A.J. mitchell and J Dub don't show up up, who's bailing these guys out?

[Kevin O'Connor]

I mean, look, that's the key to it, right? No A.J. mitchell, no Jalen Williams. It's really just all on Shay Gilders Alexander to create. We saw the spurs earlier in the series. The first three games, they're trapping SGA more outside, sending two at him and pick and roll. And they're playing a lot more one on one with him in that game for last night. And the difference in production for the Thunder led to less catch and shoot opportunities, less open catch and shoot opportunities. SGA was not nearly as effective on his drive to the basketball basket. And throughout this series, it just, it kind of blows my mind, Jason. Like this is a MVP nominee battle. Obviously SGA wanted and kind of a landslide. I was one of the the 10 WEMBY voters. But it's just, it's amazing to see Wemby just change everything about who SGA is because during the regular season and during the whole playoffs, he took 25% of his shots inside of the restricted area. That's down to 12%.

[Jason Whitlock]

Wow.

[Kevin O'Connor]

In this series, when Wemby is on the floor. He's turning him into a DeMar DeRozan pull up mid range shooter. And that's just with his presence alone. It just. It's baffling to see a player like SGA unable to figure this out. But it really speaks to Wemby's greatness on the defensive end of the floor and the spurs game plan as a whole.

[Jason Whitlock]

Yeah, that stat makes me wonder. SGA seems to be resorting to a lot of flopping. One of your colleagues had an amazing breakdown of how often SGA hits the floor. I mean, it's weird, like the games are good, but the day after the autopsy, all it is, social media is, look at all these flops by SGA and McCain and Isaiah. And it's like it's not a good look for the league. I wonder, is this heightened? I mean, he's been doing this. We've been calling him the free throw merchant for a while, but this seems like it's getting excessive now. I wonder if it's because he can't get to his spots.

[Kevin O'Connor]

Look, I think there's two sides of it. The Thunder do complain more. I think they try to work the officials more almost sometimes with like a smile on their face right when they try to do it. A little bit of manipulation tactic that way rather than just outwardly crying about it like you see Luca do and other stars have done over the years. And SGA definitely does embellish and fall more often than others. That said, all of that said, it's not like the Thunder are outliers in free throw rate this entire postseason. They're not being rewarded with it with this flopping and flailing around. So on one hand I agree that I would rather he not fall so often, but stars have done this a lot over the years. And so look, I'm kind of in the middle here. I. I think it's a bit overblown. There's a little bit of TDS Thunder derangement syndrome with this here, but ultimately, Jason, I think it's a bit overblown more than anything else with their falling rate being as middling as it is.

[Jason Whitlock]

Well, I guess the only counter would be. Listen, in the regular season, what a million people? Maybe 500, 000. A million. Maybe 2 million people watching big games. You're drawing like 10 million people now. A lot of new people are checking this out and they're like, wait, what's going on? Why is he falling down all the time? And it does seem. I. I think a lot of Casuals are popping in and being like, what the hell's going on?

[Kevin O'Connor]

I mean, look, I know Yovon Bua was on the show earlier today and he talked about kind of like you should enforce the rules more often if you could get suspended for your 20th flop or whatever.

[Jason Whitlock]

I love that.

[Kevin O'Connor]

And look, that. That's what I all about. To me, like, I think tanking is an abomination and good on the NBA for trying to get rid of that. But flopping is also an abomination and that's what the NBA needs to focus on next. And ultimately you have to do that by enforcing the existing rules already that they have. You can penalize players for flopping. But also, I think it needs to be a more severe penalty when players do this to get it out of the game. Because when I talk to, you know, casual fans of basketball who tune in at the start of the playoffs, just like you said, 10 million people will watching these games, a lot of them for the first time all year, to make them hardcore NBA fans, the product needs to improve. And plays like that, where SGA is barely getting breathed on and he's falling to the floor, that needs to come with a heavy fine as a result of that to get it out of the game and make sure it becomes something that's a negative for your team instead of being rewarded.

[Jason Whitlock]

All right, let's move to Chet Holmgren. His vanishing act against Wemby. Embarrassing. He got named third team all NBA. We won't talk about where your vote was, but listen, Chet has been an abomination. 11 points per game, 46% shooting in this series. Listen, you could cook Jackson Hayes all you want. Last round, there's a different story. It looks like he doesn't want the smoke against Wimy.

[Kevin O'Connor]

Chad holmgren has taken 24 shots in this series when Victor Weyama has been on the floor. Only six of them. He has dribbled the ball. Only six.

[James Palmer]

He.

[Kevin O'Connor]

And he hasn't gotten into the paint for those either. He is afraid of getting into the paint and understandably so against Victor Wenyama. But the fact is it's just a lot of sloppy creation abilities. And we can talk about me having Chad on my third team all NBA. He was an excellent defensive player. He's a great finisher. He's a great finisher. Catch and shoot lobs, pick and roll, cuts to the rim. But against this spurs team, when you're without a Jalen Williams and without AJ Mitchell, SGA needs more support and more creation around him. And we're seeing the limitations of Chet Holmgan right now exactly at the moment that they need it most. And so yes, I think he was rightfully voted third team all NBA during the regular season, but he would not be on one of my my first or second and definitely not my third team all NBA for all playoffs.

[Jason Whitlock]

Oh yeah, playoffs. Different story. All right, let me one more question. Steph Castle is my guy. I I'm the champion of the Steph Castle fan club. I think what he's done on on SGA has been incredible. I know there were a lot of turnovers early. Fox comes back, only two turnovers in the last two games. Is he like sneaky one of the best young two way players in the league?

[Kevin O'Connor]

Oh, without a doubt. No doubt about it. I think with Seth Castle he was just overburdened with his role in those first two games of the series. 20 turnovers with no Darren Fox, only two turnovers in games three and four combined. That's in part because Fox returned and is helping alleviate that responsibility off of him. But I think you also get Castle credit. Just feels like there's no number for this. But just watching the games it seems like he's slowed down a little bit. He's not forcing the issue as much. And isn't that what you want to see young stars do is learn and adapt over the course course of a series? 20 turnovers in games one and two, two turnovers in games three and four. Cade Cunningham with the Pistons never learned that lesson throughout the postseason and that's all you could have hoped for with Detroit. Maybe they'd still be playing if he had. And with Castle, it's good that he did seem to learn that so far in the series against the Thunder.

[Jason Whitlock]

Let me ask you Kevin real quick about the Knicks CAB series. After the Knicks win tonight and sweep the Cavs, I'm just curious, who would they rather? Who do you think they have a better chance against next round? And I'm just going to go ahead and guess Mitchell and J Dub are not coming back back.

[Kevin O'Connor]

I would lean Thunder considering the fact that as you said, they're hurt, some of their key players are injured and I know the spurs have their own issues with the Aaron Fox and we'll see if he can deal with that ankle moving forward. But we know Jaylen Williams has suffered the hamstring issue multiple times already. We know calf injuries are hard to come back from and AJ Mitchell is key to the Oklahoma City Thunder. And the other thing I'd add, Jason, that stat I mentioned earlier about how much. We've seen Victor Wembanyama just completely change who Gildas Alexander is and how he operates on the floor. I don't want to face that guy. I don't want to face Wembanyama. And no, he's going to change everything about who we are as an offense and everything about who we can try to be as a defense as well. So if I'm the Knicks, I. It's crazy to say, but I'd rather the Thunder, given where they are today, than I would rather see the spurs.

[Jason Whitlock]

We got 45 seconds left. Give me a sleeper team for Giannis this summer. I'll float to you something that the effect of the Clippers could offer the fi. The fifth pick and Ben Matherin. By the way, the fifth pick is better than anything OKC is going to give you. But anything for. For Giannis. Sleeper.

[Kevin O'Connor]

Oh, look, I, I think Clippers would have been my initial answer, the obvious answer for sure. But I, I would say Sleeper would have to be. And they were mentioned earlier today, the Wizards, just considering the fact they have 80, 80 probably doesn't want to be there in Washington. They're a salary match deal. And if you're the Wizards, I don't think you'd have to give up that number one pick to do it considering all the other future draft capital they have to put on the table.

[Jason Whitlock]

You think?

[Kevin O'Connor]

Doesn't make any sense.

[Jason Whitlock]

Whoa, that's breaking my brain. We'll have to wrap up on that. Kevin o'. Connor. Great stuff. Check out his Kevin o' Connor show podcast. Obviously. Yahoo Sports. That was. That was a whopper to end on. Kevin. Thank you.

[Kevin O'Connor]

Thanks, Jason.

[Jason Whitlock]

All right, good stuff. Oh my gosh. My brain is a. So you don't give up the number one pick and you bring on Giannis because they have a lot of draft capital down the road. Does Giannis want to play with AJ debona? And is Jordan Pool still in? I. I don't know. Well, well, Rachel and I'll have to talk about that tomorrow. We're running short on time here, but a good great Monday in the books. Amazing guests, great topics. Rachel was on fire, folks. Listen, Knicks wrap it up tonight. Cavs off season. It begins tomorrow.

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[Jason Whitlock]

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