THE HERD – HOUR 3 – Lakers Don’t Stack Up In The Western Conference

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode: Lakers Don’t Stack Up In The Western Conference (Hour 3)

Date: June 24, 2026

Host(s): Colin Cowherd, Jason McIntyre

Guest: Bruce Feldman

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the shifting landscape of the NBA with a special focus on the Los Angeles Lakers' inability to compete with top Western Conference teams, the surprising Jalen Brunson narrative, and key takeaways from the NBA Draft. The discussion also expands into recent college football drama—including the NFL’s response to issues of athlete gambling—and a thoughtful breakdown of how NIL (Name, Image, Likeness) and the transfer portal are transforming college sports. Guest Bruce Feldman provides insights on college football, particularly Notre Dame's surprising approach to NIL, and the future of various powerhouse programs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. NBA Finals Fallout: Jalen Brunson & Becky Hammon Debate

Segment Start: [09:47]

• Becky Hammon’s Comments about Jalen Brunson:
  • Hammon had previously claimed that Brunson was “too small” to lead the Knicks to a championship.
  • She refused to fully walk back her statement despite Brunson’s Finals MVP performance and the Knicks’ victory.
• Panel Reaction:
  • Jason McIntyre suggests Hammon’s view is “historically right”, noting historically NBA champions build around bigger players.
  • Colin Cowherd counters that Brunson’s rise is exceptional given his draft position and the doubts:

    “Sam Darnold was a top five pick... Brunson was a second round pick who the Mavs didn’t even want to pay $55 million to. So he was too small. He proved everyone wrong, built around him.” ([11:36], Colin)

  • General consensus: Brunson remains an outlier; still, the entire league (and even his own dad) was surprised.
  • Discussion of outliers: Only four Finals MVPs 6’2” or shorter in 36 years—Brunson, Curry, Parker, and Isaiah Thomas.

    “There’s been four ever six two or shorter in the history of the sport. I think that feels like an outlier to me.” ([14:05], Jason)

  • Tone is light, with debate over whether an apology is owed or simply an acknowledgment of being wrong.

2. NBA Draft Analysis & Clipper Optimism

Segment Start: [14:38]

• Keaton Wagler to Clippers at #5:
  • Praised as an “awesome pick,” with potential to pair brilliantly with Darius Garland.
  • Audio clip from the player:

    “It’s just all the hard work that I put in... just staying true to myself... just continue to work hard and prove myself, to show that I can play at this level.” ([15:03], Wagler)

  • Jason describes Wagler as possibly having “the best range in Los Angeles”—better than Luka Doncic. Needs to get stronger, but “great potential star.”
• Clipper Roster Outlook:
  • Healthy Kawhi is key.
  • Bigs are a question: Lopez is “like 47 years old,” John Collins needs to step up.
  • Fun anecdote: Wagler was an underrated three-star recruit only three years ago, now he’s proven himself—drawing a parallel to Brunson.
• Austin Reaves Contract Saga:
  • Reaves re-signs with Lakers for 4 years/$185M, despite a strong push from Detroit.
  • Both believe Reaves would have been a “really nice number two scorer” in Detroit.

    “Detroit has to kind of pivot now to Kyrie Irving. We’ll see what the Lakers do.” ([17:20], Colin)

  • Lakers have defensive holes after losing Marcus Smart; concerns about expecting young players (like Cameron Carr) to step up immediately.

3. NFL & NCAA: Gambling, Accountability, and Sorsby Controversy

Segment Start: [17:42]

• Brendan Sorsby & NFL Supplemental Draft:

  • Sorsby lost NCAA eligibility due to gambling; the NFL declined to offer a supplemental draft “life preserver.”

    “The NFL said, we’re not sending you a life preserver. You’re on your own. You bet the sport that we don't allow to be bet.” ([17:42], Colin)

  • Bruce Feldman agrees with NFL’s hard stance, citing the importance of accountability and privilege.

• Litigation & Powerful Attorneys:

  • Sorsby’s attorney, Jeffrey Kessler, may try to sue the league, but the chances are slim and possibly counterproductive.

    “Nobody’s really heard Sorsby speak...it's all these people lobbying on his behalf...feels like somebody is trying to get out of the accountability part of this.” ([20:41], Feldman)

• College Football’s Uprising:

  • Noted rarity of the entire sport uniting against the Sorsby case, despite NCAA’s usually low sympathy.
  • Gambling in college sports as a test of universal boundaries and enforcement.

4. NIL, The Transfer Portal, and Notre Dame’s Surprising Rise

Segment Start: [24:32]

• Notre Dame’s Committed Approach:

  • Defies assumptions by embracing NIL, competes with college football’s biggest spenders (contradicting expectations they’d be conservative due to tradition/academics).

    “Notre Dame is a powerhouse lacrosse program. They’ve been very smart...in terms of...business leaders and the financial people who have made the connections and leverage those.” ([25:33], Feldman)

  • Marcus Freeman gets high praise for recruiting, evaluating, and building balanced rosters packed with “next-level athletes.”

    “Feels like it’s only a matter of time before Marcus Freeman leads them to a national title…” ([27:50], Feldman)

  • Notre Dame now fields generational talents at running back and cornerback, with lower attrition rates and high program stability.

• NIL & Transfer Portal:

  • Colin and Jason agree: NIL and older transfer-heavy teams raise the level of play and TV ratings.
  • NIL isn’t perfect but does more good than harm—lets athletes make money and develop further before turning pro.

    “What NIL has done was allow these kids to go back to school and make legitimate money so that they're not making mistakes. They can actually develop more. They can increase their draft stock while making really good money.” ([36:37], Feldman)

  • Concerns about gambling in college sports cited as inevitable—coaches are watching their own players.

5. Closing Thoughts: Imperfection & Accountability in Sports

Segment Start: [33:17]

• Seeking Perfection is Pointless:

  • Cowherd lampoons “longevity specialists” and parallels flaws in NIL and the transfer portal to broader life lessons—it’s not about being perfect, it’s about adapting and doing better.

    “If you're seeking perfection, it's just a miserable place to be… just try to squeeze the juice you can out of every employee.” ([36:59], Jason)

  • Realism about financial sources: TV and gambling money mean “everyone has enough”—claims of financial woes in college sports are mostly posturing.

• Final Words on Sorsby:

  • Cowherd concludes Sorsby needs to take responsibility, clean up his act, and try again, decrying efforts to litigate one’s way back to eligibility.
  • Bruce Feldman quietly hopes Sorsby gets his life together, recognizing addiction and the need for boundaries.

    “You kind of behaved your way out of the opportunity to bet the rest of your life.” ([42:47], Jason)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “He proved everyone wrong, built around him.” ([11:36], Colin, re: Jalen Brunson)
• “There’s been four ever six two or shorter in the history of the sport. I think that feels like an outlier to me.” ([14:05], Jason)
• “The NFL said, we're not sending you a life preserver. You’re on your own.” ([17:42], Colin, on Sorsby)
• “It just feels like somebody is trying to get out of the accountability part of this.” ([20:41], Feldman)
• “Feels like it’s only a matter of time before Marcus Freeman leads [Notre Dame] to a national title…” ([27:50], Feldman)
• “If you're seeking perfection, it's just a miserable place to be…” ([36:59], Jason)

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Segment Timestamps for Key Topics

• [09:47] NBA Finals, Jalen Brunson, Becky Hammon debate
• [14:38] NBA Draft, Keaton Wagler/Clippers analysis
• [17:42] NFL Supplemental Draft & Brendan Sorsby discussion
• [24:32] NIL, transfer portal, college football, Notre Dame focus
• [33:17] Seeking perfection, NIL impact, college sports financial reality
• [41:27] Closing anecdotes, Sorsby’s future, life advice

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Tone & Style

The show maintains its casual and combative tone, with plenty of back-and-forth, teasing, and sharp opinions. While deeply opinionated, the panel approaches issues with nuance, humor, and perspective grounded both in sports history and current trends.

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This summary captures the breadth of the discussion, highlights for sports fans, and valuable insights for listeners seeking a deep dive into contemporary sports debates.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Tony Ayo]

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on FOX Sports radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

[Tony Ayo]

Now let's get this party started.

[Jason McIntyre]

You're listening FOX Sports Radio. Bruce Feldman's around the corner. Jeff Goodman was really good today. Basketball stuff from the draft. I like AJ Devonce a lot, but the Washington Wizards, I think they've, they've been in four playoff series in 40 years or one four playoff series in 40 years. It's very Cleveland Browns. I can like the GM, Michael Winger, Andrew Barry, but when you draft a guy, that's just the start, right? Like that. It's like going to college. You can have a great first semester. Like, like what do you look like in four years? Do you have your degree? You're going to get offered a lot of enticements and parties. Do you keep your act together your first, your first semester in college? You're bearing down. You know it's going to be hard. What's your junior year look like? What's your, are you getting guidance, the right tutors, the right profs, the right major, or you just gonna get through it and get into sales? Like that's the thing. You draft a guy and you're gonna surround him with Trae Young? Come on. I mean, they could have gotten out of the Trae Young business in a year. Instead they doubled down on him and they're committed to four with a contract. I don't think you can move Anthony Davis kind of motivated not. Not really in his prime he was hit and miss on that. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. Hey, it's Cavino and Rich from Fox Sports. Now, in addition to hearing us live weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, we're excited to announce a brand new YouTube channel for the show. Yup, that's right. You can now watch Covino enrich live on YouTube every day. All you gotta do search Covino Enrich FSR on YouTube again. Go to YouTube search Covinoenrich FSR. Check us out on YouTube. Subscribe hit that thumbs up icon and comment away.

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[Jason McIntyre]

You know what deserves more attention? The assists. Everybody talks about the goal. A big moment that gets replayed on the highlight reels. But too often we overlook all the contributions and collabs that happen along the way. That's true in soccer and honestly true in life. Halion is shining a light on the assists. As official partner of U.S. soccer, they got a whole lineup of brands ready to deliver for you. So here they are. Sensodyne Dentist Recommended Defense of your sensitive teeth Centrum Fueling your day with science backed nutrients. Advil, of course. Powerful Inflammation Fighting Pain relief Voltaren Arthritis Gel helps penetrate deep, keeps the joints moving and tums ready to counterattack with fast heartburn relief. These are brands that are ready to deliver your essential wellness assists because every goal starts with an assist. Learn how Halion can assist your game day [e-mail] consulting this is Tony Ayo

[Tony Ayo]

from the Real Report with Tony Ayo and Uncle Murder. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rent's going up, streaming services are going up. Even your favorite burrito spot suddenly thinks salsa should cost extra. But with Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill don't have to play the Will this go up soon? Game because Boost Mobile has an unlimited talk, text and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for life. Meaning you're set to never worry about your bill increasing again for as long as you're on the plan. While the world keeps finding new ways to nickel and dime you, Boost Mobile gives you unlimited wireless at one set price for life. Imagine something in your budget actually staying the same. You'll pay the same for unlimited wireless when you're posting mirror selfies in your 20s. And when you're posting mirror selfies in retirement. Some things never change. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.

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[Bruce Feldman]

being

[Botox Advertisement Voice]

there for those we love can be so hard for people with chronic migraine 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more Botox Onobotulinum toxin a prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It Prevents on average 8 to 9 headache days a month versus 6 to 7 for placebo. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Botox effects may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as trouble swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness can be signs of a life threatening condition. Those with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions like rash, breathing problems, dizziness, neck and injection site pain and headache. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions like als, Myasthenia gravis or Lambert Eaton syndrome and medicines like botulinum toxins which may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor about Botox. Visit botoxchronicmigraine.com or call 1-844botox J Mac

[Jason McIntyre]

with the news no, no, no, no.

[Tony Ayo]

Turn on the news.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is the Herdline news. Colin we're starting with one of my favorite topics of the NBA Finals that was just completed. And that's Becky Hammond. Surely you know the Las Vegas Aces coach, the one who took all these shots at Jalen Brunson back in 2023 saying he's too small to lead the Knicks to a championship. And He's. He's not a 1A dude. Well, Becky Hammond came into New York yesterday because the Aces were playing and in the pregame just refused to say, hey, I was wrong. Refused to fess up and say I whiffed badly. Jalen Brunson is him. He is that guy. Brunson, of course, became the fourth Finals MVP, six, two or under, in the last 36 years. I don't know if that qualifies as an outlier. I haven't done height measurements of NBA Finals MVPs, but it is a little weird that Hammond was so combative. It's like you, you have a segment dedicated on this show where Colin was wrong. I fess up all the time when I'm wrong. That's what we do. That's our business. For Becky Hammond to come out and like deny that there's. She was wrong. Well, it's just embarrassing.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, it's. Historically, she's right. I mean, in Steph Curry's best team, he had KD on it. And Tony Parker, it should be noted, had Duncan on those teams. Right? So, like, she's right. Historically, you don't build around him. I mean, Steve Nash won MVPs in the regular season, didn't do anything in the postseason. So she's right. Final mvp. I mean, the NBA has always been a long big guy league. It was a center league forever, starting with Bill Russell. So, you know, I, it's. She had an opinion. She's not historically wrong. I mean, like, by the way, outside of me, anybody else thinks Sam Darnold could win a Super Bowl? Does everybody have to apologize to me?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, wait a minute. Sam Darnold was like a top five pick in the draft. You draft guys top five, they're your franchise quarterback. You think that guy can win? Brunson was a second round pick who the Mavs didn't even want to pay $55 million to. So he was too small. He proved everyone wrong, built around him

[Jason McIntyre]

eventually at the end, but he didn't

[Colin Cowherd]

prove that before and he's still in his prime. What?

[Jason McIntyre]

But I'm saying before this playoff run, he didn't look at the Knicks as a championship team. We thought the champ was coming out of the West.

[Colin Cowherd]

Who cares about how we viewed them? It's. They actually won, right?

[Jason McIntyre]

No, it does matter how you view him because she's an opinionist based on how we view them. Her comment was based on history and what we'd seen from him. He did not look Like a elite Finals mvp. If I'd have said a year ago, jalen Brunson takes over the league. Not Wemby, not sga, not Jokic, not Janik. Nobody thought that. By the way, Brunson's dad acknowledged he didn't think that.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, he also thinks Patrick Ewing is the greatest Knick, which is laughable. And I'm a Ewing guy with a Ewing jersey at home. But this idea that like Brunson was the most clutch player in the NBA two years ago, is it really that? I mean, are you, you're not still shocked that Brunson was the finals MVP in the Knicks one, are you?

[Jason McIntyre]

Yes, I think the whole league is. I think people in New York were surprised. That's why everybody loved it and embraced it. We didn't see it coming. They were a third seed that struggled matching up with the Pistons in the regular season. Oklahoma City couldn't beat them in the regular season and Atlanta in the first round. Yes, Jason, people were surprised. The entire sport was surprised. His dad was surprised. Everybody was surprised. Again, nobody needs to apologize to me because you guys bagged on Sam Darnold and I didn't. It's opinions.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Tony Ayo]

I don't know.

[Colin Cowherd]

Apology is weird. Apology sounds wrong. Just say you were wrong. It's like politicians now never wanted.

[Jason McIntyre]

I think she did. I saw the quote. She admitted. Yeah, it was wrong. He did it. I mean, you don't need to say the obvious. She was obviously wrong.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

If you thought, if you thought Kamala Harris was going to win Kamala Harris and didn't, then you're obviously wrong. I don't need an apology. Like you were on the wrong side of it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Agree. So now real quick on the word outlier. So Tony Parker, Finals mvp. Curry, Isaiah and Brunson. I don't know, like if Darius Acuff is a Finals MVP in seven years, is that going to be an outlier? I mean, Darius Acuff is an awesome player. I just don't understand outlier in Brunson.

[Jason McIntyre]

I do. There's been four ever six two or shorter in the history of the sport. I think that feels like an outlier to me. And for the record, Brunson was the overwhelming closer on his team. Curry wasn't on his best teams, Parker wasn't on his best teams, Isaiah was. But it was a very deep defensive led team. I mean, Brunson became the fourth quarter scorer on that team. That's a little in the best fourth quarter guy in the league. Again, we're arguing over semantics. It's like what she said is true. I don't need an apology.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right, let's go back to the draft and Keaton Wagler goes to the Clippers at 5. This is an awesome pick. He's going to be paired with Darius Garland in the backcourt for the Paperclips. This is kind of a dangerous team. Kawhi Leonard, obviously his health is going to be heavily dependent on how the season goes. Ben Matherin, I like him a lot. Colin. Here's Wagler, the six' five guard, talking about getting drafted by the Clippers.

[Jason McIntyre]

I think it's just all the hard work that I put in and not worried about what anyone else said. Just staying true to myself and not worrying about the rankings or anything like that. Just, just continue to work hard and prove myself, to show that I can

[Botox Advertisement Voice]

play at this level.

[Jason McIntyre]

It's something that I can't change my mindset with. I got to continue to prove myself, to show everyone that I belong here and can be one of the best players in this league. Gotta get stronger. But Clipper fans, he will have the best range in Los Angeles, including Luka. His range will get better. It's already sensational. That kid can shoot from 27. He has. He is again, he needs to get stronger. He's like 19 years old. He is a great potential star in this league. I love his game.

[Colin Cowherd]

If the Clippers can figure out their big situation, Lopez is like 47 years old. John Collins, they could do some damage.

[Jason McIntyre]

Fun story on Wagler.

[Colin Cowherd]

So yesterday you said Dusty May was at like Florida Atlantic like three years ago. Keaton Wagler was a three star recruit three years ago. Yep, three stars. Underrated. Nobody thought he's. That doesn't really have it. He's not a dog. He's not strong enough. He just proved everybody wrong. Just like Jalen Brunson took Illinois to the Final Four. I love this kid a lot. I, I don't like how he goes to the Clippers, a team I don't usually root for and now I have to like them. Just like OKC got guys who I don't love and I gotta kind of root for them. Final story Con. Let's go to the Austin Reaves contract, much discussed, 4 year, $185 million contract. However, are you ready for this? According to Mark Stein, the Detroit Pistons, who we've been talking about on the show for a couple days, they were hot and heavy for Reaves. They were the team coming on strong after the Bulls and Nets ran out of cap space. And it was basically Austin Reeves could have picked the Pistons or the Lakers. And he went with LA 4 years. 185.

[Jason McIntyre]

I thought Detroit would have been a really interesting fit. I thought that was a. Because they have the defensive capability to kind of have his back. He would have been a really, really nice number two score for them. A play initiator. I thought. I thought the Pistons would have been a great, great fit. And that's why reportedly yesterday when the word got out they wanted to get him sewn up but Detroit should have gone after him. That's. That would have been a really sharp acquisition by the Pistols because you have

[Colin Cowherd]

the Thompson twin on the wing to guard. I mean he's a menace. So he guards their best opposing player. I think Detroit has to kind of pivot now to Kyrie Irving. We'll see what the Lakers do because it sounds like Marcus Smarts probably played his way out of that contract.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

And he was their best defender. I don't think Cameron Carr. You can't expect a 21 year old to come in and defend instantly. We'll see what the Lakers do on

[Jason McIntyre]

the J. Mac with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the herd lie news. Well, the story broke yesterday there was what we presumed to be a supplemental draft which the NFL has no obligation to do. That Brendan Sorsby was a college problem. The NFL said, we're not sending you a life preserver. You're on your own. You bet the sport that we don't allow to be bet football, college or pro. You know, NFL is not going to. Like I said before, your parents have no obligation to send you to summer camp. You can behave your way out of it. And I think the fact that Brendan Sorsby, NFL felt like we don't got a lot of time here. Why offer you a hand when it's messy? How about you figure your life out and in 2027 enter that draft with Arch Manning, great quarterback Dante Moore. So we're not going to, we're not going to throw the life preserver to you. I get it. I'm rooting for the kid. I hope he gets it together. I think he's super talented from the athletic. Bruce Feldman is now joining us live and we appreciate that. Let's start with this. What was your reaction? He's at the Cape. Boy, that's beautiful. What was your reaction to the news,

[Bruce Feldman]

Colin? I thought the NFL did the right thing here. I mean you have a guy who had gambled extensively on college sports among Other things. And because there was one judge in Texas had tried to tell the nca, no, you can't punish him for doing something that everybody else had basically lost their eligibility for. And it caused all this drama and uproar. And I felt like, yes, they talked about his mental health and some of the things he was dealing with, but at some point there was like no accountability in terms of the punishment. And I think the NFL in their wording in the letter they sent source because basically, look, look, we don't have enough time to investigate this. And as you said, I just don't think they felt like, you know what, this is a privilege and what have you done to earn the privilege to get into the supplemental draft? You can just wait till next year's draft, take care of yourself. Which honestly, those things are probably better for him in the long run to see that he can get himself right. The NFL can look into his issues and to see how he's dealing with them and take his chances on that. Or if he wants to, he can try to go up to Canada and play in the CFL or something like that. But again, I think in this regard, I think the NFL did the right thing.

[Jason McIntyre]

He's got a very powerful attorney, Jeffrey Kessler, who has some Trump connection. Trump doesn't like the NFL. He's battled with him. And my take was, well, he could create a dust up here. I think he's better off, you know, trying to sue the league that you want to play in. He's not a member of the nflpa. I mean, what are you making of that story that, hey, I'm going to go against these guys, we could have a lawsuit. That kind of doesn't feel like the right direction for me. How do you view it?

[Bruce Feldman]

Yeah, it's become so litigious in this case where honestly, nobody's really heard Soaresby speak, but it's been all these people lobbying on his behalf. His agent has come out a few times and kind of thrown the blame at other places. And it just, I think one of the things that probably has rubbed a lot of people wrong in this case is it just feels like somebody is trying to get out of the accountability part of this. Right. And whether Jeffrey Kessler, who's a powerful antitrust lawyer and has had a lot of prominent lawsuits over the years, if he can somehow get him back into the supplemental draft, I don't know what's going to be. Obviously, neither one of us, Colin, are lawyers, but I think if somebody's going to go, well, Jeffrey, Kessler is this really powerful attorney with a lot of success. The NFL is very powerful too. And I think at this point is, are they arguing on the side of the NFLPA for a person who's not even part of it? Because you know, what fits in terms of a collective bargaining agreement and what doesn't mean what is the, what is the upshot for source? The end here that he goes into the supplemental draft and teams have their issues with him and he's a third or fourth round pick. I don't know how that would play out. Again, it's a time crunch now, getting this in front of them. I just think if your source be cut your losses, get yourself right or as best you can and try to operate within the system that you've honestly skirted for a while and try to get yourself together because if you want to have a long term NFL career, I think there's got to be showing some level of accountability. Not like, okay, we're going to sue or sue, sue everybody out of this.

[Jason McIntyre]

You know, I said I love college football, but it's always reminded me of boxing. It's every promoter for itself. You know, I mean the SEC will play eight conference games, the Big Ten's nine. I mean it's always been kind of every program for its USC's like, let's get out of this conference, go to the Big Ten. Didn't give Stanford Cal a heads up like, and I'm, it's just the sport. It's every conference for themselves. Everybody. I will say this, the one thing that's impressive, it took Brendan Sorsby to galvanize the entire sport. And Bruce, were you surprised? And we both love the sport, but you and I know that every school's kind of worried about themselves. First, the conference kind of. Second, were you surprised at the sport uprising universally, summarily against this issue? And really he had no defenders at the college level.

[Bruce Feldman]

I was. Because it's almost impossible to make the NCAA seem like a sympathetic figure after all that's gone on. But, but it took this and then. Honestly, Colin, it was the twists and turns of it. I think it was. You had Cody Campbell, the billionaire booster who pops up every Saturday during a college football weekend in these political ads. And I don't, you know, I don't have any beef with Texas Tech trying to act like a blue blood because now they have a big money guy throwing nil money around to try to get them to live in the Texas and Oklahoma kind of world, except they're still in the Big 12, I don't have a problem with that. But I think a lot of people were sitting here going, you know what? This one issue, it's been so cut and dry forever. Now. Obviously, it's complicated now because of all the gambling sites, and it's a lot easier. You know, we see the ads everywhere sponsored by this, sponsored by that. But that still doesn't make it like, okay, where you can bet on games that your teams are playing in and do it extensively. I mean, because if we don't have these rules, you know what, you know, how is this going to work for the rest of college sports? I just don't understand them.

[Jason McIntyre]

I gotta tell you. I think Ohio State, Miami and Notre Dame are my three favorites to win the national championship. And I want to ask you this about the nil. When the NIL hit, my gut feeling was that Notre Dame viewed itself academically and religiously. They would be a little precious on the NIL and didn't want to get their hands dirty. Instead, Clemson is like, no, thanks. And Notre Dame has been super committed to it. And I look at Notre Dame the last couple of years, and I'm like, boy, they can. They've got athletes that can play with anybody. Are you surprised? Now, we both love Marcus Freeman. I think he's terrific. That. That doesn't surprise me. But are you surprised A little bit. It doesn't surprise me. Miami, usc, Texas went all in on nal. Notre Dame has really been competitive. Is. Is among the. The big spenders. That surprises me a little bit. I'm not. I'm not critical of it. I love it. Has it surprised you

[Bruce Feldman]

a little in this regard, Colin? You look at the schools like, Notre Dame is a powerhouse lacrosse program. They've been very smart in how they build it in terms of, like, you know, the business leaders and the financial people who have. Have made the connections and leverage those. And it's a powerhouse. And they won a national title a year ago. And then you look at what on the front end of it, you know, they made some moves. They get Sam Hartman, who was a good quarterback in the acc. You know, you got Riley Leonard, good quarterback, in the ACC for their, you know, the end of their careers in college. But I think what Marcus Freeman and that staff, and he's got a really good staff, do not get enough credit for, is how they've evaluated and the caliber of athletes they brought in. I mean, right now they have a quarterback, our friend Brady Quinn, who knows more about Notre Dame than anybody. I know he's effusive on CJ Carr. I don't think he's wrong. I think he, I don't know if he's the best quarterback in college football, but I'd say he's probably one of the four best. I mean after what we saw from him last year and you look at the caliber of athletes they brought in, you have two first round running backs last year. Jeremiah Love is a generational talent. We've always seen them good on the offensive line and good at tight end. I think you're now you're seeing difference maker guys like Kyle Hamilton, as much as he's like kind of an outlier physically. They have a lot of dudes at all three levels. They have edge rushers, linebackers. You know, Leonard Moore is probably the best cornerback in the country and I think that speaks to Brian Kelly did a really good job at Notre Dame. I think the difference of why they can win national titles now is because Marcus Freeman has been able to, you know, eyeball the kind of guys that honestly he was playing with at Ohio State. Those guys are like next level athletes and I think they have, they have really done a good job of supporting it and leveraging their resources. And I'm not saying they're spending more than Oregon is or some of the Texas Tech is, but I think they're spending it really wisely and I think they've got a really good system going in the way it looks like to me. And I think you're kind of with me on this. Feels like it's only a matter of time before Marcus Freeman leads them to a national title because they are recruiting and evaluating so well.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, and Notre Dame kids generally, if you commit to Notre Dame, their attrition rate is much lower than other schools. Bruce Feldman, College football By the way, I'm not going to tell you where he's at, but I will tell you it doesn't always look like that in January and February. Where he is at is one of the nicest places in the world. As for the next three months and have fun my friend. I'm jealous.

[Bruce Feldman]

It's a place our friend Rossolo knows pretty well, I'll say that. So anyway, on that end, Colin, it's great to see you.

[Jason McIntyre]

Great to see you. It is a beautiful, beautiful place.

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[Jason McIntyre]

My number one team next year is Miami. Notre Dame two, Ohio State three. All really close. Oregon four. I don't think I have a five. I don't think maybe Georgia. I think my, my four are Miami, Notre Dame, Ohio State and Oregon I think they're all really, really good. Live in Chicago, it's the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. All right, you know what deserves more attention? The assists. Everybody talks about the goal, a big moment that gets replayed on the highlight reels. But too often we overlook all the contributions and collabs that happen along the way. That's true in soccer and honestly, true in life. Halion is shining a light on the assists. As official partner of U.S. soccer, they got a whole lineup of brands ready to deliver for you. So here they are. Sensodyne Dentist Recommended Defense of your sensitive teeth Centrum Fueling your day with science backed nutrients. Advil, of course. Powerful Inflammation Fighting pain relief Voltaren Arthritis Gel helps penetrate deep, keeps the joints moving and Tums ready to counterattack with fast heartburn relief. These are brands that are ready to deliver your essential wellness assists because every goal starts with an assist, Learn how Halion can assist your game day goals at

[Tony Ayo]

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[Bruce Feldman]

being

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[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, the you know, I think it's a miserable place to be in life if you seek perfection. Like I see all these this is such a con job, such a grift, these longevity specialists. Oh brother. Yeah, it's easy to be a longevity specialist at 40. Try being a longevity specialist at 108. You know, you find these old grandmas in England that'll live to be 113 and she's like, yeah, I had bourbon every day for breakfast and a pack of smokes your parents hand you. Genetics doesn't matter if you eat Clif bars, asparagus or pork chops. Like, you know, keep your stress low, your activity high. You know, don't be a heavy drinker, smoker. Usually you'll be okay. But you know, like everybody seeks perfection on the nil and the transfer portal. What's perfect? It's not about that. It's about paying the players. And there's a lot of good. The ratings are up because the quality of college sports is better, because it's older. And older players are stronger and better players and more knowledgeable players and smarter players. So, you know, Nil is not perfect and some of these schools are really up against it. But I mean, from day one I said this is going to be great. The transfer portal, it's not perfect. I wish it had more guardrails. But you know, I think if a guy is transferring three or four times, why eliminate his opportunity to transfer three or four times? If you're a school and you watch a guy transferring for the fourth time in three years, how desperate are you to accept him? You know, it's like when I hire people at my company. If you've had four jobs in three years, I'm not hiring you. You gotta, you know, you've gotta show me some growth, some loyalty. If a guy wants to go to the transfer portal eight times in two years, let him. If you're that desperate of a program that you're interested in guys like that, that's your issue. So, I mean, if somebody's been married five times and you fall in love, realize it may not end well, you know. But Yaxel Lindeborg and Adai Mara from Michigan, they end up going to Golden State in Oklahoma City. Great organizations with great star players and great support. They could have easily without the Nil. They both would have gone into pro basketball last year and Mara probably would have gone top of the second round to a crappy organization and get buried in Sacramento. I mean, I feel sorry for Acuff in Sacramento. It's like bye bye. I mean, it's like I. That's like cable access. I never watch. So, I mean, these guys. Nil. Yaxel Lendenborg changed his life. He went from Alabama to Michigan, a Natty and the Warriors. That doesn't happen without Nil. He's going to the pros out of Alabama and ended up, you know, with some on the bench for some rotting corpse of a franchise. And Mara is going UCLA to the pros and not showing how good he is offensively and he's buried middle or second round. So there is everybody seeking perfection. Just like Jeff Goodman talked about the nil and some of the upsides earlier.

[Bruce Feldman]

The talent level is better in college. We could do a whole show on everything that's wrong right now with college basketball. But what Nil has done was allow these kids to Go back to school and make legitimate money so that they're not making mistakes. They can actually develop more. They can increase their draft stock while making really good money.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean, it's whether you're a parent or a CEO or a coach, if you're seeking perfection, it's just a miserable place to be. Is that. Just try to squeeze the juice you can out of every employee. And you know, your kids, try to give them wisdom. They're just going to step in it all the time. And then, you know, I tell my kids, I'm here as a backstop, but don't ask me to clean your shoes after you step in it for the third time, clean your own. So. And I, and I look at all these people that get worked up over nil. Oh, we're going broke. Really. Louisiana, a poor state relative to the country, is paying Saban staff 40 million. The roster. 40 million. And building a $400 million facility and paying off the last guy still. Brian Kelly, you're all broke. Give me a break. There's plenty. And I also, oh, I mean, there's gambling money they didn't used to have. Like, there is TV revenue and conference revenue that's been increasing. And you guys get. It's like the Brandon Sorsby story. Well, he gambled. Get used to it. It's happening. I know college coaches who are deeply concerned and have suspicions about players on their rosters. You don't know kids on their phone all the time. Brandon Sorsby wanted a very seamless transition to the supplemental draft in the NFL and the NFL said, nope, clean your act up again. It's a bumpy road full of turbulence. For the record, his attorney is Jeffrey Kessler, but I just discovered there's two Jeffrey Kesslers. They're both high profile attorneys. I thought he had the one that was close to Trump. He has the one that has no connection to Trump. My bad. I googled it and Jeffrey Kessler, attorney showed up. I didn't know there were two with the same profession, both well known. So I would. If I'm the player here, I'd be like, I'm going to take an L. It's, it's. I'm not going to try to make up ground here. It's like the NFL and suing the nflpa. I don't know. You're not a member of it. It's hard to sue an employer who's not yet an employer. I mean, Kaepernick can say, I was in the league. You won't Let me back. That's different. This guy's never even. He's, he's not. The NFL said you're not eligible for our company yet. And you know, it's, I think people. And this goes back to the perfection seeking. Well, the NFL's all in on football and all in on gambling. No, they're not. They're mostly in on gambling with very rigid, strict boundaries. Okay, restaurants and bars are into alcohol, but they don't serve people who are falling off their chair at the bar. There are boundaries. There are a set of rules, right? So you can take that to court. So you can be in a business and be like, yes, we're in this business, but you can't do that. Like, I am, I am, I. I have been pro cannabis forever. I'm, I'm not a big smoker of it, but I am pro cannabis and pro legalization of pot. I don't want my 15 year old kids smoking it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay?

[Jason McIntyre]

I, there's, you know, I like a nice cocktail. I would not have a problem. You know, Harry Cary here in Chicago used to knock them down during games. I would prefer as a broadcaster, we don't go into that space, but the minute this show ends, I'm going to have a Zima on the train today. So this seeking perfection or. Well, they're involved in it. People are involved in a lot of things. That doesn't mean you can't have rules and stipulations and boundaries. Brandon Soares be like, bro, you can't bet on your own team. You can't bet on college football. Get out of here. And the more that was unveiled in that story, the word. I mean, at first I thought he was betting ping pong. Then it's like, oh, it's ping pong and this and this and this and college sports and oh, now it's football and now it's your team. It's like, okay, it's a different story. If there were 15 bets for $5 each on ping pong, I'd feel differently. But that's not where we are. All right, J. Mac, good show today. Jeff, man, you are.

[Colin Cowherd]

You're on one today. How many, how many neuro gums did you pop early this morning? You are cooking right now.

[Jason McIntyre]

You know what? I haven't had a neuro gum in a while.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, what, so you're just going straight to the booze, huh?

[Jason McIntyre]

No, no, I am. I. Two nights ago I had one of those gummies, a sleep gummy. Oh, yeah, but it had melatonin in It.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

So I. I'm a magnesium taker. I'm not a melatonin. And so I. I think I. It was in small writing, Melat. And I don't know, I just didn't pay attention. So I had it. I literally was on a flying saucer riding a giraffe. I had these wild dreams two nights ago. I didn't sleep. Yesterday's show I was working on. I mean, I was working on two and a half hours sleep. Still remarkable. But I was working on two and a half hours sleep. So I got home last night and I did the magnesium and a real sleeping pill. Yeah. And let's just say this was a doctor ordered.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. I could tell you a little combative today. A little defensive. I like it. It makes the show spicy. Listen, the Sourcebee stuff, you are really worked up, Ike. I could tell you're gonna be talking about this all summer. I like it.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, it's.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'll just let you cook.

[Bruce Feldman]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

I hope he gets his life together. I really do.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, he has. He went to rehab for 30 days.

[Tony Ayo]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

So let's stay out of that space and not do it. Listen, this happens all the time with alcohol. Somebody drinks too much early and they say, listen, I can't do it. I can't have one. It'll turn into six. Same with gambling. That's what addiction's all about. So just, you kind of behaved your way out of the opportunity to bet the rest of your life. Service opens doors. And at the American Military University, it can open doors for the whole family. If you have a loved one who served in the military, you may qualify for reduced tuition. AMU offers flexible online programs designed to fit your schedule so you can keep moving forward wherever life takes you. Learn [e-mail] Military open doors to the future for you and your family. With the help of American Military University, make your game day legendary with MGM Rewards. From unforgettable tailgate and viewing parties to world class dining, thrilling nightlife and entertainment that keeps energy going long after the final whistle. This is where fans come to celebrate. Show off your team spirit, cheer with friends and earn rewards on every experience you love. Because every play is bigger and every moment feels unforgettable in Las Vegas. So what are you waiting for? Make your game day legendary with MGM Rewards. Visit mgmrewards.com for details. Every goal starts with an assist. As Official partners of U.S. soccer, this team is ready to deliver. Sensodyne dentist recommended Defense of your sensitive teeth. Centrum fueling your day with science backed nutrients. Advil of course. Powerful inflammation fighting pain relief Voltaren Arthritis Gel helps penetrate deep, keeps the joints moving and tums ready to counterattack with fast heartburn relief. Learn how Halion can assist your game day [e-mail] Colin hi, it's Colin Coward. If you're looking for the best blend of durability and affordability in decking, trust Summit Decking from Deckorators. Summit features Deckorators patented Surestone technology so the boards won't splinter, sag, chalk or crack over time, and the colors three great options that really capture the rich textures of natural wood. Honestly, it's the best decking you didn't know you could afford. Order a sample before peak build season. Order a sample today. Visit decorators.com herd to get your free sample. That's decorators with A K again. Decorators.com herd this is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.