THE HERD - Hour 3 - Matt Hasselbeck stops by The Herd

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode: THE HERD - Hour 3 – Matt Hasselbeck Stops By The Herd

Date: December 17, 2025
Host: Colin Cowherd
Guest: Matt Hasselbeck
Platform: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume

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Episode Overview

In this engaging hour, Colin Cowherd welcomes former NFL quarterback and analyst Matt Hasselbeck to break down the latest and most compelling NFL storylines. Their lively conversation covers playoff dark horses, quarterback dynamics, franchise quarterback traits, the ongoing Tua Tagovailoa saga in Miami, and the debate over who deserves MVP honors this NFL season. The latter part of the episode shifts into NBA talk—discussing coaching impacts, league expansion, and shifting conference strengths—before wrapping up with a fiery debate about college football's supposed "problems."

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Key Discussion Points

1. The Playoff Picture and Underrated Teams

(03:18–04:56)

• Hasselbeck pushes back against dismissing teams like Jacksonville and Green Bay:
  • “Where are the Pittsburgh Steelers? Where are the Green Bay Packers? Yes, you’re hating on Jacksonville because who knows why...because they’re a small market.” (03:32 – Matt Hasselbeck)
• Emphasis on late-season performance:
  • “It’s what everybody says. It’s the team that plays the best football at the end of the year. It doesn’t matter what you did in September; it doesn’t matter what you did two years ago. It does not matter.” (03:56 – Matt Hasselbeck)
• Houston and Jacksonville as dangerous, overlooked opponents:
  • “Houston’s exactly the kind of team that people are going to overlook...that coaches and players are going to watch film and go, ‘Dang, we’ve got issues here.’” (04:13 – Matt Hasselbeck)

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2. Quarterback Evaluation: Bo Nix vs. Caleb Williams

(04:56–06:58)

• Polish vs. upside:
  • “He’s [Bo Nix] way more polished, refined, game-ready to me.” (05:14 – Matt Hasselbeck)
• Concerns about Bo Nix’s decision-making:
  • “Against Green Bay, he put the ball in harm’s way four times...gave them opportunities to lose that game.” (05:25 – Matt Hasselbeck)
• Caleb Williams praised for football protection and his connection with the play caller:
  • “I think that’s a compliment I’d give to Caleb Williams: he does a really nice job of protecting the football and his team." (05:57 – Matt Hasselbeck)
• Comment on the Chicago situation:
  • "I'm not 100% sure that’s what the Chicago Bears have ... The next three weeks are going to tell a lot." (06:42 – Matt Hasselbeck)

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3. Interceptions, Quarterback Mentality, and Sam Darnold

(06:58–09:23)

• Interceptions aren’t always QB’s fault:
  • “Quarterback interceptions are not always on the quarterback.” (06:58 – Colin Cowherd)
• Sam Darnold: effort and overreaching:
  • “His protection wasn’t great and he was just trying too hard... He wants it so bad.” (08:00 – Matt Hasselbeck)
• Advice from coaching:
  • “Hey, if you just go from three interceptions to two, we win. As a quarterback, it's like, oh man, I can do that.” (08:33 – Matt Hasselbeck)
• Shift from ‘hero ball’ to team-first:
  • “It’s not all on me. This is me and my guys. This is me and my specialists, my defense, Leonard Williams... And that mindset can kind of free you up as a quarterback.” (09:09 – Matt Hasselbeck)

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4. The Plight of Smaller Quarterbacks: Tua's Struggles

(09:23–11:45)

• Russell Wilson, Tua Tagovailoa, Kyler Murray—all “fell off cliffs” post-peak:
  • Physical limitations and loss of mobility cited as root problems.
• Tua’s specific issue? Grit:
  • “What got Tua benched was a lack of grittiness...He has no ability to do anything with his legs.” (10:43 – Matt Hasselbeck)
  • “He takes sacks that don't need to be taken...third and one, you go to scramble, third and two, you slide too early.” (10:51 – Matt Hasselbeck)
• Dolphins’ benching Tua is financial, not about performance:
  • “This is a financial decision ... saying, ‘We’d rather pay you $54 million to not be our quarterback next year because we are frustrated.’” (11:27 – Matt Hasselbeck)

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5. Josh Allen vs. Patrick Mahomes: MVP and Franchise Value

(11:51–14:04)

• Josh Allen’s immense impact:
  • “He’s 4–0 this year when his defense has given up 31+ points, the rest of the league is 6–80.” (11:51 – Colin Cowherd)
  • “He’s otherworldly...when you have that kind of grittiness, competitiveness, belief...the opposing coaches are like, ‘Ah, shoot, Josh Allen’s on the other side.’” (13:04 & 13:28 – Matt Hasselbeck)
• Mahomes vs. Allen debate:
  • Discussion about system, coach, and supporting cast differences.
  • “Josh Allen ended up exactly where he needed to end up...He developed and evolved.” (12:43 – Matt Hasselbeck)
• MVP definition:
  • “If the MVP is truly just the MVP...Josh Allen would be that guy.” (13:22 – Matt Hasselbeck)

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6. NBA Talk: Knicks Offense, Coaching, and East/West Strengths

(18:17–20:35)

• Coaching shift in New York improves offense:
  • “Could I argue they’re better offensively? Not quite as good defensively, but they’re a little better offensively?” (19:11 – Colin Cowherd)
• Mike Brown’s assertive benching decisions:
  • “He benched Mikal Bridges for the entire fourth quarter ... Tibbs wouldn’t play those guys ... now Mike Brown’s here and he’s like, ‘If the starters aren’t performing, we’re going to play our bench guys.’” (19:11 – J. Mack)
• Playoff and conference assessment:
  • “They’re the best team in the East. You’d agree, right?” (20:05 – J. Mack)

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7. NBA Expansion: Las Vegas and Seattle, Conference Realignment

(25:46–29:45)

• Adam Silver outlines NBA’s expansion focus:
  • “Not a secret, we’re looking at Las Vegas ... we are looking at Seattle ... we’re in the process of working with our teams and gauging the level of interest.” (25:46 – (paraphrased) Adam Silver via Colin Cowherd)
• Colin’s take:
  • “I don’t think most sports in America need expansion, but I do think there is a ton of really good basketball talent globally. I’d put it in Vegas.” (26:35 – Colin Cowherd)
• East/West juggling—who shifts?:
  • “Seattle and Vegas are West Coast teams; they go in the Western Conference. So you’ve got to move somebody to the East.” (26:42 – J. Mack)
  • “Minnesota and Memphis, I think, will have a knockdown, drag-out fight ... winning in the East…” (27:04 – J. Mack)
• On Anthony Edwards’ potential:
  • “Anthony Edwards isn’t breaking through the West, Colin … Put him in the East, he might be in the Finals in three years.” (28:26 – J. Mack)
  • “Would you take Anthony Edwards—move him out of the West to the East?” (28:43 – Colin Cowherd)

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8. College Football “Problems” – Cowherd Rant

(33:49–40:32)

• Colin’s fire on athletic program bloat:
  • “You could do yourself a favor and get rid of 20 of your athletic programs. Why do you have fencing and rowing and all these sports that don’t make any money?”
• College football is thriving—rest of athletic departments hemorrhaging money:
  • “College football didn’t have a problem ... The problem is all these programs, they’re all hemorrhaging money.” (35:17 – Colin Cowherd)
• Title IX and scholarships?:
  • “I’m not saying get rid of women's programs. I’m saying get rid of both [men’s and women’s] ... of the stuff that doesn’t make any money...” (39:09 – Colin Cowherd)
• J. Mack notes on niche sports aiding college admissions:
  • “A lot of people have gravitated towards a sport like fencing because ... it’s an easier way to get into really good colleges.” (39:38 – J. Mack)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On playoff upstarts:
  • “It’s the team that plays the best football at the end of the year ... So the team that’s playing the best.” (03:57 – Matt Hasselbeck)
• On Tua’s criticism:
  • “He has no ability to do anything with his legs. He takes sacks that don’t need to be taken... That’s coach frustration.” (10:44 – Matt Hasselbeck)
• On Allen's grit:
  • “He can literally put his team on his back. He can go above the X's and O's.” (13:10 – Matt Hasselbeck)
• On college football's status:
  • “College football doesn’t have a problem ... The problem is you have all these programs. They’re all hemorrhaging money.” (35:18 – Colin Cowherd)
• On NBA possible expansion:
  • “Vegas is who I would pick. Seattle and Vancouver ... long flight in a long winter season.” (26:30 – Colin Cowherd)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:18 – Matt Hasselbeck defends small-market playoff teams
• 05:14 – Hasselbeck on Bo Nix vs. Caleb Williams
• 06:58 – Quarterback interception discussion and Sam Darnold analysis
• 09:23 – Size, mobility, and Tua Tagovailoa’s struggles
• 13:04 – Josh Allen's value, grit, and comparison to Mahomes
• 18:17 – Knicks’ improved offense under new coaching
• 25:46 – NBA expansion: Las Vegas and Seattle, conference impacts
• 33:49 – Cowherd’s rant on college athletics financial bloat

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Conclusion

This episode showcases Colin Cowherd and Matt Hasselbeck’s chemistry as they break down the unsung contenders of the NFL, evaluate the most scrutinized quarterbacks, and debate what grit, talent, and context really mean in sports success. The second half moves seamlessly into basketball, discussing the impact of coaching, player movement, league structure, and the future of NBA expansion. Colin’s unapologetically strong views on college football and athletic department management cap off a show packed with perspective, energy, and signature sports debate.

Transcript

[Podcast Announcer]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Commercial Voice]

So.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[J. Mack]

Who.

[Colin Cowherd]

Who are you dying? You're already smiling. Who are you dying?

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I was enjoying that. It was super entertaining for me. I was actually just sitting there listening, kind of disappointed that I had to come on and talk. I was enjoying it. But no, you're incomplete, man. Like, you're incomplete. Like, what are we doing? Where are the Pittsburgh Steelers? Where are the Green Bay Packers? And yes, you're hating on Jacksonville because who knows why? Because they're a small market and you just feel like hating on them for that reason. They're alive. Listen, I know I'm probably biased. I lost a Super bowl to a wild card team that nobody gave a chance.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Chance.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Nobody gave a chance to them and then they just kept winning and winning and winning. And it's what everybody says. It's the team that plays the best football at the end of the year. It doesn't matter what you did in September, it doesn't matter what you did two years ago. It does not matter. So the team that's playing the best. I love the fact that you gave Houston all that love. Houston's exactly the kind of team that people are going to overlook and that coaches and players, they're going to turn on that film and it's going to be nameless faces on that film and they're going to be like, dang, like, we got issues here. Like, we got issues going up against this team. We don't want to play that team and that division even. I mean, Jacksonville is a similar thing. Carolina is a team that people are going to sleep on. That's what's so great about this tournament. Is there a favorite? Yeah, there's a favorite. It's the LA Rams. And I think that the Rams and the Seahawks Thursday night, that could be the best game of the entire. You know, those could be the two best teams in the NFL right there, Thursday night, they might see each other again. So, you know, we'll see.

[Colin Cowherd]

This.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

This is exciting. I'm loving it. That's why I was so entertained listening to you, you know, kind of go through it.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I. My gut feeling is I do think Caleb and Bo. I mean, I. Again, Caleb's got more torque. Although I think Bo is incredibly agile and athletic. He is so clever and deceptive on the rollouts. My gut feeling is you like Bo more than Caleb at this point, though, right?

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Yeah, he's way more polished, refined, game ready to me.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay. Is there something about Bo that does. That you do worry about? Is there a lower ceiling? How do you view him?

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Yeah, listen, I'm a huge. I'm a huge fan of Bo Nicks. That doesn't mean that he's playing perfect right now. I mean, you're talking about his numbers in the fourth quarter and how they're good. Yeah, they are good. But against Green Bay, he put. He put the ball in harm's way four times. Like, it's tips and overthrows. Got to get those. That's what they say on defense. The packers didn't do it. Those balls were up in the air. He gave him opportunities to lose that game. And, you know, I just even go back to, like, what Philip Rivers did this past week, and everyone wants to talk about, hey, what'd you see out of Philip Rivers? He didn't put his team in negative situations. That's like the thing. That's the thing. Tom Brady did so well saying Aaron Rodgers did so well. And I think that's a compliment that I would give to Caleb Williams, is that Caleb Williams does a really nice job of protecting the football, and he's done a nice job this year of protecting his team in other ways. And so I think when you get the play caller and the quarterback really on the same page, really clicking like you're my guy through thick and thin, no matter what. That's. That's when you're cooking with gas. And that's what the Broncos have. I'm not 100% sure that that's what this. What the Chicago Bears have. Ben Johnson got hired to fix Caleb, to do his magic with Caleb. He's off to a great start. But to think that this is. Those two guys are a forever pair. I think that remains to be seen. I think they're off to a great start. But you. The next three weeks are going to tell a lot. Nationally televised games, and it's a great team around him. So I'm not all the way sold. I thought this last game was the best game I've seen Caleb play though, so.

[Colin Cowherd]

Quarterback interceptions are not always on the quarterback. You have young receivers, they don't run the right route. Somebody misses a block, you're rushed. Seven of the 11 interception leaders in the NFL right now are like Pro bowl level quarterbacks. Josh Allen, Darnold, Dak Mahomes, Herbert, Trevor Lawrence. Let's talk Sam Darnold tomorrow against the Rams. Are his interceptions. When you watch him not seeing something reckless, kind of his DNA when you look at. Because I thought Andrew Luck was a guy that, that wasn't reckless, but he just, he was an aggressive guy and he was going to take big swings because Andrew Luck knew deep down our roster is not very good. We can't go 13 play drives. We don't have that old line. Sam does have a lot around him. Why is he throwing picks in his career? What do they look like to you?

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Well, let's just go back to the. About a month ago they played the Rams. He had four interceptions in that game and you know, his protection wasn't great and he was just trying too hard. You know, most of the interceptions that I've seen him throw this year, as you know, he's just wanting it so bad. He wants it to work. And you know, go back to the last game against the Rams. The Rams won the game. Sam Darnold throws four interceptions. But if he only throws three interceptions, the Seahawks win the game. And that's kind of the mindset that I think the coaches are going to have to get into him this week for the Thursday night game. And I've had coaches do this to me as well. And they literally say it like, hey, listen, if you just go from three interceptions to two interceptions, we win. And as a quarterback, it's like, oh man, like, I can do that. Like, I can do that. Instead of the mindset of like, hey, if our line is getting, you know, worked by their D line, you got to do something heroic, you know, and just, it's like a mind. It's a, it's a, it's a shift in how you're thinking about it. And I think they're talking to him the way that they probably talk to me or Andrew Luck or all the guys you mentioned, hey, listen, we have one of the best defenses in the NFL. Our special teams can go win us a game at the end. We've got a great punter. Let him punt. You know, those kinds of ways that you can Talk to a quarterback can kind of settle him down and make him feel like, hey, it's not all on me. This is not me against the league MVP Matthew Stafford. This is me and my guys. This is me and my team. This is me and my specialists, my defense, Leonard Williams, those guys against the Rams. And that mindset can kind of free you up as a quarterback. And I think that's what would help Sam the most.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, a few years ago, we watched Russell Wilson go Seattle to Denver and almost inexplicably fell off a cliff. And I think for two years we're like, what happened Pro bowl to this? And then I watched Tua over the last year and a half fall off a cliff. And they're both smaller quarterbacks who. Part of their gift early was a little elusiveness, could move the pocket. Kyler Murray feels like he has dropped off a cliff. I've been in the same room with you. You're about six four, maybe a little taller. And I've said, this is. I don't want to hear. I see this Vanderbilt quarterback. People are like, oh. And I'm like, I'm not touching that. I got. I saw him in a picture. Dylan Gabriel, I saw him in a picture with other quarterbacks. I'm not drafting that. You tell me, did your size. I don't know what you weighed, 220. Did your size help you through the years with all those punitive hits?

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Yeah, probably more like 240 even today. But no, listen, I'm. I'm not a guy that's going to hate on somebody because of their height. If you're a player, you're a player. You're a baller, you're a leader, you're a guy that can protect the ball. You can do it downfield. I think Tua is actually. I don't think Tua played his worst game this last game. I think he played how he's played all year. I think what got Tua benched was a lack of grittiness, like, a lack of toughness, a lack of. He has no ability to do anything with his legs. He takes sacks that don't need to be taken and they're double digits minus 12, minus 11. Third and one, you go to scramble, or third and two, you slide too early. Like, I think it's that. That kind of like. Like frustration from the head coach, where it's like, we need someone to, like, put this team on our. On their back and, like, send a message, and that's what you get so excited about. When like a non running quarterback runs for a first down, it's like, all right, we got him, here we go. That's where I think Tua needs to like step up his game. Yeah, one interception. That wasn't what it was because they're not turning the page to somebody who's going to all of a sudden do better. Like you're not. I'm not expecting either one of those quarterbacks based on what they've shown this year to do any better than Tua.

[Commercial Voice]

They're.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

This is, this is a financial decision and them saying, you know what? We would rather pay you $54 million to not be our quarterback next year because we are frustrated that you don't have what we see out of guys like Justin Herbert and other guys that we admire. Josh Allen, that's, that's the frustration and it's unfortunate maybe to a pulls himself out of it, maybe he gets another opportunity, but it certainly doesn't look like it's going to happen in Miami.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I'm watching Josh Allen right now. He's four and oh, this year when his defense has given up 31 or more points, the rest of the league is like 6 and 80. And I sometimes I wonder if Josh would have inherited Andy Reid and Travis Kelsey and, and I think to myself and Mahomes went to Buffalo with a defensive coach, would their careers be different? I think John Elway, when I was a kid or younger was the best, most talented quarterback I'd ever seen. Arm movement, Stanford guy, just toughness, everything. I look at Josh and I'm like, well, he's more talented than Mahomes. He's bigger and stronger. Do you see that or do you still think Mahomes has a magic that's why he's got the trophies that maybe Josh doesn't have.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I think Josh Allen ended up exactly where he needed to end up. You know, if you remember, he came into the draft, there was a little bit of, you know, it wasn't super smooth. And he went to Buffalo and he kind of hid a little bit from the, from the spotlight a little bit and he developed and evolved all the quarterbacks that I've sort of evaluated or watched or even just been a fan of. I thought that Josh Allen made the biggest improvement from college to the NFL in a two year span. I mean he was absolutely amazing once he, once it clicked for him in the NFL and he has never looked back. And to me, you know, the defense is a problem. The defense is a problem. If you're trying to hoist a Lombardi. But this is a guy that can literally put his team on his back. He can go above the X's and O's if the, if the MVP is truly just the MVP and not necessarily how your team is doing and all that kind of stuff. Josh Allen would be that guy. He's, he's otherworldly. Oh, my team's down 21 nothing to the team that's going to be the one seed, the new England Patriots. No big deal. Let's go, let's go win it on the road. No big deal. That's kind of who he is. And when you have that kind of grittiness, competitiveness, belief, not only your teammates believe in you that way, but the opponent, the opposing coaches, they're like, ah, shoot, you know, it's Josh Allen's on the other side. That's what everyone looking for when they say franchise quarterback and the Buffalo Bills have it. And, and I mean, they are so lucky and fortunate to have them.

[Colin Cowherd]

Matt Hasselbeck, as always, appreciate you stopping by and we'll see you after a great weekend on Monday, buddy.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Sounds good. See you. Calling.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right. Matt Hasselbeck. Love having him on the show. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Hey, it's Covino and Rich from Fox Sports Radio. Now, in addition to hearing us live weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, we're excited to announce a brand new YouTube channel for the show. Yup, that's right. You can now watch Covino ENRICH Live on YouTube every day. All you got to do, search COVINO and RICH FSR on YouTube again, go to YouTube. Search COVINOENRICH FSR. Check us out on YouTube. Subscribe. Hit that thumbs up icon and comment away.

[Sophie Cunningham]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Your Knicks. Last night, JMAC picked up a very impressive W. Yeah, you want a funny story?

[J. Mack]

So when I saw the spurs first two games this season, I was like, oh my gosh, they play hard and they're really good. So I bet them to win the NBA cup at long odds. I was rooting for the spurs last night against the Knicks, which was tough. And the spurs led by 11 in the third quarter. I mean, did you watch that game? I texted you. I figured you ghosted me.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, 13 to 1 run by the Knicks. They were getting outplayed, trailed. OG played great. Brunson didn't shoot particularly well. Wemby didn't play particularly well. Listen, they, they got rid of Tibs. They bring in Mike Brown, a well traveled, well like guy. And we were all like, I'm not sure if it's going to work there. Could I argue? I don't think they have a very good bench, not a trustable bench, and they don't defend the three particularly well. But can I argue they're better offensively? Not quite as good defensively this year, but they're a little better offensively. Would you agree with that?

[J. Mack]

Totally agree. I was proud of Mike Brown. He benched Mikhail Bridges for the entire fourth quarter. Bridges wasn't playing good. Cat got benched for about seven minutes in the fourth. They were riding with Jordan Clarkson, Tyler Kolek, okay, the kid from Marquette, I love his game, but like, Tibbs wouldn't play those guys. Colin a year ago. So now Mike Brown's here and he's like, yeah, listen, we're going to play our bench guys if the starters aren't performing.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. You know, it's like when Mark Jackson coached the warriors, then Steve Kerr. Mark Jackson did a fine job, but Steve was better offensively. The Knicks are now number two offensively. And you, when you, when you watch him, it's like I said about JJ Redick over Darvin Ham. Darvin was great defensively, but you always felt the offense got jammed up. When you watch J.J. redick, it's like in the NFL, offensive coaches, they just get that side better. When I watch the Knicks, I think they feel more freed up, a little more creative offensively. Not quite as good defensively, but you're winning in this league. If you can get buckets, there's a lot.

[J. Mack]

Yeah, they're the best team in the East. You would agree, right? I mean, I don't know that right now.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right now.

[J. Mack]

Cats have fallen off. Yeah, Celtics. We don't know if Tatum's coming back. I know the Pistons are hot, but it's like, come on, this is a.

[Colin Cowherd]

Cade Cunningham the last two years has. He is a top five or six.

[J. Mack]

Player, but how about this?

[Colin Cowherd]

He's one of our. He may be. Is he our best domestic player right now?

[J. Mack]

Yes. I'll give him the nod over Cooper Flag and Austin Reeves, but I just had to. God, I just had to get him in there.

[Colin Cowherd]

Come on, J. Mac with the news.

[Commercial Voice]

No, no, no.

Turn on the news.

[J. Mack]

This is the headline news. All right. It's weird. I think the media is getting this TUA situation wrong. And I think you nailed it earlier. How? This is a soft tank. They're benching TUA to lose games. See what they've got in quinn ewers.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right.

[J. Mack]

McDaniel said yesterday everything's on the table and now yours is going to give them a chance to win here. But it's weird. There's all this like, oh, well, were we trading two or two? And then our guys are looking at the cap hits and the contract is terrible. Colin, nobody's taking on this contract.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right.

[J. Mack]

So there's no market for two.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay. So if there is a market, you don't want him hurt. So it's not like the Dolphins will try to lose, but when you go to Quinn Ewers against Joe Burrow, you're going to lose. Or Quinn Ewers against Baker Mayfield or Drake May. So they're going to go over three in these games. They're still preparing to win, but they're keeping TUA upright and healthy if somebody does come, because remember Jaden Myaba? I'm staying in college. Dante Moore may stay in college. You say there's no market for tua. Wait around it. March when you got one quarterback. And teams like the Raiders are like, okay, I'm not. I'm just throwing at the Raiders. So everybody says there's no market for tua. Be very careful. If Dante Moore says I'm staying at Oregon, you're in. Ty Simpson says I'm staying at Bama. You don't have a choice.

[J. Mack]

This idea that they're going to cut TUA and take the dead cap hit. Look at Denver with Russell Wilson. I would just argue Denver had a plan. There was like five quarterbacks that were going to go in the top 12. Okay. Bo Nix had four years experience starting in college football. I understood that. Where's the quarterback? What's the plan, the secession plan for tua. Now if Quinn Ewers lights the world on fire here, okay, maybe he's your starter and two is the expensive backup, but I think he'll be on the Dolphins roster in 2026. Would you agree?

[Colin Cowherd]

No.

[J. Mack]

Okay, fine. What roster is Tua?

[Colin Cowherd]

I don't know the answer, but no.

[J. Mack]

Oh, bold. Wow, I'm seeing this. Kyler Murray for two of swap. That's comical. Guys, just stop. All right, let's move on to again, Josh Allen and the mvp. Colin, listen man, but you and I agree at least on this. Josh Allen is the best quarterback in the league.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[J. Mack]

Right now. Period. I'm sorry to the Mahomes fanboys he didn't bring it this year. And Allen's been amazing. That comeback against the Patriots vaulted him back into the MVP discussion. We got, we got a little graphic here. So the MVP leader, Stafford. Guys, do not lay it minus 300 with Stafford right now, followed by Drake May. Josh Allen. Ooh, look at Bo Nix at +7500. The problem is Stafford. If they don't, if he doesn't deliver in Seattle, the next two games are, I think Atlanta and Arizona. They're not high profile games. Guess who Josh Allen has after this? The Philadelphia Eagles. Okay, so if, if Stafford stumbles, Josh Allen next week goes and beats the Eagles. See that game there? Week 17. Oh, it just happens to be on Fox. And 30 million people will watch Josh Allen take down the super bowl champs and he wins the mvp. So I mean, listen, I think Stafford's been great, but he doesn't have devonte Thursday. Does he get well again?

[Colin Cowherd]

It's called most valuable player. If you took Stafford off the Rams and let's say you played Jimmy Garoppolo as backup, I think you could be a 500 team. If you take Josh Allen out of the Bulls or out of the Bills. I mean they're, they're the Dolphins, like, they're just, they're not enough elite players. I, I don't know. I. So again, most valuable. I always said when LeBron was in Cleveland, just give him the award. It's not. He's the most val. He was worth 500 million equity to the ownership. Josh Allen's the most valuable player in this league. Whether he wins the award again, the Rams, our defense, our coaching, our run game. I'm not saying Stafford's not great, but he doesn't do anything out of structure. He's not a scramble guy. He is a perfect ace. He is a great pitcher for this batting order, Josh Allen, you take him out of Buffalo. The franchise is worth a billion lessons. Like everything. They can't. I mean, they're the number one run team in the league. Well, part of that's Josh. Not just James Cook.

[J. Mack]

We, we love Stafford. Colin, I know you love, like a top 10 players. If you did Rams and Bills in a hypothetical super bowl and you did your top 10 players list how many Buffalo Bills on that list? Josh Allen, James Cook, and I mean, I mean, Dion Dawkins was really good. Does he crack the top ten?

[Colin Cowherd]

It's probably eight Rams.

[J. Mack]

That's insane. And to me, that would lead Josh Allen to be the mvp. But we'll see what the, what the voters have to say. Final story. Colin, to the NBA. Adam Silver was holding court with the media before the NBA cup championship yesterday. And interestingly, he talked about expansion. Buzzy word in the league. It's been out there for a while. Adam Silver basically saying expansion is coming next year. Here's what he had to say.

[Colin Cowherd]

In terms of domestic expansion, that is something we're continuing to look at. Not a secret. We're looking at, you know, this market in Las Vegas. We've looked at. We are looking at Seattle. We've looked at other markets as well. I'd say I want to be sensitive there about this notion that we're somehow teasing these markets, because I know we've been talking about it for a while. We're in the process of, you know, working with our teams and gauging the level of interest and having a better understanding of what the economics would be on the ground for those particular teams. Yeah, I mean, I don't think most sports in America need expansion, but I do think there is a ton of really good basketball talent globally. I think Vegas is who I would pick. Seattle and Vancouver. They are a long flight in a long winter season. I would say now that hockey's in Seattle, I would put it in Vegas. I think in a winter league, everybody loves to go to Vegas, but you.

[J. Mack]

Got to do two. You got to have even, you know, 16 in each conference. Which leads me to this. Seattle and Vegas are West coast teams. They will go both in the Western Conference. So that means you got to move somebody to the East.

[Colin Cowherd]

Milwaukee, Milwaukee.

[J. Mack]

Milwaukee's already in the East. But here's the thing. Minnesota and Memphis, I think will have a knockdown, drag out, fight, get me.

[Colin Cowherd]

Away from the Spurs. You're right.

[J. Mack]

Luca and Wemby, I don't want any part of that. I think winning in the east you.

[Colin Cowherd]

Know, I was confused because I've said this for years. If Chicago wasn't Chicago in hockey in the west, if Michael Jordan and the Bulls would have been in the west, he wouldn't have gone 6 for 6 because he would have arguably made the Finals and lost to the Pistons and the Celtics. So sometimes where you are geographically, I mean, LeBron, it was a big advantage Being in the East. I mean, huge. In the west, it's just more intense. Games like LeBron in the west has been very good. They don't even. I mean, Oklahoma City now is beating teams by 16 a game. It's like it's over. Like Denver, because of Jokic, his greatness is always going to be viable. And they gave OKC some problems last year. He's a hard matchup. But, you know, the league would love, you know, the Pelicans. The Pelicans are in the West.

[J. Mack]

Yeah, that's a goofy. But here, here's my thing. Anthony Edwards has been talked about as potential face of the league. He ain't breaking through the West, Colin. It's just not hap. There's too many good teams, too many stack rosters. You put Anthony Edwards in the east, he might be in the finals in three years. He's that good. And the east is really down, man. It's like there's a couple good players, but if Giannis gets traded, what are they talking about? Houston Rockets, maybe okc. Like, everybody's in the West. I would love, if I'm Anthony Edwards to be in the Eastern Conference. He is a. I mean, you love Anthony Edwards. I know.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. No, no, I mean, yeah, I guess Minnesota. Yeah. I mean, it, it, it's. Yeah, Minnesota and the Pelicans go to the East.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

I mean, the Pelicans don't make any sense in the west flying to New Orleans. Yeah, that doesn't make any sense, but it's hard. Would you take Anthony Edwards, moving him out of the west to the East? He's been in the. Hasn't he been in the last two Western Conference finals?

[J. Mack]

He made one or two, but yeah, again, looking forward, you know, he's getting his big contract coming up. Like, I just. I like Ant a lot. One of my favorite, by the way, he's a big ping pong player. I know you like to table tennis it up. Anthony, he's just got that magnetic personality that really wins fans over.

[Colin Cowherd]

Remember, Halliburton and Jayson Tatum are coming back next year. So the east is sort of. It's better than we're giving it credit for. Also, I think the Sixers rookie Sixers will get better. Halliburton comes back, Tatum comes back. It's a little artificial at this point. The east is bad, but it's got two of its top five players and like real playmakers, real leaders of a franchise that are out J. Mac with the News.

[J. Mack]

Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by.

[Colin Cowherd]

The Herd Lie News in Chicago, it's the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Sophie Cunningham]

This is Sophie Cunningham and Wes Wilson.

[Commercial Voice]

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[Sophie Cunningham]

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[Sophie Cunningham]

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[Sophie Cunningham]

Dude, double roast beef, double beef and cheddar. Twice the meat, twice the happiness. Available for a limited time at participating locations. While supplies last.

[Colin Cowherd]

Bam.

[Commercial Voice]

Thursday Night Football is on and it's only on Prime Video. This week, the NFC west grabs a spotlight as the Rams visit. The Seahawks coverage begins at 7pm Eastern with TNF tonight presented by Verizon. It's Rams Seahawks Thursday at 7pm Eastern and don't miss Broncos Chiefs on Christmas night. Only on Prime Video. Not a Prime member. Simply sign up for a 30 day free trial. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details.

[Podcast Announcer]

Season 2 of unrivaled basketball is here and the talent is unreal. The best women's players on the planet are running it back to with even bigger moments and bigger stakes. Don't miss as Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more take the court and redefine the game. This isn't your regular season. This is unrivaled, where the pace is faster, the energy is higher and every athlete shines. Unrivaled basketball. Season two, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5th on TNT TruTV and HBO Max.

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[J. Mack]

Tonight, it's a college hoops triple header on FS1, starting with a pair of Biggie showdowns as Creighton battles Xavier, followed by Georgetown, Marquette. Then we head out to the west coast where Arizona state takes on UCLA. It all tips off at 6pm Eastern here on FS1.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, it's so funny to listen to everybody say college football's broken, it's falling apart. You could do yourself a favor and get rid of 20 of your athletic programs. Why do you have fencing and rowing and all these sports that don't make any money? I watch college football. The ratings are great. The stadiums are packed, the revenue's unbelievable. The boosters are all engaged. College football didn't have a problem. College athletics is a house of cards because you have 34 athletic teams and 32 hemorrhage money. Cut them that. I mean, to me, I would have football, men's and women's basketball, men's and women's, whatever the stuff that, you know, baseball or softball, whatever makes money and revenue, and if anything, that supports our Olympic or our World cup movement. I would keep soccer, men's and women's. I would keep track and field, men's and women's. Those support our World cup aspirations, our Olympic aspirations. But, I mean, all these athletic departments, all. I know, I watch football. Stadiums packed, revenues flowing, ratings are great. College football is not the problem. The problem is you have all these programs. They're all hemorrhaging money. So I, you know, I look at college football now. Indiana and Texas Tech are two of the top six teams, seven teams in the country. It's broken. The little guy, James Madison. Two lanes in the playoff and it's broken. I mean, Notre Dame didn't get in. James Madison did. You're telling me it's broken? The rich are only getting richer. Notre Dame did not get in, but Tulane did. That doesn't feel broken to me. The little guys getting a little life. The big guys getting life. You know, you've always got some big programs like Michigan right now, sort of, you know, a little bit of a mess, obviously. So you've always got one of those programs out there that's a big dog looking for a coach. But I don't know, I, I, I keep hearing about college football. And I remember, you know, I grew up on the west coast with the PAC 12, and when it disbanded, everybody freaked out. My takeaway is I'm watching the games. Outside of Washington and Oregon, there's a bunch of empty seats. Nobody's going to ucla, nobody's going to Cal, nobody's going to Stanford. What's the point? Take the four best teams and put them in the Big Ten. Just like the Big 12. Texas and Oklahoma were great, but it was a bunch of, you know, nonsense. A bunch of, you know, small towns and can't drive revenue. And yet Texas and Oklahoma have to share all their revenue. I don't know. I feel like the Big Ten in the SEC are money. We still have Notre Dame and Miami out there that feel big in the acc. Texas Tech has emerged. You know, Utah is always viable. I, Arizona State's kind of fascinating with Dillingham coaching him. He may leave. I don't feel like it's broken. Revenue is unbelievable. Ratings are through the roof. The Big Ten's never been stronger. The SEC has never been stronger. There have never been more games I want to watch. I, I was a Pac 12 guy. I was done watching Cal against Arizona. I did not need to see that. Another time in my Life. You know, the bigger issue with college sports is this unwillingness to look in the mirror and look at your books and get rid of all these. At. You know, they say, what about Title 9? I'm not saying get rid of women's programs. I'm saying get rid of both. Get rid of a lot of this stuff that doesn't make any money. Do you really need fencing, rowing, wrestling? I don't know. It's. I just. When I see an athletic department has 34 teams. How in the world do some of these sports make money? It's a friends and family crowd. It's like relatives or nobody goes to the sport. Why do you have those? Is there a. Is there a minimum number you have to have? I don't know. I. I know football drives the bus. You know, there's another. There's another. You notice these highlights. Look at the crowd. There's not a seat available, and those people aren't getting in for five bucks. I mean, look, here's another game. Oh, Oregon game. Crowd packed. Looks like a NFL game. I don't think college football's got a problem if. If your ratings and your revenue are up, you don't have a problem with that sport. You have the problem with all the gravy trainers in college athletics that are living off football. Got a lot of gravy trainers in that athletic department with egos that think their tennis programs viable. Their water polo is a big deal. Give me a break. That's just. You're just writing checks and getting nothing back. College football, to me, never any. Any business. It doesn't matter what business it is. I don't care if you're a streaming company. You could be. You could be Netflix. I go to Netflix. I watch a lot on Netflix. If you say, well, they're not making money, well, then fire the directors that can't create hit shows. Not the ones I'm watching. I'm watching streaming companies. If streaming companies aren't making money, it's not because of the top directors, top writers and top actors. Get rid of the middle down. They're the one losing money. Because I'm. I'm going to those streaming services and I'm paying for them. There's my TED Talk. J. Mack, you're watching as much college football.

[J. Mack]

You know, there's this thing called Title 9 that still.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, I know. I'm not saying. I'm not saying that. Cut. No, I'm not. I'm saying cut. Both men's and women's rowing. I'm not Saying to cut one or the other. I'm saying football. And then I would have five or six sports with both. But the idea you need 34 programs in an athletic department and 32 lose money. 20 hemorrhage money.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Me.

[Colin Cowherd]

You're flying kids. All Cal right now is flying people to the east coast, and there's nine people at the event.

[J. Mack]

I didn't have this rant on my bingo card this week, so I'm not fully equipped to agree or disagree with you. I'll just say this. I got two young kids. I know their friends. A lot of people have gravitated toward a sport like fencing because you know what? It's an easier way to get into really good colleges if you're an expert fencer, because there's not a lot of those. Everybody. Football gives out a ton. Soccer, all the major sports. But it's these smaller sports, how kids are able to get into college.

[Colin Cowherd]

By the way, those sports don't give out full scullies. Ivy League doesn't give out. Scholarship.

[J. Mack]

No, no. You get like a partial. Or they'll give you money that makes up for what would be a scholarship because they can't do an athletic.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'm for men's and women's soccer, men's and women's basketball, men's and women track and field. There's a lot of volleyball in there. Come on.

[J. Mack]

Volleyball. I like.

[Colin Cowherd]

I like volleyball. But 34 athletic programs.

[J. Mack]

Listen, you know, rowing. I'll tell you a rowing story off air. Listen, there's a. It's an interesting discussion. I'll just leave it at that.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, there's a rowing story that's. Listen, I got a rowing story. It's highly controversial. I can't tell you on air this row.

[Sophie Cunningham]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Podcast Announcer]

Season 2 of unrivaled basketball is here, and the talent is unreal. The best women's players on the planet are running it back with even bigger moments and bigger stakes. Don't miss as Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Perry, Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more take the court and redefine the game. This isn't your regular season. This is unrivaled, where the pace is faster, the energy is higher, and every athlete shines. Unrivaled basketball season two, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT, TruTV and HBO Max at CVS. It matters that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it. It matters that we're here for you when you need us, day or night, and we want everyone to feel welcomed and rewarded. It matters that CVS is here to fill your prescriptions and here to fill your craving for a tasty and, yeah, healthy snack. At cvs, we're proud to serve your community because we believe where you get your medicine matters. So Visit [e-mail] or just come by our store. We can't wait to meet you. Store hours vary by location. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.