THE HERD - Hour 3 - Mike Tomlin Leaves Steelers, Robert Mays Explores What's Next for Tomlin

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Hour 3 – Mike Tomlin Leaves Steelers, Robert Mays Explores What's Next for Tomlin
Date: January 13, 2026
Host: Colin Cowherd
Guest Analyst: Robert Mays (The Athletic)

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the seismic news that Pittsburgh Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin has officially stepped down after 19 storied seasons. Colin Cowherd lays out the immediate impact on the Steelers, the broader coaching market, and potential career paths for Tomlin. Special guest Robert Mays from The Athletic offers in-depth analysis. Together, they examine the Steelers' future, top head coaching candidates, team-building philosophies, the competitiveness of current coaching vacancies, and what Tomlin’s departure means for the broader NFL landscape.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Breaking News: Mike Tomlin Steps Down

[01:51, 11:09, 34:16]

• Cowherd confirms Tomlin's resignation, calling it a "historic 19 season run" and "the end of an era" for the Steelers.

• He speculates that Tomlin wasn't fired but mutually agreed to step down, hinting at behind-the-scenes negotiations and referencing fan dissatisfaction and organizational fatigue.

  "It's just being reported. Mike Tomlin has officially stepped down after a historic 19 season run. According to Adam Schefter and Jeremy Fowler, the Steelers will be looking for their first coach, only their fourth coach since the late 60s." – Colin Cowherd [01:51]

• Steelers Ownership Statement (read by Cowherd): Highly complimentary, expressing immense gratitude for Tomlin’s dedication and listing his many accomplishments.

  "Track record of never having a losing season, likely never be duplicated. My family and I, everybody connected to the Steelers management, forever grateful for the passion and dedication Mike Tomlin has devoted to Steelers football. I mean, he's a Hall of Fame coach." – Colin Cowherd [34:16]

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Was It Time for Tomlin to Go?

[12:07, 35:59]

• Mays and Cowherd both agree it was the right time, emphasizing that the relationship between Tomlin and the Steelers had "run its course" and a reset was due.

• Upcoming youth movement: Steelers poised to take advantage of high draft capital and shed aging defensive stars.

  "We were in a place with both the Steelers and Mike Tomlin where it was mutually beneficial for them to go their separate ways... The Steelers are poised to go from being one of the oldest teams in the league to... a youth movement. They have a ton of picks this year." – Robert Mays [12:07], [35:59]

• Reset vs. rebuild: Steelers have a strong culture but lack a clear direction, especially at quarterback.

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Pittsburgh Steelers: Future Directions and Leading Candidates

[13:06, 13:09, 36:34]

• Cowherd pushes for an offensive-minded coach like Kevin Stefanski, arguing that culture coaches are less critical right now than schematic innovation.

• Mays responds that while the Steelers are unconventional and surprise with hires (hired Tomlin at 35, then an unknown), they aren’t afraid to chart their own course; all options are open.

• Both agree: Quarterback situation is a major handicap for prospective coaches.

  "Whoever takes a Steelers job, they don't have a quarterback. Whoever gets the Giants has Jackson Dart. So we all say, oh, Ian Cohen. Yeah, but he had a quarterback." – Colin Cowherd [36:34]

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Broader NFL Coaching Market: Nine Openings, New Possibilities

[11:09, 19:23, 26:40, 28:19]

• Nine head coach vacancies, including the Steelers, Giants, Ravens, Browns, Titans, Falcons, Cardinals, Raiders, and Dolphins—making it one of the most competitive cycles in years.

  "Nine openings is the most since 2022. So. Wow, this is just wild." – Colin Cowherd [28:03]

• Shifts in hiring philosophy: Owners more willing to clean house, pay big buyouts, and chase the "right guy" thanks to increased franchise valuations.

• Cowherd calls for teams to avoid "coordinator roulette" if proven leaders like Tomlin, Harbaugh, and Stefanski are available.

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The Giants and Other Openings: Matching Coaches to Team Needs

[15:00, 15:41]

• Giants need "a culture guy" because of recent dysfunction. Tomlin and Harbaugh are top fits; Stefanski would be a better match in a situation needing offensive overhaul.

• Mays: The Giants offer stability and patience, which is attractive to experienced coaches.

  "The Giants as an organization are more attractive to people in the NFL than they are to the general public right now because of how bad they've recently [been]." – Robert Mays [15:41]

• Steelers ranked only the third best job opening due to lack of quarterback and aging roster.

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On Tomlin’s Next Step: TV, a “Sabbatical,” or a New Job?

[12:07, 15:41, 24:54]

• Cowherd speculates Tomlin could take a year off, like Sean Payton, and return stronger—possibly waiting for a better job, such as Dallas or even Green Bay.

• Both agree Tomlin would be a top-tier TV analyst but that he’s too competitive to stay away long.

  "I look at Tomlin and I think, Tomlin's a competitive guy. He's not a sit, put a nice suit on and talk football. He could do it for a year and he'd probably be unbelievably great... He could do broadcasting. And he took the Denver job..." – Colin Cowherd [23:08]

• Mays: A year off would be beneficial—gives Tomlin space to reassess, build new staff or philosophy, and return fresh.

  "If I'm Mike Tomlin, I want to take a step back and for a year just visit with people around the league, talk to people... Just think about how you need to build things moving forward.” – Robert Mays [24:54]

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Most and Least Attractive Head Coach Vacancies

[13:58, 17:28, 19:23, 39:49]

• Most desirable jobs: Ravens (because of Lamar Jackson), Giants (thanks to Jackson Dart), Titans (potential with Cam Ward).
• Steelers and Cards rated near the bottom—lack of clear franchise quarterback, aging rosters, tough divisions.
• Cowherd and guests repeatedly state: "The best job is where your quarterback is at." [36:34, 39:49]
• On Packers and Matt LaFleur: Young roster, not underachieving, still has a ceiling—keep LaFleur.

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“Change Agent” Coaches: Immediate Impact Is Accelerating Turnover

[17:28, 29:09]

• Owners are motivated by model turnarounds—Vrabel, Jim Harbaugh, D'Amico Ryans, Mike McDonald, Ben Johnson, Liam Cohen—proving one coach can remake a franchise's fortunes almost overnight.

• Discussion: Even formerly hopeless franchises (like the Texans, Bears) now feel different, highlighting the right coach's transformative power.

  “You can convince yourself that if you get the right guy, you can change everything in an instant. And as long as we have evidence that points to that, I think you're going to see owners operate this way.” – Robert Mays [29:49]

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Tomlin’s leadership and exit:

  "We were in a place with both the Steelers and Mike Tomlin where it was mutually beneficial for them to go their separate ways... It's a reset, even if it's not a rebuild." – Robert Mays [12:07]

• Philosophy on head coach hiring:

  "You start looking at all these coaches that have worked. I mean, Mike McCarthy goes to Dallas, he won 12 games three times. He inherited Dak. Try to find the guys that go to an organization that have no idea what they're doing at quarterback because that's the Steelers." – Colin Cowherd [36:34]

• On taking a year off:

  "Guys can benefit from a year off. If I'm Mike Tomlin, I think that where I would sit back and evaluate who I was as a coach and what did I need to be moving forward would be in how you build your staff..." – Robert Mays [24:54]

• On rapid coaching turnover:

  “Owners used to be worth 650 million. Now they're worth 4 billion. And they can just write those checks. They can just clean the staff out. Here's 60 million. I'm starting over.” – Colin Cowherd [28:20]

• On the power of one coaching hire:

  "Think about the way the Bears are talked about... Ben Johnson's been there for 11 months. And how different does it feel? It feels so different. And I think that's why there's an allure to this, because you can convince yourself that if you get the right guy, you can change everything in an instant." – Robert Mays [29:09]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic Description | |-----------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | [01:51] | Breaking news: Mike Tomlin steps down | | [11:09] | Introduction of Robert Mays and first reactions | | [12:07] | Was it time for Tomlin to go? Reset vs. rebuild | | [13:06]-[13:58] | Leading candidates and direction for Steelers’ hire | | [15:00]-[17:28] | Giants' needs, matching coaches to teams, impact of coaching market | | [19:23] | Why there are so many openings and the new head-coach market philosophy | | [23:08]-[24:54] | What should Tomlin do next? The precedent of Sean Payton, value of a sabbatical | | [26:40]-[27:37] | Any more openings coming? Eagles, Bills, trend-watching | | [29:09] | How fast one coach can change a franchise’s perception | | [34:16] | Steelers ownership releases statement and legacy appraisal of Tomlin | | [36:34]-[41:45] | Ranking attractiveness of current vacancies, deeper dive into Steelers' challenges |

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Final Thoughts

• The Steelers’ job is now a high-profile, but less-than-ideal landing spot compared to years past, chiefly due to the lack of an answer at quarterback and an aging, costly defense.
• Tomlin’s legacy is secure—Hall of Fame credentials, unmatched stability, and a place as the ultimate culture-builder.
• NFL head-coach market is shifting rapidly: owners want quick turnarounds, proven leaders, and—more than ever—the right quarterback in place.
• Tomlin’s next steps will be watched league-wide, with the consensus being that his story as a head coach isn’t over.

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(Summary by segment, reflecting Colin Cowherd's candid, incisive tone and the analytical depth of Robert Mays.)

Transcript

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You can download this episode and others from Lines and tines with Spencer Graves on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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On June 11, 1998, a deputy from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went missing.

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What really happened to the missing deputy? Valley of Shadows, a new series from Pushkin Industries about crime and corruption in California's high desert.

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Listen to Valley of shadows on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Thanks for listening to the Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports radio at noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio and it's just being reported. Mike Tomlin has officially stepped down after a historic 19 season run. According to Adam Schefter and Jeremy Fowler, the Steelers will be looking for their first coach, only their fourth coach since the late 60s, Kevin Stefanski. How sweet would that be. The Browns let him go. Two time NFL Coach of the Year, Pittsburgh picks him up. That's where I would go. And I'll be honest with you, I'm not so sure. The front office. I'm in love with either. I think it's the right move, people. Mike defebo on our show yesterday saying he knew Tomlin wouldn't be fired, but he could see him stepping down. And I don't know how those things get negotiated behind the scenes. But, you know, when, when, you know, fans are chanting, you know, fire Mike Tomlin, it's time. I, I think Mike will pick up a network job. I mean, I, I would be shocked if he was not on the phone this morning with his agent. He'll make. Don't, don't. I could give you the networks in order of where he's going to go. I'm not going to do that at this point. But, yeah, Mike, it's time. Like they. And by the way, I think it's not just Tomlin. I think Mike's going to take a year off, but because I don't think there's a lot of great jobs. I would not be shocked. The winner in this is the New York Giants. You know, now they've got Harbaugh, Stefanski and Mike Tomlin. Suddenly it went from a lean coaching market to the best in a long time. So stop with all the coordinators. If you can hire Tomlin, Harbaugh or Kevin Stefanski, you hire them like a variable, like a Harbaugh, like a Sean Payton. Stop messing around. So also, Tomlin is a culture guy. He's not a scheme guy. He's very much like Harbaugh and Vrabel. And so my take is what the Giants need. I mean, they could hire Stefanski. I think it'd be a good coach. The Giants need a culture guy. They're a mess. Well, that's what John Harbaugh is. That's what Mike Tomlin is. In fact, I'm just thinking in the recesses of my mind, did Tomlin say, listen, I saw Jackson Dart play. Harbaugh thinks he's got that job. I'm going to go steal that New York Giant job from John Harbaugh. These guys are all alphas, all competitive, but I think it's time. I think Pittsburgh needs a reset as an organization. It's easy to just blame Mike Tomlin, but the GM stepped down and they brought somebody that had been in house a long time. I think they need a young, high risk, high reward gm. I think they need to go get an offensive coach. If I was the Steelers, I would offer the job today to Kevin Stefanski. That that's what I would do. Go get an offensive coach and If I was Kevin Stefanski, I'd call Aaron and say, thank you so much. I'm gonna go find my next guy. I, I, I think a lot of these coaches, Aaron Glenn didn't, I don't think they want to inherit, they don't want to inherit Aaron Rodgers at 42. So NFL head coaching vacancies are now up to nine, including three of the four teams in the AFC North. So the Steelers, Ravens, Browns, Giants, Titans, Falcons, Cardinals, Raiders, Dolphins have openings. Ravens is the best job they have. Lamar good roster. I don't know if there's a clear two Steelers, Giants have some things I like about both. Again, when I, when I said a couple years ago I'd move TJ Watt and get more picks, that was outrageous. TJ's over five in the playoffs. How outrageous is it? Yeah, I don't there's a bunch of bad jobs and then there's the Ravens job. I think you'd probably say Giants, Steelers. I like some stuff on the offensive side, plus Abdul Carter for the Giants. And I like the, I mean the Steelers have a Packers feel like, you know, there's not a lot of chaos in the building, but I think they got to take some swings upstairs and on the sidelines. It's the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

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On June 11, 1998, a deputy from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went missing.

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It's an all out manhunt for John Ajay. Every search and rescue team in LA county has been called in to help.

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Within days, tips started flooding into the sheriff's department.

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The rumor around the drug scene was that a deputy was taken care of.

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Is this the story of a man who just got lost in the desert? Or of a cover up inside the nation's largest sheriff's department?

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A homicide captain saying, detective, do not find out if this guy's guilty or innocent. Who does that?

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Valley of Shadows, a new series from Pushkin Industries about crime and corruption in California's high desert.

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Do you have any advice for us while looking into this disappearance?

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Well, he's an NFL writer for the Athletic and the host of the Athletic football show. Robert Mays is sensational previously at Grantlin in the Ringer. And he is now joining us on the news that Mike Tomlin has decided to go. I. I think there's needs to be a house cleaning inside the organization. They spend too much money on defense. I think it's easy to blame Tomlin, who's an elite motivator. He'll be a great TV analyst or he'll, or he'll get the Giants job. I mean, it's, it's that New York Giants, you know, the winner in this, Robert, the winner is the Giants. They got Harbor, Stefanski and Tomlin. That's a, that's pretty meaty. The other winner to me is Brian D. Because now we have nine openings. And I thought he was on the edge of getting a job, but with nine, I think Brian Dabel winning a playoff game with Daniel Jones now gets a head coaching job. What? Let's start with Tomlin, though. You did a show right after the game last night and after the loss. Let's start with what your initial reaction was on Tomlin.

[Colin Cowherd]

That it was time. I think it was time for both sides. And I never thought that the Seawors would fire Mike Tomlin, and they didn't. I think it was going to be a conversation, and I feel like we were in a place with both the Steelers and Mike Tomlin where it was mutually beneficial for them to go their separate ways. This had run out of road on so many different fronts, and we could talk about this, but the Steelers are poised to. To go from being one of the oldest teams in the league to kind of having a little bit of a youth movement. They have a ton of picks this year. They can move on from guys like TJ Watt and Cam Hayward over the next couple years. It's a reset, even if it's not a rebuild. And I feel like somebody else coming in with a new vision to kind of shepherd that version of the organization that made sense for them and for Tomlin. You have no pathway to a quarterback right now if you're the Steelers head coach. I think him either taking a year away the same way Sean Payton did, or just moving to a different situation where the team is position differently for both parties. I felt like this was the right time to say goodbye and so I'm not shocked or surprised to see this.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Who do you think is the leading candidate for that job?

[Colin Cowherd]

It's a great question because I heard you say earlier that you could see them going with an offensive coach and I would completely understand that. If they wanted to go with a guy like Kevin Stefanski, I do think that's pretty far removed from what the Tomlin era was. I think that's appealing in some ways. I get that. I also think this is an organization that has not been afraid to do things that are unconventional. When they hired Mike Tomlin, he was a 35 year old kind of anonymous assistant that they thought was the right guy for the job. And so I wouldn't be surprised if all the options were on the table. I think a lot of organizations do want to do something that's distinct from what just came before it. I don't know if the Steelers are necessarily going to jump at that. I feel like there are going to be a lot of different kinds of candidates that they consider for this sort of job. Kind of in the same way that the Ravens seem to be.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Yeah. Wow. Does this change? I mean, I would think now I said about an hour ago, Aaron Rodgers retires or goes to the Vikings. I didn't think he was going to run it back. Now that Tomlin's gone, does that change the Aaron Rodgers equation?

[Colin Cowherd]

I think it makes it less likely. I just don't understand why you would kind of pigeonhole yourself into that version of the team when again, it feels like you're kind of closing the book and starting a new here. They have seven picks in the top four rounds this year and five picks in the top 100 already. On offense they have one of the youngest offensive lines in the league. And on defense, there are a lot of guys that I do not think will be back next year. If you are kind of transitioning to a different version of the team. Jalen Ramsey, Darius Slay was on the team this year. Again, they were one of the oldest teams in the NFL. I expect them when we wake up in the middle of next season and you look at the ages of these rosters to be one of the youngest teams in the NFL and I'm just not sure how a 42 year old Aaron Rodgers jives with that.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Okay, let's talk. Let's talk New York Giants. So I, I've always felt the Ravens could use a play caller. That just is kumbaya with Lamar Jackson. Let's get the Lamar thing right. It's his franchise. I could see Stefanski being a great fit. The Giants need a culture guy. They've had a warped culture for a decade. To me, that screams Tomlin and Harbaugh. Not that Kevin couldn't do it, Robert, but I think I just think of Stefanski as quarterback, strong, offensive minded. If I give you, I mean, would Tomlin even be interested in the Giants or do you think he does TV and Harbaugh is the leader in the clubhouse in New York?

[Colin Cowherd]

If, if Tomlin wants a job, I think he should be interested in the Giants. I was talking to somebody who's been interviewing for a lot of these jobs over the last couple of weeks a few days ago, and we were talking about how you stack up the priorities for why these jobs are appealing and why they aren't. And we were trying to kind of tear out. If you were talking about quarterback ownership, the quality of the roster, all of this, how would you do it? And his first thing was quarterback and ownership, I think should be at the top. And if that's the case and you look at the Giants, even if you're worried about the gm, even if you're worried about certain elements of the roster, they at least have a promising young quarterback. And the ownership there is stable. There's stability there. There's going to be patience there. I think the Giants as an organization are more attractive to people in the NFL than they are to the general public right now because of how bad they've recently. And so I think that makes sense for John Harbaugh.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Well, yeah, it's like when Brady went to the box. They needed a right tackle and they got Tristan worse. Then he brought Gronk down. They knew if they could shore up the O line, everybody knew, like, oh, that's, that's a really, really interesting roster because Jason Light's been a great GM forever. I look at the Giants similarly. Get a right tackle. It is a, it's a tackle. Heavy draft. If I'm the Giant. If you told me John Harbaugh, they solve right tackle, Scatterboo Jackson, Dart neighbors, Andrew Thomas in that division. I don't listen, we just saw this with Vrabel, Ben Johnson and Liam Cohen. And by the way, let's talk about that three guys, Mike McDonald, the year before, three guys came in and took messes, some of them disasters and cleaned them up. Is that maybe why we have nine openings?

[Colin Cowherd]

I think it has to be. And I think the Seahawks are actually a really good parallel to what we're looking at with the Steelers. Pete Carroll had been consistently good for a very long time. They're constantly in the mix the exact same way the Steelers were. But you had questions about the ceiling. This is a team that hadn't won a playoff game in seven, eight years. They were consistently getting bounced early. When they did get in, it didn't feel like they had a ceiling as an organization. And you get to the end of that 2023 season and say, you know what, Pete, we appreciate everything you've done. It's time for us to move in a different direction. You go get a Mike McDonald who's on the cutting edge defensively in the NFL. He is the Sean McVay of that side of the ball. And you have seen the ways that he has lifted the ceiling for that team. And I think the Steelers are in a very similar situation. And when you have these guys that can come in in one year and you see this huge jump not only with the wins and losses, but with the ceiling of the team, feels like I think you're going to see more and more owners have a quick hook because something like that could be on the table.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Marcus Freeman, Notre Dame opinion on him, like the NFL team circling back on him.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think it may be possible in this cycle because this cycle is strange with the candidate pool in most other years. I think defaulting to the offensive coach, that's my personal bias. If I'm trying to build the perfect archetype of NFL head coach just based on the percentages and which guys usually succeed and which guys usually win. I want the offensive play calling head coach in last year's cycle. I want Ben Johnson, I want Liam Cohen. There are not a lot of clear cut candidates that fit that model this year. Clint Kubiak, after one year with the Seahawks, has gotten a handful of interviews because he's really one of the only guys. And so I think because this pool specifically doesn't fall in line with what organizations have been chasing over the last few years, it opens the door for maybe a couple guys who don't fit the mold getting some of these jobs.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Man, this is really, really fascinating. Nine openings. I mean, just three weeks ago, if you just said Stefanski, John Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin, nine openings. Let me, let me throw a team we don't talk about a lot. I think the Titans is sneaky, interesting. I really, you know, I know Robert. They're a mess. I think Cam Ward's pretty talented guy. I think I'm going to throw this out there. Brian Dabel interviews Friday. Dable gets the Titans job. Does that sound crazy to you?

[Colin Cowherd]

No, it doesn't sound crazy because again, there aren't that many offensive coaches in the cycle. And if you're steadfast with Tennessee being like, we need an offensive coach to pair with Cam Ward, there are only four or five guys that I think are hot candidates that you're really thinking about. So if Dable was in the mix of that, I totally understand. With Tennessee specifically, they check a lot of the boxes. They have a quarterback who at least showed promise this year. The numbers are bad, but you could talk yourself into Cammore pretty easily. There's roster flexibility. They have resources to go out and spend and try to improve that thing quickly. The question with Tennessee is going to be ownership. How do you feel about going into a place that has been dysfunctional, that has been impatient, that has kind of changed the target and moved the goalposts a lot over the last five years? If you trust their new infrastructure with Mike Borgat as the gm, which had Brinker as the president, and you think that there is a newfound stability there that kind of insulates you from what Amy Adams trunk has done over the last few years. There are some parts of that job that I do think are pretty appealing.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

I have defended Matt LaFleur. I said he won the first half against Ben Johnson. I always feel the first half is the game plan and the script half. The second half, a lot of times that's off script. And Caleb Williams and Josh Allen and Mahomes make plays. But the first half's always felt like that's the week's work. Your first three series, that's the week's work. I thought Matt had a very good first half. When you look at the packers loss and I know it's over and lafleur is probably going to retain his job. Where do we point the fingers on it? Because I didn't think Ben Johnson, Robert, I thought he kind of over. I thought he was a little desperate going for it in the first half. I thought he got too cute too often. Just first playoff. You know, as the coach, I get it. Everybody in Green Bay, every Cheesehead, get him out of here. Where do you point the fingers with Green Bay's loss?

[Colin Cowherd]

I think the quality of the offensive line and their struggles in the second half had a big, big part in it. Their inability to run the ball in the second half, the fact that Jordan Love was pressured so much more than he was in the first half, I think you saw the fact that they had some component parts change out. They had a backup right tackle in there, they had a left tackle who's a solid player but not a great player is going to be hitting free agenc. See, this roster does not have a lot of stars on it. That was their problem over the last couple seasons. It was a good roster, but not a roster with a lot of high end talent. That's why you go out and get Micah Parsons. Well, Micah Parsons didn't play in that playoff game. Their right tackle, Zach Tom, might have been their best player on offense other than the quarterback. He didn't play in that game. And so in a lot of ways, The packers of 2023 and 2024, talent wise, are the team that showed up last weekend. And so you had a similar end that you've had over the last couple years. I frustrated. If you're a Packers fan, I don't want to diminish that, but I still feel like if you look at the results over the last three seasons, this hasn't really been a team that's underachieved. It's a team that just has kind of plateaued when we've gotten to the end of the year. But I think they're still young and I think there's still a ceiling here. And this to me feels different than the Tomlin conversation, than the Harbaugh conversation. If I were the Packers, I would want Matt Lafleur back. And so I'm not surprised that that's where it seems to be trending.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

By the way, I want to circle back to Tomlin. So. So Sean Payton left New Orleans and he came to Fox. And Sean and I went to dinner and we talked and we texted a lot. We talked every week we had an interview and we would talk before he went on the air, on the air and off the air. And the before and after was way better than the on the air stuff. And we talked a lot about it. And I, and I, and I kept saying, dude, you know, some of the analysts at Fox, you know, they don't want to do this stuff forever. Jimmy Johnson likes to fish. Okay. Like I said, stick around for about five years here and he's like, oh, no, yeah, maybe what we talk about the broadcasting thing. And he's just got too many things ruminating upstairs. There's no way he could do broadcasting. And he took the Denver job with that Russell Wilson cap. Hitting them like, yeah, you're in a division with Mahomes. I don't know if I like that. Well, it works. So I look at Tomlin and I think, Tomlin's a competitive guy. He's not a sit, put a nice suit on and talk football. He could do it for a year and he'd probably be unbelievably great. He's just. He's a quote. He's great. But what about this? That Mike Tomlin does a Peyton and says, I don't like the coat, I don't like the job pool in one year. Now, the Green Bay thing could be. I guess my take is Dallas could come. Schottenheimer may get one more year, right? Looks like he will. Do you think there's a play for Tomlin to do TV for a year? And then like Sean Payton who said, oh, the richest owners in the league, oh, we got a first round pick and it's a great quarterback draft. Do you think there is a possibility that in a year, if we got nine this year, that maybe better jobs happen in a year from now?

[Colin Cowherd]

I'm sure Sean saw the check and didn't really mind that Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid were waiting around. They seem to enjoy that and I don't blame him whatsoever. I think with the quality of the jobs with Tom, and I think that matters a little bit less just because I think he'll have options when he comes to it. I think there will always be a job in every cycle that is probably worth taking if you're Mike Tomlin. The year off to me is most interesting because I think guys can benefit from a year off. If I'm Mike Tomlin, I think that where I would sit back and evaluate who I was as a coach and what did I need to be moving forward would be in how you build your staff and how you seek out coordinators on both sides of the ball. That's massively important. When you're a coach like Mike Tomlinson, who is one of these CEO type head coaches. The guys who've been successful in that role who've gotten further than the Steelers have over the last couple years are the guys that have been really good at finding the right people. That's why I have faith in John Harbaugh in his Next stop, in a way I might not have with a Pete Carroll, is that John consistently in Baltimore, understood when he needed to change out coordinators and why he hires Mike McDonald. He goes and gets Todd Monk in when the Greg Roman things runs out of road. If I'm Mike Tomlin, I want to take a step back and for a year just visit with people around the league, talk to people. Who should I be seeking out? What should my offense look like? Who are the people that I should build my staff with? Just take yourself out of that small kind of insulated world when you're the head coach and your head is down all the time and just think about how you need to build things moving forward for you to be successful. Because I think if he surrounds himself with the right ideas, he is such a good coach and a good motivator that that overall construction and that overall model that would be appealing to me if I were an owner trying to fill one of these jobs.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

How about this? Nine openings. Do you think it's possible based on either results this weekend or a Bashati John Harbaugh, bad phone call, there'll be another job opening. Or do you believe the Browns, Cards, Dolphin, Falcons, Giants, Raiders, Ravens, Steelers, Titans? Is it or there or there's just one that you're kind of wondering about. Any.

[Colin Cowherd]

I don't know what that would be. Eagles. Eagles, maybe. I'd be surprised about that. I think they won the super bowl last year. They've had enough evidence where if they have the right coordinators in that building, they can be successful and competitive. I think they swap out the offensive coordinator before they move on from Sirianni. I think 2026 becomes all right. We got to see it before we decide whether we want to go in a new direction. I think they stayed the course. The other one that obviously we've talked about over the last couple of years is what happens with Buffalo. I think. Right. You watch what they did on defense against the Jags last week.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

The Bills. The Bills defense and how well coached that Bill's defense has been in certain moments when they don't have a lot of talent. I honestly think even if it ends in the divisional round, this is the year I have felt best on what McDermott is providing for the Bills than I have over the last couple years. And so on that front, I think I'd be surprised if they moved on. And I think that's really the only one that even might make sense given the teams that are left.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Robert Mays, the athletic football show. Terrific well, that Mike. Mike Tomlin detour for the last 15 minutes, it's. It is nine openings is the most since 2022. So. Wow, this is just wild. Robert.

[Colin Cowherd]

Is end of an era. It really is.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

It really is. No, I mean, it's like this is something I talked about several years ago. Owners used to be worth 650 million. Now they're worth 4 billion. And they can just write those checks. They can just clean the staff out. Here's 60 million. I'm starting over. I made that yesterday on my tech stocks. You know, I mean, it's just a different world. They're more impulsive. But to your point, they're watching Vrabel and Jim Harbaugh and Liam Cohen and. And. And Mike McDonald, and they're like, yeah, I'm gonna do this. Just get the right guy. D'. Amico. Ryan's. Before d' Amico got that job, I thought Houston was the biggest hazmat spill in the league. An hour before he took that job. Nick Kasseri. I mean, didn't we think five years ago, four years ago, the worst franchise? Honestly, wasn't it Houston?

[Colin Cowherd]

It was the most forgettable franchise. It was the most irrelevant franchise in the league. They existed in complete anonymity for, like four years. But it. You just feel how differently things can change. Think about the way the Bears are talked about when it comes to ownership and the quality of the organization and their entire reputation for the last five to 10 years. Ben Johnson's been there for 11 months. And how different does it feel? It feels so different. And I think that's why there's an allure to this, because you can convince yourself that if you get the right guy, you can change everything in an instant. And as long as we have evidence that points to that, I think you're going to see owners operate this way.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Robert, great stuff as always.

[Colin Cowherd]

Thanks. Appreciate it.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Wow, nine openings. Yeah, I mean, Marcus Freeman. Keep your eye on Brian Dable, Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh, Kevin Stefanski. Mike. I'll throw this up. Mike McDaniel may get a second opportunity, you say. Well, I mean, Miami didn't end well. Got to the playoffs twice. Wasn't him as a GM. I mean, Mike McDaniel and Brian Dabel have got to be thinking, nine openings. I'm getting work, and I don't. I don't necessarily think it would be a bad thing. The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of.

[Colin Cowherd]

The Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Spencer Graves]

Lines and tines with Spencer Graves on the iHeartRadio app is a podcast designed for hunters and fishermen to enjoy success.

[Hunter/Fisherman Guest]

I like the idea of like, hey, put me on a big deer. You know, hey, there's a big deer out here. He's doing this. Be looking for this deer. But I also love doing it on my own. I love going out there and saying, running my cameras. I love patterning the deer. I like showing up at the right time, checking the wind, knowing what stand I need to be in. And then whenever it all comes together and it happens, that's the most sad, satisfying thing ever. So when you do it on your own, it's like, I then can hang my hat. But if I had somebody say, hey, pull up on these dots and catch them right here and you're gonna win. And then when I go in, it's like, yeah, it's cool, I won the tournament. The ultimate goal is done. But it's like, dude, when you find them and you make them bite, that's the puzzle. I love it.

[Spencer Graves]

Listen to lines and tines with Spencer Graves on the iHeartRadio app. After Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Hinojosa]

I'm Maria Hinojosa, host of Latino usa. Venezuelans around the world are celebrating the takedown of former President Maduro. But inside the country there is fear and silence. And in the United States, people are concerned about Donald Trump's rogue tactics. Listen to Latino usa, the fall of Maduro and the rise of an unconstrained Trump. That's on your iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Narrator]

On June 11, 1998, a deputy from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went missing.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's an all out manhunt for John Ajay. Every search and rescue team in LA county has been called in to help.

[Pushkin Industries Narrator]

Within days, tips started flooding into the sheriff's department.

[Katie Couric]

They boomer around the drug scene. Was that a deputy was taken care of.

[Podcast Narrator]

Is this the story of a man who just got lost in the desert? Or of a cover up inside the nation's largest sheriff's department?

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

A homicide captain saying, detective, do not find out if this guy's guilty or innocent. Who does that?

[Pushkin Industries Narrator]

Valley of Shadows, a new series from Pushkin Industries about crime and corruption in California's high desert.

[Podcast Narrator]

Do you have any advice for us while looking into this disappearance?

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

I wouldn't do it alone.

[Pushkin Industries Narrator]

Listen to Valley of shadows on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Atlanta Is Podcast Narrator]

Like if we're on the air here and I Literally have my contract here and I'm looking at, you know, as soon as I sign this, I'm gonna get a seven figure check. I've told them I won't be working here in two weeks.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Weeks.

[Atlanta Is Podcast Narrator]

From the underground clubs that shaped global music to the pastors and creatives who built a cultural empire, the Atlanta Is podcast uncovers the stories behind one of the most influential cities in the world. The thing I love about Atlanta is that it's a city of hustlers, man. Each episode explores a different chapter of Atlanta's rise, featuring conversations with Ludacris, Will Packer, Pastor Jamal Bryant, DJ drama, and more. The full series is available to listen to now.

[Maria Hinojosa]

Now.

[Colin Cowherd]

I really just had never experienced anything like what was going on in the city as far as, like, you know, seeing so many young, black, affluent creatives in all walks of life. The church had dwindled almost to nothing. And God said, this is your assignment. And that's like how, you know, like, okay, oh, you from Atlanta for real. I ain't gotta say too much.

[Maria Hinojosa]

I'm Grady, baby.

[Colin Cowherd]

Shut up.

[Atlanta Is Podcast Narrator]

Listen to Atlanta is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

All right. Mike Tomlin's out in Pittsburgh. He informed the team today, the Rooneys, that he was moving on. Art Rooney II released a statement. And you know, it's always classy. The Steelers are highly regarded. They take care of their own, basically, you know, during our meeting, Coach Tomlin informed me he decided to step down. I'm grateful to Mike. Dedication, success, we've shared over 19 years. Hard for me to put into words the level of respect and appreciation I have for Coach Tomlin. Guided the franchise to our sixth Super bowl championship playoffs 13 times during his tenure. Won the AFC north eight times in his career. Track record of never having a losing season, likely never be duplicated. My family and I, everybody connected to the Steelers management, forever grateful for the passion and dedication Mike Tomlin has devoted to Steelers football. I mean, he's a Hall of Fame coach. The resume is a Hall of coach. I. I also think you can be a Hall of Fame CEO and a Hall of Fame coach and feel like you're not current. I don't necessarily think the Steelers under Tomlin have felt current. Right. They still need the kids to get online. Like, they're just not quite current. That doesn't mean if he hired a brilliant oc, it couldn't help. I think Arthur Smith and Aaron Rodgers were a little duct tape on sort of the cultural issue with them. Which is they just spend too much damn money on the wrong side of the ball. So here's Robert Mays from the Athletic. Earlier on, Tomlin stepping down.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think it was time for both sides. And I never thought that the Sealers would fire Mike Tomlin, and they didn't. I think it was going to be a conversation, and I feel like we. We were in a place with both the Steelers and Mike Tomlin where it was mutually beneficial for them to go their separate ways. The Steelers are poised to go from being one of the oldest teams in the league to kind of having a little bit of a youth movement. They have a ton of picks this year. They can move on from guys like TJ Watt and Cam Hayward over the next couple years. It's a reset, even if it's not a rebuild. And I feel like somebody else coming in with a new vision to kind of shepherd that version of the organization. That made sense for them.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Yeah, I would go with offense. I think I would consider Brian Dable. I would consider Kevin Stefanski. I want somebody that's been a head coach. I mean, the coordinator stuff is a 50, 50 proposition. Now, you hit it out of the park with Ben Johnson, but we were talking about Ben Johnson for three years, like he was the talk of the league for three years. Josh McDaniel also had multiple opportunities and didn't work. Liam Cohen did. So there is no guarantee. But by the way, Ben Johnson inherited Caleb Williams. Pretty talented guy. Liam Cohen inherited Trevor Lawrence. Pretty talented guy. Whoever takes a Steelers job, they don't have a quarterback. Whoever gets the Giants has Jackson dart. So we all say, oh, Ian Cohen. Yeah, but he had a quarterback. Oh, Ben Johnson, he had a quarterback. Oh, Mike Vrabel, he had a quarterback. Sean Payton drafted a quarterback he loved. That was a Drew Brees comp. So these coordinators that you or any of these coaches, you got to have the quarterback, right? I'll be honest with you. If I'm Mike Tomlin, you know what interests me? Nine months, Dallas Cowboys, they got Dak Prescott. All these guys, even the legends, even the Sean Paytons, even the variables, even the, you know, all the big guys, the Jim Harbaughs. Yeah. You get Justin Herbert or you get Trevor Lawrence or you get somebody as talented as Caleb Williams. What worries you about the Pittsburgh Steelers and what's great about the Ravens is you get Lamar Jackson. That's where the Ravens jobs by far and away the best. You take the Ravens over the Steelers 10 out of 10 times, I get Lamar Jackson. I would take The Giants over the Steelers. I have Jackson dart. Okay, so Steelers right now is the third job. Who's the quarterback? Aaron's not the answer. And Aaron's personality is not the kind that like a Stefanski would go, yeah, that, that's, that's, that's not it. I mean, the vikings knew that JJ McCarthy couldn't stay healthy and they had huge concerns and they passed on Aaron. So I don't think Aaron's going to be the cle. That, that's not an attractive thing. I think it was attractive for Tomlin knowing the end was coming. It's not going to be for like a first time coach or a second time coach. Aaron's not going to be that attractive. So I think the best job is where your quarterback's at. You start looking at all these coaches that have worked. I mean, Mike McCarthy goes to Dallas. He won 12 games three times. He inherited Dak. Try to find the guys that go to an organization that have no idea what they're doing at quarterback because that's the Steelers. And I honestly, I think Tomlin knows. Tomlin's smart. Tomlin's like in one year, cowboy job, potentially. I mean, start looking around the league. Next year I'll throw another one out. There's talk about Andy Reid retiring in a year. McDermott loses this weekend by three touchdowns. I mean, I'm just, I'm saying we got nine openings. We could have 10, we could have another nine next year. So, you know, keep your eyes open. Mike McCarthy, by the way, is from Pittsburgh. Keep your. You think I'm crazy? J. Mac. Mike McCarthy is from Pittsburgh. Yeah.

[NFL Analyst/Commentator]

There's no way Mike McCarthy's taking this job. Colin, listen, Mike Tomlin had an amazing run, but this is not an attractive job opening. I get the whole ownership thing, stability, all that. Wonderful. All the guys that took over. Mike Tomlin taking over for Cower had a quarterback and Ben Roethlisberger just won a Super Bowl. I would argue Pittsburgh is the 8th or 9th most desirable job on the market right there with Arizona. Colin. I just look, they've got the second oldest roster in the league.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

They got a bunch of draft picks.

[NFL Analyst/Commentator]

Yeah, a bunch of draft picks. I look at blue chip talent, I see maybe Joey Porter Jr. Jalen Ramsey's declining. I like highsmith. Cam Hayward is your highest graded PFF player. He turns 37 in two months. They don't have a quarterback. They're in a brutal division. There's really nothing attractive about this job other than the ownership. I mean, Tennessee at least you got Cam Ward. The Giants, he got Jackson Dart. Atlanta's. I mean, you. You just need a quarterback. All the pieces in place. I look at Pittsburgh, this is a major rebuild and, you know, following a legend is tough.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Well, right.

[Maria Hinojosa]

We.

[NFL Analyst/Commentator]

We love Bill Kraft as an owner in New England. Okay, well, guess what? Following Belichick, Gerard Mayo.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

How.

[NFL Analyst/Commentator]

How long did the owner keep stick with Mayo? He was gone in a year.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

But he was over. Careful. Well, he was over.

[NFL Analyst/Commentator]

I'd be careful taking this job.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Ravens, you get Lamar Jackson. Giants, you get Jackson Dart. Raiders, you get Fernando Mendoza. Titans, you get Cam Ward. Those are the four places I get a quarterback I can win with.

[NFL Analyst/Commentator]

Cleveland is not a desirable job. You know, they. They will see with Shador, I don't think he's the guy, but I'm just telling you, this Pittsburgh roster, go look at the salary cap. They do have some space, but, like, is DK Metcalf their second or third best player on the roster? The kid they drafted out of Georgia?

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Bryant Jones, all about stay healthy, doesn't matter. I mean, I get that, but does it matter? Yeah, they don't have a quarterback.

[NFL Analyst/Commentator]

Well, you tell that to Mike McCarthy. Hey, Mike, you want this job? I would almost guarantee he'd pass.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Yeah, I don't think it's that attractive. I want a quarterback. Cam Ward for four years is free. Fernando Mendoza for four years will be free.

[NFL Analyst/Commentator]

What's the path to a quarterback for Pittsburgh? Because they've been on this 9 and 8, 10, 6, 10, 7. Hamster wheel. I'd rather be 4 and 13. So you @ least get bites at the.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Apple. Up.

[NFL Analyst/Commentator]

High. I mean, it's. Pittsburgh's in a tough spot. Listen, they had a great run. Nothing lasts forever. I think we're looking at some.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Dark days ahead if you're Pittsburgh with all these picks. My takeaway, you give out about six of them to go get Ty Simpson in the first round. Say what you want, it's.

[NFL Analyst/Commentator]

Something. Oh, boy. I mean, that's all grabbed Ty Simpson before the Steelers.

[Katie Couric]

Do. Come.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

On. I wouldn't wish that upon anybody. I mean, they have seven draft picks in the first four rounds. The Steelers have the ammo. Go get Ty Simpson. Move up. You have to move up 25 spots. Move up.

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[Spencer Graves]

Done. A man with down syndrome tries the impossible, the grand slam in turkey.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Hunting. 4:53 hits were legal shooting, and.

[Colin Cowherd]

He gives us this one last chust and he pitches off. And when he pitches off, he.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Flies right into the gun.

[Colin Cowherd]

Barrel. I said to the cameraman, do you have him? He said, shoot him. I said, justin.

[Spencer Graves]

Shoot. You can download this episode and others from Lines and Tines with Spencer Graves on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your.

[Podcast Narrator]

Podcasts. On June 11, 1998, a deputy from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went.

[Colin Cowherd (Host)]

Missing. Hey, if they'll kill a cop and bury him, what are they gonna do to.

[Pushkin Industries Narrator]

Me? What really happened to the missing deputy? Valley of Shadows, a new series from Pushkin Industries about crime and corruption in California's high.

[Podcast Narrator]

Desert. Listen to Valley of Shadows on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your.

[Katie Couric]

Podcasts. If you only listen to one thing to make sense of the news this year, make it this. The final episode of this season of Next Question pulls together the most important conversations of the year. You'll hear David Graham on Project 2025, Liz Oyer on the plethora of presidential pardons, Tina Brown on the year's biggest scandals here at home and across the pond, plus much, much more. It's a crash course in the last 12 months, how we made it through the year, and a look at what might be coming in 2026. Listen to next Question with me, Katie Couric on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your.

[Colin Cowherd]

Podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed.