← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
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- [00:00]
Rachel
This is an I Heart podcast Guaranteed
- [00:03]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
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- [01:26]
Jason
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- [01:57]
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- [03:32]
Derek Ray
Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
- [03:38]
Jason
How lucky are we on this show? We got to talk to Derek Ray recently and he's back. Fox Sports Soccer announcer has called games at every World cup since 1990. Derek, thanks for taking a few minutes here to join us again. I'm just curious. The Spain 1 Nothing win over Argentina, not exactly thrilling in the finale. What were your thoughts on the match?
- [04:03]
Derek Ray
Hi Jason, thanks for the invitation. Once again, it was not a great final. It wasn't a wonderful spectacle, but I'm not sure it was ever likely to be. And I remember on Sunday, actually, just thinking back, talking with a few friends and saying this for me, reminds me a bit of the 1990 World cup final. West Germany as they were at the time against Argentina and it was a very1990s performance from Argentina. I don't totally blame them because I think it was the only chance they actually had of winning that final against Spain. It was always going to be a lot of Spain possession and Argentina were going to struggle to get the ball off them. And it was a matter of staying in the game, grinding it out and trying to either nick a goal, perhaps from a set play, perhaps from a moment of messy magic, or more likely penalty kicks didn't go that far. The right team won. I think anybody of fair mind would say that.
- [05:02]
Jason
I am just curious. Argentina was so, I don't know, dirty. Can I say that? I don't know. It just felt like they weren't really playing soccer and like you said, they were just trying to muck it up.
- [05:13]
Derek Ray
I don't know.
- [05:13]
Jason
I want to say Argentina, I thought, got lucky. Derek, I'm sorry. I think they got lucky to beat England. They got lucky to come back against Egypt. They're calling that, by the way, the biggest comeback in World cup history. Given the time and deficit is lucky too harsh a word for Argentina here,
- [05:29]
Derek Ray
I think I would not go as far as to use the word luck. What I would say is that Argentina had the more favorable draw compared to the other half of the draw. And you make your own luck, you know, I think, yeah, you know, Cabo Verde, first of all, that could have gone the other way. But to be fair to Argentina, they were never down in the game. So there wasn't that element of jeopardy. Egypt, I go along with you. And as we mentioned last time I commentated on that game in Atlanta and that was gripping until the end. And that really was the comeback of the World cup because the reigning world champions were on their knees. They were on the precipice of going out, but they found a way and again, some will point to a big refereeing decision in that game, but they still had to do it. They still had to to push their way through that door and they managed it. Same against England. I mean, I would actually take my hat off to Argentina for what they did in the final 25 minutes of that match against England. And they showed us their attacking face. That was Messi at his best and all the others chipping in as well. I just think they knew that Spain were a different proposition and Spain were the best team and we saw that throughout. And in order to topple the best team, if you're Argentina, you did have to take on that sort of almost cartoonish way of playing and going back in time. But they didn't get away with it.
- [06:53]
Jason
Yeah, the dark arts. It was ugly. I mean, there's all these replays from the stands about Argentina players going down just to fake an injury. I don't know, I don't want to hammer them too hard. Real quick on that England, Argentina match. It really wounded me for a while, Derek. I was. I was big on England in that one. I was rooting hard. Can you just talk about the coaching strategy from Tuchel? I hated taking off Gordon, who was arguably their best dynamic wing. I didn't like that Saka didn't play a minute in that match. I don't know your thoughts, Derek.
- [07:26]
Derek Ray
I think you can certainly question the Saka decision. You can question a few things, but I have a feeling that what Thomas Tuchel had in his mind was what happened in the previous game against Mexico. Now, I'm not going to go as far as to say that Mexico are of the same level as Argentina, but that was a real test at a difficult venue at the Azteca. Hostile crowd and England were down to 10 men with Kwanzaa having been sent off, what happened in that game, England successfully shut up shop. Now again, Mexico lacked the guile that Argentina were to show in the match between the two countries. But I think it was almost a bit of a blueprint as far as Tuchel was concerned, thinking, okay, we've done this once, we know how to do this again. And had it come off, I think everybody would have been saying that was a managerial coaching masterclass by Fulham. But it didn't come off and Argentina had the wherewithal again. I think it's right to be critical of England, I absolutely do. But I think sometimes we're not giving Argentina enough praise for what was one of the performances of the entire tournament, the way they went about their business, the variety of balls that were played in there to trouble England. And yeah, England played into their hands, but I would give Argentina a big slice of the credit for their share in that for sure.
- [08:46]
Jason
When I look at players coming out of the World cup with like their stock up, Derek, like who formed that was outstanding, obviously. Kuber Yarcy, the Spanish 19 year old, he was incredible. That guy on the world stage was awesome. Shut down Mbappe Messi and Ronaldo. And I look at England and I thought Gordon was incredible and Jude Bellingham. And then I look at Argentina, honestly, Derek, who came out of that looking good, like, oh, wow, we got to make a play for him in the, in the, in the transfer world, like, I didn't think Argentina was that great.
- [09:19]
Derek Ray
And that's why I want to give them a bit more credit than maybe some people are giving them, because this was a pale shadow of the Argentina team that we saw in 2022. They were the best team in that World Cup. They fully deserved it. Many of the same soldiers, and I'm using that word deliberately, from 2022 they had to battle their way through matches and they made us all the way to the final. And we've said, yes, the draw was favorable compared to other countries, but they did it despite the fact that other than Messi, they didn't have frontline players at this World Cup. So a lot of it was down to the coaching of Lonel Scaloni, a lot of it was down to the circumstances, but they found a way. I think though, there is now going to have to be a bit of a clear out where Argentina are concerned and when it comes to future international tournaments. And again, let's take nothing away from Scaloni and what he's done with a couple of Copa America wins and the World cup but that generation is now fading and it's going to be a test of the new generation to see if they can live up to the one that's been so successful.
- [10:22]
Jason
Now that's an interesting take because obviously a lot of people are talking, Does Messi return in four years? He hasn't closed the door the way Ronaldo did during the World Cup. Ronaldo said, I'm done, you know, I'll be 45. Forget that Messi was only 39. I saw a stat that he scored like 15 of his 21 World cup goals after the age of 35 or something. Along those he's been unbelievable, aging like a fine wine. Why wouldn't he return in some capacity in 20, 30? Or Derek, to your point, maybe it's the end of an era and we move on, but I don't know. Fascinating situation for the new coach, whoever it is.
- [11:02]
Derek Ray
I would actually say that this is just my preference. It would be better for Messi not to come back and play in the next World Cup. Why do I say that? Because I think we want to have the good memories of Messi and I look at Ronaldo at this World cup and I think to myself, yeah, okay, Ronaldo did help from time to time, but I'm not sure that Portugal really needed him at this stage of his career. He was more or less operating just inside the penalty area and I think the argument that some have made that he was a bit of a hindrance to what they were trying to do as a team is valid. So, you know, I have wonderful memories of Messi. It's been a joy to cover him throughout multiple World Cups. I think sometimes there's a case for going out and saying, okay, I've done everything. I'm at the peak of my powers, I've done it now. And I'm not sure I'd want to see a diminished Messi or a part time Messi at a future World Cup. That's my opinion. Others might disagree. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Fox Sports Radio is taking over YouTube and you can be a part of it. Just go to YouTube and search Fox Sports Radio. Hit that subscribe button and smash that notification bell and catch all the videos from your favorite shows. Two pros and a cup of Joe Dan Patrick, Colin Cowherd, Stu Gotz and company Live Covino and Rich the Odd Couple with Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington the Jason Smith show with Mike Harmon and the Ben Maller Show Fox sports radio on YouTube.
- [12:31]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
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- [15:53]
Jason
That's a great take. We had Kobe Jones, the former US national team midfielder, on earlier and he said, why wouldn't Messi potentially be a player coach coming off the bench as a super sub, if you will, for 25 minutes finding energy. Ronaldo didn't seem to want any part of coming on as a substitute, but he also didn't want to come off and you know the international world better than I. Portugal apparently had a backup forward who was was awesome, scored the game winner against Croatia. They probably could have used him more. So I don't know is would you want to see Messi as a super sub or player coach?
- [16:28]
Derek Ray
Well, yeah, to your point. Gonzalo Ramos, that player who scored the winner against Croatia. I did feel a bit sorry for him because this maybe should have been his stage from a Portuguese point of view. You know, I love listening to Kobe. I enjoyed your chat with him earlier. I would probably go in a different direction on that and say for me, Messi 39 now, what's he going to be 43 the next world Cup? I'm just not sure. You know, he is superhuman and he is the player of his generation. He's maybe the player of all generations. But I think there does come a point where you, you call time on it and we've seen it from Ronaldo, we've seen it from Modric. Another of my favorites in terms of covering down the years and you know, four years still playing at this level. Not sure I quite see it, but I could be wrong.
- [17:16]
Jason
We could wrap up with a little U.S. soccer. Obviously Pochettino, he's got the offer on his desk to return as the US Coach. I don't know. The run up to the World cup, they were not great. There was a lot of chatter, geez, Pochettino, what do we have here? And then they delivered until the Belgium match. I'm just curious your assessment of what you saw from the US and then the second part of that would be, do they have an identity as a team or is that not able to do in just one year under Pochettino? They need maybe a larger window.
- [17:49]
Derek Ray
I think the hard thing for the USA is unlike, say, European countries or South American countries, they don't have these grueling qualifying campaigns. So it's quite difficult to build an identity when you're relying on these many tournaments, whether it's the Gold cup or now the Nations League, as we have now, or if the USA are in the Copa America, it certainly helps their development. But I think there've been some positive signs with Mauricio Pochettino, certainly in the tournament. Not as many positive signs immediately prior, but again, we're dealing with friendlies, so perhaps that's understandable. I think the interesting way to look at this is from his point of view, what does he want to do? And I have a feeling that he might want to return. And I say that because right now there's not an obvious club route for him in terms of getting back into the club game. And he might reckon that there's not a great deal of pressure in the short term, so maybe there's a chance to actually build on again some of the good things that have happened for the usa. He is expensive. There will no doubt be voices in the American soccer community that say, no, we don't need to be spending this sort of money. Maybe we should find an American who can take them to the next level. I find all that chatter very interesting. I mean, he's very credible. He's somebody who has worked at some of the best addresses in world football. And I do think we saw enough from Pochettino's USA to think that he can improve the team going on. But I think it will come down to what's in his mind, what he's thinking right now on the back of the World Cup. And sometimes you need a few days and a few weeks to digest it all.
- [19:26]
Jason
That's fair. I just wonder, do you. And you've seen a ton of European soccer. We look great employing his high press style against the likes of Bosnia, you know, Australia, we were fine. And then we step up in class against Belgium and it's like, whoa, this strategy does not work at all. And we got carved up and frankly, we got embarrassed. Do you think that the strategy that he wants to employ will work against Europeans?
- [19:53]
Derek Ray
It's a great question, and it's one that I think can be the question that we ask with regard to all high pressing styles. And it's Interesting. I talk a lot to coaches and sporting directors who believe in this style, and the good ones will all say, yeah, okay, we believe in high pressing, but we have to have a plan B when it comes to playing technically superior opponents or tactically superior opponents. So that, I think is the challenge for the high pressers of this world. It looks great when it comes off and it can come off against certain teams, but, you know, Belgium really took the USA to the cleaners, and I think a lot of people took note of that and thought, yeah, maybe that wasn't the right approach. Maybe it was the case that just too many players were off form on that particular day and maybe the circumstances of that game, around the game didn't help some of the players. But. But it's. It's one certainly to be aware of when it comes to the high pressing school.
- [20:49]
Jason
So that. That's a great point. Maybe he just had the wrong strategy for that game. But like you said about Argent or England, hey, playing defense worked against Mexico. Let's do it against Argentina. And maybe Pochettino said, hey, our high press worked against everyone else. Let's do it again, as opposed to shifting and giving him a different look. By the way, do you think assuming he returns, a four year window like would raise expectations for the US in 2030?
- [21:21]
Derek Ray
Well, I think that the pressure is always on the USA now because, you know, they are the big fish in the smallish pond that is concacaf, you know, in world terms. And so the expectations are always there. And it usually comes down to the USA and Mexico when it comes to honors in Concaca. But the USA fans see it differently. Of course, they want the USA to be permanently part of the conversation in terms of teams who go far. I always say that's very difficult because I think there's a tendency in the USA to think that once you've hit a certain level, and that level for the USA at the moment is around of 16, you never dip below that level. But I've been around long enough to know that there are many countries who will go up and go down and then go seriously down. So it's not something that you can predict. But I think that they wouldn't go far wrong with Pochettino. As I said, he has credibility. The players clearly believe in him. It's just a matter of whether that's the fit for the next four years. And both parties will have to have a long think about that.
- [22:20]
Rachel
Yeah.
- [22:21]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
All right.
- [22:21]
Jason
Derek Ray, FOX Sports Soccer announcer Amazing stuff. I learned a lot just now. Hope you guys did, too. Thanks a lot, Derek.
- [22:28]
Derek Ray
Thanks, Jason. All right.
- [22:29]
Jason
That was phenomenal. I'm still on a World cup high. I can't tell if you guys noticed or not. Anyways, let's go to Rachel with the news.
- [22:37]
Derek Ray
No, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herd line news.
- [22:42]
Rachel
Well, Jason, I want to go back to the biggest NBA free agency story of the summer. You know what I'm talking about? Jonathan Kaminga.
- [22:48]
Derek Ray
Right, Jonathan.
- [22:49]
Jason
Wait, did something happen?
- [22:51]
Rachel
Well, earlier this month, it seemed like he might end up on the Lakers. Really? Even just like a week ago. But those talks have reportedly stalled due to A, Kaminga's salary demands, and B, the Lakers not wanting to commit all the draft capital that they need to in a sign and trade with the Hawks. So right now it feels like there isn't much of a market for him elsewhere. And maybe those talks with the Lakers will come back around. But. But I gotta stress, if the Cavaliers don't get LeBron James, Jonathan Kaminga is absolutely their backup plan, and they will do what it takes to get him. So I guess you know I'm joking. Oh, it's the biggest free agency story, but the Cavaliers need someone like him. If they don't get LeBron, they need the athleticism, they need the space, speed, size on the wing. Do you think whether it's them or the Lakers or someone else, he can actually make a difference for a team as opposed to just being like a nice part?
- [23:40]
Jason
Yeah, he's one of these guys that people just love. I mean, they. They really think he could be a star. Rachel, if I gave you over under half an All Star game for Jonathan Kaminga in his career, what do you got?
- [23:52]
Rachel
Well, you know me, I think it depends on the fit, right? I always. I always say to you, it's 10% of the top. The top 10% of players in any sports league could play anywhere. The bottom 10% will stink anywhere. The 80% in the middle is about what team are you playing for? Who are the people around you? What about the coach? We saw that in Golden State with Jonathan Kaminga, right. Like, he and Steve Kerr just never figured it out. And he really became sort of a liability there in some ways. Then he goes to the Atlanta Hawks, and he's not setting the league on fire, but he had a very nice debut season with the Hawks and was a real spark plug for them. Great in that first round playoff series until the Knicks turned it around. So. So I think with Kuminga, whether he makes an All Star Game or whether he has a big impact. I kind of think it depends on where he goes.
- [24:35]
Jason
I mean, Quinn Snyder's a good coach, Right. He's in Atlanta.
- [24:39]
Rachel
But they kind of need to get rid of him now because of the other moves they've made, the salary and the number of play. I think Atlanta's carrying like 17 players right now, so. Which you're not allowed to do.
- [24:48]
Jason
If they love Kuminga, wouldn't they not make those moves?
- [24:51]
Rachel
I didn't say they loved Kaminga.
- [24:52]
Jason
No, no. I'm just.
- [24:53]
Rachel
I said that if they like.
- [24:54]
Jason
How about if they like. I mean, it almost sounds like you're saying zero All Star Games. I will say that's not a knock.
- [25:00]
Rachel
I'm not saying that they wanted Lou Dort, like they went out and got Lou Dort. And those moves mean they're now over the amount of players they can start the season with.
- [25:07]
Jason
OG Anunoby, if stats are accurate. 0 all star games, huge difference maker. If Kuminga could be 80% of Jonathan Kaminga or Kamika could be 80% of OG, that would be incredible.
- [25:20]
Rachel
But if OG played on a team that didn't have other stars on it, which I don't think he's ever done, would he be an All Star? It really also depends on. That's a good question. Who else is on your team? How many Knicks are they putting on the All Star team? Like that kind of thing. And OG is probably the number three.
- [25:36]
Jason
Knick, I don't know, two or two or three. Real quick, Zaire Williams.
- [25:41]
Rachel
Yes.
- [25:42]
Jason
Song by the Lakers, Matisse Thible. And I know like 70% of the audience is like, who? You got to pay attention guys, those two guys. Can you recreate Jonathan Kuminga with Thible and the other guy I just named Zaire Williams?
- [25:59]
Rachel
Maybe. I mean, again, this. I need to see how this group, the group in green over there, you need to see how they actually fit on the court. And the same questions are, they're going to dog the Lakers at the beginning of the season. That dog them last season is you've got your main two stars, our offensive guys, who are considered by the rest of the league to be defensive liabilities. So do you have enough other guys who can defend on ball, who can make up for it on the back end? You know, 80% of their playoff points is gone from this roster. And obviously that's taking into account it was mostly LeBron and he's gone. But you also, guys like Rui Hachimura, you have other players that were a key Part of what the Lakers have been for recent years and they're gone now and Kuminka could be a real good boost for them. But again, once again, Jason, you said at the top of this show and the top of this hour that the Lakers don't have to worry about LeBron anymore. They kind of do because if the, if The Cavaliers get LeBron James, Jonathan Kumingo becomes much more available, possibly at a lower cost.
- [27:00]
Jason
So, Rachel, there's this some social media account, the basketball index, courtesy of producer Zach. This is a great find. According to their lineup analysis of the Lakers with Walker Kessler, Kessler Thible and Quinton Grimes starting, the lakers are a plus 14.5 net rating, plus 7.9 on offense, plus 6.6 on defense. So they went from a okay team and they are going to go to the stratosphere now. The projections are high for Kessler, obviously a defensive star on the interior.
- [27:28]
Rachel
You know what? Those projections don't take into account how many games Kessler plays.
- [27:33]
Jason
That's also a projection down. Come on the Jazz.
- [27:36]
Rachel
I just, I want sure to make projections like that are based on past performance. They're not based on his fit with this team, which I do believe is 80% of the players. It depends on their fit. Also, it doesn't take. It just takes into account his numbers when he's been on the court. Yeah. And when you're evaluating talent, one of the big questions you have to consider is how much is this guy on the court? By the way, Kessler could play 80 games this year. I don't know. I'm just saying he hasn't been able to do it.
- [28:00]
Jason
No, he better. I mean Kevon Looney, not much of a backup.
- [28:04]
Rachel
Go over to the NFL. The Broncos have a new offensive coordinator. I feel like we're talking about that a lot on this show. Sean Payton. I'm sorry, they don't have a new. New offensive play caller is the way I should put it because Sean Payton is handing over the keys to calling the offense and one of his jobs. Davis Webb is going to be making quarterback Bo Nix more consistent because over the last two seasons Knicks has actually led the league in fourth quarter comebacks, game winning drives. I mean that's pretty great, right? Like that Naybo Knicks first quarters, very different story. Jason Passer rating 79.8. Dead last out of the 33 qualified quarterbacks who have been around since he got into the league. So do you think different play calling can make a difference for Bo Nix? And we'll put up Their, their schedule in a minute. Like, I just, I don't know if Bo, Knicks is going to come out of this change better or worse or the same.
- [28:57]
Jason
Yeah. Fascinating situation by the way. You know, Peyton, I'm just curious how he reacts if all of a sudden they're struggling. They're, they're two and four after the first six, is he gonna take back play calling duties? I mean he moved off his guy for Davis Webb because other teams wanted Webb. That stat you had is not a great one. No, I, I, I don't see it with the Bronco. Maybe they're the team I pick. I'm looking. Remember last summer we were on here and I said no, no playoffs for the Chiefs.
- [29:26]
Rachel
Yes.
- [29:27]
Jason
And some people on the set may have laughed.
- [29:30]
Rachel
That was me. That was me, me, me, me, me. And, and you were right.
- [29:34]
Jason
I got maybe a little lucky. But look at those first six games. All teams that, you know, I mean, Patrick Mahomes, Jags were playoffs. Rams are loaded. Niners are good. Chargers, some people think, are we going to win the Super Bowl? Defending champions, Seahawks, can they go three, three in that stretch?
- [29:52]
Rachel
Look, here's what I do know with that tough stretch in the beginning, you cannot have a 78 passer rating in the first quarter because those teams, if you get behind will. They don't let you make the fourth quarter comebacks. The reason Bo Nix is sort of ahead in all these 4th quarter comeback stats is partly because he doesn't do so well at the beginning of games. So I do think that consistency will be just a huge key for Davis Webb and we'll have to, to see if he can pull it off because that consistency is what's going to help them get through that schedule if they're able to.
- [30:20]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yep.
- [30:21]
Rachel
I don't know. All right, let's stay in the NFL.
- [30:23]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Cam.
- [30:24]
Rachel
Scaboo, baby. We talked about him yesterday. We showed you he was at Fanatics Fest and he did this and did not stick the landing and did fall. And this is on a surgically repaired ankle and still gave himself props afterwards. Showed off the ankle. He's like, there's no bone going through my ankles. So you know, I can do this bad. Look, there are coaches who would have taken this as a really serious thing. He's, I told you not to do this. Which he did, by the way. You shouldn't be doing this. Why are you putting us in jeopardy? That was not John Harbaugh's reaction. Take a listen to what John Harbaugh had to say.
- [31:02]
Derek Ray
Yeah, my reaction Was, I haven't talked to him yet. I'm gonna talk to him, I'm sure, but. But my reaction was this, dude, at least stick it. You know what I mean? Land the thing if you're gonna do it. You know, that was my first reaction, so. But, you know, Scott's gonna be ready to go, and he's gonna be. He's been working super hard. He's really been training like crazy, man. His mind is on camp. You know, he's healthy, he's ready to roll, and I can't wait to see him out there at practice.
- [31:33]
Rachel
I thought that response was first of all fun, but also a little insightful into John Harbaugh's coaching style. How do you think Harbaugh is going to do with the Giants?
- [31:40]
Jason
Yeah, I mean, I think he went this route, Rachel, probably because anything else would have become a story and a brush fire. This kind of ends it. Hey, hey, I'll make a joke out of it. You know, privately, he was seething like, dude, what the hell are you doing?
- [31:53]
Rachel
I mean, I'm assuming it's not his favorite clip he's seen this week.
- [31:57]
Jason
Yeah, I mean, you can't spell Scatterboo without acl, so, you know, I'm sure Giants fans are just thrilled. By the way, how's Malik? Neighbors? Do we have an update?
- [32:06]
Rachel
I do not have an update on him, but, you know, I think with Harbaugh, it's gonna be interesting. I think you're right. He knows he's experienced enough. He knows he's gotta react like this if it's not gonna be a story. It also kind of speaks to, though, what we see in the public versus what he sees. He's talking about how hard he's working in practice, and, of course, what else is a good coach going to say? They're all working hard in practice. They're all competitive, Jason. They're all obsessed with winning, and they all work really hard in practice. And by the way, everybody's gained muscle after the offseason. These are the things everybody. But saying that and, like, making that point, I think kind of just shows us we're not watching all this stuff. We don't see all this stuff. We see a few reps. We don't see everything. And the fact that he has confidence that his mind is in the right place and that he's serious despite the bad backflip tells me something.
- [32:52]
Jason
And it looks like Jackson Dart just had lunch with JD Vance, so they got that going for him. Rachel, with the news.
- [32:58]
Derek Ray
Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the herd lie news.
- [33:03]
Jason
So LeBron's decision. Back in the day it was called the Decision. I'm calling this one the Indecision. That's next year on the Herd.
- [33:11]
Derek Ray
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am
- [33:15]
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- [36:35]
Jason
Back here on the herd. Breaking news, folks. Here we go. Nobody has any clue what LeBron James is doing. Nobod. Rachel and I are sitting here. So, Rachel, did you watch the Pablo Escobar show? You know, it became a meme where he was just sitting there in, like, his backyard. What's Narcos, Norcos? He was sitting there in his, like, swing in the backyard, just sitting there alone, just staring off. And it was like, we're just waiting. Yes.
- [37:05]
Rachel
Into the distance.
- [37:06]
Jason
This is what we're doing. We're just waiting for LeBron.
- [37:08]
Rachel
Let's make plans, Jason, while we're waiting, let's, like, climb a mountain.
- [37:11]
Jason
Let's climb a mountain.
- [37:13]
Rachel
I don't know.
- [37:13]
Jason
I'm not.
- [37:14]
Rachel
I mean, it could be a while. We were. The sense was after fanatics fest, he was gonna get closer to saying something. And there were some actual indications of that. That wasn't just speculation. But then Rich Paul comes out yesterday and says, we're not gonna be rushed. Which makes me feel like now they can't do it today or tomorrow because he just made a point. I don't know. We'll see. Maybe. Again, let's figure out some things we can do in the meantime.
- [37:39]
Jason
How much of this is ego? Like 90%.
- [37:42]
Rachel
Again, Rich addressed that. He said that, you know, the lack of information about what's really going on is leading people to say he's just doing it for attention. I don't know.
- [37:51]
Jason
You know how the sausage gets made, right? So the only stuff that's coming out is from executives of teams who are doing the same thing we're doing.
- [38:00]
Rachel
Yes.
- [38:00]
Jason
Speculating.
- [38:01]
Rachel
There is no knowledge, no one.
- [38:03]
Jason
They're not talking to LeBron. I'm sorry, guys, that's not happening.
- [38:06]
Rachel
Why do you think Pat Riley is going on in a podcast? Why do you think that Chris Finch is going on a podcast? Why do you think that? I mean, Bob Myers is going on a podcast Just so they can talk to LeBron through the podcast. They can't get a meeting with him.
- [38:20]
Jason
They're just. Even the NBA insiders who are breaking news people, they don't know. The only time they'll know is when they get handed the news to then tell us they're middlemen for this. And here's Ryan Hollins earlier talking about LeBron's waiting game.
- [38:34]
Derek Ray
Maybe it's become more complex than it speaks because again, you can say the competitive nature in Miami, the feel good story In Cleveland, the 50 minute flight, and apparently whatever it is in Los Angeles, he couldn't make it there or with the Clippers. That doesn't, you know, that didn't make sense for him. And then at that, you know, at his age, LeBron wants to be in a situation where he's wanted, where he's appreciated, and that's what I think the biggest thing for him is.
- [39:00]
Jason
So, you know, Rachel, I do like LeBron a lot. I'm a huge fan. I've said he's the goat. None of that's changing for me. My opinion on LeBron's not changing. I will say from an like, content perspective, I don't mind the wait, but there's literally no news and there's nothing happening. Like, there's not even like, hey, there's a lot of chatter that James Harden could get rerouted to Memphis. I don't know. But, but the longer this waits, the more I believe that this is going to be like a three or four team crazy trade with all kinds of moving parts. I just can't believe that LeBron sitting around for two weeks saying, hmm, today maybe I'm going to look at Detroit, tomorrow maybe Chicago. No, now it's Golden State.
- [39:42]
Derek Ray
Now.
- [39:43]
Jason
I just don't understand how he could sit there every day changing his mind. Like nothing else is changing unless stuff is changing. Does that make sense?
- [39:52]
Rachel
Makes sense. Absolutely. I think if stuff changes that will justify this wait. It will sort of be like, yes, we were waiting for Cleveland to make this move, we were waiting for Miami to make this move, that sort of thing. And LeBron has put pressure on teams before to do that sort of thing without them even knowing that they were going to get him. So that's not out of character. However, if one of those things doesn't happen, if it just comes out in the Next few days or whenever. Oh, this is the team I've picked. And I just wonder. You called it the indecision before the break. I do think the longer it goes on, the more danger LeBron is in of backlash coming. Because we talked about it yesterday, people in Cleveland were so upset about the original decision. Sure. Partly. Cause he left. Right. But the writing was on the wall through that season and especially the playoffs, that he was probably gonna go elsewhere. It was the way that he left that people felt like it touched that nerve of, like, people leaving the Rust Belt and sort of, you know, making their pain a money play, really, or a fame play to go do on a TV special like Vanna White or whatever. So I think that sort of. That feeling of, hey, don't you take how we feel seriously? And why would you do this to us? It's one thing to leave. It's another thing to, like, stomp on us out the door. And that's what caused that huge negative reaction. I was at his first game back in Cleveland. They threw batteries at him. Like, one went right over my shoulder. So if he doesn't go to Cleveland this time, and it's been three weeks, what if it's four weeks of people thinking they're gonna get him? And I don't know if there's a reason that's one thing. If there's no reason. To your point, I think he's in danger of another backlash.
- [41:28]
Derek Ray
I would agree.
- [41:29]
Jason
I'll come back to two things. Number one, when he went from Miami to Cleveland, wasn't there some announcement about, oh, no, wait, it was Cleveland. Andrew Wiggins. Remember, he had just been the number one pick, and LeBron did a big thank you and left Andrew Wiggins out. And then everybody's like, whoa, you didn't mention Wiggins. Next thing you know, Wiggins is traded.
- [41:48]
Rachel
Yes.
- [41:48]
Jason
Two things I keep coming back to here. James Harden opting out. And we've heard nothing about contract, what the extension could be.
- [41:54]
Derek Ray
We've.
- [41:54]
Jason
I know you might not have heard.
- [41:56]
Rachel
I've heard you.
- [41:57]
Jason
Okay. You've heard some stuff. Anthony Davis in Washington. About a month ago, we heard, oh, Warriors. Davis. That has been radio silent. I believe the warriors and Cavs are in a tug of war right now behind the scenes. What can we get? What can we do to make it more appealing for LeBron? And one of those two will be.
- [42:15]
Rachel
The James Harden situation is super interesting. He opted out of more than $40 million next year. He opted out, and that was to help Cleveland with LeBron. But also to get a longer term contract if they use that money, that cap hold to get LeBron and pay LeBron more and put James Harden on the shel. You know, hey, go find another team. That is going to really be an
- [42:36]
Jason
issue around the paying harden 40 million bucks.
- [42:39]
Rachel
I mean, well, that was his contract from a number of years ago. I mean, that's how it works.
- [42:43]
Jason
But no, there's nobody around the league. Oh, James, we'll take you on.
- [42:45]
Rachel
I'm telling you, if a player gives up $40 million on a handshake, you better do the handshake.
- [42:50]
Jason
All right, we'll see you tomorrow.
- [42:55]
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- [43:28]
Derek Ray
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- [43:59]
Rachel
This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. Every week the news gets worse. The world gets crazier, and Yamanika is here to tell whoever's responsible, you're the problem.
- [44:08]
Jason
Do you know I just found out who Sydney Sweeney was. If he got a bunch of women, then I should have a bunch of men do better or do less so I don't have to do so much. I'm Yamanika and I'm out. Listen to youo're the Problem with yamaneika on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My first guest is Paris Hilton, Shakira, Luke and Yerim.
- [44:35]
Rachel
Do you have surprises?
- [44:37]
Derek Ray
Many surprises. Welcome to the Sweet 305 podcast where
- [44:40]
Jason
the group chat comes to life.
- [44:41]
Derek Ray
What up?
- [44:42]
Rachel
You're the only person I know that loves a yellow starburst. It's lemonade.
- [44:47]
Derek Ray
This is Sweet305. Here. Oversharing is encouraged.
- [44:51]
Jason
Listen to Sweet305 with Lele Pons on
- [44:54]
Derek Ray
the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
- [44:57]
Rachel
you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.