THE HERD - Hour 3 - More on Rory McIlroy winning The Masters, do the Lakers have any chance in the NBA playoffs?

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd (Hour 3) – April 13, 2026

Episode Summary

This hour dives deep into the aftermath of Rory McIlroy’s historic Masters win, analyzes NBA playoff scenarios (especially for the Lakers, Rockets, and Knicks), and covers NFL news from QB trajectories to draft strategies. Highlights include an engaging interview with golf writer Alan Shipnuk about Rory’s unique persona and legacy, plus spirited panel debate on basketball stars, team leadership, and championship prospects.

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Main Themes

• Rory McIlroy’s Masters Triumph: What it means for his legacy and why this win was different, with exclusive insight from Alan Shipnuk.
• NBA Playoff Storylines: Assessing the Lakers' chances, the Kevin Durant experiment in Houston, and the Knicks’ rise and challenges in the East.
• NFL Postseason and Offseason: Analyzing quarterback fortunes after a Super Bowl loss, the Patriots’ outlook, and the landscape for Baker Mayfield and the Buccaneers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. NBA Playoff Picture: Can the Lakers Survive?

(02:29–11:55)

• Luka Doncic’s Possible Return:

  • Colin theorizes that if the Lakers can extend the series, Luka’s potential late return (following stem cell procedures) could be pivotal.
  • Jason McIntyre is skeptical but considers Game 6 or 7 as possible targets for Luka’s return, a move that could tip the series massively.

    “I would be very surprised if he’s back in this series. But… if they can extend it to a Game 6 and then Luka’s able to play, then I think the Lakers could pull it off.”
    – Jason McIntyre (03:36)

• Kevin Durant’s Leadership in Houston:

  • Debate about Durant's inability to transform Houston into contenders, despite being acquired to be the "final piece."

    “A lot of people want to push him into the top 10 all time... But he’s not a top 10 player. Most of those top 10 guys had the intangibles, whether it was leadership, a killer instinct, something that set them apart.”
    – Jason McIntyre (05:38)

• Denver as a Contender:

  • Nuggets have the experience and clutch performers, but injuries to Jokic/Gordon are concerns.
  • Spurs’ inexperience vs. Denver’s playoff composure is a central storyline.

    “My heart... is with the Spurs because I like Wemby... but my head tells me the smart choice is the Nuggets in that series.”
    – Jason McIntyre (07:56)

• New York Knicks’ Next Step:

  • Despite being seen as disappointing, Knicks’ stats improved; they could challenge Boston but might be outmatched by Detroit’s physicality.

    “Their record this year was better than last year under Thibodeau... I give the Knicks a solid chance of upsetting the Celtics again. I don’t think they can beat Detroit.”
    – Jason McIntyre (10:10)

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2. NFL News & Reactions

(17:09–23:23)

• Drake Maye & Patriots:

  • QB’s Super Bowl rookie season was remarkable, but previous post-SB QBs struggled the next year.

    “Patriots’ schedule is much tougher next year… last year felt like the football gods kind of nudged them along the way.”
    – Colin Cowherd (17:43, 18:50)

• NFL Draft & Miami Dolphins:

  • Miami in full rebuild under coach Jeff Hafley, targeting tackle Spencer Fano at pick 11.
  • Colin defends drafting offensive tackles high, citing history of elite tackles as first-rounders.

    “Unless you’re getting a quarterback, trade down and take an offensive tackle.”
    – Colin Cowherd (19:38)

• Baker Mayfield’s Value:

  • Mayfield’s next contract should remain in mid-high $30M, not $50M+, to avoid hamstringing the roster.
  • Tampa still competitive, but division is wide open.

    “Baker in the high 30s doesn’t bother me. Mid 40s… that’s one or two starters you can’t keep.”
    – Colin Cowherd (21:31)

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3. Rory McIlroy’s Masters Victory & Golf Legacy

(27:18–39:00)
Guest: Alan Shipnuk (Golf author and journalist)

• Rory’s Emotional Core:

  • Unlike stoic stars, Rory wears emotion openly—his quest for greatness is deeply felt.

    “The burden of genius is a real thing... For Rory, there’s so much emotion built into it.”
    – Alan Shipnuk (28:20)

• 2026 Masters as “Recovery Championship”:

  • McIlroy didn’t have his “A game”—struggled with driving and putting—yet managed the victory via resilience and recovery.

    “He never had his best stuff. And for Rory to conquer Augusta, to dust Scotty Scheffler when he’s not driving it well, it really is a delicious turn of events.”
    – Alan Shipnuk (29:43)

• Rory's Resilience:

  • His tenacity and ability to rebound from adversity, not just ball-striking, is his greatest trait.

    “There is a fragility there, a vulnerability. He’s not a machine like Tiger... That tenacity and that resilience is probably his most incredible trait as an athlete.”
    – Alan Shipnuk (31:39)

• Rory’s Place in Golf History:

  • Rory has now clearly surpassed Mickelson; another Masters would push him toward the top-5 all-time.

    “He’s the greatest global golfer, you know, since Gary Player.... The weight of the career Grand Slam, it moves him past Mickelson, past Faldo, past Trevino.”
    – Alan Shipnuk (33:53)

• Aggressive Play—Strength or Flaw?

  • Rory’s risk-taking stems from confidence in his driving, shaped by how Augusta sets up for recovery shots; caddies rarely argue.

    “If you’re the caddy and you say ‘I don’t like driver here,’ what you’re saying to Rory is, ‘I don’t think you’re good enough.’”
    – Alan Shipnuk (35:56)

• Memorable Final Image:

  • The emotional embrace with his parents—“the ultimate sort of rags to riches story... a champion we can celebrate.”
    – Alan Shipnuk (37:28)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

NBA/Playoffs:

• “This has been horrific... If they win this first round and then get beat by OKC in the second round, everybody would kind of be like, ‘Hey, at least they won a round.’ That’s how low expectations have fallen.”
  – Jason McIntyre on Houston, Kevin Durant (05:38)

NFL:

• “Six of the top seven quarterback contracts last year missed the playoffs. It was something there. So Baker in the high 30s doesn’t bother me.”
  – Colin Cowherd (21:31)

Golf:

• “When he needed it most, he accessed his genius.”
  – Alan Shipnuk on Rory’s Masters, (29:43)
• “Tiger would shut the door on Sunday with a lead. Rory opens it. Take a seat. Let’s go for a fun ride.”
  – Colin Cowherd (39:10)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• NBA Playoffs / Durant & Houston / Lakers: 02:29–11:55
• NFL Headlines & Draft Analysis: 17:09–23:23
• Rory McIlroy / Alan Shipnuk Interview: 27:18–39:00

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Tone & Style

Colin’s signature mix of candid analysis, historical perspective, and witty asides is balanced with expert insight from guests. The discussion is lively but thoughtful, especially in comparing athletic greatness and team-building philosophy.

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Conclusion

Hour 3 of this episode delivers rich, multi-layered sports analysis—from the emotional heights of Rory McIlroy’s Masters win and its historical significance, to NBA playoff intrigue, to the calculated business of NFL roster-building. Standout segments include Alan Shipnuk’s nuanced portrait of Rory, sharp playoff breakdowns, and a look under the hood of what makes teams and superstars truly great.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Now, let's get this party started.

[Colin Cowherd]

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.

The most interesting team to me in the playoffs is Denver because I think they're the one team and they have the one player, Jokic, that goes right at Wemby. Lakers. Houston was much more captivating if Luca and Austin Reeves were around. There's a story Luca is going to arrive back in the States. He's had some stem cell and plasma injections legal in Europe, not here. But the NBA is okay with it. You know, my take is, let's say the Lakers can steal one of the first four games we go into Game five, Rockets lead three one and Luka's back. Chris Broussard is now joining us live. I mean, because Houston's such a vulnerable team, it is interesting. I said to you before we went on, I said, Kevin Durant's a bit of an enigma. He's an all time catch and shoot guy. He's a baller. He said before, I'm not your leader. I just love basketball. I totally appreciate his authenticity on that. But if do you, first of all, do you think there's a chance that Luka could come back in the series?

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean, it would have to be late. Like you said. I would be very surprised if he's back in this series. But they, you know, a lot of people are saying, man, just give this season, it's a wrap. Let Luka have the entire off season, bring it back healthier than he was this year and get ready for the future. But the Lakers seem, and Luka seem all in on having him play, if possible in these playoffs. So I would think a game six or seven is possible if this stem cell, you know, issue and procedure in Europe really works. But I still, I would be surprised ultimately if we see him back. But to your point, if he, if they can extend it to a game six and then Luka is able to play, then I think the Lakers could pull it off. If Luka were healthy, let alone Luka and Austin Reaves, I think the Lakers will win this series easily. But without those two, Houston should take them out. And if I, if you're Kevin Durant and Alperin Shingoon and those are two stars for them, this should not go past five games.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right.

[Jason McIntyre]

You shouldn't even let it get to a point where Luka could come back.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, put him in. Thompson on LeBron, you've got your two score man. Don't worry about offense guard LeBron. He's just a tough, physical, long, young, hyper, athletic player. What are we going to, you know, the Durant thing is interesting. Last year the Rockets were second. They had Durant their fifth. Love him, but it does. You know, sometimes I think, we think all great players are leaders and they're not. Like some, some great players don't want to be leaders. A lot of them, they're not the quarterback you need to be. Where, where are you on the leg? Because let's just say they win the first round and they get extinguished, which I think they would against the Denver or San Antonio and Oklahoma City, I think they'd lose to Minnesota. What, what are we going to make of Kevin Durant in Houston?

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, this is, this is a mat. It's been a mess. And I know they, they've gotten up to the fifth seat. They've won, you know, 50 plus games, but it has been terrible. You said it. They were the second seed last year. They brought Kevin Durant in to be the missing piece, right? Like the final piece to the puzzle that can get us a championship. And now they're a worse team. So this has been horrific. And it's been so bad, Colin, that the expectations have been lowered to the point where if they win this first round and then get beat by OKC in the second round, which of course would happen, everybody would kind of be like, hey, you know, at least they won around. Like that's how low expectations have fallen. And as you said, Kevin Durant is an all time great scorer, an all time great shooter, but he's not a leader. And when you look at some of the top, you know, people want to push him into the top 10 all time, I say, no, he can be in the top 20. Yeah, and it's toward the 20, not 10. But he's not a top 10 player. Most of those top 10 guys had the intangibles, but whether it was leadership, a killer instinct, something that set them apart and got their team wins, and Durant, look, I'm glad he got those two championships in Golden State, but when he has had to be the leader, whether it was Oklahoma City early in his career, obviously Brooklyn, Phoenix, now Houston, it's been horrific. And remember the burner accounts here in Houston. Those young, those young players who probably grew up looking up to Kevin Durant had to read that he really didn't think they were that good. So I'm sure that didn't help the locker room either.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, and I said this the last 30, 40 years, generally there's about three teams that can win the championship. I think Boston and Oklahoma City are obvious. I think I like San Antonio over Denver. Jokic has missed a lot of time. Gordon's missed half the season. Murray's been healthy. If I said, you know, I mean, where are you on Denver? A red hot team. If they, if they face like a San Antonio, where are you on Denver right now? Let's just stay there.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, well, my heart, Colin, is with the spurs because I like Wimby. I like seeing, you know, anomalies and something we've never seen before. So I love him to win a championship this year and start some type of dominant run. So I would like to see them beat Denver, but my head tells me the smart choice is the Nuggets in that series. Now, it could go either way. That game a couple weeks ago, which was an epic game, maybe the best game of the regular season, remember, the spurs were leading most of the way and then they, you know, lost it in the end. Jokic was great in overtime and outplayed Wimby. So I, I feel good about Denver. I would add. You said Boston, okc, San Antonio. I would add Denver as a team that could win the championship. I think they're, they're obviously healthier than they've ever been this season and they still don't have Peyton Watson back. I think they need him back for his defense to have a good chance of getting to the finals. But they look Aaron Gordon, when he plays, they are a pretty good defensive team. Without him. They're horrible defensively. They. That's their question. We know they can score. Jokic is great offensively with Murray having his best regular season of his career. Murray, we know, is clutch. We've seen him in the playoffs, in the finals before. So Denver. I think the question with spurs is obviously their inexperience. And Denver has plenty of experience. So in that series in the second round, it'll be interesting to see the inexperienced versus the experience. I think the experience is what got Denver that win a couple weeks ago. Yeah, we'll see if it would continue over seven games.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay. Finally, no bench can't defend the three, two best players offensively or defensive liabilities. But they play in the East. They bring in Mike Brown. Mikhail Bridges has not played as well. Oh, geez. Probably been a better player. Do you look at the Knicks like you did last year? Whereas they're, they're capable of winning the east, but not probable due to some inefficiencies of roster construction, which are, you know, Lakers have them defensively so do the Knicks.

[Jason McIntyre]

It's very interesting because most of us, including myself, in some of my commentary throughout the season, we've looked at this as a disappointing season for the Knicks because I guess with the injuries, you know, Detroit kind of came out of nowhere. Boston, we knew Tatum was out. We expected the Knicks to kind of run away and lead the east, which they haven't done. But, Colin, their record this year was better than last year under Thibodeau. Their offensive and defensive ratings are better than last year. They're in the top 10 in both. And I have to say this, I have them as the third team in the east behind Boston and Detroit, but I. I think they match up very well with the Celtics. We know they beat them last year in six games. And with Tatum or without him, they were about to go up 3:1 when he got hurt late in Game 4. So they were going to win that series even with Tatum. And the reason is they have the defenders on the outside and Og Anunoby, Mikhail Bridges and Josh Hart, who can make life tough for Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum in that series Last year, they held each of those guys for Boston to 40% shooting. So they make it tough on them, and then can the other Celtics role players step up in the playoff moments? Remember these Celtics, a lot of them are young, I mean, Shireman and guys that really haven't been there before. Vucevich and so I think I give the Knicks a decent chance. I would favor Boston, but I do give the Knicks a solid chance of upsetting the Celtics again. I don't think they can beat Detroit, though. I think Detroit is too physical for the Knicks, so it's good that they don't have to face them in the second round.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, we've seen that when they've met this year. Brew, great seeing you. First things first, after us. Thanks, bud.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, Colin, thanks.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right. I know, J. Mac, you don't want to hear that, but Detroit's been a bad matchup. At least in the regular season. They get. Listen, Detroit makes it ugly. So, I mean, I think it's fair to say that the Knicks can be a little pretty. Yeah, with zero bench scoring. We'll see.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Jay, I may have to text Brew about this. And we do a side wager. There's no way the Pistons are going to the NBA Finals.

[Colin Cowherd]

Sorry.

Be sure to catch live editions of

[Matt Hasselbeck]

the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am

[Colin Cowherd]

Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Hey, it's Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington

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[Jason McIntyre]

And in addition to hearing us live weeknights from 7 to 10pm Eastern on Fox Sports Radio, we are excited to announce brand new YouTube channel for the show.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right, you can now watch the

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[Jason McIntyre]

All you gotta do search Odd Couple FSR on YouTube again YouTube. Just search Odd Couple FSR. Check us out on YouTube and subscribe.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

I don't want to miss the lineup. I'm going to ask that man for directions. Hi there. We're trying to get to the stadium.

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Well, you're going to take a left at the old oak tree at this here road N. I'm just kidding.

[Julian Edelman]

Let me get my phone out.

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[Colin Cowherd]

Actually, can you pull up the way to a T mobile store?

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[Jason McIntyre]

heard on the news.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is the Herdline news.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

All right, let's get started with Drake May, Colin and the New England Patriots. How about that season? He had pretty darn good, ended up in the super bowl before he got kind of humbled by the Seahawks. We got an interesting chart here of quarterbacks after losing the super bowl in the last seven years.

[Julian Edelman]

Colin.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

This one is a bit surprising. May called it kind of a humbling experience. There's been a lot of failures the year after losing the Super Bowl. Four of the last seven have missed the playoffs entirely. All right, one lost in the wild card round. That was Jalen Hurts two in the AFC championship.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, the Patriots schedule is much tougher next year and last year it was historically easy. Also, it was a weird year where, you know, like Joe Burrows, Bengals and Lamar missed time. Yeah, I, I, I do not think the Patriots are going to reach the Super Bowl. I don't. I think they're going to be good. I don't think they're going to reach the Super Bowl.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I, I am curious though. Do you think that, you know, this was kind of one of these like sophomore fortune good fortunes for May or is there legitimacy? Hey, he's a top six, seven quarterback in the league.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, I think May's really good. I think he's really exceptional. I think he's the east coast version of like Justin Herbert. I think he's really, really, really good. But I, but I do think things worked in their favor. I think Bo Nicks getting hurt worked in their favor. I think a couple of powerhouse teams, I mean the division now you got. The Dolphins basically are hamstrung with Tua's contract and the jets have staffing issues. So I mean it's a two team race there. So. But a lot of, a lot of Brady success. I mean, the jets were dysfunctional and when the jets weren't dysfunctional, Rex Ryan beat Belichick and Brady a couple times.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Oh, yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

So, you know, I don't think New England's going anywhere, but last year felt like the football gods kind of nudged him along the way.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Totally agree. All right, let's move on, Colin, to the NFL draft in the Miami Dolphins, a team you mentioned you didn't want to use the word tanking, but I will. They're tanking next year. Word on the street is Miami is looking to rebuild under Jeff Halfley. And reports indicate the Dolphins are big fans of Spencer Fano, the Utah tackle. They're looking at him possibly at 11 now. They're rebuilt. This is a full tear down to the studs. You're a real estate guy. You know about rebuilds. They don't have a lot of talent there. I, I like the idea of, hey, let's get the foundational pieces on the offensive line. By the way, the jets have done this in the last two drafts. They've got their bookends on the offensive line. They just don't have a quarterback.

[T-Mobile/US Cellular Advertiser]

Right.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, I think he's great. I mean, Utah has two tackles that are first round guys. I think Kansas City would sweep him up if they could get him. I'm never going to have a problem with a team drafting an offensive tackle in the first round. I mean, I like some more than others, but, but I mean, that's when Harbaugh could have taken a neighbors the wide receiver and took Joe Alt. And when Slater got hurt at left tackle, they moved Alt over to left tackle. I will never, I mean, I just I'm not a big fan of taking wide receivers now. I think Cleveland doesn't have any and Carnell Tate is their best receiver significantly first day on the field. But by and large I have always believed unless you're getting a quarterback trade down and take. If you look at the history of great offensive tackles, the 25 best ever, 22 or 23 were first rounders. There's just not that many people that are six, seven with good feet. They're just not so fine. Doesn't he's not like Jonathan Ogden good. No, but you know he's. He could be a dominant right tackle. That good, good spot to start for Kansas City or Miami.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Offensive line depth is massive to protect Malik Willis. Clearly. All right, final story Colin is Baker Mayfield and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. They missed the playoffs for the first time since the pre Brady era and Baker is in a final year of his contract right now. Co owner Joel Glazer says Baker has gone above and beyond anything they could have asked for and it sounds like they're going to give him what he wants in his new deal. Now you and I have talked about this a lot. So Baker, these quarterbacks. Baker making 30, 40 million is palatable.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Baker in the 50 mil that does just doesn't work. And I know Baker's not going to want to hear that he's had a good run in Tampa. But you, you start to pull pieces off the board if you've got to pay him 50 mil.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right? Yeah. I think Baker is perfectly, perfectly suited to be a mid 30 high 30. He was banged out last year. You know, I mean I think he's proven himself as a starting franchise quarterback somewhere around 15th best in the. So mid. You know I. And as much as I like Sam Darnold, I think a lot of his success is his general manager and the fact that he had the kind of contract Seattle could go out and navigate and grab some guys off the street. So I. Two things can be true. I can like Darnold and Baker, but I don't. I mean I don't like the best quarterback in the league making 50 or 60. I think you just limit yourself. I mean, what was it last year we talked about this the other day that you know, six of the top seven quarterback contracts last year missed the playoffs. It was something there. So Baker in the high 30s doesn't bother me. Mid 40s. That's one or two starters you can't keep.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Now they lose Mike Evans to free agency, but they still have Godwin and a Buka was awesome for half the season last year before kind of fading. So I think the Bucks are a contention. Weirdly, Colin, that division is now kind of sort of like above mediocre. I mean, New Orleans showed some things. Yeah, I am going to be picking Atlanta again. And then Carolina, of course made the playoffs. So, you know, I think they kind of have, I don't know who's a favorite in that division. Kyle, who you got?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, you got. I think I'd probably go Carolina probably. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what they're going to do with Bryce Young. I don't know what they're going to do. I mean, made the playoffs, almost beat the Rams twice and interesting. You know, clearly Canales made them better. You know, he kind of, he kind of did a Liam Cohen with the Jags. Are they super bowl teams? No, but I think, I think Canales squeezes all the juice out of Raleigh. Shovel.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

J. Mac with the news.

Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the herd lie news.

Well, Rory McIlroy is the most fascinating golfer in the world and right now he's probably the best golfer in the world. The man that wrote the book on him has covered him for years. Sometimes Rory doesn't like this. Writer Alan Shipnock's around the corner and he will be joining us next. Be sure to catch live editions of

[Matt Hasselbeck]

the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Julian Edelman]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Well, timing's important in life. And Alan Shipnuk, 30 plus years as a golf rider. New York Times bestselling author just came out with a roll Rory McElroy book, which I finished last week. It's really fascinating and, you know, and let's bring Alan, he's finally back home. And I undisclosed location. But I'm jealous beyond words and I'll just leave it at that. You know, the Rory book is many things, but golf. Allen has had a reputation for years. I didn't golf as a kid. We didn't have the money. I didn't buy golf courses. It's kind of elitist. But then there's Arnold Palmer, who was an everyman. And then I think Rory has that in that he's a very vulnerable guy. You know, Scotty Scheffler a couple years ago said after a big win, he's like, it's not the most important thing to me. And it's like, well, Rory, I know it's the most important thing to him. And has that always been the case? I would argue the drought has made him more emotional. Or has this always been who he is?

Yeah, I mean, even when he was a kid who took on the golf world as this incredible prodigy, he was still crying after the victories. It's always meant so much to him. He was a can't miss kid from the time he was five or six years old in Northern Ireland. And the burden of genius is a real thing. And he's always felt that weight of expectation. And so, yeah, last year the Masters was catharsis, this year it was joy. And but as you say, he just burns to fulfill this destiny of his. And that's why we're so invested in it. You know, Scheffler, it's like he's checking off a to do list. Okay, let me win the Masters. Let me win the PGA Championship. For Rory, there's so much emotion built into it. That incredible hug with his parents, and that was only the second time his mom, Rosie, had been at one of his major championship victories. And you could just see this lifelong quest fulfilled by this whole family. It really is a special part of his story.

You know, he was, I think, 10 over on par fives. He hit 31 fairways, which is like bizarrely low. I think it's the lowest ever for a champion. I mean, did he. I mean, for. There were portions of it. I mean, if somebody said, how would you describe this Masters for Rory? I would say it was the Recovery Championship. It was recover. I mean, how would you describe it?

In some ways, it's his most impressive victory on the big stage because he never really had his A game. And we know that Rory's driver is his superpower. It's the differentiator. And he did not overwhelm this golf course with his driver. It was chipping, putting, it was managing himself. It was squeezing the most out of his rounds on. On Thursday and Friday, and. And then when the jacket was there for the taking on Sunday, when everything was going sideways, he made that double bogey. He bogeys six, but the whole tournament's been thrown into chaos. Then he found it, and he started flushing the ball. And he had great shots, obviously, on seven. That six iron into number eight was world class. The shot he hit in the 12 was kind of going to be the defining birdie. That's the scariest shot in championship golf. He went right at that flag. So when he needed it most, he kind of accessed his genius. But then he was still holding on coming in. We saw it on 17 and 18. Those were great escapes. It was just. He never had his best stuff. And for Rory to conquer Augusta national, to dust Scotty Scheffler, when he's not driving it well, it really is a delicious turn of events. And it's tantalizing to look forward because he's become such a complete golfer. He knows how to win on these stages, and we know he's going to start driving well soon enough. And. And then it's really fun to think about how far, how deep can Rory take this?

Yeah, 10 under on the par fives. My bad. But he struggled putting early. Recovery shots only hit 31 fairways, 10 under on the par fives. If, you know, I talked about, like, John Elway, MJ Ohtani, there are these audacious talents in the immense pressure, and then they win and everything gets a little easier. You know, when you were around Rory over the course of the last four to five days, did it to you when you were in his space? Did he just feel different than the Rory you'd known previously or a year ago?

I think we talked about this the last time you and I had a conversation early in Masters week, that Rory had a jauntiness early in the week. And no one's ever enjoyed being defending champ as much as Rory did. He was just swanning around in the green jacket. He was at the drive, trip and putt. He was at the Women's Amateur, of course, the Tuesday night dinner. Like, he was having so much fun. He was so relaxed. That's when I knew he was going to contend. And then he came out and he squeezed a lot out of his rounds. On Thursday and Friday. But I think all that disappeared on Master Saturday when it was like, okay, this has really happened. I can win this thing. And then the clench factor. And part of what makes Rory so compelling is there is a fragility there. There is a vulnerability. He is not a machine like Tiger. And it's always going to be a high wire act with Rory. And of course, we saw that again and again. Apparently he's always going to make a double bogey on Sunday when he wins the Masters, like most people cannot survive that. But Rory has died a thousand deaths on the golf course at this point in his life, and he's unfazed. He just keeps marching forward. And that tenacity and that resilience is probably his most incredible trait as an athlete, more than any. Anything to do with his ball striking. And so he was three down through six holes on the final round, but he just kept coming. And as he's making birdies, everyone else started to retreat, and he just grabbed the tournament by the throat. And it was tremendous performance under pressure, and it. It just shows how much he's matured as a player and as a competitor.

Mickelson never won the US Open, finished second six times. As you noted, Mickelson was never number one. That's mostly because of Tiger, but I would say the depth and quality of golfers that Rory faces is. Feels like as good and as deep as it's ever been. I kind of feel Rory Mickelson could be a coin flip. I kind of think another Masters win puts Rory ahead of Mickelson. I mean, not that this is the be all, end all argument, but it is fascinating because I think he's in that rarefied air now. Maybe not Jack Tiger, but then there's the Faldos and the Mickelsons and the Palmers. Where are we on Rory's legacy?

Well, respectfully, I would say he's already surpassed Phil because of, you know, Phil never got to number one. He never won a money title. Rory's won three money titles in the U.S. he's won seven in Europe. He's the greatest global golfer, you know, since Gary Player. He's done all these things that Phil couldn't do, including Win the U.S. open. And the only. The only thing that Phil has on his resume is more PGA Tour victories. But when you factor in what Rory's done in Europe, that. That's a wash anyway. The weight of the career Grand Slam, it moves him past Mickelson, past Faldo, past Trevino. These are all guys who have six major championships. I mean, Rory is in very rarefied air. The guys who have won seven, you know, that's a Mount Rushmore, it's Palmer, it's Sneed, it's Sarazin, Bobby Jones, if you don't count the amateur victories. So there's. Rory has a chance to be one of the top five golfers of all time. He needs probably two more majors, and he's there. So he. What he's doing is, you know, 13 months ago, you'd say Rory might have underachieved a little bit in his career. And now with the Grand Slam going back to back at Augusta, which only three other players have ever done, like, he is marching up the ladder of the all time greats. And it's awesome that we get to watch it in real time.

You know, it's crazy. So I had said earlier, there was the prodigy stage, the rock star stage, the drought stage. This is the legendary stage. But if you look at his physical, his body, he's obviously disciplined, whereas with Phil Mickelson, his lifestyle choices and his golf could be undisciplined, right? With Rory, sometimes, like, like on the 18, I'm like, dude, grab a five wood. Just get it down the middle. Don't give us all a heart attack. Just get it and just hit it. 208, just. And yet he goes and is like, super aggressive. I guess my take is, with Mickelson, I understood the lack of discipline. I saw it all the time reading your book, Phil. I read it sometimes with Rory. I'm like, where does this wild side come from?

It's just the way he plays the game.

He.

The driver is his favorite club. And so if you're the caddy and you say, I don't like driver here, what you're saying to Rory is, I don't think you're good enough in this moment. You don't want to. You don't want to put that thought into his head. It's like, yes, you're a generational driver of the golf ball. Just do what you do. Now, obviously he didn't, but he had it because he had, you know, a stroke to play with. He could make Bogan still win the green jacket. The thing about Augusta, they actually trim the trees. These guys always have a shot because they clip the branches. They want you to go for it. They want the hero recovery shots. Like, if you go, I was just down at the Players Championship, those trees are so thick, you can't hit those shots. Augusta literally thins out the branches because they Want you to have a window now. You might set yourself on fire, but it's exciting to watch. And so I think Rory kind of knew, no matter where he drove it, he's going to be able to make five. And it turns out he was right.

Yeah. Okay. Your new book, the Heartache and Triumph of Golf's Most Human Superstar, just came out, and it's a great read. There's a moment where Rory is very unhappy with Alan. There is a depth to him, a humanity to him, and my staff just reminded me of this. I don't know how much you follow the New York jets, but Rory McIlroy has won the Masters twice since the jets had an interception, so he. Sorry, Jason. I apologize for that. I hope the book's going well. And when's the last time you saw Rory? Did you have any interaction the last time you saw him? Yeah.

So that was the last time he really had a chance to talk as humans was at pebble beach earlier this year. And I had given him a copy of the book early that week, and I said, I wouldn't give it to you so far ahead of publication that I thought you were going to hate it. And he was appreciative. But I bumped into him Sunday night. We ran into each other and he told me he started reading it and he liked it. It made him laugh. And that kind of speaks to Rory. Even though he had been spiky throughout the reporting of it, in the end, he always carries himself with a certain amount of grace and humanity. And so I think that was his way of burying the hatchet. So I'm in a good place with Rory. But, yeah, it's kind of fun that he won this week when it comes to the book. But it's not about me, Colin. I'm just a servant of the golf fans out there. So I'm happy that it's gonna give this book a little more life, because I think it's a feel good story. I mean, those images of Rory and his parents, if you don't get misty eyed at that, you're probably dead on the inside, because it's just the ultimate sort of rags to riches story. And he's a champion that we can celebrate. I mean, you look at the last 30 years in golf, it's Tiger, it's Phil, it's Rory, and two of them have been so diminished by scandal and addiction and greed. And Rory just. He's a great champion. And I actually think he'll become a member of Augusta National. I think I'm going to tap on the shoulder. And it's only been Arnie, Jack and Ben Crenshaw. I've been given that honor. But he's such a great ambassador. He looks good in green. Like, it's just the way that Rory moves through the world is so impressive.

Alan, you're great. New York Times bestselling author of the book is Rory. Highly recommend it. Always a pleasure to see you. Thank you.

Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

You bet. Yeah, it's just he's, you know, it's. I've spent a lot of time on golf today, but I think Rory's really unique. He was. I mean, he struggled getting the ball in the fairway. It's wild. I like what Alan said about they want you to be more aggressive. They're, they're, they're trimming the branches. They want you to be aggressive. Struggled putting yesterday, but went after right after 12 par fives. Had success, but fairways didn't. A lot of recovery shots and yeah, it's, it's the one event. I think I speak for a lot of people. It's the one event where the course carries a lot of weight. I mean, I love watching, you know, a Pinehurst or U.S. open St. Andrews, but it's just fun. It's fun TV. And Rory just, you know, like we said about certain actors, just pop on screen and pop through the screen. He does the exact same. And again, Tiger would shut the door on Sunday with a lead. Rory opens it. Take a seat. Let's go for a fun ride. And that's what it was. All right, we'll see you tomorrow. Good stuff. First things first, around the corner, Matt Hasselbeck, Alan Shipnuk. Hi, it's Colin Coward. If you're looking for the best blend of durability and affordability in decking, trust Summit Decking from Deckorators. Summit features deckorators patented Surestone technology so the boards won't splinter, sag, chalk or crack over time. And the colors, three great options that really capture the rich textures of natural wood. Honestly, it's the best decking you didn't know you could afford. Order a sample before peak build season. Order a sample today. Visit decorators.com herd to get your free sample. That's decorators with A K again. Decorators.com herd everybody hits that mid morning moment where a little boost would really help. That's where the new Starbucks energy refreshers come in. They're great. If you already love Starbucks refreshers, these have the same taste now with an added boost of caffeine. Your favorite flavors like strawberry, acai or pink. Drink now of an extra kick for the perfect midday reset. So when a little lift sounds good today, try the new Energy Refreshers at Starbucks or order one right now on the Starbucks app.

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