THE HERD - Hour 3 - More on the NBA Finals, Chris Broussard

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Episode: Hour 3 - More on the NBA Finals, Chris Broussard
Date: June 4, 2026
Host: Colin Cowherd
Guest/Contributors: Chris Broussard, J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)

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Overview

The third hour of "The Herd" with Colin Cowherd dives into pressing topics across the NBA and NFL, with primary focus on the NBA Finals matchup, the evolution of Victor Wembanyama, the Cleveland Browns’ quarterback quandaries, New York Giants’ offensive identity, and broader NFL management trends. Chris Broussard joins to break down the NBA Finals, particularly the Spurs vs. Knicks matchup, offering keen analysis on Wembanyama’s development. J. Mac provides NFL headlines, sparking discussion about quarterbacks, roster building, and the importance of coaching. Throughout, Colin blends sharp analysis with characteristic candor, balancing big-picture trends with granular insight.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. NFL Headlines & Hot Takes

(03:34–12:13)

Cleveland Browns & Shador Sanders Hype

• Discussion on public comments from Deion Sanders (about son Shador) and Browns HC Todd Monken.
• Colin and J. Mac debate the Browns’ QB room, Shador’s starting potential, and Deshaun Watson’s tenuous grip on the starting job.
• Colin:
  • “The minute DeShaun Watson throws a pick, people are going to watch Shador Sanders. …This has a very Tim Tebow feel to it.” (05:13)
  • Thinks Shador has franchise QB traits but stops short of calling him great:

    “I think he’s a starting franchise quarterback. … I don’t think I’d want him as my primary guy. But…he’s going to be productive.” (05:44)

  • Predicts Browns win six games despite speculation about tanking.
• J. Mac questions the ceiling, confesses skepticism about optimism for Browns' win total.

New York Giants Receiving Corps & Scheme

• J. Mac spotlights the Giants’ addition of multiple receivers, hints at concern about rookie Malik Nabers’ role.
• Colin downplays receiver drama, sees the team’s identity anchored in physicality and a run-first approach:

  “They’re not going to be built around wide receiver. …They’re going to run the football with Scatterboo. They’re going to be a run-first, physical team.” (08:44)

• Predicts volume goes to “Fields out of Notre Dame” with Nabers possibly unhappy as a non-featured option.

Philadelphia Eagles Wide Receiver Situation

• Discussion of A.J. Brown trade, Devonta Smith assuming WR1 role.
• Colin:

  “It’s an overstated…if you have Makai Lemon who will be a great two and Devonte Smith who's probably a really high two, you’re fine. …I don’t think you need a dominant number one.” (10:12) “I do think you need a number one quarterback, left tackle, edge rusher…But not always a receiver.” (11:01)

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2. NBA Finals Analysis: Knicks-Spurs, Wembanyama’s Evolution

Chris Broussard Joins (16:15–28:23)

Knicks’ Emergence & Mike Brown’s Impact

• Colin: Traces Knicks’ journey to Finals—highlights doubts midseason, Mike Brown’s system shift from Brunson-centric to Warriors-like in playoffs.
• Broussard:

  “I doubt what I thought at any point did I think what I saw last night was possible or that this team would do what they’ve done over the last month.” (17:19)

  • Praises Mike Brown for balancing defense, offense, and managing personalities.

Physicality vs. Wembanyama

• Colin:

  “The one thing I saw last night…is they pushed Wemby around…OG, Hart, Mitchell Robinson, Cat—they are big. …That to me, that’s a huge concern in this series.” (18:31)

• Broussard:

  “Wemby is about 70% of the player he will be, and…the other 30%…is getting stronger so he can hold position in the post. …They're leaving points on the table.” (19:37)

  • Emphasizes he needs more post-game and to use his size inside.
  • Predicts eventual growth—cites Michael Jordan’s physical transformation as a parallel.

Jalen Brunson’s Usage Rate

• Colin raises questions for Knicks:

  “How many games can Jalen Brunson take 31 shots? …That’s clearly the game plan. Make Bridges beat us, you know, make OG beat us. Brunson’s beating everybody in the fourth.” (21:10)

• Broussard:

  “I don’t think so because…that’s not the plan for him to take that many shots. …One thing…that makes the Knicks so dangerous lately is that even when teams do kind of take Brunson away…others can make teams pay.” (22:03)

Wembanyama’s Offensive Limitations—and the Path Forward

• Colin posits:

  “Is it possible with Wemby—he’ll be the greatest defensive player ever…but…maybe he’ll never be offensively his size. …Kareem’s size…was unstoppable. …Wemby sometimes feels more comfortable outside than in…and maybe this is the downside to his size.” (24:03)

• Broussard:

  “He clearly thinks of himself as a guard or small forward…But there is no question he needs to be inside. …Nobody’s expecting you to be down there even 50% of the game necessarily, but you need to have it in your arsenal.” (25:18)

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3. Game 2 Projections & NBA Finals “Zigzag” Theory

(28:23–29:54)

• Both discuss whether Spurs bounce back—J. Mac favors Spurs “first quarter” again as a bet, noting recurring trends:

  “Spurs are going to come out fire breathing again…” (29:21)

• Colin expects improved shooting:

  “There’s one thing I know for sure—the Spurs will shoot better in game two.” (29:17)

• Both agree: Series not likely to be short, anticipate course corrections from San Antonio.

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4. Broader NBA/NFL Roster Moves & Coaching Philosophy

(30:16–37:02)

Why NBA Trades Are Harder & NFL’s Year-Round Hype

• Colin criticizes NBA’s “paralysis” in player movement:

  “The NFL makes it so easy to trade stars…sports is better when fans can follow things. …I just wish we had more of it in the NBA…Part of sports is off season. …The NFL is brilliant in its ability to keep people like me talking.” (31:04)

Head Coach Value and Staff Building

• Points out pitfalls of going “cheap” at head coach positions and the cascading benefits of hiring winners like Jim Harbaugh or Sean McVay.
• Warns of the dangers in NFL coach turnover:

  “The problem with firing a coach after one year is you get a reputation as a team. Yeah, it’s a turnstile.” (36:24)

• J. Mac and Colin revisit earlier points on Browns’ plan—suggesting a “one and done” coach to facilitate a future rebuild and draft pursuit.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Colin Cowherd on Wembanyama growth:

  “Is it possible with Wemby—he’ll be the greatest defensive player ever…he’ll win, but maybe he’ll never be offensively his size.” (24:03)

• Chris Broussard on Wembanyama’s offense:

  “He clearly thinks of himself as a guard…but no question he needs to be inside. …Nobody’s expecting you to be down there even 50% of the game necessarily, but you need to have it in your arsenal.” (25:18)

• Colin on NFL coaching hires:

  “So much of hiring the great coach is they generally bring a great staff with them…When you go cheap, you get a revolving door.” (36:08)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:34 | NFL Headlines: Deion Sanders, Shador Sanders, Browns QB battle | | 04:50 | Browns “tank” talk, Shador as franchise QB | | 07:58 | Giants’ wide receiver group & offensive philosophy | | 10:12 | Eagles’ WR shuffle, value of “number-one” wideouts | | 16:15 | Chris Broussard joins—NBA Finals breakdown, Knicks’ transformation | | 18:31 | Wembanyama’s physicality concern vs. Knicks’ frontcourt | | 21:10 | Can Jalen Brunson’s usage rate hold up over the series? | | 24:03 | Wembanyama’s offensive ceiling—guard skills vs. post game | | 27:25 | Big-picture view: Knicks’ energy, Spurs' fatigue | | 28:23 | Game 2 outlook & zigzag theory | | 30:16 | NBA trades vs. NFL moves, off-season excitement | | 33:02 | Why elite head coaches matter for attracting free agents, staff | | 37:02 | Final NFL thoughts, Browns’ strategic direction |

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Tone & Language

• Colin Cowherd: Thoughtful, dynamic, often provocative while blending humor and deep-dive analysis. Speaks candidly: “I don’t need Dad. I don’t care how good Dad was…” (04:20)
• J. Mac: Plays foil, introducing headlines and poking holes in Colin’s optimism (“I would bet against that…” 06:13)
• Chris Broussard: Analytical and even-handed, giving measured assessments and historical parallels.

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Final Thoughts

This episode delivers a compelling blend of topical NBA Finals dissection—highlighting the nuances of superstar development, fatigue, and tactical adjustments—with an equally shrewd take on NFL management trends and quarterback debates. The dynamic between Colin, J. Mac, and Chris Broussard keeps the show lively, while memorable quotes and data-laden takes ensure listeners are both informed and entertained, even if they didn’t catch the live broadcast.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio at noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Now, let's get this party started.

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.

[Colin Cowherd]

Taj Gibson, former Knick, stopped by. Today was great. Chris Broussard's around the corner. First J. Mac with the news.

[Chris Broussard]

No, no, no, no.

[AT&T Business Advertisement Voice]

Turn on the news.

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

This is the Herd line news, right?

[J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)]

Like maybe a month ago, I don't know if you remember this, Colin, but Deion Sanders went public and was like, yeah, I can't wait to talk to Todd Monkin about Shador. I don't know if you remember that new head coach. He should know about my son. We thought it was goofy at the time. Well, if you want even dumber. Todd Monken came out this week and was like, I can't wait to talk to Deion about Shedeur. I mean, Colin, I'm kind of blown away by this. We're talking about the dad of a quarterback wanting to talk to the coach, and the coach, like, embracing it. Now, Monkin, he's not looked particularly good here. I know it's the off season, but he's like, yeah, I don't know about Myles Garrett. Yeah, I wasn't giving any assurances. Every time he opens his mouth, it sounds like maybe he could be a one and done candidate. I don't know. Maybe I'm being too harsh.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, I don't think Dion. I don't know. I don't need Dad. I don't care how good dad was. Maybe dad, if he was Peyton Manning and I have Arch Manning, that'd be an interesting phone call. But I think most dads would, like, stay away, Right? Like, you think Nick Saban let dad control things. I just think that's. This is kind of the whole Dion thing.

[J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)]

I mean, Dion did coach him, I believe. High school, college. I remember the transfer. They go a lot of together a lot.

[Colin Cowherd]

A lot of dads coach their kids, especially quarterbacks. Those dads are everywhere.

[J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, to each their. Cleveland does things differently. So.

[J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)]

And interestingly, I'm sure you follow this very closely. Deshaun Watson, by all accounts, is the clubhouse leader. Now it is only June, but Watson is the clubhouse leader. I don't know if this is to show desean so they can trade him to a team that needs a quarterback.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen, the minute DeSean Watson throws a pick, people are going to watch Shadour Sanders. He made $18 million doubling the previous Tom Brady high end merchandise. This has a very Tim Tebow feel to it. So Deshaun Watson's not going to last three weeks. And the difference is Shador Sanders can start in the NFL. I don't know how great he is, but I do think he has the requisite arm strength, playmaking. He can move well enough. I think he's a starting franchise quarterback. I don't, I don't, I don't think I'd want him as my primary guy. But I do think Shedeur with the right elements around him and they've had back to back great drafts, I think he's going to be productive. I'll tell you when I hear about, you know, the, the Browns tanking. First of all, pro teams don't tank. The jets inadvertently tank because they're so poorly coached and poorly run. Cleveland's got way too many good players. Shador is going to be too productive. They're going to win six games. I'll tell you right now they're winning six games.

[J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)]

I would bet against that, but I don't know if you saw there's some steam on the jets over. People think the jets have too good of a roster and easy schedule. I just want to give you a chance to make sure I heard it right. Should do or you think has a chance to be a franchise quarterback?

[Colin Cowherd]

I don't. I'm not saying great. I'm saying do I think he could start for one of these 32 teams and win some games?

[J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)]

I again for, for one season or could he be like a five year starter for a team?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, let's let it play out. Let's give him a year of starting. If you let him start, let's say he starts week four, they start owing. What's the Brown schedule look like? I don't even know what. I don't have it in front of me. Okay, so they start at Jacksonville, loss at Tampa. Good luck Carolinas. Either way at home they could win that game. I mean, let's just say that. Let's say they start one and three. I could see the crowd, the fans, talk radio. Shador is going to end up being the starter. I don't know. I look at Shedeur in that schedule with Those players in Cleveland. You can't. I think he can win games.

[J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)]

Well, I hope he beats my Jets. We want the inside track on virtuous

[Colin Cowherd]

Jets, Titans, Saints, Raiders, Falcons, Giants.

[J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)]

So you're going with six wins for the Browns. Is that the prediction?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I think. What's the over under? I'd. I'd take six.

[J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)]

My guess is it's five and a half.

[Colin Cowherd]

I would take the over.

[J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)]

Jets are in that.

[Colin Cowherd]

I like their gm, I like their roster. I really do. I and I and I still contend despite bombing interviews and being too high in his own supply. I mean the legendary draft room was silly. And you know, Dion, you know, saying we don't want to play for certain teams. They butchered that. I still think he's a second or a third round talent. I do not think he's a fifth round quarterback. Okay. All right.

[J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)]

GM Cowherd, let's move to the New York Giants. The G men your team this year. Well, listen, me and many others have come out and say listen Malik Neighbors must be down bad because the Giants picked up three wide receivers this week. John Harbaugh has come out and is defending his team and Malik neighbor saying not so fast my friends. Here we go.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's separate from that. Nothing to do with that. There's room enough for Malik and whoever the next four or five receivers are. There'll be room enough for all those guys. Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, they're not.

[J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)]

We will. Jon, I, I feel like the good ship New York Giants that you were riding high earlier this offseason starting to maybe take on some water, Colin.

[Colin Cowherd]

Huh? No, I think they're not going to be built around wide receiver. That's not John Harbaugh. Jim Harbaugh's DNA. They're going to run the football with Scatterboo. They're going to be a run first physical team. Build up the offensive line. Jackson Dartle stay out of the tent. They've upgraded at crucial positions. I don't think Malik Neighbors changes outcomes. I think he's an injury prone occasional playmaking receiver. I think Fields out of Notre Dame is going to be a volume receiver and become Jackson Dart's favorite target. And. And Neighbors isn't going to love that. But Neighbors is not shown the ability to play a full season and stay healthy. It's very obj. So I, I don't think that. I don't think they're the Giants going forward. I think it's more of a scatter boo Dart team than a Neighbors team.

[J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)]

Okay.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right.

[J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)]

Final story, let's go to the Philadelphia Eagles big trade this week moving off of A.J. brown picking up future draft picks that slides Devonta Smith into the number one receiver role. Jordan Mylotta, the left tackle who is famously this week said thank God the AJ Brown saga is over, is now saying I've always believed Devonta Smith is a number one receiver. Now Smith is the guy who I think checked in at like £175 at the combine. A lot of questions about his frame. Can he handle being a number one? Can he handle 100 receptions over the middle? I don't know, Colin. Number one receiver is a little. Is a weird thing to say.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's an overstated. Yeah, it's. It's over. I mean if you have Makai Lemon who will be a great two and Devonte Smith who's probably a really high two, you're fine. This idea that you need a dominant number one, I don't buy it. I think Makai Lemon's going to be end up being an 80 catch guy in this league. Devonte Smith is good. If I can have two low high end twos, maybe I get a little less ego. I'm fine with it. I don't think you need a dominant number one. I really don't. I think it's one of those things people talk about. I do think you need a number one quarterback, a number one left tackle, a number one edge rusher or defensive lineman. And I do think I don't think you need a number one corner. If you told me I had two B plus corners, one A and one C. Coaching's too good. You'll pick on the seat. So again, I think there's very few positions where I need a dominant player. I think tight end has become increasingly important. I think safety now has gotten more important. But I need a quarterback left tackle, number ones.

[J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)]

So you're kind of a fan of the Eagles wide receiver by committee. You don't have one superstar. There's nobody. You have to double. You don't have to game plan. I don't think you game plan for Devonta Smith now.

[Colin Cowherd]

I do think when you have a team like, like I think A.J. brown really served. Drake May is one of the great deep ball throwers in the NFL already. I think AJ Brown fits that team because I think the rest of their skill players there are definitely twos and threes. So I'm not anti a number one receiver if he's the right guy. I mean if Pukinakua didn't have the off field nonsense. He's a great tough high volume number one. Omaron St. Brown's a number one. Love him. Jamar Chase is a one. Justin Jefferson I'm not anti one but I don't think there's a lot of things that I like but they're not a necessity. J Mac with the News well that's the news and thanks for stopping by

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

the Herd LIE news. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Fox Sports Radio is taking over YouTube and you can be a part of it. Just go to YouTube and search Fox Sports Radio. Hit that subscribe button and smash that notification bell and catch all the videos from your favorite shows. Two pros and a cup of Joe Dan Patrick, Colin Cowherd, Stu Gotz and company Live Cavino and Rich, the Odd Couple with Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington, the Jason Smith show with Mike Harmon and the Ben Maller Show Fox sports radio on YouTube.

[Colin Cowherd]

Subscribe hit that thumbs up icon and comment away.

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)]

Huge news.

[Colin Cowherd]

We created our own podcast called hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We. We just contributed to first people to do podcasts. Pretty. Yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts, but this one's extra special. So how do we. How do we actually come up with the name hey Jonas? Guys, I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it and well, we were thinking. I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers was. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes, I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing a bit for the podcast. People could call in and say, hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad hey Jonas. And offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that. Guys, listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

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[Colin Cowherd]

AT&T business wireless connecting changes everything. I'm trying to think the the Knicks because right now New York, the Yankees are good. Excellent starting pitching. Ben Rice is getting MVP talk. Metro mess, Brooklyn basketball, Jets, Giants rebuilds. I mean Knicks are always popular in New York, but it does feel like it's a. It's a sports starved city. And Chris Broussard joining us from New York. First things first. The Was there a point in the season before we get to game one? There was reports of chemistry rifts. You had the Cat Brunson defensive liabilities. Mikhail Bridges wasn't off to a great start. Was there a point in the season that you thought what you watched last night was possible? And if there was a point in the regular season, when was it?

[Chris Broussard]

Yeah, I doubt what I thought at any point did I think what I saw last night was possible or that this team would do what they've done over the last month. Now, I knew when Mike Brown took over, he wanted to institute an offense that was more similar to what Golden State did. More ball movement, player movement, less Jalen Brunson centric. Although at times, obviously including last night, they will put the ball in his hands and let him go to work down the stretch. But they weren't really doing that most of the season, you know, and so they obviously made that switch in the series with the Hawks in the first round. And that's really what's changed everything. But I thought Mike Brown had a chance to do something special with this team because I knew he was a great defensive coach from the get go, from his days in CLEVELAND and with LeBron James. And then when he went to Golden State, he did get better offensively and he's been around enough teams. He's been around Kobe, LeBron, you know, several superstars he's coached. So he knows how to handle personalities. So I thought it could come together. It really wasn't coming together in the regular season the way people wanted it to, but obviously it's gotten to that point now.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, I said there are certain things that I know will be different in game two. For instance, the Spurs, I thought they looked really tired late in the game off a grueling seven game series. They'll shoot the ball better in game two. I'm. I'm sure of that. I also think we'll see more of Dylan Harper late and less of Dear and Fox. I'm pretty sure of that. But the one thing I saw last night, that I don't know what San Antonio can do between OG Hart, Mitchell Robinson, Cat, they are big. They've been in NBA weight rooms for years. They're thick. And they pushed Wemby around on both ends of the floor. And I said this, I don't know if this Wemby at 22, does he need another off season to gain 15 pounds like Giannis, who kept coming back bigger shoulders like I.

[Chris Broussard]

Right.

[Colin Cowherd]

I mean, my takeaway on last night is they pushed Wemby around. Well, Mitchell Robinson and OG and Cat aren't getting smaller. That to me, that's a huge concern in this series. Your thoughts?

[Chris Broussard]

Yeah, look, I've been saying that Wemby is about 70% of the player he will be and the 30, most of the other 30%. Colin is getting stronger so he can hold position on the post. Now we're always going to want him to shoot threes, shoot mid range, take people off the dribble because he's great at those things. But you saw last night that when your jump shot is off or you can't beat your defender off the dribble consistently, it's nice to have that post game to go to. And that's what he really doesn't have. I still think they got to get him closer to the basket like they on the pick and roll him rolling to the cup. That should be something they do more of. I think there are ways to get him the ball down low without him planting himself down there. You could flash him across the lane and things like that, maybe get a screen for him. But they have to do more of that because you can't just sit there and hope he's hot tonight from three point range. When you're seven five you've got this advantage. They're leaving points on the table. Collin every time he is outside they are leaving potential points and advantages on the table. Even last night there were a few times he did have good post position on a smaller guy like shorter, like Anobi I think it might have been or Hart maybe as well. And he kind of kicked it out. He's not that com. He's not comfortable yet with his back to the basket and that's something he definitely has to work on.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I said Brunson got banged up twice, kind of random 31 shots. I've seen bigger players like Luka that are ball centric and take 30 shots, wear down over a series. And I said game one is different. If we get to a game six or a game seven. How many games can Jalen Brunson take 31 shots? Because to me, if I'm San Antonio and I watch the film, my take is guys, we gotta throw bodies at Brunson. They're trying to wear out Wemby, we gotta wear out Brunson, we gotta send Stefan Castle doubles. Be physical, hard fouls. That's clearly the game plan. Make Bridges beat us, you know, make OG beat us. Brunson's beating everybody in the fourth. So my question, should the Knicks be concerned that Brunson took 31 shots and really was the fourth quarter offense?

[Chris Broussard]

Yeah, look, I don't think so because obviously that's not the plan for him to take that many shots. His shots should be more around 20, low 20, something like that. Even the less if they have it going. One thing though that that makes has made the Knicks so dangerous lately is that Even when teams do kind of take Brunson away double team and get the ball out of his hands. Anunoby and Bridges and all Hart, even Hart. Hart didn't hit shoot well against Cleveland. But Shamet, you know, guys that have hit the three and made teams pay now they didn't do that last night. Neither team really shot well from three. And so Brunson had to take more offense onto himself. But I do think that's one of the adjustments that the spurs will make. I think there are a lot of adjustments they can make. We talked about the offensive things they can do with Wimby. Will they put Wimby on Josh Hart or someone else tomorrow rather than have him guarding Karl Anthony Towns? I think that's another adjustment they could make. They could have him play deeper off of Towns and make Towns prove he's going to be hot from three. Towns was over two from three last night and he was able to drive by Wimby. So they may do that. There are a lot of things they can do. You mentioned Dylan Harper. Being out the last four minutes was really odd. You know, they put him, Devin Vassell in for him. Yeah, Harper was playing well most of it he did in the first half, granted. But still he's a strong defender. He obviously can score outside and at the rim. So I think he'll play more. So there's a lot they can do. When we said last night they're not the least bit concerned and I understand because they have a lot of things to go to. So maybe that was more of a feel out game last night.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, well, they look tired. I mean they were 2 for 19 second half. I think in threes they had no legs. At one point, Harper air balled an open three. I mean they, they look, they look gassed. I will ask you, you know, with Wemby's offense, Brew, you always say your game is your game. The downside is 7 4. The upside is you are so defensively capable. He literally changes the math defensively like you just can't. You know, I think Mike Breen said it. They're doing U turns. The Knicks are like you can't. But offensively at 7 4, his base is high so you can get under him when he dribbles in traffic. It's a turnover waiting to happen. Whereas Jokic is a play initiator and a finisher. Wemby's more of a finisher. He's not really a play initiator. Do you think LeBron's the perfect body where he can. He's big, he's strong, he's fast. Like, you don't get that very. Usually a guy has a hole in his game. Is it possible with Wemby? He'll be the greatest defensive player ever, one of the great leaders. He'll win, but he'll never be offensively his size. You know, Kareem's size in that era was unstoppable. But Wendy sometimes is like Durant. He feels more comfortable outside than in. And at 7:4, he should. He should want to be inside more and that this maybe is the downside to his size or does he grow out of it, or am I overreacting to it?

[Chris Broussard]

Well, he clearly thinks of himself as a guard or small forward, right? Like he's. He loves it out there, right? And he is good and gifted at that stuff. But there is no question he needs to be inside. And look, I picked the spurs to win it in seven. You know how this goes. We always root for our picks, so I'm hoping they win. But if they lose, I do think it's going to force him and the people around him, whether it's Duncan and Robinson and Pop and those guys to be like, look, and Wemby will see it. The light should go off. I need to develop a post game. You don't. Nobody's expecting you to be down there even 50% of the game necessarily. But you need to have it in your arsenal, like, because it's unstoppable. Even if it's him getting it down there and kicking it out for three point shots, it'll help his team and his teammates. So I do think that's the benefit. You know, we saw Michael Jordan talk about when he kept losing to Detroit. He realized, I'm just not strong enough, so I have to get in the weight room. I think Wemby may realize now, if you're a Spurs fan, you're saying, well, he could realize that even if they win, and certainly we'd love to see that. But one way or the other, he has got to get stronger and develop a post game. And I don't expect them to be Shaq, but he definitely needs to have it available to him for games like last night or even you saw Isaiah Hardenstein in the last series, give him some problems if women, you couldn't put small guys on him like Caruso and Anunoby if he was proficient on the block. And so, yeah, I do think that's something he's got that would. That's really the only weakness I Guess there's no other. He can handle the ball, he can shoot, he can hit threes, he's a great free throw shooter. Like there's no other weakness that, that you can point to in this game. And I think he will develop it eventually. And I do think, Colin, he'll be a great offensive player, along with a phenomenal defensive player, Chris Broussard.

[Colin Cowherd]

As always, buddy, great seeing you.

[Chris Broussard]

All right, Colin. Yep.

[Colin Cowherd]

First things first after our show. Yeah, it's. It was fun last night, though. It felt like a. It felt like a big event. You know, Knicks. That was only the fourth Knicks game in 23 days. So they had. Both teams had huge energy in the first half, but you could absolutely see the last 15 minutes of that game. Late third into the fourth, San Antonio lost their legs. You were talking about it on Social last night, J. Mac. They lost their legs airballing open threes. You could just see they just. New York had this incredible surplus of energy. And I mean, when you're a pro athlete and you play, that's only your fourth game in three and a half weeks. You could see New York's energy was through the. And you could see it where. Whereas the physicality wore down the spurs, it did not wear down the Knicks.

[J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)]

So I'm curious, what do you think this. And we'll do this tomorrow, too, but what do you think this means for game two? Because the line opened. I saw spurs minus six, which is higher than game one. Only one day off. So it's not like extra rest yet they get extra rest this weekend. Are we sure the spurs bounce back and win game two? Zigzag theory.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, they either win game two or the series is over. I mean, there's a. That it's the entire season. I'm rooting for one one because I want a long series. I want seven games.

[J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)]

Well, this is not going to be a short series, Colin. This is. Come on. I don't think the nays are winning in five.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, I mean, listen, at one point, spurs led by. Was it 13 points? I mean, they led for a large chunk of the game. It was not it. What happened? Basically, the Knicks do what the Knicks do. They were great in the fourth quarter and the spurs looked kind of chaotic and young and frenetic and tired and, you know, all this stuff everybody saw, I don't think. There's one thing I know for sure, the spurs will shoot better in game two.

[J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)]

You know, Wemby, remember he got ridiculed for getting pushed around by Hartenstein and those Guys, he bounces back like this is what's going to. So I think spurs win game two, but I still still think first quarter is the best bet on the board. Spurs are going to come out fire breathing again. They have one now one four covered four straight in the first quarter at home. All three against the Thunder and now at home against the Knicks. I still think they, they have the great starting lineup. And that first punch again, it's a shock to the system when you've got Wemby full energy at the beginning. I like spurs first quarter.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. Just to show you how the spurs lost their legs. They led by 14. They did not hit a three pointer in the entire third quarter. And that's off an intermission. That's off a break. They were. Those orange slices at half did not help. Live in Chicago, it's the Herd.

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[Colin Cowherd]

You know, we've been talking about the Yannis move forever in the NBA for three years and now everybody's saying that's getting very quiet out there. It's hard to trade in the NBA. First of all, for the uninitiated, your salaries have to come close to matching. So if you, if you get Giannis, you have to give up not only star, they do that to protect an owner from just giving away a star player, which I've always thought the NBA is just so paralyzed by tanking. We just saw nine teams do it this year. If, you know, it was fine. We got a perfect NBA Finals. The playoffs have been fun, we're fine. But the NFL makes it so easy to trade stars. Anybody? I mean, go look. The other day I ranked the top 10 acquisitions in the NFL summer free agency like, like a Kenneth Walker, but four of the top five big trades, you know, And I mean, I just think sports is better when fans can follow things and you don't have Larry Bird rights and swap draft swaps. And you make it very confusing for fans. Look at these players, quarterbacks, hall of Famers, like, I mean, Tyler Linderbaum to me was a lifelong Raven. Sia Miles Garrett, Lawrence Taylor, modern day Sia. I just think it's. And I didn't even list the Trey Hendrickson to the Ravens move. That's a big. Malik Willis to the Dolphins. I think he's going to be really good. So there were, there were 15 moves that could change outcomes and change teams. And I just wish we had more of it in the NBA. But I mean, it's between the limiting what you can do in tanking, limiting what you can do in trading. Part of sports is off season. You know, off seasons are fun. The NFL is brilliant in its ability to keep people like me talking. It doesn't matter if it's Stephen A. It could be me. It could be. It could be anybody hosting shows, Nick Wright. We're talking football off season. You're getting all that free publicity. Here's Miles Garrett talked about how excited he was to play for the Rams.

[Miles Garrett Interviewee]

It starts with Sean and Les now making this appealing destination. It's already appealing by itself with everything that comes with being here and then the city. But it always seemed like people just loved playing for this coaching staff. It's always been about winning. And I wanted to. I want to win a championship, and I'm happy to be a part of a franchise who's in position to do that and do that for. For years to come.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, the other thing, when it. Some of these organizations will go cheap on coaches for years. The Chargers did it, and then the Chargers go and spend a lot of money on Jim Harbaugh. So, first of all, when you spend a lot of money on a Sean Payton or Jim Harbaugh, you get a better coach. Okay? That's the first thing. You get a better coach. But a great example of the Chargers spending money on Jim Harbaugh. Not only do you win more games because you got a better coach, but Mike McDaniel. There were a lot of teams interested in Mike McDaniel from the Dolphins, not as a head coach, but as a coordinator, yet he chose somebody 3,500 miles away. Why? Because Jim Harbaugh and Justin Herbert. So when you. When you look at Sam Darnold is looking at options like Kyle Shanahan in San Francisco, Sean McVay in Los Angeles. Players talk. That's why when the jets go, let's give Aaron Glenn a shot. Never been a head coach. New York's a hard place to be a head coach. And already right now in the NFL, people are like, that guy's not gonna last. There's some things in sports I've just never understood, like, don't go cheap on a coach. That doesn't mean you have to hire a proven head coach. Liam Cohen, who had a great reputation in Tampa, like, people were talking d' Amico Ryan's was in San Francisco. Everybody knew he was going to be a head coach. I mean, he was moving up the food chain. The coaching staff in San Francisco overnight. He. I remember the day he got hired. We're like home run. He's going to be the Sean McVeigh on defense and he has been. Houston's got the best defense in the league. Mike McDonald comes highly recommended. Jesse Minter in Baltimore, I think it'll work. You're never sure. Highly recommended, highly proven. But it sometimes in the NFL it cracks me up. It's like guys like nothing against Todd Monken hope he does well. But Kevin Stefanski is viewed league wide as the better coach and he's won two time NFL coach of the year in Cleveland. Why would you move off him? Like if I'm a wide receiver and I can choose Cleveland and I'm like, I like Stefanski, I'm pro Stefanski. I think he's going to help him in Atlanta. But McVeigh has paid so many dividends for the Rams beyond just being a really good head coach. And you know, it's like John Harbaugh going to the Giants. Yeah, he's obviously a good coach, but he just brings a cachet with him. He's going to get better assistance. Yes. I mean, when you so much of hiring the great coach is they generally bring a great staff with them because let's say you're an assistant coach and Jim Harbaugh gets the Chargers job. Well, you know, they're not going to fire him. He's going to, he's going to get five years, eight years. Sean Payton's going to get as long as he wants in Denver. So I'm willing to move my family to Denver because I know Sean is going to be there forever. You hire an assistant Todd Monken, I mean, do I want to join that staff? How long is he going to last? J. Mac said 30 minutes ago, Is he a one and done? When you spend money on certain positions in the NFL, just think about this. It's like everybody always wants to fire the coach. Well, the problem with firing a coach after one year is you get a reputation as a team. Yeah, it's a turnstile. It is. I mean, that's why sometimes like when Cleveland fire Stefanski, he interviewed with nine teams within three days. What are you doing? So, so how is Monkin going to build a great staff? I mean, Jim Schwartz was there. He's like, I'm out. When. When you're like, well, they fired Stefanski. Stefanski is a top 12 coach in the league now. They kept Andrew Barry, which I thought was right because I think he's great. But the answer can't always be, you know, let's save a few bucks, spend the money if you can get a variable, a Harbaugh, you know, a Shanahan, just spend the money on, well, you

[J. Mac (Jason McIntyre)]

know, we like to try to see around corners. Colin, I'm just telling you, I think the blueprint and I said Miles Garrett was going to get traded, remember a couple months ago, I think what they're doing is this coach is a one and done. I think they're trying to pump up desean Watson so they can trade him. Nobody's trading for Shador and they're not going to win a lot of games with Shador and they're going to go for the number one pick and then you go big game hunting when you can draft a quarterback very high. I know you'd like the roster. They ain't winning seven games. This does not happen.

[Colin Cowherd]

See you tomorrow. Tomorrow is Friday. It's the her. This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.