The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Hour 3 – More on the Rams win over the Seahawks, Caleb Williams working well with Ben Johnson
Original Air Date: November 17, 2025
Podcast: The Herd with Colin Cowherd (iHeartPodcasts & The Volume)

Episode Overview

This episode of The Herd centers on in-depth NFL analysis: the evolving landscape of college football, a close look at the Rams' victory over the Seahawks, Miles Garrett trade speculation, struggles and storylines around several quarterbacks, and the development of Caleb Williams under Ben Johnson. Colin is joined throughout by J Mac, and features an insightful interview with Rams head coach Sean McVay.

The show is characterized by Colin's critical takes on media hype and overreactions, his belief in letting things play out rather than rushing to make decisions, and thoughtful breakdowns of football strategy, leadership, and analytics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Changing Landscape of College Football

[02:15 - 06:50]

• Colin addresses the hand-wringing around new rules like NIL and the transfer portal:
  • "The media does this all the time and it's irritating to me... It's the end of the world. The rich are going to get richer. Run for your lives. And it's never true." (Colin, 02:18)
• Colin believes recent changes have actually expanded competition:
  • Ohio State is good, but Indiana, Ole Miss, and Oklahoma are all competitive.
• Key Quote:
  • "The transfer portal is going to be just fine. I mean right now Indiana football is better than LSU. Ole Miss football is better than Alabama. Did you think that is what the NIL and the transfer portal were going to create?" (Colin, 03:35)

2. Ravens, Lamar Jackson, and Miles Garrett Speculation

[06:50 - 10:27]

• Ravens & Lamar Jackson:
  • Ravens had a "clunker" win over the Browns; Colin observes Lamar doesn't have the same dynamic physicality as earlier in his career.
  • "How many years can you take hits? ... Cam is as big a quarterback, Ben, as big a quarterback as you're going to see. Michael Vick once told me about year four... he took a hit from London Fletcher and he's like, yeah, I don't want to do this anymore." (Colin, 07:27)
• Miles Garrett Trade Speculation:
  • J Mac suggests trading Garrett before he turns 30 for maximum value.
  • Colin pushes back, calling Garrett "literally next to LT the most dominant edge rusher in the history of football" and dismisses moving him while performing at an elite level. (09:55)
  • Colin ranks Garrett above Micah Parsons, Max Crosby, T.J. Watt, and Aidan Hutchinson.

3. Bears, Vikings & Quarterback Development

[10:27 - 13:10]

• JJ McCarthy’s struggles for the Vikings:
  • "Spraying the ball all over the yard and showed his frustrations on the sideline throughout." (J Mac, 10:27)
  • Kevin O’Connell's noncommittal vote of confidence for McCarthy:
    • "Yeah, I don’t... I’m not going to get into any of that right now." (Kevin O’Connell, via Colin, 11:34)
• Colin’s take:
  • Advocates for patience: "I would just keep playing him to the end of the season. You’ve got to get an answer. Maybe it pops." (Colin, 11:52)
  • Stresses the importance of letting young QBs develop without rushing to bench them.

4. Cowboys, Defensive Moves, and NFL Preview

[13:10 - 14:50]

• Quinnen Williams' Cowboys debut:
  • Expresses excitement to play with new team after trade:
    • "They took a chance on me and traded for me and did things that they feel like I can come in to contribute and help this organization go in the right direction and that’s all I plan to do." (Quinnen Williams, 13:39)
• Quick predictions and banter:
  • Score predictions for Cowboys vs Raiders.
  • Quick nod to Sauce Gardner’s impact for the Chiefs/Colts game.

5. Rams’ Victory Over Seahawks & Sean McVay Interview

[15:23 - 28:02]

A. Post-Game Celebration & Team Culture

• Sean McVay praises his team's energy and connection:
  • "I love this group. They energize me, Colin. ... We’re finding different ways to win." (Sean McVay, 15:23)
  • Light moment about watching his language for his two-year-old.

B. Defensive Performance Against Sam Darnold

• Colin: Darnold looked “a beat late.”
• McVay:
  • Emphasizes the synergy between rush and coverage for four interceptions despite zero sacks:
    • "...That’s why I always think stats are for losers because we had zero sacks. But those four interceptions were such a great combination of ... he has to deliver the ball earlier than he wants." (McVay, 16:47)

C. Game Management and Offensive Challenges

• Colin asks about offensive frustration during limited possessions.
• McVay:
  • Discusses playing “clean” in low-possession stretches and credits Stafford’s poise.
  • "Our guy stayed in the fight. And I thought Matthew did a phenomenal job of being able to play the game the way it needed to be played." (McVay, 18:15)

D. Stafford’s Veteran Prowess

• Discussion on how Stafford’s experience is shining:
  • "He’s just doing a great job of understanding the totality of how the game's supposed to be played... it still is aggressive, but it's not reckless." (McVay, 25:51)

E. Analytics vs. Instinct in Coaching

• Colin asks about balancing analytics and gut instinct:
  • "I call it manhalytics..." (Colin, 26:36)
• McVay:
  • "I have tremendous respect for taking all these things in for the input, but in a lot of instances, they got all the answers and no accountability to the outcomes." (McVay, 27:08)
  • Acknowledges the role of instinct and context, highlighting the importance of situational awareness.

F. Leadership on the Rams' Defense

• McVay identifies captains across all three levels: Kobe Turner, Nate Landman, and Quentin Lake, praising communication and leadership depth. (28:05)

6. NFL Strategic Analysis: Analytics and Decision-Making

[28:42 - 32:57]

• Colin criticizes blind reliance on analytics, referencing NFL coaches and MLB manager Dave Roberts.
  • "Analytics doesn’t weigh momentum… analytics doesn’t weigh, well I’ve got an injured right guard and the Eagles defensive interior is the best in the sport." (Colin, 29:16)
• J Mac echoes Colin, emphasizing the need for intuition:
  • "The NFL isn’t blackjack. People are trying to act like it’s, ‘Hey, play by the book.’ … No, we understand each other and know what can pop." (J Mac, 31:03)
• Multiple examples are cited of coaches ignoring in-game context to their peril.

7. Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson’s Dynamic

[38:20 - 39:14]

• Matt Hasselbeck voices skepticism about Caleb Williams’ rapid ascent with the Bears and OC Ben Johnson:
  • "Caleb is a young player learning on the fly and as he's learning they're winning, he's morphing into Ben Johnson's kind of quarterback. Is he there? No, I don't think he is. ... Do I think this is their year? No, they haven't really beat anybody but the schedule is getting tougher here. We'll find out who they really are." (Matt Hasselbeck, 38:40)
• Colin reflects on NFL parody:
  • Rams and New England are consistent, Philadelphia is winning without a clear offensive identity, and some playoff long shots like Seattle or the Colts pose real threats.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Media Overreaction:

  • "I just think the media tends to exaggerate what's going to transpire when there's new stuff introduced to the market. AI will eliminate all jobs. I bet it doesn't." (Colin Cowherd, 04:22)

• On Trading Miles Garrett:

  • "When you have the best player in the world at any position and they're still performing at an elite level, I'm not trading them." (Colin Cowherd, 09:38)

• On Analytics vs. Coaching Gut:

  • "There are moments in games where I do... I just want to see men make plays. I’m not going by the book, I trust my team." (Colin Cowherd, 26:36)
  • "But in a lot of instances, they [analytics people] got all the answers and no accountability to the outcomes." (Sean McVay, 27:08)

• On Quarterbacks and Patience:

  • "Sometimes you need to get answers and you have to have them solidified... So at the end of the year, three or four people, owner, GM, head coach, coordinator, can all go in a room and all agree yay or nay. That's why I think you just have to find the answer. There's no hurry." (Colin Cowherd, 11:52)

Major Timestamps

• NIL & College Football Parity: 02:15 — 06:50
• Ravens, Lamar Jackson & Miles Garrett: 06:50 — 10:27
• Vikings’ QB Dilemma & Patience: 10:27 — 13:10
• Cowboys Preview & NFL Chatter: 13:10 — 14:50
• Rams-Seahawks Recap & Sean McVay Interview: 15:23 — 28:02
• Analytics vs. Instinct Debate: 28:42 — 32:57
• Caleb Williams & Ben Johnson Discussion: 38:20 — 39:14

Episode Takeaways

• The NFL landscape is more fluid and open than in years past, with parity fueled by NIL and the transfer portal in the college game, and smart teams emerging even without all the resources of the blue bloods.
• Media narratives are often reactionary; patience and a wait-and-see approach are often more prudent, especially with young quarterbacks.
• Coaching in the NFL is a blend of analytics and feel, and as Colin and Sean McVay discuss, instinct, momentum, and leadership matter as much as what the numbers say.
• The Rams’ win over the Seahawks showcased defensive synergy and Stafford’s veteran leadership, with Sean McVay providing behind-the-scenes context on strategy, leadership, and adaptability.
• Questions remain about the upper tier of NFL contenders, especially about the Bears and their QB of the future, Caleb Williams, under Ben Johnson.

This summary delivers a comprehensive snapshot of Colin Cowherd’s nuanced football analysis, major storylines, and the lively perspective of NFL insiders, blending the original tone and flavor of the broadcast.