← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
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- [00:00]
Colin Cowherd
This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human brought to you by Apple Card. Hey, you could be earning 2% daily cash back on that purchase and that one and even that one. That's because Apple card users earn 2% daily cash back on every purchase, including everyday items they buy online or in store when using their Apple Card. With Apple Pay, not an Apple Card customer, you can apply in the Wallet app on iPhone subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch Terms and more at Apple Co Benefits Service opens
- [00:36]
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- [03:43]
Jeff Schwartz
I'm waiting for this to settle out. Right, Colin, like there's going to be a point where the return on investment is just not going to be there and the donors aren't going to want to give this money. I don't know when that is, but it's going to. It's impossible to keep going at this rate, in my opinion. And you know, the evaluations are $40 million a roster and not win championships. At some point there's going to be a pullback. I don't know when that is. So yeah, for the next couple of years, maybe the draft is affected by that. We did see Ty Simpson come out and he was a first round pick because he did end up making that money. But there's a lot of talk about he's turned down $7 million to come to the NFL. So we'll see how that goes. But I think at some point there has to be a pullback, right? If you're spending all this money and you're one of these boosters donating year after year after year, without championships, without conference championships, and obviously the landscape is going to change here pretty soon it feels like you might pull back a little bit. So I'm curious when that happens. I felt it would happen sooner. It really hasn't. I think it's accelerated because there's new money right now. Look at what Texas Tech is. I love it, by the way. I love it. If you have the money, go spend for a roster, make these kids rich, go for broke. But at some point there has to be return on investment, I would imagine maybe not. And then there'll be a little bit of a pullback and maybe some guys will go to the NFL early like they used to.
- [04:50]
Colin Cowherd
So one more college football topic. When you were at Oregon, they had the number one rushing offense for a couple of years in the PAC 12. Former NFL lineman. When Pete Carroll dominated college football, they didn't. You didn't have a Pac 12 championship. You didn't have a semifinal game. You just waited for the computer to get you into. And one of the things that drove Pete Carroll crazy is one of his best teams with Mark Sanchez didn't get to play for a national title. And it drove Pete crazy because he thought he had the best team. Is that college football to me has always been a great movie with a weird ending. So I am for an expanded playoff. People are saying the 24 game playoff would ruin the regular season. I would argue this last couple years we've had a playoff, it's been like 12 teams. And the ratings have gone up for the regular season because Texas, Oklahoma, Oregon, Washington, Michigan, Ohio State, it doesn't matter what the records are. Forget the play. It's always going to be gigantic. The real huge rivalries are, oh, I mean, I don't care if Auburn and Alabama have four wins each. The game is gigantic in that region. Do you think 24 teams is a little excessive?
- [05:56]
Jeff Schwartz
I do, but obviously I think I'm in minority here when it comes to the people that run college football. I mean, they often do things, I think that are against the best interest of the sport. But you're right, people are going to watch it. Absolutely. It's going to change the important games. Right. It's going to change the game that the rivalry game. Right. That's still going to be played. I don't buy this idea, by the way, that if we expand, starters are going to sit out of the big game. Absolutely no chance. There's absolutely no chance. Starters sitting out of that game. I don't care what the records are. No one's seen out of Oregon, Washington. Right. It's never going to happen. Okay, but it's going to take that game between maybe two 10 win teams and the loser is still in the playoff. The winner gets bragging rights and maybe a higher seed. It's now going to move to like the 6 and 4 rivalry game between two 6 and 4 teams or two 7 and 3 teams, probably most likely 7 or 14. They'll move the significance of maybe the Bigger rivalry games, the smaller rivalry games. Look, I think a playoff is designed. It should be designed to get the teams in. They can win a championship. I thought last year was a mistake. I thought Notre Dame was left out. They were a team that was good enough to compete for a national championship. So just have one less G5 team, put Notre Dame, and you have the 12 teams you need. I'll watch 2014 playoff. We're all going to watch it. Obviously, coaches love it. It allows them to say that they're a playoff team. Right. I'm not sure we're going to find a different champion. We're not a different champion, but I don't know if we need more weeks. Maybe we work in other buys. The conference championship game idea of moving that to basically a playing game is intriguing to me. I don't think the sport needs it, doesn't need it. It's going to get it. And we'll just have the same, you know, 12 teams will be in every year, probably a couple of new teams here and there, and we'll continue to watch it. The ratings won't go down. I promise you that. I mean, look, we had games last year. They're uncompetitive and the ratings still went up.
- [07:34]
Colin Cowherd
So I want to switch to Aaron Rodgers. I've said before is they could have had Sam Darnold, Malik Willis, Kyler Murray. They could have drafted Jackson. Dart is that the Steelers are the only NFL franchise that treat quarterback like an interior old lineman or a slot corner that will get to it next year. It's like, guys, it's quarterback. Are you surprised? They have backed themselves into a corner so much that this is the best option, which today it is.
- [08:03]
Jeff Schwartz
I'm not surprised that they keep doing this, right. They refuse to admit where they are in the NFL. Look, I think you build your team really one of two ways, right? Either go for it, all right, like, you're going for it this year, or we're pulling back a little bit, rebuild on the fly, and we have hope for next year. That's sort of the way now, if you can do both the same time. I think Seattle blended that, right? They were really good with all their rookies and young guys, and they kind of went for last year with other players. Pittsburgh's in the middle. They're in the absolute worst place. They're not winning a championship. They're not. We know that they're not winning a championship. They're also not going to be bad enough to draft in the top seven or eight, which is in this draft feels like a good position to, to get a quarterback. They sort of refuse this idea of a rebuild. And you can do a rebuild on the fly without saying it. Just start Will Howard for the season, go five and 12 in this year, right. And draft eighth overall and get a quarterback or you can easily make this happen. But they refuse to acknowledge where they are. And they are a historically winning franchise in the NFL. They should always believe they can win a Super bowl. But some years you can't. And going back to Rogers makes no, it doesn't help the future, right? He won't be the quarterback next year. It doesn't help him with the draft pick for next year, doesn't help him this year. They're not winning a Super bowl this season. They probably don't win the division this year. And so I don't understand this one year process they keep doing. At some point you have to be bold and find a quarterback in the future. And they refuse to do that.
- [09:19]
Colin Cowherd
So I here's my working theory is that if you asked any coach in the NFL taking over a football team and said, listen, you got in Pittsburgh never fires its coaches, right? More than any team, the Steelers, Mike McCarthy is going to coach here and then he's going to retire. He's not going to get fired. He's got, let's just say five years minimum. If you asked any coach that had a guaranteed contract going forward, if you said you can start your first year with an old guy at quarterback that you didn't get along with and it was really ugly, especially behind the scenes or bottom out, play these two young kids and see if they can chop it up and play. Every single coach ever would take the second option, which is let's see if Drew Aller can play, let's see if you know, Will Howard can play. And by the way, to add another layer to this next year's a great college quarterback draft, I think McCarthy is publicly taking a bullet because he would rather go with the kids. But he got the job and part of the deal is don't bad mouth us when we bring Aaron back. Am I as my working theory, I
- [10:30]
Jeff Schwartz
mean, I have to imagine that this was talked about when they hired him, right? I'm sure he asked for the plan a quarterback. And the plan I guess is to go win eight or nine games. And look, you're right about the way this ended. Remember Aaron Rodgers and McCarthy did not end well. Like he got him fired. He got him fired and, and now they're supposed to be best friends again and work this on. Look, they're professionals. They'll make a. They'll manage to make this work. But again, I, I don't if you're a Steelers fan, how are you looking forward to the season? You know exactly how it's going to be. Now, to be fair, you know the last 10 season, everyone in a playoff game in nine years, you know the last nine were going to go anyways. But this doesn't feel like any hope. And you're right about bottoming out. Look, I think that if you ask McCarthy, hey let's, let's sort of get rid of the old guys, let's go young this year and then next year we'll hit it hard. I think he would rather take that. But the pride of the organization at some point you have to take. You have to say for a year or two we're going to be bad. And there's plenty examples of it working or teams are bad. If the Patriots are bad for your guy, Drake may like it works. It does work if you do it right and Pittsburgh refuses to do it right.
- [11:27]
Colin Cowherd
So schedules came out and you tell me as a former player what matters what was really interesting and you've been known to place a better to the Cowboys over under went up a full game based on not just Caleb Downs, not just it went up on a scheduling break where Dallas has almost the opposite of the Niners. They've got some favorable kind of quirky road advantages. You tell and I think Dallas a lot of their you know they've got some youth but Kenny Clark's older and Rashawn Gary's older and Tack is older and you know they've got some older players. I think older players need more rest than young guys. But were you surprised the over under changed for Dallas like a win and do you think that stuff matters as a player? Did did miles I mean niners 38,000 did miles matter to you?
- [12:19]
Jeff Schwartz
It's funny on this side of it now seeing the analysis of the schedule because all the things that people think they we care about that we cares about never once they think about rest disparity travel schedule. You look at bye week right. That's important for mental refresh. You've got Thursday night Football. You look at your week one opponent. You look at sort of where things are spaced out. Maybe there's a rivalry game for you just personally right. Revenge game for you look at national TV games. You have an opportunity to play in front of your friends and family. The rest stuff obviously matters right. But We've yet to see a lot of data. I get to see data showing me that rest disparity actually matters to wins and losses. Obviously strength of schedule matters, right? Who you play. But look, the Cowboys, I think it's time to admit that they're actually going to be good this season. I know people don't want to do that for fear of, fear of like. And I've done this before, I'm like, I'm on the Cowboys and Dak gets hurt. Look, Dak is a very good quarterback. When he has been healthy, he has been, I would say like in the tier two of quarterbacks in the NFL, right. If you have sort of tier one, the guys, you know, he's sort of at the top of tier two. He's been very good. The offensive line is good, the wide receivers are good. I think running back's just okay. They improved their defense a lot this offseason. Whether it was trades, draft, free agency and Shawnheimer, I think we all thought that job was like a one year deal. Just that you're put Schonheimer in there and they'll figure it out after the season. He did a good job. Good coaching staff, right? Great job last season. It's a legitimately good football team. And I think that their win total move because people realized after the schedule came out like, hey, schedule is pretty, pretty manageable and it's good football team. I think they're very live to win the division.
- [13:45]
Colin Cowherd
Okay, so the other schedule to me, and it hasn't gotten a lot of play is I saw a headline today that said, does Kansas City have the three toughest. The toughest three game stretch in the NFL. Forget three Bills, Bill's Rams, Bengals, Patriots, Niners, Chargers. Six Pro bowl quarterbacks in a row, four on the road for a team that's moved off Tuney and McDuffie in the last two years. So they've gotten sneaky old. They got a lot of old and a lot of young and unproven. And even Kenneth Walker, who's the big free agent acquisition, he's been banged up his entire career. And so I'm like, that to me is the toughest schedule. Six Pro bowl quarterbacks, most on the road. Is that something that jumps out to you?
- [14:32]
Jeff Schwartz
Absolutely. And what jumps out to me too is a week five buy, a week 12 buy would have been nice for Kansas City, right? I mean you have that early buy after a pretty easy schedule and you play Denver at home. Colts, Dolphins, Raiders, you're probably three and one at the worst. And Then you get your buy so early for, as you mentioned, some guys who could probably use a week 12 buy. And then you run through that gauntlet. Kansas City is used to playing these schedules. It's not anything new to them. But as they're, as they're currently constructed, I think that that buy is really what hurts. If you told me they got the schedule, but they got like a Week 12 buy in between Buffalo and LA to feel a lot better about it, but to basically go with a buy and then you play a bunch of road games, by the way, like in a row. I think it's pretty tight now. They're used to it, obviously used to it. They need some guys defensively to step up. They need these young guys to play well pretty early, maybe by the back half of the season, you're playing much better. But you know, the NFL is telling you they got, they got Monday football, Sunday football, like Mahomes is going to play. Put out a video there today. He's golfing, he's going to play early on. You know, can they get their young guys, especially on defense, up to speed before the end of the year? The last thing is this, and it's hard to project this now, but injuries have played a big role at the end of the season. Right? How many guys are healthy? Like, that's a big part of this. But on, on paper, man, it looks like a pretty daunting schedule here at the back half. That by, I hate that by week five buy is the worst. Give me like a week 11, week 10, week nine, some around there by halfway through the season.
- [15:52]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, the, you know, we were talking about the Steelers and they just, they just won't take quarterback seriously. Were you surprised at all that? The Niners, already an old, expensive, brittle team, went out and got Dre Greenlaw, Mike Evans and Christian Kirk, and I'm like, timeout. You just doubled down on age and injuries. Did that surprise you?
- [16:13]
Jeff Schwartz
I don't like the Niners roster building, man. It, to me, they're, they're, they're older, as you mentioned, and there's no depth. And part of that is, I know there's a little bit of arrogance in San Francisco about this, but they have not drafted well. Look at their drafts. They have drafted terribly for four drafts in a row versus Seattle. Go look at Seattle's drafts. Like, the reason these teams win is they draft really well. They have veterans, of course, that are good, but you have to, you have to have that depth. If a couple guys get hurt on San Francisco, there's no depth, there's no backups, there's no one to fill these roles. And look, they kind of sort of know with, with, with commodities because they don't have the depth. Like if Mike Evans is not there, who's your, who's at wide receiver for you? If Greenlaw is not playing, who are your linebackers? Who are the guys ready to play? So this is a failure on their part in the draft. They have not drafted very well for years now. And I know they sort of laughed at the idea about the consensus big boards. That's a real thing. It really does matter. We have data that shows year after year that if you draft sort of along what we think. And look, a lot of these guys that do the big boards, they talk to NFL teams. They just don't make up their own grades. They call around, hey, what do you have this guy graded? So it's a general idea of where these guys are at. If you continually and routinely draft above the big board, right? Draft overdraft, these guys. You get the Niners drafts. Go look at the drafts. They're terrible drafts. They have very few impact players right now that are on rookie contracts. And you cannot win long term the NFL if you don't have those guys.
- [17:35]
Colin Cowherd
Jeff Schwartz former Oregon Duck Bear Bets podcast with Chris Felica here's one that's totally random, but I'm into it. I pick an over under in the NFL every year. Okay, so I, I, I and I five years in a row. Last year I liked New England. I thought that was a. Who was my other one guys that new. No, no, New England. Minnesota one year. Rams, whatever. Denver a couple years ago. Okay, give me your over under a team because Vegas doesn't make a lot of mistakes but they make enough the New York Giants to me again, I cross your fingers on Malik neighbors. I wonder if he's injury prone. But I mean you start looking at the issues they solved. We've seen Brandon Staley to Harbaugh. A coach can literally change the culture. I loved their draft. My over team right now today is the New York Giants. You're staring at your screen and give me one future bet that you would, you would embrace.
- [18:40]
Jeff Schwartz
Yeah. So I think that the Giants is just so popular and trendy that it kind of worries me. Like everyone's on the Giants this year. Right? Like it's a team. And I agree with you. Look, their, their team is probably better than the record the last couple of years they've had injuries and the Jackson darkest they have, they got to figure out a way like it's. You can be aggressive and run. Just slide, just slide or dive. I think a dive actually is the way to go instead of sliding. But just get down a couple that I bet on. So far, I think Carolina is going to be good. It's seven and a half or six and a half. Look at what they did last season. I think they've had a very good two years of building this roster. Dan Morgan's done a really good job of building this roster up. It comes down to Bryce Young continuing to improve and playing better, but he feels like, or they feel like a team that in this division. I don't trust the Falcons really with the corner situation. I think the Bucks are a step back team this year. So I think we'll look back and think like, oh, you know, Mayfield's a little older now. The roster is sort of going through a little bit of a cycle where older players are out and younger players are in. So I think Carolina, me, six and a half is just over seven half would be playable. I think for me there. I think on the underside. I kind of like the Colts to go under this season. I just don't know how good they are. Look at their roster, look at the way last year ended. I don't trust Daniel Jones. I think that division is getting better, right? Jacksonville should be better again. Same, sort of. I think Tennessee is getting better. Houston's going to be good again. Houston's defense, probably the best in the NFL right now. The Colts to me feel like if they go one and five in division, you're going under seven and a half. And so those are a couple that I've eyed so far and can't wait to be here before we know it. College football too. We'll be here soon and we'll be ready to go. I know you'll be at The Coliseum Week 4. Maybe I'll fly in and we'll sit next to each other. I wear my organ gear. You could put on a USC shirt.
- [20:21]
Colin Cowherd
What is week four at the Coliseum?
- [20:23]
Jeff Schwartz
What is it, Oregon or usc, Buddy?
- [20:25]
Colin Cowherd
Oh, oh, yeah, I already got that as a W on my pocket calendar.
- [20:30]
Jeff Schwartz
I'm sure you do. Good seeing you, buddy. Take care, buddy.
- [20:36]
Colin Cowherd
Jeff Schwartz, who knows his stuff. Yeah, it's the cold Colts is a really smart under. That's a really good play. I listened to J. Mac 2 years ago on the Saints and got smoked
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J. Mac
like, you know, didn't I have Colts Friday in the headlines? Unders?
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Colin Cowherd
You did.
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J. Mac
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We love Colts stinking and the jets get their pick.
- [20:58]
Colin Cowherd
Future bets it's so much fun to me. There's and Vegas makes about one or two mistakes a year, but by and large, you know, it's like, it's like, you know the NFL schedule all of a sudden you find a little quirk that's an advantage to the Cowboys and all the gamblers jump on it. That I just love that little little insular inside the rope, you know. Info Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app hey, it's host
- [21:31]
Ben Maller
of the Fifth Hour with Ben Mahler. Would mean a lot to have you join us on our weekly auditory journey. You're asking, what in God's name is the fifth Hour?
- [21:39]
Colin Cowherd
I'll tell you.
- [21:39]
Ben Maller
It's a spin off of the Ben Mather Show, a cult hit overnights on fsr. Why should you listen? Picture, if you will, a world where we chat with captains of industry in media, sports and more every week. Explore some amazing facts about human nature and more. Listen to the fifth hour with Ben Maller on the iHeartRadio album app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast
- [21:59]
Colin Cowherd
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- [22:46]
doors and at the American Military University, it can open doors for the whole family. If you have a loved one who served in the military, you may qualify for reduced tuition. AMU offers flexible online programs designed to fit your schedule so you can keep moving forward wherever life takes you. Learn more at AMU Apus Edu Military Open doors to the future for you and your family with the help of American Military University. Hi, it's Colin Coward. If you want your outdoor space to really stand out, Deckorator surestone Technology is where you should start when you build your deck with Deckorators decking made with Surestone technology, you're getting something totally different from the typical wood fiber composites out there. Decking with Surestone technology is made through a patented process that uses crushed rock, which gives every board incredible strength and durability. And Deckorators engineered it with a unique surface design that increases traction in wet conditions. So if you live in a rainy area or you've got kids running around outside, it's a safer, more comfortable surface. Plus, there are more than 40 different color and size combos so you can design a customized outdoor space that actually fits your home and your style. It's durable, it's safe, it looks great and it's going to stand out. Build seasons right around the corner. Order a sample today. Visit decorators.com herd to get your free sample. That's Decorators with a k again. Decorators.com herd support for the show comes from Public.
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- [25:22]
Colin Cowherd
Spurs OKC tonight, the start of what could be a long, long rivalry meeting in the Western Conference finals. Here's J. Mac with the news.
- [25:33]
Jeff Schwartz
No no no, Turn on the news.
- [25:35]
Colin Cowherd
This is the Herdline news.
- [25:37]
J. Mac
Now let's start with the Minnesota Timberwolves who were extinguished by the Spurs. I mean they got destroyed on Friday night. Interesting exit interview if you will. Nas Reed, the very talented power forward came out and made some comments. He was talking about players on his team and there's some question. Who was it who he was talking about? Here's the quote from Nas Reed, Colin, and let me get your best guess.
- [26:01]
Nas Reed
They're a team where, you know, they're selfless, like I've mentioned before. So I think this probably does some of those aspects. I think, you know, I think we have more than enough talent, then we have more than enough, you know, guys bring it to the table and compete at a high level. But just, you know, being less moody. I think that's just the name of the game for us, just being less moody and more selfless and then just carrying ourselves with, you know, championship aspirations like we've done before, just having that as the cherry on top.
- [26:28]
Colin Cowherd
I love Nasri.
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J. Mac
Yeah, he's good.
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Colin Cowherd
So he's one of my favorite, like utility men, like rebound, defense. Tough, gets the game. Totally. I. I think he is. You know, you say this for very few players in the league. You could put on every single team. Yeah. In the NBA and he would be a benefit. Naz Reed's one of my favorite guy plays his butt off. He's tough, he'll defend. I love the guy.
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J. Mac
Hits threes. Here's a question.
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Colin Cowherd
Julius Randle is.
- [26:56]
J. Mac
You think it was Randall?
- [26:57]
Colin Cowherd
I think. I think Julius Randle who was a smoking. You know what in that final game. Julius Randle's not. And I think he's a 199 guy. Julius Randle is he. He's always valued his offense more than the team does. I think he's done well.
- [27:14]
J. Mac
It's tough in game one. Julius Randle, like, want it for them. He was awesome. Remember, Ant was on the minutes.
- [27:19]
Colin Cowherd
He does that in every series. He'll have the game.
- [27:21]
J. Mac
Yeah, well, against the Lakers, do you remember that? Like, it's the Lakers. He played like the best series of his career and kills. The Lakers were like, geez, Julius ran. Holy cow. So you're sure he wasn't talking about Anthony Edwards, right?
- [27:32]
Colin Cowherd
Well, Anthony Edwards isn't going anywhere. And he would not call out Anthony Edwards. You're not going to call out passive aggressive, the one of the three stars in the NBA? No way.
- [27:41]
J. Mac
Well, I wondered because Anthony Edwards, of course, with like eight minutes left, goes over to the bench of. Of the spurs and is like, hey, guys, great series. Congratulations. There was like eight minutes left in the game. I'd never seen that before. Stan Van Gundy was kind of hammering Ant at that moment.
- [27:56]
Colin Cowherd
But Nas. Nas Reed is five years younger and 10 million cheaper than Randall. Randall's on the way out.
- [28:02]
J. Mac
Yeah, if they can get him out for sure, he's a goner. All right, let's move on to the NFL and the Green Bay Packers. One of us on this show likes the Packers a lot this year. Obviously they had the wild card round exit last year. Their new linebacker, Zaire Franklin. Remember he was good with the Colts. He is very confident in this packers upside. Take a listen.
- [28:23]
Zaire Franklin
It starts with the quarterback, you know, Jordan Love. You know, I told him he was the main reason I came to Green Bay. You know, I wasn't coming to Green Bay, you know, or going to organization without a proven franchise qb. And he is that. He's a the type of quarterback you want to be around. It's been a long time since I've seen, you know, QB1. Just really raised on the level of everybody by his work ethic like that. So it's really dope to see. And then at the end of the day, you know, we got, you know, one of the best defensive players on the planet, Micah Parsons as well too. So when you got a quarterback and you got a pass rush, you know you got a chance.
- [28:58]
Colin Cowherd
Yep.
- [28:59]
J. Mac
Yeah, I think we're going to be a little head to head this season, big guy. I'm just telling you this packers schedule boy three of their final four games, cold weather. Lambo, you know, Malik Willis in a revenge game.
- [29:11]
Colin Cowherd
No, they, they got, they got. Of all the teams in the NFL that got a scheduling break.
- [29:16]
J. Mac
Oh yeah.
- [29:16]
Colin Cowherd
In the last couple years they've been a seventh seed. So again Dallas scheduling break huge brand Bears considering it's the toughest schedule break big brand Green Bay break big Brent Green Bay Bears and the Cowboys all got what you would say is little scheduling breaks.
- [29:41]
J. Mac
And by the way, who's look at the quarterbacks they face just to start the season. Kyler Murray or what's his face. The other guy who's on his way out, J.J. mcCarthy. Thank you J.J. mcCarthy. Then it's Geno Smith. Then it's oh the we don't even know who's starting for Atlanta. Is it Penix or Tua. And then it's Baker Mayfield. Like they should start 4 0. Green Bay should start the season 4 0. And then it's like that matchup with the Bears is a huge one at home. And so you're looking at five and oh Colin, I don't want to go overboard. And then you look at the end schedule.
- [30:11]
Colin Cowherd
Well I think like there are three playoff teams from the NFC North. I think the Bears, the Lions and the packers all make the playoffs and
- [30:19]
J. Mac
the closer you look. Yeah, one of those. If Dallas is going to get in one of those, three ain't getting in because we know the Eagles are not going anywhere. They're going to make it in the playoffs. Now you got Seahawks, Rams. I mean, NFC is really.
- [30:33]
Colin Cowherd
Let me. Let me just do this real quick. Top of my head. Okay, so we, like Seattle and LA are getting in. Okay. I, I think Chicago, I think Detroit's going to be really good. And Green Bay. Let's see they get in.
- [30:44]
J. Mac
Okay. Okay, then just pick one from the South. It doesn't matter. Saints, Falcons, or.
- [30:50]
Colin Cowherd
Okay, I'll just put Saints. I don't know if I agree with that.
- [30:52]
Nas Reed
So.
- [30:54]
Colin Cowherd
So there's two coming from the NFC East. Eagles, well, they have the best roster and so it's going to come down to Dallas and the New York Giants. I like the Giants because I do think they have a better coach and coaching matters.
- [31:10]
J. Mac
Well, wait a sec. How many did you have from the North? Did you have three? Fairs, Lions, Packers.
- [31:15]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [31:15]
J. Mac
Three, two.
- [31:17]
Colin Cowherd
And then, and then. Wait, hold on. Timeout.
- [31:20]
J. Mac
Yeah, you got from the West.
- [31:22]
Colin Cowherd
Hold on. Timeout. I can't even spell. It's tough, man. Hold on, hold on. 3, 4, 5, 6. Oh, I don't get that. Oh, my. This is a C cupboard live on the air. I have to pick one.
- [31:34]
J. Mac
Unless you want to pull the Bears out because they're brutal schedule.
- [31:38]
Colin Cowherd
No, I don't think it's that brutal. God, that is.
- [31:43]
J. Mac
Yeah.
- [31:43]
Colin Cowherd
NFC is rough.
- [31:45]
J. Mac
It's.
- [31:46]
Colin Cowherd
Somebody's gonna be possible that nobody comes from the NFC south and we just give it an off year. Listen, guys, we love you, but we're gonna, we're gonna keep. We're gonna do it with six, seven divisions, not eight.
- [31:58]
J. Mac
We need the good teams playing in January. Final story Con. Let's go to the NBA. Obviously, tonight's Thunder spurs game is massive.
- [32:05]
Colin Cowherd
Jalen Williams, what's the number on this? Do we know?
- [32:08]
J. Mac
Six and a half was what I saw.
- [32:09]
Jeff Schwartz
Yeah.
- [32:11]
Colin Cowherd
No, that's a big number.
- [32:14]
J. Mac
Yeah, well, it's the Thunder. It's the mighty Thunder. So Jalen Williams come back from the hamstring, cleared to play. Doesn't sound like there's a minutes restriction. I saw one report said he could have played in Game 4 against the Lakers, but what was the point? I'm just curious how they divide up the minutes. You know, just Hartenstein match up with. With Wemby. Do they go with four guards or guards and Wings and Chet or Hartenstein? I don't know. Colin, we need to pick live on air here. Go, go. You got it.
- [32:44]
Colin Cowherd
I think the Spurs I'm going to take the spurs money line to win the game outright.
- [32:50]
J. Mac
Oh, oh. Oh, shucks. Okay, spurs going in now. Now listen, if they can steal game one, I think that's when. Then you start fast forwarding. They win this series. Colin, does OKC go get Giannis in the off season? If they lose, I mean, you gotta do something. They've got the ammo. They've got. They've got too many players for roster spots. They got draft picks going forward.
- [33:14]
Colin Cowherd
Well, I'm not. You're not getting a poo poo platter to get Giannis. So they're not.
- [33:18]
J. Mac
If Wemby cooks them and they're like, we can. We don't have a matchup for him.
- [33:22]
Colin Cowherd
We gotta get Giannis. Then you give them Hartenstein and Chet Holmgren for Giannis. And now that's interesting. Sam Presti's a deal, mate. I'll give you both of our bigs, Holmgren and Hartenstein for Giannis, and I'll give you one of our bench players and a pick.
- [33:38]
J. Mac
Well, hard I think is a free agent, so it might be a sign.
- [33:40]
Colin Cowherd
You're right, you're right. My bad.
- [33:42]
J. Mac
But no, you're right. Chet could be on the block. J Dub, I mean, he's barely played this season, barely played in the playoffs. Is he their second best player still? AJ Mitchell. I listen to the Thunder loses series. I mean, it gets crazy.
- [33:55]
Nas Reed
This.
- [33:56]
Colin Cowherd
Oh, that is.
- [33:57]
J. Mac
You like that take, huh? You like that? See, look at that. I mean, J Dub has had a good run, but if somebody's expendable, you're not moving. Sga. Is it Chit or J Dub?
- [34:07]
Colin Cowherd
Well, I'd like Biggs over J Dub. I would go sga, J Dub and the young guys that established themselves this postseason. I like Jalen Williams, but I. I could move off Jalen Williams. J Mac with the news.
- [34:20]
J. Mac
Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by.
- [34:23]
Colin Cowherd
The Herd lie news. We go to the Steelers camp next. The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.
- [34:36]
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- [35:24]
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- [38:00]
Colin Cowherd
Mike Devabo has been covering the Steelers for the Athletic and covering the NFL for several years, previously at the Pittsburgh Post Gazette. Aaron Rodgers is back, OTAs have started and Mike Defebo is now joining us live as he has kind of become a regular on this show. So you know I said when I was a kid growing up the Steelers brand was defense and now it's defensive. They get defensive when you acknowledge that they spend too much money on defense and they treat quarterback with little or no urgency. So you know, my take is, listen, they could have gotten Darnold, Malik Willis, they could have drafted Jackson, Dart, Daniel Jones. There's a lot of options Kyler Murray, Vikings got for a million three. I would argue all of those at this point are better than a 42 year old Aaron Rodgers, but it's almost kind of what they've become. I mean your, your kind of take on how it played out and Aaron for a year, what's the room, the quarterback room going to feel like?
- [39:08]
Mike DeFabo
Yeah, you know, I think to answer your question, let's go back to a year ago and as the Steelers sat there, they said they weren't enthralled by any of the options in the draft and the options weren't great in general in the free agent market. But Aaron Rodgers was probably their best bet of the available options. Well, here they are a year later and everyone was hoping that that one year agreement was going to bring both sides closer to their next chapter. For Aaron Rodgers, it was supposed to be one year that he could finish out his career with a more stable franchise. And for the Steelers it was supposed to get them to that 2026 draft class that was supposed to be much stronger. But here they are a year later, both sides are in the same place and I think that the biggest fear or concern for Steelers fans are people who fall this team is not that Aaron Rodgers is going to play really poorly because I think he showed last year he could still play at a decent level. The concern really would be he plays just well enough to keep them away from drafting the potential quarterback to get them out of this purgatory, but not quite quite well enough to get the Steelers over the hump and make them a legitimate contender.
- [40:12]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah the, you know, I've been making this argument today is that the Steelers don't fire coaches. So McCarthy's going to be there until he retires. Let's just give him five years. I mean, and he is a good coach. He and John Harbaugh have the same resume. Basically, he's a good football coach. So he's not getting run and he knows it. And I think if you privately asked him, listen, you could go with Drew Aller, Will Howard and just see what you've got. You win seven games, you're not getting fired. Next year's a great quarterback draft class, he would choose that. He would not choose the quarterback that threw him under the bus in Green Bay, that he has to take one for the owners, take one for the team, say nice things in public. But no coach knowing you're a guaranteed five to six to seven year head coach would want this relationship again. Right. That makes. But he's kind of taken one for the Rooneys. That's my theory.
- [41:10]
Mike DeFabo
Well, I think that there's another variable in this conversation, and that's Mike McCarthy is from Pittsburgh. And if he wins and he does well, it's going to mean that much more. But really on the flip side, if things go sideways for Mike McCarthy in year one, not only is he going to have the whole fan base wondering why the Steelers went this direction, but also his family is going to have to hear that and people that care about him might be some of the same people saying that. So for him, in a sense, it's almost like a safe year. One where he can have a little bit of a Runway to a Drew Aller or Will Howard or this quarterback that they draft in the first round next year. So I think in a lot of ways it's a very Steelers move to bring in Aaron Rodgers because it's also a safe move. And that seems to be the approach that this franchise has taken. Rather than taking a risk, they're content to settle for an outcome that likely leads you somewhere around 10 and 7.
- [42:09]
Colin Cowherd
Fifth straight year they lead in defensive spending. They were embarrassed at the draft of Makai Lemon. They don't have a plan at quarterback. How long do we know Omar Khan is running the ship? I had two different people in the league this off season say, I'm not sure he's the answer going forward. Is the front office. Are they going to be as loyal as they are to their coaches if this thing goes sideways? The draft picks don't hit. Aller's a total miss. What about upstairs with Pittsburgh.
- [42:39]
Mike DeFabo
The way I'll answer this question is if you go back to Omar Khan's first draft, he walked out of the room after trading up for Broderick Jones. And Mike Tomlin gave him this cool nickname, the con artist. And people saw him as very much this wheeling and dealing, smart, out of the box type of general manager. And I do think that over time, some of the honeymoon period is starting to wear off when it comes to Omar Khan, where right now, as you mentioned, the Makai Lemon situation. Also, let's look at this Aaron Rodgers dynamic. You know, Omar Khan was the one who said, we do not expect this to go like it did last year. Aaron Rodgers never came out and said anything about a timeline. It was the general manager, Omar Khan that put parameters in place here. And then ultimately, as this whole thing dragged out, people were questioning, why did Omar Khan say that? Why did he make that statement? Was he not in the know? And so right now, the way that I'll phrase it is I think that there is a level of pressure where that honeymoon phase is now over. And now people are looking for Omar Khan, in the absence of Mike Tomlin, to make these savvy decisions to get the Steelers over the hump to finally win a playoff game, and most importantly, to get them out of this quarterback purgatory.
- [43:57]
Colin Cowherd
You think they're any good this year? What do you think?
- [44:00]
Mike DeFabo
Man, Mike McCarthy, he inherits a 107 team that went to the playoffs last year. I think that their roster is better. The difficult thing is the division is also better around them. You can't expect Joe Burrow to miss a number of games. And Lamar Jackson, that definitely benefited the Steelers last year. So ultimately, I think it's going to come down to three things. Number one, they've got a young, promising offensive line with a lot of moving pieces and question marks. How quickly does that group gel? Number two, as you mentioned, for the fifth consecutive year, they're going to employ the NFL's highest paid defense. Can Patrick Graham get more out of that group than Terrell Austin and Mike Tomlin were able to. And number three, and most importantly, how does Aaron Rodgers play in December and January when he's 43 years old? Yeah, you know, it's like the old country song, I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was. Can he, when they need him, produce those moments and those flashes of brilliance to remind us why he is a four time MVP and future hall of Famer?
- [44:58]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I mean, you look at the schedule. J. Mac pointed this out the other day. You got a couple of Raven games. We don't know with Jesse Minter how good they are, but there's a lot of Carolina, Tennessee, you know, I mean, listen, the beginning of the year, Atlanta, how good? Cincinnati, Cleveland, Indy, NFC south teams. Cleveland again. The first part of the schedule's got a lot of wins.
- [45:21]
J. Mac
It.
- [45:22]
Colin Cowherd
But it really starts with Joe Burrow after the buy. And as you say, that's an older Aaron Rodgers taking some shots. Yeah, that, that, that, that last eight games, Ravens twice, Texans defense, Broncos pass rush. Philadelphia, I think Philadelphia, you can say at the buy, is going to be feeling themselves. And, you know, the last couple of years, they have melted. I mean, it's really weird. Three or four. The last several years they've melted. So I think I kind of feel 9 and 8. I'm kind of a 9 and 8.
- [45:53]
Mike DeFabo
I think that that's fair. And I think that really, the Steelers, as you mentioned, they're going to have to get off to a hot start because that week 10 through week 15, that is an absolute gauntlet. You see three primetime games. The game against the Broncos is on Black Friday. A lot of playoff teams, a lot of divisional opponents. And then the matchup with the Ravens and Jesse Minter versus Aaron Rodgers is going to be fascinating because last year Aaron Rodgers against the LA Chargers played one of the worst games of his entire career, at least from a statistical perspective. Now he has to see Jesse Minter not once, but twice this season. And it will be fascinating to see that cat and mouse game and that chess match between those two guys.
- [46:33]
Colin Cowherd
Mike Tafabo, great stuff as always. Day one report on the Cedars. Thanks, buddy.
- [46:38]
Mike DeFabo
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.
- [46:40]
Colin Cowherd
You bet. Yeah, they. Yeah. God, Aaron did play bad in that game, didn't he? That was a stinker. All right, J. Mac. Well, good day today. Tonight, OKC minus six and a half. That's a sh. That's a. I'm taking the spurs money line.
- [46:58]
J. Mac
Go spurs, baby.
- [47:01]
Colin Cowherd
See you tomorrow.
- [47:02]
It's the herd brought to you by Apple Card. Hey, you could be earning 2% daily cash back on that purchase. And that one. And even that one. That's because Apple card users earn 2% daily cash back on every purchase, including everyday items they buy online or in store when using their Apple Card. With Apple Pay, not an Apple Card customer, you can apply in the Wallet app on iPhone, subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs bank usa, Salt Lake City branch terms and more at Apple co benefits hi, it's Colin Coward.
- [47:35]
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