THE HERD - Hour 3 - NFL playoff picture, HC Sean Payton is doing the unthinkable for the Broncos

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Hour 3

Date: December 15, 2025
Episode Focus:
NFL Playoff Picture, Sean Payton's Surprising Success in Denver, Steelers’ Stagnation, Franchise QB Talk, and College Football Standouts

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Colin Cowherd and Jason McIntyre dive deep into the evolving playoff picture for both the NFC and AFC, analyze the remarkable turnaround the Denver Broncos have experienced under Sean Payton, examine concerns about the Pittsburgh Steelers’ direction, and discuss emergent college quarterback stars and their NFL prospects. Special guest Mike DeFebo joins to provide an inside look at the Steelers’ situation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. NFC Playoff Picture Analysis

[00:32 - 05:30]

• Colin highlights the current NFC standings, noting unexpected clinches and injuries shaking up seed preferences.
• Main narrative: Green Bay’s recent injuries (Christian Watson, Tucker Kraft, Micah Parsons out) have made them a more favorable opponent than Detroit, who now appears as a more dangerous wildcard due to their healthy roster and playmakers (Gibbs, Hutchinson, Amon-Ra St. Brown).
• Colin: "I'd rather face Green Bay today than Detroit with all that firepower." [03:42]

Memorable Moment:

• “So Detroit with Green Bay's injuries to me would be the tougher matchup for anybody in the NFC playoff picture.” – Colin Cowherd [04:30]

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2. AFC Playoff Picture & Confidence Rankings

[04:45 - 06:40]

• AFC does not feel as “sharp at the top” as the NFC.
• Denver, under Sean Payton, clinches a playoff berth despite Russell Wilson’s contract still looming over the cap—a testament to Payton's coaching.
• Houston and rookie QB C.J. Stroud are seen as a dangerous lower seed, touted as the “one I trust” after Denver. Skepticism remains regarding the Colts and Buffalo’s defense.

Notable Quote:

• “How do they have a roster this good on both sides?...That is all-time coaching. Sean Payton...guy’s great. First ballot guy.” – Colin Cowherd [06:25]

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3. News Rundown: Wild Bills-Patriots Game & Team Adjustments

[11:19 - 14:26]

• Jason (“J Mac”) recaps Buffalo’s shocking comeback from a 21-0 deficit to beat the Patriots 35-31.
• Bills credited for effective defensive halftime adjustments (“just said, screw it, we’re going to blitz the hell out of [Patriots QB] Drake May”).
• Patriots exposed for league-worst performance in red zone defense.
• Bills praised as best second-half team in the NFL – seen as a dangerous, surging playoff entrant.

Notable Stats:

• “The Patriots are dead last in red zone stoppage. Defensively, you get in the red zone, it’s like touchdown after touchdown. That’s not going to bode well for the playoffs.” – Jason McIntyre [13:10]

• “By some advanced metrics, the Bills are the best second half team in the NFL.” – J Mac [13:22]

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4. Denver Broncos’ Deceptive Strength

[13:44 - 14:08]

• Denver recognized as more complete and deceptively “hole-free” than Houston or Buffalo.
• “Denver does not have a hole.” – Colin Cowherd [13:51]
• Payton’s coaching and "clever" game plans praised for orchestrating comeback wins and maximizing limited roster resources.

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5. Quarterback Health & Maturity: Jackson Dart’s Resilience

[14:26 - 17:05]

• Jackson Dart (college QB) addresses recurring concussion checks and responds to concerns about his playing style and off-field persona.
• Colin admits he underestimated Dart, affirming him as a legitimate franchise quarterback prospect, lauding how he uses his athleticism constructively during early development.

Quotes:

• “There are certain things I will accept. One of them is you’re going to have a hard time reading defenses your first two years in the league. ... I’m okay with young quarterbacks throwing picks. Year three, four you got to bring those down.” – Colin Cowherd [16:00]
• “I think he’s a franchise quarterback. He’s better than I thought. I gotta give it up to him. Damn.” – Colin Cowherd [16:56]

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6. QB Debate: Drafting for Upgrades

[17:05 - 18:05]

• Jason (“J Mac”) jokes about Colin handing out “franchise quarterback tags like Santa hands out Christmas presents.”
• Debate: Whether the Giants should draft top prospect Mendoza even if Dart is available; consensus is that you always upgrade if a transcendent prospect is available.

Quote:

• “It’s called upgrading to a better star. ... Mendoza is a every three or four year prospect—size, arm, grateful, humble, great family.” – Jason McIntyre [17:31 - 17:50]

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7. Heisman Winner: Mendoza’s Star Power

[18:05 - 19:41]

• Mendoza, now at Indiana, wins the Heisman Trophy in convincing fashion after transferring from Cal.
• His unflappable demeanor, high intelligence (second business school), and elite play against Ohio State position him as the leading franchise QB in the next NFL draft.
• Jason and Colin agree that Indiana, with Mendoza, is a national title contender.

Quote:

• “Most great quarterbacks...one of the things I loved about Andrew Luck, little bit of a nerd. I am okay my quarterback not being cool.” – Colin Cowherd [18:56]

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8. Pittsburgh Steelers: Tomlin’s Hot Seat & Defensive Identity

Guest: Mike DeFebo, The Athletic

[25:40 - 33:07]

• Pittsburgh’s relationship with head coach Mike Tomlin dissected; Tomlin’s job security is high due to ownership culture, but approval rating “has never been lower.”
• Tomlin’s contract and the Rooney family’s coaching philosophy mean any split would likely require Tomlin himself walking away, not being fired.
• The Steelers’ supposed strengths – defense and rushing offense – have become weaknesses, with declining production and personnel aging out of peak form.
• Young players and ownership’s faith in Tomlin still hold, but urgency is rising due to playoff drought.
• Tomlin’s reluctance to move on from longtime defensive stalwarts (e.g., T.J. Watt) may be holding the team back as they struggle to transition.

Quotes:

• “There’s a very big difference between his approval rating and his job security. ... Mike Tomlin is signed through the 2027 season.” – Mike DeFebo [26:13]
• “If the Steelers had to do it over again, I think that they would wait out Aaron Rodgers and ultimately sign him.” – Mike DeFebo [27:52]
• “So in a lot of cases, they’ve leaned on Aaron Rodgers and his right arm. He hasn’t been perfect... but considering he’s 42 years old... it’s been as good as they could have expected.” – Mike DeFebo [28:30]

Steelers-Dolphins Preview

• Miami’s dominant rushing attack vs. Pittsburgh’s struggling run defense: “Last time they were in Acrisure Stadium, the Buffalo Bill set a new record for an opponent with 249 rushing yards.” – Mike DeFebo [33:15]

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9. Team Building Trends & Weather Adaptability

[34:32 - 36:55]

• Colin contrasts the philosophies of Green Bay (offensive innovation) and Pittsburgh (defensive loyalty).
• Chicago’s roster, built for cold weather and playoff football, compared favorably against Pittsburgh’s outdated approach.
• Power run games and strong offensive lines will be decisive in the closing weeks.

Quote:

• “There’s never been a warm weather dynasty in football. ... The heart of the NFL is December 15th to early February. Chicago...are built for cold weather. ... Meanwhile, Pittsburgh, 30th in rushing on offense since week 10.” – Colin Cowherd [36:32]

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10. NFC North Outlook & Playoff Projections

[38:08 - 38:38]

• Chicago’s playoff outlook improves as Green Bay reels from injuries.
• Bears in position to secure No. 2 seed and host either a diminished Green Bay or Detroit.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “I’d rather face Green Bay today than Detroit with all that firepower.” – Colin Cowherd [03:42]
• “How do they have a roster this good on both sides?...That is all-time coaching. Sean Payton...guy’s great. First ballot guy.” – Colin Cowherd [06:25]
• “The Patriots are dead last in red zone stoppage. Defensively, you get in the red zone, it’s like touchdown after touchdown. That’s not going to bode well for the playoffs.” – Jason McIntyre [13:10]
• “I think he’s a franchise quarterback. He’s better than I thought. I gotta give it up to him. Damn.” – Colin Cowherd on Jackson Dart [16:56]
• “Most great quarterbacks...one of the things I loved about Andrew Luck, little bit of a nerd. I am okay my quarterback not being cool.” – Colin Cowherd [18:56]
• “There’s a very big difference between [Tomlin's] approval rating and his job security.” – Mike DeFebo [26:13]
• “Last time they were in Acrisure Stadium, the Buffalo Bill set a new record for an opponent with 249 rushing yards.” – Mike DeFebo [33:15]
• “There’s never been a warm weather dynasty in football. ... The heart of the NFL is December 15th to early February.” – Colin Cowherd [36:36]

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Flow & Tone

Colin maintains his trademark blend of assertive analysis mixed with storytelling, sharp opinions, and a touch of dry humor. Jason McIntyre (“J Mac”) interjects quick stats, challenges assumptions, and pokes fun at both storylines and Colin himself, keeping the mood lively and conversational. Guest Mike DeFebo brings measured, on-the-ground reporting to ground the discourse about the Steelers.

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Episode Takeaways

• The playoff picture is fluid, with rosters and injuries causing big shifts in seeding desirability.
• Denver has become an AFC dark horse thanks to Sean Payton’s coaching wizardry.
• Bills, despite flaws, are the AFC’s most dangerous second-half team.
• The Steelers exemplify a franchise trapped between tradition and adaptation, with mounting pressure on Tomlin.
• Discussion of quarterback play pivots between pragmatic player development advice and the lure of transcendent, can’t-miss prospects like Mendoza.
• The NFL postseason will likely be shaped by teams that are built for, and can adapt to, winter weather slugfests.

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For listeners and non-listeners alike, this episode is a comprehensive state-of-the-league check-in with plenty of forward-looking playoff analysis and insightful commentary on coaching, roster construction, and quarterback value.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Jason McIntyre]

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The only question I have is can Green Bay now with Micah Christian Watson, Tucker Kraft out, this is going to be a real test for Matt leflore and Jordan Love. This is a real test. Now can Detroit which by the way for three quarters of that game looked like they had the number of the Rams in la can Detroit now with a better roster than Green Bay due to the craft Watson Michael Parsons injury can Detroit come roaring back? I don't know what Detroit schedule is not in front of me and beat Green Bay. I would rather face Green Bay today. I didn't feel like this a week ago without the injuries. I'd rather face Green Bay today than Detroit with all that firepower. Gibbs the O line armor on St. Brown, Hutchinson off the edge. So Detroit with Green Bay's injuries to me would be the tougher matchup for anybody in the NFC playoff picture. Here's the AFC playoff picture which doesn't feel nearly as good at the top. I like Denver. They have they have clinched a playoff. Bertha New England I still feel they're kind of in a rebuild it too Jacksonville. I know I know I can't that that division. I can't trust them Pittsburgh I mean do anybody like Pittsburgh Chargers I'd love them if they had both their offensive tackles. I think they could win the Super Bowl. Buffalo don't trust their defense. I tell you after Denver Houston at the 7 seed is the one I trust because I know that defense and CJ Stroud with time can beat anybody in the sport including the Rams. The Colts. Fun story. Forget it. Baltimore have to go have to sweep win rest of the games. They feel a bit broken here. Sean Payton on clinching a playoff spot.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's nice to clinch a playoff berth.

[Jason McIntyre]

You know, goal one is try to go win your division. Goal two is try to get the.

[Colin Cowherd]

Best seed and then goal three is, you know, try to win a world championship.

[Jason McIntyre]

And so we still haven't really accomplished 1, 2 or 3.

[Colin Cowherd]

So remember one is when the division.

[Jason McIntyre]

So we're still going for the record to show you the job Sean Payton has done. Russell Wilson is still on Denver's cap sheet. I mean this seems inconceivable. How do they have a roster this good on both sides? How are they the number one seed in the Mahomes burrow? Josh Allen side that is all time coaching? Sean Payton can be a little gruff, little outspoken. Guy's great. First ballot guy. Guy is great. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Hey is Cavino and Rich from Fox Sports Radio. Now, in addition to hearing us live weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, we're excited to announce a brand new YouTube channel for the show. Yup, that's right. You can now watch Covino enriched live on YouTube every day. All you got to do Search COVINO and RICH FSR on YouTube again. Go to YouTube search Kobe, FINFINO, ENRICH FSR. Check us out on YouTube. Subscribe Hit that thumbs up icon and comment away. With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. He Yep, even on weekends it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capital1.com Bank Capital One NA Member FDIC. So you're telling me that the AI.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

What a Matchup.

[Colin Cowherd]

We got y'.

[Jason McIntyre]

All.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is that classic HBCU vibe. Non stop action. The band is rocking and the crowd let's chant. Echo drum beat everybody. Showing that school pride.

[Jason McIntyre]

Game like this.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. It calls for an ice cold Coca Cola. Ah, crisp and refreshing. That's a game changer right there. Yeah, that taste always hits the right note.

[Jason McIntyre]

Just like the band at halftime.

[Colin Cowherd]

And just like that, we're back at it. Passionate fans, school colors everywhere. And an ice cold, cold Coca Cola.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's a winning combo.

[Colin Cowherd]

No matter the sport, no matter the yard. Everybody knows fan work is thirsty work. So grab a Coca Cola and keep that HBCU pride going.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Colin Cowherd]

No, no, no, turn on the news.

[J Mac]

This is the third line news.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, let's.

[J Mac]

Colin, let's start with the game of yesterday. Oh, it was a classic. Bills 35, Patriots 31. I was watching this and it was 21 nothing. Patriots. And remember I mentioned I love the Bills here and I'm like, oh, my gosh, what's going on? And what a comeback. Colin, they made a key adjustment in the second half. You know what they did? They just said, screw it, we're going to blitz the hell out of Drake.

[Jason McIntyre]

May.

[J Mac]

They turned up their blitz percentage. May was a little rattled and they did some interesting stuff. They would drop Bosa from his rushing into coverage and it confused May. I think McDermott with a stroke of genius in the second half. After the game, Stefan Diggs talked about how, listen, this was a needed result for the Patriots.

[Jason McIntyre]

Interesting.

[Colin Cowherd]

Are you playing a team like that?

[Jason McIntyre]

They play from behind.

[Colin Cowherd]

They're used to playing from behind, fighting back and clawing. They've been together for some years and they led this division for a while.

[Jason McIntyre]

So in order to get over that.

[Colin Cowherd]

Hump, you know, play 60 minute football and execute at a high level.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, I think he's right. It's almost like before March Madness. Like, you know, if you're, if you're undefeated, you're like, you know what? Or you're a really great team. It's like, we need some close games. I do feel like New England had a bit of a charmed life, you know, you and I. One of the reasons I picked them as a shocking team is they had the easiest schedule. The Niners and them had an easy schedule. And I think it's helped both teams. Both are good help both teams. I also think they're using backups on the left side of the offensive line. So that blitzing stuff was doubly effective. And, you know, let's give McDermott and Buffalo credit. Go on the road, you win a shootout. Those aren't easy. And I, I just can't wait to see Buffalo in the playoffs because this is the year. It's wide open.

[J Mac]

Yeah. So after it was 21 nothing, the Bills scored touchdowns on five straight drives. Yep, five in a row. And there are some numbers I did not realize. The Patriots are dead last in red zone stoppage. Defensively, you get in the red zone, it's like touchdown after touchdown. That's not going to bode well for the playoffs. Final note, Colin. By some advanced metrics, the Bills Are the best second half team in the NFL. They just steamroll folks. They putter around. Now, I don't know if it's bad game plans for McDermott or Josh Allen just turning it up a notch, but in the second half, they are steamrolling folks. I know that. You know, they don't have any game breakers outside of Allen. I think this is the most dangerous team in the afc. I would put Houston second. Can you ride with that or not?

[Jason McIntyre]

Really?

[J Mac]

You like Bonicks?

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, I think Denver's got a much, much better roster. And the game's going to be in Denver and I get the better head coach. I'm telling you. Sean Payton, you watched that game against Green Bay yesterday. Well, Denver was deceptive and clever. I mean, they. Denver does not have a hole.

[J Mac]

They were down 2314. Like the packers enrolled them to any.

[Jason McIntyre]

Injuries, happened to an excellent team.

[J Mac]

Yeah, I mean, Packers. Oh, the Packers. It gets me so sad. So just hypothetically, I'm curious, where do you stand on this? Texans go to the Patriots in the first round, seven versus two. Who you have favored in that game, that might be like close to a pickup.

[Jason McIntyre]

I'll take the under. And Houston would probably get a point or two. I'd probably take Houston.

[J Mac]

Yeah, that's just a. That's a tough matchup for the young quarterback. All right, let's move on to Jackson. Darth, I think you had the joke earlier this season. The guy's paying rent. He spent so much time in the blue tent. Colin, unbelievable stat. He was in the blue tent again yesterday, the fifth time in 10 games this season, including the preseason. So 50% of his appearances. He's going to the blue tent for concussions after the game. Dart was surprised he had to get checked out.

[Colin Cowherd]

This definitely wasn't the first time that I've been surprised that I've had. Come on. But I was definitely surprised.

[Jason McIntyre]

Just.

[Colin Cowherd]

Didn'T feel like it was that.

[Jason McIntyre]

Big of a hit at all.

[Colin Cowherd]

I mean, you don't just see people getting taken out of the game like that. So I definitely feel like there's a. There's a sensitivity for some reason.

[J Mac]

I mean, listen, I like this guy. I think he's cool, right? He seems like a cool guy. Are you getting any Manziel vibes from him at the podium?

[Jason McIntyre]

No, no, no, no, no.

[J Mac]

Okay.

[Jason McIntyre]

No, he's a much better.

[J Mac]

I mean, he's just. He's swagged out. He's got the Louis Vuitton hat, the thick necklaces. I'm sure you've seen he's dating all these IG baddies. I'm talking like really, really attractive women. And you're like, oh, he's enjoying life as a celebrity.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. I thought Johnny Manziel let his concern about being cool get in the way of his football. I don't think Jackson Dart does.

[J Mac]

I would agree with that.

[Jason McIntyre]

He's cool and loves football. I think Jackson Dart plays for the record. Let me defend Jackson Dart and I remember I didn't think he was a first round quarterback. I'm wrong. I'm wrong. The thing I like about Jackson Dart is young quarterbacks make mistakes. There are certain things I will accept. One of them is you're going to have a hard time reading defenses your first two years the league. It's hard. You're going to throw some picks. I'm okay with young quarterbacks throwing picks. You're three, four, you got to bring those down. The second thing is I like young quarterbacks to use their feet while they're learning defenses. A lot of the times Jackson Dart is saying this is the only way I'm going to move chains on this team. They don't have a great receiving core. So I don't love that he's in a tent more than an REI manager. I don't love that. But I will say he's doing it for the right reasons, which is we're missing our number one guy. We're missing Scatter Boo. I'm trying to move the chain. I defended Lamar on this. I've defended Herbert on this. Your first couple years in the leagues, dude, you got to move the chains by any means possible. Young body heals better than a 30 year old body. I think he's a franchise quarterback. He's better than I thought. I got to give up. I got to give it up to him. Damn.

[J Mac]

You're handing out franchise quarterback tags like Santa hands out Christmas presents. Are you sure? I mean there's a debate in New York Giants world right now if the Giants get the number one pick. Do you take Mendoza?

[Jason McIntyre]

Absolutely. I take Mendoza. Six, five. Yeah. I mean Mendoza is an A plus prospect, but how do you take him.

[J Mac]

If you think Dak Dart is a franchise quarterback?

[Jason McIntyre]

If you ever watch the NBA, it's called upgrading to a better star. I mean I like Jackson Dart. Somebody would absolutely give you either a one or a two or a three and a four for Jackson Dart. Mendoza is a every three or four year prospect size arm, grateful, humble, great family like Mendoza's a whole last year. I mean a lot of people didn't like shadow or only one team moved up for Jackson Dart that that would last year was a very mid year for college quarterback and that dovetails into.

[J Mac]

Our final story which is Mr. Mendoza wins the Heisman trophy Saturday night in a bit of a landslide. Colin it wasn't even close. The guy's had an unbelievable college football story. He was at Cal, he's now at Indiana. He wins the Heisman. They're the number one seed. He rolled over Diego Pavia of Vandy who was not thrilled and put some silly stuff on social media. Here's Mendoza after the victory.

[Colin Cowherd]

To my linemen who protected me every receiver and tight end that bailed me out and made me look good to every running back who fought for more yards and to our defense that gave us that heart swagger and more second chances than we definitely deserved. This trophy might have my name on it but it belongs to all of you. It belongs the first time in Bloomington playing in front of Hoosier Nation is one of the greatest privileges of my life.

[Jason McIntyre]

Every general manager in the league is on the phone now. Anybody want my good quarterback that kid is absolutely I've said this most great quarterbacks. One of the things I loved about Andrew Luck little bit of a nerd. I am okay my quarterback not being cool now by the time you're worth 300 million you know you could be a little cool then but I there I've seen this kid twice against Ohio State and Penn State and those Ohio State's defense and their secondary is the best I've seen in years. You and Indiana's got good players but this is a plus plus prospect everything about him I love you don't see.

[J Mac]

The happy feet in the pocket getting nervous. He see and I know this sounds silly he's very smart like incredibly he's on his second business school. That's the kind of guy who he's not nervous. Nothing rattles him. You see him in the pocket. I don't know. I'm very curious to see what he does in the playoff. I don't see why they can't win the national championship. Kyle I know that defensive loss they.

[Jason McIntyre]

Have one of the players they can I mean one of the things that hurts them they lost a great edge to injury and they may face Ohio State again and Ohio State won't be coming off a Michigan win. So I would take Ohio State in a rematch but I somebody asked me this weekend who do you like in the natty And I said all I know is I think Ohio State and Indiana are the two best teams I've seen and George is third after that. You guys can argue and by a.

[J Mac]

Mile, Indiana has the best quarterback of those three. Sorry, no disrespect to stock gunner or saying, but my nose is way better than those guys.

[Jason McIntyre]

Incredibly easy guy to root for.

[J Mac]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

God, what a story. The Vanderbilt guy. You can have J. Mac with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by the Herd line. You don't have the judgment to be respectful after losing the Heisman. What do I think I'm getting in the fourth quarter of an NFL game that's tied and you have the ball like you're people tell you what they are and who they are. And that was not good. He came back and apologized. Not good. We're going to Pittsburgh. Steelers tonight hosting Miami. What are we to make of Mike Tomlin's future? What are we to make of the Steelers who look like the weakest division leading team? We are live. It's the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd. Weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capital1 member FDIC.

[Colin Cowherd]

So let me get this straight. Your company has data here, there and.

[Jason McIntyre]

Everywhere, but your AI can't use the.

[Colin Cowherd]

Data because it's here, there and everywhere? Seems like something's missing. Every business has unique data. IBM helps your AI access your data wherever it lives. To change how you do business. Let's create Smile to business IBM. What a matchup we got, y'.

[Jason McIntyre]

All.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is that classic HBCU vibe. Non stop action. The band is rocking and the crowd lit. Chance echo drum beat. Everybody showing that school pride. Game like this, yeah, it calls for an ice cold Coca Cola. Ah, crisp and refreshing. That's a game changer right there. Yeah, that taste always hits the right note. Just like the band at halftime. And just like that, we're back at it. Passionate fans, school colors everywhere. And in ice cold Coca Cola.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's a winning combo.

[Colin Cowherd]

No matter the sport, no matter the yard. Everybody knows fan work is thirsty work. So grab a Coca Cola and keep that HBCU pride going.

[Jason McIntyre]

Hi, it's Colin. I've been around long enough to know quality when I see it. Or in this case, when I taste it. Tito's handmade vodka. Good stuff. No flash, no gimmicks. Smooth, clean tasting, made the right way. Okay. I like things that are built to last. A great team, a well run organization. Same goes for my vodka, Tito's. Made in Austin, Texas. Real care, attention to detail, distinct, crisp taste. I was just telling my wife the other day, Tito's is the one vodka it has a completely distinct taste. Been my go to for years, so I like to keep it simple. Tito's soda, one lime, lot of ice, refreshing, easy. Summer, winter, spring. Totally versatile. Always works. Listen, baseball season's here. Your team's going to play 162 games. A perfect time to kick back with some Tito's. It's what I pour. You should too. Distilled and bottled by 50 Generation Inc. Austin, Texas. 40% alcohol by volume. Savor responsibly. Innovation is what gets your business to the big leagues. And Wasabi is designed to give every business a shot at competition. Break free from skyrocketing storage costs, unpredictable egress fees from old and top heavy legacy providers. You know, the big guys. Wasabi is the world's hottest cloud storage company and the go to provider for professional and collegiate sports teams and leagues around the world. And here's why. Innovation from Wasabi's AI enabled intelligent media storage, Wasabi Air, to the industry's only cloud storage service. With triple protection against cybercriminals, data deletion and ransomware. Wasabi has taken the lead in big league data storage. Remember, Wasabi is up to 80% less than the other guys and doesn't charge a cent for businesses to access their own data. Wasabi is another championship story. Check them out [e-mail], wasabi Hot Cloud Storage, proud partner of the Voluum Podcast network. Well, Mike DeFebo covers the Pittsburgh Steelers at the Athletic, formerly at the Pittsburgh Post Gazette. And I love when we bring people on who have their feet on the ground covering the team and let's bring him on Live. Mike DeFebo so, you know, there's a lot of times I'll hear stuff and it's like, well, I mean it's, it's conjecture, conjecture. It's, it's, it's Internet. It's not terribly accurate. Mike Tomlin My question's always been if you're going to have the most expensive defense, then it has to be good. And can you solve the running game once in the next seven years? How is, how is he viewing it? And they just don't fire coaches. So I would guess Mike, his job is 100% safe. Or is that overstating it?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I mean, with Mike Tomlin, the conversation is there's a very big difference between his approval rating and his job security. His approval rating right now in Pittsburgh has never been lower. You look at what happened two weeks ago at acresher Stadium. I believe that fans came to the stadium and to that game to boo Mike Tomlin and to chant fire Tomlin. That's where this fan base is at. After not winning a playoff game since January of 2027. If they don't win a playoff game this year, it'll be nine consecutive years without a playoff win. But like I mentioned, there's a big difference between approval rating and job security. Mike Tomlin is signed through the 2027 season. Now there's an option year with all of that. So 2026 could be his last year. But the Steelers do not fire coaches, especially a guy like Mike Tomlin, who's one of the highest paid coaches in all of professional sports with a reported salary of $16 million per year. So going to be any kind of breakup. I strongly believe that Mike Tomlin himself is going to be the one that has a very significant say in this because he would either have to waive a no trade clause or decide after hearing fire Tomlin chance and listening to criticism from the media. Maybe he'll decide at some point that he doesn't want to continue to coach in a city that doesn't appreciate him any longer. But given the way the Steelers do business and the way the Rooney family does business, I wouldn't expect them to pay a coach like Mike Tomlin not.

[Jason McIntyre]

To coach Aaron Rodgers. How is it viewed? It feels pretty successful. He and the DK Metcalf pairing. Meh. But Aaron feels like, all things considered, no run game o line remains. Okay. How's it viewed in Pittsburgh?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I would agree with you. I think that if the Steelers had to do it over again, I think that they would wait out Aaron Rodgers and ultimately sign him. I mean, when he was signed, the formula was supposed to be be that people said, well, Aaron Rodgers might not be what he once was, but he won't need to be because he'll be supported by the NFL's highest paid defense and an offense that has a coordinated Arthur Smith who wants to run the football and made repeated investments into their offensive line, and none of those things have been true. This defense that was billed as the highest paid defense, you know, if you pay the most, you should get the best. And they have been average at best. I mean, they've allowed 30 points or more five times this season and at one point they were on pace to be the highest scoring defense in the Mike Tomlin era. So not good results there and then running the ball has just been a completely inconsistent endeavor. So in a lot of cases they've leaned on Aaron Rodgers and his right arm. He hasn't been perfect, it's been an up and down season. But considering he's 42 years old and playing behind, you know, an offense with a lot of question marks, I think that he's been about as good as they could have expected.

[Jason McIntyre]

Listen, it feels like Tomlin is very reluctant to part with a TJ Watt. Hayward. It's just those are his guys. Like he likes the older player, TJ Watts not going to play tonight. What is his future in Pittsburgh?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, you know, TJ just signed that big contract and I think that internally there is certainly a feeling that they would like him to retire a Steeler. They often talk about the one helmet guys, guys who were drafted by the Steelers, play their whole careers there and ultimately go into the hall of Fame as a Pittsburgh Steeler. So I think that that's the vision for T.J. watt. But, but right now the concern is that he could end up having a career where he has all kinds of incredible individual achievements but does nothing in the playoffs. You know, tonight the Steelers are going to be hosting Minka Fitzpatrick. During his six seasons, he did incredible things here in Pittsburgh. Collectively or cumulatively over those six years. The Steelers had one of the best defenses in the league over that span, but they did nothing in the playoffs. And that's really the concern with a TJ Watt who's now 31 years old. And he is, I hate to say it, he's had a bit of a down year and you could wonder if he's showing some small signs of regression. I mean, he is. You're comparing him to what he wants, what he his peak. And his peak is one of the most dominant players over the last decade. But you look at his sack totals, you look at his next gen stats in terms of how he's getting off the line of scrimmage, and he doesn't look like he's quite the same dominant player as he was in his mid-20s. And time is running out for him. And for a guy like Cam Hayward, who has just one more year left on his contract.

[Jason McIntyre]

I saw a story about Tomlin about two weeks ago and somebody said Tomlin's people leaked it to let everybody know know he may be available. I, that doesn't feel like Tomlin to me but I, I understand these powerful agents. Where are the Rooneys in Tomlin? I know we addressed it earlier but I mean the Rooneys are pretty conservative. Mike's an old school guy. I've heard there there's some, not discomfort but disappointment. I mean, you don't win a playoff game for eight years. That is all that is a stretch. Are the Rooneys and the Tomlins forever defending privately each other or are there fissures?

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, I think that they're pretty united and I think that Art Rooney really has respect for Mike Tomlin and appreciates what Mike Tomlin has done. So after each season Art Rooney meets with a small group of reporters and you know, most recently there's been a lot of heat and a lot of questions about Mike Tomlin's job status and some of the things that are Rooney talks about, he says, like, look, Mike Tomlin wouldn't have won all these games if he's not a good coach. And to that point Mike Tomlin is three wins away from matching Chuck Knowles regular season mark and Tomlin will have done so in significantly fewer games. Okay. Also, Art Rooney always points out that Mike Tomlin gets players to buy in and play till the end of seasons and that's important to Art, and that certainly is true. Just last week in the locker room I was talking to Calvin Austin, one of their young wide receivers and he said the whole world can be saying fire Tomlin, but in this locker room we still believe in Mike Tomlin. And I think that that's an important thing here for this team and for Art Rooney because Art Rooney takes the pulse of the locker room. And I think that if he feels like Mike Tomlin still has the heartbeat of that locker room, if guys are still fighting to play for him, then I think that our Rooney is going to keep Mike Tomlin for the future. And so, you know, as much as I think there is a bit of impatience on the part of our Rooney and they've been doing things in an uncharacteristic Steelers way. You look at their aggressive offseason to try to shake things up, I still think he's willing to give Mike Tomlin the benefit of the doubt. Especially when you consider their history with coaches and how long of leashes they've Given other coaches in the past.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, I think tonight Miami's running the ball. I think tonight's actually interesting. You think of Miami cold weather and you roll your eyes. What do you expect tonight?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I think that that's really going to be the key to the game. Can the Steelers stop the run, which has been a challenge for them this year? You know, last time they were in Acreshire Stadium, the Buffalo Bill set a new record for an opponent with 249 rushing yards. Okay, so now they turn around a couple weeks later and what would be different? Okay. And so the real the thing to keep your eye on would be Derek Harmon. He's the rookie first round pick at defensive tackle. And when he's been in the game, they've been decent at stopping the run. They've allowed about 94 rushing yards per game. When he's not played in games, they've allowed 100 yards more per game. And so you look at Miami Dolphins, they're averaging 192 rushing yards per game since Week 10. Since Week 10, the Steelers have allowed the most rushing yards in the league. So that's really where it starts and ends. It's going to be cold. Both teams are going to be running the ball. It's going to be kind of probably an ugly type of game. And really it all comes down to can the Steelers win the line of scrimmage on defense.

[Jason McIntyre]

Mike DeFebo, good stuff. The athletic Steelers beat writer, formerly Pittsburgh Post Gazette. Enjoy yourself tonight. Dress warmly and we'll see you. I'll bring you back on soon. Thanks, bud.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, that sounds great. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

[Jason McIntyre]

You bet. He does a great job. It's interesting game tonight. The Dolphins current strength is the Steelers weakness. And you know, it's funny, like Green Bay is a small market, but they have been leaning offense forever. Pittsburgh's a small market. They are just loyal to defense and like who's had more postseason success, who's had more success at quarterback? So I mean there are certain times in the culture of sports, I remember the Lakers for a while were a little apprehensive a little bit on the three point shot and it's like no guys, it's here. Those European guys come over. Even the bigs, they can shoot it. Like you got to embrace certain things in baseball. There are certain analytics. Similarly, Steelers feel a little outdated. Not quite current to the marketplace, but they've got a lot of stability which the New York football teams do not have. The other story I Mean, I think over the weekend I wrapped a bow around the weekend. It's that two teams, Denver and Chicago, with really good young quarterbacks, rookie deal, allowing their franchises to stack them. Chicago's roster is really good. Denver's probably a little better. I think Bo Nicks solidified his rep yesterday and I think Caleb Williams, it's hard to be a doubter with his horsepower. Durability doesn't throw picks. I mean, he was on full display yesterday. Here's Albert Brer on the growth of the former USC Trojan. They didn't teach him how to play quarterback.

[Colin Cowherd]

Like that's really what it was, you know, and like they felt like we.

[Jason McIntyre]

Got to figure out like how much we can throw onto this kid, how much this kid can handle because they felt like he was smart and he had the aptitude to do it. But they got a player who they felt like was really raw. Ben didn't really care if it didn't look good in the summer.

[Colin Cowherd]

It was.

[Jason McIntyre]

We're going to overload him with information now and then we'll scale it back.

[Colin Cowherd]

As we build the offense and we'll lean into what he's good at and.

[Jason McIntyre]

Then we'll build him back up from there. Yeah, it's, I mean, everything, I really believe this. There's never been a warm weather dynasty in football. Marino, Shula, should have been. It wasn't. And a big part of it is. The heart of the NFL is December 15th to early February. Chicago. Not just because they play in Chicago. They are built for cold weather. They are a power run team with a quarterback who doesn't have to throw deep can strong arm that could handle the wind but will also just take off. So they've got a really good O line. They love to run the football. They've got a power thrower and a power runner at quarterback. They're good on third down. They win the takeaway battle, the turnover battle. Meanwhile, Pittsburgh, 30th in rushing on offense since week 10. So Chicago in crappy weather. Guys, it's windy, it's off the lake. We're running the football. Pittsburgh can't. Pittsburgh's not built to win going forward. They're just not. You got an old quarterback that mostly, if he's not feeling it in the pocket, you're done. And they can't run. Chicago's the opposite. If Caleb's like struggling, it's windy. I'm going to keep the ball myself. Great O line and they can run. So it's interesting. I, I watch Chicago built for the postseason. I watch Pittsburgh and I'm like, not at all. So we'll see. All I know is this those playoff matchups, they're getting close. J Mac well, wait, hold on.

[J Mac]

This week Bears host the Packers Things broke amazingly for Chicago this past weekend. That Green Bay situation's bleak.

[Jason McIntyre]

What's the line?

[J Mac]

I think the Bears get them. I haven't seen a line yet, but I'll just say this. The Bears probably get the 2 seed and then would host the 7, which would be likely Green Bay or Detroit. Detroit's only got a 40% chance, so it'd be round three. Who killed the Bears in the last meeting? Christian Watson. He doesn't look like he's going to be back this week. I think that your Bears looking, I mean they're sitting pretty right now.

[Jason McIntyre]

Colin First Things first is around the corner. Tough weekend For Nick Wright PCs powered by Snapdragon X Elite processors are made to go the distance with blazing fast performance, next level efficiency and multi day battery life. Snapdragon processors are built to tackle it all, from highlight reel editing to intense player research. So you can be at the top of your game wherever the day takes you. Learn [e-mail] laptops Snapdragon the heart of your PC. Battery life varies significantly based on device settings, usage and other factors. Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosure Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures People Talk A lot about athletes performance, but what about Your own questhealth.com can help you understand where your health stands. With Quest, you can buy your own lab tests online, no doctor visit required. Quest has a huge selection of lab tests for everything from fitness to heart health and more. Just buy a test online and visit a nearby Quest location for sample collection. You'll get fast results online and for a limited time, you can save on select lab [e-mail], use the code HERD10 at checkout. Terms apply. Wasabi is purpose built to free your business from skyrocketing storage costs and fees from the big guys. Wasabi is the go to provider for professional and collegiate sports teams around the world. Check out Wasabi's AI enabled intelligent media storage Wasabi Air to the industry's only cloud storage service with triple protection against cybercriminals. Wasabi driving innovation in data storage for up to 80% less than the other guys. Try for free at wasabi.com, wasabi Hot Cloud Storage proud partner of the Volume Podcast Network hi there Colin Coward. You don't need to spend a thousand bucks to drink the best bourbon in the world. The folks over at Green river are proving that Green River's weeded bourbon was just named best bourbon in the world at the prestigious 2025 New York World Spirit Competition. They beat out bottles 10 times the price. It's 90 proof, full of peppery spice, s' mores and honey grain. The best part? Only 36 bucks. That's it. Head over to greenriverwhiskey.com learn more a product of Green River Distilling Co. Owensboro, Kentucky. Please drink responsibly.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an I heart podcast.

[Jason McIntyre]

Guaranteed human.