THE HERD - Hour 3 - Tony Grossi Details Shedeur Sanders Confrontation, Phil Steele Previews College Football

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Hour 3 featuring Phil Steele and Tony Grossi

Release Date: August 13, 2025
Hosts: Colin Cowherd (Host), Phil Steele (College Football Analyst), Tony Grossi (Cleveland Browns Journalist)
Platform: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume

---

1. Introduction to the College Football Season

[00:00 – 02:02]
The episode opens with brief introductions and transitions from various promotional segments to the main content featuring host Colin Cowherd and guest Phil Steele. The focus quickly shifts to the upcoming college football season, with Colin setting the stage for an in-depth analysis of top teams and key players.

---

2. Team Predictions and Analysis

a. Texas Longhorns

[02:02 – 03:27]
Colin Cowherd initiates the discussion by highlighting Phil Steele's expertise in predicting college football outcomes, praising his "20 plus years at predicting this stuff." The conversation centers on the Texas Longhorns, examining their offensive line challenges and the impact of their schedule:

Colin Cowherd [02:17]: "Do you see a hole in that football operation?"

Phil Steele [03:27]: "The key for Texas is going to be the development of the offensive line... I love their defense though. I rated the best defense in the country led by Anthony Hill, a linebacker."

b. Penn State Nittany Lions

[03:27 – 05:13]
The dialogue shifts to Penn State, with Phil lauding their offensive line and running back core:

Phil Steele [04:27]: "They've got an outstanding defense. Give me a top notch offensive line, a top notch defense and then also the quarterback and I'll take that team any day of the week."

Colin expresses confidence in Penn State’s prospects, emphasizing their recruitment strength and the importance of their quarterback's performance.

c. Ohio State Buckeyes

[04:49 – 05:55]
Discussion moves to Ohio State, addressing concerns about their quarterback situation amid losing 16 starters:

Colin Cowherd [04:49]: "We know they're a recruiting factory, but how tough is it to make a decision when we really have nothing to work with at the most important position in the sport, which is obviously quarterback."

Phil acknowledges Ohio State's talent but raises concerns about experience:

Phil Steele [05:55]: "They're going to lean on the offensive line, which I rate number one in the country, and... I've got the Irish favorite in all 12 games this year."

d. USC Trojans

[06:31 – 08:19]
The conversation shifts to USC, evaluating their talent and potential improvements:

Phil Steele [07:41]: "I might say, if they get the play out of their quarterback this year. In my eva, then I think that USC could make some noise."

Colin expresses skepticism about USC’s overall talent but remains hopeful about their defense and coaching.

e. Notre Dame Fighting Irish

[08:19 – 09:22]
Focus turns to Notre Dame, highlighting their stable roster and strong defensive units:

Phil Steele [08:50]: "They've got a new quarterback this year in C.J. Carr, but he's surrounded by talent. I love the life Love Price combo at running back. It's my number two running back core in the country."

Colin is impressed by Notre Dame's consistency and potential as national title contenders.

f. Oklahoma Sooners

[09:22 – 11:53]
Phil identifies Oklahoma as a dark horse team with significant improvements from the previous season:

Phil Steele [10:58]: "They have the Texas game in a neutral site. Watch out for Oklahoma. They could be that fourth SEC team to make the playoffs."

Colin and Phil discuss Oklahoma’s revamped offensive line and strong defense as key factors for their success.

---

3. Key Player Highlights

a. Arch Manning (Clemson Tigers)

[05:13 – 07:08]
Arch Manning is spotlighted as a top quarterback prospect, with Phil predicting his Heisman win:

Phil Steele [06:31]: "I picked him to win the Heisman... He's operating behind my number two rated offensive line."

Arch’s improved performance and support from his team are emphasized as critical to his success.

b. Cade Klubnick (USC Trojans)

[06:31 – 07:41]
Cade Klubnick is discussed as potentially the best quarterback in the sport:

Phil Steele [07:08]: "He leads the nation in passing, leads a 12 and old team and I believe he's going to take home the Heisman this year."

Colin underscores Klubnick’s athleticism and NFL prospects.

---

4. Quarterback Recruitment and Transfer Impact

[08:50 – 10:46]
The hosts delve into the impact of transfer rules and the value of homegrown players versus transfers. Phil expresses concerns about teams relying heavily on transfers:

Phil Steele [10:46]: "The majority of the team is homegrown freshmen that turned into seniors... I'm concerned about the amount of transfers."

The discussion highlights benefits of teams with strong recruitment systems like Clemson, Notre Dame, and Ohio State.

---

5. Controversial Stories and Player Incidents

a. Oklahoma Quarterback Venmo Incident

[12:12 – 13:52]
Colin addresses a viral story about Oklahoma’s quarterback涉嫌在Venmo交易历史记录中的$500转账，用于USC UCLA比赛，尽管他解释这是与朋友的玩笑：

Colin Cowherd [13:18]: "It's clearly a joke. The idea that the NCAA should investigate. This is laughable."

Both Colin and Phil dismiss the incident as harmless and question the appropriateness of investigating such matters.

---

6. NFL Team Valuations and Ownership Changes

a. NFL Valuations by Sportico

[22:34 – 25:21]
Colin and Phil discuss the latest NFL team valuations, highlighting the Dallas Cowboys as the most valuable:

Phil Steele [23:19]: "Dallas Cowboys remain 12.2. Sorry, $12.8 billion according to Sportico."

They debate the accuracy of these valuations, comparing them to the immense personal wealth of owners like Jeff Bezos and the potential for high-net-worth individuals to invest in NFL teams.

b. Portland Trailblazers Ownership

[25:15 – 25:43]
A brief mention is made of the Portland Trailblazers being sold for $4 billion, though details remain sparse.

---

7. Cleveland Browns Deep Dive with Tony Grossi

a. Ownership and Team Performance

[32:10 – 35:09]
Colin introduces Tony Grossi to discuss the Cleveland Browns, focusing on owner Jimmy Haslam’s tenure:

Tony Grossi [33:02]: "The record has been awful... but he still has that reputation. But I think he's maturing."

Grossi acknowledges the team's challenges but notes signs of growth under current management.

b. Quarterback Situation: Shador Sanders and Dylan Gabriel

[35:09 – 38:42]
The conversation explores the Browns' quarterback depth chart and the prospects for Shador Sanders and Dylan Gabriel:

Buzz Aldrin [36:14]: "They want to see Gabriel on the field before they make any adjustment to the depth chart."

Grossi discusses the strategic decisions behind maintaining multiple quarterbacks and the potential impact on the team's performance.

c. Team Prospects and Leadership

[38:42 – 41:35]
Tony Grossi provides insights into the Browns' leadership and future prospects, emphasizing the importance of trust in the coaching staff:

Buzz Aldrin [37:58]: "They have to find the guy this year, we'll keep looking for him."

He expresses cautious optimism about the team's direction and the roles of key figures like Stefanski and Berry.

---

8. NFL Player Analysis and Team Strategies

a. Justin Herbert and Chargers’ Quarterback Concerns

[19:15 – 21:28]
Colin and Phil discuss Justin Herbert's performance with the Los Angeles Chargers, addressing criticisms of his playing style:

Colin Cowherd [19:28]: "He's processing great. The problem is, of course, he just doesn't have enough around him."

They evaluate Herbert's strengths and the surrounding team's impact on his effectiveness.

b. Detroit Lions' Coaching and Player Dynamics

[21:28 – 24:43]
The focus shifts to the Detroit Lions, analyzing the impact of losing coordinators and the role of quarterback J.J. McCarthy:

Colin Cowherd [22:34]: "They're like a four win team. It's not an easy schedule."

They discuss the challenges and potential of the Lions within their division.

---

9. Closing Remarks and Upcoming Segments

[42:14 – 44:40]
The episode wraps up with closing thoughts on team dynamics and a brief mention of upcoming guests and topics, including the anticipated appearance of Tony Grossi to discuss further insights into the Cleveland Browns.

---

Notable Quotes

• Phil Steele [03:27]: "I rated the best defense in the country led by Anthony Hill."
• Colin Cowherd [04:49]: "How tough is it to make a decision when we really have nothing to work with at the most important position... quarterback."
• Phil Steele [07:08]: "Cade Klubnick leads the nation in passing... I believe he's going to take home the Heisman this year."
• Colin Cowherd [13:18]: "The idea that the NCAA should investigate. This is laughable."
• Phil Steele [10:46]: "I think teams like Clemson, Notre Dame, even Ohio State last year had some transfers, but the majority are homegrown."
• Tony Grossi [33:02]: "He still has that reputation. But I think he's maturing."
• Buzz Aldrin [37:58]: "They have to find the guy this year, we'll keep looking for him."

---

Conclusion

In this episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, the discussion traverses the landscape of the upcoming college football season, providing in-depth analysis of key teams and players with insights from Phil Steele. The conversation seamlessly transitions to the NFL, particularly focusing on the Cleveland Browns with expert commentary from Tony Grossi. Critical issues such as quarterback recruitment, team dynamics, and ownership impact are thoroughly examined, offering listeners a comprehensive overview of the sports landscape for the 2025 season.

Transcript

[Angela Rye]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[American Public University]

American public University where service members like you can access high quality, affordable education built for your lifestyle. With online programs that fit around deployments, training and unpredictable schedules, APU makes it possible to earn your degree no matter where duty takes you. Their preferred military rate keeps tuition at just $250 per credit hour for undergraduate and master's tuition and and with 24. 7 mental health support plus career coaching and other services, APU is committed to your success during and after your service. Learn more at APU APUS Edumilitary. That's apu Apus Edu Military who cares.

[John Lithgow]

About truth when the lies More Entertaining welcome home.

[Angela Rye]

I'm Angela Rye, co host of the Native Lampod with Andrew Gillum and Tiffany Cross, and we want y' all to survive and thrive in this political moment.

[Tiffany Cross]

We're having the same debates that American households are having all over the country.

[Angela Rye]

I am terrified that in our rest we're going to miss the moment.

[Andrew Gillum]

You want me to stop resting? What specifically are you asking me to do? Stay informed and take action.

[Tiffany Cross]

Listen to Native Land pod on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jake Hofer]

I'm Jake Hofer and this is back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode I'll be asking eight whitetail hunting pros a focused, thought provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access?

[John Lithgow]

Should you? That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand.

[Jake Hofer]

Listen to Back 40 on iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[John Lithgow]

Hello, I'm John Lithgow.

[Phil Steele]

We choose to go to the moon.

[John Lithgow]

I want to tell you about my new fiction podcast.

[Buzz Aldrin]

That's one small step for About Buzz.

[John Lithgow]

Aldrin, one of the true pioneers of space. You're a great pilot, Buzz. That's the story you think you know. This is the story you don't. Buzz starring me, John Lithgow on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to the Heard Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio at noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio Texas. Ohio State will kick off the big big game to start the college football season. Phil Steele and his magazine have been more accurate than anybody. 20 plus years at predicting this stuff. Listen, we know Texas, Phil's gonna be good. We know Clemson, Ohio State. I have Penn State, Texas and the Natty. The question though is Arch Manning does not have a lot of play and they're replacing most of their old line. Now I would argue it's Texas Sharks, a great recruiter. They'll be fine in the O line. But do you look at Texas? This is what you study. Do you look at them? Do you see a hole in that, in that football operation?

[Phil Steele]

Yeah, I think the key for Texas is going to be the development of the offensive line. Losing four starters like they do this year. Also look at that schedule. I mean, playing Ohio State on the road, Florida on the road, Georgia on the road and Oklahoma in Texas. Those are four pretty tough road games. They may be like Ohio State last year where they lose a game or two during the season, but once they get to the playoffs, they're going to be tough. I love their defense though. Colin. I rated the best defense in the country led by Anthony Hill, a linebacker.

[John Lithgow]

So the team I think can win it. Third straight Big Ten team is Penn State. So I watched Drew Aller fill a couple of years ago. I thought he was inaccurate, I thought he was not refined. And I watched him last year and I'm like, boy, he's made a big leap. Penn State's O line is not a problem. You like Penn State when I. If you've not seen Penn State play, we know Aller, we know James Franklin can recruit. What will they lean on the Nittany Lions this year to win close games? Because their schedule tells you they should be in a few of those.

[Phil Steele]

Yeah, they're going to lean on the offensive line, which I rate number one in the country, and. And the running back core, which I rate number one in the country. They've also upgraded a wide receiver, bringing in three big transfers. Defensively, they are loaded, talent wise, so they've got an outstanding defense. Give me a top notch offensive line, a top notch defense and then also the quarterback and I'll take that team any day of the week.

[John Lithgow]

So Ohio State, I have my reservations because you lose 16 starters, you have the two best players to me, Caleb Downs and Jeremiah Smith. But I don't know what Julian saying is, how do you make a prediction? We know they're a recruiting factory, but how tough is it to make a decision when you we really have nothing to work with at the most important position in the sport, which is obviously quarterback.

[Phil Steele]

Yeah. And a lot of times you have to look at the surrounding cast and I think when you look at Ohio State, they've got that surrounding cast. Jeremy Smith's going to make a lot of people look good at wide receiver. They've got talent at running back, offensive line, naturally. There's no questioning the talent of Ohio State. The question is experience. Now believe it or not, you look at their schedule Colin, they could be favored in all 12 games this year. They're already favored over Texas in the opener, but I think that inexperience may bite them a little bit in a game or two. And, and let's keep in mind last year's NFL laden team with all those seniors lost two games in a regular season. They didn't even win the Big Ten, they didn't even beat Michigan for a fourth straight year. So I think Ohio State might slip up a game or two this year but there's no doubting the talent they have compiled.

[John Lithgow]

So we all talk about Arch Manning, but last night I had an extra hour and I just went deep diving on Cade Klubnick and I went back to his Austin high school, Westlake in Austin. The kid is a real athlete. You know Arch is going to get the love, nuss Meyer, Drew Aller and I looked at this kid and I'm like are we are because the ACC doesn't get the love. Clemson doesn't use the transfer portal much. I think they have three guys they went this year which is a surplus for them. Is it possible that Cade Klubnick, he is the best quarterback in the sport this year?

[Phil Steele]

Yeah, I picked him to win the Heisman, Colin, and I'll tell you why. You go back two years ago he had 19 touchdowns and just nine interceptions and people are wondering about him. But coming into that season in 23 he lost his top three receivers due to injury. Well, last year he got those injured receivers back. They added in a couple of top notch frosh and all of a sudden 36 touchdowns, just six interceptions. He's operating behind my number two rated offensive line. He's got my number two set of receivers to throw to and when I look at Clemson schedule, I've got him winning all 12 games. So I think Clubnick leads the nation in passing, leads a 12 and old team and I believe he's going to take home the Heisman this year.

[John Lithgow]

Yeah, ran a 4, 6, 5 so the kid can really move. Which NFL teams love as well. So my friends out west are like, what do you think of usc? And I keep saying, outside of Malik Lemon a receiver and Kamari Ramsey a safety, I'm like, I don't think they have good enough players to win 10 or 11 games. You look at the USC schedule now, they have a very good 2026 recruiting class, but that's not on campus yet. I just don't think they have enough difference makers outside a receiver and a great safety. What say you on their overall talent?

[Phil Steele]

The overall talent I question a little bit. I like this USC team. And you go back to last year, you look at their losses. The Michigan game where they gave up that big run to Mullins and then a fourth and goal conversion. The Maryland game, they're kicking a field goal that go up by nine and it gets blocked return midfield, give a play, touchdown. They had five close losses. Could even have been 11, 0 team at one point last season. Danton Lynn, I love his defense coordinator. I think he's going to get the most out of this defense. Might be one of Riley's best. As long as they get the play out of their quarterback this year. In my eva, then I think that USC could make some noise. I thought they were a much better team than the record last year, so.

[John Lithgow]

I wondered how Notre Dame would do in the nil. There's a certain standard. They don't use it much, but Notre Dame has an advantage that the guys they bring into their program generally don't leave. If you decide on Notre Dame, it's more than football.

[American Public University]

It's.

[John Lithgow]

There's probably an academic reality that it's hard to get in and if you choose it, you're staying. I think Marcus Freeman has done a really good job. Are they good enough at quarterback? I mean, what do you see going forward?

[Phil Steele]

Yeah, I think when you look at Notre Dame, look at that title game last year, they were down their top defensive lineman, their top offensive lineman, running back. Love was not 100% or else, who knows, Maybe they would have given Ohio State an even better game than they gave them. They've got a new quarterback this year in C.J. carr, but he's surrounded by talent. I love the life Love Price combo at running back. It's my number two running back core in the country. Number three offensive line. I like the additions they got at receiver. And defensively, each unit's rated in my top five and they're solid on special teams. I've got the Irish favorite in all 12 games this year.

[John Lithgow]

Wow.

[Phil Steele]

Tough opener at Miami of Florida. Cristobal's got a really good Miami team, but I think Notre Dame's a legitimate national title contender. Marcus Freeman's doing a tremendous job.

[John Lithgow]

He just got great energy, totally relatable. So Belichick's bringing on 40 new transfers. What is your takeaway? Because it's a science for you. I've never met anybody quite like you. What do you make? I'm kind of one of those. I like players out of high school. I know the odometer. I feel if Georgia lets a guy go, there's a reason for it. What is your take? Five years in the Nil. Do you like it? Are you cynical on it? What do you make? Because Belichick is going to rely on it.

[Phil Steele]

You know, I did a blog on philsteel.com about homegrown players. Colin, and it's. I think teams like a Clemson, like a Notre Dame, even Ohio State last year, while they had some transfers, the majority of the team is homegrown freshmen that turned into seniors. And I think those teams are going to have the most success. Even army and Navy last year had great success, more than anybody would have thought. And I think it's because they're homegrown. So I'm concerned about the amount of transfers, but Bill Belichick and. And then I think North Carolina got a gift in the schedule. There are very few games where you would put North Carolina a definite underdog. And I think if the players come in and buy in, which they should under Bill Belichick, I think North Carolina can have a sneaky good year this year. But I'm concerned about any team that has 40 transfers like they have.

[John Lithgow]

Okay, give me one team. I'm going to pick Illinois. Give me one team under the radar. If I said Phil, they ended up 10 and 1 or 10 and 2. What is your dark horse team in college football?

[Phil Steele]

Yeah, I like your Illinois pick. I think a lot of people are picking and so I'm going to go away from that. I'm going to say Oklahoma, a team that was 6 and 7 last year. You take a look at Oklahoma last year they had zero returning starters on the offensive line. They were down their top five receivers at one point due to injury. Well, this year they've got a veteran offensive line, a veteran receiving corps. They get their injured players back, much like Cade Klubnick at Clemson did two years ago. They've added in Jade Knott, who was the best running back in the Pac12. They add in John Matiera, quarterback. They add in Washington State's offense coordinator and Ben Arbuckle. Nothing was wrong with that defense. Last year they held opponents 87 yards per game below their average number six in the country. The defense is outstanding. Now they have an offense to go with it. Last year they had three SEC home games. This year they only have three SEC road games. They have the Texas game in a neutral site. Watch out for Oklahoma. They could be that fourth SEC team to make the playoffs.

[John Lithgow]

Okay, you can hear his knowledge. Go to phil steele.com. when I watch college football on a Saturday, one thing I always have, and it's not a draft beer, it's Phil Steele's magazine in my lap as I am following the sport. Phil Steele dot com. Is that the best place they can go to get your mag?

[Phil Steele]

Yeah. Barnes and Noble books a million. The only two brick and mortar stores are Phil Steele dot com.

[John Lithgow]

Awesome. Get me all fired up. Thank you, Phil.

[Phil Steele]

Hey, always great talking to you, Colin.

[John Lithgow]

All right, Oklahoma. Hey, what do you make of that Oklahoma story and the quarterback and the Venmo thing? You know, I know every. Can I. Let me just say this. Let me just say this, is that I Venmo once in a while and I got kids that Venmo and they make jokes. It's like a running gag, right? So everybody's crushing this Oklahoma quarterback because he put on his Venmo $500 USC UCLA game and he's like, no, no, it was a joke with my friends. Now, as a quarterback, I would not joke. As a college athlete, I would not joke about that stuff. But all my kids, or most have joked on Venmo. It's like a running gag on Venmo that you put in somehow why you need the money. Like, it's kind of even. I'm, you know, I even get it and I'm a dad. Like, that's like a running joke. So what was your take on that?

[Colin Cowherd]

Here's my take is a little different. How much of a loser do you have to be to be looking in someone's Venmo transaction history for anything suspicious? Colin, this was three years ago. This is what these college football message boards guys do. They're like, ooh, what can we find dirt on this guy? Let's look at his Venmo transactions. Like you're going three years deep to find. Oh, my gosh, he wrote about gambling and trying to out the guy.

[John Lithgow]

It's just.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's disturbing how this came to light. I'm with you 1000%. It's clearly a joke. The idea that the NCAA should investigate. This is laughable.

[John Lithgow]

I mean, give me a break. We agree on something. Phil Steele knows so much about college football. Tony Grossi, journalist, will be joining us before the Edge of the Show. I like the fact that Tony Grossi did not back down. He believed in the Big J. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

[Jake Hofer]

Hi, this is Jay. I'm the producer of the Paulie and Tony Fusco Show. Usually in these promos they ask you to listen to the show. I'm here to ask you please don't listen to the show. The hosts are two absolute morons who have the dumbest takes on sports imaginable. Don't listen to this show so it can get canceled.

[Phil Steele]

Whoa whoa, whoa.

[John Lithgow]

What the hell are you doing in our studio? Get him Paulie.

[Colin Cowherd]

Ignore that fool.

[John Lithgow]

Listen to the Pauli and Tony Fusco.

[Colin Cowherd]

Show on the iHeartRadio app or wherever.

[John Lithgow]

You get your podcast. He's still moving.

[Tony Grossi]

There'S nothing like sinking into luxury. @washablesofas.com you'll find the Annabe sofa which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom. Starting at only $699. The stain resistant performance fabric slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Anna Bay has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now you can shop up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop [e-mail] Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[American Public University]

Balancing work, family and education isn't easy, but American Public University makes it possible with online courses, monthly start dates and flexible schedules. APU is designed for busy professionals who need education that fits their lives. And Affordability matters too. APU offers the opportunity grant, giving students 10% off undergraduate and master's level tuition, helping you reach your goals without breaking the bank. Plus, they provide career services and 24. 7 mental health support at no extra cost. Visit Apu Apus Edu to learn more. That's Apu. Apus. Edu. Hey, folks, this message brought to you by the one and only official whiskey of the herd with Colin Coward, Green River Whiskey. Now here's a story that'll knock your socks off.

[John Lithgow]

Picture this.

[American Public University]

Founded way back in 1885, Green River Whiskey is OG Kentucky Cool, the 10th oldest distillery in the state.

[John Lithgow]

And get this.

[American Public University]

It was so valuable back in the day that 20 barrels of the good stuff were traded for shares and a gold mine. That's liquid gold, literally. But like any great drama, tragedy struck in 1917 with a fire that almost wiped it off the map. Cue the hero music. It was rebuilt on the same hallowed grounds. Let me tell you, better than ever. So whether you're sipping their single barrel bourbon or a smooth straight rye, know.

[John Lithgow]

You'Re raising a glass to history.

[American Public University]

Folks, here's to Green River Whiskey, where rich flavor meets richer stories. Hop on over to greenriverwhisky.com Discover a.

[John Lithgow]

Legend in a bottle today. Cheers to that.

[American Public University]

A product of Green River Distilling Company, Owensboro, Kentucky. Alcohol by volume varies by product. Green RiverWhiskey.com, please drink responsibly.

[John Lithgow]

Who cares about truth when the lies more entertaining.

[Angela Rye]

Hey, everybody. I'm Angela Rai, co host of Native Lampot with Tiffany Cross and Andrew Gillum. Through the lens of politics and culture, we talk with you every week to make sense of this madness.

[Andrew Gillum]

I've been telling Angela, I don't even know how to fight back right now. So what I'm focused on is just looking out for the truth.

[Tiffany Cross]

We're having the same debates that American households are having all over the country.

[Angela Rye]

Rest is certainly a form of self care, but if you are watching your full neighbors starve, not be able to pay bills, your rest is selfish.

[Andrew Gillum]

But the thing is, Angela, this is not the mess we created. So I do understand black folks feeling like, you know what, y' all got it.

[Tiffany Cross]

We're like family, but we disagree all the time. And we love when our listeners chime.

[Andrew Gillum]

In what would happen if we built our own little Wakandan communities in the rural South.

[John Lithgow]

Tiffany, do not run to no rural South. I don't know what you're on.

[Andrew Gillum]

What our audience is asking is, okay, fine, you want me to stop resting? What specifically are you asking me to do? Stay informed and take action.

[Tiffany Cross]

Listen to Native Land Pod on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your your podcast.

[John Lithgow]

Tony Grossi has been covering the Cleveland Browns for over four decades. In that time, they have the losingest record in the NFL, that man has endured. He'll be joining us before the end of the show. Here's JMAC with the news. No, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herd line news.

[Colin Cowherd]

Go back to Mike Sando's quarterback tears and hit on Justin Herbert. Listen. A lot of voters believe Herbert would eventually reach Tier one, but had a few flaws keep him from fully reaching his potential. Obviously, one of them is not winning a playoff game yet. One offensive coach said herbert lets little things distract him. I, I, that's a little strange. I don't know how you know that. Meanwhile, a defensive coordinator added, he's just a little bit robotic. You can tell by the way he processes everything. It's a click slower than some of the elites. I would agree that he does look robotic at times.

[John Lithgow]

That was the criticism, that was his criticism out of college, that he was mechanical and a bit robotic. And I think that's, I would say, yes. I think he has a beautiful throwing motion. But he is, I mean, first of all, he's really accurate, really strong and moves really well. And the Chargers always get quarterback.

[Phil Steele]

Right?

[John Lithgow]

But I think the criticisms of him are fair. When you say robotic doesn't mean he doesn't move well. But there is, that was a knock. In fact, Tom Telesco was the Chargers gm, and that was his worry. And then he went and watched him against Wisconsin and said, man, he's really good. He's not overly robotic. But at times, you know, there's, he's a bit mechanical. I think his delivery is the prettiest in the league. You know how like Jerry west was the logo. When he throws the ball, you can make him the NFL logo. If there was a player, he has the most perfect, functional, foundational throwing motion. But I think his, one of his core strengths is as well, humility. Like everybody loves him. People, his teammates want to win for him.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I don't see how robotic this guy acting like it's a knock. So Herbert had three interceptions last year. League low interception percentage rate in the league among quarterbacks. Like, he's processing great. The problem is, of course, he just doesn't have enough around him, which gets into an interesting discussion. Hey, Jalen Hurts has too much. We can't give him enough credit. Justin Herbert doesn't have enough. Let's give him a lot of credit. I, I don't know. I think Herbert's certainly in that 6, 7, 8 range.

[John Lithgow]

So do I. Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Let's go to the Detroit Lions, Colin. Obviously they lost both coordinators this offseason. You and I think the Lions take a step back, and that was kind of on display in their first preseason game. The media believes Detroit will take a step back, too. And that has only motivated Dan Campbell, who said, I would be lying if I said that doesn't get me going a little bit. That's the next challenge.

[John Lithgow]

Yeah, I mean, the division's good. And let's just say J.J. mcCarthy delivers and is a good B quarterback. B to B plus quarterback. Well, you're not winning that many games. That goes back to my theory on when the division's good, it's just harder to win games. And that's why Kansas City is going to win 11 games and not 14. It's just the division suddenly is just too good. And so if JJ McCarthy can play and the packers and JJ McCarthy and Chicago is going to be interesting. They have too much talent and too good of a coach not to be interesting. So I think stepping back is. It's not a criticism. It's a reality of what they are and what the division is.

[Colin Cowherd]

I also love how everybody's. Oh, we don't pay attention to the media. We only care about what's in this locker room. Meanwhile, you've got Shadour Sanders going up to Tony Grossi. You've got Dan Campbell. Yeah, I see the media saying this. They all pay attention. I know they say they don't. Schottenheimer putting on his visor backwards mentioning you by name. They all read and watch and listen. Like, let's just be real. Finally, Collins. Sportico has released their NFL valuations heading into the season, and the Dallas Cowboys remain 12.2. Sorry, $12.8 billion according to Sportico. The Rams checking in second. The New York Giants are third. Patriots, Niners. You see on the screen there. Eagles. My jets somehow checking in at 8 because they're in New York.

[John Lithgow]

I think these are all lower than the truth. If there's somebody out there. If Jeff beat. What's Jeff Bezos's. What is his net worth? Amazon's going nowhere. Yeah, I'm guessing his net worth is $40 billion or something. What is it? Okay, so Jeff Bezos has a $250 billion net worth. You don't think he'd spend 15 billion to own the Rams?

[Colin Cowherd]

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

[John Lithgow]

Hold it.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is like house hunting. Colin, come on.

[John Lithgow]

No cash. You're never selling it. You have no banknotes. Cash. When Steve Ballmer a decade ago or whenever it was spent 2 billion on the Clippers. And there was P. I'm like, folks, he bought it cash. He's never selling it. If you buy a lake, how. Or if you buy a beach house in Laguna and let's say it's listed at 24. You get into bidding warrior and you offer 28. They're not building any more beach houses in Laguna. Like, there is certain. There are no more LA Rams. This is it. The fact that there are people on this planet. Jeff Bezos has media holdings. If you don't think. If Stan Cronky tomorrow called Jeff and said, I want to give the team up. And Jeff's like, let's say I got 240 billion net worth. This is a parking ticket. He'd buy it in a second.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes, but for the Laguna beach house, a lot of people can afford $28 million. No, there are only a handful of people on the planet who can afford a $15 billion.

[John Lithgow]

Where are all the richest people in the world? Where are they all investing? What are you guaranteed that will never go away? Manchester United? The Yankees, The Dodgers? You don't know where Google's gonna be. Thank God they bought YouTube and Cloud. I mean, like, you don't know. There's a company that's, I think, reportedly vying for Google now. You do not know where Apple is going to be in 10 years. I know where the Rams are gonna be at SoFi in the NFL, in Los Angeles. Those are the safest investments for the. For billionaires.

[Colin Cowherd]

About an hour ago, the Portland Trailblazers were sold for like, like $4 billion. The Portland Trailblazers, 4 billion.

[John Lithgow]

Who bought them?

[Colin Cowherd]

Some owner of the Carolina Hurricanes. He's not moving the team. He's just buying an NBA team.

[John Lithgow]

All right, J. Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by the herd. Lie news. Was that. Was that. I didn't know that. I don't have my phone around me during the show.

[Colin Cowherd]

It just happened, according to a reporter in the NBA.

[John Lithgow]

So they're not moving the team?

[Colin Cowherd]

No, they're not moving the team.

[John Lithgow]

All right, well, Carolina's already got a team. Not much of one, but they got one. All right. Tony Grossi and Shador Sanders had that little, you know, that little moment. This guy's been covering the Cleveland Browns for 40 years. That. That's incredible. And the fact that he has survived, I mean, seriously, is something else. So he was in the middle of a little bit of a national story. We thought it was. I didn't like Shador Sanders going over. I think you have to have bigger concerns in your than this. Like I'm sorry but you know, there was a smile at the end. But we'll have the guy that was involved in this. You got silver hair? Always trust a guy with silver hair. Those guys know what they're doing. The Herd Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Tony Grossi]

There's nothing like sinking into luxury. At washablesofas.com, you'll find the Annabe sofa, which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom. Starting at only $699. The stain resistant performance fabric, slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcover, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now you can shop up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop [e-mail] Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions.

[American Public University]

Balancing work, family and education isn't easy, but American Public University makes it possible with online courses, monthly start dates and flexible schedules. APU is designed for busy professionals who need education that fits their lives. And Affordability matters too. APU offers the opportunity grant, giving students 10% off undergraduate and master's level tuition, helping you reach your goals without breaking a bank. Plus, they provide career services and 247 mental health support at no extra cost. Visit Apu Apus Edu to learn more. That's Apu Apus Edu hey folks, this message brought to you by the one and only official Whiskey of the Herd with Colin Cowers Green River Whiskey. Now here's a story that'll knock your socks off.

[John Lithgow]

Picture this.

[American Public University]

Founded way back in 1885, Green River Whiskey is OG Kentucky Cool, the 10th oldest distillery in the state. And get this, it was so valuable back in the day that 20 barrels of the good stuff were traded for shares in a gold mine. That's liquid gold. Literally. But like any great drama, tragedy struck in 1917 with a fire that almost wiped it off the map. Cue the hero music. It was rebuilt on the same hallowed grounds. Let me tell you better than ever. So whether you're sipping their single barrel bourbon or a smooth straight rye. Know you're raising a glass to history, folks. Here's to Green River Whiskey, where rich flavor meets richer stories. Hop on over to greenriverwhiskey.com, discover a.

[John Lithgow]

Legend in a bottle today. Cheers to that.

[American Public University]

A product of Green River Distilling Company, Owensboro, Kentucky. Alcohol by volume varies by product. Greenruverwhiskey.com Please drink responsibly.

[John Lithgow]

Who cares about truth when the lie is more entertaining?

[Angela Rye]

Hey, everybody, I'm Angela Rai, co host of Native Lamp Hot with Tiffany Cross and Andrew Gillum. Through the lens of politics and culture, we talk with you every week to make sense of this madness.

[Andrew Gillum]

I've been telling Angela I don't even know how to fight back right now. So what I'm focused on is just looking out for ourselves.

[Angela Rye]

That's the truth.

[Tiffany Cross]

We're having the same debates that American households are having all over the country.

[Angela Rye]

Rest is certainly a form of self care, but if you are watching your full neighbors starve, not be able to pay bills, your rest is selfish.

[Andrew Gillum]

But the thing is, Angela, this is not the mess we created. So I do understand black folks feeling like, you know what, y' all got it.

[Tiffany Cross]

We're like family, but we disagree all the time. And we love when our listeners chime.

[Andrew Gillum]

In what would happen if we built our own little Wakandan communities in the rural South.

[John Lithgow]

Tiffany, do not run to no rural South. I don't know what you're on.

[Andrew Gillum]

What our audience is asking is. Okay, fine, you want me to stop resting? What specifically are you asking me to do? Stay informed and take action.

[Tiffany Cross]

Listen to Nativeland pod on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Phil Steele]

Welcome home, y'.

[John Lithgow]

All Franchises are just not interesting. But there are two the Chicago Cubs for years and years and the Cleveland Browns that even when they they're losing and dysfunctional, they're kind of fascinating. And I was joking with our next guest is I, I think I've outside of maybe the Patriots with Brady and the Chiefs with Mahomes, I talk more Cleveland Browns than almost any other NFL franchise. Maybe, maybe, maybe the Bills now over the last seven, eight years with Josh Allen, but Tony Gross, he's been covering this team and the NFL since the early 80s, host of the Daily Grossi and former Plain Dealer, kind of a legendary Midwest newspaper. So Tony, first of all, you have endured for sure, that is let's start with Jimmy Haslam. So I've been very critical of Haslam where I think and I was of Jim Ursay. I think there's at any one time there are six great quarterbacks, six great left tackles and six great owners. There's a lot more impulsive, dysfunctional owners than fans realize is that, you know, Robert Kraft, but Jerry Jones has moved into sort of impulsive, odd category. I'm not a huge Haslam fan based on some things I've heard and seen. How is he viewed not by you, but by Cleveland fans? Is he viewed as part of the problem?

[Buzz Aldrin]

Well, the record speaks for itself. He's in his 13th season of owning the Browns, the Haslam family and the record has been awful. And he had a lot of growing pains early. I actually think he's maturing as an owner. You know, the Kevin Stefanski, Andrew Berry partnership, the coach GM are now in their sixth season. They've outlasted any other combination under the half of ownership. And I think he's learned to be patient and trust his football people a lot more than previously. But he still has that reputation. And until they win, I mean, they've never won a division title since they've been back as an expansion team. So the record, you know, precludes him. It's what he's known for. But. But I think he's maturing.

[John Lithgow]

Okay, listen, we all grow. So I said I thought Shador Sanders was underdrafted. Jackson Dart a little overdrafted. And I've been very. I have been very positive with him. I thought he played great Friday. I think he's got maturity issues. I hated the legendary draft room nonsense. The speeding tickets drove me nuts. I did not love him coming up to you. So let's, let's go to that moment. You're outspoken. You don't last as long as. As you do. You've got to be credible in the market. So what did you say that had him all riled up?

[Buzz Aldrin]

You know, I don't know if there's anything specific. It's just that since he arrived, I've treated him as just one of the 90 players. He's got these legion, these incredible legion of fans who think the Cleveland Browns season is all about Shador Sanders this year. And I haven't. I've stayed away from that mentality. Although we talk Shador constantly on our air, I have to be fair to, you know, what else is going on with the team. And there have been a few things I questioned. The first time at rookie minicamp, seeing Dylan Gabriel and Shador Sanders on the field together. That first day I came away and said, I understand why The Browns took Dylan Gabriel ahead of Shadur Sanders. I thought Gabriel did some things that Sanders at that time didn't do. I'm not sure. There's one smoking gun thing that I said to get him riled up. And it was the first time, you know, we've been in this camp for three going on four weeks and after that game was the first time he said anything to me.

[John Lithgow]

Fourth on the depth chart after that performance, I don't know. It's like the depth chart should be based on performance. Everybody else is hurt. Staying healthy is a skill. Were you surprised he was still fourth?

[Buzz Aldrin]

The reason I say no, Colin, is because I think the Browns are following their script of their training camp and one performance wasn't going to affect the next day. That performance will probably, well, obviously will affect his whole body of work when they evaluate everything. But the thing is, Dylan Gabriel hasn't had his opportunity yet. They evaluated Gabriel, you know, what, 40 spots, 50 spots higher in the draft, and they want to be fair to their own evaluation of him and they want to see Gabriel on the field before they make any adjustment to the depth chart. I think that's coming after this week. They're here in Philadelphia practicing against the Eagles. Gabriel is scheduled to start that game in all likelihood. And the coach said today, finally, for the first time, the plan was to have each of the rookies start one game in preseason. So I think that's why they haven't adjusted his either snap counts in practice or the rotation.

[John Lithgow]

Do you think they'll keep four quarterbacks? I've speculated they'll move Kenny Pickett at the end of camp or trade deadline or somewhat. What do you make about keeping four quarterbacks?

[Buzz Aldrin]

I think it's very possible, you know, with 16 guys on the practice squad that they can keep four, four quarterbacks on the 53 and accommodate the positions that they sacrifice then on the practice squad. I think they're very disappointed and frustrated that the Pickett has not gotten on tape during game action to show everybody what they might see in him. They think highly of him, but his hamstring problems have set back any idea of trading him or a market for him. But I can see them going into the season with all four and just seeing what happens around the rest of the league. Pickett does have some redeeming qualities for the right team. In his fourth year, he's been with two other teams. He's been a first round pick. He just hasn't been able to show this camp what the Browns saw in him.

[John Lithgow]

So I've said through the years I don't like my quarterbacks to be too light and unserious. Johnny Manziel was too goofy. Baker was too cocky. But I like confidence and I get a lot of pushback on that. But I always say I've been pretty good at seeing it. I didn't like Will Levis and the gun show. I thought it was arrogant. Again, confidence, arrogance and silly. There are times I've said with Shadour, he's a little unserious for me, a little playful. Is that. Am I. I mean that. That's my take is that history shows you that serious, driven, focused, almost obsessed guys do well in this league. What do you make of that comment? That he's a bit unserious?

[Buzz Aldrin]

I think he's got a playful personality. You know, he's really. I've constantly said this since I met him at the combine. You cannot leave a conversation with Shador without smiling. I mean, he is a very positive and playful guy. I don't think that gets into the way of his job. I think that endears him to teammates. It's a different kind of charisma about him. So I find him really charming as a young person. Actually, I've not had confrontations with him. That was an interaction and that was the only time he said anything to me that he was even hearing things or reading things.

[John Lithgow]

Yeah, it really is interesting. The obviously they have two first round picks. They want to get a quarterback. Boy, it's a good quarterback class Cade Club, Nick at Clemson and Drew Aller and Nuss Meyer and obviously Arch Manning and I mean, they. Cleveland's looking for a quarterback and it's the year to be looking for a quarterback. Finally, Tony Grossi for the radio audience, a very, very, very popular and renowned Cleveland host and former newspaper guy. It looks like to me in this division they're like a four win team. It's not an easy schedule. It's not an easy division. But I've said before, like when Peyton Manning left, there are years in a franchise when four wins is okay and this is the year for Cleveland. Let's say they go 4:13. I worry about Haslam being impulsive. Is Stefanski held in high enough regard that if they're really bad and get the number two pick that Stefanski maintains his job? It seems obvious he would. But the history of Cleveland and Haslam is they make moves that surprise us. So let's say they're 3 and 14. Does Stefanski retain it? Yeah.

[Buzz Aldrin]

This is where I think haslam's maturity comes in. I think that decision's already been made. I think both Stefanski and Andrew Berry are part of the solution of bringing the Browns out of the deshaun Watson era. You know, they still have a few years of salary cap ramifications, no matter what happens with Watson from here on out. So they need to go to the young rookie quarterback contract. Way to get out of this thing. And I think Haslam is relying on this partnership to see it through. In effect, he's not holding them accountable for the mistake that the desean Watson trade has been. And I don't have any doubt that the scenario you're describing will not be the end of this partnership. It's really. They're the guys that are going to lead them into the next quarterback era, whether that's the Dylan Gabriel or Shadow Sanders era or the Lenore Sellers or that next crop era. I think Haslam is determined that this is the. This is the plan. And he said before the draft, if we don't find the guy this year, we'll keep looking for him. And, you know, people want Shadow to start and they got to find out about him. You know, it's a long season. The Browns have played nine starting quarterbacks the last two years. Both of these guys are going to get their, you know, their dress rehearsals. So we'll see how it plays out. But I agree with you. I don't think you can let that quarterback class next year pass you by, no matter what happens this year, to be honest with you.

[John Lithgow]

No, it's. It is a great one. So we have. Jalen Hurts gave Shadow a ride in a golf cart today, joint practices, which is good to see. Apparently, they had a. They had a long conversation. We got to run. Tony Gross, he's been kind enough to take time. He's a busy guy. There we go. By the way, if you're going to take advice from any young quarterback, take it from Jalen Hurts, who's 27 going on 47. Might as well bring a briefcase to the podium. He's one of the most mature young men that is. I don't know if I've ever seen a guy who is better at the podium in a loud, relentless market. And Philadelphia's media is brutal, and Hertz has mastered it. Tony, thank you for stopping by. You were great. Tony Gross.

[Buzz Aldrin]

Thanks, Colin. Thanks for having me.

[John Lithgow]

Of course. Gotta support those radio guys. See you tomorrow.

[American Public University]

American Public University, where service members like you can access high quality, affordable education built for your lifestyle with online programs that fit around deployments, training and unpredictable schedules, APU makes it possible to earn your degree no matter where duty takes you. Their preferred military rate keeps tuition at just $250 per credit hour for undergraduate and master's tuition, and with 24. 7 mental health support, plus career coaching and other services, APU is committed to your success during and after your service. Learn more at APU apus. That's Apu Apus EDU Military what do.

[Tony Grossi]

You think makes the perfect snack?

[Colin Cowherd]

Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really.

[John Lithgow]

Craving it and it's convenient.

[Tony Grossi]

Could you be more specific?

[John Lithgow]

When it's cravenient okay, like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right down the street at am, pm or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at a.m. pM.

[Andrew Gillum]

I'm seeing a pattern here.

[John Lithgow]

Well yeah, we're talking about what I.

[Tony Grossi]

Crave, which is anything from am pm.

[John Lithgow]

What more could you want?

[Tiffany Cross]

Stop by AMPM where the snacks and.

[John Lithgow]

Drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravenience AM PM too much good stuff. Who cares about truth when the lies More entertaining Welcome home.

[Angela Rye]

I'm Angela Rye, co host of the Native Lampod with Andrew Gillum and Tiffany Cross, and we want y' all to survive and thrive in this political moment.

[Tiffany Cross]

We're having the same debates that American households are having all over the country.

[Angela Rye]

I'm terrified that in our wrecks rest we're going to miss the moment.

[Andrew Gillum]

You want me to stop resting? What specifically are you asking me to do? Stay informed and take action.

[Tiffany Cross]

Listen to Native Land pod on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jake Hofer]

I'm Jake Hofer and this is back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode I'll be asking eight whitetail hunting pros a focused, thought provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access?

[John Lithgow]

Should you? That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand.

[Jake Hofer]

Listen to Back 40 on iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Angela Rye]

This is an iHeart podcast.