THE HERD - HOUR 3 - Ryan Hollins joins The Herd

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd (Hour 3, July 27, 2026)

Guest: Ryan Hollins | Host: Jason McIntyre
iHeartPodcasts & The Volume

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Herd centers on the shockwaves triggered by LeBron James signing with the Philadelphia 76ers and the wide-ranging implications for the NBA. Jason McIntyre, joined by guest analyst and former NBA center Ryan Hollins, debates the "GOAT" conversation, the challenges facing the reloaded Sixers, playoff projections in a transformed Eastern Conference, and ripple effects on the Warriors, Lakers, and key NBA personalities. Later, Rachel Nichols joins with NFL news, highlighting updates on the 49ers and Rams.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. LeBron James Joins the Sixers – The Big Picture

[03:34–06:19]

• LeBron to Sixers: The panel reacts to LeBron surprising the league by signing with Philadelphia, joining Joel Embiid, Jaylen Brown, and Tyrese Maxey.
  • Jason McIntyre: “I couldn’t believe, how did this get by me?... We didn’t see what was there—all along, Philadelphia, in the inner workings with the ownership, with Bob Myers there, with Maxey being a clutch guy?”
  • Ryan Hollins: “I personally think it will work, but I don’t think they’re coming out of the East next year… They seem closer to the ’04 Lakers with Malone and Payton than the ’17 Warriors.”

2. GOAT Debate: LeBron vs. Jordan (and Barkley’s New Standard)

[04:34–05:18]

• Charles Barkley’s Hot Take: Barkley says LeBron would need “two more championships in his mid-40s” to pass Jordan as the greatest.
  • Colin Cowherd (via Barkley): “If he wins two more…you’d have to be kind of crazy not to say he’s the best to ever do it.”
  • Jason McIntyre: “We’re just bending ourselves into pretzels to diminish LeBron and his accomplishments. It’s insane. Hey, Charles, news flash. LeBron’s already the GOAT. He did it when he won a title with the Lakers.”

3. Can the Sixers Make It Work? Chemistry and Usage Rates

[07:02–09:59]

• Major concern: So many stars—can LeBron, Embiid, Brown, and Maxey coexist?
• Jason McIntyre: “Nick Nurse has a tall order… If it works, it will be because LeBron has averaged about 8 or 9 assists, shared the ball, run offense.”
• Ryan Hollins: Questions if LeBron can average those assists when Maxey, Brown, and Embiid all need the ball.
  • McIntyre: “He’s going to have the ball in his hands, but he’s going to have to gain the trust of these guys… LeBron will have a lot of mouths to feed in this situation.”

4. Knicks Turn Down LeBron, A Testament to Stability

[14:45–15:50]

• LeBron’s camp reportedly gauged interest with the Knicks, but the team declined.
• McIntyre: “That says everything about Jalen Brunson and his leadership… It wasn’t a shade to LeBron, it’s just LeBron is such a huge personality. You don’t need to change anything when you just won.”

5. Assessing the Eastern Conference Hierarchy

[15:50–18:57]

• Ryan Hollins and Jason McIntyre debate their East top-8:
  • McIntyre: “People don’t realize how stacked it is until you put pen to paper… I don’t have Giannis in Miami. I do not have Kawhi, assuming he goes to Toronto.”
  • Hollins: “You gotta be out of your mind to say that the Heat aren’t in. A healthy Giannis puts you in the top 8 by himself. He’s got Bam Adebayo… You’re crazy, J. Mac.”
  • Argument unfolds over the merits of the Magic, Hawks, and other East hopefuls.

6. Golden State Warriors – Offseason Stagnation & Steph Curry’s Future

[18:57–22:22]

• Warriors add no free agents while rest of the NBA reshuffles aggressively.
• McIntyre: “They put all their eggs in the LeBron basket. Now they don’t get him.”
• Hollins: “Steph Curry’s had loyalty… They’re going to have to do it the old school way, develop their players… Steph alone is good enough to get you to the playoffs, but it’s tough not seeing him compete for a championship.”
• Is Curry’s patience infinite?
  • Hollins: “He has not officially said he’s staying. He’s a free agent next year.”
  • Would you have a problem with Steph leaving?
    • McIntyre: “No, not at all. I have no problem with player empowerment. He’s younger than LeBron, but if someone can join him, he could go out and compete.”

7. Lakers Post-LeBron: Did They Try Hard Enough? Luka’s Time

[22:22–23:49]

• Should the Lakers have tried harder to retain LeBron for another discount deal?
  • Hollins: “Should Luka have done more to keep LeBron at 2 years, $8 million?”
  • McIntyre: “Who says the Lakers didn’t try? I think the money wasn’t there… They’ve committed to youth and Austin Reaves. Luka Doncic is the focus now, building around him with shooting, defense, and shot-blocking.”

8. Western Conference Preview Tease & Rockets Hot Take

[23:49–24:56]

• McIntyre prepping his West order; Rockets could be top 3.
  • Hollins: “Fred VanVleet is by far the most underrated player in the NBA right now. We’re a two seed with him, not the same without him.”
  • McIntyre: “That’s a hot take… You guys hate on the little guys, the Brunsons and the VanVliets.”

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NFL Quick Hits with Rachel Nichols

[29:19–41:45]

1. 49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan: Injury & Absence

[29:24–32:43]

• Shanahan limited at training camp after a serious car accident; 40 stitches, possible concussion, nearly lost his eye.
  • Rachel Nichols: “The expectation is he’s going to be ok… Sometimes it’s not a bad thing for players to hear another voice as long as they’re sticking to Shanahan’s script.”

2. Rams: Aaron Donald Comeback Watch

[32:48–36:18]

• Aaron Donald (retired in March 2024) rumored to be in comeback shape as Rams trade for Miles Garrett.
  • Rachel Nichols: “He’s never stopped living in the weight room. If he comes back, he talks about doing the whole season, not just a cameo.”
  • Ryan Hollins: “Are the Rams fine with all this attention on Donald when stories like Puka Nacua’s recovery or Stafford’s health are bigger for the team?”

3. Broncos Outlook and Historical Perspective

[36:20–38:14]

• Bo Nix healed from ankle surgery; great defense, but brutal early schedule and historical precedent working against a repeat of last season’s 14–3 campaign.
  • Rachel Nichols: “Not a single 14-win team in the last five years has even matched their previous win total the next season.”

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Sixers Ball Distribution & Sacrifice: Who Steps Back?

[38:44–43:01]

• Tony Jones: “This is going to be the first time in LeBron’s career he doesn’t average 20 points per game.”
• Rachel Nichols: “LeBron, when he picked Philadelphia, one of the first words he used was sacrifice. He knows he’ll need to do it, but what about the others? For Jaylen Brown, will sacrificing touches hurt his free agency value?”
• McIntyre: “If we polled 50 experts, you’d get no consensus on the Sixers’ four best players. LeBron has proof of concept—when everything revolves around me, we win. Embiid should have a reality check. He’s never gotten it done. He needs to fall in line.”

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Memorable Quotes

• On LeBron’s Legacy:

  • “We’re just bending ourselves into pretzels to diminish LeBron and his accomplishments. It’s insane. Hey, Charles, news flash. LeBron’s already the GOAT.”
    – Jason McIntyre, 05:18

• On Philly’s Fit:

  • “I think Nick Nurse has a tall order. Who do you think takes a step back for the Sixers? As you saw with the usage rate numbers, they’re through the roof.”
    – Jason McIntyre, 07:02

• On the Knicks Passing on LeBron:

  • “That says everything about Jalen Brunson and his leadership… LeBron is such a huge personality. You don’t need to change anything when you just won.”
    – Jason McIntyre, 15:06

• On LeBron’s Usage in Philly:

  • “He’s going to have to have the ball in his hands… It’s creating for others, running offense, and trust. He’s in a unique situation—if they succeed, he’ll get a lot of credit.”
    – Jason McIntyre, 09:05

• On Aaron Donald:

  • “He’s never stopped living in the weight room… If he comes back, his teammates say it’s either the whole season or nothing.”
    – Rachel Nichols, 34:17

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Notable Timestamps

• 03:34 — LeBron-to-Sixers reactions & KD champion debates
• 05:18 — Charles Barkley on LeBron “needing 2 more rings”
• 07:02 — Ryan Hollins on Philly’s star fit: “Feels like ’04 Lakers”
• 09:05 — How LeBron distributes the ball in Philly
• 14:45 — Knicks’ logic for turning down LeBron
• 15:50 — Top-8 East debate: Heat, Giannis, Magic, Hawks
• 18:57 — Warriors’ offseason failure, Steph loyalty vs. ring chasing
• 22:22 — Lakers after LeBron: Luka’s role and the youth movement
• 23:49 — Western Conference predictions; VanVleet as NBA’s most underrated
• 29:24 — Shanahan injury update; 49ers coaching changes
• 32:48 — Aaron Donald comeback buzz in LA
• 36:20 — Broncos’ outlook, overcoming historical odds
• 38:44 — Tony Jones: “LeBron might average under 20 points for the first time”
• 41:45 — Who among Sixers needs to sacrifice the most?
• 43:01 — Jaylen Brown’s contract future, Nick Nurse’s challenge with egos

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Overall Tone & Highlights

• Lively, debate-driven, and hot-take heavy—McIntyre and Hollins spar on nearly every major NBA and NFL topic.
• Recurring themes: player empowerment, managing superstar egos, the fallibility of “super-teams,” chemistry over talent.
• NBA insider dynamics underpin critical takes and speculation.
• NFL updates provide a rapid but nuanced look at coaching (Shanahan) and legendary players’ comebacks (Aaron Donald).

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This episode is essential listening for NBA fans grappling with the post-LeBron landscape, Philly’s superteam prospects, and the evolving legacies of basketball’s biggest stars, as well as those wanting a quick hit of up-to-date NFL news with personality and insight.

Transcript

[Jason McIntyre]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Rich Covino]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Now let's get this party started. You're listening to FOX Sports Radio.

[Ryan Hollins]

Welcome back. So one of the problems I see LeBron running into. We'll get to Ryan Hollins here in a moment. This is going to be a problem in Philly and again, this is not his problem. This is an outside problem. So I got a buddy who was out here in la, moved to Georgia and he is the biggest anti Kevin Durant guy I've ever met. He claims and he's not the only one. I run into this play and pick up all a lot. Oh, KD's not a real champion. He joined the warriors who were stacked and then he won titles and I'm like, they needed him. They had lost to the Cavs. KD was the MVP of the finals two years in a row. Like, come on, they needed him. Doesn't matter. He's not a real champion. I was like, all right, you can't fight that. Somebody's going to say that. You could present your argument. We're already hearing, oh, LeBron's going to a stacked team in Philly with Embiid, the all Star and mvp Jaylen Brown, the all NBA guy. Maxi is an all star and a major ascending student.

[Jason McIntyre]

What?

[Ryan Hollins]

LeBron's going to a stacked team and now you got Charles Barkley coming out. I mean this was ridiculous. I'm not. They don't want me going after Barkley. Guys, what do you want me to say? This is what Barkley said. Listen to this comment about LeBron and Kenny past Michael Jordan.

[Jason McIntyre]

If he wins back to back championship, to walk away this thing at 4445, I'll say something I never said before. I think I just saw the greatest basketball player ever. It ain't no shame saying he's the third best basketball player you ever seen. If they can win two more, two more, two more. Now if he wins two more, you, you, you. I think you, you you have to be kind of crazy not to say he's the best to ever do it.

[Ryan Hollins]

He needs. LeBron needs two more championships in his mid-40s to pass Michael Jordan. Like, what? So we're already seeing it. He's. He hasn't even given his introductory press conference. And LeBron to pass Jordan or for this to be, like, a win, this needs to happen. What are we doing? Two more championships? That's not a reasonable expectation. They are not the favorites. They're not the second favorites. They're not the third favorites. They're not going to be. They're not. Maybe if they move off Embiid, but, like, we're. We're just. We're bending ourselves into pretzels to diminish LeBron and his accomplishments. It's insane. Hey, Charles, news flash. LeBron's already the GOAT. He did it when he won a title with the Lakers. All right, let's bring on Ryan Hollins, former NBA center, played many teams. He and I like to spar a lot. Ryan, first of all, I want to know your initial reaction when LeBron landed in Philly on Friday.

[Jason McIntyre]

It was like that meme where you just sit there clueless and you're tapping your head. I couldn't believe, how did this get by me? How did this get by you, J. Mac? I mean, we sat there and we spoke about it, and then the only thing we heard about philly is that LeBron didn't trust in beats health. So I think just there was no relation. Maybe there was a relation there with the Heat, clearly, with Cleveland, Golden State, with Draymond. But we were searching and we didn't see what was there. All along was Philadelphia in the inner workings with the ownership, with Bob Meyer there with Maxi being a clutch guy? And again, wow, I was in shock just like everybody.

[Ryan Hollins]

Yeah, I personally think it will work, but I don't think they're coming out of the east next year. I mean, we've seen teams. I mean, these. These guys seem closer to the 04 Lakers, where they added Carl Malone and Gary Payton, as opposed to, say, the 2017 warriors, the greatest team in NBA history. Those guys had role players, defined roles. Hey, Zaza. Defense, rebounding. That's it. You ain't getting shots. Clay, catch and shoot. That's it. My guy. No creation. They had to find roles. I don't know what this Philly team's going to be. I think Nick Nurse has a tall order. Who do you think takes a step back for the Sixers? Because as you saw with the usage rate numbers, they're through the roof.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, here's the thing. Nick Nurse has always hung his hat on the defensive end of the floor, and that's going to be the challenge here. Just like in Miami, when the big three got together, how are they going to get out and commit themselves defensively? For LeBron specifically, he's in a perfect situation. The reason being is that as we talk about chemistry, if all of this comes together the right way, it will be because LeBron orchestrated it. He has a number of options. He's got three or four shooting guards, Jaylen Brown, Maxey, and a young fellow who can go and get it. And then you got Joel Embiid who can. These are not perfect pieces. J. Mac, we spoke about this, and if it works, it will be because LeBron James has averaged about eight or nine assists a game. He's shared the ball, he's run offense, and he's put his guys in positions where they can be extremely successful.

[Ryan Hollins]

So how's LeBron going to average 8 or 9 assists when Tyrese Maxey needs the ball to create? Look at the usage rate on the screen. Jaylen Brown being the man in Boston, and it was, it worked out great. They were, I believe, the number two seed in the East. Like, Brown had his best year ever. Joel Embiid needs the rock. He, whether it's on the block at the three point line, he needs the ball. Like, how is LeBron going to average eight assists a game when these other guys have the ball all the time?

[Jason McIntyre]

He's going to have to have the ball in his hands, but he's going to have to gain the trust of these guys and say, hey, jb, I'm going to get you on a postcard. I'm going to get you slash in the rim. I'm going to be kicking the ball, you know, up the floor. Maxi will play a little 13 pick and roll where I allow you to get downhill, you know, or a little c action with LeBron on the elbow where he's distributing. And again, where LeBron averaged about 20 points with the Lakers and was excellent in the playoffs, this is going to have to be 20 assists by him because he's got a lot of mouths to feed in this situation. So VJ Edgecomb, you know, you don't want this to be the young forgotten player in a situation. So again, for LeBron, it's. It's creating for others, it's running offense, and again, it's trust. But he's in a very unique situation where you if they succeed, he's going to get a lot of this credit because he's going to be the guy to have to answer these questions.

[Rich Covino]

Be sure to catch live editions of

[Jason McIntyre]

the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. Hey, we're Covino and Rich, Fox Sports radio every day, 5 to 7pm Eastern. But here's the thing. We never have enough time to get to everything we want to get to.

[Rich Covino]

And that's why we have a brand new podcast called Over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun

[Jason McIntyre]

in our two hour show. We never get to everything honestly, because this guy is over promising things we never have time for. Yeah, you blubber lips blaming me. Well, you know what? It's called Over Promise. You should be good at it because you've been overpromising women for years.

[Rich Covino]

Well, it's a Covino and Rich after

[Jason McIntyre]

show and we want you to be a part of it.

[Rich Covino]

We're going to be talking sports, of course, but we're also going to talk life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing about something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called Over Promised.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make sure you check out Over Promised and also uncensored, by the way. So maybe we'll go at it even a little harder. It's going to be the best after show podcast of all time.

[Rich Covino]

There you go, overpromising.

[Jason McIntyre]

And remember, you could see it on YouTube, but definitely. Join us.

[Rich Covino]

Listen to Over Promised with Covino and rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode brought to you by Verizon Business. When we watch the World cup, we focus on the stars, the players, the coaches, the matches. But here's what's fascinating. What does it take to make an event this big actually work? The World cup from FIFA isn't just the biggest ever. It's also the most technologically complex. 104 matches, 16 stadiums, 3 countries. Think about that. That's not just a sporting event. That's one of the biggest logistical and technological challenges in the world. And with billions of people watching, there's no room for error. But for Verizon business, that's another day. With private 5G networks in every stadium, more than 80,000 miles of fiber, end to end security, Verizon business is powering FIFA's World Cup. If Verizon business can do that, imagine what they can do for your business. Visit verizon.com powering FIFAWorldCup now to learn more Alienware's Back to School events the perfect time to score top gaming gear with incredible features and Intel Core processors. To go beyond performance, save big on gaming desktops, laptops and more. Start your Alienware journey with the Alienware 15 gaming laptop featuring Intel Core processors. Smoothly game live stream and multitask for hours on end. Plus play through every game exactly how you want with customizable Alien FX lighting across your Alienware ecosystem, creating your very own gaming profile and more. Finally, pair your incredibly smooth gaming experience and immersive visuals and sound by saving on sleek Alienware monitors and headsets and more. This limited time sale awaits you [e-mail] deals. That's alienware.com deals plans can be a maybe for people with chronic migraine 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more Botox Ana Botulinum toxin a prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It Prevents on average 8 to 9 headache days a month versus 6 to 7 for placebo. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Botox effects may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as trouble swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness can be signs of a life threatening condition. Those with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions like rash, breathing problems, dizziness, neck and injection site pain and headache. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions like als, Myasthenia gravis or Lambert Eaton syndrome and medicines like botulinum toxins which may increase the risk of serious side effects. Make a plan and ask your doctor about Botox. Visit botoxchronicmigraine.com or call 1-844botox. Now more than ever, Americans need a laugh. Enter the Super Troopers to the rescue. Vermont's finest and most shockingly offensive mustachioed highway patrol officers return to the big screen in Super Troopers 3. More pullover pranks, more over the top shenanigans than ever. The latest installment of the cult comedy classic Rod Farva is the wildly over the top Indian engagement to Thorny's sister spirals out of control. Debauchery, bachelor parties, a wedding that Thorny's desperate to stop, and a dangerous drug smuggling ring all threaten the troops, friendship and future. Fill your liter of cola, grab your buds and roll up to the multiplex for Super Troopers 3 only in theaters August 7th. Get tickets. Meow.

[Ryan Hollins]

Yeah, I just look at the Thunder, you know, they've got defined roles. Hartenstein, we're not running anything for you, bro. Chet, we need threes. McCain, get threes. Wallace, defense. I don't see that in Philly. Let me ask you, there was a report that LeBron's camp went to the Knicks to gauge interest in. The Knicks were like, now we good. What do you make of that?

[Jason McIntyre]

They had to be good. That's no disrespect to LeBron. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And I think that says everything about Jalen Brunson and his leadership, what he means to the city. And for a guy who was overlooked by Dallas, he was questioned by the national media. Can you win a championship with the small guard? He's done it. And he took over 45 points. I mean, that was a historical outpour. Shout out to the Knicks, shout out to Brunson is a storybook ending there. But again, I don't think it was a shade to LeBron. It's just LeBron is such a huge personality. You don't need to change anything, as you won and you already see the Knicks have, you know, lost. Mitchell, Robinson and a number of the pieces that are off the bench weren't there the same way. But I don't. I don't see it as shade to LeBron.

[Ryan Hollins]

Okay, let me get. I did. Now that, you know, the east is largely settled, maybe DeRozan will move or Russell Westbrook will go somewhere, but I've got my top eight in the East. Now, listen, the east is stacked. People don't realize it until you put pen to paper. And we're going to get it on the screen here for you. So top eight in the East. I do not have Giannis in Miami, and I do not have Kawhi. Assuming he goes to Toronto. The deal's consummated again, ryan Pistons were the 1 seed last year. You're. You're shaking your head. You look upset, but you can't just say you need this team in there. I want to know who you're pulling out and why.

[Jason McIntyre]

I think obviously with the Pistons, I think they're going to find a way to sign a big fellow back. So they're going to jump up. I mean, the Hawks magic. I mean, I like the Pacers in the mix, but I think they've got to be. They got to fix things. You got to see Halliburton and how many games he's going to play is he going to be on back to backs. But you got to be out of your mind to say that the Heat aren't in it. You got to understand a healthy Giannis onto the Kupo puts you in the top eight by himself. He's got Bam out of bio. And we talked about the Heat culture last time we spoke, so you're out of control for the Heat to be on there. And again, I think Giannis alone makes things happen. He's good enough where there's going to be spacing under spoke system. They're going to be defending physical, tough, hard nose. And I know the roster seems extremely bare at the moment, but that system based around Giannis Antetokounmpo, who's already led a team to the championship, I think you're out of your mind. And he's got bail out of bay. You got two versatile bigs who can play off each other. You're crazy right now, J. Mac. You're crazy, J. Mac.

[Ryan Hollins]

Giannis did win a title, like, 18 calf injuries ago. What do you mean spacing? Who are they spacing for? Davion Mitchell and Andrew Wiggins. Like, I don't. I'm out on them. But you don't like the Magic. This is a team that should have beat the Pistons, had them down bad, blew the biggest lead, fire their coach. They bring on Sweeney, who you know is a great defensive mind. And the Hawks. The Hawks played the Knicks tougher than anybody else in the postseason. Are you missing out on Jalen Johnson, J Squared and company? Hell, I almost put the Wizards with Debona and Young and AD in my top 10.

[Jason McIntyre]

I think for Jalen Johnson, man, he's got the talent to be a one. You know, right now, a guy with the ball in his hands. But right now, you know, he's your Scottie Pippen. You know, he's a two and he played that role. And I think the Hawks are excellent. But again, I'm not going to just leapfrog them over these scenes because you got to understand, you're a prisoner of recency bias right now. We didn't see Giannis Antetokounmpo play last season. He was resting. This guy's going to come back motivated and focused next season. So because you didn't see him in your mind, you're going, he not Giannis no more. He's very much still Giannis, and he could have played. And obviously they were focused on getting the most bang for their buck in this trade. And him coming back a little early would have risked it because he's old school, he's going to leave it out on the line and play extremely physical. As far as the Magic, I think offensively there's still struggles there. It's a great young core, but again, it's a group that you're on the fence of getting over that hump.

[Ryan Hollins]

Okay, some fiery takes from Ryan Hollins joining us here on the Herd. Let me pivot to the big loser in LeBron sweepstakes, and that's my guy, Steph Curry. Ryan, I'm sure you saw the graphic floating around social media this weekend. The warriors are the only team not to add any free agents in the league. The Lakers have nine new guys, Hawks have like five or six. Everybody's out of people. Golden State added nobody. They put all their eggs in the LeBron basket. Now they don't get him and it's like, oh, shucks, what, are we going to give Draymond his money back? You know, Moses Moody's not coming back. Jimmy Butler's not coming back for a while. Horford's a fossil. I don't know, man. This is a team with a win total right around 500. You know, what do we do with Curry? What's your take on on Steph?

[Jason McIntyre]

I think right now we haven't heard anything about Steph wanting to leave Golden State. I think if anything, that's just everybody else speaking out or wanting to see somebody go over there and join him. He's a bit of a throwback in that scenario, because as a player normally at this age, you say, well, if it's not working, let me go get a ring. And he's had loyalty there in Golden State that he's not going to shake or waver with. They're going to have to do it the old school way. They're going to have to develop their players. They're going to have to have some guys up Pajipski and play big role, big roles, and go from averaging 17 points to in that 20 point range. And again, Steve Kerr and his system, they've been pretty darn good. So Golden State's always been a tough team. They have their culture. They're going to be a tough out. This is part of the reason why LeBron went to the Eastern Conference, because again, you got Golden State in that ac, but again, for Steph Curry, he's good enough alone to get you to the playoffs, but it's tough not to see him competing for a championship. But again, we cannot argue, okay, on one end where LeBron is ring chasing, as you would say, as he should be able to do at 41 years old, by the way. And then Steph Curry's who's saying, I'm going to stay where I'm at. I'm staying put. The loyalties in Golden State.

[Ryan Hollins]

Well, wait a minute. He has not officially said that. And Marcus Thompson, who wrote a book on Curry, said, this could get a little ugly. He's a free agent next year. Now, is there a world where Steph Curry says, Damn, LeBron took two years, eight mil and becomes the best contract in the league? Well, I could do that and go to San Antonio or Charlotte, wherever I go, to the Knicks, and now all of a sudden, I could win more titles. Would you have an issue with Steph Curry leaving Golden State?

[Jason McIntyre]

No, not at all. I have no problem with player empowerment. Now, here's the challenge, too, with Steph Curry. He's not in the. Me and LeBron are 41. You know, I've been doing this thing with you, J. Mac. What, about nine, ten years now we've been sitting here. LeBron's still at it. Curry's a bit younger, so he has the feeling where, yeah, 38. Where, hey, if someone can join him, he gets another star there or a healthy Jimmy Butler, he can go out and compete for a championship. They have put, you know, chemistry and team over success. And I think what's tough is that, you know, they were banking on Kaminga and Moody, and it just didn't work out. And I don't want to dive into the inner workings of what happened or what didn't happen with those guys, but they were the next steps. They were the next young nucleus to kind of take over and help support Steph Curry. So, again, they've got to figure things out in Golden State. I don't think all is lost. I think it's just a challenge of Moody now and Jimmy Butler getting healthy and seeing what that looks like, if not being able to see if you can make a move once those guys can show that they can play.

[Ryan Hollins]

All right, Ryan, we'll wrap up with. I would go to your Rockets, but I think the Lakers are more interesting real quick. You know, the Snowtime Lakers, Walker, Kessler and company. Should Luca have tried to do more, seeing that LeBron signed for two years, $8 million. Do you think Luca's thinking, guys, why didn't we just keep LeBron at 2 years, 8 million or try? Should they have tried, or do you think they're fine with moving on in the LeBron business? Walker, Kessler Reeves, Quinton Grimes and company

[Jason McIntyre]

who said that the Lakers didn't try to keep LeBron. I think that, you know, everything that I understand that his mindset was to, you know, forward. I just think the money wasn't on the table the way that it was there for. For Austin Reeves. They had a commitment to youth and Austin Reeves a guy that they had developed. And I think the challenge for the. For the Lakers and Luka Doncic is just Luka being healthy. He played at an MVP level last season. Unfortunately, he ends up injured. He's lost a lot of weight. He's been looking good in the off season and, you know, obviously for him, just his love and focus for the game. He's still in la. That's one of the most talented, baddest men. Men in the league. And we've seen that Luka Doncic alone can go out and win you a playoff game or two, if not a playoff series. So again, the Lakers have committed with Walker, Kessler and defenders to go out and build around Luka Doncic with shooting and defense and shot blocking. So now it's Luca's show.

[Ryan Hollins]

Interesting. So Ryan Hollins, just as a tease, I did the East. You saw them, you mocked me. I'm doing the west tomorrow. And the Lakers are three brothers. I know you're going to hate that. I don't know where to slot the Rockets. Do you want to give any advice on where to put them?

[Jason McIntyre]

I think it'd be hard not to have the Rockets at three. I think with Fred Van Vleet Black, I think he's the most right now. Right now. Here it is. Here it is. Fred Van Bleach is the most underrated player in the NBA because people don't value. Oh, no. J. Mac. J. Mac. Guys like you. Guys like you, they don't value Kidman Streets. They don't value passing, they don't value toughness. They don't value leadership. That is the biggest difference. We had a group of guys that were learning and playing out of position last year. So Fred Van Fleet, by far most underrated player in the NBA right now. We're two seed with them, you know, not the same without him.

[Ryan Hollins]

Okay, that's a. That is a hot take. Most underrated player in the NBA. And listen, I like VanVleet, you know, Wichita State guy. I'm a fan, but most underrated player in the league. I think that's going a lot.

[Jason McIntyre]

You guys hate on the. You guys hate on the little guys, the Brunsons and the Van Vliets you're not believers, but those guys are very important in these scenarios.

[Rachel Nichols]

I love it.

[Ryan Hollins]

All right, says Ryan Holland, the former NBA center that I, a shooting guard, hate on guards. Anyways. All right, Ryan, Thanks a lot, man. Enjoy the rest of your summer, bud.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, Jack.

[Ryan Hollins]

Yeah, Good stuff from Ryan Hollins. All right, Coming up next, is this right Kyle Shanahan and the Niners. There's something going on there. We're going to talk about that next year on the Herd.

[Rich Covino]

One more herd.

[Ryan Hollins]

The herd streams 24 hours a day,

[Rich Covino]

seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app search heard to listen live or

[Jason McIntyre]

on demand whenever you'd like.

[Rich Covino]

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[Ryan Hollins]

From Ryan Hollins. That guy. He's a funny guy. Ryan Holland, former NBA center, former UCLA center. Let's go to Rachel Nichols with the news. She's funny, too. She's got some good material.

[Jason McIntyre]

No, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herdline news.

[Rachel Nichols]

Thank you, Jason. Now will you go tell my kids no one that your kids never think you're funny, right? No.

[Ryan Hollins]

They think you're cringe.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, exactly. Dad humor. I'm sure you get that quite a lot. All right, we don't normally do injury reports on coaches, but I do have one for you. Niners coach Kyle Shanahan is going to be limited in practice during training camp due to the concussion he suffered in a recent car accident. Assistant head coach and offensive line coach Chris Forster will be running the team until Shanahan returns. But when Forster spoke to reporters earlier, he made it clear he's not doing this alone.

[Jason McIntyre]

It's really a group thing. You know, and the title puts me in this position. And I was very, you know, grateful that John and Kyle felt, you know, some of. Some of the things I could take the lead on, like this right here. But there's other things. You know, for example, you know, our team meetings. Instead of me running every team meeting, we'll split up an offense and defense and Raheem and Clay will do things. We'll have some team meetings where maybe other people, maybe we'll have Boyer lead one and cover different things. Kyle is one of his. One of the greatest things he does is how he leads a team meeting and talks football, teaches the team football.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, look, supposedly Shanahan is going to be ready to go by Week 1 when the Rams are down in Australia. I don't know how big a deal do you think it is that he's not going to be there throughout training camp as consistently as he normally would?

[Ryan Hollins]

Yeah, I mean, reading some of these details from Chris Sims about, you know, him and Shanahan go way back. Like, 40 stitches in his face. Like, nearly lost his right eye, like, broken. I mean, this. I don't know for sure that he's going to be back anytime soon. I mean, you could say, yeah, a guy's coming back, but, like. And that's huge. Kyle Shanahan's one of the, what, five best coaches in the league?

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah. I mean, I think that concussion is sort of one of the main things of why he's not as intensely in there, which they do expect. That's not, you know, it's not going to last more than a month or so, they hope. He was already out on practice on the field for about a half hour the other day. I don't know what he did today, and that hasn't come in yet, but I think the expectation is he's going to be okay. Look, as you said, it's one of the top five coaches in the NFL, so that is valuable. Obviously, the reason you have a head coach like Kyle Shanahan is to have Kyle Shanahan there. That being said, it is an experienced staff. I mean, look, Chris was just up there talking. He has been a coach for 34 years. That's longer than a lot of guys on the roster have been alive. Right. You've got Raheem Morris, he's got 20 years of experience. Clay Kubiak, five years. Brant Boyer, you heard him talking about special teams, 14 years as a coach. So. So I don't think it's a worse thing sometimes for guys to hear another voice than they usually would hear. As long as these are guys who are sticking to Shanahan's script and Shanahan, as they said, he is around. He's just not kind of participating as fully. The Australia thing is an interesting thing though, in terms of will he be ready for week one? I don't know if you've been to Australia, Jason. That trip back and forth is no joke. And I know we're on the west coast, they're on the west coast, but it's a 15 hour flight. It's a 17 hour time difference. I've done it a few different times.

[Ryan Hollins]

A few.

[Rachel Nichols]

You really get killed on the way back. And I think that that is something that, especially if you're having concussion issues, you know, you're tired, obviously can lead into it, but we'll have to see. Obviously the most important thing is that Kyle Shanahan sounds like he's gonna be okay. I mean, serious car accident and, you know, everyone involved is lucky that there things weren't worse.

[Ryan Hollins]

Aside from that, I just don't know about the Niners. I have some questions. You know, that division, you know, obviously

[Rachel Nichols]

it's an incredibly hard division. Yeah, obviously. But I don't know. All right, speaking of a hard division, you know, what else, you know who's good in that division? The LA Rams. We were talking about them earlier. Aaron Donald's return seeming more and more likely over the last two weeks. The 35 year old retired in March of 2024. He of course, played 10 NFL seasons, but the Rams traded for Miles Garrett And Jason, we've been talking about it ever since. Since Aaron Donald may want to come back and be part of that. Sean McVay has been adamant he's not sure what Donald is going to do, but he spoke recently with an update on where Donald's head is at.

[Ryan Hollins]

For those of you guys that do

[Rich Covino]

know Aaron, he's very diligent. Anything that he does, he does all in. And so he's going through a very strict regimen and process that was similar to what he did when he played.

[Ryan Hollins]

See how his body responds and feels.

[Rich Covino]

And then. And we've had some things that we'll

[Ryan Hollins]

just kind of, you know, check up

[Rich Covino]

on each other and then we'll see

[Ryan Hollins]

when we have more information whether or

[Rich Covino]

not we're going to give it a go or whether or not he's going to continue to enjoy what he's been

[Ryan Hollins]

doing for the last couple years. But if that is something that he wants to do, we are going to, you Know, try to be able to make that happen.

[Rachel Nichols]

Jason. I do a lot of like events, you know, panels, things like that with retired NFL players. And a lot of them sort of, you know, they puff out a couple of years, you know, I can finally drink whatever I want, eat whatever I want. Aaron Donald's never done that. He has, like lived in the weight room since he retired. If he does come back, he's 35 years old. How confident are you that his body could even hold up through a season, even if he's in a more limited role?

[Ryan Hollins]

Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine coming back for a full season, you know, coming back for a two or three month stretch run to go win another super bowl, maybe.

[Rachel Nichols]

His teammates say it's funny some of the quotes you and I have thought maybe he'll come in late is teammate quotes over the last couple days have been like, hey, I know him. If he, he's going to want to be here for the whole thing or not. So right now, at least it sounds like he's talking about the whole season as a possibility.

[Ryan Hollins]

Now I got to ask Rachel. So this is a team that is the super bowl favorites.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yes.

[Ryan Hollins]

They got the defending mvp.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yes.

[Ryan Hollins]

They got Miles Garrett, Trent mc. There's so many Rams player storylines.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yes.

[Ryan Hollins]

That are out there. Puka Nakua, I mean, you know, he had a rough off season. Why is there so much focus on Aaron Donald? Someone who's not even there. Are they fine with this Aaron Donald? Because it's almost a distraction. It's like, hey, media, let's talk about Aaron Donald. Let's not talk about, I don't know, how's Matt Stafford feeling? Remember last year at this time? It was like, is he gonna even

[Rachel Nichols]

return back his back?

[Ryan Hollins]

Where's Puka Nakua? He wants a contract. He was in rehab. Like, what's going on with Puka? That to me is a month. Those are my much bigger stories than someone who's not even there but is posting workout videos.

[Rachel Nichols]

I don't know. You're talking about a real fan favorite in Aaron Donald, someone who's meant a lot to the franchise. I think it's fascinating. And we're also in an age. Look, we've been talking about this for the last couple of weeks. We talked about it with Messi, we're talking about it with LeBron. We're in an age where great athletes careers are getting extended so much further than we've seen. And we've seen guys retire and come back. Remember Rob Gronkowski missed two seasons Came back. Wonderful Super Bowl. We saw Jason Whitten miss one season, came back. But tight end is a very different position, of course, than defensive tackle. I don't know. I think it's just a fascinating look at what the human body can do. We're all aging Jason, and the idea that someone who was considered maybe past it or retired could come back. It's an intriguing storyline. I don't know. I like it. I like the idea, by the way. I looked it up. In his 10 year career, Want to guess how many games Aaron Donald missed due to injury?

[Ryan Hollins]

Since you asked, I'll go 0.

[Rachel Nichols]

6.

[Ryan Hollins]

6. Okay.

[Rachel Nichols]

So I think he's pretty tough, pretty durable.

[Ryan Hollins]

He's a tough guy, obviously. Yes.

[Rachel Nichols]

I'm gonna say, all right, let's go on to the Broncos because as we know, they lost to the Patriots in the AFC championships. But many people think if not for Bo Nix, if not for Bo Nix's ankle, man, they would have done it. He had cleanup surgery on that ankle in April. He is ready to go for training camp. Denver already talking about, we want to get back there. We want to make a it right this time. Get back to this, go to the Super Bowl. And at a charity event on Thursday, star pass rusher Nick Bonito said the team is quote, champing it. The bit to get the pads back on. Excellent grammar use there, by the way. It is champing, not chomping. Good job out of Nick. What, what do you think there? Because the schedule is brutal and I said earlier in the show, I hate when we depend on the schedule so much as a crutch of like, is this team going to be good or not? But look at the first game, games, six games there. This is, this is rough. What do you expect here?

[Ryan Hollins]

Losses? Any of them? Schleris was on earlier and you know, he expressed some of the same concerns about Bo Nicks that I think you and I have. And again, it's not like he's chopped liver, but again, if you're ranking quarterbacks in the NFL, I don't think he's top 15. I don't even know if he's top 20.

[Rachel Nichols]

Rachel, last year it was the defense, right? Yeah, I think it was like 68. Is it 68 sacks for the season on that team? That's insane. So obviously we've seen one side of the ball carry a team as long as a guy is able to follow the script. I mean, Trent Duo won a Super bowl that way. But I, I just, the schedule is really, really tough and I want to Give a kudos out here to our producers and research staff. This is amazing. So of course, as we know, The Broncos were 14 and three last season. The last five years, teams added a 14 win place plus season. Not a single team, not one in five years has had a better or even as good season. The year after, we've had nine, nine less wins, six less wins, three less wins, five less wins, three less wins, three less wins. Nobody has come even close to the season they had the year before. So history not on the Broncos side either.

[Ryan Hollins]

Sounds like a. A sell of the Denver Broncos. I like it. All right, Rachel with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the hurt word line news. So I don't know if this caught Rachel off guard, but I was kind of sort of stunned. Tony Jones came on earlier and said of all the players who was going to take a step back on the Sixers because you can't have four guys with that kind of usage rate. He said LeBron is probably going to be the guy. Take a listen.

[Jason McIntyre]

I think it was going to be LeBron James. Miami, there was, you know, three in Cleveland, there was three in Los Angeles, there was two.

[Rich Covino]

There are five here.

[Jason McIntyre]

Number one, my prediction, my thought is that this is going to be the first time in LeBron's NBA career that he does not average 20 points per game. For this to work, for this to, for the Sixers to hit their ceiling, they're going to have to figure, figure it out in terms of chemistry and in terms of usage.

[Ryan Hollins]

So that's kind of an interesting take. I think someone else, Rachel, I don't remember who was on last week and said something similar.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, I mean, it's kind of obvious. I mean, look, we added up the usage figures of all of that starting five, how they played last year. It adds up to 140%. There's only one basketball. There is not 1.4 basketballs. And LeBron, when he made his statement about why he picked Philadelphia, one of the first words he used, one of the very first words he used was sacrifice. So I think LeBron knows in making this choice, he is going to have to take a step back. The question to me, Jason, and is less about is LeBron willing or able or going to have to take a step back? What about the other guys on that team who didn't voluntarily walk into this situation? We know Maxey was on the phone with him trying to get him to come. We know Joel Embiid was on the phone with him trying to get him to come. We did not hear Tael. Now, this didn't mean it didn't happen. We did not hear that Jaylen Brown was on the phone with him, trying to get him to come. And Jaylen Brown, as we know, did so well last year when he had his hands in the ball almost all of the time. I. LeBron taking a step back isn't the only thing that's going to have to happen here. Who do you think else is going to have to take a step back?

[Ryan Hollins]

Well, I don't. I know this is going to sound crazy. I don't think LeBron should have to. He's got proof of concept. When everything revolves around me, we win. I think Joel Embiid certainly needs to have, like, a reality check, bro. I'm sorry. You have never gotten it done. You're never healthy. You need to fall in line. Rachel, if we asked 50 people who follow the NBA, give me the four best players in order on the Sixers, I guarantee you there's barely consensus. It is like I might lean Maxi over Brown as 1, 2. But how is LeBron 3? Embiid for me is definitely 4.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, the key to me, the key is not just how much are you shooting, you know, his point totals going down like Toby talked about, Tony talked about, but the idea of who's touching the ball when it's when guys don't even get their hands on the ball and they go up and down and up and down and they have to work and they have to scrape and they work on defense, that's where they start to just sort of fall back and lose interest. LeBron, if they use him in that point forward role that we expect, he at least will have, you know, the ball going through his hands. He's such an adept pastor, so smart on the court. So I think it's going to be easier for him to see his scoring go down. To your point, Joel Embiid, he's used to playing the way he plays, and his speed is so different from the rest of these guys. LeBron's in great shape for his age. He can absolutely still motor up and down the court. Joel is the one that's going to really have to figure out how he fits into the pace that this team is going to need to play at to maximize their advantages.

[Ryan Hollins]

I think I saw a stat that in fast break points last year, LeBron was one and Tyrese Maxey was like two or Edge cob was nine, something like that. Embiid is slow.

[Rachel Nichols]

It's not. Not on the top 10 of that list.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Ryan Hollins]

So the other thing. And I haven't heard anybody talk about this, maybe it's a topic for tomorrow. So one of the reasons the Celtics traded Jaylen Brown is because they didn't think they could afford to pay him the next contract.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yes.

[Ryan Hollins]

Jaylen Brown's in line for a massive contract.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yes.

[Ryan Hollins]

Rachel, if he steps back and his numbers are depressed and he's not all NBA, anybody paying him that 65 mil or whatever the ridiculous number is.

[Rachel Nichols]

Absolutely.

[Ryan Hollins]

And I wonder, Jaylen Brown, is he going to. Does that creep into your head?

[Rachel Nichols]

I mean, look, he's already won a title. He's already won finals mvp. So it's not one of those things where you say to guys sometimes like, hey, man, sacrifice a little bit. It's gonna be worth it. Even if you don't get as big a contract, you're gonna finally win that ring. He's done all of that already, and he seems to be at a point where he wants to establish himself more firmly than he already is as a top five, top ten player. Wherever you put him. He's felt very slighted by the way these trade discussions went and how people saying analytically he's what, the seventh best player in a team or the 40th best player in the league or whatever it was. I think it is a tricky situation. Nick Nurse is a great people person. It is a big challenge.

[Ryan Hollins]

Yeah, this is. This is going to be tricky. And I. Fortunately, we're going to talk about it a lot. Much easier than if he went to Golden State or Miami. This is fodder. You're right. Forgot Jalen Brown was the seventh best Celtic according to some stat. Anyways, Rachel and I survived Monday. We're back tomorrow, probably.

[Rich Covino]

If you're spending time outside, it's important to know the potential risks of skin cancer. Non melanoma skin cancers or nms, including basal cell carcinoma and cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma are common in the US and can become advanced and harder to treat if left undetected. Our sponsor, Regeneron, is raising awareness about advanced NMSCs. Learn more and take the pledge to see a dermatologist [e-mail] Every day, American heroes put it all on the line to protect our freedoms, communities and families. And behind every folded flag and retired uniform is a family that carries the weight their sacrifice. Folds of Honor steps in with educational scholarships for spouses and children of fallen or disabled military service members and first responders. The mission is life changing and monthly donations make it possible. Become a donor [e-mail] to help meet their sacrifice with hope. This episode brought to you by Verizon Business the World cup from FIFA isn't just the biggest ever, it's also the most technologically complex. 104 matches, 16 stadiums, 3 countries. But for Verizon Business, that's another day. With private 5G networks in every stadium, more than 80,000 miles of fiber, end to end security, Verizon business is powering FIFA's World Cup. If Verizon Business can do that, imagine what they can do for your business. Visit verizon.com powering FIFAWorld cup now to learn more. I'm U.S. transportation Secretary Sean Duffy. We all get distracted when we drive, whether it's from our phones or kids in the backseat bickering. But how we handle these distractions can be a matter of life or death. Before you get on the road for your next road trip, please put your phones on silent and take a mental note to focus on driving.

[Jason McIntyre]

Paid for by NHTSA this is an iHeart podcast.

[Ryan Hollins]

Guaranteed human.