THE HERD - Hour 3 - Taking a look at Drake Maye and Sam Darnold

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Hour 3 – Taking a Look at Drake Maye and Sam Darnold
Episode Date: February 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

This hour of The Herd centers on in-depth analysis of two of the NFL’s most talked-about quarterbacks: Drake Maye and Sam Darnold. Colin Cowherd is joined by Steelers All-Pro Cam Heyward for an honest conversation about leadership, coaching, and the evolution of the league, while quarterback consultant Jordan Palmer provides expert insights into the developmental journeys, mental makeup, and technical improvements of both Maye and Darnold. The episode also touches on relevant NFL coaching changes, team progressions, and breaks down NBA trade developments.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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Cam Heyward: Leadership, Coaching, and NFL Observations

(02:42 – 10:56)

On Mike Tomlin’s Coaching Style & Tenure

• Tomlin’s Influence: Heyward praises Tomlin’s openness and honesty, stressing that Tomlin always “makes himself available to discuss your problems” even if he disagrees, and that “there are no shortcuts in our league and preparing the right way.”

  “The one thing I loved about Mike was just his honesty to the game, understanding that there are no shortcuts in our league and preparing the right way.” — Cam Heyward (04:11)

• Longevity & Burnout: Cowherd and Heyward discuss the argument for and against long coaching tenures, referencing how Tomlin and other coaches (like Belichick) seem “happier” after stepping back.

  “There is an argument … maybe it was better for Mike to take a deep breath and some time off.” — Colin Cowherd (04:37)

Facing Drake Maye and Sam Darnold

• Seattle (Darnold): Heyward credits Seattle’s resiliency after mistakes, specifically how they “played through emotions” and adjusted during games. He notes their defensive front (Leonard Williams, Byron Young) is key for their consistent wins.

  “They can actually bounce back from situations that were a little bit catastrophic in our game early and then really capitalized on us in the second half.” — Cam Heyward (06:45)

• New England (Maye): He recalls how the Patriots’ offense “unraveled” earlier in the season but highlights Maye’s growth, saying the team “battle[d] back and become just a better unit on both sides of the ball.”

  “[Drake Maye is] playing another level. When we played him the first time, our big thing was we got to get turnovers … They really stabilized that.” — Cam Heyward (08:12)

Steelers’ Offense, New Coach, and Aaron Rodgers' Impact

• On New Coach Mike McCarthy: Heyward looks to improvements, especially with the run game (Kenneth Gainwell, Jaylen Warren) and DK Metcalf’s usage:

  “Look for DK Metcalf to have a lot more in his route tree, a lot more favorable matchups … Let’s give him the ball in space.” (09:17)

• On Aaron Rodgers in Pittsburgh: Rodgers’ leadership and camaraderie elevated the team, and Heyward reveals both on-field professionalism and behind-the-scenes humor.

  “He’s special and I don’t think he gets enough credit as a teammate … but he is a great guy for the locker room.” (10:16)

What Drives a Veteran NFL Star?

• Legacy & Mentorship: At this point in his career, Heyward is focused on “trying to win a Super Bowl” and teaching younger players, showing a drive for both personal achievement and legacy-building.

  “I feel like I still have more work to do on the field, off the field, and then, you know, continue to teach the younger guys …” (16:05)

Charity Work

• Heyward discusses his involvement with the American Cancer Society, motivated by family experiences with cancer.

  “Being able to spearhead and … save a lot of people’s lives and help a lot of people along the way.” (16:35)

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NFL Coaching Trends & Seattle Seahawks Plateau

(17:29 – 20:48)

Mike McDonald’s Coaching Tree and Seattle’s Future

• The hosts praise McDonald’s adoption of Harbaugh's principles and his skill at strengthening Seattle’s defense, elevating the team significantly.

  “When you watch how hard Seattle plays, that’s the first thing I look at. They play hard. The second thing is they don’t give up cheap touchdowns.” — Colin Cowherd (18:36)

• With John Schneider, Mike McDonald, and Sam Darnold in place, Cowherd sees Seattle as a “double-digit win team,” but notes the difficulty in drafting late and the challenge against NFC West rivals.

  “You can see the runway for Seattle and you’re like, oh, this is going to be a topic for two, three years now.” — Colin Cowherd (19:57)

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NBA Trade Deadline Reactions

(20:51 – 24:52)

James Harden & Jaren Jackson Trades

• The hosts discuss the potential move of James Harden to Cleveland and the hall-of-fame career complicated by questions of team impact and defense.

  “James Harden is known for the step back and nightclubs. Am I wrong?” — Colin Cowherd (22:17)

• They break down a major trade sending Jaren Jackson to Utah, moving the Jazz into the playoff conversation.

  “Utah’s got four really good players. That feels like a playoff team.” — Colin Cowherd (23:15)

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Quarterback Deep Dive: Sam Darnold, Drake Maye & Fernando Mendoza

(29:05 – 39:53)

Jordan Palmer on Sam Darnold’s Path

• Early Development: Palmer first met Darnold at 14, noting his transformation from “redheaded, freckled … buck teeth” kid to an elite quarterback. The early adversity—being passed over for a starting job at USC—instilled resilience and preparation habits.

  “Watching him handle that and grow through that and channel the frustration of not being named the starter but being ready, I think really laid the groundwork for a lot of these difficult situations that he’s been in …” — Jordan Palmer (31:23)

• Technical Evolution: Palmer describes off-season programs and customized drills (like using a golf club for peripheral vision and alignment) that directly addressed game-tape flaws, leading to measurable improvements.

  “[After an intervention on his mechanics] Since then, he has not missed one to his right behind a guy … you can press delete on a future 24.6% of your misses in a contract year on a Super Bowl run.” — Jordan Palmer (33:17)

Jordan Palmer on Drake Maye’s Growth

• Personality/Intangibles: Maye, described as a “good old boy country cool,” remains humble, highly coachable, and unphased by fame—traits credited to his family and upbringing.

  “He’s one of those guys like Sam that just not going to be any different than he always was.” — Jordan Palmer (34:42)

• Positional Evolution: Palmer notes Maye’s trajectory is similar to Josh Allen’s, emphasizing support systems like veteran receivers and tight ends and defensive-minded coaches:

  “A run game to complement … not asking you to be the team leader as a young guy. Just focus on [being the] quarterback.” — Jordan Palmer (36:39)

Fernando Mendoza: Another Franchise QB?

• Palmer likens his mobility and mindset to Alex Smith, highlighting Mendoza’s high-pressure performance and authenticity, which he says are essential for emerging as a franchise quarterback—especially in Vegas under Tom Brady’s influence.

  “He is just so who he is and so comfortable in who he is … I think this guy is perfect for what they’re trying to do in Vegas and whatever role Brady plays in that.” — Jordan Palmer (39:19)

On Identifying QB Greatness Early

• Cowherd emphasizes how the “great ones” are often evident by age 13 or 14, but notes that most prodigies don’t pan out—a point both he and his cohost agree on.

  “By and large the great ones, 12, 13 years old, 14 years old, you can see it, you can see it at a camp.” — Colin Cowherd (40:07)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Mike Tomlin’s coaching:

  “Mike is very approachable … he makes himself available to discuss your problems … but he makes the team first.” — Cam Heyward (03:50)

• Darnold’s off-field preparation breakthrough:

  “We addressed the mechanical issue … Since then, he has not missed one to his right behind a guy … you can press delete on a future 24.6% of your misses in a contract year on a Super Bowl run.” — Jordan Palmer (33:17)

• On Drake Maye’s personality:

  "Personality wise, he’s a combination of like Philip Rivers, just good old boy country cool. What you see is what you get." — Jordan Palmer (34:33)

• On Fernando Mendoza:

  “He is just so who he is and so comfortable in who he is. … the thing that cannot change about him is this guy is so pure.” — Jordan Palmer (39:13)

• On Sam Darnold’s rise:

  “He rattled off eight or nine straight, Rose Bowl MVP, beat Penn State on fourth down and kind of became Sam Darnold.” — Jordan Palmer (30:36)

• The reality of NFL prodigies:

  "You don’t expect them to continue on that track. A lot of the young prodigies go sideways." — Jason McIntyre (40:35)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:42 — Cam Heyward joins to discuss leadership, Tomlin, and team culture
• 06:43 — Heyward breaks down playing against Seattle (Darnold) and New England (Maye)
• 09:08 — Heyward on Steelers' new offense and Aaron Rodgers' impact
• 16:05 — Heyward on legacy and mentorship
• 17:44 — Mike McDonald’s influence and Seahawks’ coaching discussion
• 20:51 — NBA trade deadline, Harden/Garland and Jaren Jackson trades
• 29:05 — Jordan Palmer joins: Darnold’s development and technical corrections
• 34:09 — Drake Maye: strengths, growth, and Josh Allen parallels
• 37:35 — Fernando Mendoza as a franchise QB
• 40:07 — Identifying great quarterbacks in their early teens

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Conclusion

This episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd showcases the layers of quarterback development, from youth to the pros, with a look at the personalities and evolving strategies behind NFL and NBA leadership. The conversations with Cam Heyward and Jordan Palmer are rich with technical nuance, vivid anecdotes, and practical takeaways on identifying, nurturing, and sustaining greatness at the elite level of American sports.

Transcript

[Narrator/Promoter]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Stugots (Tony Stugotz)]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Narrator/Promoter]

What if mind control is real?

[Jordan Palmer]

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

[Narrator/Promoter]

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

[Jordan Palmer]

When you look at your car, you're.

[Stugots (Tony Stugotz)]

Going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

[Narrator/Promoter]

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

[Jordan Palmer]

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

[Narrator/Promoter]

Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious mind games. A new podcast exploring nlp, AKA Neuro linguistic programming. Is it a self help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Colin Cowherd]

Thanks for listening to the Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

[Cam Heyward]

Now, let's get this party started.

[Jordan Palmer]

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.

[Colin Cowherd]

One of the things I always look at with a veteran NFL player, has he ever been a team captain? That tells you a lot about the guy. Cam Hayward has been a team captain for the Steelers for 11 years. He's going to be a first ballot hall of famer, six time all pro, 15 years, same team. And he is joining us at the Super Bowl. You know, it's, I asked you off air, I said, 15 years in the league. What do you feel like when you wake up in the morning and tell the audience what your answer was?

[Cam Heyward]

It feels like 15 years have passed.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, you have Mike Tomlin's interesting because Emmanuel Sanders, I think it was, was on my show a couple of weeks ago and he said, you can talk about the coach. He goes, mike Tomlin changed me. The guy, like, what to do with my money. When I came into the league, I was, I didn't know anything. And you had a 15 year relationship with Mike. Now it's not all good. I mean, it can't be. There's got to be disagreements. But tell me about Mike, the guy that I don't see.

[Cam Heyward]

Mike is very approachable in voicing, like anything to him. He might not agree with you and he might have a different way of seeing it, but he makes himself available to discuss your problems. He's able to, you know, cut past a lot of the crap and say, like, yeah, that's great, but we're going to go in a different direction or this is what we have to do forward, have to put the team first. The one thing I loved about Mike was just his honesty to the game, understanding that there are no shortcuts in our league and preparing the right way.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I've seen him on two interviews since he coached the Steelers and he's so happy and funny. And I'm like, the NFL has a way of making people, you know, I mean, you watch Belichick when he left New England. I watched him on espn. He's cracking jokes, he's having a good time. There is an argument and I, and I said this. I can think Mike's a hall of Famer, but I do think coaches have a lifespan in, in a, in a room. Is there not an argument? Like, listen, when you spend that much time with one team Maybe it was better for Mike to take a deep breath and some time off. Is that fair?

[Cam Heyward]

Well, it's definitely fair. I think the first part of what you said, he's definitely got the glow of going into an off season, not having the pressure in the weight of having a team to prepare for. But he also gets to, you know, spend some time with his family. I think I was just texting him this morning talking about his daughter killing it at Georgia in gymnastics. But there, as much as there can't be a long shelf life, I don't think we provide coaches enough time to actually find out if they're a good coach or not. There's a lot of hit or miss and, you know, after a year or two, it's, hey, we gotta bounce you because we really want to try out something new. What Mike has been able to accomplish. I know he only has one super bowl, but it's a lot more than what any other coach can say. And he's the cream of the crop. I think every year you're always going to wonder, is Mike Tomlin coming out of retirement? Because he was just that good of a coach.

[Colin Cowherd]

So Seattle, New England, rare position. You guys really beat up Drake May, you had multiple sacks. He really struggled. Probably his worst game. Seattle came out in the second half and took it to you. So there's a lot of similarities between the two. I think the weakness of both the Seahawks, Patriots, probably the O line is not great. And I do think both are young, good, mobile quarterbacks, defensive coaches, there's talent all over the field, especially on the defensive side. Let's first talk about Seattle. When you guys played them, it was kind of an eye opening result. We all kind of went, oh, oh, wait a minute, this Darnold thing may work. When that game was over, what was your interpretation of Seattle?

[Cam Heyward]

I thought they played through emotions. You know, they can actually bounce back from situations that were a little bit catastrophic in our game early and then really capitalized on us in the second half. I know we had a big turnover at half in our game, but, you know, they were able to, you know, keep drives alive. Even when I think we had a big play, I think I tipped the ball and then Nick Herbig picked it off. They were able to bounce back from that and you know, their defense is really good. You got Leonard Williams, you got Byron Young up front, and if they have a good game, usually they're win the game.

[Colin Cowherd]

Now New England was different. They had a lot of new faces, free agents, five rookies playing, and to Be honest with you, it unraveled. It felt like they got a little. I mean, that's what my interpretation. Watching it was. Cam, you got into their head. You kind of intimidated them. You. You made Drake May play faster than he was comfortable playing. So I imagine you came out of that game and you're. Are you surprised today there in the Super Bowl?

[Cam Heyward]

I think it's indicative that you talk about how they started and then where they finished, because when they first got into the league this year, there were a lot of questions about Drake May, and you just watch their team battle back and become just a better unit on both sides of the ball. You got Milton Williams and you've got Christian Barmore, who dealt with a lot of injuries last year.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Cam Heyward]

But then this year, just. Just a different player. And I think having those two stalwarts on the D line are great, but Drake May is playing another level. When we played him the first time, our big thing was we got to get turnovers from Drake May and their running backs, and they really stabilized that in having Trayvon as a running back and Drake May throwing the ball downfield.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

So Mike McCarthy is the new head coach. I had said on the air, I think he's the offensive Mike Tomlin, and immediately he's already made upgrades to the staff, or at least upgrades, in his opinion, to the staff. And I. And I. And I've criticized Pittsburgh through the years. I've said, listen, the rules now favor offense, that you got to be able to consistently run the ball. That's the reality of this league. And Pittsburgh for seven years has struggled to identify a consistent run game. That's not a criticism, that's data. I do think Mike makes you a little more current offensively. What are your expectations?

[Cam Heyward]

I think you look at what our offense was this year, and you say you have a 1, 1, 2 punch in the running game between Kenneth Gainwell and Jayla Warren.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yep.

[Cam Heyward]

They've done a really good job. And I thought it was a step up from last year. I look for that office to just keep growing. You look for Jalen Warren and Kenneth Gainwell to have more touches, and you look for DK Metcalf to have a lot more in his route tree, a lot more favorable matchups where he's not just stuck on a number one corner. Let's mix it around. Let's give him the ball in space. Because when he has the ball in space, if you look at that Ireland game where they have the clip of Aaron throwing DK the ball, one of the prettiest balls we ever see. And him taking it 80 yards. That's. That's what you want DK doing?

[Colin Cowherd]

Were you. Aaron's an American iconic star. Pittsburgh is a hard working, no nonsense town. He appeared to really enjoy Pittsburgh, like from the outside. I'm like, oh, Aaron Fitz here, fine. I didn't know if he would take me through the year of Aaron in Pittsburgh and just the camaraderie, the locker room, the trips. How was it for you?

[Cam Heyward]

The camaraderie, the accountability and just the playmaking. He's special and I don't think you get enough. He gets enough credit as a teammate. The way he prepares, the way the group kind of rallies around him. We have a lot more fun with them that I can't talk about on air, but he is a great guy for the locker room. Uh, but he's also a big Nickelback fan. Shout out. Aaron. No, I'm just kidding. He hates Nickelback. I know, I know, but we, but you know, throughout the year, I thought he was always locked in, giving us the best chance to go forward and that's what you want from your quarterback.

[Colin Cowherd]

Be sure to catch live editions of.

[Jason McIntyre]

The Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am.

[Colin Cowherd]

Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and.

[Jason McIntyre]

The iHeartRadio app.

[Stugots (Tony Stugotz)]

Stigatz here. I have a podcast empire. It continues, continues to grow and I have brought it here to iHeart. I'm also doing a live radio show from 3 to 5pm Eastern because my wife wanted to kick me out of the house. It's called Stigots and company Live, which is available in podcast form right when the show finishes every single day. Some of the biggest names in sports, a lot of phone calls.

[Cam Heyward]

I love you guys show. It's one of my favorites.

[Stugots (Tony Stugotz)]

A lot of interaction. Guys not taking themselves to too seriously. Those are just some of the things that you can expect from Stugouts Co. And Stugots Co. Live. So listen to Stugots Co. Live and our original podcast. Please subscribe, rate and review Stugots Co. And God bless football. Taylor's livelihood depends on it. Do it today and you can check all of those out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right, two truths and a lie. Here we go. I went to college with college football coach Jim McElwaine. I began my broadcasting career doing play by play for the Las Vegas Stars and I've been a Verizon customer for 15 years. Okay, I lied. All three are true. Verizon isn't as expensive as you think. In fact, if you bring in your ATT or T Mobile bill to a Verizon store, they'll give you a better deal. That's right, a better deal on the best network with the most ways to save on plans, streaming and phone deals. So take that AT and T or T Mobile. Build to your local Verizon store today, get a better deal and start saving based on root metrics Best Overall Mobile Network Performance US Second Half 2025 all rights reserve must provide recent Consumer Mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply.

[Narrator/Promoter]

What if mind control is real?

[Jordan Palmer]

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

[Narrator/Promoter]

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

[Jordan Palmer]

When you look at your car, you're.

[Stugots (Tony Stugotz)]

Going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

[Narrator/Promoter]

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

[Jordan Palmer]

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

[Narrator/Promoter]

Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Nlp, AKA Neuro Linguistic Programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.

[Jordan Palmer]

It's about engineering consciousness.

[Narrator/Promoter]

Mind Games is the story of nlp, its crazy cast of disciples, and the fake doctor who invented it at a New Age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, NLP, might actually work. This is one. Listen to mind games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Stugots (Tony Stugotz)]

Stugatz Here I have a podcast empire. It continues to grow and I have brought it here to iHeart. I'm also doing a live radio show from 3 to 5pm Eastern because my wife wanted to kick me out of the house. It's called Stagats and Company Live, which is available in podcast form right when the show finishes every single day. Some of the biggest names in sports, a lot of phone calls.

[Cam Heyward]

I love you guys show. It's one of my favorites.

[Stugots (Tony Stugotz)]

A lot of interaction. Guys not taking themselves too seriously. Those are just some of the things that you could expect from Stugouts Co. And Stugouts Co. Live. So listen to Stugouts Co. Live and our original podcast. Please subscribe, rate and review Stug Co. And God bless football. Taylor's livelihood depends on it. Do it today and you can check all of those out on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jason McIntyre]

The Volkswagen Beetle started out as Hitler's dream car. It wound up as a beloved hippie icon and the bestselling car of all time. How did that happen? I'm Jacob Goldstein.

[Stugots (Tony Stugotz)]

And I'm Robert Smith. On business history, we tell the surprising stories behind the inventions and entrepreneurs that shaped our economy.

[Jason McIntyre]

And the story of the Beatle is truly surprising. It has so much in it. It has Nazis. It has the German economic miracle.

[Stugots (Tony Stugotz)]

And it features one of the most famous ads of all time, an ad that really redefined what advertising was in the United States.

[Jason McIntyre]

The calculation was that there was some number of Americans who were ready for something different, who were ready for something that was counter to the culture, if you will.

[Stugots (Tony Stugotz)]

Perfect timing.

[Jason McIntyre]

Decade of the 1960s.

[Stugots (Tony Stugotz)]

Listen to Business History on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and watch episodes on YouTube.

[Colin Cowherd]

You could call it a career, and you're a Hall of Famer. What drives you at this point.

[Cam Heyward]

One, I think, is trying to win a Super bowl, having the opportunity to compete. You know, that's why you play this game. Two, I think it's just installing my legacy further. I feel like I still have more work to do on the field, off the field, and then, you know, continue to teach the younger guys, continue to learn from them, and continue to just keep growing.

[Colin Cowherd]

You are working with the American Cancer Society. You've always been a charitable guy. Tell me about it.

[Cam Heyward]

Yeah, I had a chance to, you know, come on and be a co captain again with the American Cancer Society. You know, cancer is pretty prevalent in my family, with my dad suffering from a brain tumor. And I've just been very close because I've had grandparents or, you know, aunts and uncles that have done with breast cancer as well. And so being able to spearhead and, you know, find other ways where you get other people to donate and, you know, find a good charge to be able to save a lot of people's lives and help a lot of people along the way.

[Colin Cowherd]

Cam, you're a credit to the game, and I appreciate you stopping by the Herd.

[Cam Heyward]

Thank you for having me.

[Colin Cowherd]

You bet. Great. Great player. I mean, when you're. When you're. A captain 11 times in your career, that really speaks volumes of you as a guy. J. Mack with the news.

[Cam Heyward]

No, no, no.

[Colin Cowherd]

Turn on the news.

[Jason McIntyre]

This is the Herd line news. All right, let's continue super bowl coverage. Talking about Mike McDonald served under John Harbaugh in Baltimore. And McDonnell talked about how Harbaugh had an impact on him as a head coach.

[Jordan Palmer]

I don't think it's possible to overstate his influence.

[Colin Cowherd]

Influence on me. I love John Harbaugh.

[Jordan Palmer]

He's a, he's my, one of my biggest mentors. All those principles that are part of.

[Colin Cowherd]

His program that he's about as a person resonated with me and those are.

[Jordan Palmer]

A lot of the foundational principles that.

[Colin Cowherd]

We, that we brought to Seattle.

[Jordan Palmer]

And he's also, he's a great friend.

[Colin Cowherd]

He'S got great family. So I can't tell you how much I love him. Boy, McDonald has been a hit, hasn't he? Yeah, I mean he took that defense from Pete, moved it up about 10 spots and then he moved it up to number one or two in the league. And when you get a really good defensive coach like obviously Mike McDaniel goes to Miami and they got all sorts of motion in different sets, you can see it like defensively it's harder to see oh that, that that coach has principles. But when you watch how hard Seattle plays, that's the first thing I look at. They play hard. The second thing is they don't give up cheap touchdowns. That was always the great strength of Belichick. To score on New England, you had to drive the ball. They didn't give up freebies, they didn't miss assignments. Seattle doesn't miss a lot of assignments.

[Jason McIntyre]

Excellent team. He's had a great two year run. Look on the screen there. 24 wins over the last two seasons only behind McDermott and Sirianni. Like that's, that's pretty impressive for McDonald. I am curious. It's tough to ask this Colin, do you think there's a lot of wiggle room here for them to keep going and improve and be at 12 to 13, 14 with team member they lose their OC Kubiak. He's going to go coach.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, I think where they're at, you know, plateau gets kind of a bad rep. I think Seattle is going to be a double digit win team. If John Snyder, Mike McDonald and Sam Darnold are together, I think they're a double. But you and I know San Francisco and the Rams are a handful. So Darnold gets banged up and misses a month. So a lot of it comes down to is the quarterback, Charles Cross, the left tackle, Gray Zabel, the left side of the offensive line help. So they are really deep. They have no real holes. Their O line gets a bad rap. The left side of it's pretty good to me. So I don't know. I Look at them. That's the thing. I feel like with Minnesota firing their gm, it's not just that Sam was good this year. You can see the Runway for Seattle and you're like, oh, this is going to be a topic for two, three years now. We don't know beyond that. But Darnold's got two more years left on his deal and the cap hit remains incredibly Seahawk friendly, so. And John Snyder again now. But what's interesting, Jason, now you're drafting at the end of rounds. That's a hard go. Ask Kansas City and Buffalo. It gets real lean.

[Jason McIntyre]

A year ago, though, we were saying Eagles, oh my gosh, best roster in the league. They won with defense.

[Colin Cowherd]

We didn't like their coach, though.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, that's the thing. We'll see who they replace Kubiak with offensively after the Super Bowl. That'll be interesting because Darnold has had a pretty damn good year.

[Colin Cowherd]

And that's a good job now. Yes, that's a really good job.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, let's move to the NBA Colin. Trade deadline is Thursday at 3 o'. Clock. How about this? Reports indicate that the Clippers and Cavaliers are working toward a deal centering around James Harden and Darius Garland. Now, I wish you could channel the energy you had when I asked you about James Harden off air.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'd love to see him go to Cleveland.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, so he's 36 years old. Garland is only 26. It. On the surface, it feels like a weird swap. Cleveland clearly is in the luxury tax and they're not like a top three team in the east, so they don't really want to pay it. So I think they're looking to lessen the tax burden. But let's be real. James Harden is a Hall of Famer.

[Colin Cowherd]

One of the great scorers, winning player. Everybody kept getting. I mean, Daryl Mory just kept giving him guys and different coaches and different teammates.

[Jason McIntyre]

The superstar warriors with Duran and Curry, they're not beating.

[Colin Cowherd]

They gave him Westbrook in Houston, they give him Chris Paul and they gave him. I mean, this guy got more great teammates and solid coaches and everybody else is to blame.

[Jason McIntyre]

So what do you say?

[Colin Cowherd]

You're not.

[Jason McIntyre]

Not a hard.

[Colin Cowherd]

No. I mean, he'll make the hall of Fame, but there's a lot of guys in the hall that aren't winning.

[Jason McIntyre]

Players led the league in scoring.

[Colin Cowherd]

How about, what do you do in the defensive end?

[Jason McIntyre]

He was basically Michael Jordan before Michael Jordan got Phil Collins.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, he wasn't Phil Jackson. Michael Jordan was about winning. Michael Jordan was Not early.

[Jason McIntyre]

Not early.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, he was a great defensive player.

[Jason McIntyre]

He was. Harden does not play much defense.

[Colin Cowherd]

James Harden is known for the step back and nightclubs. Am I wrong? Cold blooded. Am I wrong?

[Jason McIntyre]

You're not wrong. Final story con. How about this? This just happened within the last 30 minutes. Big trade in the NBA. The Memphis Grizzlies who have been trying to move John Moran instead move Jaren Jackson, their other best player in a massive trade. He goes to the Utah Jazz. The Jazz, I guess with Dwyane Wade and company are ready to finally try to compete. The Jazz now have Jaren Jackson. They've got Lori Markanen, who I thought they would be trying to score. Keonte, Georgia, promising young player and Walker Kessler.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, no.

[Jason McIntyre]

They're going to be a good defensive team. They're going to be huge on the front line.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yep.

[Jason McIntyre]

The problem, and this is what's so tough, the west is loaded. So even with this Utah changes, are they a top six team in the West?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, I, I don't know. I'm hearing this for the first time, but Jaren Jackson's a good player.

[Jason McIntyre]

He's very good.

[Colin Cowherd]

Very good player. So now Utah's four very good players.

[Jason McIntyre]

Right.

[Colin Cowherd]

That feels like a playoff team.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. Lakers are gonna have to do something because I think the Lakers are not doing anything.

[Colin Cowherd]

Utah is better.

[Jason McIntyre]

They have more better players than the Lakers right now.

[Stugots (Tony Stugotz)]

They do, yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

Not high end like Luka's better than everybody.

[Colin Cowherd]

And their best players occasionally like to defend too.

[Jason McIntyre]

So this, this JAD team could be a problem. I don't know about this year. Memphis got three first round picks and players including Wall, but that's because Utah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Doesn'T need those picks now. Right.

[Jason McIntyre]

And these picks are going to be.

[Colin Cowherd]

Utah's got four really good players. Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

NBA's getting it. And this is what I love. Everybody says, oh well these trades that they're talking about, Giannis and these certain teams, it never works like this. This trade by the way, was not speculated. Nobody had the Utah Jazz being buyers of Jaren Jackson. So all remember Damian Lillard when he was getting traded? Oh, it's the Miami Heat, maybe Toronto. Nobody had him going to the Bucks. Giannis is going to a team that.

[Colin Cowherd]

Nobody'S talking about Now Utah, Utah's not. Now first of all, Utah is a. Not a very good defensive team as I make fun of the Lakers.

[Jason McIntyre]

They're not. But they will be with Jackson and, and Kessler on the back line.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, they're, they're not a factor now, but they're also young. So this gives them.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, I, I like how many years.

[Colin Cowherd]

Jaren Jackson been in the league?

[Jason McIntyre]

He's like 27, 26. 27 years old. Yeah, yeah, he's young.

[Colin Cowherd]

They've got four guys that you. You know, Laurie Markkanen has always talked about being traded, but he gives you strong player, man. Dude, he gives you like 20. What does he average? 23 a night? 24, nine?

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, something like that. And also, by the way, they have young Ace Bailey who's coming up.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, he is.

[Jason McIntyre]

He's got potential.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, no, he's got talent.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. Yeah. Give it a couple years. I like this trade for Utah. We'll see what's going on in Memphis.

[Colin Cowherd]

Interesting. J. Mac of the News.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, that's the news.

[Narrator/Promoter]

And thanks for stopping by the Herd.

[Colin Cowherd]

Herd Line News Sam Darnold, the Early Years next. Be sure to catch live editions of.

[Jason McIntyre]

The Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right, two truths in a lie. Here we go. I went to college with college football coach Jim McElwain. I began my broadcasting career doing play by play for the Las Vegas Stars. And I've been a Verizon customer for 15 years. Okay, I lied. All three are true. A Verizon isn't as expensive as you think. In fact, if you bring in your ATT or T mobile bill to a Verizon store, they'll give you a better deal. That's right, a better deal on the best network with the most ways to save on plans, streaming and phone deals. So take that AT and T or T mobile bill to your local Verizon store today. Get a better deal. Then start saving based on root metrics. Best overall Mobile Network Performance US Second Half 2025 all rights reserve must provide recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply.

[Narrator/Promoter]

What if mind control is real?

[Jordan Palmer]

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

[Narrator/Promoter]

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

[Jordan Palmer]

When you look at your car, you're.

[Stugots (Tony Stugotz)]

Going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

[Narrator/Promoter]

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

[Jordan Palmer]

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

[Narrator/Promoter]

Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Nlp, AKA Neuro Linguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.

[Jordan Palmer]

It's about engineering consciousness.

[Narrator/Promoter]

Mind games is the story of nlp. Its crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Stugots (Tony Stugotz)]

Stugatz Here I have a podcast empire. It continues to grow and I have brought it here to Ivar. I'm also doing a live radio show from 3 to 5pm Eastern because my wife wanted to kick me out of the house. It's called Stugac company Live, which is available in podcast form right when the show finishes every single day. Some of the biggest names in sports, a lot of phone calls.

[Cam Heyward]

I love you guys show. It's one of my favorites.

[Stugots (Tony Stugotz)]

A lot of interaction. Guys not taking themselves too seriously. Those are just some of the things that you can expect from Stugats Co. And Stugatson Co. Live. So listen to Stugats Co. Live and our original podcast. Please subscribe, rate and review Stugats Co. And God bless football. Taylor's livelihood depends on it. Do it today and you can check all of those out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jason McIntyre]

The Volkswagen Beetle started out as Hitler's dream car. It wound up as a beloved hippie icon and the best selling car of all time. How did that happen? I'm Jacob Goldstein.

[Stugots (Tony Stugotz)]

And I'm Robert Smith. On business history, we tell the surprising stories behind the inventions and entrepreneurs that shaped our economy.

[Jason McIntyre]

And the story of the Beetle is truly surprising. It has so much in it. It has Nazis, it has the German economic miracle.

[Stugots (Tony Stugotz)]

And it features one of the most famous ads of all time. An ad that really redefined what advertising was in the United States.

[Jason McIntyre]

The calculation was that there was some number of Americans who were ready for something different, who were ready for something that was counter to the culture, if you will.

[Stugots (Tony Stugotz)]

Perfect timing in this decade of the 1960s. Listen to Business History on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and watch episodes on YouTube.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, he's the founder of Quarterback Summit, a program that helps quarterbacks reach their potential. Played in the NFL for six years. The Bengals, the Jags, the Bears, the Titans and and love Chicago as much as I do now. His name is Jordan Palmer, quarterback consultant. And joining us also founded Thread Performance nutrition company that helps young athletes. So you've worked with Darnold since like high school. And I remember at usc I Think it was Sark, if I recall, he was a freshman and Sark said to me, he goes, this kid from Oceanside, he goes, he's really good, he's got to clean up some stuff. So go back to the very early Sam Darnold days. What was obvious, what needed work back then?

[Jordan Palmer]

Well, I mean I met him when he was 14 and honestly he was a redheaded, freckled, kind of had buck teeth. And I was throwing with my old high school coach. I was playing at the time and I was joking. But the high school coach I was throwing with coached Carson and I when we were little. So I was joking around, I'm like, hey, that little redhead kid looks dead on. Carson Palmer when he was that age. And we were laughing about it, fast forward two years and he's in the Elite 11. And that was when I was like, oh, that kid ended up being good. But really he redshirted his first year at SC and his, his second year's redshirt freshman year. He was in a quarterback competition with Max Brown, who does a great job with media right now, is a great dud. And Max was a grad senior. He could transfer if he didn't win the job. It was Clay Hilton was the head coach at the time and honestly Sam outperformed him. But they opened up week one at Jerry's World versus Bama. So if they would have started Sam week one, Max would have transferred and they would have had a red shirt freshman starter. I think they had a true freshman back up and a walk on behind him. So Sam didn't win the job. And I remember him calling me right after he got the news and being really upset and talking about, I remember that conversation about this is a rep and this is your first time having to stay ready when you red shirt, you don't have to stay ready. And they struggle. I think they went on three and when they pulled the trigger on Sam, you know, he rattled off eight or nine straight Rose bowl mvp, beat Penn State on fourth down and kind of became Sam Darnold. The suck for Sam campaign started on the Internet and watching him handle that and grow through that and channel the frustration of not being named the starter but being ready, I think really laid the groundwork for a lot of these difficult situations that he's been in the last decade and how well he's handled.

[Colin Cowherd]

Him when a guy, now Sam has had back to back MVP level years. If Sam called you, Jordan, and said, hey, hey, can I, can I come down for a couple days, what do you work on once a player's at a high level.

[Jordan Palmer]

That's a great question. I mean, it's different. Sam is Sam Burrow. And a lot of college guys are in this program. I operate in the space differently than anybody else in that everybody's on retainer for the year. So with Sam and all my clients, it's broken into quarterly. Phase one is whenever you start until spring. Phase two is spring ball or OTAs if you're in the NFL. Phase three is your best opportunity for growth. That's coming out of spring or OTAs and going into summer. And then phase four is the season. So in my office I've got a golf simulator that's essentially a content studio. And we break down practice in games and curate things on a weekly basis. So I, for the last, whatever, 20 weeks, or how many games he's played this year, we're pulling things from games and sometimes mirroring and dropping it into his folder. So he likes to, I think Tuesday nights watch these and essentially kind of you almost outsource your mechanics, which is becoming more normal. And so we're curating things that started on a basketball court in February. We typically go four to six weeks with him with no football. And for five years he's been learning a new offense, which means new footwork. So we curate that in phase one. We see what sticks in phase two, which is OTAs address things that didn't stick. Build the off season programming for phase three, and then in season it's about maintaining it and every now and then introducing a new idea. And so an example of this was last year in Minnesota. He's 5 and O on bye week and he's sitting on my couch right here. And we ran the numbers and determined that the largest grouping of Mrs. That he had was outbreaking routes to the right. And it was 24.6%, I believe. And so we addressed the mechanical issue. What he was doing mechanically and what he was doing from an alignment perspective that was causing those misses. 100% of those misses were a little bit behind the guy. Zero of them were out in front. So we gave him things to do around his house. A golf club between his arms, moving, seeing that golf club come into your peripheral vision, turned into tape on the left shoulder pad, building that peripheral vision. And it was all around front side alignment, drawing that shoulder closed. Since then, he has not missed one to his right behind a guy we're able to kind of press delete on a future 24.6% of your misses in a contract. Year on a Super bowl run.

[Colin Cowherd]

So Drake May more of an east coast guy. You didn't have the west coast connection to him initially when you. I, I feel like, not that he's a work in progress, I think he's a better quarterback than he was in September. But like when you see him just tv, what jumps out to you that you like about Drake May?

[Jordan Palmer]

Well, I mean I like everything about Drake May. I remember Josh McCown, I backed him up in Chicago who was done playing figuring out his next move and was telling me about this high school kid because he volunteer coached in high school and he coached Drake May's team. And then I saw Drake May at the elite 11. So I'd been hearing about him. But I like everything and I know that's a bad answer. Personality wise, he's a combination of like Philip Rivers, just good old boy country cool. What you see is what you get. But he's also really funny. Nothing will change about him and his personality as he makes more money and has more success. He's one of those guys like Sam that just not going to be any different than he always was. And it's well documented his older brothers holding him accountable and keeping him humble. But physically he's this new era of quarterback. I know there's been a lot of Josh Allen comparisons and I'm not comparing them, they have different resumes. But what he did in his second year, Josh did in his third, you know that jump Josh, it was that third year. And I think there's a couple of the same ingredients. One, just to say the name of the person, Stefan Diggs. I think a guy that can create separation that has some savviness to him and is a veteran. That was the same in Josh's year three, it was the same in Drake's year to a coordinator who knows what the quarterback struggles with. So they don't call that a whole lot. They don't ask them to do that a whole lot. With young guys a lot of times that's just fulfilled progressions and then knowing what the strong suit is, which is concepts where hey, if you get to number three and they're not there already be leaving the pocket and scheming guys open. Another thing is Dawson Knox was really good before Dalton Kincaid got there. For Josh Allen having a tight end who's always going to be in the right spot at the right time and is rangy and they have that in Hunter Henry.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yep.

[Jordan Palmer]

And and a run game to compliment and then the coordinator, you know, Brian Dable for Josh in year three, Josh McDaniels, year two here. So I think there's a lot of commonalities and both. The last thing I'd say is, you know, because of. It's a defensive head coach in both of those situations. We're not asking you to be the team leader as a young guy. Just. Just be the quarterback. Just focus on that. You don't need to be the vocal leader on the team. You can grow into that. So I see a lot of the similarities and. And Drake is kind of one of those guys who's been ready for the moment. And I thought this was always a win, not an if with Drake. May.

[Colin Cowherd]

I want to end it with this. I think it's important. Fernando Mendoza, I don't know what his comp is, but there was something about his gratitude and his humility. He's obviously a plus size. I watched him at Penn State, Miami game, Iowa game. In big moments, he really leaned in. You know, he wasn't overwhelmed. In big moments, pressure, big throws. What, what I'm interested in your evaluation. You probably haven't got a mile deep yet, but what. When you look at Fernando Mendoza, do you see another quarterback or do you just see a talented kid?

[Jordan Palmer]

No, I think he's a franchise guy. I think he's got a lot of success early, too. I'm not comparing these guys because somebody might hear this and go like, oh, you know, whatever they think. But really, Alex Smith, I don't know what Alex Smith's 40 time was, but I know he could run and he would take advantage of whatever was there in front of him. High processor, those things. So I don't like comp. So that's not a comp. But it's in terms of the mobility, I think it is. And you know, Alex Smith was the number one pick in the draft, but I think, you know, I've been around for Fernando a lot and really the early days of California and a lot of times he had to run around and, and make plays for that offense to be able to.

[Cam Heyward]

To win.

[Jordan Palmer]

And he had a couple of big wins. I remember specifically almost beating Florida State and he had like some bad calls, I think, and maybe a drop, but he made. They lost the game at Florida State. Cal. At Florida State. He lost that game, but made like four or five plays at the end where like he made the play. Something else happened. But I could see a lot of this at California with him. And then this is just right place, right time. One of the better stories ever in college football. But I Don't, I don't know what his numbers are and all that, but the percentage of times that he made the clutch play when it was needed is really, really high. And then just if you, if you look at his interviews, you know, the Internet in the comment section has a lot of different opinions on it. But like I've told him, like I told his dad and the thing that cannot change about him is this guy is so pure. He is just so who he is and so comfortable in who he is. And we've talked on and off camera about this over the years. Colin. I mean a lot of these guys are chameleons and they try and fit into the situation that they're in and I never see that work. I think this guy is perfect for what they're trying to do in Vegas and whatever role Brady plays in that. This is the perfect kind of quarterback to have kind of under the, the.

[Colin Cowherd]

Watchful eye of Tom Brady, the founder of Quarterback Summit. He also the founder of Thread Performance, a nutrition company that exists to help young athletes fulfill their physical and mental potential both on and off the field. Gives us insight. Sam Darnold, I think you said, red hair, buck teeth. It worked out well for Sam Darnold. Jordan, as always, great seeing you.

[Jordan Palmer]

Yeah, thanks for having me.

[Colin Cowherd]

You bet. Yeah. It's interesting about the chameleon part. There is, you know, you notice this, that Jordan went back early days. Mendoza, early days. Drake May, early days. Sam Darnold. That Jordan sees these guys and hears about them when they're 13, 14 years old. And I mean, I think that's, that's, I mean like his parents, you know, you're there to support your kid. But by and large the great ones, 12, 13 years old, 14 years old, you can see it, you can see it at a camp. You can see it somewhere around other kids.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's early man. 13, 14.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, that's when he saw Sam Darnold.

[Jason McIntyre]

And go, you know, you don't expect them to continue on that track. A lot of the young prodigies go sideways as we've seen throughout the years. Basketball.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, I don't think Darnold was a prodigy or Drake May, but Josh McCown's like, I got this 16 year old kid before any of us had heard about it. He's like this, this sophomore in high school. Keep your eye on this kid. Yeah. And you're right, a lot of them, most of them don't work.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Five star kit.

[Jason McIntyre]

It's tough to handle that, man, the pressure.

[Colin Cowherd]

Joel Lombardi cook.

[Narrator/Promoter]

Think Verizon is expensive? Think again. Anyone can bring their AT and T or T mobile bill to a Verizon store today and we'll give you a better deal. So bring us your bill. Walk in, run in, pogo sticking, teleport. If you can, ride on the back of a rollerblading yak or flying on the wings of a majestic falcon. Any way, you can bring your AT and T or T mobile bill to a Verizon store today and we'll give you a better deal on the best network based on RouteMetric's best overall mobile network performance. US 2nd half 2025 all rights preserved Must provide a very recent postpaid consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply. What if mind control is real?

[Jordan Palmer]

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

[Narrator/Promoter]

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

[Jordan Palmer]

When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed.

[Stugots (Tony Stugotz)]

Overwhelmed with such good feelings.

[Narrator/Promoter]

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

[Jordan Palmer]

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

[Narrator/Promoter]

Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious mind games. A new podcast exploring nlp, AKA Neuro Linguistic Programming. Is it a self help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Stugots (Tony Stugotz)]

Stigatz here. I have a podcast empire that I have brought here to iheart and I'm also hosting a daily live radio show from 3 to 5pm Eastern called Stagats Co. Live, which is available in podcast form right when the show finishes. Every single day. You can expect a lot of laughter, great guests, a ton of calls and a lot of fun. Listen to Stegots Co. Live at and our original podcast Stug Co. And God bless Football. And you can check all of those out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jordan Palmer]

Black History lives in our stories, our culture, and the conversations we still having today, this Black History Month. The podcast I didn't know. Maybe you didn't either. Digs into the moments, perspectives and experience. Experiences that don't always make the textbook.

[Colin Cowherd]

Let me tell you about Garrett Morgan.

[Jordan Palmer]

Bruh had to pretend he didn't even exist just to sell his own invention. Listen to I didn't know. Maybe you didn't either. From the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast or simply wherever you get your podcast.

[Narrator/Promoter]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.