THE HERD - Hour 3 - What should happen to Jim Harbaugh, strength of schedule is important, more on Shedeur Sanders being 3rd string, Urban Meyer

Summary

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The Herd with Colin Cowherd (Hour 3) — August 21, 2025

Main Theme: Quarterback Decisions, College Football’s Changing Landscape & Urban Meyer’s Insights

This episode revolves around the NFL’s evolving quarterback situations—specifically the Cleveland Browns’ surprising depth chart with Shedeur Sanders as third string—and the broader implications of coaching philosophies, college football’s rule changes, and the infamous Michigan scandal. Urban Meyer joins to offer coaching perspectives, and Greg Cosell provides QB analysis. The hosts also touch on major NFL and college football news, with engaging debates on how talent evaluation, program building, and rule changes are reshaping the game.

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1. Shedeur Sanders: Third String QB in Cleveland

Overview & Reactions

• Colin Cowherd opens with candid reflection, admitting he was wrong to rate Shedeur Sanders above Dylan Gabriel.

• The Cleveland Browns announced QB depth: Flacco starting, Dylan Gabriel second, Shedeur Sanders third (42:03).

  • “The league has spoken. It’s been three weeks in training camp. We got time, ex-career. …I think I overvalued Shedeur Sanders.” — Colin Cowherd (10:43)

• Key reasons discussed for Shedeur’s ranking:

  • NFL GMs and Head Coach Kevin Stefanski preferred Gabriel’s “consistency, accuracy, and quick decision-making” in the structured Browns system.
  • Shedeur’s improvisational style doesn’t fit Stefanski’s Shanahan-inspired offense, which values “running the play” over ad-libbing (12:48).
  • Greg Cosell points out Shedeur’s tendency to “drift or retreat in the pocket,” impacting scheme fit (44:46).

Notable Quotes

• “Coaches like high floor, low ceiling if they’re given an option. Without a star, it’s like… consistency is really appealing to offensive coaches.” — Dan Beyer (12:00)
• “Shador strength is kind of just making plays. …That’s not really what Stefanski is looking for, you know, in the way he’s judging his.” — Colin Cowherd (13:34)
• “What Gabriel is, is he’s essentially stylistically similar to a Tua Tagovailoa. Sanders is a little different player. …He tends to drift a little in the pocket.” — Greg Cosell (44:46)

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2. Guest: Urban Meyer on Sanders, Harbaugh & Changing College Football

QB Depth Chart Decisions

• Urban agrees the Browns picked Gabriel due to draft investment and coaching preferences; says if competition is close, coaches side with their guy, but “if Shedeur gets better… you could see that move happening.” (19:33)

The Jim Harbaugh/Michigan Scandal

• Urban refutes reports he called for Harbaugh’s NFL suspension, clarifies NCAA-NFL penalty history.
  • “No, I never said that. That was a typical media guy saying that.” — Urban Meyer (21:09)
• On sign stealing, Urban is unequivocal: it’s a “huge deal” if teams gain illegal competitive advantages with signal knowledge.
  • “Any advantage that’s gotten illegally, then that’s a major deal.” (22:30)

On College Football's Shift Toward Strength of Schedule

• Both Colin and Urban celebrate new rules to reward tough scheduling, hoping for less punishment for brave losses (23:53).
• Urban’s “play-in” proposal: favors cutting the playoff committee in favor of earned advancement on the field.
  • “So to put that in the hotel room, a bunch of people making decisions, who’s in and who’s out. I much rather come up with a system that… you get in and the most important people make that decision, the players. If you win, you’re in, if you lose, you’re out.” — Urban Meyer (26:12)

Talent & Transfers

• On Ohio State’s new QB, Julian Saying: reports of “Dwayne Haskins type arm action… great anticipation.”
• On massive transfer classes (e.g., Belichick’s 40 transfers): Urban admits, “How do you develop chemistry and culture… I have no idea.” (28:33)
• Jeremiah Smith (freshman WR): compares to Percy Harvin at Florida, emphasizes how “elite teammates” magnify young stars’ readiness (30:06).

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3. News and Analysis: Lamar Jackson, QB Development, Dodgers’ Woes

Lamar Jackson's Minor Injury (31:50)

• Dan and Colin agree: minor injuries are expected for mobile QBs, but caution that health in key games drastically impacts playoff seeding.

Anthony Richardson Benched, Daniel Jones Starts

• QB coach Cam Turner: “Consistency is just not where we wanted it to be.” (34:02)
• Colin reads this as pragmatic: “They just don’t think Anthony Richardson’s very good.”
• Dan reminds: only 1-2 QBs per class become legitimate franchise starters; misses are common even among early picks.

MLB: Dodgers’ Struggles

• Shohei Ohtani leaves after a comebacker; Dave Roberts and Colin discuss the Dodgers’ injuries and unpredictability, warning that “best roster” matters less if pitching is unhealthy come playoffs (36:31).

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4. Final Thoughts: QB Depth, The Reality of Sports Fandom, Chicago Bears' Prospects

Browns Depth Chart Reactions (42:03)

• Colin reads Ohio message boards, highlights emotional investment in QBs and how sports “aren’t just data or widgets—they’re attachments and hopes.”
• Predicts that, while Sanders fans are discouraged, NFL journeys ebb and flow—“it’s not the end of the road.”
• “The optimistic way to look at this [for Bears fans] is… There’s positive ways. Dallas is really bad. …But the over unders in Vegas, they make money on fans betting the over. So I think 9-8 is a …very realistic look.” — Colin Cowherd (49:19, 52:07)

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5. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You’re right or you’re learning.” — Colin Cowherd reflects on mistakes, citing Mark Cuban’s advice (06:10)
• “If you’re given an option, without a star, coaches like high floor, low ceiling.” — Dan Beyer (12:00)
• “Every NFL GM disagreed with me, and Kevin Stefanski… has spoken.” — Colin Cowherd (09:04)
• “The best player on your team …is the backup quarterback. Then he gets in, you’re like, what were we talking about?” — Dan Beyer (15:11)

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6. Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:13 – Colin admits misjudging Shedeur Sanders
• 09:06 – Greg Cosell on “scheme adaptability” and QB fit
• 12:00 – Why coaches prefer consistency, not flash
• 19:33 – Urban Meyer analyzes the Browns’ QB decision
• 21:09 – Meyer refutes Harbaugh-NFL suspension claims
• 22:30 – Meyer on why Michigan’s sign-stealing mattered
• 23:53 – College Football Playoff, strength of schedule debate
• 26:43 – Ohio State’s Julian Saying: early inside scouting
• 28:33 – Transfer portal chaos: building team culture
• 30:06 – Meyer on rare “NFL-ready” freshmen (Percy Harvin)
• 31:50 – NFL news: Lamar Jackson, QB injuries
• 34:02 – Anthony Richardson benched: developmental realities
• 36:31 – Dodgers’ playoff concerns
• 42:03 – Browns confirm: Sanders third string
• 44:40 – Cosell: Why Shedeur’s style doesn’t fit the Browns
• 49:19 – Bears’ schedule and fan optimism/predictions
• 52:07 – Realistic Chicago Bears outlook (9-8 prediction)

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Conclusion

This episode delivers an honest, opinionated breakdown of the dynamics guiding pro and college football—especially the ongoing quarterback carousel, changing evaluative criteria, and the tension between data-driven decision-making and the deeply personal nature of sports fandom. Insights from Urban Meyer and Greg Cosell offer depth on how coaching preferences, rule interpretations, and off-field developments increasingly shape the game’s future.

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Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Dan Beyer]

Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast.

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[Dan Beyer]

Now, let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. Last hour. Urban Meyer's gonna stop in. He likes Shador Sanders, too. We are live. We're in Chicago. It's the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. You know, it's an interesting thing that I've noticed this over the course of my life is that and I watch a lot of clips. John Business clips. Jeff Bezos constantly gives fascinating advice. I often share those with my management at my company, the volume. I'm sharing clips. And one of the things I have noticed over the course of my life, it can be Larry Ellison, the guys running Netflix. You're much better off just admitting you're wrong and moving on. In fact, when I started my company, I reached out to Mark Cuban, I reached out to another very, very successful business guy that owned a stake in Barstool, and I said, could you just give me one piece of advice? And Cuban and the other gentleman gave me the same piece of advice separately, which was don't fall in love with your idea. If you're right on something, double down. If you're wrong, own it and move off it. Stop trying to convince yourself my ideas are perfect. Jeff Bezos says this all the time. You should make changes every day to your company. You're not. Don't stop worrying about being right. Get it right. And I am clearly wrong. On Chador Sanders, the Cleveland Browns today, Kevin Stefanski, Shador fell to the fifth round and Shador was named as the number three quarterback. And I'm wrong on him. I thought he was. I looked at Dylan Gabriel and I thought Shedeur was bigger. I think that matters. I thought he moved better. I think that matters in 2025. And I thought he was more accurate when he was flushed out of the pocket, which in the NFL you're always flushed out of the pocket. And so I thought he was a better NFL. And he was very, very productive. Was Dylan, was Dylan Gabriel with great teammates. Shador was productive with a terrible O line and the worst running game in college football. So I looked at the two. And I'm like, Dylan Gabriel feel I said it before the draft. I felt Dylan Gabriel was a fourth or a fifth round pick and Shadow first was a mid second, late second round pick. I'm wrong. Every NFL GM disagreed with me and, and Kevin Stefanski, who won 11 games in 2023 with musical chairs at quarterbacks. And by the way, Shedeur and Dylan Gabriel were both productive. But the thing that impressed me is Shedeur had a higher completion percentage, had just as good a TD interception ratio, and average more passing yards per game at Colorado than Dylan Gabriel did at Oregon. And Oregon stacked with NFL talent. So my take now, obviously, you know, let's be honest about it. Dylan Gabriel's going to win more games. But they always say winning is not a quarterback stat. But in terms of completion percentage, td, interception, passing yards a game, Shador was better than Dylan and not even close the level of roster compensation at Colorado than Oregon, that is, that is chess and checkers. So I thought he was better. Listen, the Eagles, the Philadelphia Eagles, and this is why Howie Roseman to me is as good as any GM we've ever had in the NFL. Signed Carson Wentz to a huge contract. Wasn't long after it, they moved on. Sean McVay loved Jared Goff then he didn't. Guys, more than women, struggle admitting, yeah, I missed on that. I don't every Monday, calling right, calling wrong. I think my wife always says, you're either right or you're learning. You're right. Or you're like, oh, you got to learn in your mistakes. So, I mean, Microsoft's a great company. They missed on the iPhone, they missed on the phone. Completely missed. Steve Ballmer's brilliant, richest NBA owner missed on the phone. Nobody's perfect. Except anonymous trolls on the Internet. It's amazing how that works. They're brilliant. They're never wrong. So listen, the NFL's telling you Dylan's better, draft's telling you and the depth chart, you know, I looked at numbers with much less protection, run support, and I would say Dan Lanning, in my opinion, is a better coach than Deion Sanders. And his staff is excellent. Should have put up better numbers. So I was like, I don't know, he's taller, he moves better, he's accurate. What can I say? You know, I was eventually right on Sam Darnold, but I think I overvalued Shadow Sanders. And maybe I'm wrong on Caleb Williams, but a lot of people agree with me on that. I called my people in the NFL on Chidor and most of them were like, yeah, it's a bad quarterback class. All of them said this. Cam Ward is the best quarterback in the class. All of them said that. Nobody, nobody said that. My guys were very hit and miss on Jackson dart. One, a buddy of mine loved Jackson dart. We're no longer friends. No one, one, one person loved him. Other mixed. Shador was very. He ain't great, but he is probably a late first. It's a. Everybody needs quarterbacks. But I think now in hindsight, people were talking themselves into it because the quarterback position important. Everybody reaches on quarterback. But here's Greg Cosell earlier in our show on Shador Sanders, who was just named the backup to the backup in Cleveland.

[Greg Cosell]

The term that's used a lot within the NFL is scheme adaptability. Colin Coaches think on both sides of the ball in terms of how does a guy fit into my scheme? Can he run my scheme? You know, you know this. Coaches work 16 hours a day and they're putting in their scheme their game plan. It starts with OTAs. They want all this executed and when it's not executed, then it becomes a problem.

[Dan Beyer]

Yeah. And Shadour doesn't probably execute as well as Dylan Gabriel. I mean, Shadour won nine games last year, completed 74% of his throws, 37 TDs, 10 picks, 318 yards passing a game with a very, very meager offense outside of Travis Hunter. And Travis was returning kicks and cornerback, doing everything. So there you go. The NFL has spoken. I'm sure this is being received with nuance and contextualization in Ohio. They're probably going crazy. It was like the Tim Tebow stuff like Denver would have loved. They took him in the first round. They wanted Tebow to be great. Well, he won a playoff game. A lot of people do. A lot of people in one playoff game. There was no, I mean, Denver got Tim Tebow, didn't have to pay him forever, right? You, you would want the Tim Tebow thing to work. John Elway's like, nah, that's not going to work. Let's get Peyton Manning. So, yeah, I mean, it's just. John, I think I'm admitting now the league has spoken. Stefanski spoken. I overvalued Shadur Sanders.

[Colin Cowherd]

The league has spoken. It's been three weeks in training camp. I mean, we got, we got time, X career. I mean, Sam Darnold, you never know. Here's the thing, unlike most industries where people are very unemotional because you're dealing with widgets, you're dealing with Buildings. You're dealing with things that are not human beings. People will pivot fast in football and in pro sports in general. When you're my guy. And Dylan Gabriel was clearly Stefanski's guy. They drafted him the third round. Like that's, that's a pretty high pick. It's kind of in that, that weird zone. Not quite the starting quarterback, but someone I like more than to risk it to get to the third day of the draft. So he was Dylan Gabriel. If they're both healthy, there was nothing Shador Sanders was going to be able to do through a couple weeks. And I understand that, you know, the X Twitter social media thinks that Shador Sanders is Tom Brady because of a preseason game against plumbers and firemen. But the reality is that that gets overvalued with normal people, not in terms of the NFL circles and coaches. And at the end of the day, Dylan Gabriel was always going to be ahead of them if they were both healthy, at least going into the start of the season. And the reality too is they're all going to play this year. They're all going to play this year. And the regular season games matter infinitely more than anything that happens in August.

[Dan Beyer]

And again, it's what coach is like. You know, coaches like consistency of personality, of performance, of accuracy. And I could see Stefanski as a really smart guy saying, Dylan is runs the play, he's consistently accurate, he stays in the pocket, he gets rid of the ball more quickly, more often. Coaches love consistency. Coaches will. Coaches like high floor, low ceiling if they're given an option. Without a star, it's like, and you look at that room right now, quarterback room, there's no stars there. So I can see him just saying Flacco and Dylan Gabriel. Maybe there's moments where Shedeur is a little bit more fascinating, but consistency is really appealing to offensive coaches.

[Colin Cowherd]

Can we also acknowledge that Shador Sanders, the way he plays, you know, Stefanski runs a version of the Shanahan offense, timing based desean Watson, who was an ad lib playmaker even before he fell off a cliff athletically and as a talent, never fit the scheme. Remember, like they tried to adapt and it just did not work. Shador Sanders actually is much more tailored for a guy like an Andy Reid, a Sean McVay. Yeah, it is a little more open to running around and making plays. Yeah, you get with Kyle Shanahan, you get with lafleur Stefanski. You know, it's very, very, hey, one, two. We're seeing with Ben Johnson what he's Asking Caleb to do like, you can ad lib once or twice throughout the game, but the majority of these play calls, when it comes to passes, do.

[Dan Beyer]

What I tell you to do.

[Colin Cowherd]

And that Shador strength is kind of just making place. And that's what he did in the preseason game. So everyone freaked out that he's John elway or something. 2.0. It's like, guys, that's not really what Stefanski is looking for, you know, in the way he's judging his. So when I watch Dylan Gabriel, everyone's like, oh, he threw a pick six. I watch that. I'm like, I think he's doing a lot of the stuff that Stefanski is going to like.

[Dan Beyer]

Yeah. I remember talking to Chip Kelly about Geno Smith briefly, and he's like, oh, I like Geno. You know, Geno runs the play. If you can give him a run game. If you look at Geno Smith on play action, he really good. Like Geno Smith with a run game. Sam Darnold with a run game are really effective. They get reckless when they're pressured. But when he went to the Raiders, he likes Geno Smith because his offense and what he wants you to do, Geno can move just enough for Chip Kelly. It works in his system. He likes them as a fit.

[Colin Cowherd]

I do think these guys, and I don't think they're coaching and GM and for their job, they just got extensions. But, you know, Cleveland's a weird place. The owner has been, you know, quick to change his mind. This story, if these quarterbacks are awful, you know, Flacco gets injured. Kenny Pickett comes in, doesn't look good. Dylan Gabriel looks overmatched. It's going to get louder and louder and people are going to want to see Shador. Like you said@dog pound.com Roof, roof. You know, they're going to want to see the guy. So it's, It's. It's hard to slow that down, right? Everyone was on their side with desean Watson. Like, we can all see it. This, this one. The almost anticipation of his hope. Not seeing him play can create a craziness. We've seen it before with these. Sometimes the best player in your team is the backup quarterback. Then he gets in. You're like, what were we talking about?

[Dan Beyer]

Yeah. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. He's Mike Carmen. I'm Dan By. We have a fantasy football podcast called I want your flex. That's right, Dan.

[Colin Cowherd]

Every week we're going to scour the waiver wire to find the pickups to turbo boost your fantasy lineup Sits starts.

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[Colin Cowherd]

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Listen to I Want yout Flex with Mike Harmon and me, Dan byer on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts and wherever.

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[Dan Beyer]

Right, the big breaking news. Shadour Sanders is third string. Dylan Gabriel is second string. Kevin Stefanski, an offensive coach. He's a bright guy. That's what he's chosen. So let's go to Urban Meyer, who did plenty of Colorado games, three national titles, 17 seasons. Now Fox Sports, our analyst. All right, I was a shadow guy over a Dylan Gabriel guy. I watched Shador run for his life at Colorado and he was really productive. Are you surprised that Shador is backing up Dylan Gabriel?

[Urban Meyer]

I actually listened to your last segment and I agree with you that the coach of the Browns, you know, stepped out and said I'm going to pick this quarterback, Dylan Gabriel in the third round. And then by the way, Shador is still available, we'll take him. Unless it was obvious. I think that, you know, I think you're right. I think the, the coach of the Browns said this is I put my name on him and I'm going to give him an opportunity first. So it sounds to me like it was real close. I also heard that part of your comments. So if it's real close, they're going to go with the guy that they spent all the time evaluating, draft him. And, and they don't want to be wrong. But, but they also have to win. So if Shidor gets better and better, which I think we all agree he will at some point, you know, you could see that move happening.

[Dan Beyer]

I saw Michigan recently got some penalties and you and I probably see this differently. I, the way I look at college football is, is that it used to be the, the sin in college sports was buying a high school player. That was death penalty. It's over. I mean $100 handshake for a senior. You know, you get slap on the wrist. You can't buy a high schooler. Well, now that's, that's just a, it's a cottage industry. That's what you do, you buy high schoolers. So it's hard for me to get worked up. I don't even know what's illegal in college sports. I just don't get worked up over much. I know Connor. Stallions did something wrong. I know, but it bothers you more. You. There was a quote. I saw that you said that, you know, maybe Harbaugh should be suspended in the NFL. So clarify that. Where are you right now on Michigan, Harbaugh and what transpired?

[Urban Meyer]

Yeah, friends sent me that quote. I never said that. That was a typical media guy saying that. No, I, I, on the podcast we talked about the penalty and I brought up, I said, do you realize that when Jim Trestle was fired from Ohio State he was suspended, I want to say six games. He went on to be suspended by the Indianapolis Colts. Now did I say that, Jim? No, of course not. I didn't say that. And I actually even said that, you know, I don't think it will but I that out there because that's a fact. And it was made clear throughout the pro that the NFL wanted to at least respect the, the decisions made by the ncaa. So. No, I never answered your question. I never said that. But that's typical. Someone's going to put something a headline here. Colin and I are talking about. That was never said.

[Dan Beyer]

Okay. You know, it is interesting though. And again my take is, I mean you're buying high schoolers. I listen obviously if I know your signals, it's an advantage. But there is some, there is a little bit of a network. I watched the special on it where there is some scouting done. Like how egregious is it to you iPhone scouting, multiple iPhone stuff. How do you view that?

[Urban Meyer]

Well, very rarely do you like someone brought up the Reggie Bush thing, did that give USC a competitive advantage on the field? They brought up Jim Trestle situation. Did that give them a competitive advantage on the field? No, of course not. Guys were trading in memorabilia for tattoos. The thing that this is this and, and I've heard people say, oh come on, what's the big deal? If it wasn't a big deal, Colin, why would they risk their reputation or careers and 30 million dollar fine for the university or for the Wolverines? So it, I'll answer that question. It's a huge Deal. If the defensive players know run or pass, the amount of time, I would probably say at least 30 to 40 hours per week. The defensive players are trying to figure out from the stances of the offensive lineman, from the weight on their fingertips, just figuring out from the stance of the receivers is it run or pass? Is it that much of an advantage? I can't overemphasize. Of course it is. You have 50 to 55 year old men sitting in meeting rooms forever trying to find some kind of tip to give to their players. If it's just that simple, if it's a run or pass, now if you can know if it's right or left, that's a whole other animal. So to answer your question, any advantage that's gotten illegally, then that's a major deal.

[Dan Beyer]

So the college football I just saw this morning, they've made a tweak to it where strength of schedule is now going to matter more, which I'm a huge fan of. Incentivize more heavyweight matchups. And I said this last year, I said Ohio State losing at Austin the way they lost on the last play, controversial. I thought more of Ohio State than I did Oregon. I said all I knew is after that game if you can come down to a final play at Austin, the loudest stadium I've ever been with, with a great top six or seven program, you can win a natty. And I said after that loss they're going to play Oregon again, you watch and they're going to beat them. And they did. And my take is if Texas goes to Columbus here in a week and loses 34, 28, they're driving for the winning score and there's an interception. My take is I'm blown away by Texas if you can go to Ohio State. And so I love the idea of stop punishing college kids for losing a game against a great team. Your take on what the NCAA now is, is really pivoting to, which is we're not going to punish as much when you lose to good teams.

[Urban Meyer]

I hope that happens Colin. That's, that's supposed to been the rule since you know, I remember from the BCS era to the 14 college football playoff to the 12 team. So I, you know, I got to reread this thing because that's confusing to me. Strength of schedule has always been a big part of the equation that the committee is supposed to look at. So maybe there's some more. There's something type of analytics they're going to use for that. But I guess I'M confused. That's always been supposedly a part of what the committee looks at. I'm going to give you something, Colin. I think the committee needs to go away. I love these new proposals that are out there about teams play in the win. The Big Ten had one out there. I'm not sure it's still out there anymore. But a 4, 4, 2, 2, 1, which means you take the top six, 10 teams in the Big Ten and they earn it on the field. There's no committee. So one would play two in the Big Ten championship game, three would play five, four would play six and there's your four teams to go to the playoff. So I hope they're at some point and this is not against committee because I try to figure out who the best teams are. That's my job to watch the film. I'm wrong a lot of times.

[Dan Beyer]

Yeah.

[Urban Meyer]

Because, you know, there's so many variables involved. So to put that in the hotel room, a bunch of people making decisions, who's in and who's out. I much rather come up with a system that this is a play in tournament that you get in and the most important people make that decision, the players. If you win, you're in. If you lose, you're out.

[Dan Beyer]

So the Buckeyes have announced their starter. They said it was close. Julian saying, I've only seen YouTube stuff, I've only seen high schools. I don't, I don't, I don't know what he's going to be. What do you expect? What do you, what do you know? What do you hear on him?

[Urban Meyer]

I hear a lot. The mini walked on campus. There was comments made about Dwayne Haskins type arm action and this great release. The ball flies out of his hands. He's got great anticipation, accuracy. And then recently I heard a lot about his escapability, about to be able to keep plays alive. So everything I'm mentioning are just incredible attributes of a quarterback. So the interesting one is Keen Holtz fought his ass off, which, you know, I'm a fan of his and to see that. So they don't, you know, I hear people say if you don't have, you know, if you have two quarterbacks, you don't have one. I've always disagree with that. If you have two quarterbacks, you have two quarterbacks. And so I don't. I think at some point this will become a strength. This is going to be really interesting to watch in this game about the way two quarterback coaches who are head coaches manage two. First, because you can Say Arch Manning. Arch Manning is not much different than Julian saying, you know, he's not done a lot either. So you better protect these quarterbacks. That means don't have many balls down the middle of the field, work the outsides and, you know, give them a bunch of easy throws to start that game. Because it would be a mistake to just hand the ball to these guys and let them go play early in their careers like this.

[Dan Beyer]

So Belichick has 40 transfers. So I, I, I've said if I was a college football coach, I'd try to limit it to about 10. Sometimes you do need a slot corner and you don't have it. So. And Sark brought in 10 transfers. Mack Brown said, you know, it can be dicey. It's hard to create chemistry with a high school recruiting team. Not, you know, at Florida, you went before the nil. You get teams where the chemistry is an issue. To bring in 40 guys and try to build chemistry. How would you do it? I mean, how do you have 40 new faces and make it work in six months?

[Urban Meyer]

Well, some people have, and then some people failed miserable. You know, the recent one that failed miserable is the Florida State. They go from an undefeated team to a bunch of transfers and it didn't work out. But then you saw, you know, Michigan State had the lightning in the bottom of the one year and in Colorado brought in a, you know, a bunch of and turned around a really poor program. So I think 40 is a lot. To answer your question, how do you develop chemistry and culture on a team when you're getting them in June and July? I'm going to answer honestly, I have no idea. I don't know how you do that. Obviously, Coach Belichick's a smart guy and he's got a great staff around him. He's going to figure it out. But to answer, you asked me a point blank question. My answer is, I don't have any idea.

[Dan Beyer]

So Jeremiah Smith may be the most talented freshman I've ever seen in college football. I go back years and years. This is an old school name. I remember a guy, Pitt had a guy named Hugh Green years and years ago. I can remember watching him as an underclassman in college and thinking, man, he looks like a man. He's like 20 years old. Hugh Green, look it up. Is there. If I said I thought Jeremiah Smith looked like a pro, was there in all your years at Florida, all your years at Ohio State, Utah, Bowling Green, go through all of it, take out Jeremiah Smith. Was there ever a freshman that walked on to any of your program. Here he comes onto campus and you thought he probably could play in the NFL because I think Jeremiah Smith could play in the NFL today. Did you ever have one of those players?

[Urban Meyer]

I did. I had one Percy Harvin. He walked on campus and I've never ever seen anything like what he could do with his skill set. I, to this day, I still believe he's one of the greatest ever plays. So let me say this about Jeremiah. Jeremiah, too. And I'm going to do this on Big note. Big noon. He pretty. He had a great scenario last year. So an elite wide receiver's best friends are number one, a running quarterback, Will Howard. They had that. Number two, a strong run game. They had that with two terrific running backs. And number three, a strong, strong number two. That was a Mecca. All three of those guys are gone. You know, the, the running quarterback's gone, the strong run game's gone, and the Mecca's gone. So we're going to see how he does because last year, Texas, not one snap was played. I just finished the film yesterday. Now I called it the Stop Jeremiah defense. Not one time, Colin, did they leave Jeremiah by himself. As a result, he had a couple catches for like, say, six yards. So it was a perfect scenario for this talented guy last year. This year it's completely different. And I'm still. He's still as talented as he got. But teams will not leave him singled up unless they can. And if you don't have a run game, you can put two guys on him.

[Dan Beyer]

Yeah, Urban Meyer, as always, great stuff, coach. Getting ready for the season. Going to be on a plane here in a few days. Can't wait.

[Urban Meyer]

So good to see you, brother.

[Dan Beyer]

All right. Urban Meyer. Yeah, the. Yeah, he makes a good point that, that Emeka Buca, the kid that goes to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. That kid is something else. I mean, that kid's running the full route tree when he was like 18 years old. He is really good. John Middlekopf with the news. No, no, no, Turn on the news.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is the Herd line news. Well, Colin, yesterday the Ravens, they had a little injury scare at practice after it was reported Lamar Jackson left with the hand injury, but it was later determined that he inadvertently stepped on and left for precautionary reasons. Today, Lamar is sitting out of practice ahead of the preseason finale and will have five days to rest before the Monday night practice or the Monday's practice ahead of week one. Is this something? Is this nothing? Where you at with Lamar Jackson, Colin?

[Dan Beyer]

Yeah, I think when You. When you move like Lamar Jackson, I think you get banged up. You know, I don't. I don't think Lamar Jackson will ever play a football season for the rest of his life. By week four, if he's totally healthy, he just, you know, he moves, he's fast, he bangs around in there. He's still not one of the great sliders, like a Kyler Murray, you know, the baseball guy. So I don't. It's. It's. I think quarterbacks in this league, I think week four or five, you got aches and pains. Something's banged up.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. I mean, sometimes people step on your foot. I think the thing with Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Mahomes, the margin for error for those top teams to get the number one seed, if any of them were to miss a game or two and you lose because of it, that could be the difference between a home game and an away game. And we've seen, you know, the Chiefs are kind of numb to it. They can win anywhere. But the Bills, huge difference playing on the road or at home. Same thing with the Ravens. I know they lost a couple years ago, but, you know, playing at home is a big deal. So, you know, to have These guys play 17 games, I mean, ideally get to sit the last game if you have it all, you know, kind of tied up at the end.

[Dan Beyer]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Earlier this week, Daniel Jones was named the starter over Anthony Richardson after his poor preseason and training camp performances. While we don't know when we can expect to see Richardson in her center again, the quarterback coach, Cam Turner, had a very telling quote when he was asked about his quarterback. When you guys drafted Anthony, obviously the plan was never to get to this point. Benjamin a second time.

[Dan Beyer]

So looking back, do you guys feel.

[Colin Cowherd]

Like you fail Anthony? Did he fail you or did you fail each other?

[Dan Beyer]

I feel like I tried everything I.

[Colin Cowherd]

Can do, you know, and I feel like he's given great effort in that aspect, too. And I don't think either way, it's.

[Dan Beyer]

One or the other.

[Colin Cowherd]

I just think right now is not where the consistency is, just not where we wanted it to be.

[Dan Beyer]

Yeah, I think that's. I think that's pretty obvious.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, he comes. You watch that cowboy documentary. Pretty sure that's north, son. I mean, these guys, Shane Steichen, the Turner family. I mean, these guys, no offense, Colin. This isn't, you know, me or you coaching the guy. So that, quote, let's just face it, they don't think Anthony Richardson's very good. I mean, there's just no Way to sugarcoat. They just don't think he's very good. And they chose Daniel Jones, who most people don't think is good either, over him. Not a great sign.

[Dan Beyer]

Yeah. And I think, I think it's okay like this. It's hard. This is. I mean, if you go back in the history of the NFL, maybe it's higher now, but you get about one great quarterback a class now. I think it may, the average may be one and a half to two now because quarterbacks are getting more snaps in high school and more private coaching. But if a quarterback draft class gives you two guys who sign like a second contract with the same team that drafted them, that's pretty good. So this is just, I mean, it's hard to find drafts where one of the first round quarterbacks didn't miss. There's a few, but not many, I.

[Colin Cowherd]

Think, you know, Josh Allen happened and a lot of people tried to, you know, force remember Draymond Green is like, who's the next Draymond Green? There hasn't been one in a decade. Like, there's not going to be another Josh Allen. And they tried and it blew up in their face. Okay. On to baseball. Colin Were the Dodgers have gone from a commanding division lead to a real race in the NL West. Last night, Shohei Ohtani was on the mound and had a rough outing, given up five runs and took a comebacker off the, off the thigh later, forcing him out of the game. Dave Roberts discussed Ohtani's injury and the Dodgers poor play of late.

[Kevin Stefanski]

I was just really relieved that it was the thigh because it hit him flush. And so again, if you're, if you're talking about the kneecap, you know that that's, that's a different conversation. So certainly where I saw the ball mark on his thigh, very, very relieved relative to the situation. The results are the results, the performance is the performance. So it certainly speaks to it. You know, I'd like to think it's not a letdown, but certainly when you're here at Coors and kind of putting together some of these at bats, but yeah, I don't know. I don't know the answer.

[Dan Beyer]

It has been a choppy season for the best roster in baseball. The Dodgers have. You're smiling there. I think you, as a Bay Area guy, you probably love this, but it's been choppy.

[Colin Cowherd]

I, I also. They're under.500 since the all Star break. Do you remember, you know, the first year the warriors got Kevin Durant and they won 67 games? They cruised the next couple years. They just didn't really care about the regular season. Baseball's a little different that way. Obviously, Ohtani didn't pitch last year. I also think the playoffs come. I mean, are you going to bet against the Dodgers now? Baseball little different than football and basketball.

[Dan Beyer]

Right.

[Colin Cowherd]

You can have the best roster and your starting pitching's off. If your bullpen's bad, which the Dodgers bullpen hasn't been, great, all of a sudden you can find yourself down two to two games to none against the Padres in the first round and, you know, staring elimination in the face.

[Dan Beyer]

Yeah, I just, I feel like Snell and some of their pitchers, like, I feel like if they could get pitching health, they'd be fine. But it's just like this has been like four years in a row. It feels like maybe three. You know, it's like the San Francisco 49ers wide receiver injuries. I feel the same way about the Dodgers pitching injuries. Like, I can't explain it. I don't know the answer to it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, Glass now's hurt a lot. I mean, part of the reason they got him. My question is with Ohtani, pitching's not going great this year. Just wait till next year to have him pitch. Just let him hit.

[Dan Beyer]

Yep. John Middelkoff with the news.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by.

[Dan Beyer]

The Herd lie news. All right, Urban Meyer, Greg Cosell, Shador Sanders is number three on the depth chart. We wrap it up when we return.

[Colin Cowherd]

Want more?

[Dan Beyer]

Heard the herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the.

[Colin Cowherd]

Iheartradio app search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

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[Dan Beyer]

Right, story that broke about two hours into our show. Kevin Stefanski here he is announcing the Browns quarterback situation against the Rams.

[Colin Cowherd]

Joe will start the game. Dylan will play second.

[Kevin Stefanski]

Shador will play third.

[Dan Beyer]

He's Feeling better and better. So, barring any setback, if he comes.

[Urban Meyer]

In not feeling good tomorrow, which I.

[Kevin Stefanski]

Don'T anticipate he would play on Saturday.

[Dan Beyer]

So I went to Mary Kay Cabot. She does a good job. And I read her tweet that Kevin Stefanski is going with Flacco, then Dylan Gabriel second and Shador third. And then I went to a couple of message boards. Doggy doodoo.com. why is Dylan going second? Stefanski is a clown. It says. Sheesh, man, they really sabotaging Sanders. That's puppylove.com absolutely ridiculous. Give Gabriel the 30 is clearly not performing at the level Sanders is. This team's an absolute joke. Okay, well, listen, John Middelkoff, I thought, said it eloquently. Sports is different. The name of your city. You know, you got guys in your fantasy team. These are not widgets. These are not like, this is not data. These are players that we. You fall in love with. And that's what's great about sports. People are going crazy. But I would say that Stefanski is a pretty smart guy. Shedeur dropped to the fifth. That was a message from the league. Stefanski's got him third. That's a message from the Browns. So now. And also, let's be honest, it's not the end of the road. I mean, players improve. I mean, it's. There's a lot of stories. I mean, Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold and Geno Smith are three examples of, wow, that guy really can play at a really, really high level. They all got paid. So, you know, people. You know, we. People get really high on quarterbacks. And then a couple years later, I mean, people, after four or five starts. Oh, Kenny Pickett. Yeah. Kenny Pickett is now fourth in the depth chart. So, you know, it ebbs and flows on this stuff. You know, Cosell. Greg Cosell a couple weeks ago gave us a little peek when he said Shador is not quite as accurate as everybody says. I do think that Shador moves better, is bigger, and was really productive in college despite a very average offensive roster. I thought he was really productive. So that's what I saw with my eyes. But, you know, it's not the. You know, I've been wrong before. This is. This is Greg Cosell earlier on the Browns quarterback situation.

[Greg Cosell]

Offensive coaches, they think about, how does a player work within my scheme?

[Dan Beyer]

So.

[Greg Cosell]

And what Gabriel is, is he's essentially stylistically similar to a Tua Tagovailoa. Sanders is a little different player. He's not quite as rhythmic. And he has a tendency, and this showed up on tape, by the way. Even though the good outweighed the bad when he played two weeks ago. He tends to drift a little in the pocket. He tends to retreat in the pocket. You know, how many quarterbacks are the Browns going to keep? No team keeps them four quarterbacks. So it's going to be interesting going down the stretch here. And then Sanders got hurt and missed some time in practice and that's not going to help him.

[Dan Beyer]

So my preseason prediction was Flacco wins it, Shador second, Dylan third. They trade Kenny Pickett. So I'm a little off right there. And we will see. Today actually gave us a respite, a break from the Caleb Williams discussion. It's just incredible. You know, the Cubs are playing great baseball and Caleb Williams has taken over Chicago media. Everywhere I go in Chicago. What do you think the Bears are going to do? And I tell everybody I think the over under is perfect. It's like eight and a half wins. If you're optimistic, go with nine. They're not going to be a 12 win team. Rookie coach Caleb trying to kind of stylistically fit with Ben Johnson. I think they, you know, the best thing that could happen to the Bears, honestly. And this is where you have to be optimistic. Detroit's not going to be as good. They're not going to be. Aaron Glenn and Ben Johnson are elite coordinators. The guys that took over. What are the chances they'll be as good or better? It's none. And J.J. mcCarthy, if J.J. mcCarthy is just average, that's good for the Bears. That would help because they went one in five in division last year. And it's, I mean they, these people that are projecting them to win double digit wins, they just don't do that much. They, they don't. So a large part of that is the team. That's a, you know, our train ride up North Green Bay. So the schedule, I, I will argue the Bears schedule is very workable. You get Minnesota at home, if that's on the road, that's a tough opener. I think at home you can win that game. Yes, you're at Detroit, but it's not the same team. And with new coordinators you could argue that, that Detroit won't find its footing until about Thanksgiving with all the new coordinators. And then it's Dallas at home, Raiders by Saints in a couple of weeks after that, you know, New York Giants, Pittsburgh at home. There's some W's here and you know, at the end of the year they Close out with Detroit at home. If Detroit has the division, they could rest starters. So I think there's two or three games that seem like they're not terribly winnable. At Baltimore seems really tough to me. At Philadelphia is really rough traveling, you know, a big chunk of the way. Cross country At San Francisco, when they're wide, receiving, core should be healthier. I think those, that's a tough spot. But I mean, best case scenario is they win that home opener with Minnesota and in Minnesota and Detroit take a significant step back. That would be really good news because you got to win those division games. They're not going to go six and oh, in division, they're not going to go five and one. Can they go 500? Because I can find four or five wins in this schedule. Not in their division. I think they're going to be Dallas, the Raiders, the Saints, the Giants, Pittsburgh. You know, they got a little bit of a break. Those go either way games. Saints at home, Giants at home, Steelers at home. You know, those are winnable games. At Philly and at Baltimore, those aren't winnable games. So. Greg Cosell earlier on Ben and Caleb.

[Greg Cosell]

The main part for Caleb Williams and the key for Ben Johnson is everything from the huddle until the ball is snapped. Because they call multiple plays in the huddle. There's a lot of shifts, there's a lot of motions. You've got to be able to do that with the necessary speed and efficiency. So you get to the line of scrimmage and there's time enough on the shot clock because you're going to have the shifts, you're going to have the motions. Now it's up to Caleb to decide if there's two plays called, which one am I going to run. That part of quarterbacking is the bigger deal for Caleb Williams as he's learning the Ben Johnson offense.

[Dan Beyer]

Yeah, I think there's. There's one team in this league that I think Vegas made a mistake on. It's the Seahawks. They're over, under. I think it's eight and a half. It feels way too low. Their schedule is incredibly workable. The O line's better. Coach in a second year, Darnold's an upgrade. When I hear people talk about Chicago 10 and 11 then now you're treading into a territory where you're overvaluing what they are this, this division. The NFC had like a two, three year gap, you know, where it was really bad. It's not anymore. I mean, Chicago's tough on its coaches and its quarterbacks. I mean, Matt Nagy, think about this. They ran Matt Nagy out of town. Matt Nagy made the playoffs with Mitch Trubisky. And at that time, Kirk Cousins, Matt Stafford and Aaron Rodgers were all not only in the same division, they were in their primes or closer to their primes. And they got Mitch Trubisky to the playoffs and they ran him out of town. I can remember defending Matt Nagy. He reached out to me and said, thanks. They were just crushing him. I'm like, you're getting into the playoffs in a division with Aaron Rodgers twice a year, Stafford twice a year, Kirk Cousins twice a year. In their prime. You have the fourth best quarterback in the division by a long shot. And he made the playoffs twice. Twice. Well, the defense was good. It's a quarterback league. I don't care how good your defense is, it's a quarterback league. Joe Burrow couldn't get into the playoffs. They had terrible defense. So there at Chicago is tough on their coaches and they're tough on their quarterbacks. So again, I said this week, nine and eight feels very optimistic. That's going three and three in division. If they go three and three in division, they hold serve at home. They beat the Vikings in the opener at home. They beat the packers at home. They beat the Lions at home. You know, they're going to be probably underdogs in those games, but slight underdogs. They win those games. I mean, there's an optimistic way to look at this. The Lions rest their starters in week 18. You know, the optimistic way to look at it is, you know, the Giants move off Russell Wilson. They're bad. They go with Jackson dart and you get a raw rookie quarterback in Chicago. You know, there's just, there's positive ways. Dallas is really bad. And, and it takes, it takes Minnesota, J.J. mcCarthy. It's going to take a while to get that right. There's a way to optimistically look at it. But the over unders in Vegas, they make money on fans betting the over. That's. Fans do not bet the under. So I think 9, 8 is a very positive, very realistic look. Where are you on the. I'm. I'm going to say 9 and 8 and I feel like I'm being positive. Where are you?

[Colin Cowherd]

I like 9 and 8 too. This weekend, when you're roaming around Chicago, let everyone know that them extending the backup quarterback is the first contract extension they've given a quarterback since Jay Cutler. That was the backup.

[Dan Beyer]

Sending a signal. What that signal is, we're not sure on Fox one Now you can stream your favorite live sport so you can be there live for the biggest moments. That means NFL Sundays and college football games, NASCAR Major League Baseball, postseason and more. With Fox one, you get it all. Live, edgier seat plays, high octane moments, and that feeling like you're right there in the action. Fox 1 We live for live streaming now.

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[Dan Beyer]

This is an iHeart podcast.