The W.A.D.E. Concept - Jon Jones Is Making The UFC Look Like CLOWNS.. And They're Letting It Happen

Summary

Summary of "The W.A.D.E. Concept - Jon Jones Is Making The UFC Look Like CLOWNS.. And They're Letting It Happen"

Podcast: The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Host: Chael Sonnen
Episode Title: The W.A.D.E. Concept - Jon Jones Is Making The UFC Look Like CLOWNS.. And They're Letting It Happen
Release Date: May 26, 2025
Produced By: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, Chael Sonnen delves deep into the tumultuous state of the UFC's heavyweight division. The primary focus centers on Jon Jones, one of the sport's most enigmatic figures, and his significant impact on the promotion's heavyweight landscape.

The Heavyweight Standstill

Chael Sonnen opens the discussion by highlighting a perplexing scenario within the UFC: "We have two heavyweight champions of the world in the UFC right now and neither of them are fighting." [01:03] This unusual standoff is primarily attributed to Jon Jones' reluctance to engage in scheduled bouts, specifically his hesitance to face Tom Aspinall. Sonnen argues that while fans and media often place the blame on Jones, the UFC itself bears a substantial portion of responsibility for the division's paralysis.

Jon Jones: The Greatest Fighter Yet the Biggest Issue

Sonnen lauds Jon Jones as "the greatest fighter it’s ever lived, point blank period. To me opinion." [02:20] Despite Jones' unparalleled skill and legacy, his current actions—or lack thereof—are causing significant disruptions within the UFC. Chael criticizes Jones for "not getting ready for a fight" and "not representing the UFC as their heavyweight champion." [02:50] Instead of training and preparing for title defenses, Jones is reportedly enjoying a luxurious lifestyle in Thailand, engaging in non-fighting activities that, according to Sonnen, undermine the sport's integrity.

The UFC's Mismanagement

Sonnen shifts the blame squarely onto the UFC, stating that the organization is "letting it happen" [01:03] by not taking decisive action against Jon Jones. He draws a parallel to the 2017 situation with Georges St-Pierre (GSP), where the UFC swiftly stripped GSP of his middleweight title after he indicated a desire to take time off. This decisive move allowed the division to flourish, leading to rivalries like Robert Whittaker vs. Israel Adesanya, which Sonnen credits for building stars and maintaining the middleweight division's vitality. In contrast, the UFC's indecisiveness with Jones is causing stagnation in the heavyweight division.

The Impact on Tom Aspinall

Central to the episode is the discussion about Tom Aspinall, the interim heavyweight champion, whose career trajectory has been significantly hindered by the heavyweight standstill. Sonnen laments that Aspinall has been "almost a year inactive" [12:56] with "no prospects of anything apart from wait." [13:02] This prolonged inactivity not only stalls Aspinall's rise but also damages his momentum and potential stardom within the sport.

Theories Behind the Stalemate

Chael Sonnen offers several theories to explain the ongoing impasse between Jon Jones and the UFC:

1. Television Rights Negotiations: Sonnen speculates that the UFC might be leveraging the Jones-Aspinall fight to bolster their negotiations for new TV rights, considering the star power Jones brings. He suggests that "they have a lot of things up their sleeve" [06:00], potentially delaying the fight to secure a more lucrative TV deal.

2. Financial Negotiations: There's a possibility that Jon Jones is using his bargaining power to demand exorbitant money for his return, with Sonnen questioning if the UFC is either "not willing to match what Jon wants" [07:45] or simply unable to meet his demands.

3. Strategic Delay Tactics: Sonnen posits that the UFC might be adopting a "hurry up and wait" strategy, delaying the fight to strategically position it for maximum impact once new contracts or deals are in place.

The Future of the Heavyweight Division

Sonnen emphasizes the importance of a vibrant heavyweight division, arguing that it "should be your most important division" [10:15] within the UFC. He believes that a strong heavyweight division has the potential to be the most casual, fan-friendly, and lucrative, given the inherent appeal of heavyweight fighters as the "baddest man on the planet." However, the current impasse is preventing the division from reaching its full potential, with Sonnen frustrated by the UFC's inability to prioritize long-term growth over short-term gains.

Comparisons to Other Divisions and Fighters

Drawing comparisons to other divisions, Sonnen reflects on how decisive actions by the UFC in the past have fostered strong rivalries and star development. He contrasts this with the current situation in the heavyweight division, where indecision is stifling progress. Additionally, Sonnen touches on the broader impact of Jon Jones' actions, suggesting that the UFC's handling of the situation could set a precedent for future fighters and divisions.

Predictions and Conclusions

Sonnen makes a bold prediction: "Jon Jones retires." [04:00] He believes that Jones' recent statements and actions indicate a waning interest in fighting, potentially signaling the end of his illustrious career barring significant changes in negotiations or circumstances. Sonnen concludes by reiterating his frustration with the UFC's handling of the situation, emphasizing that the responsibility lies not just with Jones but also heavily with the promotion’s management and strategic decisions.

Notable Quotes

• Chael Sonnen on Jon Jones' Status:
  "Jon Jones is the greatest fighter it's ever lived, point blank period." [02:20]

• On UFC's Handling of Champions:
  "The UFC is not doing anything about it. Do we not remember back in 2017 when Georges St. Pierre was stripped of the middleweight belt?" [06:30]

• On Tom Aspinall's Career:
  "Having Tom on the sidelines waiting and waiting while you go back and forth with Jon Jones... will absolutely destroy the heavyweight division." [14:00]

• Bold Prediction:
  "My boldest prediction of 2025 is that Jon Jones retires." [04:00]

Final Thoughts

Chael Sonnen's in-depth analysis paints a concerning picture of the UFC's heavyweight division, attributing much of the current stagnation to both Jon Jones and the promotion's strategic missteps. By comparing past successful management of champions to the present deadlock, Sonnen underscores the need for decisive action to rejuvenate the division and foster the growth of emerging stars like Tom Aspinall. The episode serves as a critical examination of the interplay between fighter autonomy, organizational strategy, and the broader implications for the sport of MMA.

Transcript

[Chael Sonnen]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

[Jon Anik]

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[Chael Sonnen]

Now let's go to what I originally wanted to talk about today because we're back on the weight concept presented by the Ring magazine. And folks, it is a day in MMA that is bizarre. We have two heavyweight champions of the world in the UFC right now and neither of them are fighting. And while everybody has blamed Jon Jones for not fighting Tom Aspinall and there's a lot of blame to go around there, the real blame for the Jon Jones problem, for Tom Aspinall wasting a year plus of his prime has to go back on the company itself has to go back on the UFC because they are the real reason that their heavyweight division is at a standstill. That we don't have any answers about this fight, that we don't even know who the real champion is because they will not concede and stand up to Jon Jones and I don't know why the breakdown let's go you guys over the last couple of days have seen Jon Jones has been living his best life out in Thailand filming something I'm pretty sure, or I don't know if he's filming it or has filmed it with Nate Diaz and some Russian ultimate fighter wannabe show. He has been riding on the back of mopeds and grasping men's hair whilst riding and he's just out here enjoying his life, you know, fair play, whatever. But he's not getting ready for a fight. He's not in any way showing interest in a fight. It's not representing the UFC as their heavyweight champion. And let me just, let me just say this because everybody wants to just bury Jon Jones because of what's happening right now. Jon Jones is the greatest fighter it's ever lived, point blank period. To me opinion. That's what I think. But what's happening right now is a travesty to the sport. Travesty. And yes, a lot of it is because of Jon Jones, but more of it is because of the UFC and their unwillingness to let go of short term gain for long term. Build evolution of the sport and ability to see past the trees of the forest to the pasture behind. They don't have that right now. And I don't know why. I have some theories, but I don't know why. So let's talk about a couple of them. Number one, let's go into to what has been said over the last week by Jon Jones, right? Because this story, we could go back the last, you know, since November, since he beat Stipe. We could go back before that and the entire Stipe fight happening while Jon had an interim champion waiting on him. Tom Aspinall was there waiting. We go all the way back there, but we're not. Let's go to the newest stuff said from Jon Jones, talking to somebody on FaceTime about his next moves as a fighter. My man, I'm excited.

[Jon Anik]

I'm excited to see you again.

[Chael Sonnen]

He said. You got 10 years left. Are you still active?

[Jon Anik]

I'm done. Forward to seeing you again, Camille.

[Chael Sonnen]

You look great. Let's.

[Jon Anik]

Let's do some business.

[Chael Sonnen]

If you wanted my boldest prediction of 2025, I'm actually very confident in the prediction and that is that Jon Jones retires. I mean, listen, Uncle Chael is not right a lot, actually. You know what? Uncle Jill's never wrong, I should say. But I think he's got it right, right there, at least for what we're hearing. John is saying he's done. And the only thing I can take away from that is exactly what he's saying. He is not in this moment thinking about fighting. He does care about fighting right now. And because of that, you're seeing all this other stuff that Jon has going on. Like I said, he's in Thailand, he's doing other shows, he's talking to people. Let's do business. Let's do business. There is no care about defending his world title because why would he? Jon has already apparently made enough money to be very well off Made enough money to invest and grow businesses and made enough money to tell the ufc, I am not coming back to put my legacy on the line, to put my heavyweight title on the line, unless you pay me an exuberant amount of money. And I don't know if the UFC has offered the amount he wants and he still is saying no, or if the UFC is just not willing to match what Jon wants, or if there's other things at play that we'll get into in a second. But the point I'm trying to make is that John is, is essentially grabbing the UFC by the balls and saying, I've got you now. I know this is a weird comparison or analogy, but I've got you now. Do something. And the UFC is like, nah, I'd rather you just play with them a little. Like, that's, that's what's happening. They're not doing anything about it. Do we not remember back in 2017 when George St. Pierre beat Michael Bisby for the middleweight belt? And I think in the post fight presser he was having like, I don't know if I'm going to defend this. I'm going to take some time off and you know, I don't know, maybe I'll retire, maybe I won't. And they stripped him right there. Like a day later, they stripped him. Hey, George, you're not going to hold this division up. We appreciate you coming back and doing business with us. Fantastic fight. We'll see you later. And George retired. And guess what? The middleweight division moved on. You remember who the next champion of the world is after that in the ufc? Robert Whitaker. And guess what happened? The division moved on. It moved. It didn't stay in one position. And guess what? We built stars, at least to a degree out of that move. Robert Whittaker and Israel Adesanya rivalry. Israel Adesanya and Kelvin Gastelum fought those things built into Izzy being the next big dominant champion at the middleweight division. Imagine if GSP holds that belt for a year. Just doesn't fight the pure, just stagnation of that division. And maybe we don't even get the stars we get out of that. And that's the middleweight division. That's not, in my opinion, the most like, important division in combat sports. I don't care if you agree with me or not, historically, especially in boxing, maybe not in the ufc, but that's because their heavyweight division hasn't had a long standing, massive global star since, I mean, honestly, Brock Lesnar on that level. But you know, D.C. came in and Stipe had a great run and Kane and all that. But the heavyweight division should be your most important division. Is going to be the most casual, fan, favorite, friendly, because you can claim baddest man on the planet. It should be fully your biggest draw, although the UFC has had an issue with that. Not many American heavyweights out there that really toe the line, but it should be your most important division. And right now, the UFC's most important division is being jerked around by Jon Jones, and the UFC is just letting it happen. He's told the ufc, let me find a tweet. Do I come across as the type of guy who cares about things like that, Talking about being stripped? Does he care about things like that? And honestly, over John's career, he hasn't cared about that. How many times John's been stripped? Like four or five times. And John's a big enough name. If you stripped him and made Tom Aspinall the actual champion and he starts wiping out the division. He's kind of already done that. But let's just say he starts going through the division again. Maybe Alex Pereira moves up and he runs through him, whatever, and then Jon gets that itch. Does it really matter that it's a champion versus champion fight to anybody? No, it doesn't. Jon Jones versus Tom Aspinall for the belt is what matters. If you ever wanted to make that fight, it does not matter who holds said belt when it's made. I could give a. About champion versus interim. I could give a shit about that. And I'm telling you now, your casual fan doesn't care either. So I'm just. I'm baffled by why the UFC is doing this now, again, we have more examples of what Jon is doing or potentially trying to do in a tweet like this where Jon is talking about, you know, again, what he said. Y' all barking up the wrong tree here. The ufc. I told the UFC my plans a long time ago. I have no clue why they haven't shared them with you guys yet. This guy says, shut the up and fight. John says, this attitude right here is making me a very wealthy man. This desperation is incredibly lucrative. So thank you. Keep it coming. That tells me that Jon has told the ufc, if you guys really want this fight, here's my number. And maybe that number keeps increasing the longer this thing goes. I don't know. Maybe he's just continues to drag the UFC along and see how much they'll let him get away with before they intervene and say, okay, you're being Unreasonable. We're going to take our belt back. The fight is not wanted because Jon is the champ. The fight is wanted because Jon Jones is the greatest fighter ever. And, yes, he holds the belt, but you take the belt off Jon and he's still Jon Jones. He didn't lose the belt. You can do that fight without Jon being the sitting champion if he ever wanted to make it. If the UFC is not willing to intervene and say, you're giving us our belt back now because you're being unreasonable, there's no reason for Jon to give them the belt back. There's no reason for him to go, yeah, you know what? Maybe I should just do what's best for the company. Maybe I, Jon Jones, should do what's best for the UFC and just give up my belt. Why would he do that? Why would he. I wouldn't. Would you? Would you, as an individual, if you stood to make, let's say, 30 million is the number, because that's what's been rumored. If you stood to make $30 million in a fight versus Tom Aspinall, as long as the UFC isn't asking for their belt back, would you vou voluntarily give it up or would you try to negotiate? And if they're not willing to negotiate, but they're also not asking for their belt, then why don't you just go and do whatever you're doing and keep that in your back pocket? I don't. I don't. I don't have a problem with that if I'm John and as a fan, yeah, it sucks. I don't want the division to be on hold like that. I would like to see the fight. I do think that Jon is very apprehensive about fighting Tom Aspinall. I'm not like everyone else that thinks that Tom's just going to beat the shit out of him. I do think this fight's competitive. I do think there's ways that Jon can win this fight. But I guess my point is none of those things are the fault of Jon Jones. Outside of. Of as a fan selfishly wanting to fight to happen and him negotiating for himself, the UFC has to put their foot down and say, this is our promotion. That is our belt, and if you are not willing to defend it, it is time to take our belt back. And I just don't know why they haven't done. This is no longer Jon Jones's fault for Tom Aspinall. And people are blaming Jon Jones. Like, oh, yeah, you're the reason. You're the reason. You could say Jon's scared. That's what you want to say. But when he is rattling off stuff like this right here, I don't know if I want to call it retired. As this guy said, how does it feel to be retired? I don't know if I want to call it retired. I feel like I'll always have the ability to pop out and show him. I've had many breaks throughout my career. My identity outside of fighting is well intact and I'm genuinely enjoying life and growing in different ways. That's. That's great. That's awesome. If that doesn't tell you that he is not interested in fighting, he's not training, There is no movement in the division. What in the are we doing? He said, I've told the UFC that my plans. I don't know why they're not telling. I'm not retired, but I'm not interested in fighting. I'm out in Thailand doing whatever the I want. I'm doing my own thing and enjoying life. What are we doing? So listen, I think this is only a couple of things that could be going on. Number one, well, let's just read the tweet I made on this. I said at this point the damaging of Tom Aspinall's career is on the ufc. Jon is saying he's at least on an extended break and has no timeline of returning. He stated he doesn't care about being stripped and the UFC has, quote, known his plans for a while now. Why are the UFC keeping the belt on him? TV rights negotiations, trying every last option for the December card, I'm not sure, but strip him and move on. Two things. Number one, I think the UFC right now has a lot of things up their sleeve. I think they have a lot of things they want to bring to a TV rights negotiation because they're in the middle of that right now. Maybe potentially a kickoff to that deal being a Jon Jones, Tom Aspinall fight in the early part of 2026 could be something that they're dangling in front of whatever suitor they have because everybody just assum that this fight, if it's going to happen, is going to be done before 2025 is over. Now, I don't know that that's the case because if that was the case, they could have already had the fight done. Supposed to been done in the summer, in the fall. But if they are looking to start off their TV rights or their new TV deal, whatever, it's going to be espn, Netflix, wherever they go with a bang. What's a bigger fight than Jon Jones. Tom Aspinall. Maybe that's what it is. Maybe it's a hurry up and wait situation to where they can get the first big fight card on their new contract to be their heavyweight title. Un. That's what I'm saying. I don't know why they wouldn't inform Tom Aspinall, because it seems like Tom has some things he knows. But genuinely, it seems like he has more questions than answers. Let's take a look at this clip from Tom's interview on Mighty Mouse's channel.

[Tom Aspinall]

I've been almost a year inactive with no prospects of anything apart from weight.

[Chael Sonnen]

Yeah.

[Tom Aspinall]

So now is actually a little bit more of a tricky time for me mentally than it was then and now. It's kind of difficult, like, mentally to. To be like. And. But this is the. This is the fight against Jon Jones, like, not the fight is another thing.

[Chael Sonnen]

Yeah.

[Tom Aspinall]

This is the tricky bit where I really have to stay switched on, stay motivated. And I'm trying my best. I'm trying. It's tough sometimes.

[Chael Sonnen]

Especially, like, listen to the way he talks. Let's just go back and listen to the first part again.

[Tom Aspinall]

Now, I've been almost a year inactive with no prospects of anything apart from wait.

[Chael Sonnen]

Yeah. That's all he knows right now. Wait for what again? My theory, they're gonna wait until that new TV rights deal. That's the only thing I can. When he says I have no prospects other than wait, that has to be it, because what else are you waiting for? Is $30 million gonna pop out of the sky for Jon Jones? They have the money to pay him right now. They have a card in December. They need to fill their end of the year card. It's their biggest card of the year. If they're still saying wait. And this. This wasn't. This was recorded last week. Right. With Mighty Mouse and Tom Aspinall, the UFC would already have talks of what they're doing toward the end of the year, especially if it's going to be Tom Aspinall, their heavyweight interim champion, going against John, their. Their. Their heavyweight champ. This has to be it. Either that or they genuinely can't get Jon Jones to come to the plate. Genuinely. They can't get him to come to the table and make a deal. And they still believe that they'll be able to do it. Right. They're. They're not able to get him to say yes to anything, but they're still trying. But having Tom on the sidelines waiting and waiting while you go back and forth with Jon Jones, not knowing if you're actually going to get him, not knowing if the offer you're making or the, the negotiations you're having are actually going to come through, will absolutely destroy the heavyweight division and the potential stardom of Tom Aspinall. This is why I say the UFC is so focused on this short term potential gain and ignoring the long term success of potential heavyweight matchups and longevity and legacy of what could be with Tom Aspinall could be for this, this one big moment that may or may not launch him or you may or may not ever get. It's just bizarre to me. Like, yeah, it would be great for Tom Aspinall to beat Jon Jones and then have that rocket ship him to the moon, but would also be great for Tom Aspinall to build his career through making big time strides at heavyweight, cleaning out the division and becoming a dominant champion, which he has no opportunity to do because his entire career is on hold right now for Jon Jones and the whims of Jon Jones and realistically the whims of the UFC because they're not willing to part with the other guy that made his legacy the greatest legacy in the history of combat sports through doing the thing that Tom wants to do. Did Jon Jones have blockbuster matchup after blockbuster matchup where we waited for a double title fight where we needed a certain name inserted where we needed legacy after? No, he just ran through everybody in his division time after time after time to build his name and then he got an ingrain rivalry with Daniel Cormier at the end of it and built that into a blockbuster fight. Yeah, legends were there along the way. Shogun was there, Rampage was there. There were so many massive names of the era before him, and then the Gustafson fight, Rashad Evans, all those fights. But he just did it in a congruent way that built. We didn't do this whole wait around thing that we've done, not just with Tom and Jon, but Jon and Stipe. That's also affected Josh. As we sit here, the only thing I can think is that the UFC is, is waiting until 2026. They thought maybe we could get this done in 2025 and, you know, boost our numbers going into TV rights negotiations. But they're already negotiated, so there is no way to boost the numbers that you could potentially show a suitor to bring you to the new TV rights deal. Now you're just waiting again, the big term here, waiting for the new deal to start and that you started off right in Quarter one. That's all I can think of. Or that John has just told the ufc, yeah, maybe I'll come back if the number's right. And he keeps giving him the run around. But at that point, you have to put your foot down. This has been the whole thing the UFC has built themselves into as being. The logo is the sell, the UFC is the star. Is that right or wrong for the business? People can have their opinions, but if you're going to go that route, then you strip them and you move on and you build your next big star. Otherwise we'll be here again in a year. The simplest problem with the most simple solution. But for some reason they just won't do it. And I think again, they see this as a short term, big pop moment. I think it's a sacrifice for long term potential gain. That's what I think. That's the Jon Jones problem. To me, it's not even necessarily just him, but the UFC is loading the gun up and shooting themselves in the foot by wasting the prime years of Tom Aspinall. Just having him wait for something they don't even know that they're going to get. That's sad. But what happens next in this Willy Woney fight thing for Jon Jones? Is he really retired? I. I'm honestly, I don't think Jon comes back anytime soon. Un. Unless something changes or my prediction on this whole TV rights thing is correct. I don't see him coming back. At least not in 2025. You guys let me know what you think down below and I guess we'll find out.

[Jon Anik]

Okay? Have you heard about this? Last year, Degree changed the formula for their Cool Rush deodorant. The fans rebel and wanted the old scent back. And degree listen, and that doesn't happen often. They admitted they effed up and are bringing the original Cool Rush scent back. And it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. There's a reason why it's the number one man's antiperspirant. And it's back in Walmart, Target and other stores now for under $4. So try it and see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart Target and try the OG Cool Rush for yourself.

[Chael Sonnen]

You're listening to an Iheart podcast.