Unbreakable Episode 118 – Dean Blandino

Summary

Unbreakable Episode 118 – Dean Blandino

Host: Scott Galloway
Guest: Martin Luther King III
Release Date: February 19, 2025
Podcast: The Herd with Colin Cowherd / Unbreakable with Jay Glazer

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1. Introduction

In this episode of Unbreakable, host Scott Galloway welcomes Martin Luther King III, the former head of officiating for the NFL, to discuss the intricate world of NFL officiating, the immense pressures officials face, and the importance of mental health within the profession.

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2. Preparation and Pressure in NFL Officiating

Timestamp: [04:35] – [07:00]

Martin Luther King III delves into the ramped-up preparation leading to the Super Bowl. He explains how the league’s focus intensifies during the playoffs, with hundreds of league officials assigned to high-stakes games like the NFC and AFC championships and the Super Bowl itself.

Notable Quote:

“When you get into the playoffs, there's much more focus from the league office. In the championship games and the Super Bowl, the scrutiny is intense.”
— Martin Luther King III [04:35]

King outlines the weekly routine for officials leading up to the Super Bowl, including family celebrations, walkthroughs at the stadium, film study, and extensive pre-game preparations.

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3. Mental Health Challenges for Officials

Timestamp: [11:03] – [22:35]

The conversation shifts to the mental health struggles faced by NFL officials. King emphasizes the high-pressure environment where officials often receive negative feedback, leading to stress and, in some cases, depression.

Notable Quote:

“Officiating is interesting because it's a negative environment. Nobody pats you on the back. People understand that when they get into it, but it's not like referees leave a game and people say, 'Great job, ref.'”
— Martin Luther King III [11:03]

He recounts instances where officials have struggled mentally after making controversial calls and the lack of recognition or support they receive. King highlights the evolution of mental health awareness in the officiating community, stressing the need for better resources and support systems.

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4. Interaction with Coaches and Handling Pressure

Timestamp: [13:05] – [22:35]

Scott Galloway and King discuss the tumultuous relationships between officials and NFL coaches. Galloway shares personal anecdotes about past conflicts with coaches like Sean Payton, illustrating the constant tension officials face.

Notable Quote:

“Officials are under so much pressure. There's a constant battle in terms of trying to understand what the coach needs—whether it's venting or an explanation.”
— Martin Luther King III [21:25]

King emphasizes the importance of officials maintaining composure and emotional detachment when interacting with frustrated coaches, often acting as informal therapists to alleviate coaches' stress.

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5. Personal Stories and Experiences

Timestamp: [31:13] – [39:28]

The discussion turns personal as King shares his pivotal career moment in 2008, when he contemplated leaving the NFL officiating department. Faced with a glass ceiling and personal struggles, he took a significant risk by leaving, only to be rehired later and eventually leading the department.

Notable Quote:

“I bet on myself, and it worked out, thankfully. It was the scariest thing I've ever done, but it was life-changing.”
— Martin Luther King III [36:49]

Galloway reflects on their friendship, recounting playful and challenging moments, highlighting the camaraderie and mutual respect developed over the years.

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6. Suggestions for Improving Officiating

Timestamp: [27:24] – [31:13]

King and Galloway brainstorm potential improvements for NFL officiating. Galloway proposes recruiting military personnel, such as SEALs or Marines, citing their discipline and resilience as ideal traits for officials.

Notable Quote:

“Get special ops guys who played football. They can keep up physically and bring more respect to the role.”
— Scott Galloway [28:39]

King agrees on the importance of physical fitness and structured training but cautions against potential conflicts, emphasizing the need for balance between discipline and approachability.

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7. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with reflections on the challenges and rewards of NFL officiating. King reiterates the significance of mental health support and continuous improvement to ensure officials can perform their roles effectively without compromising their well-being.

Final Notable Quote:

“Betting on myself was the best decision. It allowed me to lead with a better perspective and prioritize my personal life alongside my career.”
— Martin Luther King III [38:52]

Galloway expresses gratitude to King for sharing his experiences and insights, underscoring the importance of such dialogues in fostering understanding and positive change within high-pressure professions.

---

This episode provides an in-depth look into the world of NFL officiating, highlighting the often-overlooked mental health challenges and the relentless pressure officials endure. Martin Luther King III's candid stories and thoughtful suggestions offer valuable perspectives on improving the officiating landscape for the future.

Transcript

[Jay Shetty]

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty. My latest episode is with financial expert Scott Galloway.

[Scott Galloway]

If you are doing a lot of side hustles, it's very, very difficult to be great at your main hustle. The only way you're going to build real wealth and economic security is to go all in on one thing. That is greatness. Focus Scott is a professor of marketing.

At NYU Stern School of Business.

[Jay Shetty]

Scott Galloway Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Mary Kay McBrayer]

I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast the Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. This season explores women from the 19th century to now. Women who were murderers and scammers, but also women who were photojournalists, lawyers, writers, and more. This podcast tells more than just the brutal, gory details of horrific acts. I delve into the good, the bad, the the difficult, and all the nuance I can find because these are the stories that we need to know to understand the intersection of society, justice, and the fascinating workings of the human psyche. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Scott Galloway]

Welcome to My Legacy. I'm Martin Luther King iii, and together with my wife, Andrea Waters King, and our dear friends Mark and Craig Kilburger.

[Martin Luther King III]

We explore the personal journeys that shape extraordinary lives. Join us for heartfelt conversations with remarkable guests like David Oyelowo, Mel Robbins, Martin Sheen, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, and Billy Porter.

[Bobby Bones]

Listen to My legacy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Martin Luther King III]

This is my Legacy.

[Bobby Bones]

Hey, it's Bobby Bones. Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday for our new podcast, Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle. Between us, we have over 17,500 passing yards, multiple New York Times bestsellers, and one mirrorball trophy from Dancing With a Star. So where else are you going to find a show with that much athleticism and football insight? We talk sports, but we talk pop culture and music and a little bit of everything. Listen to Lots to Say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Scott Galloway]

This is Unbreakable with Jay Glaser, a Mental wealth podcast.

[Jay Shetty]

Build you from the inside out.

[Scott Galloway]

Now here's Jay Glaser. Welcome into unbreakable mental wealth Podcast with Jay Glazer. I'm Jay Glaser. I'm proud to be joined. So super bowl is behind us, but obviously officiating is always a big topic, and for that I want to bring in my teammate at the NFL on Fox, former head of officiating for the NFL, Dean Blandino. How are we doing, buddy?

[Martin Luther King III]

I'm good, man. I'm good, dude.

[Scott Galloway]

How happy are you that you're able to come off a Super bowl and not be screamed at by coaches and fans and, you know, only by our producers, which is way better than coaches and fans.

[Martin Luther King III]

Let me tell you, the, the people at Fox Sports, the producers, the executives, they. They've got nothing on NFL head coaches. Let me tell you, I love working at Fox, and one of the biggest things I love is not dealing with angry coaches.

[Scott Galloway]

Yes. Yeah. Let me ask you this. When you're leading up to a Super bowl, does everything get tighter in the league office or, you know, like, how is it lead me up to the Super Bowl? What, what happens where the league office, there's so much attention, obviously, that happens in officiating in the playoffs. Is it just. That's just another week or it gets tired? How do they approach things?

[Martin Luther King III]

No, it definitely ramps up when you think about regular season. I mean, you've got 272 regular season games, and they're all kind of happening on their own. The league office is monitoring everything, the different areas. But when you get into the playoffs now, there's one game at a time. There's. There's obviously more people watching and there's more focus from the league office. You think about the NFC and AFC championship games. The league really runs those two games, and then obviously the Super Bowl. So a regular NFL game, regular, regular season, you might have, you know, you might have 10 people from the league office. Championship game, super bowl, you've got hundreds. So. So it ramps up and obviously the scrutiny, the pressure, everything is more intense.

[Scott Galloway]

Take me through just what they do with the officials. Like the week of that goes in, what you guys would do with the officials. Take me through Monday or Sunday to Sunday.

[Martin Luther King III]

Sure. So. So the crew gets notified actually right, right before the divisional games. So actually right after the divisional round game. So the crew knows that, that, that Monday, that Tuesday, they know so they can start preparing for, for the game. Typically the crew will get in Wednesday or Thursday of the, of the week before the game.

[Scott Galloway]

So 10 days out, you're saying, no.

[Martin Luther King III]

No, no, not 10 days out. So, so you try to keep it as close to regular season.

[Bobby Bones]

You.

[Martin Luther King III]

You typically go in the day before, right?

[Bobby Bones]

So.

[Martin Luther King III]

So they try to keep the officials kind of isolated from all. Because, you know, the super bowl, there's so much. There's events, there's parties, there's all this stuff going on. New Orleans is crazy, right? So you try to keep the officials kind of. Kind of isolated from that. They'll come in Wednesday or Thursday. Thursday night is probably one of my favorite events of the year, because before it really starts to get down to the, you know, the meetings and the walkthrough and everything else, they have a big dinner with their families. And it's a celebration because just like the players and the coaches, this. For a lot of these officials, this is a dream come true. If it's their first super bowl, this is what they've worked their entire career and sometimes their entire lives from when they were young and started officiating. So that opportunity on Thursday night to celebrate with the people. Because you make so many sacrifices in this. In this industry, right? To celebrate with those people that have sacrificed so much, right? You. You miss birthdays, you miss graduations, you miss all of these things during football season. And to say thank you to those people that are closest to you, that's one of my favorite things. Then Friday, there's a walkthrough at the stadium. They practice the coin toss. People don't realize how much the freaking coin toss has to get practiced and this and that. And then they're watching film. They have all day pre game on Saturday, going through film, talking about the two teams. And then Sunday, get there. Typically a regular season game, you're there two and a half to three hours before because it's the super bowl. And all of the security and all the extra layers, they're there about five hours before kickoff and just kind of preparing leading up to the start of the game.

[Scott Galloway]

How much extra do they get if they get chosen for the Super Bowl?

[Martin Luther King III]

Well, there's a postseason fee that it's really not that much more than it would be for the regular season, where the compensation comes in. Any official that meets the performance standard, which is set before the season, any official that meets that standard gets like the teams do. They get like, a postseason bonus when they go further and further in the postseason. So they get a postseason bonus, and it's split amongst all the officials that qualify. So that's a pretty. Pretty good number. It could be up to about 30 grand. And then the game. The game fees are, you know, depending on seniority anywhere from like maybe 7500 to 10 grand. So. But they don't do it. You know, when you get to that level, it's not about the money. It's about the experience and the opportunity to say, hey, I worked at the highest level.

[Jay Shetty]

I'm Jay Shetty. My latest episode is with financial expert Scott Galloway.

[Scott Galloway]

If you are doing a lot of side hustles, it's very, very difficult to be great at your main hustle. The only way you're going to build real wealth and economic security is to go all in on one thing. That is greatness, focus. None of this matters. None of it means a thing if you can have deep and meaningful relationships.

Scott is a professor of marketing at NYU Stern School of Business.

[AJ Jacobs]

He's a best selling author. He has earned a massive following through his lectures, podcasts and YouTube channel.

[Jay Shetty]

Scott Galloway, how do we rewire our relationship with money? Because most of us have a stressful relationship with money.

[Scott Galloway]

You want to be good at money? Put down the facade and start talking to people about their investments, how much money they make, what they do with their money, how they save money. What I tell young people is you can have it all. You just can't have it all at once.

[Jay Shetty]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back at the Daily show and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondence and contributors. And with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bobby Bones]

Hey, it's Bobby Bones. Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday for our new podcast, Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle. Between us, we have over 17,500 passing yards, multiple New York Times bestsellers, and one mirrorball trophy from Dancing with the Star. So where else are you gonna find a show with that much athleticism and football insight? Based in Nashville, we're more than just your basic NFL show. We talk sports, but we talk pop culture and music and a little bit of everything because we got lots to say. I texted you and you texted me back. Now, I don't know if you have the update, but like all the little Thumbs up and heart and stuff. Like it's all colored. They changed it and the heart's a little pink. It felt like I told you I loved you. I'm gonna be honest, it was a little pink.

[Scott Galloway]

There was something sentimental when you, when you send it. It was like, do I send the heart now?

[Bobby Bones]

I don't like the color edition.

[Scott Galloway]

It's extremely pink.

[Bobby Bones]

Listen to lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jon Stewart]

Something about Mary Poppins.

[AJ Jacobs]

Something about Mary Poppins. Exactly.

[Jon Stewart]

Oh, man, this is fun.

[AJ Jacobs]

I'm AJ Jacobs and I am an author and a journalist and I tend to get obsessed with stuff. And my current obsession is puzzles. And that has given birth to my podcast, the Puzzler. Dressing. Dressing.

[Scott Galloway]

French dressing.

[AJ Jacobs]

Exactly.

[Martin Luther King III]

Oh, that's good.

[AJ Jacobs]

Now you can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears.

[Bobby Bones]

I thought to myself, I bet I know what this is.

[Martin Luther King III]

And, and now I definitely know what this is.

[Scott Galloway]

This is so weird. This is fun.

[Bobby Bones]

Let's try this one.

[AJ Jacobs]

Our brand new season features special guests like Chuck Bryant, Mayim Bialik, Julie Bowen, Sam Sanders, Joseph Gordon Levitt and lots more. Listen to the Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bobby Bones]

That's awful and I should have seen it coming.

[Martin Luther King III]

Thomas.

[Scott Galloway]

We have a mental. Well podcast I used to call mental health. Do you have officials come to you in the past and they come to you where they just have performance anxiety and they just have an anxiety attacks before games, during it, whatever it is.

[Martin Luther King III]

No question. We really, you know, when I was there, wasn't I started in, in the mid-90s, right. So you think about just in general what we, what we did for mental health and mental wellness, nowhere near what we're, what we're doing today. And more aware of what's happening and officials, I mean I've seen officials that, that make a call and maybe it's the wrong call and it's a big game and they, their world crumbles. I mean you go back the official who you go back to 1998, jets, Seahawks fourth down. Vinnie Testaverde ruled a touchdown. Jets win, Seahawks lose, Seahawks don't make the playoffs. The entire coaching staff gets fired. That official who made that call went into such a deep depression that the entire community, the officiating community, the family had to help him get out of that. And so you see that and officiating is interesting because it's a Negative environment. Nobody is. There's no pats on the back. People understand that when they get into it. But it's not like referees in any sport leave a game and there's a lot of people going, great job, ref. It's very negative. And that's something we've really strived in recent years to say. We have to provide our officials resources, mental health, mental wellness resources, because it is so stressful. There's so much pressure and a lot of them need help.

[Scott Galloway]

Wow. Interesting. I remember, look, you and I've been friends for a long time. So much so that by the way, just people know I broke the Spygate video and I kind of pinned it on Dean and Mike Pereira.

[Martin Luther King III]

Yeah, thanks, man.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, which, which, you know, look, I had to leave breadcrumbs and people still think you're the one who gave it to me. So I, you know, whenever we go out drinking, I try and him and I, I got this on you. And then Mike, poor Mike just crumbled. And ironically, both guys are now working with me at Fox and they're both like you, Glazer. But which I did tell the commissioner, look, I'm going to leave so, so many bread for me.

[Martin Luther King III]

Can I curse on this? I can call you A because you are a.

[Scott Galloway]

But anyway, but I even told the commissioner, listen, please don't do a. An investigation because I'm going to leave so many breadcrumbs to who it's not. And you guys are just going to. There's going to be so many people who are hurt. And unfortunately, you and Pereira are the easiest one to leave breadcrumbs on because you're in officiating. And funny because I actually let breadcrumbs for about four people where you were the two that they like focused in on because Pereira just, when they brought him in, it was like the, you know, put under the light, he just fumbled and he just up. By the way, neither one of these guys gave me spy. Spy gate. Obviously I wouldn't even bring it up here, but being friends with you over the years, the last couple years, I saw a big change in you. And what I mean is, last couple when you were still at the league where I was no longer able to have a conversation with you at dinner because these coaches hit you up non stop to bitch at you. And it didn't stop. I was like, Dean, be present here. You're like, I can't. Like it doesn't stop now. And I think that more, you know, we are so much closer because of social Media to you guys and the coaches and just everyone now has an opinion. Back in the day, there's three insiders right as me for fathers, Me, Mort Clayton, Len Pascarelli and Peter Kim. National insiders. You know, that was it. Now there's a billion, right? There's. Everybody has a voice.

[Martin Luther King III]

Sure.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I just saw a decided market and it's just like, I'm glad you got out of that to come to fox, which was a much better existence. But I saw a huge downturn in your mental health for those two years. And I would tell you about it. Like, dude, these guys, you got to put some boundaries up. You're like, I can't.

[Martin Luther King III]

It was no question. And look, I'll be honest. Everything in my life suffered one. That was one of the biggest reasons people say, look, I don't, I love the NFL. I grew up in the NFL. It was my first real job out of college. And, and I, and I stayed there for the most part. So I'll always be loyal to the NFL, the people, the league office. But I got to the point where that job was and I still loved it, but it was so all encompassing. Like you said, there's no, there's no time off. It's 24 7, coach. They're grinding, right? They're working 18, 19 hour days. So I've got to be available. But the problem and the thing that I think I did wrong for my mental health and really, and it affected my relationships, my marriage, you know, everything. And I always felt like if a coach texted me or a coach emailed me that I approached it, that that coach was standing at their computer or at their phone waiting for me to respond. That's, that's the sense of urgency I put on it. And I, and I, and I neglected so many other parts of my life. And it, and it, look, it, I, I was just not, I was not good on the personal side of my life because of that. And, and, and look, those are choices that you make. And one of the choices that I made was, okay, I, I want a better, a better, just kind of, you know, life in terms of being able to do other things, not always being on call and the ability to go and still work in the game and be a part of Fox Sports Team. It was life changing and it really affected everything from a personal standpoint in a positive way.

[Scott Galloway]

What are they calling you about on Wednesday night though?

[Martin Luther King III]

Looking at film? Hey, we're playing the Chiefs on South Sunday. They do this or they do that. You know, it was nonstop Right. You're getting calls. You know what's funny is that right after I left, so my last season was 2016. They did one more season, 2017, and I think it was 2018. They basically incorporated a 24 hour cooling off period where the coaches couldn't contact the league office officiating for 24 hours until the game was over. And I'm like, man, where was that? When I was there, I had like, I had like Sean Payton calling me at halftime like, like, you know, so it was that. It was really. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, Sean's the best. We both love Sean. We worked with Sean. Sean was the one guy that want.

[Scott Galloway]

To beat his ass half the time. Yeah.

[Martin Luther King III]

If you, if you're like, coach, no, the, the earth is round. And he's like, no, it's flat. You couldn't convince him otherwise. That was it. Nope, I'm not gonna. You're. You're wrong. I'm right. And, and so I've had a threaten.

[Scott Galloway]

Sean bodily harm on more than one occasion. He will get after you. And Rosie's had to stop me. Like, dude, I will choke you out and leave you in the gutter if you ever talk me like this. And he's like, oh, you're gonna do this now? I'm like, what the did you just say to me? And Rose is common. We had, we got into it like 6am last year. And I was like, I will fucking murder you. And he was like, oh, we're going there. And Rosie's like, okay, okay, yeah, let's stop talking.

[Martin Luther King III]

Five months. But I remember you. I remember you. We won't name names, but I remember you at a Super bowl getting mad at somebody and kicking them out of their seat because you wanted Sean Payton to sit with us. But that, that, that's a different story if you remember that.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't remember that.

[Martin Luther King III]

Okay, well, I'll, that'll be offline. I'll tell you.

[Scott Galloway]

Out of your seat.

[Martin Luther King III]

No, you didn't kick me out of the seat. It was somebody else.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, I do remember that. Weirdo Fox dinner.

[Martin Luther King III]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Scott Galloway]

And because him and his wife were coming, that's why.

[Martin Luther King III]

Yeah, that's right.

[Scott Galloway]

It was him and his wife. His dude was sitting there, he's like, no, you move. And I was like, you talking.

[Martin Luther King III]

It got uncomfortable for a second.

[Scott Galloway]

Really uncomfortable. And I got loud. He shouldn't have been at the dinner. Yeah, yeah, because he was, you know, it wasn't somebody. A part of the Fox family. And yes, I did. That's Correct, Sean, like you said, you have a love, hate, but keep, keep talking about these guys.

[Martin Luther King III]

But no, but that, that's it. You know, they're. They'll call, you know, Sunday night, Monday there. Because these coaches are under so much pressure and they're control freaks, right? Everything from an NFL schedule, right? Everything is down to the minute practice, you know, all of it. And, and so the one thing they can't control is, is the officiating. And so it's a constant battle in terms of trying to understand. And look, I, I worked with so many head coaches. There isn't one. People asked me who was the biggest asshole. I can, I can truly say I never dealt with any, like, real true assholes. Now, could, could be. No, Bill. Bill was the other way. Bill understood. The thing that I loved about Bill, when I dealt with him, he.

[Scott Galloway]

He.

[Martin Luther King III]

He understood it. He's like, listen, I get it. He goes, I make mistakes during a game. Players make mistakes. Officials are going to make mistakes. Bill just wanted to know what was going on. Hey, how are the officials going to handle this situation? How are they calling this? He just wanted the information. And like I said, I never had, like, anybody that was like, that guy's an. Now, could they be an in the moment in that conversation. Absolutely.

[Scott Galloway]

You know, sorry, he's got after your.

[Martin Luther King III]

Life, our guy Ba. Bruce. I mean, murder you. He would just murder me. Murder me. He'd be on. I remember Thursday night. They're playing a Thursday night game. He's on the bus. Me, after the game, you know, accusing me. My first year, my first year, he accused me of not knowing the rules. My second year, he accused me of cheating. My third year, he said he's never. I'm never calling. I'm never calling the office again. Like, that lasted like a week, right? So there's guys, you know, every Tom Coughlin, you know, he gave, you know, it was like 45 minutes one day on a Monday, just letting me have it. And his assistant is texting me while it's happening. Hey, Dean, don't take it personally. I get this like three times a week. So it's just. But in those moments, and we talk about mental health and mental wellness, I really felt like a therapist in those moments because a lot of that was. Was venting. A lot of that was the coach they want. They're under so much pressure. They just wanted to get it off their chest. And I always took the approach of, I'm going to take my emotion out of it. I'm going to listen And I'm going to, I'm going to see what that person on the other end of the line needs. Does, does that person need to vent? Does that person need an explanation? What do you need? And 99% of the time we ended the call on a good note. Sometimes maybe, you know, there was a hang up and we had to have another phone call. But that's kind of the approach that I took because, and those guys are under so much pressure. Like I said, is there anybody ever.

[Scott Galloway]

Pushed you so far over the edge? You're like, hey, like I would react you.

[Martin Luther King III]

Yeah. And I, and I, and I, I really like the guy. But one time I, I mean, Jerry Reese and I must have hung out, hung up on each other about three times in one conversation where I was just like, we're not getting anywhere.

[Scott Galloway]

Former Giants gm.

[Martin Luther King III]

Yeah, yeah, former Giants gm. And we're not getting anywhere. You know, and you know, he said some things and then I said some things that, that we probably both regret that. That was like one of the few times. But you know that those things will happen when you're, when you're talking about the emotions and the pressure.

[Jay Shetty]

I'm Jay Shetty. My latest episode is with financial expert Scott Galloway.

[Scott Galloway]

If you are doing a lot of side hustles, it's very, very difficult to be great at your main hustle. The only way you're going to build real, real wealth and economic security is to go all in on one thing. That is greatness, focus. None of this matters. None of it means a thing if you can have deep and meaningful relationships.

Scott is a professor of marketing at NYU Stern School of Business.

[AJ Jacobs]

He's a best selling author. He has earned a massive following through his lectures, podcasts and YouTube channel.

[Jay Shetty]

Scott Galloway, how do we rewire our relationship with money? Because most of us have a stressful relationship with money.

[Scott Galloway]

You want to be good at money? Put down the facade and start talking to people about their investments, how much money they make, what they do with their money, how they save money. What I tell young people is you can have it all. You just can't have it all at once.

[Jay Shetty]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back at the Daily show and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with. With the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's Correspondents and contributors. And with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bobby Bones]

Hey, it's Bobby Bones. Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday for our new podcast, Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle. Between us, we have over 17,500 passing yards, multiple New York Times bestsellers, and one mirror ball trophy from Dancing with a Star. So where else are you going to find a show with that much athleticism and football insight? Based in Nashville, we're more than just your basic NFL show. We talk sports, but we talk pop culture and music and a little bit of everything because we got lots to say. I. I texted you and you texted me back. Now, I don't know if you have the update, but, like, all the little thumbs up and heart and stuff, like, it's all colored. They changed it and the heart's a little pink. It felt like I told you I loved you. I'm gonna be honest, it was a little pink.

[Scott Galloway]

There was something sentimental when you. Like, when you send it, it's like, do I send the heart now?

[Bobby Bones]

I don't like the color edition.

[Scott Galloway]

It's extremely pink.

[Bobby Bones]

Listen to Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jon Stewart]

Something about Mary Poppins.

[AJ Jacobs]

Something about Mary Poppins. Exactly.

[Jon Stewart]

Oh, man, this is fun.

[AJ Jacobs]

I'm A.J. jacobs, and I am an author and a journalist, and I tend to get obsessed with stuff, and my current obsession is puzzles, and that has given birth to my podcast, the Puzzler. Dressing. Dressing.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, French dressing.

[AJ Jacobs]

Exactly.

[Martin Luther King III]

Oh, that's good.

[AJ Jacobs]

Now you can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears.

[Bobby Bones]

I thought to myself, I bet I know what this is.

[Scott Galloway]

And.

[Martin Luther King III]

And now I definitely know what this is.

[Scott Galloway]

This is so weird. This is fun.

[Bobby Bones]

Let's try this one.

[AJ Jacobs]

Our brand new season features special guests like Chuck Bryant, Mayim Bialik, Julie Bowen, Sam Sanders, Joseph Gordon Levitt, and lots more. Listen to the Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bobby Bones]

That's awful, and I should have seen it coming.

[Scott Galloway]

How do they still it up so much?

[Martin Luther King III]

I think there's a disconnect between how we see the game on the broadcast and how the game is officiated on the field, but it's just too much.

[Scott Galloway]

Like, there was A time where it's just like, let's lay off. And now that those times are gone.

[Martin Luther King III]

Like, no question, no question. And, and, and look, when I first started and this, this goes back to, you know, Paul Tagliebu, Commissioner Tagliebu, we, you know, a play happened, it was controversial and then, and then everybody moved on. The league rarely made statements. But in 1995 you could do that, right? Because it was, it was newspapers, it was, you know, it wasn't the 24 hour cycle that we have today. Like you said, everybody on social media, everybody, the Internet. So now you. So I think the league really, I don't think the league has an officiating problem. I think the league has a transparency problem. And I think that's where I think.

[Scott Galloway]

They have a fishing problem, like the problem. Because they just call too much. Like there is something on every single play you can call.

[Martin Luther King III]

Sure, right.

[Scott Galloway]

And it was, look, when the, when the replacement refs came in, it was like, hey, don't call anything. Don't be part of the story. And they weren't. It was great. And, and I just think that should be the directive. Don't be part of the story.

[Martin Luther King III]

There's no question that for, for people, most people watching the game, less flags is good, right? It's good. There's less stoppages, there's less let the players decide. I do think that over the years, when you go that far that way teams tend to take advantage. And now that now you have to kind of overcorrect the other way because if teams know, hey, they're not going to throw and we've had teams that just coached it and have been very successful, when you think about, you know, on the defensive side of the ball, hey, if they're not going to call holding an illegal contact, we're going to do it on every play. And maybe we get caught once out of 10, 10 times, but we win nine out of 10 times. And so that's, that's the fear with not calling anything. And it's a balance. But look, officials aren't perfect. Yeah, they make mistakes and I think the league is aware of it and they're going to try to, you know, hopefully, you know, correct some things with replay. But I still think you got to get to the root of the problem. Get good officials, get good training, get good people in the league office to, to, to, to, you know, to lead that group.

[Scott Galloway]

So here's my suggestion to Roger GOODELL Straight out 10 years ago, I still think it's a great idea. I Said, I think you should get X special Ops guys, Deltas, SEALs, Marine Recon guys who actually played football, right? Know the game, make them your officials. Because A, they're common chaos. B, physically they can keep up with these cats, right? And be in a better position. And see those coaches ain't gonna wear out an ABCL or Delta, right? They're not gonna be screaming at them. And I still think it's a great idea. Plus we're, you know, a lot of these guys come out of service and have a hard time finding work. And Roger's like, you're crazy. I'm like, what? We know that, but I think it's a great idea.

[Martin Luther King III]

I think the concept is when you, when the, the attributes that you just mentioned, those are all things that will lead to a good, a good official, right? The common, common chaos, you know, the ability to keep. You got to be physically fit. And that has changed. Look, when I first started in 1995, you know what the officials fitness test was at their annual clinic. They had to finish a mile. Not, it wasn't timed. They literally had to finish and not die.

[Scott Galloway]

Really.

[Martin Luther King III]

That was the requirement. And, and, and there were some that we weren't sure we're going to pass. But, but now, now it's gotten so far the other way where we have, you know, we have groups that come in, athletic training staff, those types of things that help these guys and these, and these girls that get, you know, make sure that because these are the best athletes in the world. Now look, you're not going to beat Saquon Barkley to the goal line. But, but you have to be at a standard where you can be in position to see what you need to see. And I think that's something the league is, is aware of. But I, I, look, I love the idea. I don't know about. We can't have former Navy SEALs choking out coaches on the sidelines.

[Scott Galloway]

I didn't say that. They don't have to choke. That wasn't the point. The point is they're not going to be as apt. They're gonna have more respect than a guy who's a part time lawyer or full time lawyer or part time official. Guys served our country. They're gonna be a little less apt to.

[Martin Luther King III]

And we do have, you know, we have programs, you know, Mike Pereira has battlefields, ball fields. We've got a lot, you know, Mer, you know, with you, you what, what you've done with, with, with merging and all the things that I think we do have more people that are getting involved from. From the military into sports, whether it's officiating or other. Other areas. So I think that's. That's definitely something we need to explore.

[Scott Galloway]

So Dean and I, we got to tell you guys how we met. I got.

[Martin Luther King III]

First off, let me tell you, Jay's. I didn't know. I didn't know Jay had met Jay. But Jay, if you. And I just want everybody to know, Jay gives off this Persona. And look, we're both. We're both northeast guys, Jersey and New York. I'm Long island, he's Jersey. So. So he gives off that kind of Jersey, Long island douchebag vibe sometimes. I see that in a loving way. But you are not that at all. At all. But initially I was like, who is this guy that's coming in? And he was going to do a story, but, God, you could take off from.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, so I was coming in. Well, I definitely. I got the Jersey, New York attitude, that dickhead attitude, of course. Lovable asshole, right?

[Martin Luther King III]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

With a big heart. So I think that the big heart thing, people didn't realize, but I also. Look, my mental health. I created this character so people wouldn't really know me because I didn't feel worthy of the real J. Glazer. Like, I didn't think anybody like him. So I created the glaze, you know, this fighting joke, drinking, cursing. It's not too far off from who I am. But it's also. I. I definitely inflated.

[Martin Luther King III]

Sure. It's a version. It's. It's an advanced version. Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

But I hid the heart, I say over the years, right. And now I leave with my heart. But one of the things I always do, though, and I write my book, too, of the biggest things I do for my darkness, my gray is laughter. So I'm probably the biggest practical joker in the league, right? But whether it's at Fox or even a league, like, I do the craziest to people. And, like, I sent out a text message to the whole league one year, and I think I even sent the commissioner, hey, dude, some shit just went down. Your name came up. My phone's about to die. Call me at this number at the hotel. And when you called it, it was a sex chat line for like 599aminute.

[Martin Luther King III]

Yeah, that's perfect.

[Scott Galloway]

I had. I had people call for their. I never forget Mike Tomlin. Hey, bro. I called my team phone. I said, not my problem.

[Martin Luther King III]

Click.

[Scott Galloway]

Rex Ryan, too. Like, it was like all these guys straying.

[Martin Luther King III]

Well, Rex may have been calling that.

[Scott Galloway]

Line yeah, he would call it anyway, people. But some. I forget who the coach was. I think it was Rex that he heard the music and stuff from this porn line and he thought I was in a club. Stayed on like jj. So it's racking up the minutes, you know. And anyway, real, real quick on Rex.

[Martin Luther King III]

He sent me the greatest text message any coach has ever sent me. It was. He was with. I Forget it was 14 or 15. He was still with the Jets. Week one, they lose, and they. They get called for, like, 25 fouls. And he texts me after the game. He says, hey, if we're gonna get like that again next week, let me know, and I'll bring the lube. I mean, that. That. And I'm reading the text like, okay, all right, coach.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I mean, that's the greatest thing, is greatest character. So I play a lot of jokes. And I was at CBS at the time. I came in and do it since 902001 or something. What did you.

[Martin Luther King III]

Yeah, it was. It was early 2000s. Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

So settle on those live. And I come in to do a story for CBS Sportsline.com an inside story of what happens in the officiating department. So I come and I do this great story, but at first, I wrote a fake story and I had this story about how these guys gamble and they have fantasy football league, and, you know, this. That they'll find guys. Like. And I'm. I'm quoting guys, you know, what was your quote like? Because you were in charge of fines. Like, yeah, sure. Sometimes personal feelings come into whether we find a guy. I think it was Anthony Dorset, right?

[Martin Luther King III]

Anthony Dorset, Yeah. Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Sometimes we'll find him, but sometimes we won't find him because we liked his.

[Martin Luther King III]

Dad, because we like Tony Jordan.

[Scott Galloway]

This guy over here is a. So we'll find him 15 grand and you know, all these things like, oh, you have a fantasy football league, so, sure, we'll. We'll look the other way if a guy's on our team, you know, and Greg Aiello, who's the former head of PR for the league, he's in on it with me. He comes in and you tell him, right? He threw like 10 copies at all, right. And said what? He said, I let this guy in and this what you.

[Martin Luther King III]

Yeah, this is what we. Yeah, this is what. And. And people start looking at. And Jay wrote this fake story about all this stuff, and it was literally Lord of the Flies. You see people turning on each other, like, immediately, keep going.

[Scott Galloway]

They were like, I didn't say this.

[Martin Luther King III]

I Didn't say that. Yes, you did. I didn't say. And I'm just sitting back and I'm looking at Jay. I'm like, this.

[Scott Galloway]

No, I wasn't there at that point. You tell me after. Like, you were the only one.

[Martin Luther King III]

Like, yeah, I was like, guys, this is not real. Like, why are you. Like, literally, they just turned on each other. And I was like, this is ridiculous.

[Scott Galloway]

Like, I heard you say this, right? They're like, no, I did. Like, Pereira almost had a heart attack that day.

[Martin Luther King III]

Oh, my God. Yeah. Oh, no doubt. He crumbled like a house of cards.

[Scott Galloway]

That was my. By the way, I used to do this to a lot of coaches and GMs. I'd write fake articles and it would look perfect, right? And I would send it over and just guys would. Oh, they would collapse. And yeah, there was. Yeah, I did this several times. And, man, I had it down to a science, but I could figure out how to Photoshop.

[Martin Luther King III]

Yeah. We've been friends ever since. You know, could have went one. Could have went one of two ways. So, you know, I'm going to ask.

[Scott Galloway]

You this question I ask all my guests. Give me the one moment in your life. Could have been anything to unbreakable moment. Could have broken. You shouldn't and didn't. As a result, you came through the other side of that tunnel, stronger forever.

[Martin Luther King III]

That's a good question. So couple come to mind. But there was one. There was one time, and it was right around 2008, and I was at the. I was at the league office, and for me, you know, my background, I never officiated on the field. I didn't. I didn't come up. I'm very unique in that background. I started as an intern. I just. I was lucky enough to get an internship at the NFL. Officiating, had an opportunity, and I. And I took it. So I never officiated on the field. And I was basically told, not officially, but told, hey, listen, you'll never be the head of the department. You just. You never officiate on the field. It's a glass ceiling. You'll never do it. And I was struggling. I was struggling with it. I didn't know where my career was going to go. And sitting there. In 2008, I was married, didn't have kids yet, was struggling a little with. With my relationship and everything else. And. And it was really getting me to the point where I just was lost and in the league, had, at that point, had offered an enhanced severance package for people that were there. You Know, more than, more than 10 years. And I was, and I was like, am I going to leave the NFL? Am I going to leave this, this company that people would bend over backwards to work for? And I didn't know what I was going to do, but I knew that I was, I knew that I had the potential to run that department. And I, and I took a chance and I left. And I remember sitting in my office when this thing came across, reading this email, and I was like. And I struggled with it and left, started my own company, moved to, from New York to California, had my first son and, and who's, you know, you know how that goes. Incredible. Incredible. And then the league hired me back in, in 2012, and I became the head of the department in 2013. So I, I don't know, what if I, if I didn't go down that road, where would I be today? And I always think about that. Had I just kind of succumbed and, and, and kind of said, you know what, felt sorry for myself, where would I have ended up? And I have no idea. I don't know.

[Scott Galloway]

You got on yourself. Show them what it's like without me.

[Martin Luther King III]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I just bet on myself and, but believe me, I wasn't, it wasn't a no brainer. And I struggled with. I really did. And I said, you know, I could probably stay here like this and, and it would be okay, but I got to take that chance. It was, it was the scariest thing that I've ever done. Really. It really was from, from that standpoint and, and it worked out, thankfully.

[Scott Galloway]

Brother, I appreciate you, man. I. Look, I apologize for playing that joke in you back then. I apologize for pinning Spygate on you and Pereira. No, I actually don't apologize for either one, but I appreciate you joining me here.

[Martin Luther King III]

All right, man. Love you.

[Scott Galloway]

Love you, buddy.

[Jay Shetty]

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty. My latest episode is with financial expert Scott Galloway.

[Scott Galloway]

If you are doing a lot of side hustles, it's very, very difficult to be great at your main hustle. The only way you're going to build real wealth and economic security is to go all in on one thing. That is greatness. Focus.

Scott is a professor of marketing at NYU Stern School of Business.

[Jay Shetty]

Scott Galloway, Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Mary Kay McBrayer]

I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast the Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. This season explores women from the 19th century to now. Women who were murderers and scammers, but also women who were photojournalists, lawyers, writers and more. This podcast tells more than just the brutal, gory details of horrific acts. I delve into the good, the bad, the difficult, and all the nuance I can find because these are the stories that we need to know to understand the intersection of society, justice and the fascinating workings of the human psyche. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthusiastic, enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Scott Galloway]

Welcome to My Legacy. I'm Martin Luther King III and together with my wife, Andrea Waters King, and our dear friends Mark and Craig Kilburger.

[Martin Luther King III]

We explore the personal journeys that shape extraordinary lives. Join us for heartfelt conversations with remarkable guests like David Oyelowo, Mel Robbins, Martin Sheen, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, and Billy Porter.

[Bobby Bones]

Listen to My legacy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Martin Luther King III]

This is My Legacy.

[Bobby Bones]

Hey, it's Bobby Bones. Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday for our new podcast, Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle. Between us, we have over 17,500 passing yards, multiple New York Times bestsellers, and one mirrorball trophy from Dancing With a Star. So where else are you going to find a show with that much athleticism and football insight? We talk sports, but we talk pop culture and music and a little bit of everything. Listen to Lots to Say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.