What’s Wright - Best Of - First Things First's near cancelation to Emmy nomination, Wemby's MVP push, Luka's wild disrespect

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd: "What’s Wright - Best Of"

Date: March 28, 2026
Focus: First Things First's Emmy nomination and history, Victor Wembanyama’s MVP push, Luka Doncic’s MVP “disrespect,” and the NBA MVP landscape

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Overview

This episode is a "Best Of" selection from "What's Wright with Nick Wright," hosted by Dan Favale and Damanza. The episode’s central themes include the near-cancellation and subsequent Emmy nomination of the show "First Things First," passionate breakdowns of Victor Wembanyama’s (Wemby) case for league MVP, an exploration of how defense and offense are valued in MVP voting, and a deep dive into Luka Doncic’s historically overlooked dominance. The tone is candid, self-reflective, and debate-oriented, maintaining the personality-driven commentary familiar to regular listeners.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The First Things First Journey: From Near-Cancellation to Emmy Nod

Segment Start: [02:47]

• Nick Wright recounts the history of "First Things First," starting with its 2017 launch alongside Chris Carter and Jenna Wolfe. The show began in a challenging time slot and grew quickly, exceeding viewership expectations for a new, untested format.
• Early days: Nick admits feeling compelled to prove his intellect and out-debate his co-host, which was complicated by Carter's legendary athletic background and preference to avoid confrontation.
  • "My job was every day to prove to the audience how smart I was... while never actually entering into a debate which could turn into an argument with CeCe, because that's just not what he was trying to do."
    [04:30, Nick Wright]
• Fork-in-the-road moments:
  • Chris Carter’s sudden exit in 2018 sparked instability—there was no consistent co-host for over a year, allowing Wright to organically become the show's face.
  • The tragic death of Kobe Bryant in 2020 and doing a live show about it bonded the team profoundly, particularly Nick and Chris Broussard.
  • COVID-19 forced the crew to improvise, broadcasting from home without live sports and facing existential uncertainty about the show’s survival.
  • The addition of Kevin Wilds (KW) and later, after much internal debate, Chris Broussard (“Brew”) as full-time co-hosts helped solidify the show’s chemistry and quality.
• Ownership and leadership: Nick discusses the tough, pivotal choice to advocate for Broussard as a permanent co-host, resisting executive recommendations for another athlete, ultimately playing his “one card” to shape the show’s identity.
  • "If you feel real ownership over something and in your core, you know what the right call is, be willing to put some stakes to it… I had never once played a 'let me have this one' card. And it's the greatest thing ever happened in the show. Brew is perfect. He works as hard as anyone in the business. He is funny, he is never in a bad mood, and he is just the greatest guy to be around."
    [28:21, Nick Wright]
• Reflections on Emmy nomination: Nick is deeply proud of their nomination, especially standing alongside juggernaut ESPN programs. He credits sustained excellence, teamwork, and risk-taking as crucial.

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2. Victor Wembanyama’s (Wemby) Case for MVP: Defense and Hype

Segment Start: [33:56]

• Wemby’s Three-Point Argument:
  After a game, Wemby lists his MVP credentials:
  1. Defense as "50% of the game," which he says is undervalued in the MVP race.
  2. Head-to-head dominance against OKC (Oklahoma City Thunder).
  3. Offensive impact isn’t just points—he affects more aspects of the game.
  • Quote (Wemby): “Defense is 50% of the game and that is undervalued so far in the MVP race... Offense impact is not just points.”
    [34:02, Victor Wembanyama]
• Reactions:
  • Damanza supports players stumping for themselves: “I actually like it... I think Wemby deserves it.” [34:54, Damanza]
  • Dan Favale scrutinizes Wemby’s argument:
    • Traditionally, MVP voting does not treat defense and offense equally—there is a separate Defensive Player of the Year award, and even mediocre defenders have won MVPs.
      • “When it comes to individual impact... it has never been and should not be 50% defense, 50% offense. This is evidenced by the entire history of awards voting... we have the all NBA team and then a supplemental all-defense team. We have the Most Valuable Player award and then a supplemental Defensive Player of the Year.”
        [36:02, Dan Favale]
    • No “bad offensive players” have ever won MVP.
    • Wemby’s offensive production is solid, but Favale questions giving him “credit for things he has not done”—like hypothetically leading the league in scoring if his workload was higher.
    • The nuance: a singular talent can influence a team’s offense more directly than it can defense. While Wemby may be a generational defender, he is not currently a top-10 offensive player, and historically, MVPs must be transcendent on offense.
      • Quote: “What I’m not comfortable with is saying we know if he were taking way more shots and playing more minutes, he would be play to play as dominant defensively. Because what we have seen from every player across league history is as their offensive workload increases, their defensive impact tends to decrease a bit.”
        [40:12, Dan Favale]
    • Tim Duncan is the closest MVP comp, but Duncan was a stronger offensive player in his prime than current Wemby.
  • Favale’s MVP ballot (based on present performance):
    1. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
    2. Luka Doncic
    3. Wemby
    4. Jokic
    5. Cade Cunningham (though likely to fall off due to eligibility)
    6. Jalen Brown
    7. Jalen Brunson
       [44:17, Dan Favale]

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3. Luka Doncic: “Wild Disrespect” and Historical Comparison

Segment Start: [57:28]

• Jokic and Luka's MVP position:
  • Jokic: Recognized for near-historic consistency and team impact, but “not a guy that’s disrespected”—voters and the public appreciate his status.
  • Luka Doncic: Despite averaging 33+ points on a 50-win team (a milestone reached by legends like Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, and Embiid, all of whom won or nearly won MVP)—Luka faces “wild disrespect” in voting, landing outside the top two despite unprecedented numbers.
  • Quote:
    "In the last 60 years, here are the guys who averaged 33 or more on a 50-win team and their MVP finish... Wilt, Kareem, Michael, and Embiid won the MVP... Harden and Jordan came in second… then Luka Doncic, two years ago, came in a distant third... Luka this year, people think is going to finish third or maybe even fourth. Every other person to do this, either has won the MVP or come in second."
    [59:02, Dan Favale]
  • Favale attributes some of this to voter fatigue, Luka’s defensive limitations, and perhaps an overcompensation in focusing on two-way play for MVP consideration.
  • Damanza adds:
    “It is most valuable player, like you say... with what Wemby does on offense and the amount of shots that he affects on defense... together it makes him the most valuable player.”
    [46:54, Damanza]
  • Favale: "Luka is going to average 33 a game on a 50 plus win team and nobody cares but me. It's weird."
    [62:50, Dan Favale]

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4. Other NBA Notes: Jokic & Murray, MVP Race

Segment Start: [55:21]

• Jokic & Murray as a duo:
  • Among current NBA partners, they’re elite, but historically not on par with truly legendary tandems due to Murray’s inconsistency.
  • “Murray is simply not consistently that caliber of player... when Jamal Murray is rolling... they look as good as anybody ever. He’s just not consistently that guy. And it’s a testament to Joker’s greatness.”
    [55:32, Dan Favale]
• Jokic's performance: After triple-doubles and scoring explosions, Favale notes the public has grown “numb” to his offensive brilliance.
• Are we "forgetting" Jokic in MVP conversation? Not really, he’s rightfully high on ballots, but Luka’s numbers may be overlooked for aesthetic or narrative reasons.
• Jokic MVP recap: Three MVPs already; only additional titles will alter his legacy.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On post-Kobe show:
  “I remember when that show ended, hugging Brew and telling him, man, I literally could not have done this show without you out here, like, thank you. And it felt like that really bonded us.”
  [10:44, Nick Wright]

• On show survival during COVID:
  “At one point… was probably going to be canceled… I was setting up interviews for my older daughter for LA high schools... had kind of just come to terms with it. And then something changed and the show didn’t get canceled.”
  [14:19, Nick Wright]

• Summing up MVP realities:
  “There is a supplemental Defensive Player of the Year award. You know what we don't have? Offensive Player of the Year, because that would be redundant to MVP almost every season.”
  [36:14, Dan Favale]

• On Luka’s lack of MVP recognition:
  “Luka is going to average 33 a game on a 50 plus win team and nobody cares but me. It's weird.”
  [62:50, Dan Favale]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:47] — First Things First history and Emmy nomination discussion (Nick Wright monologue)
• [33:56] — Wemby’s MVP case, defense vs. offense debate
• [44:17] — Favale’s current MVP ballot
• [55:21] — Jokic & Murray's place among NBA duos
• [57:28] — Jokic and Luka MVP discussion; Luka’s historical context
• [59:02] — Historical MVP data and Luka’s “disrespect”
• [62:50] — Closing reflection on MVP voting inconsistency

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Summary

This episode blends a heartfelt "inside baseball" look at sports television’s perseverance with robust, sophisticated debates on the NBA MVP race. The transformation of First Things First into an Emmy-nominated show serves as a lesson in risk-taking, advocacy, and personal conviction. Meanwhile, the hosts deliver a reality check on MVP criteria, spotlighting Victor Wembanyama’s genuine, if sometimes over-hyped, brilliance and Luka Doncic’s paradoxical underappreciation in historical MVP voting. The episode is rich with personal stories, funny asides, and passionate sports analysis—a rewarding listen for anyone interested in both the business and the game.

Transcript

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[Dan Favale]

best of the week for what's right with Nick Wright. The best takes and moments from this week on the show. Enjoy.

[Damanza]

Huge news. Congratulations to you and your show. First Things first was nominated for most outstanding sports, the most outstanding SP studio. Shoemi has wimby inspired you to campaign for the award?

[Dan Favale]

I'm not going to campaign for the award but I am going to be a touch self indulgent here. But also I, I'm going to spend a bit of time on this because I think this is instructive for people in there at any. I think there are lessons. Lessons. Sounds patronizing. I think there might be some wisdom shared here and that sounded pretty patronizing too.

[Damanza]

Some.

[Dan Favale]

As far as. Yeah, the, the story of the TV show. And listen, I don't know if we're going to win the Emmy. Um, but I, and I know the, maybe the proper thing, certainly the cool thing is to say I don't care but I, I care deeply about being nominated for this every year. When these nominations came out, I got upset that we were not included and I thought for some time maybe not even considered now to be fair, there was a period of time where we didn't deserve to be considered. But for people that are, you know, newish to this show or First Things First, I will try as briefly as I can to kind of give the history of the show because again, there are some fork in the road moments that I think are instructive. So September Labor Day 2017, the show launches. 2017, it is me, Chris Carter and Jenna Wolf. And in pretty short order the show was solid and I think, you know, it had some documented growing rating success at a time slot where FS1 had never had a show before that show. The show used to start at 6:30am Eastern so 3:30am Pacific and go three hours, 6:30am to 9:30am and before the end of our first football season, we had an episode where we had more than a hundred thousand viewers which I think was way, way beyond what realistic goals were for not only a new show, not only a new show involving someone that me that nobody knew, but a show that there had nobody ever Woke up to FS1, you know, historically, because we didn't have live programming on that and, but that show was very different and people that watched it, you know, know it. The. I didn't know what I was doing. I thought My job was every day to prove to the audience how smart I was. I thought my job was every day to just be armed with all of the data, all of the facts, all of the information to win any potential debate that popped up, while also weighing that with the fact that my partner and the person fronting the show, Chris Carter, who was so good to me personally and so good to my family and my wife and my kids and who I had a real deep personal relationship and friendship with, he was not really trying to argue. And so I, and as much as I believe Chris respected my intellect and my work ethic, he certainly did not think if he and I disagreed on football or basketball, for that matter, that I had a leg to stand on. He obviously was one of the greatest football players of all time and also had 100 Division 1 college basketball scholarships. His brother coached in the NBA. And so I was that first year plus always kind of doing a dance, figuring out how to, as strongly as I could, make my case for something, give my opinion, while never actually entering into a debate which could turn into an argument with cece, because that's just not what he was trying to do. And it was his show. And so there were a lot of moments where, and I'm not really a fold your hand guy, where I had really no other choice but to kind of fold my hand. But, but it was still great, was on TV every day. The show was growing and we were headed in a really positive direction along with the network when Undisputed was really starting to hum. They were on after us. Collins been great throughout the show. On after Colin, he, at that point in time, he was still a part of. He would do the Herd and then also do Speak for Yourself. And the network was really rolling and then late October of 2018, so the show's now been on for 14 months. I get a phone call that Chris and Fox have parted ways. And the, you know, I, I, it's been eight years. It's something I've never really talked about, but quality, irreconcilable differences. And I show up to work the next day. I think the first day was Halloween 2018. And they're like, well, listen, you know, Chris Canty has been a great guest of ours. He's going to do a lot of stuff. Greg Jennings will still come in. Coach Mangini. Greg and Coach were there from day one. Those guys will, you know, still be a part of the rotation. And we will just kind of do, you know, a rotating co host while we figure out, you know who's going to be full time, what's what. And that went from the rotating co host thing From October of 2018 to we are now in February of 2020 and there is still not a full time co host. And while that was, you know, to be obviously not the best thing for the stability of the show and Chris Canty did an awesome job because he was, he was there more than anybody. We also during the NBA, Chris Broussard started being a part of it. It's how I really got to know Broussard. And while it wasn't that, that lack of stability wasn't what was, you know, really best, I think for the show's growth, it certainly allowed me to put my stamp on it. And for, you know, almost by default, a show that was never supposed to be my show became my show. And then in January, February of 2020, Kevin Wilds, who was, you know, in the running and he himself bowed out of being on the show when it launched, had decided he did want to do it and they brought KW in. And then of course when I say February of 2020, we are approaching Covid. But right before COVID was the 2019 Super bowl, which was in January of 2020 or February of 2020. KW is now, you know, getting ready to be or is already a part of the show. And the Sunday night of super bowl week when we are about to do a three hour live show in basically the middle of the night from wherever that super bowl was, it was Miami, I think, so it wasn't really the middle of the night, but at 6:30 in the morning we find out that Kobe Bryant's helicopters crashed and we are going to be doing a three hour show the first day of super bowl week with a live studio audience reacting to this unspeakable tragedy. And I remember specifically requesting that Chris Broussard, who was there in case any basketball stories popped up during super bowl week, could he host the entire show with me, me with the crew? Could he be there for the whole thing? And Brew, to his credit, said yes. And we did those three hours together, which were just I the impossible in retrospect to think about. Kobe had lost. You know, obviously Kobe died, but it was also other adults and a bunch of young girls, including Kobe's daughter. And I remember when that show ended, hugging Brew and telling him, man, I literally could not have done this show without you out here, like, thank you. And it felt like that really bonded us. And then, you know, six weeks later the world shuts down and we still don't have a full time co host. We still don't really know, you know, exactly what's what. And Covid hits and all of a sudden we're doing the show from our house with no live sports on. And I might get some of this timeline a little wrong and I apologize for the length of this, but there's a. I'm glad I'm finally kind of putting this full thing out there. And at one point during the first call it 12 months of COVID I'm told by folks who would know not sure if we're going to continue with the show. We never landed on the co host. The, you know, there's no sports on that. If you guys remember the sports economy and advertiser economy at that time, like the show was on what. Not thin ice, but it was. I was given a heads up that it was probably going to be canceled. Three years and four years into the show again, I don't remember if this is late 2020 or early 2021. And I don't know what changed over the next two months other than, you know, maybe I had, you know, the people. I don't know what changed, but I know all of a sudden it went from me telling my wife and daughters that I think we're going to probably move to la, that I think that, you know, I've established myself well enough with Fox that even if they cancel the show, I think they will have, they'll want to keep me around. I'm under contract and you know, but I think we're going to have to move to la. I was, I was setting up interviews for my older daughter for LA high schools. I had my pal Maverick had, you know, made sent, made some calls for me where, you know, his friend's kids went to school and like the, this is what was happening. Like I had kind of just come to terms with it. And then something changed in the show didn't get canceled and they were, they were adding a full time co host and it was going to be Brandon Marshall and we were still doing the show from our house and that was the 2021, I think football season. And we did Brandon, me, Wilds and Jenna did that show for a year with Brew being our basketball guest coaching, Greg still being on the show as guests. And it was fine. Brandon and I had a good relationship, but it was also weird. Brandon and Wilds did a show together for a year. Never once met in person. Brandon was in Florida, he was still coveted. We were still doing it from our houses. Everything was remote. And then Brandon decided he didn't want to do, you know, renew. And we're approaching going back in studio. And this is. I gave that whole background, but this is the moral of the story and the reason I'm. I'm telling this and spending a half hour on this. In that moment, we knew that Jenna was moving on. KW's role was going to change a little bit. And they were discussing with me thoughts on who the person opposite me should be. And out of respect, all the. To these people, I'm not gonna say who they were. All talented, all people I like or had good relationships with, and all former athletes. And I knew in my absolute core that the best person for the show, the guy who worked the hardest, had the best relationship, we had the best chemistry with, and who had the best disposition and was the most reliable was Brew. And I also knew that I had, you know, probably one time I could play the card of, let's not do what you're suggesting. Trust me. And it was. I really debated whether or not that was even smart to do. Because if you do what, you know, your bosses or whatever are suggesting and you register, I don't know if it's the best idea, but, yeah, I'll go with it. And then it doesn't work or something happens, that's not as much on you. It's like, well, I, you know, I said, but if you say, hey, I know this is right and I'll take the hit if I'm wrong, if it doesn't work, that is on you. And in that moment, I knew Wild thought it should be Brew. I knew in my core that because I listened to Bruce radio show, I was like, these guys think he's just a basketball guy. He does a daily radio show every night, talks about football every day. Plus, I also knew from my own history, I was like, I am so such an annoying person to argue with that there is something in my experience for former athletes, particularly former football players, that if every single day they got to argue with me, something in their brain activates. A few months in and they're like, man, I used to put guys like him in the damn locker. He's telling me, who the better quarter. Shut up. And one of the reasons I think Greg and Coach have been so great for eight years on the show is by around Thursday, certainly by Friday of a week of dealing with my nonsense, they know, all right, I'm about to get a week away from this idiot and they can reset. And so I just really didn't Think going with another former athlete was going to work. And I advocated in the strongest possible terms along with Wilds. We all agree. Me, Wilds, Brew, let it run. Just see. And even after that happened, after that, once that was like agreed upon. In the 23rd hour they I was presented with hey, we got it done with Brew. He's going to be on the show. But we think we are going to add a fourth person full time, not Coach or Greg. They will still be on the show in their current role but in every segment full time person and we think we know who it is. And I, I laid down in traffic on it and said let, let us have this shot. And that was August of 2020. What? Hold on, am I, do I have this? No. That was August of 2022, right? 2, 3, 4, 5. Yeah, we've done four football seasons together. Aug, that was August of 2022 and. I believe By August of 2023, me, wild and Brew along with Coach and Greg and the amazing folks who work on the show behind the scenes have the best show on sports tv. And that's why being nominated for that award was so gratifying. I understand there's been a half hour of self indulgence but the lesson, there is a real lesson there which is if, if you feel ownership over something and I listen, I try to be very consistent and I'm being very honest when I talk about this is a collaborative effort but I feel real ownership over this show. We are all equal part partners in it. But I, the I, it's why when we were moving to the afternoons, the other thing that I was adamant about is don't change the name. They were like, yeah, but we named it First Things first because it's a morning show, I'm like don't change the name, let us keep it. Because I felt a real connection to it. But if you feel real ownership over something and in your core, you know what the right call is, be willing to put some stakes to it. Going along to get along can be smart in certain instances accumulating good coworker, good colleague, not being a pain in the ass chips along the way is super valuable because I had never once played a let me have this one card And I've only played it once really since then. I mean that's the only time that I've played it, I should say since then. And it's the greatest thing ever happened in the show. Brew is perfect. He is works as hard as anyone in the business. He is funny, he is never in A bad mood and he is just the greatest guy to be around. The greatest guy. We've never had a real fight ever. KW is one of the smartest television, sports television creators ever. He created really good shows, was behind the scenes, has all these amazing instincts and then like we've had this, this awesome group of people behind the scenes. Matt Katanik was our original executive producer. He then moved on to Breakfast Ball. He then moved on to other stuff a couple years ago. Sam Pepper was the brains behind the show for years. He then, you know, left and now is the brains behind the Manning cast and two guys who have been with the show for the only people who've been with the show from day one as far as producers not like or Christine and wardrobe and Danielle, my wife and wardrobe been there from day one. But the people who put the TV show together been there from day one are me guy named Stephen Hubbard and Dustin Waite. Dusty started as my researcher and now is the producer of the show. And Hub started as, I don't know an ap like a low level producer and now is an executive at the company and the executive producer of the whole afternoon block. We've been working together for eight and a half years, the three of us and, and so I again maybe this is a bad use of time and maybe people have skipped ahead or they've tuned out. However, I don't know if we're going to win. I do know that nominated for that best sports studio Show Emmy is ESPN's flagship NBA show. ESPN's flagship NFL show. ESPN's flagship. This is where all the biggest guests in the world go rate, you know, radio slash YouTube slash TV show and McAfee and Sports center, the defining sports highlight show of, you know, in television history. Those four shows and us. And I am, I'm really, really, really proud of it. And it is a gratifying thing every day to work on something where so many people work so hard. And I didn't mention all the behind the scenes folks because I terrified that I will, you know, mention 9 of 10 and leave someone out and but people work really hard and people care and it's just really gratifying to work on something that you feel like is good and I feel like it's good and I don't think we not I don't think I know the only way first things first is ever nominated for anything is if it's me Wilds and brew out there doing it. And I'm really, really, really grateful. Those guys are my partners. Deeply grateful. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet, Florida's Sportsbook. If your brackets already busted, you're not alone. But don't worry, you can still call the next big upset and turn your picks into payday on Hard Rock Bet. All tournament long. Hard Rock Bet is rolling out daily dance and boosts featuring a live profit boost and a parlay profit boost every single day. That's more ways to shoot your shot and cash in with boosted odds. 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[Casual Shopper 1]

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[Casual Shopper 2]

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[Casual Shopper 1]

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[Damanza]

So Wemby made his case for MVP after the game and oppressor and here's what he had to say.

[Discover Card Advertiser]

My first one would be that defense is 50% of the game and that is undervalued so far in the MVP race. Second argument would be that we almost swept OKC in the season and we dominated him. My third argument would be that offense impact is not just points.

[Dan Favale]

Okay, so before I even get to the actual merits of his point, what do you like dislike or you're ambivalent Damanze on him stumping for I know he was asked the question he was asked what are your three point but that he is stumping for himself to win mvp.

[Damanza]

I I actually like it because I feel like some guys probably go the opposite way and they might feel on the Met in the in themselves that they should be MVP and might not be saying it and I think Wimby deserves it.

[Dan Favale]

I I like it oh, so you think he is the mvp?

[Damanza]

Yeah, I'd say that's pretty fair to say. And I also just like Wimby.

[Dan Favale]

Yeah, and you don't like. You don't like the Thunder. Okay, so let me go through his points because Brew and I got into a more heated than is typical for our show argument, discussion, whatever yesterday about kind of Luca versus Wimby. And the first point people make is the one he made, which is defense is half the game. And that sounds smart and that sounds correct. Except for the fact that when it comes to winning MVP of the league, defense is not and has never been half the game. And when it comes to individual impact a player can have, it has never been and should not be 50% defense, 50% offense. This is evidenced by the entire history of awards voting up to and including Damanza. The awards we have to give out, we have the all NBA team, the 15 best players in the league, and then a supplemental all defense team.

[Damanza]

Yep.

[Dan Favale]

You know what? We don't have the all offense team. You know why? Because they're like, yeah, that pretty much just be the all NBA team. We have the Most Valuable Player award and then a supplemental award called Defensive Player of the Year. You know what? We don't have Offensive Player of the Year because that would be redundant to MVP almost every season. Furthermore, just this century, we have had damn near 10 MVP seasons by objectively bad defensive players. Yeah, both Steve Nash years, Dirk's year, some would argue Russell Westbrook's year, certainly James Harden's year, Steph's years, at least one or two of Joker's years. Certainly the first one. I. Yeah. So now those are all again, varying levels of bad defenders. Yeah. But they are at best me. Joker's gotten way better defensively, I should say, by the way, somewhere from mediocre to, in Nash's case, downright damaging. Steph's first year, he was, they were a great defense despite him his first year winning mvp. Now let me go ahead and ask folks this question. This century or any century, how many league MVPs have we had where they're downright bad offensive players? The answer is none. It is not how we now Wimby saying he thinks that's a flaw in the system.

[Damanza]

Yeah.

[Dan Favale]

And Wimby's defense is so sensational that maybe it bends the rules a bit on impact an individual defensive player can have on the game.

[Damanza]

He also affects the the offensive side pretty well too though, right? Does he not?

[Dan Favale]

So, so that's what I want to discuss here. Because this is where Brew and I got into it a bit. Okay, but let me stay on the defense just for a second, then I'll get there. Okay. So I do agree, when it comes to a team winning the championship, defense is as important as offense. And history backs that up. And in fact, a truly elite, elite defense has been as big, if not slightly bigger historical signifier of championship chances than an elite offense. And so team wise, I, I agree with that. Take the distinction is one singular talent can impact a team's offense. More than one singular talent can impact a team's defense. And again, Wimby might actually be changing those rules in real time. Like his ability. He. He might be an unprecedented defensive performer with defensive impact. And then we get to Wimy's offense, which is where I am not comfortable for someone we have never seen do it. Assign them the ability or the credit for doing things they don't do. It's one thing when Kevin Durant goes to Golden State, if people are like, well, he could be averaging 30 plus. It's like, well, yeah, we've seen him do it a bunch. Wimby averages 24 points and three assists a game. And folks seem to want to say, yeah, but he could average 30. It's just not how the spurs do things. Okay, I'm not, I am not going to say that you get to have everything when it comes to your MVP argument. And by that I mean this. Folks seem to believe that the spurs, as Brew puts it, egalitarian style of basketball is what's best for their ability to win games. Okay, so if Wimby took more shots, maybe they would have a slightly worse record. He shouldn't get the MVP boost from the better record. That is caused by the style they play. And then also a boost of. But hypothetically, he could be averaging more points. Unless in that hypothetical, we're also going to draw away a few of the wins. That's first point. Second point is this. I don't know if Wimby would be quite as impactful defensively if they added to his offensive workload. So what I'm not comfortable with is saying we know if he were taking way more shots and playing more minutes, he would be play to play as dominant defensively. Because what we have seen from every player across league history is as their offensive workload increases, their defensive impact tends to decrease a bit. Kawhi Leonard is a great example. Kawhi Leonard's best defensive seasons were before he became the team's number one offensive option. And it is Now, Tim Duncan would be the argument as to a guy who won MVPs without gaudy offensive numbers. I would argue MVP Duncan was a better offensive player than Wimby is at the moment. But I don't think right now Victor when Benyama as great as he is. And again, I'm not trying to be the anti Wimby guy, but it does seem like there's the, the. There is a bit of a. Gone too far or is it just a touch? Just. It feels like it is an ongoing contest for Wimby hyperbole at the moment. And so here is the question that I would have and this is where, you know one of the arguments Brew and I got in yesterday, I don't think Wimby, if we are evaluating just offense just as offensive players. I don't think he is one of the 10 best offensive players in the sport yet. Doesn't mean he won't be. But I think, and I'm gonna do this off top of my head, I think Shay is a better offensive player. I think Joker's a better offensive player. Player. I think Luka is a better offensive player. I think Ant is a better offensive player. I think Steph Curry is a better offensive player. I think Devin Booker is a better offensive player. I think Donovan Mitchell is a better offensive player. I think if we're going to give him assume he gets back to himself. I think Jason Tatum is a better offensive player. I think Cade Cunningham is a better offensive player. The one I threw out yesterday that Brew lost his mind on. But I thought was like kind of. I was shocked there was so much pushback. I think Tyrese Halliburton is a better offensive player. And I think we're seeing how much of that offense was reliant on him. But even if you want to take Tyrese out, who am I? Oh, Jalen Brunson I think is a better offensive player. And I am not saying Wimby won't get there. I am not saying Wimby that maybe he is already there and we're just not seeing it. But what I'm not comfortable with is saying he gets credit for things he has not done, he is not doing and he has not yet done. And so I think that if, if I were right now voting for league mvp, my ballot would go number one, Shay. Number two, Luca. Number three, Wimby. Number four, Joker. Number five, Cade. But Cade's going to fall off for eligibility, so Jalen Brown would take his spot. That's. That's what my. And again if we want so I guess right now technically I've Cade 5 Jalen Brown 6 Jalen Brunson 7 is how I would stack it with assuming Cade's going to lose out on the spot but there are people are so fascinated by what Wimby is already doing that we're doing some weird psycho psychological things on so go ahead it is

[Damanza]

it is most valuable player like you say Wimby's averaging 24323 and 3 right now SGA is averaging 316 I think it is most valuable player I think that with what Wimby does on offense and the amount of shots that he affects on defense I think together it makes him the most valuable player like in my opinion like I think that's

[Dan Favale]

how I think of it so I get that like I know and I no no no and together you know no I totally understand that what what I'm saying is I think we have Wimby is but statistically the exact same guy he was last year Last year is 2411 and 3 this year is 2411 and 3 Efficiency is the same I guess you can argue he got better defensively but it feels like he has been basically the best defender in the league since the moment he walked into the league and to me the big difference is the spurs team around him has gotten so much better now we can now the spurs defense he is the sun, the moon and the stars for that I don't feel that way about their offense. I don't think like Wimby's presence dramatically makes de' Aaron Fox a better offensive player or the Harper and Castle are blue chip guys. Yeah and so and I think it is noteworthy that they're 10 and 5 in the 15 games he hasn't played. It's not again I'm not negging his case but it's not as if they fall apart entirely without him and so if we are I the the guy who by eye test the team is team is absolutely most reliant on to be anything is joker now they actually went on I think they did decent the time he missed but it just watching them it feels like everything revolves around him entirely and I'm not it just feels like people are pressing fast forward and have been throughout Wimby's career I in the you know my pal Bill Simmons yesterday on his pod for a reason I still don't totally understand did a Wimby's in year three but I want to compare him to all of the best year twos ever and part of now I understood why he wanted to do that when it came to Duncan and Kareem, guys who played four years in college. But like LeBron was younger than Wimby when he came out of school. And LeBron in year three was second in the MVP race and averaged 31 points a game. And LeBron when he was younger than Wimby is right now, took a team to the NBA finals. And so the Jordan in his rookie year, rookie year Michael Jordan was 28 a game. Jordan's year two, he got hurt. Jordan's year three averaged 37. So like I.

[Damanza]

So you feel similar about like Josh Allen. You think a similar thing is being done just like kind of pushing someone.

[Dan Favale]

This is actually very different than Allen because Allan was not this fe at phenom like this. This started for Wimy before he was drafted. This was, you know, wo saying people think by his third year he can be the best offensive and defensive player in the league. And again, offensively, I think he's a real. I don't think he's a great offensive player yet. I don't. I think he's a really good offensive player, far and away the best defensive player in the league. And if that is enough to make him league MVP on a two seed, so be it. Like, I don't think it's outrageous to say he's league mvp. What I am saying is this. And because a lot of this has come up in the LUCA MVP discussion. Well, defense is half the game and for the MVP award. No, it is not and it never has been. And the last five guys to win defensive player of the year didn't, you know, got a combined. The five, five guys who won defensive player of the year got a combined 1 5th place MVP vote between the five guys five seasons. If defense were half the game when it comes to voting for mvp, then they be. So I just, I don't think that is how it's been done. And so there's my 30 minutes on Wimby and the MVP award. Boost Mobile proving you don't have to overpay for great wireless. Unlock the savings with $25 a month forever unlimited plan. It's a permanent price with no contracts and no price hikes. You can keep your phone and your number, but you save up to $600 a year compared to the major carriers. Stop overpaying and switch to a fair [e-mail] today based on average annual single line payment of AT&T Verizon and T Mobile customers compared to 12 months of the Boost Unlimited plan as of January 2026. For full offer details, visit boost mobile.com

[Verizon Advertiser]

all right, two truths and a Lie Here we go. I went to college with college football coach Jim McElwain, I began my broadcasting career doing play by play for the Las Vegas Stars, and I've been a Verizon customer for 15 years. Okay, I lied. All three are true. Verizon isn't as expensive as you think. In fact, if you bring in your AT&T or T mobile bill to a Verizon store, they'll give you a better deal. That's right, a better deal on the best network with the most ways to save on plans, streaming and phone deals. So take that AT and T or T mobile bill to your local Verizon store today. Get a better deal and start saving based on root metrics. Best Overall Mobile Network Performance U.S. 2nd Half 2025 All Rights Reserve must provide recent Consumer Mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public

[Public Investing Disclosure]

Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

Complete Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures thy Ticket

[Casual Shopper 2]

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[Dan Favale]

With the times.

[Casual Shopper 1]

You're playing the loot.

[Casual Shopper 2]

Yeah, and it sounds pretty good, right?

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[Damanza]

So Jokic had a near 20, 20 and 20 game. Murray went over 50. Where would you rank these guys in the list of duos over the NBA?

[Dan Favale]

So here's the thing. I mean, if we're talking about like contemporary right now, they're obviously as good as anybody, right? Historically here, the. Here's what I'll say about Jokic and Murray. It's hard to rank them anywhere historically because Murray is simply not consistently that caliber of player to where he. All of the great, the truly great duos that we talk about, you have a legend and an all time great and whether that's magic and worthy, Bird and McHale, Jordan and Pippin, Shaq and Kobe, that's two legends there. Duncan and Tony or Duncan and Manu, Braun and Wade, Braun and Kyrie, Stephen, Clay, Katie and Steph. Jamal Murray, when Jamal Murray is rolling like he was last night, they are. They look as good as anybody ever. He's just not consistently that guy. And it's a testament to Joker's greatness. And I'm not. Listen, Jamal Murray scored 50 last night against the Tanking Mavs. I, I'm not taking anything away from the guy, but I don't, I don't look at them as anything close to an all time great duo. Now, maybe they peel the title this year from the four of the five line. Maybe we look at them differently, but right now, I don't look at them like that. I know you have another Joker question.

[Damanza]

Yeah. So he's gone 60, 50 and 50 over his last three games. Are we forgetting about him in the MVP race, you think?

[Dan Favale]

Listen, I don't. I think I have him fourth. I know a lot of people have him third over Luca. I would like to just, if I may, for a moment make the Luca. Well, let me talk Joker and then I'm going to pull up this Luca note. Okay. Are we a little numb to Joker's consistent offensive excellence? Sure. I think that's fair has because he has been so. It's not like he's short on accolades. The guy's got three MVPs. Okay. He's got the same number of MVPs is Larry Bird. He's one short of LeBron. So he's not a guy that. It's like. Well, you know, he's disrespected. Far from it. He is to a point in his career where there is not much to do other than win more. And that's why, that's why we are somewhat numb to these crazy numbers. And speaking of being numb to the numbers, Luca just averaged 40 a game on a road. A six plus game road trip that has not been done since Michael Jordan 40 years ago. 40 a game over a six game road trip. Last guy to do it, Jordan in 1986. Luka also is going to average 33 plus on a 50 win team. And this is where I will get a little upset, so to speak. Demons A In the last 60 years here are the guys who averaged 33 or more on a 50 win team and their MVP finish. Wilt in 1966 he won it. I want to make sure I'm right about that. Yeah, of course I am. Wilton 66, 33 and a half a game on a 50 win Sixers team. He won it. Kareem in year two. 35 a game on a Bucks team that went on to win the title. He won the MVP. Jordan in 88. 35 a game on a 50 win Bulls team. He won the MVP. Jordan in 90, 33 a game on a 50 plus win Bulls team. He came in second. Okay, James Harden 36 a game on a 50 plus win Rockets team. In 2019 he came in second as the defending league MVP. So Jordan and Harden, when you first

[Damanza]

said I was like James Harden didn't do it recently?

[Dan Favale]

No, no, he did it in 2019. He came in second in voting, but he had won it the previous year. Jordan did it in 90 after doing it in 88 and winning MVP there. Joel Embiid in 2023 average 33 a game for a 50 plus win. Sixers team, he won it. So we have in the last 60 years will Kareem, Michael and Embiid won the MVP for 33 plus on a 50 win team. Jordan came in second another time when he had already won an MVP. Harden came in second when he had already won an MVP. And then Luka Doncic two years ago, 34 a game on a 50 win team came in a distant third. Four first place votes out of a hundred four. And Luka Doncic this year who people think is going to finish third or maybe even fourth. Every other person to do this, this high volume of scoring on this good of a team either has won the MVP or come in second. And the guys who came in second had already won MVPs except for Luca who did it once already before and that year came in third in MVP voting. But it was 79 votes. Yacht or Jokic, 15 Shay 4 for Luca. And Luca this year who people think is going to finish either a distant third or fourth, probably with only two or three first place votes for I think that's I think we are approaching a bit of lunacy when it comes to recognizing his utter and complete dominance as an offensive player. And I think we've overstated. Here's the thing. Is Luke a good defender? No. Do the Lakers does the Lakers defense go from an average defense with Luke on the court to a horrific defense with Luke off the court? 115 versus 121 they do. So I just. I Luke is going to average 33 a game on a 50 plus win team and nobody cares but me. It's weird.

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[Dan Favale]

Nice.

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