← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
What's Wright - Knicks vs. Spurs NBA Finals PREDICTIONS, Myles Garrett & A.J. Brown TRADED, Thunder MORTIFYING loss
01:18:36
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Podcast Announcer
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This is the story of the One. As a maintenance engineer at a beverage manufacturing plant, he starts his day knowing every line is ready to run because Grainger delivers the industrial grade products he needs to keep mixers, conveyors and packaging equipment moving. With Grainger's vast selection of bearings, belts and motors, he keeps operations running smoothly so nothing grinds to a halt. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.
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Ty Butler
Hey guys, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe.
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Nick Wright
I'm Kevin.
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Nick Jonas
And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called hey Jonas.
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Nick Wright
We invented a podcast.
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Nick Jonas
Well, we didn't invent it.
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Nick Wright
We.
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Nick Jonas
We just contributed to it.
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Nick Wright
We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.
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Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.
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Nick Wright
Listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio
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Ty Butler
app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.
- [01:06]
Nick Wright
Welcome in what Drive with Nick Wright, episode 462. This episode of what Driving the Grid is presented to you by our dear friends at Boost Mobile. Massive amount of things to get into today, but I'm going to tell you on the front end, two things. One is this. I'm a little. A little resentful towards the NFL, which at this point is probably my favorite sports league for once again land grabbing what previously was an obvious NBA time of the calendar. They already eviscerated Christmas to where that's just now a football day with basketball in the background. And they put their football games on streamers so you can't even easily flip back and forth on on Christmas between one game or another, which I think was intentional. And now the beginning of June is just final stuff, basketball stuff. But all of a sudden, this June 1 date, which used to just be a salary cap designation, they're like, no, we're going to make massive trades on it. Miles Garrett traded. A.J. brown traded. We will get to those. Technically, we should lead the show with those. It's the newest thing. However, it's the damn Finals, so we're going to lead with the finals. Also, the other thing I need to tell you, Demanze is going to be out for a few days here and there for a number of reasons. He's got a project he's working on that's very cool that I'm excited for you guys to be able to see. But also the other thing is this. We just got, and by we I mean me. I just got my like year one revenue share check for this podcast because we've been with the volume for a year. And I thought about the fact that Damanze is not what they call a profit participant in the show. He makes a nice living. I pay him for his work, but the, the extra little gravy on top goes to me. And so I was like, you know what? He probably doesn't have to work every single day I work since he doesn't have quite the upside. Or with that said, I am not doing today's show solo. Instead joining us today with the first person to ever, ever co host this show that is not related to me, my former producer at Mad Dog Sports Radio, Ty Butler. We can slide them onto the screen. Ty. Ty, it is great to see you. How are you, my friend?
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Ty Butler
I'm going to be honest, Nick, when I got that text from you this morning, I told Cassie, my wife, I don't know what to do. Like, I'm shaking. Like, this is just surreal. So I'm excited to be on with you because, listen, because you mentioned at you mentioned there that we go back to Sirius xm. And I remember before you left you said we will work together again someday. And I guess this is that someday. So this is that.
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Nick Wright
And by the way, Ty, if you're a New York, if you're a New Yorker, you can hear Ty every Sunday morning from 8 to noon on ESPN New York. You can follow him on Twitter at Tidy Butler and on Instagram at the same handle and the your YouTube show. Promote your YouTube show on the front. And before we get into the show, that is just promote your YouTube show for me, if you would.
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Ty Butler
The Ty Butler Show. You can see the logo back here. We hop on pretty much every single day. So just subscribe to the YouTube channel Ty Butler on YouTube.
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Nick Wright
Ty D. Butler on YouTube is perfect. All right, professional broadcaster, great to see you. We will get to the NBA Finals in just a moment. But first as, oh, a couple other things quickly. We're gonna do another mailbag episode on Friday, so send in your mailbag questions. However you put them in today's chat might be the easiest way to do it. Reply to us on Twitter, whatever you want. And one programming Note on the TV show, the reopening of Club Superstar. Our fifth edition today at 4:00pm Eastern. All right, straight to voicemail, brought to you by Boost Mobile Russell Wilson officially headed to tv. They're not calling it a retirement, but he's taking another job. Odell Beckham Jr. Returning to the Giants and Serena Williams. This is dope coming out of retirement. I the which by the way, great take by the producers. I now no longer have a honeydew cup from what will be Serena's final match ever since she's coming out of retirement quickly tie very quickly on the Giants because you are you a Giants fan or no, you're a Jets fan. Jets fan. Come on. Yeah, I remember that Rogers thing that listen, Odell's on the minimum. He might not make the team. Juju Smith's on the minimum. He might not make the team. Braxton Barrios, I think was the other one is on the minimum. He not might not make the team. But I would be, if I were a Giants fan, a little anxious, a little anxious about Malik Neighbor's health. And that is not just because I saw the video of him hobbling to first base in that charity softball game. I would just be a little nervous about it. So there is that. But I said I didn't want to start with football. Spurs, Knicks, it's 1999 all over again. Let's go to game seven, Ty.
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Ty Butler
It's also the NBA cup all over again. A rematch of the cup where the Knicks beat the spurs. And unfortunately, Nick, yet another wrong playoff prediction for you, man. So the spurs take the spurs take Game 7 on the road in Oklahoma City. They are in the finals for the first time since 2014. Another painful memory for you. How about Wimy though? He becomes the youngest player in NBA history to lead a conference finals in scoring. And after the game, uncharacteristically, Wimpy was very emotional. Let's take a listen.
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Nick Wright
Work all all these hours we put in, it's for these type of emotions, Like I want that I want to win so bad. It's like my life depends on it. So listen, here's where I come out on that because I love how much he cares. I think it's impossible not to like how much he cares. I also one of my themes and we will get into the nitty gritty of the series in the game seven in a moment. One of my kind of themes of WIMBY commentary this year has been that I do think he has been put into a separate box by a lot of the media as far as what typically we like don't like get criticizes, doesn't get criticized. And I oddly think his reaction to making the finals applies it falls into that same bucket where it was it in some ways it was really cool and in some ways I have to think think if you're a Spurs fan it was a little, a little concerning that oh man, was this their championship? What and by the way that would. It wouldn't be. You would understand why they might feel that way. None of those guys, none of the key components on that team, just Cornette and Barnes have been to a finals and it was a set road game seven against the defending champs. It was the team you were measured up against all year. But it did strike me as something that the Knicks m For everyone on the Knicks it's their first finals as well and they took it maybe because there wasn't the emotions of a game seven, maybe because it was they hadn't lost in a month and at the this going into that game it was a fade accompli. They were going to make the finals. The Knicks were very business like and understated in how they reacted to getting to the NBA Finals. And the spurs were overcome by emotion. Now that was Saturday night. The game is not until Wednesday. Mitch Johnson's a very good coach and Greg Popovich, you know, has coached what is it, seven, six NBA Finals. So he can help they can all get themselves back leveled and ready. But do I think and we'll get more into this later in the show it's on the board that they actually come out a little sapped of not only energy but emotion in the first game of these finals. I do. Do I think that the Spurs. I'll just get right into it here that the spurs going through that war and the Knicks having this path is a massive factor in why I believe the Knicks are going to win the championship. It is I think that the spurs having to use so much of their emotional and physical gas tank to get to this point where while the Knicks have just kicked it into fifth gear occasionally gotten a team down by 25 and thrown it back into third gear I think really does work well for him. So there's I I'm not. It is not a criticism like it is a problem or an indictment that Wimy felt that way and was that open about it. But it is a data point at. But now Ty I would like to get into the actual nitty gritty of games six and seven because we have not talked since game six since before game six. And going into game six I felt like the Thunder even with the injuries were in firm control of the series up three Two defending champs and Wimble in game five looked spent. But that game six terrified me if I were a Thunder fan because reminded me so much of the Timberwolves annihilating the Nuggets in Game 6 of the 2024 second round. Which then led to the Timberwolves going on the road and beating okay or beating Denver. So I was anxious going into game seven. What I did not see coming. And this is what I want your opinion on because this was the most stunning part of this entire series. I did not think it was going to be possible for Shay to play as well as he did in a game seven Wimby to be fine. That was a mediocre Wimy game. He's always impactful on defense, but 22 points I think was seven boards. Like he got in foul trouble. Wimy was just fine. And. The fact that those two things happened and the spurs controlled the game throughout because all of the spurs young guys and role players played well while the Thunder couldn't find anyone seemingly other than J Dub and Case and Wallace. That to me was the biggest shock of the series. Not that the spurs won it, but that they won it that in that fashion in that game seven.
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Ty Butler
And the only way that that is made possible is one scenario where Chet Holmgren has like the most pathetic performance we've ever seen from a star. And, and it's not just he played poorly. Right. It's the fact that Nick, he didn't even want the smoke with Wimy. Like that's to me what's disheartening. And, and I've heard you made the make this point about Luke Kenard who obviously he's better than Kernard, but follow me, you'd rather kernard go 3 for 11 than 1 for 4. Like you want to see the shot attempts there because you need to see him be aggressive. And the fact that Chet comes up and we can't call it the biggest game of his life because he just won a title, but it's still one of the biggest games of his life. No doubt he's at home in a Game 7 chance to get to the finals. Do something that we haven't seen since the 17 and 18 warriors and that's repeat or have a chance to do so. And you have zero shot attempts in the second half. So that's the only way that that's made possible.
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Nick Wright
Listen, it was. Everybody keeps saying zero in the second half, which is true. Chet took two of the Thunders first three shots. He had zero in the final 45 minutes. He took the first shot of the game and the third shot of the game and didn't take another one. Now this is what I will say and we'll talk more Chet when we talk OKC future in a bit. I do give Wimby a lot of credit for that. Not just because of his physical presence and his defense, but because of the psychological warfare element to it. Wimby got in Chat's head from the very beginning of this series and totally neutralized him. But it was, you're right Ty, that the Thunder J Dub was hurt and Chet was non existent and all of a sudden it's just Shay out there with a bunch of quality role players, but still role players. What was stunning to me though was that the all of all of the spurs role players were ready. Like I expected Castle to be ready. He's played for a national championship. He just seems like such a crazy competitor. Fine. Dylan Harper, when he's been healthy, this postseason's been excellent. I didn't think he was going to even though he's a rookie. I wouldn't have killed him if he was, you know, bad, but I thought he would be good. Kelton Johnson had done nothing all series. He was in the fourth quarter of a Game seven. He's hitting huge shots. Shots. Champagne was arguably their second best guy in this game behind Wimby. Vassell missed shots but was still active. Fox had his best game, you could argue since the ankle sprain. Remember the last time Fox was in a game 7? The only time he was in a game 7 they lost to the warriors in Was that in Sacramento? I think it was.
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Ty Butler
I think that was in Sacramento. Yeah.
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Nick Wright
Yeah. I think that that was the light.
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Ty Butler
I think they were the two seed. I think they might have been the two seed.
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Nick Wright
Two seed seems high for the Kings. I'm going to fact fact check Ty on that. There's no way the Kings have not been the two seeds since Chris Weber were there. I I have a hard time. Maybe you're right but I have a hard time believing the Kings got to the two seed. He could be correct the but regardless, the point is all of those guys stepped up. Yeah. This was for all of the bow at the altar of Sam Presti. Three seed. Wow, how embarrassing.
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Ty Butler
One off. Come on man.
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Nick Wright
But the for and Presti obviously is a brilliant GM and has done a great job the spurs roster building Champagne who they claimed off waivers. The hell Carter Bryant didn't you know he only played a couple minutes but he's a late first round rookie who was playing real. He was playing in the conference finals. Not late first round, mid first round. Pardon me. All those guys contributed in a road game seven. And that is what makes you so bullish on the spurs moving forward and for the Thunder man, tough night for Caruso to have his worst night. Dort was borderline unplayable all series. We, you know, Chet was a disaster. Hartenstein went from, oh my God, he's game one. It was like he, this isn't the series for him. Games two and three, they figured it out. You know, he vacillated game to game and we'll get to him in a bit. But credit to Shea for playing great, playing great without infuriating the opposing team's fan base and keeping his team in it before we get. Go ahead, go.
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Ty Butler
I was going to say. But that makes you more upset, right? Because it's like, dude, you are too great to, to reduce yourself to having to flop every time that you, you, you know, you're. You're in a spot where you need to score and he's on the floor all game. And so he was sensational. But it also makes me upset.
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Nick Wright
No. So there is. And I've referenced this tweet now a dozen times, but the Miles Brown tweet, M dot BROWN on Twitter when he was replying to someone who someone was accusing him of downplaying Chat's or Shay's greatness. And he was like, no, we all know he's great. And the comp he used was. He said, it's like Sherlock Holmes planting drugs on suspects. You don't need to do it. There is an element of the worse you are, the more accepting we are of the. Like, there is a level of if Gary Payton, dating myself here, did the Jose Alvarado hide in the backcourt steals thing, we'd be like, give me a break, man. But because for Alvarado, it's like, it's a key part of who he is. A lot of the best. Dort. I don't like the dirty stuff with Dort, the objectively dirty stuff. But some of the upper level physicality, it's like, okay, that's kind of all. That's the whole reason you have utility in this league. Shay doesn't need to do it, but we'll get more to the Thunder in a second. I know you have some follow ups here about the spurs and Wimby and Mitch Johnson so that we can get to all of them.
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Ty Butler
Are you over your concerns about Wimby's gas Tank, because, you know, that was an issue throughout the series. We know he goes from playing 28, 29 minutes a night during the regular season. Obviously that's not the case with you having to play every other day. So are you over that?
- [20:21]
Nick Wright
Not at all. Now, I don't think it'll be as big of a factor because the only every other day games are games one and two are every other day and games three and four are every other day. But between games two and three and then four, four and five, five and six and six and seven, they get two days off. But I still think the totality of minutes played and wear and tear on the spurs as a whole, it's not nothing. So like, just doing this off the the top of my head here. So if Wimby has played 32 and a half minutes a game and they've played 17 playoff games, so if it were 20, that would be 650. So he's played. What is it? What is that, 552 minutes in these playoffs, thereabouts. Castles played right around the same. Fox has played right around the same. Vesel's played right around the same. So all those guys are around 550 playoff minutes. Am I now? I'm gonna. Now I'm 1732. Should be right around 550. Let's find out together. 1732, 544. And it was 32 and a half. I nailed that. Great job, Nick. Great job. In fact, I said 55217 times 32 and a half. Let's just see real quick. 552 and a half. God, I am the great. All right, great job. So all those guys are right around 550 minutes. The Knicks, on the other hand, Brunson, they've all played 14 games. So three fewer games and well, oh, gee, five fewer games because of injury, obviously. Similar spot as Fox and Brunson's played 36 minutes a game. Towns, Bridges and Hart are all playing right, you know, in the low 30s. So we're talking, you know, just about a hundred minutes. Less. Less as far as playoff wear and tear. An extra week of rest. Yeah, that. That is something. And it also is something in this regard. I thought Wimby's exhaustion level and gas tank vacillated greatly game to game. And this was another reason I thought game six was potentially so damaging for the Thunder because Wendy only had to play 28 minutes because, like, he, you know, they. They blew him out so quickly and so decisively in that third quarter with the 200 run, he got to chill a bit. But I do think that'll be a factor. I do think Mitchell Robinson, even if he's in a cast, is going to use hard fouls on Wimby and make him work. And Cat is a load like Cat. Yes, Cat will be out at the three point line, but Cat also will bang with you. So I do think that is a factor here. Couple more questions before we get to the OKC side. Go ahead.
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Ty Butler
All right, so after the game, Wimby had this to say about what it's up to be an opponent like Oklahoma City. Here's the quote board. You got to use every single emotion in you in order to win. And sometimes these emotions is passion, love for the game, sometimes it's anger, sometimes it might even be jealousy. So can Wimy conjure up the same kind of passion and hatred for the finals or is this some type of emotional hangover that you expect to happen?
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Nick Wright
Well, I don't think he's. I think what he's going to have going for him in the finals is
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Ty Butler
that
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Nick Wright
he wants it so bad and this is, you know, he feels like this is his destiny. What I don't think he's going to have going for him is he seems to really hate Chet and they seem to really measure themselves against the Thunder. And so I think there will be a natural bit of a let down there now. Now maybe Pop is and Mitch Johnson are just going to show them videos repeatedly of the Knicks winning the NBA cup against them and they're going to generate similar, the same type of anger Wimy had during, you know, for chat for beating him in that international tournament. The other things I want to bring up here is quickly, I thought one of the Thunder's bigger mistakes was. And credit to the broadcast for pointing this out. When Wimby went back in the game with five fouls, they had to go right at him just to see. I don't think the refs were going to foul him out unless he clobbered a guy, but just see how Wimy reacts to going for blocks when, when I don't think he. They made him contest a single shot when he was in foul trouble and once he got to five foul. So I think that was a mistake. And the other piece of it is, I know there was a lot of commentary Ty, that the cornet block was the biggest play of the series. It was an unbelievable play and it might have been the biggest play of the game, but unquestionably and undeniably the biggest Play of the series was Wimby's three in game one. That put the Thunder on their back foot the entire time. I think if he misses that shot, the Thunder win the series flatly. I think if he misses that shot, it's on the board that the. Well, hold on, let me make sure I have this right. J Dub, his first game back was the. Okay, that was that game. So I was going to say maybe they don't rush Jada back, but he had played in that game and he played well. I just think, I think that shot was the pivot point of the series. And it's apropos that the biggest play of the series was the 7 foot 5 freak show hitting a 28 footer. Now, go ahead.
- [26:52]
Ty Butler
I was going to say the counter to that is they still went down 3, 2 in the series. Whereas Cornette's block, it's like me watching it, I felt like, all right, here's where the defending champs flex their muscle. They go on a run because San Antonio, it felt like they were watching the clock and they were getting a little antsy. And then that block kind of just resets the whole momentum of the game and in the series, listen, the.
- [27:17]
Nick Wright
It would have. It would have cut the game to four. The sneaky part about the Thunder having any chance of coming back that ended up being irrelevant because they never got it closer than six was they had no timeouts left.
- [27:34]
Ty Butler
Yeah.
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Nick Wright
So if they were at any point in one of those foul hit, a three, those situations, they weren't going to be able to advance the ball. They were. I think they were. I think the spurs were going to win even without the cornet block. But the cornet block followed by, if it was, I think was castle jumper kind of sealed it. All right, I want to get to the Thunder side of things and then we will get to the NFL trades. But first reminder, today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock bet. Florida's sportsbook. The NBA Finals are here, the lights are brighter, the pressure is higher, and every possession can define a legacy. New Will New York finally end its 53 year drought and bring a title to the Big Apple? Or will San Antonio's young superstar tip off the next great dynasty run? However you see it playing out, head over to Hard Rock BET and turn your picks into a payday. Because once the final buzzer sounds, that's it for hoops until next season. So shoot your shot while you can. Same game parlays are the best way to get in on the action. Big teams, superstars, and clutch performances. So many storylines to bet on, so why not stack them all into a same game parlay for a bigger payout? If you're ever late to tip off, don't worry. Hard Rock Bet lets you live bet all game long, from the first bucket to the final buzzer. Try your first bet on Hard Rock Bet today and you can score $150 in bonus bets. If you win, just place a $5 bet and if it hits, you get not only your winnings, but also an extra $150 in bonus bets. But the welcome offer is just the beginning. Hard Rock Bet has new promos daily, so open up the app right now to see what promo you've got today. Hard Rock Bet is Florida's only legal sportsbook, but you don't have to be in Florida to join the party. Hard Rock Bets live in Arizona, Ohio, New Jersey, Indiana, Tennessee, Virginia, Illinois, Colorado and Michigan, with more states on the way. Download the Hard Rock Bet app today and get the party started. Offered by the Seminole Tribe of Florida. Offered by Seminole Hard Rock Digital, LLC in all other states. Must be 21 plus and physically present in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee or Virginia. To play, terms and conditions apply. Concern about gambling in Florida, call 1833 play wise in Indiana, if you or somebody you know has a gambling problem wants help, call 1-800-9 with it. In Arizona, Ohio, Virginia, call 1-800- My reset gambling problem, call 1-800- Gambler number
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Podcast Promoter
one hits millions of records sold awards sold out tours. You think the Jonas Brothers are satisfied?
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Podcast Announcer
Nope.
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It's podcast time.
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Nick Wright
We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.
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Podcast Promoter
Hey, Jonas is available now and their first guest is a big one, Paul Rudd.
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Nick Wright
You know, Steve Carell is a great singer.
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Nick Jonas
Can he tell you not to audition the office or something? I told him, whoa. We were filming Anchorman.
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Nick Wright
Clearly, I was the idiot. Thank God he. He didn't listen to me, right?
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Podcast Promoter
Listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Isaiah Thomas
What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas and I'm C.J.
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C.J. Toledano
toledano. And our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds.
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Isaiah Thomas
Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luka and Austin Reed and finding ways
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C.J. Toledano
to win no matter what.
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Isaiah Thomas
He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before, and he knows without Luka and Austin Reaves I gotta manipulate the game.
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C.J. Toledano
We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs.
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Isaiah Thomas
I think Joker's gonna be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed, he has to guard Julius Randle and then he has to give us everything. He gives us on a night to night basis on offense.
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C.J. Toledano
And when it's friend sign like Quinton Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.
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Steve Nash (voice clip)
Steve Nash would get that thing, that man hell get the flying he running up the court licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like you go through a training camp with that. Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Oh yeah. Get your ass up and down the court and you gonna get the ball.
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C.J. Toledano
So listen to Point game on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Every story has a point where it's balanced on a knife's edge.
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That's where we begin.
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For some, it's a confron no parent ever expects.
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They finally admit we're here to take your children. The department has taken custody and we're here to take your kids. It was just shock and horror and desperation. For others, it's surviving the unthinkable as
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they're having this gun battle thousands of feet up in the air, many of the bullets start to puncture the aircraft. I thought we were gonna die then. The Knife is a podcast about real people whose lives were upended in an instant.
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We talked to the people who lived it, unpacking what happened, how they got through it and what came next.
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And on our off record episodes we go even deeper into the reporting and answer the questions you can't stop thinking about.
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- [32:44]
Nick Wright
A reminder to everybody like Rate, subscribe Review to the Pod. I was told that May was our most viewed month on YouTube ever. Sadly I think that's almost assuredly just because I was in a couple brief media beefs in May and the YouTube algorithm loves the media beefs. I'd loved. I'd love it if it were because of my cogent analysis, but I see the numbers and it turns out no people just click on Media Beefs but still subscribe to the Pod and Also check out Ty's pod, the Ty D. Butler show on YouTube and check out Tai on ESPN New York from 8am to noon every Sunday. Damanz will be back soon. We're giving him a few days off as he is work. You guys aren't going to believe the thing. Daman is coming down the pike. I'm so excited about it. I really am excited for you guys to see it. All right, Ty, let's discuss okc.
- [33:40]
Ty Butler
All right. So Oklahoma City, the dynasty derailed before he began. And it's funny, we do this every year, right? Team wins a championship and it's like, oh, no one's going to beat them. And then they don't make the finals. So for the Thunder, 71 and 14 against the rest of the league this year, 4 and 8 against the Spurs. And in the end of the year press conference here was sga.
- [34:01]
Nick Wright
It was a failure. Like I failed at my goal and I didn't achieve what I wanted to
- [34:06]
Damanze
achieve, But through my experiences I, I learned the most about myself and I make the, the like greatest amount of
- [34:23]
Nick Wright
increases I have in my, my career when I fail at my goal, don't get what I want.
- [34:29]
Damanze
And I look at this no different.
- [34:31]
Ty Butler
So he was awesome. I was going to te.
- [34:34]
Nick Wright
No, go, go, go, go.
- [34:35]
Ty Butler
He was, he was awesome in game seven. And I saw you say this was one of the best games he's ever played. But your reaction to this press conference and then I have some follow ups for you.
- [34:45]
Nick Wright
No. So I think it is fair to. And I tried to get into this with Danny on the TV show yesterday. He wasn't really that open to it. But I think we have a growing sample of evidence that. And we'll get into Shay specifically in a moment. I want to talk about the Thunder as a whole. That the Thunder are built to be an absolute undeniable regular season juggernaut that come the playoffs is a very good team, but nowhere near the all time legendary teams that they were being comped to. And that isn't because of some esoteric or intangible clutch gene bullshit. It is because when you think about how their roster is built, it makes sense that they would be better equipped to beat the hell out of people over the course of the slog of the 82 game regular season. And that their upside would be limited a bit once you get to high leverage playoff games. And here's why. The Thunder are the deepest team in the league. And the thing that makes the Thunder the most special is they seemed in player acquisition and player development to prioritize defense over offense. So over the course of a regular season, when you're not playing your stars huge minutes when it's their bench against your bench. They're going to win those minutes. And over the course of the regular season, when you look at the schedule and you might have a couple tankers coming up or you know, an offense only finesse team as your next game, there's an element of, you know, early in the second half of some regular season games against the Thunder, other teams are like screw this man. We're not. They are. They are at a level we don't, we either can't or don't care to get to tonight. It'll be easier than whatever next game we play. And so they roll through people. But then in the playoffs where how good your 10th, 11th and 12th men are matter the least, where nobody is just being like ah, this game's too hard. I, you know, we're, we're packing it in where everybody's defense steps up a bit. All of their edges are muted to a degree. And the reason I'm saying a growing sample size is two years ago the Thunder I think won 58 games. They were the number one seed and they got beat in six in round two by a totally incomplete built on the fly Mavs team that had a rookie starting at center. Luke and Shay are the same age. Yes, Kyrie is a veteran, but they did not come close to playing to their seed two years ago. Last year in route to winning the championship, they faced a seventh game in round two and then faced a seventh game and were trailing at halftime of game seven of the finals when after Halliburton had tore his Achilles. And now this year and last year they won 67 games and this year when they won 64, 65, whatever it was games they go to seven in round three and lose. They have not been a postseason juggernaut. They have been a regular season juggernaut and they won a championship and they deserved it. They earned the title. I'm not throwing any asterisk on the title. I'm not doing any of that. But
- [39:28]
Ty Butler
it,
- [39:30]
Nick Wright
I do think that just like we have had certain teams, the most famous probably was the latter stages of the Shaq, Kobe Lakers. I think another really good example is the 2018 warriors where at certain some great examples would be the LA, the 2016, certainly the 2017 cabs where you simply knew, yeah, I don't really care how they look in the regular season, they're going to jump a couple levels in the playoffs. I do think it is possible that the Thunder are a little bit of the inverse of that. Not like the, you know, Al Horford Hawks that won 60 games. Not like this year's Pistons. Not like some of those Lowry DeRozan Raptor teams where you just. Or the Donovan Rudy Gobert Jazz teams where it's like, no, they are frauds. Come the playoffs they're not going to be able to do it. Not, not, not to that level, but to where the historical comps of this is the, you know, these are the greatest teams in league history. And the Thunder alongside him. I just don't buy that. And Ty, you mentioned the dynasty stuff. Yeah, and that is. And what we didn't talk dynasty necessarily with the 21 bucks, the 23 nuggets. We did maybe a little bit with the 24 Celtics. Yeah, the 24 Celtics about whether it was possible. I do think it makes, just from a historical logic perspective, this Thunder team has so much more in common with the 21 Bucks or the 23 Nuggets than it does the dynasties of, you know, our lifetime. Which is they have one all time great player, not quite inner, inner circle hall of like top six, eight all time guy, but one of the 25 greatest players of all time as their lead guy. A nice roster around him that makes a ton of sense. But no other superstar on the roster. Just like the Nuggets didn't have another superstar. Just like the Bucks didn't have another superstar. And winning one championship's a hell of an accomplishment. And then you're going to fight tooth and nail to get back to another one. Those teams haven't. And I do not think it is a sure thing at all that the Thunder will before we get on to the SGA piece of it. You go ahead your thoughts on all that.
- [42:47]
Ty Butler
Just to defend Danny to an extent we're having a different conversation and I don't want to use injuries as an excuse because it happens every year, but we're having a totally different conversation if J Dub and Mitchell don't get hurt. And you agree because you picked OKC to win this series in seven. So if in this three year run it's one seed, one seed, one seed in their first year winning a championship. Yes, you need some pelts on the wall. So you go to seven with the best player in the league and then you win the finals in seven. But then the following year you beat a 62 win spurs team led by Wimy and then maybe the hottest team we've ever seen, you clip them in the finals. It's a different conversation for Oklahoma City.
- [43:29]
Nick Wright
Yeah, but I. So here's why I care less about the injury piece. Because if we're going to play the what if injury game, then yeah, you're right. Maybe if they are fully healthy, they win this series and maybe if we are removing injuries from the conversation, winning this series allows them to have a chance to win their first championship. Because last year in that Game 7 against the Nuggets, Aaron Gordon's walking around with an off the bone hamstring it looks like and obviously Halliburton tears his Achilles. So like there is the weekend. The point I'm making is this OKC team and during this three year run was the caliber of a one time champion and they won one championship. That feels about right. You like usually it works out about the way it's supposed to.
- [44:29]
Ty Butler
And
- [44:31]
Nick Wright
I, I don't think Shea is. And I know you don't Kobe Bryant and I don't care what. It's not that I don't care what the numbers are. It's that. Well, let's get into the Shay piece of it right now.
- [44:46]
Ty Butler
Okay, so he played his best game in game seven. Despite being largely underwhelming in the series. He drops 31 points a game in the regular season. But that dips to 24 in the Western Conference finals, which look for a lot of players a dip from regular season to post season. When you're playing tougher competition in the same team over and over, you know that tends to happen. But it to be that significant.
- [45:12]
Nick Wright
This was a significant dip and the efficiency fell off a cliff. He was 55% and then it was 37% going into game seven. But go ahead.
- [45:21]
Ty Butler
But you know, there were a lot of MJ comps throughout the regular season. Is it safe to say those are dead?
- [45:29]
Nick Wright
Oh, you listen. Yeah, I. People thought this was an insult where I said he's neck and neck with Dwyane Wade for like the eighth night. Best guard ever. That is not an insult. And again, I've done this before. I'll do it off the top of my head here. So fact check me. If I leave anybody out and you're gonna. You might get mad at the order. I actually know. I don't think you'll get mad at the order at all. For garbage.
- [45:54]
Ty Butler
Different order.
- [45:56]
Nick Wright
Yeah, but Michael, Magic, Kobe, Steph, this is where people might argue with me. It's fine. West, Isaiah, Oscar, that's seven. Wade, Shea. And then we can start having the Chris Paul, Bob Koozie, you know, or where some people would be like, where's Russell Westbrook? Where's James Harden? I would probably Bring up Jason. Kidding. You know, earlier than some of those guys. But there's. He is the two MVPs. By the way. The two MVPs didn't get Steve Nash in, in that list. And I named a bunch of guys. So it's the. But the multiple years of averaging 30, the crazy efficiency, the championship, the MVPs they put him in, you know, firmly in that guard top 10. But there is something to be said for the fact that in this series he wasn't getting all the calls he normally gets. And the efficiency fell off. In this series, Stefan Castle was not afraid that if I breathe on him, he's going to go to the line. And Stefan Castle is also an unbelievable defender. And Wimby's the best rim protector in the league. Get all of that. And his efficiency dropped 15 percentage points in this series going into game seven. He was having the third least efficient from a field goal percentage standpoint series by any reigning MVP ever, behind only Derrick Rose and Allen Iverson in series the year they won MVP. When those guys were even when they were winning MVPs, not very efficient players. And so it again, even the biggest Shay fans, if they get you gave him a polygraph, they, they didn't think he was actually closer to being Steph and Kobe than he was to being Kobe or I'm sorry, D. Wade and Chris Paul. Obviously Chris Paul's different player. I think they, I think deep down they knew it. And would you now see Kenny climb the mountain again? I don't think Ty, they can climb the mountain with the roster that they're going to have next year, which gets us to some of the offseason stuff. So let's go, let's go to it.
- [48:43]
Ty Butler
All right. So one of our favorite things to do is like NBA Twitter is to start firing off, you know, trade machines and you know, chat. He seems to have gotten the most blame. What does his future look like in Oklahoma City? Just got that massive extension. He's a former number two overall pick and just flatly didn't show up in that series. And so what do you think OKC future looks like?
- [49:06]
Nick Wright
So this is what I am very curious about. And I don't, I don't know what you do. First of all, let me say this on the front end, actually, I am confused about how the second apron works. Okay. I know when you're a second apron team, you can't aggregate, trade aggregate players in a trade. And I know that as presently constituted, the Thunder are going to be a second apron team. I also know that they are not actually going to be a second apron team because they have ple. They have team options for Hartenstein and Dort. So they will either move, trade those guys, or they will just not pick up the options. But I don't understand the mechanics of the order of these things. So I try to only ever propose trades that are actually allowable and make sense.
- [50:07]
Podcast Announcer
But.
- [50:07]
Nick Wright
But I can't fucking figure this out. I've tried. No one has done a good job. No, I shouldn't say no one's done a good job. I. It hasn't been able to be explained to me, so I don't totally understand. But let's just assume for the sake of this discussion that Presti is able to, with his, you know, that he can time things to where if there is a trade that makes sense for them, basketball wise, he'll be able to navigate the aprons. All right? Then the question becomes, do you run it back with this same squad minus at least one, if not two, key contributors? Because when people say run it back, Ty Hardenstein's going to be gone. The Thunder are not going to be the most expensive team in NBA history. Clay Bennett's not going to allow that. Dort, I thought was going to be gone, but then Tim McMahon reported, I think yesterday that Shea wants his Team Canada teammate back, even though he said he was going to leave it all up to Presti. So I thought do was going to be gone. I don't know. But there is no reason to me to think that. Simply run it back. Hope on health minus Hartenstein and Dort is the right approach. And the Chet piece is so unnerving because what if it just is a WIMBY problem? Yeah, yeah, that's. That's a big problem. Yeah, that is that, that the. The comp I used on the show yesterday, it wasn't a perfect one. Was if the early 2000s Pacers, when they were, you know, in those wars with Miami, if every time, if Paul George was like all NBA MVP candidate, awesome player, and then when he saw LeBron on the other side of the court, played the worst basketball of his career, you'd be like, well, then we're kind of screwed. Yeah.
- [52:29]
Ty Butler
I mean, it was like the Raptor, it's the Raptors as a team during those LeBron years. Right. It's not one player, it's the entire team.
- [52:35]
Nick Wright
That's a better example because Paul George did the opposite. He raised his game. The Raptor. Yes. And you know what the Raptors did? They traded away a lot of the team and, and LeBron also left the conference, which helped. But I don't know. There's no way. And it's. Chet was so good against every other team and was so good throughout the year. But would I strongly consider a Chat Giannis trade? Of course. I threw out there and people thought I was nuts. Seeing if you could, without giving up any draft picks, trade but have Chat be the centerpiece of a trade for Anthony Davis. I don't think that's crazy if the goal is to get through wimby. Now, I know Anthony Davis just got, you know, traded for $0.30 on the dollar, but I don't know what Chat's, you know, overall value is in the marketplace right now, but maybe in the east people will be like, he has immense value. Go ahead.
- [53:40]
Ty Butler
But think about that. It's that like if you're Oklahoma City, I would imagine you think, man, if we're healthy, we win this series. So now you go trade for Anthony Davis, who's never healthy. It doesn't really pass the make sense test.
- [53:53]
Nick Wright
No. And he's so much older and the injury concern. So I just don't think San Oklahoma City can flatly just be like, we're running it back, plus we're going to move up in the draft. And part of that is because I just don't think they have been. I don't think they are actually quite as good as their regular season record over the last few years suggests. All right, before we get to the finals, let me remind you guys, buying men's jewelry can be a nightmare. At least it used to be. Low quality junk. Walking through the mall. See one of those dumb kiosks, everybody's trying to hustle you or is insanely overpriced. Ridiculous markups. That's why we rock with gld. They've changed the game. You're getting quality pieces that are built to last without breaking the bank. And unlike a lot of other companies, GLD only uses real gold. None of the cheap stuff. Every stone is meticulously handset. Plus their proprietary production process. Make sure you're getting the highest quality jewelry possible. You can literally see and feel the difference. You know the feeling you get when you put on a new chain just hits different and elevates your whole fit. The confidence, the compliments, the way you carry yourself, all change instantly. And GLD has everything. Chains, pin rings, earrings, even fully iced out watches. Whatever your style, they've got you. And you don't have to. Just listen to me. Over 2 million customers and 50,000 5 star reviews back it up. Not to mention it's worn by some of the biggest names out there. Justin Bieber wears gld. Micah Parsons asap, Rocky a ton more. Best part, every single piece is guaranteed for life. It's literally built to last for the rest of your life. GLD has an official collab with the NFL so you can get every NFL team on a pendant this season. They also have official collabs with the NBA, wnba, mlb, ncaa, mls, and even DC Comics. Chains and pendants that let you rep what you love, work hard, change the game. For a limited time only new customers are getting an insane deal. Use code right wrig HD it's code right W R I G H t to get 50% off gld.com 50% off with code right@gld.com after you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Support our show and tell them we sent you number one hits.
- [56:29]
Podcast Promoter
Millions of records sold awards, sold out tours. You think the Jonas Brothers are satisfied?
- [56:34]
Podcast Announcer
Nope.
- [56:35]
Podcast Promoter
It's podcast time.
- [56:36]
Nick Wright
We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.
- [56:39]
Podcast Promoter
Hey Jonas is available now and their first guest is a big one, Paul Rudd.
- [56:43]
Nick Wright
You know Steve Carell is a great singer.
- [56:45]
Nick Jonas
Didn't he tell you not to audition at the office or something? I told him, whoa, we were filming Anchorman.
- [56:50]
Nick Wright
Clearly I was the idiot. Thank God he didn't listen to me, right?
- [56:53]
Podcast Promoter
Listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [56:59]
Isaiah Thomas
What's up fam? It's Isaiah Thomas and I'm C.J.
- [57:01]
C.J. Toledano
toledano. And our podcast point game is about defying the odds.
- [57:05]
Isaiah Thomas
Like LeBron heading into the playo without Luka and Austin Reed and finding ways
- [57:09]
C.J. Toledano
to win no matter what.
- [57:10]
Isaiah Thomas
He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before and he knows without Luka and Austin Reaves, I gotta manipulate the game.
- [57:20]
C.J. Toledano
We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs.
- [57:24]
Isaiah Thomas
I think Joker's gonna be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed, he has to guard Julius Randle, and then he has to give us everything. He gives us on a night to night basis on offense.
- [57:37]
C.J. Toledano
And when it's friends stop by like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.
- [57:42]
Steve Nash (voice clip)
Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the Court, licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like after you go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Oh yeah. Get your ass up and down the court and you gonna get the ball.
- [57:58]
C.J. Toledano
So listen to Point game on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [58:04]
Narrator (The Knife Podcast)
Every story has a point where it's balanced on a knife's edge.
- [58:07]
Podcast Announcer
That's where we begin.
- [58:09]
Narrator (The Knife Podcast)
For some, it's a confrontation no parent ever expects.
- [58:13]
Podcast Announcer
They finally admit we're here to take your children. The department has taken custody and we're here to take your kids. It was just shock and horror and desperation. For others, it's surviving the unthinkable as
- [58:26]
Narrator (The Knife Podcast)
they're having this gun battle. Thousands of feet up in the air, many of the bullets start to puncture the aircraft. I thought we were gonna die then. The Knife is a podcast about real people whose lives were upended in an instant.
- [58:40]
Podcast Announcer
We talk to the people who lived it, unpacking what happened, how they got through it and what came next.
- [58:46]
Narrator (The Knife Podcast)
And on our off record episodes, we go even deeper into the report recording and answer the questions you can't stop thinking about.
- [58:53]
Podcast Announcer
New episodes drop every Thursday on the Exactly Right Network and the iHeart Podcast Network.
- [58:58]
Narrator (The Knife Podcast)
Listen to the Knife on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [59:03]
Nick Wright
A reminder to everybody, like rate, subscribe, review and leave questions in the chat for Friday's mailbag episode. All right, Sorry Ty, I almost said used to saying all right, demonstration. All right, let's do finals narratives.
- [59:19]
Ty Butler
All right, so the NBA Finals set. You've got the Knicks and the spurs rematch of the 99 finals we talked about. It's also a rematch of the Cup. So many angles to it in your eyes. Like what's the most intriguing?
- [59:34]
Nick Wright
Well, I mean the obvious one is if Wimby wins the title, not only is he the best player in the league, but you do it is fair to say. Now listen, he's at mile marker 3 of a 26 mile marathon, but he is on the trajectory of not just one of but the greatest player of all time. He would, he would be outpacing Lebron and Jordan and he would be on equal pace as Kareem. Kareem won a title in league MVP and scoring title. All that in year two, but younger. So like further into his career but younger than Kareem. Those are three greatest players ever. So that, that is going to be what's hovering over the series from a narrative standpoint, the Flip side of what's hovering over the series from a narrative standpoint is if the Knicks win Jalen Brunson's place in NBA history among small guards, the only small guards that you can say unquestionably led a team to an NBA championship. I again, I'm be a little nerdy here. Bob Cousy. But again, Russell was there. But Russell was a rookie. Cousy was the MVP of the league. Bob Koozie was 6:1. And then it's Isaiah, Thomas and Steph. And that's it for small guys to lead a team to a championship. So. I don't know what you do with that piece of information, but that piece of information will be there. And again, some would say maybe Gus Williams, but I don't know that he was definitively the best player on the 79 Sonics. And so it's really the only guys who it's without a doubt are Stephen, Isaiah, best players on a champion as small guards. Brunson would join that list. And listen, Draymond's doubling down on this. Becky Hammond seemed to double down on this. Here's the question I would have for you quickly, ty on Brunson, if this is the circumstance you can have any player in the league, any player in the league gets dropped on your team and the circumstances are it's a playoff game tied going into the fourth quarter. How high does Brunson go in that draft?
- [62:44]
Ty Butler
Man, he has to be one at this point right now, granted, they've been blowing teams out and he hasn't played in any of the elimination game in the fourth quarters. But it has to be based on what we've seen him do, right?
- [62:56]
Nick Wright
It's. He's certainly. Listen, if somebody said Joker, if somebody said Luca, if, like there's it. It's not. If somebody said Wimby because of his impact on both sides. Those aren't bad answers. But if you say no, I'll take Jalen Brunson, it totally makes sense.
- [63:15]
Ty Butler
Well, because it's gotten to the point where when he has. When he takes a shot every time, you expect it to go like, you're shocked when it doesn't go in. And there's a. There's a lot of value in that, obviously.
- [63:29]
Nick Wright
And so here is the. So those are kind of the overarching narratives, right? The Brunson narrative and the Wimby narrative. The other things that to me are really fascinating is. And I understand why this is the feeling and this spurs team does feel different. I get all of that. But There will would be a school of thought of well if the spurs don't win this year, don't worry. They're going to have so many bites at the apple. Maybe yeah but it's not only that they're in the tougher conference. It's and I they're in at in a beneficial spot because so their three best players are all still on rookie deals and so they're not going to have to worry about apron stuff as soon as other teams will but we have I watched. I didn't watch. I was two years old but Akeem Olajuwon made the finals in his second year with the Rockets. Did not make it back for nearly a decade and in the middle of that time semi requested a trade kind of wanted out of Houston. Luca made the finals as a 24 year old fault never made it back with Dallas. Got traded. Braun made the finals at Wimby's age as a 22 year old. Oh, of course they'll be back. Did not make it back with that team for nearly a decade and left the team in the meantime D Wade made the finals and they won by the way in year two. D Wad that would have been no year three. Year three with the Heat. They bottomed out. Needed Braun to come there for them to get back up there. I It is. Yes, it is likely this is the first of many trips to the finals for Wimy. Yes, it is likely that these that all of those come with the spurs, but that shit is not a guarantee.
- [66:01]
Ty Butler
Yeah.
- [66:02]
Nick Wright
And you know the Thunder are going to. They're not going anywhere. Even if I'm not on as high in them as others. We'll see if Giannis lands on a different Western Conference team what that means. We'll see what moves the Lakers make. We'll see what moves the Timberwolves make like teams that are going to be in this mix and so I it's cliche. No time like the present. Yeah. Ty, I do want to ask you one question because I haven't dug into this. I see a lot of like, maybe it's the same stat popping up a bunch of times, but that OG was the most successful Wimby defender.
- [66:46]
Ty Butler
Yeah.
- [66:46]
Nick Wright
Okay, so you've seen that same thing.
- [66:49]
Ty Butler
Yeah.
- [66:49]
Nick Wright
Does that. Do you buy that like, is that a sample size thing? Is that do you think? Because when OG's guarding him they have another big out there that's kind of patrolling like what do you make of that?
- [67:02]
Ty Butler
I think it's a short sample size but I mean OG is Clearly I know he didn't get first team all NBA, which was a disaster in my opinion. But yeah, first team defensive, first team all NBA defense. But I think he will draw that assignment and do very well. Can I, can I just hit on one thing real quick that you mentioned about the guys who got to a finals early and then it took a while, man. None of them were 7 5. And so like you just don't know what the shelf life is for a guy that big. Because I watched the game. My, my pops is a Spurs fan. Every time Wimby falls on the ground, you're. You're anxious because like you don't know what limb is gonna. If he's gonna get up grimacing. And so when a guy at that size, we know league history tells us you, you, you tend to have shorter injury issue. Yeah. So you almost have to. And this is more of like a front office thing, like build your team differently because like every year is like our window is now.
- [68:00]
Nick Wright
So I listen. Nobody likes talking about that, but I and mate Wimby might break the mold in that regard too. But that, that, that exists as a concern in a way that it doesn't for Cooper flag in the Mavs. Mavs build. There's no, like, there's no, no question about that. So before we get to the NFL, you know what, I want to hear this actually before I give my pick Damanze again. He'll be back soon. He's off site on a project. I am curious what Damanze's pick for these NBA Finals is. Let's toss to it.
- [68:45]
Damanze
Hey, what's right, family. Sorry that I'm not there this week. I'll see you guys next week and hope to tell you guys all about the reason that I'm not there. But my final speak would have to be spurs and six. The Knicks have gone through the east, the spurs have gone to the West. I'm not saying that what the Knicks have done over there in the east is fake, but I do think that it's going to come to a somewhat of a halt when they meet the Spurs. I think that the spurs just have the formula to counteract what the Knicks are doing. Like they just play in this together brand of basketball. Everybody's hooping. But then you got the spurs and you got one through five and all of them guard. I just think that the spurs have the edge and they'll pull it out in six. Thanks.
- [69:31]
Nick Wright
So I think that is going to be the most popular pick. Spurs and six. And I understand Ty, the difference between playing the Cavs and playing the Thunder, I don't think that the. That the path to the finals overall path was playing the Timberwolves is certainly harder than who the the Knicks had in round two in the Sixers. There's no doubt about that. Round one. I actually think you could argue the Knicks had the tougher opponent in playing the Hawks versus playing God so long ago the Blazers with. So I get the path piece of it. But the spurs on their path lost one game in round one, two games in round two and. Right. They lost. It was.
- [70:32]
Ty Butler
Yeah, it was a Timberlake. Yeah, yeah.
- [70:35]
Nick Wright
And lost three games in round three. The Knicks haven't lost in more than a month. And every single game is a blowout. Even the game that went to overtime ended in a blowout. The Knicks are healthier. The Knicks are more rested. The Knicks. And when I say rested, I mean emotionally and physically. I think the Knicks steal game one and I think the Knicks win the series in six at MSG for what will be the single. If the Knicks are up three two going into game six. That might end up being the single most expensive forget NBA ticket sporting event ticket in in American history leading up to that point. I like the Knicks in six. I don't know if you've given your official prediction and you also don't have to do that here if you want to save it for your show.
- [71:35]
Ty Butler
Can I give you two concerns quickly about the Knicks? Why is there awesome. It's the first time they are on the road to start a playoff series. It's also the first time they enter a series where they don't have the best player. Now Jalen can end up outplaying Wimby, but I think we would all agree Wemby's the best player in this series. And so with home court, with the fact that you know they're coming off of that seven game series where like I know people question their experience. I think you get all the experience once you beat the Thunder in a game seven on their home floor and now you've got all of this momentum. The best player. I think the spurs win in seven. But by the way, Nick, when you pick a team to win in seven games, it really means. Have that much conviction.
- [72:17]
Podcast Announcer
Yeah.
- [72:17]
Nick Wright
No, it means you think it could go either way. Yeah, the. I just think the Knicks are. And we'll see how much the layoff hurt. And we will. Mitchell Robinson's wildly important in this series.
- [72:34]
Ty Butler
Yeah.
- [72:34]
Nick Wright
I'm assuming you'll still be able to rebound and Catch lobs, which he has to do. But if he. If, If. If he's not playable because of the hand injury, that, to me, could flip the whole thing, because I just think his 15 minutes a game can wear Wimby down to a degree. And I also think he is such an edge on the glass against Cornett. So we'll see how if he plays. But I. The Knicks in this spot. All right, before we get to the NFL, you ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rents going up? Streaming services going up? Your favorite burrito spots charging you extra for salsa? Not with Boost Mobile. With Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill don't have to play the will this go up soon? Game. Why? Because Boost Mobile has unlimited talk, text, and data plan at a price that'll never go up. In fact, it's the same price you pay for life. So switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up. Only at Boost Mobile, customers may. After 30 gigs, customers may experience lower speeds. Customers will pay 25 per month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.
- [73:43]
Nick Jonas
Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news.
- [73:45]
Ty Butler
What's the news?
- [73:46]
Nick Wright
Huge news.
- [73:47]
Nick Jonas
We created our own podcast called hey Jonas.
- [73:51]
Nick Wright
We invented a podcast. Podcast.
- [73:52]
Nick Jonas
Well, we didn't invent it.
- [73:53]
Nick Wright
We.
- [73:53]
Nick Jonas
We just contributed to it.
- [73:54]
Nick Wright
First people to do podcasts.
- [73:56]
Nick Jonas
Pretty. Yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts, but this one's extra special.
- [74:01]
Nick Wright
So how did we.
- [74:02]
Nick Jonas
How do we actually come up with the name hey Jonas? Guys, I honestly don't remember.
- [74:06]
Ty Butler
I think it was on a call
- [74:07]
Nick Wright
about what we should call it, and, well, we were thinking.
- [74:10]
Nick Jonas
I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing a
- [74:23]
Ty Butler
bit for the podcast where people could
- [74:25]
Nick Jonas
call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, hey, Jonas. And offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that. Guys, listen to hey Jonas on the
- [74:36]
Nick Wright
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [74:39]
Nick Jonas
Just listen.
- [74:40]
Ty Butler
We don't care where you hear it.
- [74:42]
Isaiah Thomas
What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas, and I'm C.J.
- [74:44]
C.J. Toledano
toledano. And our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds.
- [74:48]
Isaiah Thomas
Like LeBron. Head to the playoffs without Luka and
- [74:50]
C.J. Toledano
Austin Reed and finding ways to win no matter what.
- [74:53]
Isaiah Thomas
He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luka and Austin Reaves, I gotta manipulate the game.
- [75:03]
C.J. Toledano
We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs.
- [75:07]
Isaiah Thomas
I think Joker is gonna be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed, he has to guard Julius Randle and then he has to give us everything. He gives us on a night to night basis on offense.
- [75:20]
C.J. Toledano
And when it's friends stop by like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.
- [75:25]
Steve Nash (voice clip)
Steve Nash would get that thing, that man hell get the flying he running up the court licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like you go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Oh yeah. Get your ass up and down the court and you gonna get the the bone.
- [75:41]
C.J. Toledano
So listen to Point game on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [75:47]
Narrator (The Knife Podcast)
Every story has a point where it's balanced on a knife's edge.
- [75:50]
Podcast Announcer
That's where we begin.
- [75:51]
Narrator (The Knife Podcast)
For some it's a confrontation no parent ever expects.
- [75:56]
Podcast Announcer
They finally admit we're here to take your children. The department has taken custody and we're here to take your kids. It was just shock and horror and desperation. For others, it's surviving the unfortunate as
- [76:09]
Narrator (The Knife Podcast)
they're having this gun battle thousands of feet up in the air, many of the bullets start to puncture the aircraft. I thought we were going to die then. The Knife is a podcast about real people whose lives were upended in an instant.
- [76:23]
Podcast Announcer
We talked to the people who lived it, unpacking what happened, how they got through it and what came next.
- [76:29]
Narrator (The Knife Podcast)
And on our off record episodes we go even deeper into the reporting and answer the questions you can't stop thinking about.
- [76:36]
Podcast Announcer
New episodes drop every Thursday on the Exactly Right Network and the iHeart Podcast Network.
- [76:41]
Narrator (The Knife Podcast)
Listen to the Knife on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [76:46]
Nick Wright
All right, one of the biggest trades in recent NFL history happened yesterday. Let's get into it.
- [76:52]
Ty Butler
All right, so the Rams trade for Miles Garrett. They acquire him from Cleveland for Jared verse, young stud, a 27 first round pick, a 28 second rounder and a 29 third rounder. The Rams now plus 600 to win the super bowl ahead of both Buffalo and Baltimore who are tied at plus a thousand big fans of First Things first know this term S Bob is anything short of a Super Bowl. A complete and utter failure for the Los Angeles.
- [77:20]
Nick Wright
Listen, I think that the NFL's so weird because, yeah, like, wow, look at what huge favorites they are. There's plus 600, which means the implied probability of that is like, they have about a 15% chance of winning the Super Bowl. So it is. Now, obviously they did this because they thought they were good enough last year if they had better pass defense, they lost in the NFC Championship Game and they're trying to maximize Matt Stafford's window. I don't think you can say it's a fail, complete and utter failure definitively if they don't win the Super Bowl. Trading for Miles Garrett, that is, until you tell me what type of run Miles Garrett's going to have in Los Angeles. If Miles Garrett, who's 30, plays another seven years and has, you know, another four All Pro years and at least five excellent years, then you roll the dice that at some point your team's good enough and you'll win the Super Bowl. I will say, however, oddly. I don't know if it's oddly or not. If they don't win the super bowl this year or I suppose next year with Stafford. The only way this isn't a, I don't want to say failure, but a trade they regret is if Ty Simpson ends up being the right guy. So I do think that they pretty clearly Ty knew they might be making this trade when they drafted Ty Simpson, and that's one of the reasons they did draft Ty Simpson was because they knew they wouldn't have draft picks in the future. But here is where I think after 24 hours of marinating on it, I've landed. I really do like this move for both teams. I do think the Rams become the definitive, certainly nfc, if not just overall super bowl favorites. I also, however, think this. There is close to a 0% chance Cleveland regrets this trade. They weren't going anywhere anytime soon. It helps them clean up their books versus excellent. And they got a first, a second and a third. Now you want to hit on the picks, but you want to hit on the picks no matter how you get them. I think for Cleveland, this trade definitely is a smart one. I think they got 120 cents on the dollar because what do you think verse is worth on the open market? A first and a second at least. Like a pass rusher that good at his age. Like maybe two firsts. So you got the equivalent of, let's call it two first, two seconds and a third for Miles Garrett. That's like quarterback compensation. That's fine. So I don't see Ty a scenario where The Browns regret this. I do see a scenario where the Rams regret it. It's not the likely scenario, but if one team regrets it, it's the Browns. I'm sorry, it's the Rams. And the other piece of this is, man, oh, man, Ty, they better be certain that Miles Garrett wants to play for a long, long time, that he's not like, okay, a couple more years. Now, if they win a Super bowl in those couple years, they'd be fine with it. Yeah, but that's the, the, it is a risky trade for the Rams, but a risk I like them taking. And talk about going from past defense being a problem to trade for McDuffie, trade for Jalen Watson or, sorry, sign Jalen Watson, trade for Miles Garrett. Now we would expect them to have one of the toughest pass defenses in the whole league.
- [81:22]
Ty Butler
Speaking of, you know, improving their defense, is there a world where you see Aaron Donald decide he's going to lace him up again?
- [81:29]
Nick Wright
You know, I, I saw that kicked around yesterday. I. Aaron Donald has missed how many years? Aaron Donald. So he's been retired for the last two years. So he retired in 23. I don't, I don't think a D tackle who's missed two years and is now 35 is coming out of retirement. He's one of the greatest players ever. I just don't, I don't think that is a likely outcome. I do want to say, I do want to add one other thing on this, though, and this is where if you're a football fan, it's just exciting. We've never seen Miles Garrett play for a team that consistently was leading. He got 23 sacks on a terrible team that, you know, he didn't, he did not get in the reason that matters. It's obvious he just didn't get a ton as many pass rush opportunities as you think of. Like Freeney and Mathis playing with Peyton, where the team's always ahead. Like, I don't know what the upper bound of Miles Garrett sacks can be. We saw 23 last year. I'm curious about that. All right, let's quickly do the Pats and AJ Brown and then get out of here.
- [82:55]
Ty Butler
All right, so the pats trade for A.J. brown, which comes as no shock to anyone from the Eagles. They get or they, they give out a 28 first round pick, a 27 fifth Drake May gets his star wide receiver and Brown is reunited with his head coach from Tennessee and Mike Grable. So your thoughts on this trade? Can I just throw this in real quick to Your analysis? I, Josh Allen, Steph Diggs, like at some point, that star wide receiver, quarterback, as we saw in Philly, he wants the ball so Drake may throw goes from being in a situation where he can spread around the field to now, you know, A.J. brown's going to want the rock. And so what do you think about all of that?
- [83:34]
Nick Wright
Well, so the other element of Josh Allen, Steph Diggs is when he first got there, it helped Josh get to another level. And so I listen, I think this is smart for the Patriots. It's not low risk, but it's medium risk. It's a future. You know, a first two years down the road. They, they operated their entire off season as if they knew they were getting him because evidently they knew they were getting him. I still think the Pats, because of the schedule, because of some of the weaknesses, may display in the playoffs, take a significant step back next year. But they needed more weapons on the outside, and now they have a legitimate number one receiver, 29 years old. I don't think it's long, long term, but I, I, I think it's a smart move by New England. It's also. Go ahead. No go.
- [84:28]
Ty Butler
No, no, go ahead. I was going to say, what's his stat line going to look like for the Pats?
- [84:33]
Nick Wright
I mean, I don't think he's going to be top two in MVP. Oh, oh, you're talking about A.J. brown. Because I was going to say I don't think Drake's going to be top two and MVP again. So last year he had 121 targets, 78 catches for a thousand yards. The year before, he had 97 targets, 67 catches for 1079 yards. And the two years prior to that, he had 150ish targets and nearly 1500 yards a season. I'm going to say similar to last year, but with more yards around 120 targets, around 80 catches, but instead of a thousand yards closer to 1200 yards. And you know, he lives in the 7, 8 touchdown range somewhere like that. So I think you'll be really good. I am most interested in, I think the Eagles are the most interesting team in the league next year. I said it before, I'll say it again. I think they could. They are the only team in the league that if you gave me the right odds, I would bet on them to have the best record in football. And if you gave me the right odds, I would bet on them to finish below.500. Like I think 7 and 10 is possible. And I think 14 and 3 is possible. You think that's crazy?
- [85:51]
Ty Butler
No, I think it's hilarious. And I never thought of it that way, but they are like an every other year kind of team, so I guess you'd bet on them to, you know, excel this year.
- [86:01]
Nick Wright
But it. It is. The other thing that I'm curious about with the Eagles is the reason A.J. brown remained popular with the other players is because they agreed with him. And now that he's gone, does is someone else, like, are we going to hear different chirping since AJ's not there to do that, or is it going to be, you know, all copacetic? I don't know. But it was very clear the way the Eagles handled their off season. They knew A.J. brown wasn't going to be there. They now, you know, Devonte Smith's excellent. They drafted Makai Lemon, they signed and traded for other kind of third and fourth receivers. But a lot, a lot of additional pressure now falls on the shoulders of Jalen Hurts. But we all knew this trade was coming. All right, Ty, that's a wrap. I hope you had fun. You did great.
- [86:56]
Ty Butler
Fantastic. That was great, man.
- [86:59]
Nick Wright
Again, if you're in New York or I'm sure, where can people stream the Sunday show? Ty?
- [87:05]
Ty Butler
Oh, it's ESPN New York app.
- [87:07]
Nick Wright
Okay. All right, there you go. So 8 to noon on Sundays, you can hear Ty on ESPN New York. You can follow him on Twitter and IG @TY D. Butler. You. Lastly, again, it's. Is it the Ty Butler or Ty D. Butler show on Ty Butler Show? The Ty Butler show on YouTube. He does it every day, so check him out there. Damanze will be back soon. Very excited for you guys to see what he's working on. Huge thank you to gld to Hard Rock and the Boost and to always to the volume and the Blue Duck. Thank you to Ty. I'm on with Colin in about an hour. First things first at three and the opening of Club Superstar version 5.0 at four o'. Clock. See you guys then. Watch. Right.
- [87:54]
Ty Butler
Hey, guys, it's us, the Jonas Brothers.
- [87:56]
Nick Jonas
I'm Joe.
- [87:56]
Nick Wright
I'm Kevin.
- [87:57]
Nick Jonas
And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called hey Jonas.
- [88:02]
Nick Wright
We invented a podcast.
- [88:03]
Nick Jonas
Well, we didn't invent it.
- [88:04]
Nick Wright
We.
- [88:04]
Nick Jonas
We just contributed to it.
- [88:05]
Nick Wright
First people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.
- [88:11]
Nick Jonas
Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.
- [88:15]
Nick Wright
Listen to hey Jonas on the Iheartradio
- [88:17]
Ty Butler
app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.
- [88:22]
Podcast Announcer
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.